Guest Blog by temporal from Baithak Blog
Finally, at about 4 p.m., police and army commandos stormed the compound. Soon after that, a group of surviving attackers surrendered on the rooftop of the main building. Dozens of police celebrated their triumph by firing into the air and shouting, "God is great." [link]
The ides of March have been unsettling for Lahorites in Pakistan.
For the second time in March, gunmen attacked in broad daylight and by last count between 30 (UPI) and 50 (Al Jazeera) people were dead. The first time their target was the visiting Sri Lankan Cricket team. That attack raised security concerns and may have contributed to the IPL venue shift to South Africa.
This time the heavily armed gunmen attacked a Police Training school. There is no building safe in Pakistan anymore.
In the aftermath of Red Mosque (Lal Musjid) fiasco, the gunmen had attacked a commando training centre.
These terrorists are well trained, financed and organised and they pick their targets carefully. Some months back they killed a retired SAS general who headed action against them in FATA and Swat.
The attack began around 7:30 a.m., when several hundred trainees were doing exercises on a parade field. Witnesses said they heard a series of loud explosions and then panic erupted, with recruits running in all directions and trying to escape. "It was beyond terrible. They had so much ammunition with them and the explosions came so fast. Everyone was running for their lives," said Mohammed Irfan, 22, who joined the police six months ago. He escaped from the compound shortly after noon, but more than 30 other hostages remained trapped inside for several more hours. [link]
Rehman Malik, who heads the Interior Ministry and is responsible for security says, "It is a planned, organised, terrorist attack. This shows the extent to which the enemies of our country can go," Rehman Malik, the interior ministry chief, said. "The question is – from where they are getting grenades, guns and rocket launchers in such a large number?" he said. [link]
He has been making such statements after every act from Karachi to Gilgit, promising media the culprits or suspects caught are being interrogated and after the melee has died down, nothing comes out of the security agencies investigations.
Questions can be raised. Is there a big cover up going on? Has the ISI grown too large and cannot be curbed? Why are names of sponsors and patrons of these terrorists not coming forward?
Do these "enemies" of Pakistan include only India's RAW, or would he spread the net and include agent-provocateurs from Afghanistan, the US and Saudi Arabia too. The latter sponsors and supports religious institutions and political parties in Pakistan. but is barely mentioned as a possibility.
Rehman Malik wonders about from where these terrorists get their "grenades, guns and rocket launchers." Has he perhaps forgotten the abject surrender of thousands of army jawans, fully armed, in the FATA in the past years? The jawans are released after huge ransoms are paid, but the equipment stays back. Then there is the porous Pak Afghan border, and the hundreds of kilometers of coastal area in Balichistan.
Allah u Akbar (God is Great) shout the gunmen, the suicide bombers and the terrorists. Allah u Akbar shout the police and the Army. Kilings go on invoking His name. Somewhere out there, Allah is ostensibly not listening.
Comments
104 responses to “Whose God is Great? Another Carnage in Lahore”
@jawwad
Dude; everywhere you see me; you start your anti-shia hatred. Chill out your hate towards shias; learn to live side by side; get over the fact that sunnis are no more in majority in the muslim world; by population and by power.
Taliban and hezbollah are 2 separate things; dont confuse them with each other. Taliban kill muslims while hezbollah has fought israel's occupation against lebanon. Sympathizers of taliban like you always ignore the fact that these so called leaders of the "Islamic Jihad" were agents of the CIA; created and funded by yours truly the Great Satan to dismantle the soviet union.
Dont give me this khomeini killed sunnis bullshit. The people killed in the revolution were symphatizers of the USA; people like those are still found working undercover in iran for the CIA.
Your reasoning for no sunni mosque in shia iran is biased and uncalled for. Why are there no shia mosques in wahabi saudi arabia?
@ Hakeem
1- You have used “we”, tell me how many “you” actually are ?
2- According to you “We don’t regard Jinnah as our Prophet and we don’t worship Jinnah.” —– Could you please tell me when did I term Quaid-e-Azam Mr. Jinnah as your prophet and when did I say you worship Mr. Jinnah ? BTW do you think Muslims worship the Prophet ?
3- You said —- “Pakistan a secular state or not, DOES NOT MATTER.” —- Well, founder of Pakistani nation Quaid-e-Azam M. A. Jinnah was a staunch believer of secularism and for him Pakistan was supposed to be a secular state, therefore for Pakistani nation it DOES MATTER that PAKISTN SHOULD BE A SECULAR STATE !
4- You further exhorted that —– “We follow our prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.W) and nothing is better than the Deen of Allah, Islam.” —– well, for Mr. Jinnah religion is everyone’s personal matter. And being a follower of Mr. Jinnah I too believe in secularism. Therefore, you are free to either believe in Islam or not ! BTW which Islam you are referring too Sunni, Wahabi, Shia, Deobandi, Malaki, Shafai’I, Hanbali, Salafi, Ismaili, Ahmedi, Kharjee, Jamaati, Talabani etc etc ad infinitum, would really appreciate if you tell us about your brand of Islam as well !
5- You seem to be a sexually perverted person as we were discussing about secularism (not sexism !) and still you have quoted a news story about legalization of incest in Romania which has certainly got no relevance with our discussion at all ! BTW I don’t have any sister and advise you to don’t suspect on your sisters and mother. Why are you afraid of your father, is he really interested in your sister or sisters, or do you really have thoughts about your mother ? ( I was really not interested in such filthy discussion, but you have forced me to do so !). Moreover, Pakistan is not a secular state right now as it’s official name is “Islamic Republic of Pakistan” and still there have been many cases reported in media about forced incest cases. I also remember about a programme anchored by one Ms. Hina Bi’iyaat on Geo TV, in one of their programme they informed about a girl’s confession who had sex with her real brother, who used to share room with her ! Ms. Hina also told her audience about some emails she received about some more cases of incest. Immediately after this programme went on air, the goons of Jamiat attacked Geo TV’s Karachi offices ! The point is Pakistani nation is in a state of denial and is not ready to accept the truth ! The truth is like western societies cases of incest do occur in Pakistan as well ! So, will you held Islam responsible for the occurances of incest cases in Pakistan ??
I am sure you don’t even know the definition of Secularism, that’s why you have vomited some pieces of crap from your mouth !
According to Wikipedia “Secularism is the assertion that governmental practices or institutions should exist separately from religion and/or religious beliefs.In one sense, secularism may assert the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, and freedom from the government imposition of religion upon the people, within a state that is neutral on matters of belief, and gives no state privileges or subsidies to religions.In another sense, it refers to a belief that human activities and decisions, especially political ones, should be based on evidence and fact unbiased by religious influence.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism
And
“A secular state is a state or country that is officially neutral in matters of religion, neither supporting nor opposing any particular religious beliefs or practices. A secular state also treats all its citizens equally regardless of religion, and does not give preferential treatment for a citizen from a particular religion over other religions. Most often it has no state religion or equivalent.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state
Hope next time you’d be more precise and rational in your comments rather that vomiting pieces of shit from your mouth !
