Whose God is Great? Another Carnage in Lahore

Guest Blog by temporal from Baithak Blog

Finally, at about 4 p.m., police and army commandos stormed the compound. Soon after that, a group of surviving attackers surrendered on the rooftop of the main building. Dozens of police celebrated their triumph by firing into the air and shouting, "God is great." [link]

The ides of March have been unsettling for Lahorites in Pakistan.

For the second time in March, gunmen attacked in broad daylight and by last count between 30 (UPI) and 50 (Al Jazeera) people were dead. The first time their target was the visiting Sri Lankan Cricket team. That attack raised security concerns and may have contributed to the IPL venue shift to South Africa.

This time the heavily armed gunmen attacked a Police Training school. There is no building safe in Pakistan anymore.

In the aftermath of Red Mosque (Lal Musjid) fiasco, the gunmen had attacked a commando training centre.

These terrorists are well trained, financed and organised and they pick their targets carefully. Some months back they killed a retired SAS general who headed action against them in FATA and Swat.

The attack began around 7:30 a.m., when several hundred trainees were doing exercises on a parade field. Witnesses said they heard a series of loud explosions and then panic erupted, with recruits running in all directions and trying to escape. "It was beyond terrible. They had so much ammunition with them and the explosions came so fast. Everyone was running for their lives," said Mohammed Irfan, 22, who joined the police six months ago. He escaped from the compound shortly after noon, but more than 30 other hostages remained trapped inside for several more hours. [link]

Rehman Malik, who heads the Interior Ministry and is responsible for security says, "It is a planned, organised, terrorist attack. This shows the extent to which the enemies of our country can go," Rehman Malik, the interior ministry chief, said. "The question is – from where they are getting grenades, guns and rocket launchers in such a large number?" he said. [link]

He has been making such statements after every act from Karachi to Gilgit, promising media the culprits or suspects caught are being interrogated and after the melee has died down, nothing comes out of the security agencies investigations.

Questions can be raised. Is there a big cover up going on? Has the ISI grown too large and cannot be curbed? Why are names of sponsors and patrons of these terrorists not coming forward?

Do these "enemies" of Pakistan include only India's RAW, or would he spread the net and include agent-provocateurs from Afghanistan, the US and Saudi Arabia too. The latter sponsors and supports religious institutions and political parties in Pakistan. but is barely mentioned as a possibility.

Rehman Malik wonders about from where these terrorists get their "grenades, guns and rocket launchers." Has he perhaps forgotten the abject surrender of thousands of army jawans, fully armed, in the FATA in the past years? The jawans are released after huge ransoms are paid, but the equipment stays back. Then there is the porous Pak Afghan border, and the hundreds of kilometers of coastal area in Balichistan.

Allah u Akbar (God is Great) shout the gunmen, the suicide bombers and the terrorists. Allah u Akbar shout the police and the Army. Kilings go on invoking His name. Somewhere out there, Allah is ostensibly not listening.


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104 responses to “Whose God is Great? Another Carnage in Lahore”

  1. Obaid Avatar
    Obaid

    Allah is listening all the time. It is us Muslims who are not listening to HIM.

    May Allah guide us towards a better future.

  2. Vaneet Kundra, India Avatar
    Vaneet Kundra, India

    These terrorists have no religion, caste or country. They are trained to kill and spread terror among common people. Commandos of both the countries should be professionaly trained to kill them within 3 seconds as Gen. Mushrraff had stated after the attack on Sri Lankan team, which was endorsed by a commando expert in India. we both lack that instant counter-offensive to kill them on the spot. Every soft target in both the countries should be equipped to retaliate instantly. A strong message should go to these terrorists that they cant escape until killed.

  3. temporal Avatar

    disagre vk:

    every effort should be made to catch them alive and then bring them to the courts for a fair trial before meting out their just punishment

    the reason is obvious

    with them, their leaders and organisations should also be exposed and brought to justice

    killing individuals would not lead to eliminating this cancer

  4. farrah, k.raja Avatar
    farrah, k.raja

    I agree with temporal .Also I would like to point out that

    US army convoys which were carrying shipment of various amunation has been attacked burnt and looted ,also a lot of US weapons,including uniforms,security jackets etc are available easily in the open Barrah market for anyone to buy.

    Crises after crises?it seems apparently the politicians are joined together Fazulur Rehman and NAwaz group are together.

    Recently goverenment has accepted Taliban rule in Swat and Nawaz is satisfied as well.

    Than still there is no peace and security in the country.It cannot be ISI.

    Without Pakistan they cannot survive,the need of the hour is all politicians,civilians and army fight aginst this together.

    We are not left with any options.

    Also please note recently two weeks ago a very young journalist of Dawn Group was murdered in the mobile snatching incident ,but it was a cover up as previously the same person had car accident but survived and despite the injuries he returned to work.

    This week another journalist from Islamabad has been murdered.

    Complete anarchy.Enemies of the state,clearly no one (politicians) has anything against these journalists.Than who is killing them?

    It seems freedom of expression is not liked by someone.

    Very serious questions are supposed to be asked perhaps the same one which were ignored at the assesination of Benazir.

    Are people ready to listen to the answers ?I think the answers are ,In The Line Of Fire.

  5. farrah, k.raja Avatar
    farrah, k.raja

    I am feeling so sad and grievance has taken over.How long does it take to see one's child to grow up and to do hard work and than to past Tests and finally one enters into the beggining of a carier.

    I am feeling so sad and sorrowful for everyone who have lost their loved ones.

