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Guantanamo: Quran on Toilets

In the latest issue of Newsweek (Dated: May 9, 2005), a horriyfying scandal about the Guantanamo Bay has been revealed.

Among the previously unreported cases, sources tell NEWSWEEK: interrogators, in an attempt to rattle suspects, placed Qur’ans on toilets and, in at least one case, flushed a holy book down the toilet.

……The US indeed remains as the biggest human rights violater of all time, I think its about time to put our foot down. Check out the hyperlink to the news story @ Newsweek Intl (3rd story from the top)

What do you have to say about this?


  • S A J Shirazi |

    I have this to say: This is asking for Azab-e-Ilahi (Allah’s anger). They sure are going to have it. Soon. . .

  • KO |

    The US indeed remains as the biggest human rights violater of all time
    It’s not even close. Some history?

  • Zag |

    That is crossing the line. How can they think this is all going to help. Something like this was bound to come out in the open, and after hearing this, even a muslim with the weakest of faith would start hating the Americans. I know what they are going to say, not all Americans are like that. Well, welcome to the party. I remember reading and reading about not all Muslims being the same, yet, everyone with the name Mohammad or who had a beard was treated the same. Even Sikhs came in the line of fire because they had beard (one sikh was killed in Arizona after 9/11).

  • shobz |

    I am so shocked by what i am reading. I cant believe how they desecrated our Holy Quran like that. they (americans) are hypocrites. they believe in the freedom of religion and yet they do such horrible acts. I just hope that Allah deals with it in His own way.

  • fira |

    The White civilisation has been the most brutal in history. By white civilisation I mean those of European descent.

    A short resume: They decimated the Red Indian population in North America which was 10 million at its peak and may have been bigger than the population of China today had they lived. They decimated the Inca population in South America and the Aboriginees in Australia. The established balck slavery trade which was frowned upon by Islam which practically abolished it 1400 yrs ago and the Christian church. Millions were killed in the process and millions more enslaved whic h went on for three centuries. The fought two world wars in Europe killion millions more again including an estimated 6 million jews (then compensated them with muslim land). they dropped two atmic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki with a gap of 3 days (Aug6 and 9) did not wait after the first bomb for them to surrender. They killed millions more in Vietnam, Korea, now in Iraq, Bosnia, Chechenya. The list is endless. This is just a summary. The white civilization has been the most brutal in history. Their arguments change depending on their need. A democratic UN as long as it was fulfilling their objectives throughout the fifties to eightees, now it is a useless organisation. CTBT when needed, Mujahideen one decade and terroritsts in another. Human right issue to browbeat China. Terrorism today with a whif of the need for democratisation and regime changes. No argument and no intention today can be trusted to have been found on principles. All fickle, and all a bunch of lies.

  • Zen MIstress |

    “The US indeed remains as the biggest human rights violater of all time”

    Have you gone gaga? Not that I don’t agree that there have been human rights violation committed by USA and on a very large scale, I don’t get carried away to say that they are biggest of all time.

    Are the torture cells of US army worse than poliec stations in Pakistan? Has the army of USA been involved in gang rapes saying that all the Bengali women need is Punjabi sperms. Please go read Hamood ur Rehman commission report first before issuing any fatwas.

  • Teeth Maestro |

    KO & Zen – I might agree the statement I made can be a little harsh and I officially soften the statement by now claiming “US can be counted as probably one of the bigest violators of Human rights” I hope this is a neutralized version of the statement to hopefully put it in better context

    Zen, I am not an anti-US person but just get irritated by the bully-like attitude of the US which tries to exploit the world to its own benefit. It went into Afghan and captured hundreds of people and moved them to the guantanamo bay, the only reason to do that was there they could hold prisoner without any charge and their crime is only on hearsay, and you cant detain 500 or more prisoners without officially charging them. The Quran incident is just a minor leak that came out it in effect simply irritates the muslims extermist and also re-enforces the Mullah MMA to holler an Anti-US war cry even louder then before surely a step backwards in the Anti-terrorist effort by the US

    US has no care for human rights, examples are before you Guantanamo Bay and also Abu Ghairb incident, thats only two prisons do u think it would stop there, I seriously doubt it, do u also think that only a few officers were involved, I seriously doubt it and feel this practice is prevalent in all out-of-country prisons where they feel are unaccountable to the US media, thats their only enemy to expose them.