@ jawwadkhan
1- You said —– “isn’t that pity that you people do not have any thing more except the presidential speech of quaid e azam to the legislative assembly” —– Do you still need anything ? Don’t you think Quaid-e-Azam’s address to the constituent assembly was in fact be taken more seriously than his addresses before the creation of Pakistan ? Quaid-e-Azam was addressing to the CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY whose primary responsibility was the formation of Pakistan’s constitution ! He was not addressing a public rally where more emphasis in put on oratory skills !
In this historical address Mr. Jinnah said —– “I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.” —– For me he was giving guidelines to the CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY which should be kept well in mind while Constitution of Pakistan is framed !
2- You have tried in vain to make a point that —– “Even if I agree with the notion that his address literally means that the secularism would be the state business then what about his whole life. his speeches, his interviews and the whole movement of independence which is based on 2 nation theory?” —– Well, what about his whole life ? dear the whole life of Mr. Jinnah was in fact secularism personified ! He never dragged his religious beliefs in his public life. He never ever said that Pakistan would be a theocratic state. BTW 2 nation theory is in no way against secularism. Declaring Muslims as a distinct nation from Hindus is not against the spirit of secularism at all ! Secularism simply means that state has no religion and it doesn’t mean that humans should not have a religion ! We have living examples of secular muslim state in the world like Turkey ! And we also have a secular neighbour i.e. India, where minorities have an equal chance to contest for the premiership or presidency ! We have seen recently that a muslim was president of India and even current PM of India is Sikh, who hardly form 5% of India’s population !
3- As you don’t have any rational arguments to support your point with you again took refuge in rhetoric, you said —- “Don’t you think that you brought that greatest leader of the 20th century in the same category of zardari and musharraf ? who say some thing and do contrary to what they said.
No my dear quaid e azam’s life is free from this kind of discrepancies.”—– I’m a follower of Quaid-e-Azam and don’t think your attempt of putting your words in my mouth will succeed ! Quaid-e-Azam was a secular person and his address of 11th August 1947 is in accordance with his beliefs and practices. He always fought for a secular Pakistan and never ever supported idea of a theocratic Pakistan !
@ jawwadkhan + all Taliban supporters
Below is link for your info
http://www.rawa.org/mazar6.htm
I say,"Why have we forgotten our 'Khuda' by replacing it with 'Allah' to please the Saudi Petro-Dollar Allah, when Alama Iqbal says:
"Buton (Idols) se tum ko ummidein khuda se nomidi
Bata to sahi aur kafri kia he"
(You believe in idols (which can include Saudi Allah) but you have lost faith in Khuda. Tell me what else is kafri if not this (disbelief in Khuda)?)
Even our National Anthem says at the end:
"Saayaa-e-Khuda-e-Zuljalaal"
But we have banished our Khuda from Pakiland just to please Saudi Allah.
@moderators
Could you please tell me the reasons of removing my comments in response to Haleem ????
Whereas jawwadkhan's comments containing foul words are still there ???
That's really very sad !
Thanks for your 'neutrality' !!!!
reading lord it is known as "metamorphosis of the culture"
which happens normally in almost every 100 year.nothing to do with saudi "dollars".
Ameer khusro(reh:ale) is known as arichitect of the urdu but there are very few people who can understatnd the urdu of ameer khusro.
similarly "khuda" is persian word.200-100 yrs ago the persian language had the same importance as the english have in 20th-21st century.
please do not look every thing with american specs.
"Could you please tell me the reasons of removing my comments in response to Haleem ????
@unreasoner!
it happens all the time and with every one.because teeth maestro is the forum where comment are usually flooded by the bloggers.its not personal 😉
"don’t you think a psuedo dr. is using foul language"
you didn't saw me using foul language.because of me "mummy daddy" type boys avoid commenting on teeth maestro.
some bodyy stooooooop meeeeee!
@ psuedo dr.
you need to check hakeem mahir ul mahir, he's an expert physian of Bawaseer. Haleem has recently told me that hakeem mahir screwed his ass and after this procedure Hakeem stopped vomitting pieces of shits from his mouth !!
You seem to be a chronic sufferer of Bawaseer that's why you are vomitting quite big pieces from your gutter like stinking mouth !
@ moderators
I'm sorry but this psuedo dr. forced me to use filthy language !
Reasoner, don't waste your time, seriously.
Reasoner (or you think you have reason),
When you use filthy language, it becomes legit and its prohibited for others to use same kind of words for you. What a shame.
Regarding Hakeems comments, why is it ir-relevant to the discussion? is it not about giving people to decide the rules they are going to abide by? Didn't you read the post, it mentioned 'consensual' incest. Its about empowering people. Rules made by people not by GOD.
I doubt you passed highschol, otherwise you wouldn't have to see wikipedia for the definition of Secularism.
Reasoner,
Thanks for exposing yourself. I hope rest of the Pakistan knows what you, self-proclaimed, secularists are all about.
@Jawad
What about the killings of shia ulema througout history by the sunnis? You turn a blind eye to the other side of the arguement which clearly shows your bias against shias in general.
Im not in a mood to debate with you again as you have shown so much arrogance in the previous blog.
Bhashans? You've downgraded the Prophet SAW to your standard.
NEWS FLASH: You should be happy with the sharia law your beloved taliban are imposing nowadays; public flogging of women. What they forgot was that they too were na-mehrams and were not supposed to touch the girl in question. Nor they were supposed to bad-mouth each other.
These taliban have nothing to do with Islam and are agents of CIA who are hellbent on destroying Pakistan. You are taking an active part in the spreading of fitna by supporting these munafiqeen.
[stay on topic]
To all of my pakistani friends on this blog
initially i thought this question was shamless.WHOSE GOD IS GREAT?
SUPPOSED TO BE SOMETHING fruitful at least agreeing on one Allah atleast.
But everyone is god here and look at our selves we are not face to face and so intolerent. how can we be a nation we are not comming out of shia sunni whabi etc.
Manfia't aik hai iss qaum ki nuqsaan bhi aik
Aik hi sab ka Nabi (PBUH), Deen bhi, Imaan bhi aik
Harm-e-Pak bhi, Allah bhi, Quran bhi aik
Kuch bari baat thi hotey jo Musalmaan bhi aik?
Firqa bandi hai kahin, aur kahin zaatain hain
Kya zamaaney main pinapnay ki yahi batain hain?
I donot agree with mr daniyal being aethist or any one not believing in Islam in entierty but seeing this I donot blame them either if they have to see us as example. but saying this they should see only one man…..Mohammed pbuh.
@ Habib
Have you ever read or listened to following ghazal sung by Jagjeet Singh ??? :))))
YEH MUAJZAA BHII MUHABBAT KABHII DEEKHAY'AY HAMAIN
KAY SANG TUJH PAY GERRAY AUR ZAKHAM A'AY MUJHAAY ! …..
Well, buddy without knowing (or you may be pretending to do not know) how and who started this nasty verbal fight , you are critising me !!!
The reason for this blind criticism on me must be my comments in favour of Secularism, instead of replying to me to the point you people are trying to avoid that discussion and targetting me personally !!
You have commented —– "I doubt you passed highschol, otherwise you wouldn’t have to see wikipedia for the definition of Secularism."—- well, don't worry about my education as every sane person reading this thread of comments could easily understand if my comments have got any worth or not and I don't need any certificate from you to show whether I've passed my highschool or not !!!
