The latest hot issue that has gripped Pakistanis and also the Muslim world is a sudden show of softness by Pakistan towards the Israeli nation culminating into a round of high level talks this past week in Turkey. A step taken by our unconstitutional-military-coop-no-shit-ruler President Pervaiz Musharraf seems to be quite revolutionary and this move can be labelled more so as a paradigm shift from the historical no-acknowledge-no-talk mentality for Israel that has been adopted by the Muslim world.
I am worried as this tactical move smells of some serious arm wrestling and ball-busting pressure by the US agencies in an attempt to arrange such an unprecedented meeting of two major giants. For Pakistan, I feel it in a way projects this country to the top of all Muslim countries, a stature which it lost over the past 30 years to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The question still remains to be seen, if this move will actually soften other muslim nations towards Israel. Worldwide there is tremendous emotional attachment towards the Palestinians in this ongoing struggle of land, will it have any affect on peoples emotions, will it actually result in softened heart, time will only tell, this I may agree Musharraf has played his ‘own’ cards perfectly ‘to save his own ass’ but is it actually the right move for the overall muslim effort, maybe the only good thing to come out of it could be more positive projection for Pakistan, but what about the emotions and feelings of millions of Muslims?
I, being quite outspoken of various political issues do always try to keep an open frame of mind so for this reason I would like to open this blog for discussion on this sensitive Pakistan-Israel topic. Do tell me how you feel about this issue be honest and try to support your arguments for all to see. All I ask is for you to be very careful when addressing religious issues and choose your words carefully trying to avoid insulting comments or remarks
Guidelines for Discussion – This is an open forum, talk openly but please refrain from using any insulting language against any religion, if any post or comment found in violation, I then reserve the right to edit/delete the offending comment at my discretion.
Comments
13 responses to “Pakistan – Israel Talks”
I, for one, don’t think there is anything wrong in holding talks with Israel, do we not hold talks with the enemy?! Agreed they are occupying the land which belongs to the people of Palestine, but that doesn’t mean we can’t talk to them and develop relations with them without changing our stance.
Can we also not recognize Israel, but dispute their geographic boundaries much in the same way we dispute India’s hold over Kashmir?
i agree with raz. there is nothing wrong with holding talks with israel. we have good relations with the US (which people consider to be the big Satan). if we can be friends with the US why cant we just go for a dialogue with Israel.(though i dont endoese what they have done.)
Here are the broad categories of reasons that are generally presented for not recognizing Israel.
1. Israel as occupier.
Other countries in this category: Morocco (occupying W Sahara), America (Iraq), India (Kashmir, at least in Pakistani rhetoric). De-recognize them all!!
2. Israel as dispossessor
Turkey and Iraq have historically done far worse to the Kurds. Pakistan dispossessed Hindus during Parition.
3. Israel as apartheid/racist state
This coming from a country where a non-Muslim can’t be President 🙂 How about Saudi Arabia?
4. Israel as colonial state.
See 1. Oh and I think Pak. “recognized” Britain 50 years ago. When the sun hadn’t completely set on the empire.
5. Israel as murderous(!) state.
Hmm. The Jordanian state has killed more Palestinians than Israel. Turkey has killed more Kurds. Syria has killed more Islamists.
This isn’t a defense of Israeli practices. But this list does reveal the hypocrisy of the Pakistani/Muslim position.
Of course, if one’s argument is based on “Jews can’t be trusted/betrayed Mohammed/protocols of the elders/resemble reptiles,” I have no answers.
Hullo Doc.
Well, I got another problem. As you can read on my blog I get mouth ulcers too dang often. And to a very severe extent. Cant even speak. Can you tell me what can be the reasons? And whats the natural way of their healing?
Raven – I understand the thought logic, and I would agree we Muslims/Pakistanis have created an aura of fabricated ideals which hinder us in our understanding of the world around us. Look at the history taught in schools in Pakistan, it is Pakistan Studies, where we are taught the Pakistani version of the Subcontinent breakup. Seems like world history does not deserve to be taught, the curricula of 7th grade to 12th grade is Pakistan Studies. The world we live in has a far more important historical aspect then pounding us the constant messages of hating India.
