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US are Collateral Murderers in Iraq … and they wouldn’t do that in Pakistan, will they?

Yesterday [April 5th 2010] WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad — including two Reuters news staff.

The video, shot from an Apache helicopter, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded, left to be taken to a local hospital

YouTube Preview Image

One of the helicopter crew is then heard saying that one of the group is shooting shooting back. But the video shows there is no shooting or even pointing of weapons. The men are standing around, apparently unperturbed. The lead helicopter, using the moniker Crazyhorse, opens fire. “Hahaha. I hit ‘em,” shouts one of the American crew. Another responds a little later: “Oh yeah, look at those dead bastards.” The ruthless murders then open fire on a van that drives up to pick up a wounded. [Transcript]

It seems Wikileaks as more videos, even from a May 2009 attack in western Afghanistan which killed over 100 civilians, including many women and children, through bombs. The U.S. Military has said it would release the video, but it has not, and most likely it might not

Words cannot covey the utter shock I am in having watched this murder, I then shudder to think that if these were the loose knit rules of engagement in Iraq during the American invasion, then I can easily speculate what might be going on within our own border where these gun-totting trigger-happy American soldiers have been let loose to target and engage at their won free will.

Most of the targeting in Pakistan is done remotely, one then has to wonder, if these soldiers mistook a ‘camera’ as an AK-47 and an PRG, while hovering right above in an Apache, how accurate their targeting be sitting remotely in a bunker in Washington target practicing via satellites. I can almost bet these drones must be dead blind as bat, killing mostly innocent people, and occasionally getting lucky at killing a militant.

Rightfully then I must ask, with such a hideous track record, what assurance do we have that they wouldn’t do that in Pakistan….. Its time to convince our own government to stop these criminals from destroying our country even further. The American are as good as the terrorists who blow themselves up against this American hegemony. When do we say stop !!!!


57 Comments

  • Observer |

    "Words cannot covey the utter shock I am in having watched this murder, I then shudder to think that if these were the loose knit rules of engagement in Iraq during the American invasion, then I can easily speculate what might be going on within our own border where these gun-totting trigger-happy American soldiers have been let loose to target and engage at their won free will."

    I have seen many cruel videos, but this one is a special one. I was shocked to witness such cold blooded murder of civilians. We need to realise that Americans are NOT our friends. I am not saying we should engage them in battle right away, but we MUST send clear signals that enough is enough. They have been engaged in numerous incidents where they have been trigger happy and not shown any kind of mercy on plain civilians.

    For Gods sake; wake up Pakistan!!!

    • dr jawwad khan |

      @observer!

      to whome are you talking?

      we know the response of liberals. they will defend this barbaric act no matter how clear and concrete you present.

  • Observer |

    @Jawwad

    I know :-(

    Maybe I am expecting too much, but you know the Almighty says….La taknatu-min-rahmatallah.

    I know all odds are against me/us, but I refuse to give up.

  • Aamir Mughal |

    US are Collateral Murderers in Iraq … and they wouldn’t do that in Pakistan, will they? Posted by Teeth Maestro April 6, 2010 [teeth maestro]

    =====================

    They have been actively doing this since the start of War On Terror: Contractors Tied to Effort to Track and Kill Militants By DEXTER FILKINS and MARK MAZZETTI Published: March 14, 2010 A version of this article appeared in print on March 15, 2010, on page A1 of the New York edition. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/15/world/asia/15co… REFERENCE: Outsourcing intelligence By David Ignatius Wednesday, March 17, 2010 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/arti

  • Aamir Mughal |

    US are Collateral Murderers in Iraq … and they wouldn’t do that in Pakistan, will they? Posted by Teeth Maestro April 6, 2010 [teeth maestro]

    =========================

    Not only in Iraq but all over the place: Seymour Hersh, Dick Cheney & Secret Assassination Wing http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/05/seymor-h

    Watch the Interview in the links above

  • Asim Jaan |

    Hi Awab,

    I wrote this note on facebook after reading your report on your meeting with Farah Pandith.

    http://teeth.com.pk/blog/2010/02/17/farah-pandith

    In it i analyze why our liberals get in shock ONLY when some thing about Imperialist brutality is leaked post facto. And what are the reasons for their ambivalence ?

    ——————————————————

    REASONS FOR THE VACILLATIONS OF PAKISTANI LIBERALS

    Monday, February 22, 2010

    -Asim Jaan

    http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/note.php?note

    Here I am attempting to tackle the reasons for our Liberals' vague attitude in the face of Imperialistic inroads in Iraq and Afghanistan, and now increasingly Pakistan, that are wreaking havoc in the social/political and economic fabrics of these societies.

    I am confining my analysis to Pakistan's liberals but, in my view, the results are applicable to liberal intelligentsia elsewhere, in Muslim world and those in Western countries.

    Liberals are confused in their response because fundamentally they are pro-capitalist, in the sense that they equate 'progress' with 'capitalism' as they don't think there is any alternative to free market. They think profit motive is the only way to make the mare go. And that, as a result of the pursuit of profit, innovation takes place, entrepreneurs grow rich and, in the long run, their wealth trickles down to the multitude also.

    Because of this, in today’s situation, they are find themselves in a catch 22 situation – b/w the rock and the deep sea. That is, they idealize free market capitalism and its accompanying paraphernalia – superstructure (parliamentary version of democracy, liberal concept of human rights) etc etc.