Now, the purpose of quoting definitions of SECULARISM n SECULAR STATE was to show how empty-headed Hakeem was as being a sexually perverted person he was trying to equate Secularism with sexism !!!
Now Could psuedo dr. + Hakeem + Habib and any of their gang member come up with some rational arguments against my comments posted in reply to psuedo dr. and Hakeem ????
I would really appreciate if you guys argue rationally instead of rants !
I would also appreciate if decency is shown so that I can reciprocate it !!!
Dear Reasoner,
Will u please tell me which form of secularism u promote
Is it aethism or politics and religion are separate.
@ RAJA
You just need to carefully need what i've already commented so far on this thread, I hope you wouldn't face any deficulty what I meant by secularism.
BTW atheism is not a political theory and it is certainly not a form of secularism, as per my knowledge and understanding an atheist is a person who doesn't believe in GOD or GODS.
A religious person can be secular just like Mr. Jinnah who was muslim but who also wanted Pakistan to be a secular state ! We do have some political parties in Pakistan who wants Pakistan to be a secular state for instance PPP, ANP, MQM, and some other nationalist parties.
Whereas Secularism is a political theory according to which state should not have any religion and state should treat all of its citizens equally and one's religious belief are his/her personal matter and has nothing to do with state. Moreover, state should not prefer a religion or caste or creed over others i.e. to say state should be 'areligious'.
To quote from wikipedia again
"Secularism is the assertion that governmental practices or institutions should exist separately from religion and/or religious beliefs.In one sense, secularism may assert the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, and freedom from the government imposition of religion upon the people, within a state that is neutral on matters of belief, and gives no state privileges or subsidies to religions.In another sense, it refers to a belief that human activities and decisions, especially political ones, should be based on evidence and fact unbiased by religious influence.”
Thanks Reasoner
U just answered very well enough what I wanted to know.
Now may I know what you understand what religions is
Is it just believing in God/ Allah or way of life or both.
@RAJA
For me religion is everyone's personal matter.
And I don't think I need to share my personal beliefs with anyone !
If you believe in God, then again it's your personal matter and I certainly have no problem with it.
And if you don't believe in God then again it's simply your personal matter, and I again don't have any problem with it.
What's more important for me is nobody has a right to impose his/her beliefs on others especially by force.
In the words of Quaid-e-Azam —- "“You may belong to any religion or caste or creed – that has nothing to do with the business of the State…” !
And he further said —- "We should begin to work in that spirit and in course of time all these angularities of the majority and minority communities, the Hindu community and the Muslim community – because even as regards Muslims you have Pathans, Punjabis, Shias, Sunnis and so on and among the Hindus you have Brahmins, Vashnavas, Khatris, also Bengalees, Madrasis, and so on – will vanish." !
Dear Reasoner
I didnot ask ur belief, what asked is What u understand of religion.
so we can have a fruitful discussion if u r comfortable with it.
As I am a muslim I have no shame in saying that.Being a muslim I am only conveying The Message. Its not my duty to impose on u or anyone else.
' whomever Allah guides,none can misguide, and whomever Allah leads astray, none can guide.'
'Islam holds no boundries or no states but one law of land '
If Jinnah's words were bigger than Mohammed than in my opinion 'Ghandi and Nehru' were right to have one subcontinent why dividing in first place.
The struggle between Islam and secularism is nothing new. It is just the age old struggle between Islam and Jâhiliyyah1 in a new guise. Jâhiliyyah, the way of ignorance, comes inmany forms, has many names, and adopts various symbols, but it always has the same common denominator – polytheism. The conflict between Islam and secularism is none other than the conflict between Islam and polytheism. It is the struggle against the enemies of the Prophets that began in antiquity when Allah sent the very first Prophet to
humanity and it will continue until Allah puts an end to the Earth and everything on it.
The Fervor of Jâhiliyyah
When Jâhiliyyah goes to war, it is goaded on by bigotry. It does not do so to elevate thename of Allah.
Allah says: “While the Unbelievers stirred up in their hearts fervor – the fervor of ignorance, Allah sent down His tranquility upon his Messenger and the believers…”
[Sûrah al-Fath: 26]
The unbelievers call to bigotry and the ignorance of the times before Islam. The Prophet (peace be upon him) expressly forbade us from hearkening to this call, saying: “Do you call to the claims of Jâhiliyyah while I am among you. Leave such claims, for they aretruly rotten.”2
Besides the banner of Islam, every banner that is raised is a banner of Jâhiliyyah. Take for example, the banner of nationalism. Nationalism asks us to give our lives for the sake of the ground we walk on. We are told to die for our countries. This is not an Islamic call.
It is not what the Prophet (peace be upon him) meant when he said: “Whoever fights so that the word of Allah is supreme has fought in the path of Allah.”3
In truth, the nation has become for many contemporary secularists an idol to be worshipped. One of them went so far as to say:
My country! It they fashioned for me out of it an idol,
I would approach that idol and kiss it.
Another nationalist poet writes:
O my country! I meet you after despair
As if I am meeting along with you my youth.
1 The word Jâhiliyyah refers to the times of ignorance before Islam.
2 Sahîh al-Bukhârî (4905). Sahîh Muslim (2584).
3 Sahîh al-Bukhârî (123). Sahîh Muslim (1904).
In this thread what i have picked so for is Taliban favoured as being true muslims and anti taliban.
ONLY JUDGE to is Allah
For us is to judge them if they are following Quran and sunnah in true essence and not their OWN OR SOMEONES interpertation of it.
And these interpertaions all began near fall of Colonial empires and disintegration of Church rebelism against Vatican when concepts like Prostentant, secularim, communism began. Why so ? as Church was corrupted and influenced by money and power and to hold this they tried to divide oppostion and diverted them away from very obviuos refuge which is Islam.
I agree with most of Taliban actions but when they slay muslims instead of teaching them I really susupect their origin, source, support and their original goals.
@RAJA
You have commented —- "I didnot ask ur belief, what asked is What u understand of religion." —-
buddy as i've told you for me religion is everyone's personal matter and it's of no importance for me whether you are Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Sikh, Jew, Sunni, Ahl-e-Hadith, Shia, Wahabi, Brelvi, etc etc.
—-"As I am a muslim I have no shame in saying that.Being a muslim I am only conveying The Message. "—–
Well, I'm really not interested in your message at all !!!
You have quoted a very relevant aayat from Quran i.e.
—– "‘ whomever Allah guides,none can misguide, and whomever Allah leads astray, none can guide."—-
You need not worry about me or others as Allah is there to guide or lead astray, therefore you shouldn't be worried about others !!!
—– "‘Islam holds no boundries or no states but one law of land "—-
What if Christians or Chinese or Hindus start their march to conquer other countries claiming that their sacred books instruct them to do so then will you buy their argument ???
Millions of Muslims live in countries which are christians, What do you think about them ??
—–"If Jinnah’s words were bigger than Mohammed than in my opinion ‘Ghandi and Nehru’ were right to have one subcontinent why dividing in first place."——
When did I say that Quaid-e-Azam's words were bigger than those of Muhammad (PBUH) ???
You need to read Quaid-e-Azam's address to the constituent assembly on 11th Aug, 1947 which I hope will remove confusions from your mind !