Today the Pakistan-wide strike called by the MMA is just another show of backward mentality, these mullahs will chill as soon as they are assured a hefty bank balance in exchange to shut-up seems like money has a way to change peoples ideals. Qazi Hussain Ahmed in this last week lambasted Musharraf’s dialogues with Israel saying “it is against the ideology of Pakistan” Ideology? When did Israel become our ideology – Last I heard the our ideology did not include Israel or the Jews?
Mullahs Chill it please….. these are just talks…. Yaappity Yappity Talks – That’s all, no need to call in the ideological
I always believe “Making an enemy a friend is the best way to prevail and try not to make your friends into enemies”.
Currently if you see the situation:
Pakistan’s relationship with Afghanistan are never strong where as India’s relationship with Afghanistan are too good.
Pakistan Iran Relationship will soon lag behind as India Iran relationships are becoming too strong due to many new agreements which is resulting in a huge profit for both the countries.
Indian and Chinese talks are giving incentive to india. Chinese will be sincere to anyone because their real battle is with America. India have cut one of its enemies down by extending a hand of friendship to China.
India’s relationship with Isreal is the most strongest.
Now considering all this, Pakistan is alone and will remain alone if we keep thinking with our knees. By talking to Israel we can easily cut our one enemy because no one has come to rescue Pakistan in difficult situations other than China. I cant say whether Israel will be sincere or not but Pakistan will gain more than it will lose by talking to Israel.
with regards
FM
Pakistan should do whatever is good for her own interests. Pakistan is for Pakistanis – not Palestinians. For a change, we Pakistanis should worry about ourselves instead of putting the whole world’s problems before our own problems.
I must say that when All Mighty Allah says in Quran that none of them can be our well wisher(friend) then how dare (musharaf or any one else) they are trying to do so.By doin this we may lose our trust on billions of Muslims borthers (US called terrorist). However i dont think that pakistan will get any achivemnets (accept getting some beg from US ).
THIS IS ME ASIF ALI aka Hassan Abbas Z, great topic and well said Doctor Saheb, about mullahs and hypocrats, also RAVEN is pretty much on the track, the thing is Moslems and Jews never were enemies and historically speaking in the medieval times the CRUSADERS always responded to the calls of Pope Urban II and Pope Bernard to get the muslim filth/infidels out of Jerusalem, they always slaughtered Jews before crossing borders towards muslim towns. The same British Celtics who mandated the Balfour Declaration in 1917/1918, in the cirsumstances when the Jewish population was 5% of Palestine and rest were Arabs. I recommend three books JOURNEY INTO THE HEART OF THREE FAITHS BY BRUCE FEILLER, JERUSALEM ONE CITY THREE FAITH AND HOLY WARS BY KAREN ARMSTRONG. As usual there was a third party to enjoy the fruits of blood shed, first crusade 40,000 muslim including women and children were slaughtered in just 2 days. Egypt was the strongest of all arab countries, Anwar El-Sadat sold out to Americans after 1973 war and stupidly thought that he can solve this problem all by himself not apying attention to the “Aftereffects” read Autumn of Fury by Mohammad Heikal.
So my dear friends, accept Israel or not, it is here and you can’t do nothing to wipe it out as “our ass is grass”. If you wish, i will give you the time line detials. Adios
Why is Israel so keen on getting Pakistan to aknowledge it’s existence,
well-before it can ‘officially’ accept it ?. What does Israel gain by it ?, and
what do we lose, if anything, in diplomatic terms ?.
The case of Israel is not unique. South Africa was identified as an Apar-
thied state and finally it got so bad that even the west had to blacklist it.
Why ?. Why couldn’t they do business as usual with the Afrikanas ?.
Because it was morally indefensible.