    I am feeling deeply remorseful for all the policeman what is their future.

    Why bomb after bomb,why our military,police and youth is attacked in such a savage and brutal way?

    It is not a question of politics it is a question of survival of innocents.

    People who die in the line of duty ;why they must have to die is my question?

    Why police is targetted?

  6. dr.jawwadkhan Avatar
    dr.jawwadkhan

    ALLAH (swt) is extremely gracious and merciful.

    we are sinful violaters and head strong.

    HE gave us a country on one promise,we violated that intentionaly.

    he gave his blessings in the every possible material form to the people of pakistan to share with each other, we started looting it.

    He told us the stright path to the falah, every one of us deviated.

    we did every thing which invites the wrath of ALLAH(SWT) but HE ignored our sins and keep forgiving us.

    now 60 years have been passed,there is a limit for every thing.there must be limit of corruption,violation of HIS divine laws,there must be limit for "bharhwat geeri".

    these pimps type leaders is heading this nation towards disastor and complete chaos for more money for their bank accounts.

    see how these SOBs welcomed the obama decision for more attacks and more money.

    our rulers are the messangers of the devil.

    we should not complain to ALLAH(SWT) because we are the supporters of devils illigitimate children.

  7. SM Imran H Zaidi Avatar
    SM Imran H Zaidi

    Its sad to see our country burning in flames. Western media is predicting the demise of the Pakistani state. These politicians are doing nothing but fighting for power. Where will they go when the country isnt there? Take refuge in switzerland where their bank assets are? People should beat all these bastards to a pulp who have allowed the situation to get out of hand.

    jab tak inke apne ghar me aag nai lage gi inko pata nai lage ga… someone should really start fires in these politicians houses so they fix the mess they have created…

    We need to root out religious extremism and the killing which takes place in the name of Islam. These uneducated people do not know abc of Islam but portray themselves as its saviours. The west is doing a pretty good job of using these munafiqeen to weaken islam and portray it as a false religion. Its time to take a step towards unity as a state.

  8. Danial Burki Avatar
    Danial Burki

    Yet another brave attack by the glorious warriors of Islam.(Yes, Baitullah Mehsud has taken responsibility: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7973540.stm

    I wonder why these cowardly fucks never like to fight face to face in the open, even though they have better weapons than our police!

    @habib: The Dahrias of Pakistan are mourning the loss of young trainees who were willing to put their lives on the line to protect the citizens of this country. The only ones spilling the poison and the blood of the innocent are the 'pious' ones. So if condemning violence in the name of religion and kooky, medieval bullshit beliefs is 'poison', then I'm the deadliest fucking cobra you'll ever meet.

  9. Danial Burki Avatar
    Danial Burki

    Oh, and no one's 'god' is great: because it's all in their own heads.

  10. stupid man Avatar
    stupid man

    Baitulla, Rehman Malik, Zardari, Pervez Musharaf and Kiany, all of them are on US payroll. WHen Afia Siddiqi and hundreds others were sold by ISI, Kiayani was ISI Chief. Baituallh is like Osama of Pakistan. Zardari and Rehman Malik are directors of CIA.

    Allh….is wondering – and thinking what to do with this land of 'PURE' stupid men.

  11. Danial Burki Avatar
    Danial Burki

    Zardari and Malik are directors of CIA?

    Everyone's on the US payroll?

    Dear oh dear.

    What about Aafia Siddiqui having operated for the Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Liberia and the US? Is she on the US payroll too? What about her ex-husband who spilled the beans on the entire Aafia Siddiqui drama, is he on the US payroll too?

    Damn, what a massive drama! Thanks for opening my eyes to this conspiracy. It's all done by the Jews, Hindus, RAW, Mossad, CIA, Zionists, Secular Fascists, Elmo from Sesame Street and Musarrat Nazeer.

    The conspiracy runs real deep!

  12. temporal Avatar

    leave musarrat out of this danial

    least heard she was still searching for long-gawacha or some such thing

    😉

  13. Danial Burki Avatar
    Danial Burki

    And that, too, is a conspiracy!

  14. bulleyshah Avatar
    bulleyshah

    *Barrister* Chishti,

    I don't know what kind of barrister are you, you sound like shoabi bukhari, who wouldn't mind burning alive other barristers just because they opposed MQM.

    BTW, talking about Zia-era zombies, who else is Zia-era production?hmm, ahammmm, MQM????

    Nothing is going to change, earlier it was Mush-gang making the money and now its Zardari-Rehman Malik-gang running the cash register

  15. dr.jawwadkhan Avatar
    dr.jawwadkhan

    @danial burki

    @temporal

    i wonder what make an ordinary bee always sit on the shit?

    isn't this a divine diversity of ALmighty ALLEH (swt)that He made one kind of a bee to sit on flowers and extract the healing nourishment. and other kind to sit on shit and spread filth and disease?

    have you ever think of that?

  16. SM Imran H Zaidi Avatar
    SM Imran H Zaidi

    some conspiracy; everyones involved; the public too i guess… who can u trust then?

  17. RAJA Avatar
    RAJA

    Reading most of Comments i think everyone is concerned but don't what they are talking about.

    If we take facts for last one year since 'die mock racy ' has come attacks which were previously limited to western border has come to centre and targeting key areas exposing our selves

    Bait ullah Masood an FBI trained who is very much serving americans to show world a NUKE capable weak country.

    VOICE for independent provinces getting stronger

    Sounds familiar this al happened in Yogosalavia and after Afghan war.