"forgery with the history"
actually i did not want to come back in this discussion but when a saw the shameless lies and forgery with the history of pakistan,i can't help commenting.
i have already post the refrences of quaid e azam here:
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=ddfbqf6s_10hkb9z…
and now some refrences of one of the most important charcters of pakistan movement. Allam Dr Mohd Iqbal will be mentioned imperatively when some one talks about the genesis of Pakistan.
Hakeem ul ummat, in his Presidential Address of All-India Muslim League Session at Allahabad, in 1930. Such a State, he said:
“Would mean security and peace for India resulting from an internal balance of power, and for Islam an opportunity to rid itself of the stamp that Arabian Imperialism was forced to give it, to mobilise its law, its education, its culture, and to bring them into closer contact with its own original spirit and with the spirit of modern times.
(Speeches and statements of Iqbal–P.15)
Two years later, while addressing the nation at the Annual Session of the All-India Muslim Conference at Lahore, on 21/3/1932, he said:
“The possibilities of the faith you represent are not yet exhausted. It can still create a new world where the social rank of man is not determined by his caste or colour, or the amount of the dividend he earns, but by the kind of life he lives; where Capital cannot be allowed to accumulate so as to dominate the real producer of wealth. This superb ideal of your faith, however, needs emancipation from the medieval fancies of theologians and legists. Spiritually, we are living in a prison-house of thoughts and emotions which, during the course of centuries we have woven round ourselves. And be it further said to the same of us– men of older generation– that we have failed to equip the younger generation for the economic, political and even religious crises that the present age is likely to bring. The whole community needs a complete overhauling of its mentality in order that it may again become capable of feeling the urge of fresh desires and ideals.
(Ibid p.55)
Iqbal has beautifully narrated this unique feature of the Islamic State. He says in his Lectures:
“The ultimate spiritual basis of all life, as conceived by Islam, is eternal and reveals itself in variety and change. A society based on such a conception of Reality must reconcile in its life the categories of permanence and change; it must possess eternal principles to regulate its collective life; for the eternal gives us a foothold in the world of perpetual change. But eternal principles when they are understood to exclude all possibilities of change, which, according to Quran is one of the greatest sings of God, tend to immobilise what is essentially mobile in its nature.
(Reconstruction of Religious Thoughts in Islam…P-149)
Iqbal examined critically what had been going on in our past history, and said that
“ The teaching of the Quran that life is a process of progressive creation necessitates that each generation, guided but unhampered by the work of its predecessors, should be permitted to solve its own problems.
(Lectures P-160)
best of luck
Dear Reasoner,
Religion of all prophet's from Adam Noah,Ibrahim,Mussa, Esa other named and unamed to Muhammed is Islam.
The difference between, Jews, Christians Muslims- people of books no thicker than ray of light.
We all are same and have same teachings but we are ummah /followers of our prophets.As long as these people dont do shirk no believer has any problem.
But lf v say let religion be out of our lives as its not practical and a school no longer necessary. Who is going to decide right from wrong or lay down rules of morality mine,urs,jawwad's, or anybody else.
In closed doors and personnal matter incest is legalised probably u or me wont accept this now but may be our children.
Who than going to say sex between father and daughter,mother and son,sister and brother is wrong because they were consensual and its their personnal matter.( Ghandi slept with his grand niece – 12 yr old ) I am streching it to far.
In France INCEST is lawful and not a crimanal offence for last 10 yrs,similar law in california, holland and scanavian countirs currently under consideration in Rommania and Austria.
Theft,decoty , hippocracy will be classified as professions and art form – well our politicians and some religious leaders doing.
I am not forcing anything on u neither a message – I am conveying and performing my duty as a muslim and fully tolerant to ur believes and just utilising same right of speech as u r.
I think u are well versed and educated enough and intelligent aswell to know right and wrong.
we leave to who knows best.
Iqbal has beautifully narrated this unique feature of the Islamic State. He says in his Lectures:
===================================
Allahs condemns poets in Quran and Iqbal is included amongst poets:
Dear Jawwad Sahab,
Since you are very fond of Islam also of poetry so lets see how the ultimate source of Islam i.e. Quran views Poetry and Poets and please include Poet Iqbal in this category as well as mentioned in Quran:
“Shall I inform you upon whom the devils descend? They descend on every sinful, false one. They listen eagerly, but most of them are liars.As for poets, the erring follow them. Hast thou not seen how they stray in every valley, And how they say that which they do not? “[Verse 221-222-223- 224-225-226 Chapter 026 AL-SHUARA (THE POETS)]
And We have not taught him (Muhammad) poetry, nor is it meet for him. This is naught else than a Reminder and a Lecture making plain, To warn whosoever liveth, and that the word may be fulfilled against the disbelievers. [Chapter 36 Verses 69-70 YA-SEEN (YA-SEEN)]
That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger. It is not poet’s speech – little is it that ye believe! Nor diviner’s speech – little is it that ye remember! It is a revelation from the Lord of the Worlds. [Chapter 69 Verse 40-41-42-43 AL-HAAQQA (THE REALITY)]
Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:
The Prophet said, “It is better for a man to fill the inside of his body with pus than to fill it with poetry.” [Muslim]
@amir mughal sahib!
aisa kijiye aik kudal laiye. pehley usay meray sar pe mariye aur phir apnay sar par.
is tarah se ham donon ki jan is qisim ki bachgana beheson se hamesha ke liye choot jaey.
Iqbal has beautifully narrated this unique feature of the Islamic State. He says in his Lectures .aisa kijiye aik kudal laiye. pehley usay meray sar pe mariye aur phir apnay sar par. is tarah se ham donon ki jan is qisim ki bachgana beheson se hamesha ke liye choot jaey. [Dr Jawwad Khan]
========================
Dear Jawwad Sahab,
What was the need of Poem "Saray Jahan Say Acha Hindustan Hamara"
Second Coming of Prophet Jesus [PBUH] and Hazrat Imam Mahdi is proven through detailed and repeated Hadiths and Iqbal deny both. I wonder if you would still call a Childish Debate when I quote Quran and Hadith???
Allama Iqbal has a very saying about Mehdi's Image.
thay tu woh aa'ba tumharay tum kya ho
haath per haath dharay muntazir-e-farda ho
Iqbal,
howi jis key khudi pehlay baidar, hay wohi mehdi
i.
He wrote in a poem in Armaghan-e-Hijaz
"Is the son of Mary dead, or does he live?
Are Divine attributes separate from God, or one with His Person?
Is the Coming one the Nazarene Jesus, or a Mujaddid having the son of Mary’s qualities?
Are the Divine words created, or pre-existing from eternity, In which belief does lie the salvation of the Ummah?
Are not sufficient for the Muslims today, These Lat and Manat [idols] carved out by theology."
One of the letter of Allama Iqbal from Iqbal Nama has this text:
"I can only tell you what I believe. I consider the Hadith reports about the Mahdi, the coming Messiah, and mujaddidiyya, to be derived from Persian and non-Arab conceptions. They have no connection with Arab concepts or the true spirit of the Quran."
In Baqiyat Iqbal, p. 451
"Look for the descent of God upon the minaret of your own heart,
And give up waiting even for the Mahdi or Jesus."
In Khutba-e-Madras
"As far as I understand the meaning of this movement, the Ahmadis believe that Jesus died the death of a mortal human being, and the return of the Messiah refers to a person who bears spiritual similarity to him. This belief gives this movement a rational appearance."