    But the realities of capitalism, which are stark, hit them in the face:

    – Imperialistic invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan approved by those very 'democratically elected' parliaments (their ideal) (1),

    – Total disregard for human life. Indiscriminate killings of women, children and non combatants using the most sophisticated weapons and justifying this as collateral damage.

    – Kidnapping of civilians, their tortures (in contravention of their own liberal concept of human rights) to which these very parliaments turn a blind eye.

    – Neo-liberal economic policies pushed by IFI (Financial arms of the world capitalism) in developing countries that force them towards opening their fragile markets, privatize their utilities, decrease their development budgets – all resulting in making the already poor, poorer, while ensuring profits of multinational companies from the capitalist world.

    – The so called free media working full time as propaganda arm of ruling classes in all countries.

    – Wealth instead of trickling down, is galloping upwards. Real wages are decreasing, even in developed countries.

    All these cruelties are being carried out by their ideals – free market economics, and democratically elected governments.

    Thus they are in a fix – they support US invasions justifying it as legitimate wars against un-democratic Taliban, autocratic Saddam regime, but then (like Asma Jehangir of the HRCP) seems shocked by the excesses of those very military operations. The most they could do is say “ Maaro, magar ahtiyaat say”.

    The point i want to underscore is that liberals' vacillations are a direct result of their unclear position (and in effect consent) to capitalism.

    This is the root cause. Hence we need to emphasize that we cannot side step the issue that free market economics do not provide any solution to mankind's needs. Imperialism is a direct consequence of capitalism. You cannot have one and avoid the other.

    Only socialistic control of resources by the working class, where capital is used to satisfy human needs and not geared towards profits, is the way out.

    ————————————————————

    (1)- Aijaz Ahmed 'Islam, Islamisms and the West' in Socialist Register, 2008.

    " Cumulatively, over the period of the period of pre-invasion 'sanctions' and during the occupation, close to a tenth of the Iraqi population is estimated to have died; and even larger number have become refugees, either inside the country or outside. …………

    As the invasion of Iraq was being prepared, some intellectuals who had been prominent on the left put forth a remarkable argument: since Saddam was as ferocious dictator, a latter-day Hitler of sorts and since the West was manifestly liberal-democratic, the latter had the right to make war in order to overthrow the former and to liberate Iraq for liberal democracy;…… In this argument, there was no room for all the historical evidence that the United States had never invaded any Third World country in pursuit of peace and justice but always for the opposite reasons. ……

    Now, after the actual experience, there still appear to be people on the left who contrive to believe that elections held under the guns of the occupation army, on the basis of sectarian and ethnic electoral lists, under a constitution written by the Americans, are an advance towards democracy, and that the government that has ensured is a legitimate government."

  • Talkhaba |

    @ Teeth Maestro

    Excellent assessment. The last four paras prescribe the best remedy for this menace of terrorism. The last sentence is heavier than million words. The message is clear. The US should stop terrorism.

  • Aamir Mughal |

    Rightfully then I must ask, with such a hideous track record, what assurance do we have that they wouldn’t do that in Pakistan…..The American are as good as the terrorists who blow themselves up against this American hegemony. When do we say stop !!!![Teeth Maestro]

    ==================

    The Getaway Questions surround a secret Pakistani airlift. by Seymour M. Hersh January 28, 2002 http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2002/01/28/02012
    In interviews, however, American intelligence officials and high-ranking military officers said that Pakistanis were indeed flown to safety, in a series of nighttime airlifts that were approved by the Bush Administration. The Americans also said that what was supposed to be a limited evacuation apparently slipped out of control, and, as an unintended consequence, an unknown number of Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters managed to join in the exodus. “Dirt got through the screen,” a senior intelligence official told me. Last week, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld did not respond to a request for comment. Musharraf won American support for the airlift by warning that the humiliation of losing hundreds—and perhaps thousands—of Pakistani Army men and intelligence operatives would jeopardize his political survival.

  • Aamir Mughal |

    I then shudder to think that if these were the loose knit rules of engagement in Iraq during the American invasion [Teeth Maestro]

    =======================

    Dear Awab Sb,

    Isn't this shudder yours strange because CIA's gloves were off after so many years due to several Congressional Hearings and Senate Appropriation Committee's Report: Gloves are off as Bush scraps ban on assassination By Toby Harnden in Washington Published: 12:01AM BST 22 Oct 2001
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northam

  • Aamir Mughal |

    Washington Post, an intelligence order signed by Mr Bush last month directed the CIA to undertake its most sweeping and lethal covert action since the agency was founded in 1947.

    "QUOTE"

    CIA Told to Do 'Whatever Necessary' to Kill Bin Laden

    Agency and Military Collaborating at 'Unprecedented' Level; Cheney Says War Against Terror 'May Never End' By Bob Woodward Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, October 21, 2001; Page A01 http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A27452-2

    "UNQUOTE"

  • Aamir Mughal |

    I then shudder to think that if these were the loose knit rules of engagement in Iraq during the American invasion [Teeth Maestro]

    =================

    Profile: Cofer Black
    http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=c

    Positions that Cofer Black has held:

    Head of the CIA Counterterrorist Center

    Related Entities:

    Acquaintance of Rich B.

    Leader of Counterterrorist Center

    Acquaintance of George J. Tenet

    Acquaintance of Erik Prince

  • Aamir Mughal |

    How CIA and other such outfits work?