    NOW in pakistan muslims and muslim extremists which are actually implants

    We people in indo pak has more love for our PEERS than Allah and his Rasool

    Until we know our Islam our selves we will be confused asking this shame full ques who's God is great is it my Allah or yours or if any at all.( istigfirullaha)

    Please do not accuse these politicians they are from us We fail to realise thats actually what we are.

    Our Mullahs are doing same job as POPE and priests did to christianity and look at christians now they even donot even know Adam was a prophet because priest didnot tell us.

    Look at u and me we can read write speak english some might do poetry but how many of us know ARABIC so we could understand if we recite quran.

    Point what I am trying to make is We have forgotten him( Allah) and he has forgotten us.

  18. dr.jawwadkhan Avatar
    dr.jawwadkhan

    @RAJA!

    great point

  19. readinglord Avatar
    readinglord

    No one's is great, but Allah in the 'Loudspeaker' (call LS),is great.

    "Tere diiwaane kam reh gaye

    Ahle deir-o-Haram reh gaye"

    Balkih

    'Ahle LS reh gaye'

  20. Sam Avatar
    Sam

    pretty soon taliban will take over and bring peace.

    Just like the peace & justice they brought to Afghanistan.

    After that, they can bring peace back again to Afghanistan.

    Saudi Arabia should give money to Taliban and recognize Swat as the only islamic part in Pakistan. rest of pakistan should follow Swat..

  21. Sam Avatar
    Sam

    remember after taliban took over in Afghanistan, violence went down, drug cultivation is eradicated…

    if they can do the same in Pakistan, that would bring relief to many people. After that using Pakistan as base (not just Swat) they are going to re-capture Afghanistan.

    America has to flee this region, just like they did in Vietnam.

  22. farrah k raja Avatar
    farrah k raja

    Zia,Talibaan ,USA ,Jihad and Extremism,voilence,failing politicians ,everything is a part of our present ,of our today.

    How do we move forward?What is the solution?Standing together: has Taliban grown bigger than Pakistan Army that is the question.

    If it has than half of the population must get ready to migrate to Iran,China or where ever.

    Because half of the nation would be slaughtered.Isnt that the mission of Afghan Mujahedeen,kill indiscriminately and essentially all Muslims.

    For past twenty years they are killing Afghnais to take hold of Afghanistan,Afghanis are Muslim .So Muslims of Pakistan should get ready to be slaughtered as well most tragically in the name of Islam.

    For Dr.Afia Siddiqui and Lal Masjid whole of Pakistan should be burnt.

  23. dr.jawwadkhan Avatar
    dr.jawwadkhan

    "Because half of the nation would be slaughtered.Isnt that the mission of Afghan Mujahedeen,kill indiscriminately and essentially all Muslims"

    no its an american mission and they are doing very well.

    taliban do not want to kill "all muslim"

  24. Habib Avatar
    Habib

    farrah k raja,

    You missed Mush in this list. If it wasn't him, we would have been better. All the trouble was only in Afghanistan and now Pakistan is like another Iraq.

    One day the drones would kill 20 people and next day there will be a retaliation against Pakistani Govt and this thing will go on and on.

    Before Mush pimped this nation we were still better off. We had corrupt leaders and we still have the same bag of shit.

    Did you miss the physics class? For every action there is a reaction.

  25. Danial Burki Avatar
    Danial Burki

    Actually, if the Khaled Shiekh Mohammed-trained lunatics hadn't conducted 9/11, we wouldn't be in this shit in the first place. The US would never have invaded Afghanistan (or even Iraq, as there would've been no justification for an expanded war on terror), and Musharraf, without US aid and patronage, would've withered away by 2003 or 2004 depending on domestic political circumstances. Further, this martyrdom bullshit that Al Qaeda uses for propaganda would not have emboldened all these in-bred jihadi monsters and they would've been a far smaller force than they are today.

    This brand of Islamism, since 1947, has been the worst enemy of Pakistan, and is eating this country inside out like a deadly virus.

  26. Danial Burki Avatar
    Danial Burki

    I don't have any brand of Islam, I'm a non-believer and secularist. And religion was a problem before 1947, too! Let's not forget, the mullahs OPPOSED the creation of Pakistan, and called Jinnah 'Kafir-e Azam' and a British agent. In fact, so many deobandi retards still call the father of this nation such words. Perhaps because Jinnah didn't want religion to pollute the state.

  27. SM Imran H Zaidi Avatar
    SM Imran H Zaidi

    Well if people are so blinded by the fact that taliban are killing none but muslims; may Allah help them. The blind support of these mujahideen by some of our people is what is causing all this mess. Instead of eradicating these extremist bastards; people support them morally and financially; which gives the west a chance to portray us a feeble nation unable to protect our basic human rights. Ask any westerner about Pakistan; and the first thing they'll ask is "Oh the place where the taliban get trained" Pretty shitty eh? We should be seeing american intervention on our soil pretty soon.

  28. RAJA Avatar
    RAJA

    Dear Danial,

    GOOD NEWS

    You are not the only one who has these feeling s of being non believer, secularist our establishment is full of it and this not new Your history stopped at 1947 but your ancestors goes back to Noah (pbuh).

    But it did has only one effect on Islam i.e progressing for last 1400 yrs.

    We all have to realise Nothing is wrong with islam but how people like u who are trying to corrupt it And I will be surprised if this so called Taliban has not have people like u. ……….surprise……. NO

    These are same as those Munafiqs( yahood) Muslims who had always caused trouble to Mohammed pbuh and even attacked him.