What Islamic State Iqbal was trying to formulate when he himself was indenial of the Following Hadith of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH]
1 – Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri reported that the Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: "At the end of the time of my ummah, the Mahdi will appear. Allaah will grant him rain, the earth will bring forth its fruits, he will give a lot of money, cattle will increase and the ummah will become great. He will rule for seven or eight years. (Mustadrak al-Haakim, 4/557-558; he said: this is a hadeeth whose isnaad is saheeh, although it was not reported by al-Bukhaari and Muslim. Al-Dhahabi agreed with him, and al-Albaani said: this is a saheeh sanad, and its men are thiqaat (trustworthy), Silsilat al-ahaadeeth al-saheehah, vol. 2, p. 336, hadeeth 771)
2. ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: "The Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: ‘The Mahdi is one of us, a member of my family. Allaah will guide him in a single night.’" (Musnad Ahmad, 2/58, hadeeth 645, edited by Ahmad al-Shaakir, who said: its isnaad is saheeh; Sunan Ibn Maajah, 2/1367. This hadeeth was also classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’ al-Sagheer, 6735). Ibn Katheer said: "This means that Allaah will forgive him, grant him help, inspire him and guide him, when he was not like this before." (Al-Nihaayah, al-Fitan wa’l-Malaahim, 1/29; edited by Taha Zayni).
3. Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri said: "The Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: ‘The Mahdi is of my lineage, with a high forehead and a long, thin, curved nose. He will fill the earth with fairness and justice as it was filled with oppression and injustice, and he will rule for seven years.’" (Sunan Abi Dawud, Kitaab al-Mahdi, 11/375, hadeeth 4265; Mustadrak al-Haakim, 4/557; he said: this is a saheeh hadeeth according to the conditions of Muslim, although it was not reported by al-Bukhaari and Muslim. See also Saheeh al-Jaami, 6736).
4. Umm Salamah said: "I heard the Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) say: ‘The Mahdi is of my lineage and family, from the descendants of Faatimah.’" (Sunan Abu Dawud, 11/373; Sunan Ibn Maajah. 2/1368. Al-Albaani said that it is saheeh in Saheeh al-Jaami, 6734)
5. Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: "The Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: ‘‘Eesaa ibn Maryam will descend, and their leader the Mahdi will say, "Come and lead us in prayer," but he will say, "No, one of them should lead them as an honour to this ummah from Allaah."’" The version narrated by Muslim says: "… Then ‘Eesaa ibn Maryam (Peace be upon him) will descend and their leader will say, ‘Come and lead us in prayer,’ but he will say, ‘No, some of you are leaders over others as an honour from Allaah to this ummah.’" (Reported by Muslim, 225)
6. Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: "The Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: "He is one of us, behind whom ‘Eesaa ibn Maryam will pray." (Reported by Abi Na’eem in Akhbaar al-Mahdi. Al-Albaani said it is saheeh; see al-Jaami’ al-Sagheer, 5/219, hadeeth 5796).
7. ‘Abdullaah ibn Mas’ood reported that the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: "The world will not come to an end until the Arabs are ruled by a man from my family whose name will be the same as mine." (Musnad Ahmad, 5/199, hadeeth 3573. Another version says: "… whose name is the same as mine and whose father’s name is the same as my father’s." Sunan Abi Dawud, 11/370).
Iqbal has beautifully narrated this unique feature of the Islamic State. He says in his Lectures .aisa kijiye aik kudal laiye. pehley usay meray sar pe mariye aur phir apnay sar par. is tarah se ham donon ki jan is qisim ki bachgana beheson se hamesha ke liye choot jaey. [Dr Jawwad Khan]
and
From another Thread
allama iqbal once said: aata hey sultani e jamhoor ka zamana
jo naqsh e kohan tumko nazar aaey mita do [Dr Jawwad Khan]
======================
Dear Jawwad Sahab,
No doubt late Iqbal was a good poet and learned philosopher but would you like to define this confusion of Iqbal's Mind and his poetry as well:
Please find Pakistan in the following Rant of Iqbal and if you succeed in finding Pakistan in the Rant then what happened to Islam. And If Iqbal was for Islam then what was the need of that Cock and Bull Story of the Dream of Pakistan by Poet Allama Iqbal which we have been taught at School, College and University level and that too Ad nauseam …If the Watan [Homeland] was Kafan [Funeral] for the Religion [Islam] then what was the need of Pakistan and if Watan [Homeland] was not Kafan [Funeral] for Religion [Islam] then what was the need of this Verse.
1 – In Taza Khudaon Mein Bara Sab Say Watan Hai. Jo Pairahan Is Ka Hai, Woh Mazhab Ka Kafan Hai
If the Watan [Homeland] was Kafan [Funeral] for the Religion [Islam] then what was the need of this rant by Iqbal
"Saray Jahan Say Acha Hindustan Hamara" (Iqbal)
Another contribution to this Darul Islam and Darul Harb Theory is the demented and Fascist poetry of Iqbal and I leave it to you to decide:
Iqbal on Spreading Islam in West:
http://www.allamaiqbal.com/works/poetry/urdu/zarb…
Iqbal Hindi Islam:
http://www.allamaiqbal.com/works/poetry/urdu/zarb…
Iqbal on Ijtihad [Reinterpretation]
http://www.allamaiqbal.com/works/poetry/urdu/zarb…
Iqbal's Anti West Poetry:
http://www.allamaiqbal.com/works/poetry/urdu/zarb…
Iqbal's Anti Democracy Poetry [what the hell he was doing all those years in the West]
http://www.allamaiqbal.com/works/poetry/urdu/zarb…
Iqbal against Secular Politics
http://www.allamaiqbal.com/works/poetry/urdu/zarb…
Iqbal's poetry against Women Education:
http://www.allamaiqbal.com/works/poetry/urdu/bang…
Religious Fascist type poets, Religion, Mullahs, Mosques and Religious Rituals should be under strict government control and and religious rituals should only be allowed within the boundary walls of Mosques, Imam Bargahs and Community Centres. Loudspeakers should be banned forthwith except for Azan [prayer calls].
Dear AMIR sahib,
A human being is a product of his envrionment, educational background and upbringing.His life has many phases and at times influenced multiple factors…..
here where uniformity comes from Religion.
Stages of ALIM is education than intellect than comes wisdom and combining all these brings VISION.
Now answering ur confusion about Iqbal.
He went same process as any other but he reached level of Vision and probably u ,me or any of his critic are at levelof educating and trying to be intellectuals….out of personal vendectta,hatered or confusion or merely critisim for sake of critiscism.
well dialogue is necessary to grow.
Now what u have done is put a verse out of context
But still that verse in itself is ANTI NATIONALIST.
It is instructive that whilst the concept of the ‘nation state’ as a political or social construct has all but disappeared from Europe, the ‘cradle’ of post medieval nationalism and nationhood, it remains a powerful force in much of the Muslim world, from Egypt to Turkey, and from Pakistan to Malaysia.
This of course, in addition to being inimical to everything Muslims should believe in, and ought to do, is also rather silly.