    They create Pseudo Anti US Factions [and those who are in those Factions don't know that they are created by whom] and these factions target strategic targets assuming that they are attacking Pro US Elements and in doing so they often hit non-combatants who are bystanders. Through this the Intelligence community [the handlers of such Anti US Factions] hit not one but many targets and achieve desired results. During Afghan War, the CIA AND FBI used to assist Pakistani Apparatus within the major cities of Pakistan to counter KGB and that's how they know Pakistan like the back of their hands. This Documentary will help: The Obama Deception HQ Full length version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

  • Aamir Mughal |

    How CIA and Secret Service Work – 2

    Jundullah and Abdulmalik Rigi was the Creation of US CIA and during Musharraf’s Tenure, read the rest as to how both were being used to destabilize Iran to create Iran-Pak Tension to create hurdle in Iran-Pak-India Gas Pipeline….details….

    The Iran Plans by Seymour M. Hersh The Iran Plans
    http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/06/iran-pla

    The Coming Wars by Seymour M. Hersh – What the Pentagon can now do in secret. http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/06/coming-w

    • Nazia |

      Who were front men in this game?

      I cant give you link but I can assure you that billion rupees commission has been transferred on Iran Pak gas deals.You can judge that its MD Rasheed loon has got 5 times extension just because of this deal.

      Rigi has Pakistani ID card via nadra .

      So aunty Nadra grills normal Pakistani to the level of extreme irritating in lengthy procedures but How all things by passed when Rigi like people goes to this procedure .

      '

  • Aamir Mughal |

    loose knit rules of engagement in Iraq during the American invasion [Teeth Maestro]

    =========================

    Vietnam War didn't stop because of Jane Fonda's or Beatles Anti War Rallies but due to Business and Commercial Interests which paved the way for stopping the War and one of the trick are embarrassing leaks: Carl Levin, Lies, Seymour M Hersh & My Lai Massacre http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/05/carl-lev

  • Nadir El Edroos |

    While I enjoy a good piece of US bashing, there is no doubting that US actions in Iraq or Afghanistan etc are far from desirable. The killing of innocents cannot or should not be tolerated. Likewise drone attacks its legality and desirability are questionable.

    However, I wish we could also question our government, military and security services with the same degree of critical analysis that we pay to the actions of foreign actors.

    1) Drone attacks are neither legal nor desirable, we are all quick to blame the US, however given its tacit approval by the government and military officials of Pakistan, should they not share the blame?

    2) The videos that came out of Swat of Army jawans beating up villagers, whether they were fake or not, I dont know, but the fact that the PTA blocked its youtube link, the Pakistani media remained silent and DG ISPR told foreign journalists that an inquiry will be made, points to several question marks. If excesses were not committed why all the defensive behaviour?

    3) Actions of the Pakistani military in East Pakistan are conveniently committed from history books in Pakistan. Denying what happened dosnt erase the past. The fact that they the Hamood ur Rahman Commission report was only declassified in December 2000 and even then little has been done in the aftermath of the report dosnt say much of our own ability to hold those who kill civilians accountable.

    • Aamir Mughal |

      Nadir El Edroos says: – April 7, 2010 at 2:13 am – While I enjoy a good piece of US bashing,

      =====================

      Dear Sir,

      This is not called US Bashing rather it is plain history and US Sources are quoted above even their own released Govt. Documents are corroborating what we call "US Bashing" read more: COINTELPRO is an acronym for a series of FBI counterintelligence programs designed to neutralize political dissidents. Although covert operations have been employed throughout FBI history, the formal COINTELPRO's of 1956-1971 were broadly targeted against radical political organizations. http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/cointel….

      Pakistani Apparatus is trained under this program [General Zia is included]

  • Nadir El Edroos |

    yes so as you have said, it dosnt matter who commits the crime, while we are not going to change US actions – we can however hope that our government, military and security apparatus can hold themselves up to a higher standard.

    As you point out, "their own government documents". Atleast when their government documents come out, people across the US poor scourn over it and demand action and justice. When someone in Pakistan demands that the military or security agencies be held accountable to their actions, they are called traitors.

    Listing out US actions is all well and good, neither does anyone deny US excesses. All I am saying is that we should perhaps also turn so much attention to look at what our own government, military and security forces do as well.

    • Al |

      Totally agreed that we should look at ourselves as well & the excesses that our military commits. A crime is a crime regardless of who commits it.

      But what do you mean //While I enjoy a good piece of US bashing, there is no doubting that US actions in Iraq or Afghanistan etc are far from desirable.//??

      More desirable then what? The invasions of both countries are illegal. Period.

      And i totally disagree with you over here //At least when their government documents come out, people across the US poor scourn over it and demand action and justice.//

      No one has the time to go through thousands and thousands of pages of government documents to look for what their government has done wrong. Those that do however, never get the media coverage & after 25-30 years not many people are that much interested in the events either.

      No one in the US who matters has ever paid for any crimes that they have committed. Sure some low ranking soldiers might get court martialed if some excesses happen to find their way into the media but the real criminals never pay. And by real criminals i mean the US administration & the senators who authorize these illegal wars.

  • Maher Elahi |

    Teeth Mastearo, it were Americans who have made possible for you to watch a video showing the gress brutalities committed by some of their own. The reason being that few nut cases sometime do horrible things and are needed to be exposed and brought to book even when the foggy environmnts of armed conflict prevail.

    Have you ever watched the large scale killings by Sadam of Iranians and gassing of Kurds? The answer is no, as he or none of his men attached any value to the loss of human lives.