    I see the Iraq incident as one in which the US invaded iraq and thats in principal an act of war, hold all the democratic elections to cover your tracks but an invasion is an invasion. and the US committed an act of war. We got hell for walkign across the border in the Kargil issue but we were weaklings and got squashed too quickly, tell me who can actually finally tame the rampant bully, I see no one in the horizon, the UN is ineffective and other lobbies are worthless. Often said When Bullies fall they usually fall harder.

    Paki police incidents are horrifying too, raise the issue and I will be the first to condone it and even act if required so best to leave the pakistani police brutality discussion for another day.

    Zen I assure you – I am not anti-US – but just want to raise my own voice in the thousands already doing so and amongst the millions who choose to remain quite, to stand by and watch the drama unfold. Awaiting your response for a healthy discussion.

  • Zen Mistress |


    Thanks for softening your stance. You are better man for that. Now you are closer to reality than before IMO.

    I agree with most of the things that you expressed. There are many sides of an issue. What’s happening in Middle East and in the rest of the world doesn’t have one single cause. With that many sides, its up to individuals to decide what do they choose to get worked up and show there irritation and frustration. Some get irritated with USA, some see Muslim’s recklessness with there futures and mal-planning and/or total lack of it as the root cause for it.

    USA is a bully, total agreement, no question or qualification about it. But my lmited knowledge of history tells me that if USA were not such a bully, the next most powerful country woul. Remember Algeria? That was France, not USA. The world does not work on the principle of right and wrong, however strongly we may wish it to be, it works on Might Is Right since time immemorial. Track the history backward., there has always be at least one bullyish power all the time. USA, United Kingdom, Spain, Portugal, Rome, etc. Even the earlier Islamic history, even Muslims were an imperialist power.

    I know you will say that Muslims were different but that’d be subjective. There are people in USA who think that USA’s invasion of Iraq is different. So there will always be people favoring or arguing reason for one imperial power and other. If you read history, most of the Muslim conquerers gave exactly the same reasons to invade certain soveriegn countries that Bush today gives. You would say that they were telling the truth but Bush is lying but, once again, that is subjective and you are forced to say that because you are picking sides. I am not picking sides because every side is equally right or equally wrong over the history.


  • Zen MIstress |

    To Zag

    "Something like this was bound to come out in the open, and after hearing this, even a muslim with the weakest of faith would start hating the Americans. "

    I am a Muslim with the weakest of faith and I don't hate America. There you go. Your fatwa just proven wrong.

    The nerve of us Pakistanis, eh? US soldiers dececrate Quran and we get all worked up. Some torture stories from Ahu Gharaib and we can't sleep at nights. Get a life people. Interrogators at Guantanamo and Abu Gharaib, however hard they try, can never reach the levels of the torture being done in all Pakistani police stations 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and 52 weeks a year. Descrating Quran is a type of psychological torture. You want to know what is the worst psycho-terror? Arresting the entire family of a suspect and locking them up in hawalat. And yet none of the police torture in Pakistan makes you hate Pakistan and give you sleepless nights. Some stories about US torture and you 'hate' USA. If that's not hypocrisy, I don't know what is.

    You write, "Even Sikhs came in the line of fire because they had beard (one sikh was killed in Arizona after 9/11). "

    Well, that was just one instant. How many times after 9/11 did President Bush said in his speech that not all Muslims are terrorists? You want references? Oh, but you don't notice that because things like that don't go thru the 'filter' you have put on your mind. One sikh got killed. OK, what else? Also, would you please share with me using your immense wisdom what would have happened if such a thing would have happened in Pakistan? There would be mobs in streets killing every American in sight. We are the nation that burns down a newspaper press if we don't like something that is being printed and while we are there, just to save time, we burn down the nearest cinema too. Do WE have the right to criticize America? According to what standard? Or are you criticizing America that it becoming too much like a Muslim country? If that is the case, I agree.

  • Mark |

    It’s unfortunate that ypou left out the next line in the story:

    “An Army spokesman confirms that 10 interrogators have been disciplined for mistreating prisoners at Gitmo.”

  • Steven Michels |

    So someone flushed a Quran down the toilet? How horrible and disgusting! What an awful desecration of a perfectly good toilet. I would never sully my toilet with the filthy Quran. The Quran is not even worthy enough to be slammed into a steaming pile of snake feces.