    No Muslim will attack/kill another muslim or blast Masjid.

    AN advise do not critisize Islam without knowing it.

    Again I say Know ur Islam ur self and than no one will be able to confuse u distract u.

    Easiest solution to this problem is that we should bring sharia into pakistan and if taliban/america still interferes than we will be morally strong insahlallah to fight them as a nation,

  29. temporal Avatar

    first a shay'r

    Ghafoor oos ko samajhtay haiN, tujh ko kiya wa'aez?

    sawaab kertay haiN hum ya gunah kertay haiN

    now a thought on the "support" for these "muslims" killing other "innocent" muslims

    why is the Soodi Umrikan financial support for these fringe groupsnot discussed?…

    if at all, the MSM (main styream media) talking heads hint at RAW, afghanistan, russia, india, even iran and others…but the Soodis escape serious scrutiny… why?

    is it because they spread their largesse all over — including the fringe-cuckoos, the talking heads, political parties, govt. policy makers, leader, army?

  30. dr.jawwadkhan Avatar
    dr.jawwadkhan

    har koee mast may e zoq e tan asani hey

    tum musalman ho? yeh andaz e musalmani hey?

    the great news. saudis are also involved in the detirioration of law and order in pakistan.

    to gain what??

    i wonder what happened to the great debunkers of conspiracy theories of the 21 st centuries?

  31. Chris Hayes Avatar
    Chris Hayes

    saudis are also involved in the detirioration of law and order in pakistan.

    to gain what??

    >>>>>>>>>>

    Traditionally it was to gain support overseas for their own docterins and to export their own extremists so they can't cause problems in Saudi.

  32. Reasoner Avatar
    Reasoner

    @dr. jawwadkhan

    It's really unfortunate for us as an independent nation that almost 62 years years have lapsed since Pakistan got independence, however we have yet to decide whether founding fathers of this country wanted a secular Muslim state or an Islamic state ?

    On his election as the first President of the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, Mr. Muhammad Ali Jinnah (Quaid-i-Azam) delivered the following Presidential Address to the assembly at Karachi on 11 August 1947. It is in this speech that the famous words occur, which have often been quoted by those who favor Pakistan as secular state: "You may belong to any religion or caste or creed – that has nothing to do with the business of the State…"

    After reading this speech it becomes very clear that Father of the Nation Quaid-i-Azam wanted Pakistan to be a modern, progressive and secular state. Where all the citizens irrespective of their caste or creed would have equal rights. Where mullahs wouldn't be allowed to drag religion in politics. Where even a Hindu or Christian citizen might have chance to become head of state.

    Alas, it's not the case in Pakistan now. Religious minorities are treated as second class citizens. They are not allowed to become either head of government or state. Pakistani state even ex-communicated Ahmedis and declared them as non-Muslims !

    I wish if we had followed guiding principles clearly elaborated by Quaid-i-Azam in following speech !

    Presidential Address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan at Karachi

    August 11, 1947

    Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen!

    I cordially thank you, with the utmost sincerity, for the honor you have conferred upon me – the greatest honor that is possible for this Sovereign Assembly to confer – by electing me as your first President. I also thank those leaders who have spoken in appreciation of my services and their personal references to me. I sincerely hope that with your support and your co-operation we shall make this Constituent Assembly an example to the world. The Constituent Assembly has got two main functions to perform. The first is the very onerous and responsible task of framing our future constitution of Pakistan and the second or functioning as a full and complete sovereign body as the Federal Legislature of Pakistan. We have to do the best we can in adopting a provisional constitution for the Federal Legislature of Pakistan. You know really that not only we ourselves are wondering but, I think, the whole world is wondering at this unprecedented cyclonic revolution which has brought about the plan of creating and establishing two independent sovereign Dominions in this sub-continent. As it is, it has been unprecedented; there is no parallel in the history of the world. This mighty sub-continent with all kinds of inhabitants has been brought under a plan which is titanic, unknown, unparalleled. And what is very important with regard to it is that we have achieved it peacefully and by means of an evolution of the greatest possible character.

    Dealing with our first function in this Assembly, I cannot make any well-considered pronouncement at this moment, but I shall say a few things as they occur to me. The first and the foremost thing that I would like to emphasize is this – remember that you are now a sovereign legislative body and you have got all the powers. It, therefore, places on you the gravest responsibility as to how you should take your decisions. The first observation that I would like to make is this: You will no doubt agree with me that the first duty of a government is to maintain law and order, so that the life, property and religious beliefs of its subjects are fully protected by the State.

    The second thing that occurs to me is this: One of the biggest curses from which India is suffering – I do not say that other countries are free from it, but, I think, our condition is much worse – is bribery and corruption. That really is a poison. We must put that down with an iron hand and I hope that you will take adequate measures as soon as it is possible for this Assembly to do so.

    Black-marketing is another curse. Well, I know that black-marketeers are frequently caught and punished. Judicial sentences are passed or sometimes fines only are imposed. Now you have to tackle this monster which today is a colossal crime against society, in our distressed conditions, when we constantly face shortage of food and other essential commodities of life. A citizen who does black-marketing commits, I think, a greater crime than the biggest and most grievous of crimes. These black-marketeers are really knowing, intelligent and ordinarily responsible people, and when they indulge in black-marketing, I think they ought to be very severely punished, because they undermine the entire system of control and regulation of foodstuffs and essential commodities, and cause wholesale starvation and want and even death.