NOW I give u Full POEM Wataniayat
Iss daur main may aur hai, jaam aur hai, jum aur
Saaqi ne bina ki rawish-e-lutf-o-sitam aur
Muslim nai bhi ta’ameer kia, apna harum aur
Tahzeeb ke azar ne trishwai sanam aur
In taza khudaon main baRa sab se watan hai
Jo pairhan iss ka hai, woh mazhab ka kafan hai
Yeh but keh tarasheeda-e-tahzeeb-i-navi hai
Gharat gar-e-khashan-e-deen-i-nabawi hai
Baazu tira tawheed ki quwwat se qawi hai
Islam tira dais he, tu Mustafawi hai!
Nazzara-e-deerana zamanay ko dikha dai
Ai Mustafawi, khaak main iss but to mila dai
Ho qaid-maqaami to nateeja hai tabahi
Rah bahar main azad-e-watan, soorat-e-maahi
Hai tark-e-watan sunnat-e-Mahboob-e-Ilaahi
Dai tu bhi nabuwwat ki sadaqat peh gawahi
Guftaar-e-siyasat main watan aur hi kuch hai
Irshaad-e-nabuwwat main watan aur hi kuch hai
Aqwaam-e-jahan main hai raqabat, to issi sai
Taskheer hai maqsood-e-tijarat, to issi sai
Khaali hai sadaqat sai siyasat, to issi sai
Kamzor ka ghar hota hai gharat, to issi sai
Aqwam main makhlooq-e-khuda bat-ti hai iss sai
Qaumeat islam ki jaR kat-ti hai iss sai
'We have divided u into tribes for ur own identification only' – al quran
Allah says: “A group was stirred to anxiety by their own feelings, moved by suspicions about Allah, suspicions of the times of ignorance.” [Sûrah Âl `Imrân: 154]
Allah tells us more about these people: “You can see how those in whose hearts is a disease eagerly run about amongst them saying: ‘We fear lest a change of fortune bring us disaster.’ Ah! Perhaps Allah will give you victory or a decision from Him. Then they will regret the thoughts that they secretly harbored in their hearts.” [Sûrah al-Mâ’idah:52]
The original Jâhiliyyah thought that Islam did no have a leg to stand on.
This Jâhiliyyah of today is exactly like the Jâhiliyyah of old. They say that the mosque is
for Allah and everything else is for “Caesar”. The schools are for Caesar. The media is
for other than Allah. They restrict Islam to the mosque and the prayer room. Everything
else is to be governed without resort to Islamic Law. This is outright polytheism.
How can we possibly reconcile between the position of secularism and Allah’s command:
“Say: verily my prayer, my sacrifice, my life, and my death are for Allah, the Lord of All
the Worlds. He has no partner. This is how I have been commanded and I am the first of
those who submit.” [Sûrah al-An`âm: 162-163]
How can we reconcile secularism with the meaning of the declaration of faith “There is no God but Allah” which means that no aspect of worship or devotion must be offered to anything or anyone besides Allah? All worship directed elsewhere is polytheism, false and rejected.
Therefore, secularism is polytheism. It states that the mosque is for Allah and everything else is for other than Allah, or as the Christian’s say: “for Caesar”.
Islam is the religion that Allah sent down to replace the previous manifestations of the faith and to govern all aspects of life. The simplest Muslim can see how Islam explains all matters in detail. It is impossible for a Muslim to feel that the religion that regulates his marital affairs, his business, his eating habits, his manner of sleeping, and even how he goes to the bathroom could ever leave managing the political and economic affairs of society to other than Allah.
For Allah says:
“We have neglected nothing in the Book.” [Sûrah al-An`âm: 38]
“We have sent down to you the Book explaining all things” [Sûrah al-Nahl: 89]
This issue is not open for debate. Islam, as the final religion, has supremacy over all faiths and over every aspect of life. There is no place for secularism in the lands of Islam or among the Muslims.
Throughout the history of Islam, it never experienced the troubles that were faced by Europe on account of its corrupted faith. Among the most important of these was the horrific breach that took place between religion and science.
Religion fought against science so fiercely that the church burned some scientists to death on the grounds that those scientists went against the word of Allah.
Islamic history contains nothing of the sort. Islam opened the doors to scientific enquiry and encouraged intellectual activity. Scientists were frequent guests at the courts and assemblies of various caliphs and received a fair share of royal gifts and patronage. The Muslim world never in its long history encountered the persecution and restriction of its scientists. There were no inquisitions like there were in Europe. Islam never experienced the abuses of a Church that took from the people great sums of money, restricted their intellectual lives, and burned their scientists and thinkers, all in the name of religion.
Quite the contrary, Muslim history is one of amicability between science and the religion whose first revelation was “Read in the name of your Lord who
created.”
Science is one of the fruits of proper adherence to Islam. It is a result of obeying Allah’s command to learn, teach, read, and study.
Those who wish to bring secularism to the Muslim world ignore this major difference between the religious history of the Islamic world and the religious history of Europe wherein secularism developed.
When I say Jayalliah it includes all fascist thoughts, nationalism , secularism, captalism cummionism etc
Dear Amir,
Islam is not Iqbal, Jinnah, mine, urs, whabi,shia, sunni or any ones it is
LA ILL A HA MOHAMMED UR RASOOL ILLAH
We have Quran and Sunnah and advice to educate our selves and reach wisdom
VISION IS ALREADY GIVEN TO US.
Baazu tira tawheed ki quwwat se qawi hai
Islam tira dais he, tu Mustafawi hai!
Nazzara-e-deerana zamanay ko dikha dai
Ai Mustafawi, khaak main iss but to mila dai
Dear Amir,
Islam is not Iqbal [RAJA]
=====================
Dear Raja Sahab
We have a Poet Iqbal [as a Pakistan's National Poet] who said [by denying Correct and authentic not Shia but Sunni Hadith] that Prophet Jesus [Peace be Upon him] will not appear before Judgement day [but Sunni and Pakistani Muslim reject Iqbal on this] Allama Iqbal also reject verified, authentic and correct Sunni Hadith not
Shia Hadith, that Mehdi will not arrive before Judgement Day whereas Pakistani Sunni Muslims [who say that Taliban are correct and true Pakistanis] reject Allama Iqbal’s False Belief [Allama Iqbal was Fasidul Aqeeda]
EVIDENCE OF ALLAMA IQBAL FALSE AQEEDA AS PER HIS OWN LITERATURE:
Second Coming of Prophet Jesus [PBUH] and Hazrat Imam Mahdi is proven through detailed and repeated Hadiths and Iqbal deny both. I wonder if you would still call a Childish Debate when I quote Quran and Hadith???
Allama Iqbal has a very saying about Mehdi’s Image.
thay tu woh aa’ba tumharay tum kya ho
haath per haath dharay muntazir-e-farda ho
Iqbal,
howi jis key khudi pehlay baidar, hay wohi mehdi
i.
He wrote in a poem in Armaghan-e-Hijaz
“Is the son of Mary dead, or does he live?
Are Divine attributes separate from God, or one with His Person?
Is the Coming one the Nazarene Jesus, or a Mujaddid having the son of Mary’s qualities?
Are the Divine words created, or pre-existing from eternity, In which belief does lie the salvation of the Ummah?
Are not sufficient for the Muslims today, These Lat and Manat [idols] carved out by theology.”