  • shobz |

    thats probably coz u were born in the toilet. thats where u probably hang out. and conduct ur social activities.

    u know doc, i had some asshole leaving some vile comments about the desecration of the Holy Quran.

    ps. i am also not anti US but then violating the rights of people is something i am against.

  • Mark |

    You all might want to have a look at this before continuing any more discussion on how the US is such a human rights violator for desecration of the Qu’uran:


    I think there are at least twenty countries I can name that are guilty of human rights violations before the US could ever begin to be considered. Topping the list: Every member of the Arab League, Pakistan (as Zen Mistress points out), China, North Korea, the Sudan, several South American countries, I could go on but I think the point is made.

  • Steven Michels |

    That’s right, shobz. I hang out by the toilet, talking to the Muslim Tidy Bowl Man, and cornholing your sharmoota mommy, you stupid, inbred Pakistinky. By the way, tell her I said “Thanks for the discount.” Quack! And who says I’m a guy, assmonkey?

  • shobz |

    oh fuck off u aging redneck with tobacco drool. i dare you to face me in the flesh. iby the way u were cornholing ur own mommy. u should quit wanking off. all that wanking has made u loose ur vision and made u screw ur own. ur iq is no better than forrest gump’s iq dickhead. go back to ur ku klux klan. it would be fun to leave u stranded in an all black country where u can enjoy being beaten up. better yet why not get u cornholed 24 hours a day. bet u would enjoy that wouldnt ya.

    mark dont divert the topic away from the desecration. why is it that the US is always gleeful when some other country does something wrong? hmm i guess they forgot about hiroshima, vietnam, grenada, guerilla wars, the contra wars, etc. we never claimed that we have a good record. however you all are also a blemish on everything. by the way i am sickened by the us administration and not its people unlike some rednecks who want to desecrate the Holy Quranin their own way. so please dont think that u all have gotten away scot free. its easy to intimidate a newspaper editor in making a retraction.

  • Mark |

    “its easy to intimidate a newspaper editor in making a retraction.”

    Shobz – I refuse to stoop to the level of “argument” in which you and Steven Michels are engaged. As far as the comment above, I don’t think it would be easy for unnamed sources to pressure the editor of Newsweek into admitting they reported false information that led to at least fifteen deaths and scores of injuries. This smacks of a conspiracy theory on a scale comparable to the claim that Jews were responsible for the WTC attacks.

    “why is it that the US is always gleeful when some other country does something wrong?”

    Actually, it was a US magazine that did something wrong in this instance, so your point is hardly made.

    “mark dont divert the topic away from the desecration.”

    Well, again, Shobz, there WAS no desecration away from which I could steer the topic. That IS the point. My stance has not been that the US is NOT guilty of wrongdoing. Far from it, although I don’t agree with all of the examples you gave. However, my point, which still stands, is that when it comes to actual human rights abuses, the US is far down the list of countries that really are guilty of such crimes. I didn’t cast the first stone at those who also live in glass houses. Teeth Maestro did. The issue here is about the false story reported in Newsweek and its fatal ramifications. Unfortunately, no one seems to want to stay on point.

  • Mark |

    mark dont divert the topic away from the desecration.

    Shobz – There WAS no desecration.

    its easy to intimidate a newspaper editor in making a retraction.

    It wasn’t a newspaper, it was a magazine – Newsweek. You don’t have much grasp of the issue for one so sure of one’s convictions.

  • Teeth Maestro |

    @ Mark
    @ Steven
    and ofcourse @ Shobz

    Its been interesting reading the discussion, I would have take an active part in the argument but seems as my computer has been cursed, I have lost significant amount of data and will take me time before I come up to speed.

    Firstly let me address the name calling that is in progress, I refused to be part of it as feel the name calling distracts from the actual discussion and soon it just becomes “my mother your mother- ball game” I feel Steven should not have made the initial comment, if you as educated individuals want to discuss then its always best to have respect for other religions (even if you dont believe in the other religion). You can contest the beliefs but with a well approach do not hold back but dont be harsh. I don’t believe in censorship but all I ask for is some decent approach to handle issues of religion with due care “it usually goes you respect my religion I respect yours”

    The next issue is the actual discussion under argument, be it any religion, be it the old testiment or even the Bible, I must agree its only a piece of paper BUT it is only an emotional value that is under discussion. I feel it was a wrong thing to do, and should not have been used for tourmenting prisoners, once these people become free (ie if they do) they will become even more extremists.