A regime, which oppresses and institutionally subjugates a whole class
of people on the basis of race (religion, etc) was found to be so reprehen-
sible, that you quit doing business with it, talking to it, visiting it, etc.The
boycott of South Africa brought the racist regime to it’s knees and finally
freed the black majority. Isolating evil, did eventually work.
Israel, by all accounts, has a more dismal and horrendous record in dea-
ling with the Palestinians and it’s neighbours (who out of fear and nece-
ssity have cowed down and recognised it).
What Israel has today, is Muslim self-respect and freedom. What it doesn’t
have, is our collective acquiescence. Our boycott, our diplomatic silence, is
the only international vehicle through which we can manifestly communicate
our displeasure (read embarrass) at Israeli actions, since we lack the will
and means to curb them.
Israel is a thriving economic powerhouse, alongwith having the strongest
military might outside US and Europe. It could be more. But it stands ostra-
cised by millions of it’s neighbours. That’s gotta hurt, both it’s pride and (in
the long run), wear away it’s conscience.
Pakistan, the only nuclear Muslim state, by aknowledging Israel at this time,
has ceded it’s moral high-ground that took decades of steadfastness to
cultivate. Pakistan might get a token prize for this, but it will (rightly) earn
the scorn of Muslims worldwide, not to mention erosion of its own self-respect.
A high price to pay, for an ignoble deed.
Why ?. And why particularly now ?.
I think before considering positive to israel on should realize forever that israel will never be ready to live in the limit .
You can use diplomacy for someone who is ready to take u a kind of person but for israel we are not . In the last ,i have this quote
if today Palitinian giveup their weapon their will be no violence in middle east but if israel give up their weapon their will be no isrealis
AssalaamuAlaikum to all irrespective of religion,
i must admit i feel so surprised to read the responses of fellow muslims. I ask you , two years on, what has Pakistan gained from the meeting? Aid? it still hungers for it, nuclear technology? nah!!! arms, ammunitions?..Israel is better off getting it ..NOT US!!!
Whole world knows about the deeds of the jews and yet when you talk about the recognition of tthe state of israel, you surely lack sense not only religious but historically, morally as well.
Mr.Raven has so kindly mentioned his own reasons for the non-recognition of israel, but fails to talk or give reason to the real issues at hand and those to come …whats more to come from israel is not peace for palestinians, as it boosts off so magnificiently. and all the aid the US has been giving to it is in the form of ammunitions to kill the palestinians who just have stones to fight back yet the innocent israeli jews claim they are in danger of attack from the palestinians…blah blah blah…too much to fool you right?
hope Allah gives guidance to everyone to see the difference between right and wrong.Ameen
Peace! hope you are all fine and happy. it is so easy to play a blame-game when we all have a destiny and an uncontrollable fate. i simply refuse from doing that. I love every peace-loving human-being irrespective of his/her religious background. However, everyone has a right to stop evil to spread and destroy the peace on earth. Whenever anyone of you wishes to find the real culprit behind the current global anarchy, STOP living in dreams and look at reality around yourself. I will give every sort of right to exist even to the SATAN (the greatest evil) so that I can prove my ANGELS/GODS right by defeating the Satan, not by shedding blood but via peaceful means of DIALOGUE and understanding each other’s point of view. I’d prefer to respect the EVIL/SATAN and talk if I have faith in my own beliefs/thoughts to be more powerful than EVIL/SATAN. And, finally, who knows, the ones whom I think of EVIL/SATAN today, might become angel for me tomorrow when I am ENLIGHTENED with the passage of time and thinking. I was different 10 years ago and I know I will be different from whatever I am today 10 years from now. Hence, I’d prefer to keep all of my options OPEN instead of CLOSING them into a dead-end-street. Islam is open-minded and open-discussion oriented religion and as per its own beliefs, nobody can be a true Muslim unless he/she is a good Christian or a Jew. Love and Peace to you all. Live and Let Live.