One of the letter of Allama Iqbal from Iqbal Nama has this text:
“I can only tell you what I believe. I consider the Hadith reports about the Mahdi, the coming Messiah, and mujaddidiyya, to be derived from Persian and non-Arab conceptions. They have no connection with Arab concepts or the true spirit of the Quran.”
In Baqiyat Iqbal, p. 451
“Look for the descent of God upon the minaret of your own heart,
And give up waiting even for the Mahdi or Jesus.”
In Khutba-e-Madras
“As far as I understand the meaning of this movement, the Ahmadis believe that Jesus died the death of a mortal human being, and the return of the Messiah refers to a person who bears spiritual similarity to him. This belief gives this movement a rational appearance.”
Dear Raja Sahab,
SWAT flogging was a right thing to do as per Quran and Hadith. I love that Genuine Flogging Video
I will just quote Quran and Hadith on Poets and both of them condemned Poets and Iqbal was a Poet, and Quran didn't excluded Iqbal or the Nationalist Type of Pakistani Poets were not excluded from the condmened list of Quran and Hadith.
Since you are very fond of Islam and also of poetry so lets see how the ultimate source of Islam i.e. Quran views Poetry and Poets and please include Poet Iqbal in this category as well as mentioned in Quran:
“Shall I inform you upon whom the devils descend? They descend on every sinful, false one. They listen eagerly, but most of them are liars.As for poets, the erring follow them. Hast thou not seen how they stray in every valley, And how they say that which they do not? “[Verse 221-222-223- 224-225-226 Chapter 026 AL-SHUARA (THE POETS)]
And We have not taught him (Muhammad) poetry, nor is it meet for him. This is naught else than a Reminder and a Lecture making plain, To warn whosoever liveth, and that the word may be fulfilled against the disbelievers. [Chapter 36 Verses 69-70 YA-SEEN (YA-SEEN)]
That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger. It is not poet’s speech – little is it that ye believe! Nor diviner’s speech – little is it that ye remember! It is a revelation from the Lord of the Worlds. [Chapter 69 Verse 40-41-42-43 AL-HAAQQA (THE REALITY)]
Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:
The Prophet said, “It is better for a man to fill the inside of his body with pus than to fill it with poetry.” [Muslim]
Dear Ammir
I am not only waiting for Islam to be revived as u or Dr Jawad is…..
probably u did not see my following post one before u .
I donot follow any human being niether Iqbal, Jinnah or any except Mohammed (pbuh).
Tell me if SHUARA are so wrong what we say about Qawwali, Naat, Hammad, marsia, Qasida burda sharif.
this is not to prove u wrong but ur opinion.
Qawwali, Naat, Hammad, marsia, Qasida burda sharif. [RAJA]
=========================
Dear Raja Sahab,
As per Talibani, Deobandi, and Salafis:
1 – Qawwali [Polytheistic – Shirkiya thus Haram] it is even worse than Kotha's Song because Allah and Prophet and his Companion's praise through Drums and other Musical Instrument, May Allah save us.
2 – Naat and Hamd [Recite Durood Sharif for saluting Prophet Mohammad – PBUH], and Recite Quran and Pray and Zikr given in Authentic Hadith book not in Innovative Panjsooras and Wazifa Books]
3 – Qasid Burda Sharif [Bida'at – Innovation]
As per Sufi Deobandis, Barelvis and Shias:
Everything above is Halal rather a kind of Worship.
Thats why I believe that following should be followed:
Religious Fascist type poets include [Iqbal and Hafeez Jalandhari], Religion, Mullahs, Mosques and Religious Rituals should be under strict government control and and religious rituals should only be allowed within the boundary walls of Mosques, Imam Bargahs and Community Centres. Loudspeakers should be banned forthwith except for Azan [prayer calls].
And if you still insist for Poetry and Poets then I like this kind of Poetry:
Jin Logon Ko Mujhe Say Adawat Gehri
Kehtay Hain Woh Mujh Ko Rafizi Aur Dehri
Dehri Kiyon Kar Ho, Jo Kay Huway Sufi
Shiee Kiyon Kar Ho Mawara An Nahri [Mirza Ghalib 1850]
===
Ashab Ko Jo Nasaza Kehtay Hain
Samjhayn To Zara Dil Mein Kay Kiya Kehtay Hain
Samjha tha Nabi nay un Ko Apna Hamdam
Hay , Hay Na Kaho Kisay Bura Kehtay Hain [Mirza Ghalib 1850]
===
Yaranay Rasul Yani Ashab-e-Kabbar
Hain Garchay Buhat Khalifa Un mein Hain Chaar
In Chaar Mein Ik Say Ho Jis Ko Inkar
Ghalib, Woh Musalman Nahi Hai Zanhar [Mirza Ghalib 1850]
====
Yaran-e-Nabi Mein Thi Larai Kis Mein?
Ulfat Ki Na Thi Jalwa Numai Kis Mein?
Woh Sidq, Woh Adl, Woh Haya aur Woh Ilm
Batlao Koi Kay Thi Burai Kis Mein? [Mirza Ghalib 1850]
===
Yaraan-e-Nabi Say Rakh Tawwalla Billah,
Har yak hai Kamal-e-Deen Mein Yakta Billah,
Woh Dost Nabi Kay Aur Tum Un Kay Dushman,
La Haula Wala Quwata Illah Billah [Mirza Ghalib 1850]
After going through these Pious verses of Ghalib on the Companions of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] just go and read Mawdudi's Khilafat O Malookiyat [Mawdudi was allegedly very pious] and read as to how Mawdudi ridicule Hazrat Uthman and Bibi Ayesha and Hazrat Muawiyah. Ghalib was a Drunkard but indeed he was in his senses as far as Prophet and his companions were concerned whereas Mawdudi was Mullah and spent all his life reading Quran but read his books what Filth he unloaded in the name of Jamat-e-Islami's Islamic Literature.
My personal favourite Verse is this and I also do this:
Jo Hadday Taqwa Ada Na Huway, To Apna Mazhab Yahi Hai Ghalib
Hawas Na Reh Jai Koi Baqi, Gunah Kijiay To Khoob Kijiay.
[Mirza Ghalib 1812]
Dewan-e-Ghalib compiled by Kali Das Gupta Raza
Dear Raja Sahab,
I like this Slogan as well
Haiderium Qalandram Mastam
Banda e Murtaza Ali Hastam
Peshwa e tamam Rindanam
Ke Sag e Koo e Sher e Yazdanam!
DEAR AMIR,
HADITH U NARRATED IS ALSO BU ABU HARIRA IN SAHI BUKHARI.
SURA SHUUARA
Mostly narrates about ,qisa of Hazrat Musa, loot, shoaib, noha qisa of aad, samood. In end about poets as u narrated.
No. 3289 – Narrated 'Aisha:
Once Hassan bin Thabit asked the permission of the Prophet to lampoon (i.e. compose satirical poetry defaming) the infidels. The Prophet said, "What about the fact that I have common descent with them?" Hassan replied, "I shall take you out of them as a hair is taken out of dough."
Narrated 'Urwa: I started abusing Hassan in front of 'Aisha, whereupon she said. "Don't abuse him, for he used to defend the Prophet (with his poetry)."