    I stop here and I lwould like to let people reflect at my comments – lets stop accusing and lets discuss the actual issue at hand.

  • shobz |

    mark ur rebuttal is very flimsy. the point is that you have shown ur true colors. how do we know that the us government isnt covering up its tracks? the only point you have against me is that i called newsweek a magazine. grow up and stop bottle feeding. you are talking like as if i have called everyone to do something horrible. i just talked about it and didnt go around attacking everyone else in sight. its easy for you all to attack us coz u think that u are the lords of the world. i take it that u havent watched team america world police. i feel so sorry for you that you are so lame to fight over something so inconsequential. i have already made my point. so please stop shaking in your boots.

  • duckthunder2001 |

    Let’s talk about what is reasonable, Teeth Maestro. Is it reasonable to force Muslim women back into a burning building and make them burn to death because they are not “properly covered” according to Islamic standards? Is it reasonable that Indonesian Muslimahs are not allowed to go to the doctor no matter how ill they are? Is it reasonable that Muhammad had sex on top of 9-year-old Aisha? Were Saddam’s rape rooms reasonable? Can we assume you are a Muslim, Maestro? Does that mean that you are a dentist that wipes his behind with his bare left hand, and later sticks his hands in patients’ mouths? I hope you aren’t too excited about those 72 virgins you think you are supposedly getting in the afterlife. Because actually it will be one 72-year-old virgin–shobz! Is it reasonable that so many children are continually dying or being crippled by polio because the paranoid Muslim leaders in Africa are spreading b.s. about the vaccines containing chemical agents that will either cause AIDS or cause the vaccinated to become sterile as part of a U.S. plot? Yes, let us talk reasonably, Maestro.

  • Teeth Maestro |

    DuckThunder – thank you for your response, now lets talk, discuss and maybe argue 😉

    I can see where you drive your arguments and I feel it important to tell you what is a rumor and what is the actual reality

    Women are required by Islam to be adequately dressed, that means in such a way that it in no way excites or tempts other unrelated men, women have a decency which needs to be respected and for that reason are asked to dress conservatively. This conservative dressing has over time presented itself as a Black veil. I ask people why is the world so much pre-occupied with removing the Muslim Black Veil when Christian Nuns too wear the black attire to exhibit a more respectable attire. I too sadly have also heard stories about women being shoved into burning buildings, but I assure you that this is NOT Islam, the terrorists attacks into 9-11 was also not Islam, it was done by fanatics who have twisted the actual meaning of the religion and converted it into a ”Jehad” and I along with the millions of other muslims have condemned this act and have repeatedly apologized to all the affected families.

    Muhammed (PBUH) Did NOT have sex on top of Aisha – I would ask you for evidence to convince me otherwise, I have never heard of such a rumor and would like to help you convince otherwise.

    I am a Muslim and I am also a dentist, The fact that we wash ourselves with water should have no problem. You in your own way may utilize the usage of a tissue paper and we prefer water. I assure you like all medical doctors I follow a strict protocol, which is no different from other doctors providing medical attention after visiting the washroom.

    the 72 women assured to every muslim in heaven is NOT an indication to have sex all day long but more so an indication to having all the hapiness the world can ever offer. Have you thought what will be offered to the Muslim women, well I assure you its just more like – a bag of gold at the end of the rainbow, to get to that golden bag one has to pray and live like a true Muslim to achieve the Ultimate goal.

    Every religion has fanatics, christianlity has its own right and left but one should look more towards the center where the actual religion exists, Islam too has its fanatics, both right and left, but I ask you to look only at the true religion. Today I am not preaching you the religion and have no intention to do so, but I feel incorrect rumors need to be adquately addressed and maybe answered to your satisfaction

    I too am not excited at looking at a 72-yr old Shobz 😉 over to you….