    War is messy, brutal and horrendous, but sometimes it is necessery as a lesser evil. Do'nt you think it was necessery to bomb and militiarily pressurize Sarbia to stop atrocities in Bosnia, Kasavo and coratia?

    Although invasion of Iraq was unjustified,yet the rooting out the yahoos of Afghanistan, the uncouth barbarians of dark ages could be termed essential and called for. You decry the presence of America, which is here just for cleansing these territories. From Iraq they will be winding up during this year and from Afghanistan they will

    start leaving from the July 2011.

    Certainly they will be available to support and assist in improving the social and economic conditions, so that whining as per past is not done by Pakistanis and Afghanis

    that America left them uncared for and unprovided.

    • Al |

      @Maher: So what we should be thankful to the Americans for killing innocent people & letting us watch it on video?

      How much brainwashed can a person be. You are no different then the brainwashed teenagers who blow themselves up thinking that they are going straight to paradise.

      No one has given America any right to attack any country regardless of how brutal, repressive the government of that country is. It has arrogated this right to itself. Saddam was a terrible leader but when he was massacring the Kurds & fighting the Iranians, US was the country in the lead supplying him with weapons both conventional & biological.

      Even after the first gulf war, the US & UK held full control of Iraqi airspace & no planes could fly without their permission. However, they again allowed Saddam Hussain to carry out aerial bombardments against the Kurds who had stood up against his regime. These Kurds had stood up on the prodding of the US but the US did not want a revolutionary overthrow of the regime. It preferred an internal coup against Saddam Hussain with the regime in place. So when that possibility did not appear it allowed Saddam Hussain to brutally suppress the rebellion.

      And despite how repressive the Taliban might have been, the US has no right to attack their country.

      In all this propaganda you seem to have forgotten what the real reasons for the Afghanistan invasion were. Not because Taliban were a brutal regime but because they were harboring Osama Bin Laden whom the US wanted for 9/11. The Taliban for their part demanded proof from the US for Bin Laden's involvement in 9/11 & were willing to hand him over to Saudi Arabia or some other neutral country.

      Now you seem to be an avid watcher of Fox News but would the US hand over any of its citizen to say Afghanistan or Pakistan if it demanded it hand him/her over without any proof? The answer is obviously NO but of course you will never realize the absurdity of the US position.

      And to top it off what to talk of the absurdity of launching an invasion half way across the world on an entire country just to capture a few individuals. There must have been a thousand and one ways the US could have gotten hold of Bin Laden & his associates if that was its real aim in the first place.

      So if you are really that naive to think that the US is in Iraq & Afghanistan for some humanitarian reasons than you need to wake up & open your eyes.

      I think you should definitely read 'Perilous Power'. It is a book on US Foreign Policy & the wars in Afghanistan & Iraq. Here is the link:

      http://www.amazon.com/Perilous-Power-Foreign-Dial

  • Qaimkhani |

    Maher,

    War is messy, brutal and horrendous, but sometimes it is necessery as a lesser evil

    May Allah make such a war to cleanse the earth from people like you and your masters. AMEEEEN, then you should recall your own words…..War is messy, brutal and horrendous, but sometimes it is necessery as a lesser evil

    AMEEEEEN.

    • Observer |

      Ameen…It is always different when creatures like Maher Elahi are attacked likewise.

    • Maher Elahi |

      Qaimkhani,Dr, Jawad & Observer, There is a saying in Panjabi wich translates that bulls do not perish to satisfy the wishes of crows.

      Come out from the delusional state of minds and take cognizance of the objective conditions leading to the survival of those who are either fittest or allied to them in one way or the other. Rid yourselves of shallow megalomaniac psyche so that to join forces with those who work for the progress, prosperity instead of encouraging and defending Don quixote like frivolous adventures.

    • Al |

      @Qaimkhani: Quite Right. A tenth of the Iraqi population by some estimates has been killed in the aftermath of the US invasion & several times more have been displaced. Afghanistan has suffered a similar fate.

      And here Mr. Maher is sitting with his head up in his ass commenting that war is sometimes necessary. He should go and ask those that have been injured, displaced & whose relatives have been killed how necessary these wars really are.

      These 'KALA GORA's' really piss me off.

  • JJ |

    The US out of South Asia, NOW !!!!!!!!!

    The US out of South Asia, NOW !!!!!!!!!

  • Nazia |

    teeth

    We had no history of suicidal bombing before collateral cooperation of Pakistan army with NATO forces.

    So such collateral deals on the risk of placing our sovereignty on stake just for pleasing US is making same scene of destruction in our side .So Pakistani people shouldn't show any kind of surprise as we are hearing all this in which Pakistani soil and intelligence is being provided for such collateral damages.

  • Al |

    Teeth: I don't understand why you would be surprised watching this video. Of course this is what is going to happen. The wars are illegal & immoral to begin with so what morality can we expect from the US soldiers?

    We are so caught up in the western propaganda that we start using their terminologies. Why is an Iraqi fighting the US forces in Iraq or an Afghani a fanatic & a terrorist. I don't have to agree with the ideology he is fighting for & he may hold really twisted concepts of Islam but as a citizen of that country he has a right to fight the occupying forces.

    The US is the aggressor over her not the other way round & we often forget this distinction.

  • jahmoore |

    This is probably one of the 1000000000s of videos.

    Hague War Tribunal is nothing but a bunch of shits, who only enforce laws on poor countries.

    Obama A$$hole is just like any Pakistani politican, they promise change but instead of changing the system, they themselves change.