    The next thing that strikes me is this: Here again it is a legacy which has been passed on to us. Alongwith many other things, good and bad, has arrived this great evil – the evil of nepotism and jobbery. This evil must be crushed relentlessly. I want to make it quite clear that I shall never tolerate any kind of jobbery, nepotism or any influence directly or indirectly brought to bear upon me. Whenever I will find that such a practice is in vogue or is continuing anywhere, low or high, I shall certainly not countenance it.

    I know there are people who do not quite agree with the division of India and the partition of the Punjab and Bengal. Much has been said against it, but now that it has been accepted, it is the duty of everyone of us to loyally abide by it and honorably act according to the agreement which is now final and binding on all. But you must remember, as I have said, that this mighty revolution that has taken place is unprecedented. One can quite understand the feeling that exists between the two communities wherever one community is in majority and the other is in minority. But the question is, whether it was possible or practicable to act otherwise than what has been done. A division had to take place. On both sides, in Hindustan and Pakistan, there are sections of people who may not agree with it, who may not like it, but in my judgment there was no other solution and I am sure future history will record its verdict in favor of it. And what is more it will be proved by actual experience as we go on that was the only solution of India's constitutional problem. Any idea of a united India could never have worked and in my judgment it would have led us to terrific disaster. May be that view is correct; may be it is not; that remains to be seen. All the same, in this division it was impossible to avoid the question of minorities being in one Dominion or the other. Now that was unavoidable. There is no other solution. Now what shall we do? Now, if we want to make this great State of Pakistan happy and prosperous we should wholly and solely concentrate on the well being of the people, and especially of the masses and the poor. If you will work in co-operation, forgetting the past, burying the hatchet, you are bound to succeed. If you change your past and work together in a spirit that everyone of you, no matter to what community he belongs, no matter what relations he had with you in the past, no matter what is his color, caste or creed, is first, second and last a citizen of this State with equal rights, privileges and obligations, there will be no end to the progress you will make.

    I cannot emphasize it too much. We should begin to work in that spirit and in course of time all these angularities of the majority and minority communities, the Hindu community and the Muslim community – because even as regards Muslims you have Pathans, Punjabis, Shias, Sunnis and so on and among the Hindus you have Brahmins, Vashnavas, Khatris, also Bengalees, Madrasis, and so on – will vanish. Indeed if you ask me this has been the biggest hindrance in the way of India to attain the freedom and independence and but for this we would have been free peoples long long ago. No power can hold another nation, and specially a nation of 400 million souls in subjection; nobody could have conquered you, and even if it had happened, nobody could have continued its hold on you for any length of time but for this. Therefore, we must learn a lesson from this. You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed – that has nothing to do with the business of the State. As you know, history shows that in England conditions, some time ago, were much worse than those prevailing in India today. The Roman Catholics and the Protestants persecuted each other. Even now there are some State in existence where there are discriminations made and bars imposed against a particular class. Thank God, we are not starting in those days. We are starting in the days when there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State. The people of England in course of time had to face the realities of the situation and had to discharge the responsibilities and burdens placed upon them by the government of their country and they went through that fire step by step. Today, you might say with justice that Roman Catholics and Protestants do no exist; what exists now is that every man is a citizen, an equal citizen of Great Britain and they are all members of the Nation.

    Now, I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.

    Well, gentlemen, I do not wish to take up any more of your time and thank you again for the honor you have done to me. I shall always be guided by the principles of justice and fairplay without any, as is put in the political language, prejudice or ill-will, in other words, partiality or favoritism. My guiding principle will be justice and complete impartiality, and I am sure that with your support and co-operation, I can look forward to Pakistan becoming one of the greatest nations of the world.

    I have received a message from the United States of America addressed to me. It reads:

    I have the honor to communicate to you, in Your Excellency's capacity as President of the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, the following message which I have just received from the Secretary of State of the United States:

    On the occasion of the first meeting of the Constituent Assembly for Pakistan, I extend to you and to the members of the Assembly, the best wishes of the Government and the people of the United States for the successful conclusion of the great work you are about to undertake.

    Soucre: Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah, Speeches and Statements as Governor General of Pakistan 1947 – 48.

    Published (1989) by Government of Pakistan, Ministry of Information & Broadcasting, Directorate of Films & Publications, Islamabad

  33. dr.jawwadkhan Avatar
    dr.jawwadkhan

    export their own extremists?

    THEY KILL WHEN THEY FOUND ANY TERRORIST.

    extremist vanishes from the public and no one knows where they gone.

    there is absolutely no need for exporting the extremist and jeopardising thier support in muslim countries.

    "they do not care about any one when it comes to their own internal affairs"

    yes they give the vip treatment and luxurious gifts to the dignitaries but it is unjust to bring them in the category of the countries like america,afghanistan,india and iran.

    THEY NEVER GO AGAINST THE WILL OF THE ESTABLISHMENT OF ANY MUSLIM COUNTRY.

  34. Reasoner Avatar

    @ dr.jawwadkhan

    Could you please give us a precise definition of "Islamic social democracy" ???

  35. Hakeem Avatar
    Hakeem

    Reasoner,

    We don't regard Jinnah as our Prophet and we don't worship Jinnah. Jinnah wanted Pakistan a secular state or not, DOES NOT MATTER. We follow our prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.W) and nothing is better than the Deen of Allah, Islam.

  36. Hakeem Avatar
    Hakeem

    Secularism at its best:

    Romania weighs decriminalizing consensual incest

    "If brothers and sisters want to have fun, why should they be imprisoned? It is nobody's business what I do in my bedroom," Ionut Breazu of Cluj told the Associated Press.