  • duckthunder2001 |

    Teeth Maestro,
    Are you denying that the Quran itself states unequivocally that Abu Baker gave to his cousin Muhammad his 6-year-old daughter for marriage and that the marriage became official when she was 9 years old? Also, if Muslims take the promise of 72 virgins literally, and we both know that many do, is this a punishment for those 72 virgins? I don’t see how being one of 72 virgins and part of an eternal harem can exactly be considered a reward for the women involved. Also, I’m not understanding where these virgins are coming from. Surely if such an enormous number of virgins exist for the Muslim man’s reward, they must not have lived life on earth but were instead created especially in Heaven for the occasion. For there simply cannot be an adequate number of live earthly virgins that die before they are married. Let’s not dance around. We know that in Muslim-controlled societies, women are forced to marry, and marry young. So from where do all these virgins spring? And since you reminded me, just exactly what is the promised reward for a good Muslimah? I have been informed that it is indeed to be a man’s sex toy for eternity. You call that a reward? Bag of gold, huh? lol. Sounds like a euphemism for Donald Trump’s naughty bits. lol. As for the issue of every religion having extremists, it’s funny you bring that up, because that very thought was at the forefront of my mind for the last couple of hours. Because in today’s modern world, while there are still some very dogmatic religions, Catholicism, Judaism, Protestant Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Islam being the most mainstream, prominent, and dogmatic, only Islam advocates death for some violations of religious doctrine. Even Israeli Jews, who live and breathe their religion, and are more than willing to die for it, do not punish violators with death, even among the most extremist sects. Now you can try and seperate yourselves from what you term the extremists of Islam, but it does not hold water, because it is not only American press that reports the daily violations of basic human rights, particularly of females, but press all around the world. And if the Middle Eastern countries where the population is mainly Muslim and the governments are for all intents and purposes theocracies run by “revered” Muslim clerics, doesn’t represent mainstream Islam, then nothing does. And Iran, one Muslim-run theocracy among many, declared a death fatwah against Salman Rushdie for penning a book that cast Islam in a bad light. I have no desire whatsoever to deny any religion their inalienable right to set standards for modesty or any other thing, but that inalienable right stops where it threatens to be held more important than life itself. And actually, a woman covering herself as much as possible in those perpetually arid sunny regions sounds like a really good idea to me, for cosmetic and health reasons. Did it ever occur to you that maybe that was why the religions in that region were handed down that principle by God, not necessarily just for modesty’s sake, but also to keep Middle Eastern people from eventually developing into having the same skin tones and characteristics that Africans have, science having stated that over time, people will develop characteristics that become part of the genetic profile because of persistent environmental factors? God is multi-talented, and often doesn’t explain all his complex reasoning to us puny humans. Maybe you’ve noticed that too. lol. God appears to be a bit on the introverted side, in case you hadn’t noticed. But let’s put all that aside for the moment and discuss the main issue here. Canadian bacon. I simply cannot get behind a deity that makes such a delicious thing as canadian bacon, then throws you into hell for eating it. lol. Also, it is my understanding that Muslims invented algebra. Thanks a lot. Grrrr. lol. Okay, back to the serious side. One of the real head-scratchers is the fact that many if not all Muslims believe literally that Jesus was truly the product of an immaculate conception and a virgin birth, yet nobody else has been granted that special circumstance, not even Muhammad. Yet, even believing this, you do not regard that as being very special, and you hold Muhammad to be above Jesus on the heavenly “corporate ladder”. This does not compute. This does not compute. Then there is the fact that so many hardline Muslim groups have thrown themselves into the fray in Iraq because they are uber-irked that we deposed Saddam Hussein, underwear model. Yet Saddam was a major idolator, a supposed no-no in Islam. Look at how many statues of himself were scattered all over Iraq. And , once again, about your assertion that the backwards thinking of many Muslims, which causes many violations of basic human rights and many deaths and unjust beatings and imprisonments, as well as oppression of half of the human race, do not represent mainstream Islam. When it is common knowledge that these practices are a part of everyday life for the populations of every Muslim-controlled country and region of the world, and since the vast majority of Muslims reside in these places, how can that be described as anything other than mainstream? Now, let us address further the issue of female modesty. First, why not also cover up the men in a like manner, since women also have active libidoes. This is either a powerplay, to make women the possessions of men, said doctrine, like all other religions’ holy writings, just oh-so-coincidentally favoring the gender of those who claimed to either have written them with divine inspiration or had it handed down to them. Men. The only other possible reason for this modesty inequity being that women in those countries are not being tempted because their genitalia have been mutilated, which Muslims roundly deny, despite widespread copious evidence that female genital mutilation is the norm rather than the exception. Also, how weak does it make Muslim men look? Very. You want to control the world, yet you cannot control your own libidoes? Do Muslim bakeries also cover up the doughnuts and cookies so Muslims won’t be tempted to get fat? Untold millions of men in non-Muslim countries live their entire lives, having been taught self-control since earliest childhood, without committing sexual attacks against females. It is men with the problem. Why should the women be the ones to pay the price for men’s weakness? Why should any woman have to wear the equivalent of a beekeeper’s outfit just because Muslim men have less self-control than a preschooler? I say, women should be subject to the same modesty standards as men, and the punishment for a man that succumbs to uncontrollable urges should be imprisonment and/or the forced injection of female hormones. Now THAT would be fair and equitable, and would definitely give possible violators pause. I guarantee it. I mean, if males who pride themselves on having the strength that derives from masculinity cannot even find the strength that the average “Infidel” possesses, then those males really aren’t men at all, now are they? And that is the truth. And let’s look as an example of a real man with iron self-control to Pope John Paul II. He went his entire life as a virgin, darn near impossible for ANY man. And this was one testosterone-packed fella. He was an athlete. He survived and thrived after having been shot. He soldiered on in the face of Parkinson’s and other ailments, including numerous bouts with cancer. And even on the very verge of death, that man found the inner strength to climb out of his deathbed and make personal appearances. Yet he managed to remain celibate, and didn’t demand that women cover themselves half so completely as the average Muslim woman in the Middle East is forced to cover and conduct herself. And if he could muster that degree of self-control in order not to deny females their God-given equal rights, then what is your excuse? And finally, how can Muslims think that the conflicts in the Middle East are the fault of non-Muslims? It is so obvious that this entire conflict was meticulously engineered by God himself to come to a certain pre-determined conclusion. You have Israel and Jews, which Muslims categorically deny are the “chosen people”.And they are, for some unfathomable reason, almost universally but especially by all Muslims, hated beyond all reason. yet, by “coincidence”, their one defender and protector just so happens to be the most rich powerful and militarily mighty superpower of all time. Then there’s the fact that the region that we are on some days seriously tempted to annihilate just happens to have the richest oil reserve in the world, which is basically the only reason we haven’t blown them to smithereens. Look at the intricacies of how things are balanced in just such a way and tell me it is not a purposefully engineered soap opera with a pre-determined chain of events. Like Saddam experiencing the humiliation of being shown in his underwear, after his years of raping and humiliating so many females, some things are just meant to be. So don’t try to lay it all on the “infidels'” laps.