    Moral of the Story: If you are mighty, you can f@ckaround and still stay the Moral Beacons of THE MODERN WORLD.

  • Arshad Khan |

    This video just reemphasizes the fact that it is we the Muslims who need to be true to ourselves and fix ourselves socially, economically, religiously and politically before anything else. Instead of waiting for Americans to stop it for the Muslims which we are damn good at.

  • Al |

    @Maher Elahi: You got that wrong. Its not my language. Actually your head is so way up your ass that everything smells like that to you.

    • Maher Elahi |

      @Al,When a person loses argument and says faewell to reasoning and civility, he resorts to cursing, abusing and name calling. It is what you are doing now and I do not see any use for continuing an exchange with you. However I can not help contending that you are so much mired in human waste stuff that you have metamorphosed into a piece there of and any interaction with you amounts to befouling the blogosphere.

  • -khan- |

    25,000 pakistanis are killed under this american war in past five years… mostly innocents….

    Do we need american videos to confirm?? Go and check how many pakistanis lost their family members in this war…

    our media is sold like corrupt leaders.. they all are making money from these mass collateral murder campaigns…

    They are totally useless, incapable puppets…. they don’t care as how many innocents are being killed in their poor hunt of bad guys…. i guess nobody question them about innocent killings as are incapable to distinguish and save innocents while planning and executing for only culprits wisely and appropriately.

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news

    • Al |

      @Khan: Excellent article there by Robert Fisk. Must read for everyone

  • Al |

    Maher Elahi: That is absolutely right. I completely lost the argument to you over there because you made such a well reasoned case for the wars in Afghanistan & Iraq that even Bush & Blair could not have made. Even if they tried!

    I now totally understand when you say that the Americans have every right to kill Afghani's & Iraqi's because well its their right. And they can attack Pakistan too if the wars in Afghanistan & Iraq are getting a little too boring & they are running out of targets. Why? People who ask why should just shut up. Americans just want to lay down their lives & spend hundreds of billions of dollars because they care about ordinary Pakistanis just like they care so much about ordinary Iraqis & Afghanis & they just want to spread 'freedom' & 'democracy'. Is that too much to ask?

    We should just be thankful to them that they got rid of Saddam Hussain & the Taliban. So what if they supported & supplied Saddam Hussain with the weapons with which he carried out the atrocities or trained & armed the taliban cadres during the Afghan 'Jihad'. These are just inconvenient truths & its in the past anyways. We should just shut our mouths & be really grateful at their big-heartedness in letting us watch the killings on video. So nice of them. Who are we to complain.

    TOTALLY get you Mr. Maher. You have really won me over there with your arguments.

    Now get your head out of your ass & stop watching Fox News so much.

  • Maher Elahi |

    Al, you and your likes present a classic case of scizophrenia a componded malady indicating prosecution compless,megalomania and maniacdepressive.

    Is not it that you and so many others think that the almost all who matter in this worlld are obsseded and focused at your nation with a mission to prosecute and harm. That gives birth to so many consipracy theories which are mostly figments of disoriented minds.

    Due to the sickness the situation is not consideed in the properperspective and exercises are made to rationalize the matters in absolutely moronic way.

    In case of meglomania when no excelling achievements are found which have had contributed in the progress of human civilizations and related conditions, the pride in past glory is displayed for the affiliation with robber barons and other assorted invaders who brout death, destruction and mayhem to those who were mostly settled and lived in peace. Again superiority in belief system is proclaimed by some who think billions of others who do not profess what they profess are either inferior or worth to be done away with.

    In case of manicdepressive the acute degradation and abyss of miseries generate the violent behaviour wich results in self destructive acts and sucide attacks.

    Now apply all the above the the obgective conditions and find that so many consipracy theories go around blaming outsiders for what is own doing of you and your ilk. How many in the country remain busy in fabrictions which are mostly unfounded and baseless. As a matter of course all own committed misdeeds are rationalized.

    Saddam is absolved of the invasion of Iran and astrocities perpetrated on Kurds as he could not have done if not provided for and encouraged by America. No justification for his actions can be more foolish than this.

    Similarly Zia, the military leadership, philistine and opportunistic attitude of politians who used religion to grind their respective axes are absolved for the rise of yahoo force of barbarians called Taliban and America is blamed for creating them for its own use. This was not possible without converging of so many interests and to blame America for that is so irational and flimsy.

    The disease of meglomania is very well manifested from what is churned on daily basis by most of the talk show hosts of Pakistan TV and particularly Zaid Hamid, Shahid Masood etc. and their guests.

    The depressivemaniac disease is witnessed in how the countries is being ruled by various dynesties,feudals,military and civil bureaucracy. The rampant corruption, misplaced priorities and dire conditions in the vital fields of education, health and overall breakdown of sociaol fabric and declining economy.

    Here the people like you remain busy in disparafing America and what it stands for as a distraction from thee important relevent issues.

    What ever America has done sofor can not be totally commendable, but does have a long list of exellant achievements which can hardly be matched by any other.

    I give below a few just as for refreshing your memory;

    1 America made the winning of 1st world war possible by allies.

    2 It was with American forces's hel that fascism was defeated.

    3 Marshall plan revived the economies of Europe.

    4Vanquished nations were also helped in many ways to stand on their own feet.

    5 America played leading role in creating UNO and its allied institutions.

    6 America created institutions like Wold Bank, IMF and ADB to help developing nations and many those who kept their priorities straight have benefited from them enormously.