    "(Why are they) arresting people for what they do in their own homes, as long as they're adults and they're not hurting each other?" she asked.

    read the whole story at:
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/

    I guess the people who are insisting on Pakistan to be secular have no problem if there sister and dad have consensual sex

  37. dr.jawwadkhan Avatar
    dr.jawwadkhan

    isn't that pity that you people do not have any thing more except the presidential speech of quaid e azam to the legislative assembly, which ironically having the spirit of "suleh hudabia" not having any contradiction to the teaching of islam.

    Even if I agree with the notion that his address literally means that the secularism would be the state business then what about his whole life. his speeches, his interviews and the whole movement of independence which is based on 2 nation theory?

    Should we negate all and accept only his address to the legislative assembly according to the meaning suggested by you people?

    Don’t you think that you brought that greatest leader of the 20th century in the same category of zardari and musharraf ? who say some thing and do contrary to what they said.

    No my dear quaid e azam’s life is free from this kind of discrepancies.

  38. dr.jawwadkhan Avatar
    dr.jawwadkhan

    "ISLAMIC SOCIAL DEMOCRACY"

    it is extremely difficult to define in few sentences it can only be explained in details. yes i can give you the detail according to my own understanding even though i am not the expert in the political science.

    why you are asking that question? are you honestly interested in any thing which is islamic by any mean?

    or you just want to get an opportunity to criticize

  39. dr.jawwadkhan Avatar
    dr.jawwadkhan

    i do not agree with him.however looking the results of the democracy in pakistan i can understand why he said that democracy is haram.

  40. farrah k raja Avatar
    farrah k raja

    I think the question posed here was of our existance,of our security ,But Alhamdu Lillah like a posh Roman society we end up to discuss and debate each time on Islam and Secularism and democracy and what not?

  41. dr.jawwadkhan Avatar
    dr.jawwadkhan

    its really unfortunate.to discuss these things after 60 yrs of our independence.those things have already been decided.

    there should be no question about islam and democracy.

  42. Danial Burki Avatar
    Danial Burki

    But Dr Jawad, Sufi Muhammad, leader of the TNSM and voice of the brave warriors of Islam, says democracy is haram.

  43. Danial Burki Avatar
    Danial Burki

    But Sufi Muhammad doesn't say this based on Pakistan's experience, he says democracy is haram anyway. And those with the guns agree with him. So when the Talibanistan you're dreaming of actually comes into being (I hope not), THAT is the principle that will be followed. Have fun!

    Also, democracy puts sovereignty in the people. Islam puts sovereignty with God. How can the two be reconciled?

  44. farrah k raja Avatar
    farrah k raja

    “I guess the people who are insisting on Pakistan to be secular have no problem if there sister and dad have consensual sex ”

    Just thinking what sort of mind set can produce such sickening images.It shows a sick outlook not on democracy but about human nature.

    It means human beings are all animals and they cannot raise above themselves.

    Is Secularism and Democracy different thing though??

  45. farrah k raja Avatar
    farrah k raja

    from todays The News;the editorial goes;

    Thursday, April 02, 2009

    The situation in Dir remains tense, three days after a clash between militants and police resulted in five deaths. The police had been attempting to rescue a bank officer kidnapped by the militants. The district police officer and a former nazim were among those killed. There is, as yet, no clue as to the safety of the bank official; we do not know if he is dead or alive.

    ——

    Openion section goes like this:

    Anjum Niaz

    Enough! Bring Baitullah Mehsood to justice. If you can't, ask America to do it. And silence! All you handwringing hypocrites accusing Pakistan of killing its own people. Shame on you for being two-faced. These tribal thugs are destroying us and you say we should let them?

    ——-

  46. farrah k raja Avatar
    farrah k raja

    From Dawn News Today:

    On the same day, there were press reports of a militant ban on women going shopping in parts of Swat and of warnings to close down CD shops. A few days earlier, a huge explosion in a Jamrud mosque killed and injured more than 200 people. There is panic in the air, even though we have become inured to gory sights.

    After the peace arrangement, Swat does not really appear as part of the Pakistani state. It has passed into the hands of the Taliban. It is, to all intents and purposes, a Taliban state and this hard reality should sink into the minds of our ruling elite.

    —–

    Mehsud, accused of orchestrating a string of attacks in Pakistan from the Waziristan region on the Afghan border, warned on Tuesday that Washington may be attacked for offering $5 million for information leading to his location or arrest.

    ‘He normally doesn't issue hollow threats,’ said retired Brigadier Mehmood Shah, a former chief of security in militant-plagued northwest Pakistan.

    Over the past few years, Mehsud has risen from obscurity to become Pakistan's most notorious militant commander, blamed for the 2007 assassination of former prime minister Benazir Bhutto.

    Because of his attacks and leadership qualities, al Qaeda was increasingly dealing directly with him, Shah told Reuters.

    ——It seems their God is Great because they have the bullets.

  47. Habib Avatar
    Habib

    farrah k raja,

    This opinion and the editorial are written by *Kaley Angrez*.

    Which justice system? Which punishes the people without proof? Where almost all the judges have a price? Where one day Shareef Govt is disolved and when ordered by our Masters, its reinstated at once? Please tell me the name of the country where this exists. Don't say Pakistan, please.