  • Teeth Maestro |

    Dark Thunder – seems as if you still choose to “live for the fight” – I have read your detailed rebutal and with each and every logical argument that you try to present you simply refuse to UNDERSTAND – on one hand you try to speak with logical support then all of sudden you revert to hearsay comments. Beyond that – you still choose to have dis-respect for the religion, as I mentioned that if you plan to argue / convince it is advisable to have respect for the other side, without respect in your words you only irk the argument and it this is a waste of anyones time. If you choose to take on a fight and have the last say – then I withdraw and I can end the argument by simply saying OK you win. But if you desire to debate ”with respect” then continue to read…….

    It seems as if you still fail the understand the concept of 70 promised vrgins, as i mentioned earlier it does not actually exists. Muslims are promised (as per their sound belief) a 2nd life in heaven. Now I ask you to place yourself during the time the Quran was revealed to our Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) there was no modern day luxuries but only camels, milk, dates, and women which signified luxury. The heaven has been picturised for us in ”worldly” terms and we were categorically told that it is JUST a picturisation and heaven is far better then simple terms of 70 Womens or even never-ending rivers of Milk. I assure you Islam has a high regard for women, probably far more then any other religion in the world. The modern concept of women is a sex object, Islam sees her as a wise individual who is responsible for providing love and happiness to the new born child. Women are not sex objects and the heaven is not a full blown orgy.

    Muslims have been prohibitied from eating Pork or drink wine, you can rant all you want as to its taste, it is the fundamental belief that these items are prohibited and will remain so even if hell comes or not, is for our God Allah to decide. Simply said we choose to avoid consuming these to objects

    Prophet Jesus is too placed highly in the religion of Islam – we consider all Prophets from God as equal and Allah being the only superior being. I care not argue your attempt to logically place Jesus superior as we consider all Prohpets equal and the only superior being is Allah (or God -in chiristianity) I assume you are of chirstian belief, can I ask you why dont you pray to God directly instead of directing all your prayers to the Lord and asking him to plead for your forgivness.