    7 America brought down the Berlin wall and open the Soviet Union.

    8 America saved the muslim ettenic minorities of Serbia.

    It is the home for most of the major inventions which have made the living more comfortable for bulk of the world population.

    9It is home of microsoft, intel, google and cisco.

    10 It has produced so many mircle drugs.

    11 It elected a black President havin majority white population who is leading the world wisely and is a harbinger of change in the world order.

    There are so many other good thing which may be enumerated some other time.

    • Al |

      @Maher Elahi: Mr. Armchair Psychologist thank you for your diagnosis but i really don't need any advice from a man who has his head so way up in his ass.

      That is why i suggested that read more books & base your opinion & information less on Fox News & other TV channels.

      And one more request. Please spare us your lame attempts at sounding intellectual because its really not working.

      I'll tell you a little about 'my kind' because you could not have been more off in your analysis.

      First of all you say:

      //"Is not it that you and so many others think that the almost all who matter in this worlld are obsseded and focused at your nation with a mission to prosecute and harm."//

      No its not it. I don't think the US & the world are obsessed with Pakistan & its nuclear weapons. In fact the US has been the biggest ally of our government & military since the 50's in monetary terms. Most of our weapons come from western countries so if the US really wanted to do away with Pakistan as a country it wouldnt take too much of an effort on their part. It was the US that saved our neck in 1971 when it pressed on the Indian government not to overrun West Pakistan in the aftermath of the Fall of Dhaka.

      The US government looked the other way while we were developing our nuclear weapons all through the 80's because they needed our support for the Afghan 'Jihad'. And they had plenty of proof that we were developing them. (You can read Deception by Adrian Levy, a gora writer not one of us schizophrenic, megalomaniacal, manic-depressive Pakistanis so you are more likely to believe what he says)

      So if the US did not want us to have nuclear weapons in the first place it could have stopped us pretty early on. Of course they don't like us having them but in the list of their strategic interests it is not that high a priority as many in Pakistan think.

      Then you say: //"That gives birth to so many consipracy theories which are mostly figments of disoriented minds. Due to the sickness the situation is not consideed in the properperspective and exercises are made to rationalize the matters in absolutely moronic way."//

      Again in your quest to sound intellectual you are ready to stereotype everyone who does not agree with you & is ready to lick America's ass like you. Please go through this entire blog & point out one place i have been peddling any conspiracy theories or promoting conspiracy theorists. The only person who is coming across as having a disoriented mind over here is you.

      Then you say: "// In case of meglomania when no excelling achievements are found which have had contributed in the progress of human civilizations and related conditions, the pride in past glory is displayed for the affiliation with robber barons and other assorted invaders who brout death, destruction and mayhem to those who were mostly settled and lived in peace. Again superiority in belief system is proclaimed by some who think billions of others who do not profess what they profess are either inferior or worth to be done away with.//

      Again your 'disoriented mind' is making a BIG assumption over here that i take pride in people like Mahmood Ghazni & the like.

      As far as superiority of belief system is concerned, of course i think that Islam is the right path otherwise i wouldn't be a muslim. That is no different from a Christian or a Budhist who also believes he is following the right religion. So calling oneself a christian, muslim or budhist & at the same time proclaiming that your religion is not necessarily the right one just doesn't make sense. People follow a religion because they think it is the right one.

      As far as considering myself superior to others because i am a Muslim, I do not. And neither does our religion teach us this. That is why we usually say Alhamdolillah or Praise be to Allah that he has made us a Muslim & shown us the right path.

      Our Holy Prophet (PBUH) has said that no one who has a shred of Ghuroor/Pride in him or herself will be allowed to enter Jannat so thinking myself superior to other persons is out of the question.

      Then you say: "//In case of manicdepressive the acute degradation and abyss of miseries generate the violent behaviour wich results in self destructive acts and sucide attacks."//

      You are right for once. Violent behavior is a result of deprivations & abuse OR even the perception of deprivation & abuse. That is why you might find even people from middle class backgrounds who are not directly affected by the US imposed wars ready to fight & lay down their lives. But no despite your diagnosis i am not about to blow myself up.

      Then you say: //"Saddam is absolved of the invasion of Iran and astrocities perpetrated on Kurds as he could not have done if not provided for and encouraged by America. No justification for his actions can be more foolish than this."//

      Mr. Maher please get out of your 'either you are with us or against us' mindset & stop seeing everything in black & white. Opposing America does not mean that one is automatically supporting Saddam Hussain or the Taliban.

      No one justified Saddam's actions. He was definitely a brutal dictator but again that does not give a license to any country in the world to attack & occupy Iraq. That includes your favorite country the USA.

      //"Similarly Zia, the military leadership, philistine and opportunistic attitude of politians who used religion to grind their respective axes are absolved for the rise of yahoo force of barbarians called Taliban and America is blamed for creating them for its own use. This was not possible without converging of so many interests and to blame America for that is so irational and flimsy."//

      Of course Zia & our military leadership (past & present) are as much to blame for the mess in Afghanistan & our border regions. And definitely it all happened because of a convergence of interests.

      But despite how much you want, your favorite country can still not be absolved of its responsibility in the whole affair. The 'jihad' against the Soviets would definitely not have been possible without the US monetary support & more importantly military support.