  48. Habib Avatar
    Habib

    Farrah k raja,

    Read this. This is the justice and security provided by our "SECULAR" leadership in Karachi, Pakistan. Please note, its not FATA…Its KARACHI, run and administered by a Secular Government of PPP and MQM and ANP.

    or go to the link directy:
    http://zagtalk.surferzag.com/?p=701

    In August 2008 I was living in a rented upper portion in DHA, Phase V on Street 13 off Kh-Muhafiz, where my wife and myself, both 30 year old professionals, lived. The landlord, his wife and three kids lived in the lower portion. There were no servants or guards that lived in the house.

    On the night of the 9th or 10th of August me and my wife were returning home from a friends wedding. On the way home we crossed Marina Club and I pointed out to my wife how silly it was for families and couples to be parked at the waterfront at such a late hour with no lights on. As far as I was concerned these people were just looking for trouble and setting themselves up to get robbed.

    It was about half past midnight when we got to our gate, and oddly enough we had electricity in the area. I stopped the car in front of the gate, but left the engine running. I got out of the car and walked the six or seven steps to the gate. I’d already fully opened the gate and was walking back to the car when a white corolla pulled up, the driver window opened and a pistol pointed at me. The driver was the animal that has now been identified as Ali Hajiano.

    When I saw the pistol, the first thought that went through my mind was “oh shit” and I quickly thought of the things I was likely to lose – my wallet, my cell phone (a Nokia N91), my wife’s cell phone (a brand new HTC Touch) and maybe, possibly, my car, a silver Vitz. Both cell phones were in one front pocket of my pants, and my wallet was in my back pocket. As we were coming back from a wedding, I was wearing a suit with a tie and my wife was wearing fancy clothes, but no jewelry apart from her wedding ring. I expected a robbery lasting one minute or less, and anticipated giving my cell and wallet away and then seeing the car drive off in a quick rush. In my mind I quickly wondered if I could somehow keep the HTC Touch hidden as it was really slim and not very visible, and decided that I would at least try. The thought of losing my life entered my mind for just a second so I said a quick Kalima and asked Allah to forgive my sins -just in case. Once that was done, losing my life didn’t really worry me all that much.

    Hard to believe that so many thought went through my mind in two seconds, but thats exactly what happened as I stood staring at the pistol staring back. The situation on the ground was that the house gate was open and a bit of a triangle had formed. I was standing directly in front of the gate with my back towards the house. The white corolla was about 8 feet away, a little to the left. My own car was about 6 feet away on my right. Both the cars had about 10 feet between them. A quick calculation told me that I had no chance of running to my car, getting in and driving off without being shot dead.

    Ali Hajiano again waved the pistol at me and asked me to approach him. His conversation was in Urdu, but I’ll translate it for the ease of the reader. He simply said “empty out everything” at which I reached into my back pocket, grabbed my wallet and handed it over to him. Without being asked I also put my hand into my left pocket and took out my Nokia N91, but was careful to leave the HTC Touch untouched. He took my wallet and put it on his dashboard, had a look at my Nokia and handed it back to me saying “you can keep this”. I guess it wasn’t up to his standard. Deciding to act unafraid, I asked him if I could have my NIC and driving license back if he didn’t need it. He asked me how much money was in the wallet, I replied that I wasn’t sure but around two or three thousand. He looked through the wallet, took out all the cash and then handed the wallet back to me. I breathed a sigh of relief, thinking that I’d gotten off easy and cheap.

    I turned to walk away when Hajiano said “Not so fast, slowly walk to your car and sit inside”. Oh shit I thought, this isn’t over yet. I went and sat in the car and told my wife to stay calm. Hajiano came over to my side and pointed the pistol at me again. His bitch, who we now know as the mechanic Umair, walked around the car to stand at the passenger side window where my wife sat. They again asked us for valuables but we didn’t have any so we told them that. My wife had dropped her wedding ring on the car floor, and her cell was in my pocket but not visible. Umair started checking the various compartments of the car on the passenger side while Hajiano started to check the compartments on my side. When he patted the pocket with both the mobiles he asked me what was in the pocket. I told him it was my mobile and took out the N91, again leaving the HTC inside. I handed it over to him and said, “I already told you I only have this mobile, you can have it”.

    He took the mobile, highly annoyed, and threw it as far as he could down the road saying “what am I supposed to do with this?” They could not understand how we were dressed for a wedding but had didnt have any jewelry. I explained to him how we’d been robbed a month before and lost all our jewelry.

    Hajiano asked what valuables we had in the house and I assume he meant to ask about jewels and cash. My wife didn’t understand and started to tell him about the TV, VCR, DVD player, Fridge, AC etc. That was actually amusing. He asked again, this time specifying that he was asking about cash and gold. I told him that we didn’t have anything like that in the house, but if he wanted he could take the house key, go inside and take whatever he wanted. In the meantime Umair tried to grab my wife’s hand and feet to check for gold. She started shouting and slapping his hand which made him a bit apprehensive so he stood back. Hajiano then said that he’d go up to the house to check for valuables but he wanted to take my wife upstairs to show him where they were. I had never heard about the white corolla case till that time so I was a bit startled. I assumed it was just to threaten me, I had no idea that he was really a rapist. But even then I knew fully well what

    animals men become when alone with a woman so I absolutely put my foot down.