    On your charge of sexual control for all the muslim clerics, There exists none, islamic preachers are thaught self control but are permitted to marry and also have sexual activites ONLY with their legal partner, No sexual absteince exists in Islam for any level of scholar. Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) was also married. I assure you sexual abstince is a tough task and can doubt with the same argument that you have used on Islam on all scholars of Christian faith who practice abstinece no wonder Gay priests have slowly become a huge controvery, the ice does break after sometime. Pope John Paul II was indeed a great person and would not shed even a shadow of doubt on such a great person.

    Your arguemnt about the atrocites of Saddam Hussein I may also second, he was brutal, he was a tyrrant, all said the US I feel stooped beyond saddam level of tyrancy by INVADING Iraq, they blamed WMD’s none existed, they labelled freedom to the Iraqis that was simply hogwash, The US invaders went in for a reason and that was simply oil. At this moment I feel the aggressors were the US and even till today the local population continues to defy the Invasion and no wonder US army personnel die every day and will continue to do so until they chicken shit out of Iraq.

    The ball is now in your court, If you continue to be disrespectful of other religions then dont care to argue, my first instinct on reading your long comment was not to respond but i decided otherwise, I thought that since you spent so much of an effort to write all this argument you at least deserved a decent response. All I ask, ALL I ASK is for you to be respectful. I can then try and answer your questions. Mind you I have repeatedly been respectful to your principles.