      Then you say: //"The disease of meglomania is very well manifested from what is churned on daily basis by most of the talk show hosts of Pakistan TV and particularly Zaid Hamid, Shahid Masood etc. and their guests."//

      Again with the stereotyping & your lame attempts at sounding intellectual by naming personalities like Shahid Masood & Zaid Hamid. As far as Zaid Hamid is concerned i think even a goat would sound more intellectual in front of him. And i place Shahid Masood in the category of 'wishful journalists' who report what they want to happen not what is actually happening.

      Then you say: "//The depressivemaniac disease is witnessed in how the countries is being ruled by various dynesties, feudals, military and civil bureaucracy. The rampant corruption, misplaced priorities and dire conditions in the vital fields of education, health and overall breakdown of sociaol fabric and declining economy.

      Here the people like you remain busy in disparafing America and what it stands for as a distraction from thee important relevent issues."//

      All of your first paragraph i agree with. Our country is in a very bad condition & we still do not have our priorities right. Instead of investing in our future, in education, in health etc. we spend more on useless military hardware. We already have a deterrent in the form of nuclear weapons & we need to really cut down on our defense expenditures. We need to realize that we can never win a war with India & India will never give up on Kashmir. So we need to divert our attention to ourselves instead of worrying about Kashmiris who probably don't even want to join us.

      But this does not mean in any way as you are implying that it is because 'people like me' blame America for its policies. As far as 'people like me' are concerned I do not blame America, Jews, Zionists, Hindus, CIA, RAW, Mossad etc. etc. for all our problems & neither do i suggest that we should concentrate on dealing with these mostly imagined external threats at the expense of our education & health.

      But yes i am going to oppose any country even if its your favorite one for attacking & occupying other countries & massacring & killing hundreds of thousands of civilians.

      I will continue with the answer below.

    • Al |

      @Maher Elahi: Continued from above.

      You go on to say that: //"What ever America has done sofor can not be totally commendable, but does have a long list of exellant achievements which can hardly be matched by any other."//

      Then you go on to list the 'achievements'. I will answer them below but it would be of no use unless you realize that states all over the world do not run their foreign policies based on any morals but rather based on their political, economic & strategic interests. That includes Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, India, the USA, UK & any country you name.

      Your list looks like it has come straight out of a US high school history textbook. It is beyond me how you can even criticize people here who use fictionalized history to glorify our past. You are no different.

      You say: "//1 America made the winning of 1st world war possible by allies.//

      So? Allies of whom? By allies do you mean Great Britain that had colonized our subcontinent, subjugated the population & usurped many of its resources for centuries?

      Then you go on to list: //2 It was with American forces's hel that fascism was defeated.

      3 Marshall plan revived the economies of Europe.

      4Vanquished nations were also helped in many ways to stand on their own feet.

      5 America played leading role in creating UNO and its allied institutions.

      6 America created institutions like Wold Bank, IMF and ADB to help developing nations and many those who kept their priorities straight have benefited from them enormously.

      7 America brought down the Berlin wall and open the Soviet Union" //

      Where was fascism defeated? In Europe, not all over the world. So please get out of your western mindset where the world begins & ends in Europe & America. And it was only because it served US interests at the time. Your favorite country has a long history of supporting fascist dictators all over the world. After the 2nd World War the US has supported many such characters specially in Latin America.

      How stupid do you have to be to be presenting the UN, IMF, & World Bank as 'achievements' of the US. I don't even know what to say to your stupid list of 'achievements'.

      I suggest you watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pnhmq9Hl0qY & the other parts as well as well as other videos.

      This is Noam Chomsky a very widely respected American Intellectual not one of us schizophrenic, megalomaniacal, manic-depressive Pakistanis.

      Maybe i hope against hope that it will open your eyes to the realities of US foreign Policies.

      Your last 3 points do not have anything to do with anything i have been saying. I have not said everything about America is bad. It is not without any reason that it has become the most powerful country in the world. There are many good things about that country.

      But we are discussing US Foreign Policy over here. Microsoft, Intel, or electing a Black President do not have anything to do with it. And any of these do not in ANY WAY justify the US governments actions around the world.

      So please do a little more reading of impartial history instead of relying on television channels & the media. You can read 'Imperial Ambitions' & 'World Orders – Old & New" both excellent books. They will answer a lot of your questions & your misplaced belief in the virtues of American foreign policy.

      And once more get your head out of your ass. agar mushkil ho rahi he tu naryal ka tel istimal kar ke dekhye.

  • awara |

    Maher Elahi,

    Jab aqal bunt rahee thee to kiaa phatee hoee thelee liey kharey they?

    You sound like 'Shah sai barhkey shah kai wafadar', angrez chaley gaey, kaley angrez chorr gaey.

    So if US is the home of MS, Intel, google and other numerous companies than they have the right to kill Muslims left and right?

    I guess you would propose that with every new version of Windows and Iphone the US gets more and more rights to kill Muslims?

    What a brilliant justification.

    Honestly, tell me, Chootia hain yaa tumhain choorr gaey?

    • Al |

      @awara: You say: "I guess you would propose that with every new version of Windows and Iphone the US gets more and more rights to kill Muslims?"

      hahahahahahahaha

      The biggest tragedy with 'Kale Angraiz' like Mr. Maher 'American ass-licker' Elahi is that despite how much ass they lick at the end of the day they will still be considered brown skinned & Pakistani by those whose ass they are licking. Despite their intense desire to be considered one of the Americans.

  • Nazia |

    Guys be careful

    your high profile observation on American policies,Window budget,role of UN,IMF world bank on destroying third world infrastructure for creating dominance of few super powers. could become threat for us again.