    I told Hajiano “She’s not going anywhere. You can take the house keys and go upstairs yourself. If you want the car, you can take the keys and we’ll just walk away. If you want money, we’ll go to the ATM and give you money”. He tried to negotiate with her to go upstairs again and again but I held my ground. Finally he got irritated and told Umair “take the girl out” then he said to me “We’re taking the girl, when you have money you can contact us”. Umair said “Now we’ll take the girl and you can go lodge an FIR”

    This was fast turning into a nightmare. My mind suddenly flooded with ideas and thoughts about what I should do. Should I let them go easily and then try to follow them? No way. If I let them take her, I should just as well go upstairs and go to sleep and forget that I ever had a wife. There was no way I was going to let them take her. At the same time I remember clearly praying to God “God, if this is a test or a punishment, I’m sorry for my mistakes, please stop this right now”. I grabbed my wife’s hand and said “dont go”, then I turned around to Hajiano and said “She’s not going anywhere”.

    Umair had by this time told my wife to get out of the car. When she refused he showed her the gun and said “It’s real” and then just to drive the point home he took out the magazine and showed her the bullets. She refused to budge so he grabbed her hand and started pulling her out physically. Hajiano started thrusting the pistol in my face and screaming “I’ll blow your brains out, you want to die?” I turned to Hajiano and said “Don’t do this, we’ve given you everything, we don’t have anything else, if you want you can follow us to the ATM, I can give you another 20,000″. He replied by telling me to shut up and smacking the revolver on the back of my head.

    I’m a pretty big guy, 5′10″ in height and 100 kg in weight. He probably felt he needed to subdue me so he started hitting me repeatedly on the head and neck with the pistol butt. Some hits were bearable big thuds, but at time when the metal hit my skull I would see stars. While I was getting smashed on the head Umair kept trying to pull my wife out. Thankfully she was resisting and kept telling him to let go in a loud voice, but not a scream. He realized he was not strong enough to pull her out with one hand so he passed his pistol over the roof of the car to Hajiano and then grabbed her wrist with both his hands. At that moment my blood started to curl and desperation set in as the adrenaline rushed and pumped. I thought about smashing the door open and hoped it would knock Hajiano down long enough for me to overpower him. But the constant pistol butt blows to my head kept that thought from evolving into anything concrete.

    Umair had by now managed to pull my wife out of the car and was dragging her to the back of the car to put her in the corolla. My wife realized that Umair was without a pistol and at that point she stopped talking loudly and started screaming. Thank God she was in her senses and did just the right thing. Along with screaming she sat down on the road to make it harder for Umair to drag her. Sensing that things were not going smoothly Hajiano started to yell at him to hurry up. Then he sensed that things we’re getting out of control so he gave an extra hard blow of the pistol butt to the back of my head. That hit actually turned out to be a blessing in disguise because it hit me so hard that my head flew forwards and hit the steering wheel, causing the horn to blare. I realized the value immediately and the next time he hit me I again banged my head into the horn, this time on purpose – He stopped hitting me immediately and instead shoved the pistol barrel

    on to my temple.

    Hajiano knew the horns and the screams would attract attention. He stepped backwards till he reached and sat down in his car but kept the pistol pointed at me and screamed at Umair to hurry up. I realized that he was gone so I raised my head and looked in the passenger side rear view mirror to see my wife sitting on the road, pulling herself away while Umair tried to drag her to the corolla. At that point in time I decided that there was no way in hell that I was going to let my wife go while I was alive. The car was still on and I decided that if Umair managed to drag my wife to the back of the car I would put the car in reverse and run him over. I realized that possibly my wife would get run over too but I thought that it was a better option for me to run her over and take a chance on killing her than to let her be taken, assaulted and then killed for sure. I also realized that Hajiano had his gun pointed at me but I figured that at ten feet I at least had a chance. My mind replayed the course of events that I wanted to do – reverse car, run over Umair, put car in first gear, point car at corolla and ram him as hard as possible. In my mind I was hoping this would give my wife enough time to run away while taking away Hajiano’s ability to chase her in a car. I also hoped that if I rammed his car hard enough and survived, I might dazzle him long enough to get out of my car and attack him myself.

    While these thoughts played in my mind, my wife kept screaming loudly. Umair had managed to pull her to the back tyre. It was almost time to put the car in reverse and risk both her and my life. La-ila-ha-ill-Allah… and just then the miracle happened. Hajiano screamed to Umair “Let her go, lets go! Quickly!” He must have decided that the encounter had lasted too long, and too much noise had been made. Umair was only too happy to hear the order, he let go of her immediately and ran to the corolla. My wife got up just as quickly and came back into the car, sat on the front passenger side and locked her door. Hajiano screamed at us to keep our heads down. I told my wife to keep as far down as she could, and bent over, but in a way that I could see out as well. I saw the corolla drive by and quickly sat up. I tried to read the number plate but couldn’t.

    I put the car in gear, just incase they came back and I needed to race off but they didn’t. When I saw their car lights leave the street I quickly put the car into the porch and locked the gates. We ran into the house and locked the doors. I left my wife upstairs and told her to keep the doors locked no matter what. Then I ran downstairs, checked left and right from the gate and ran over to where my mobile had been thrown. Picked it up and ran upstairs again, making sure to lock the gates and doors on the way.

    We didn’t bother reporting the matter to the police. One of my wife’s poorer distant relatives was a police constable in Karachi and we told him. He replied that the attackers could have been policemen themselves. We’d also heard enough tales of policemen turning thugs at night and of policemen that took money from thugs to give them information. Our friends warned us that telling the police would invite even more trouble. Over the next few days we started hearing more stories of the white corolla. Whenever they were mentioned people would tell their own stories or stories of people that they knew. That’s the first time I realized that the white corolla people were notoriously well known in Karachi.