    Over to you

  • duckthunder2001 |

    Unbelievable! So typical. How convenient for you that every irrefutable logical argument I give on where your religion violates basic human rights you either completely ignore or refer to it as being disrespectful to that so-called religion. But that’s okay. I understand. You are in between a rock and a hard place. Your Quran says it is okay to lie to infidels because it is a holy war. Also you feel absolutely run over by the clarity and logic of my arguments against your unfair and evil religious beliefs and practices, knowing that you as a person haven’t the intelligence to rebut them, and that your religion has no defense against such violations. All that leaves you with to throw at me is the standard line, spoonfed to all Muslims from the cradle to the grave that says, “you are disrespecting my religion and I refuse to respond.” Every time I get into particulars with even the most “honest, fair, intelligent” Muslim, he skirts the main questions and the obvious truths, and regurgitates that old wornout line. You show me where I showed disrespect. The little asides I put in there about canadian bacon and algebra, I clearly kept them in a light tone and bracketed them with lol, which means laughing out loud. But it is apparent that, like every other Muslim, even the ones who claim to be highly educated, you haven’t the intelligence to distinguish between literal statements and humorous dialogue. In other words, you take everything and read it through the filter of a 4-year-old that takes everything literally, without either an understanding of subtleties or a sufficiently developed sense of humor. A huge part of Muslims’ problem is that they don’t know how to laugh at themselves the way all normal people do. And even still, I would have not included those little jokes about canadian bacon and algebra if you had not first acted like you were an exception to this, by the smiley faces you inserted in your last post. But it is now clear as glass that even in that aspect, you lie. And by the way, is taking the name duckthunder and changing it to darkthunder your idea of a biting yet subtle dig against me? Ha ha ha. If that is the strongest weapon you have among your intellectual artillery, you may as well go ahead and wave the white flag right now. Now, on to particulars. Here you go again, sidestepping the fact that most if not all of Muslims do indeed take literally the promise of 72 virgins. Which is ridiculous, since the fact that it promises virgins implies that there will be sex in heaven. Give me a break. First of all, sex is made for humans only, to encourage reproduction, and in Heaven people will not be in human bodily form. Second, who would dare have sex in the house of God? No way. And deny all you want, but the truth is that is exactly what Muslims believe, that there will be sex for them in Heaven. Now how stupid is that?!?!? Sidestepping the fact that the Quran itself, not hearsay, is the source of the Abu Baker, Muhammad, Aisha biography. When a Muslim says that that’s hearsay, then an “infidel” reads it straight to that Muslim from the Quran, the standard reply then becomes, “It is different in the original Arabic.” You say that there is no abstinence for Muslim clerics. Then you childishly, desperately try to divert by referring to gay priests that molest children. First, that represents only a small percentage of priests, the vast majority of the world’s priests remaining completely celibate, the proof being that if every or even most priests did what those few had done, it would have been exposed by now. And by the way, there is no scandal whatsoever that involves nuns, who are also celibate. None. That proves my point that it is men with the problem. Men with their inferior self-control. Yet it is the women that pay the price, having their most basic human rights violated because of mens weakness. You choose to ignore that point as well. And of course you skirt the issue of Islam being the only religion that countries follow where people are put to death for violations. Why do you choose to ignore these things? Because you have no justification, and the entire world knows these things go on. I would hardly call that hearsay. Female genital mutilation, honor killings, domestic abuse against women, imprisoning or stoning women to death for the sexual transgressions of men while giving the men involved a slap on the wrist, violating women’s parental rights, denying women medical care and access to education and freedom of movement, these atrocities and countless others taking place on an everyday basis in MAINSTREAM Muslim countries. Why don’t you stop lying? Why? Stop lying. You know you all are nothing but criminals, thugs who justify their atrocities with the use of a “holy” book. How can a religion that involves so much lying about its everyday practices to outsiders be considered the “one true religion”? And if the invasion of Iraq represents a war for oil, why do my gasoline prices keep going up and up and up? And if it was really a war for oil instead of a desire to eliminate Saddam Hussein, we wouldn’t even need to have soldiers over there. Who do you think has the greatest access to biological weapons? That’s right, the U.S. All we would have to have done if oil was our motive was to have a few civilians put some highly contagious, lethal disease among the population of Iraq, and they would have been dropping like flies and nobody would have been able to prove it was us who did it. You are so full of it. Much precious American blood was spilled so Iraq could have that election. And while we are pouring billions into giving freedom from religious oppression for them, our gas prices continue to rise and our financial resources continue to dwindle. So don’t go giving me that old crap about blood for oil. If there were any ulterior motives, those motives would be that George wanted to get revenge for his father’s failures in that region, and also because George wants to get a foothold in the Middle East to have greater access to all those countries that surround and threaten Israel, and that produce terrorists that threaten us. I notice that you are saying on shob’s blog that I have a dirty mouth. How convenient that you overlook your own remark about our troops and when they will “chickenshit out of Iraq.” Not to mention the nasty foul-mouthed utterances of shobz. And now for your warning. The oppressed, abused women of Islam will not tolerate your tyranny forever. One fine night, at a time of their pre-arranged choosing, when you are sleeping, they will finally rise up and administer true justice, stabbing all you thugs in the throat and ending once and for all the evil, Satan-inspired cult that is Islam. That will be a day of world jubilation unequalled in human history. The blood of my innocent murdered persecuted sisters cries out to me from the ground. Rest assured, you will pay for each drop of that innocent blood spilled. Oh, how you will pay. For every accidental death of a Muslim female in Iraq by U.S. soldiers, you Muslim men are responsible for thousands of murders of innocent Muslimahs. And if you think that by giving non-Muslims a bunch of lies about it, that is the end of the matter and you will not be held to accounts, boy, are you in for a surprise! Oh, there is a war, alright. But in your blindness you think it is a war between Muslims and non-Muslims. It is really a war between males and females. And we will ultimately prevail against you thugs, perverts, and bullies. We are smarter than you, more self-controlled, and more wily than you. Your day of reckoning is coming, and we will show no mercy. Disbelieve it at your own peril.

  • duckthunder2001 |

    Well, gee. Thanks for giving me permission that I don’t need. ROFLMAO

  • shobz |

    tm forget about him. let him write whatever he feels like. he has no hope. let him make his own conclusions. i think i should just ignore him as well.

  • Dennis |

    It is all pretense, that the American government was motivated to democratize Iraq for the sake of Iraqis, that the mujahadeen wants only to save Iraq from the infidels, that not all governments torture combatants, that terrorists act in the service of their god, that even the participants are aware of the bare struggle for wealth and power that underlie all of the “causes” being championed. and that not all of the spectators are merely choosing a champion for whom to cheer and so imagine an association, a membership in a club.
    Pass up the low-hanging fruit, resist the cultural entropy. Practice the Golden Rule, and treat others as you would be treated. Teach consideration for others, nuture understanding, supplant strife, earn peace and tend it carefully.

  • Sir john simon |

    I see u wanna up on the floor ilike u taken up taken up u alread know i wanna…………………………