    US can think of another master mind moves after realizing that you picked their foxy tricks!

    In this detail messy discussions you are forgetting that ziaulhaq , musharf , shaukat aziz , shaukat tareen and zardari,Altaf hussain are pure Pakistanis who mesmerized many of you through such slogans of "Pakistan first: or Pakistan khapay and you blindly supported them.

    So US and its policies are only successful in the country of traitors and you call them enlightened and modern leaders .

  • Maher Elahi |

    Al,from your post I gather you are not so narrow minded after all, as you have conceded to almost all the points made in my post one way or the other.

    In my previous post I ignored you profanity, hoping that you would come up with some sort of civil exchange of views which however did not happen.

    on reviewing the situation I find that from some one who hides the real name and adorns oneself with user namme like Al which appears to be standing for Ass Lapper or Ass Licker nothing better should have been expected. Your disease or infirmity is called ASPE or Ass sniffing Poop Eating syndrome and you need to consult some counselor or psychiatrist to undergo treatment. If it is not cured, you will have to suffer it throughout your wrtched life on this planet earth. It has been caused by the effect of retardation which makes you entrapped in toddler stage. That is why you are so ashamed of yourself that you have to hide behind a fictitious name.

    Your gloating about your enormous reading of books and mentioning a few to be read by me was rather funy, when you do not know fully well about some one else, how on earth you can persume that what you have picked from summaries on internet were not available on Kindle or in hard copy to him.

    I know you will not heed but still I will like to say stop being cocky, refrain rom broadcasting shit from all of your holes.

    I donot consider myself an intellectual, yet I hold myself some one who likes civil discourse instead of the exchange of prophanity.

  • Al |

    @Maher Elahi: Mr. Armchair Psychiatrist do you smoke pot or something? Anyone reading our comments can surely see that I have not conceded to any of your stupid arguments justifying the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan. Its your own narrow mind that assumes that anyone who does not agree with your American ass licking is a follower of Zaid Hamid & his likes.

    You are so stupid that you believe that the American government is spending hundreds of billions of dollars annually because it wants to spread 'freedom' & 'democracy' in Iraq & Afghanistan.

    And then you want the people on this forum to stop pointing fingers at Americans & be thankful to them because it is technology created by them that has enabled us to watch the killings on video in the first place.

    Then you come up with a list of American 'achievements' that you have most probably gotten out of some high school history textbook pointing to Microsoft & Cisco as these would somehow justify the atrocities that the US government is carrying out around the world.

    Please get out of this slave mentality & stop worshiping America. I know that it is your intense desire to be accepted as one of them but call it your bad luck that you have been born with a brown chamri.

    I have listed only 3 books. This to you is an 'enormous reading of books'? No wonder then you come up with such stupid senseless arguments.

    You say: //"Your gloating about your enormous reading of books and mentioning a few to be read by me was rather funy, when you do not know fully well about some one else, how on earth you can persume that what you have picked from summaries on internet were not available on Kindle or in hard copy to him."//

    I really cannot figure out what you are trying to say over here? Who is the someone else you refer to that i don't know about? What have i presumed? I have just listed a few books by some writers from your favorite country & not by any of us schizophrenic, megalomaniacal, manic-depressive Pakistanis.

    I have read the three books i have referred to you. What are you presuming that i have presumed? If you mean i have presumed that you haven't read these books than that is pretty evident from your stupid arguments.

    Why do you have to mention Kindle over here? Again please spare us these lame attempts at sounding intellectual.

    And how the f… do we know who Maher Elahi is or if its a real name or not? If you want to be so open then please publish your home & office addresses, phone numbers, cell phone number, email address, fathers name, details of your family on this forum so we can know for sure who you really are.

    If not then Mr. 'Open' please shut your trap & try getting your head out of your ass. I figure ke naryal ke tel se bhi kaam nahi banna. engine oil try kar ke dekhye.

  • jadel |

    You can find a total world wide onslaught by Americans to portray Leading Islamic nations under the scanner of terrorism to hinder the respective countries development and destroy their existence. For this to be effective, everyone should blame their own political leaders who are the representative of US. The best example is Musharaff who chose to settle in the west fearing the truth will come out and will be hanged by the people. If he was sincere enough he should have settled in a Muslim country. He played with the sentiments of the Muslims.

  • Aamir Mughal |

    US are Collateral Murderers in Iraq … and they wouldn’t do that in Pakistan, will they? Posted by Teeth Maestro April 6, 2010 [teeth maestro]

    =====================

    Pakistan to get US guided-missile frigate on Aug 31 Wednesday, April 21, 2010 By Sami Abraham
    http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?I

    WASHINGTON: Pakistan and United States signed a contract for the transfer of the guided-missile frigate USS McInerney here on Tuesday. The contract will enable Pakistan to take over the USS McInerney at the US Naval station Mayport, Florida on August 31 this year, after which it will be commissioned as PNS Alamgir .A comprehensive refurbishment of the ship will be undertaken under the supervision of US Navy, which will be completed by January 2011.

    • Nazia |

      Mughal

      No one has courage to ask our army mafia that for whom you are buying this kind of missile system.

      Short vision of filling the pocket of individuals and giving long term benefits to western interests and arms industry are the major reasons of miltiary dominance and resulting chaos in our homeland.

  • Maher Elahi |

    AL, You are absolutely pissed off that is why your language not only smells like piss but also like that stuff which comes out of the adjoined outlet. Will you please try to be more civil in future.

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