No. 2992 – Narrated Sa'id bin Al-Musaiyab:
'Umar came to the Mosque while Hassan was reciting a poem. ('Umar disapproved of that). On that Hassan said, "I used to recite poetry in this very Mosque in the presence of one (i.e. the Prophet ) who was better than you." Then he turned towards Abu Huraira and said (to him), "I ask you by Allah, did you hear Allah's Apostle saying (to me), "Retort on my behalf. O Allah! Support him (i.e. Hassan) with the Holy Spirit?" Abu Huraira said, "Yes."
No. 3866 – Narrated Masruq:
We went to 'Aisha while Hassan bin Thabit was with her reciting poetry to her from some of his poetic verses, saying "A chaste wise lady about whom nobody can have suspicion. She gets up with an empty stomach because she never eats the flesh of indiscreet (ladies)." 'Aisha said to him, "But you are not like that." I said to her, "Why do you grant him admittance, though Allah said:– "and as for him among them, who had the greater share therein, his will be a severe torment." (24.11)
On that, 'Aisha said, "And what punishment is more than blinding?" She, added, "Hassan used to defend or say poetry on behalf of Allah's Apostle (against the infidels)."
No. 5753 – Narrated Salama bin Al-Aqwa:
We went out with Allah's Apostle to Khaibar and we travelled during the night. A man amongst the people said to 'Amir bin Al-Aqwa', "Won't you let us hear your POETry?" 'Amir was a POET, and so he got down and started (chanting Huda) reciting for the people, POETry that keep pace with the camel's foot steps, saying, "O Allah! Without You we would not have been guided on the right path, neither would we have given in charity, nor would we have prayed. So please forgive us what we have committed. Let all of us be sacrificed for Your cause and when we meet our enemy, make our feet firm and bestow peace and calmness on us and if they (our enemy) will call us towards an unjust thing we will refuse.
The infidels have made a hue and cry to ask others help against us. Allah's Apostle said, "Who is that driver (of the camels)?" They said, "He is 'Amir bin Al-Aqwa."' He said, "May Allah bestow His mercy on him." A man among the people said, Has Martyrdom been granted to him, O Allah's Prophet! Would that you let us enjoy his company longer." We reached (the people of) Khaibar and besieged them till we were stricken with severe hunger but Allah helped the Muslims conquer Khaibar. In the evening of its conquest the people made many fires. Allah's Apostle asked, "What are those fires? For what are you making fires?" They said, "For cooking meat." He asked, "What kind of meat?" They said, "Donkeys' meat." Allah's Apostle said, "Throw away the meat and break the cooking pots." A man said, O Allah's Apostle! Shall we throw away the meat and wash the cooking pots?" He said, "You can do that too." When the army files aligned in rows (for the battle), 'Amir's sword was a short one, and while attacking a Jew with it in order to hit him, the sharp edge of the sword turned back and hit 'Amir's knee and caused him to die.
When the Muslims returned (from the battle), Salama said, Allah's Apostle saw me pale and said, 'What is wrong with you?"' I said, "Let my parents be sacrificed for you! The people claim that all the deeds of Amir have been annulled." The Prophet asked, "Who said so?" I replied, "So-and-so and so-and-so and Usaid bin Al-Hudair Al-Ansari said, 'Whoever says so is telling a lie. Verily, 'Amir will have double reward."' (While speaking) the Prophet put two of his fingers together to indicate that, and added, "He was really a hard-working man and a Mujahid (devout fighter in Allah's Cause) and rarely have there lived in it (i.e., Medina or the battle-field) an "Arab like him."
No. 3831 – Narrated Al-Bara:
When it was the day of Al-Ahzab (i.e. the clans) and Allah's Apostle dug the trench, I saw him carrying earth out of the trench till dust made the skin of his abdomen out of my sight and he was a hairy man. I heard him reciting the POETic verses composed by Ibn Rawaha while he was carrying the earth, "O Allah! Without You we would not have been guided, nor would we have given in charity, nor would we have prayed. So, (O Allah), please send Sakina (i.e. calmness) upon us and make our feet firm if we meet the enemy, as they have rebelled against us. And if they intend affliction (i.e. want to frighten us, and fight against us) then we would not (flee but withstand them)." The Prophet would then prolong his voice at the last words.
THESE AHADITH FROM SAHI BUKHARI.
What to infereence from this The poets who were againts Mohammed(pbuh),Islam or any one who exaggerates lies and use work of lies satan and favours lust are to be condemned but one who protects Islam, Muhammed says naat haamad instead of qasida goi of King etc.
You Qouted again out of context Nargman e Hijaz the verses u said were from Iblese ie Iqbal tried to tell that what Iblees is trying to do. Iblees ki Majlis e shura 1932.
Raja Sahab,
What about this verse of Iqbal
Wahi Yasen Wahi Taaha Wahi Loh Wahi Quran.
I would rather prefer Quran and Hadith to understand Islam instead of through Iqbal's Fascist Poetry. What happened to Saray Jahan Say Acha Hindustan Humara …..
Dear Raja Sahab,
Please help me to understand this becuase this type of Poetry is exploited by Politically Religious Class at the behest of Establishment to earn quick bucks in the name of Islam. If the below mentioned is to be taken religiously then what was the need of Pakistan
In Taza Khudaon Mein Bara Sab Say Watan Hai. Jo Pairahan Is Ka Hai, Woh Mazhab Ka Kafan Hai
If the Watan [Homeland] was Kafan [Funeral] for the Religion [Islam] then what was the need of this rant by Iqbal
“Saray Jahan Say Acha Hindustan Hamara” (Iqbal)
this is not to prove u wrong but ur opinion.[RAJA]
=======================
Dear Raja Sahab,
In present time in Pakistan if we need poetry then this type of poetry would do [that is my personal opinion]
An advice from Altaf Hussain Hali's Collection [Mussadas-e-Hali]
کرے غیر گربت کی پوجا تو کافر
جو ٹھرائے بیٹا خدا کا تو کافر
جھکے آگ پر بہر سجدہ تو کافر
کواکب میں مانے کرشمہ تو کافر
مگر مومنوں پر کشادہ ہیں راہیں
پرستش کریں شوق سے جس کی چاہیں
نبی کو جو چاہیں خدا کر دکھائیں
اماموں کا رتبہ نبی سے بڑھائیں
مزاروں پہ دن رات مذریں چڑھائیں
شہیدوں سے جاجا کے مانگیں دعائیں
نہ توحید میں کچھ خلل اس سے آئے
نہ اسلام بگڑے نہ ایمان جائے
گناہوں سے ہوتے ہو گویا مبّرا
مخالف پہ کرتے ہو جب تم تبرّا
نہ سنی میں اور جعفری میں ہو الفت
نہ نعمانی و شافعی میں ہو ملت
وہابی سے صوفی کی کم ہو نہ نفرت
لمقلد کرے نا مقلد پہ لعنت
رہے اہلِ قبلہ مین جنگ ایسی باہم
کہ دینِ خدا پر ہنسے سارا عالم
کرے کوئی اصلاح کا گر ارادہ
تو شیطان سے اس کو سمجھو زیادہ
NOW WAS IQBAL QADIANI-? A BIG QUESTION MARK
Iqbal was influenced by Mirza when he was in Sialkot and even did bait on him but was with ahmidia movement but till when he Jahil qadiani started claiming to be mahdi and maseeh.
Than he wrote and announced
“Any person who believes in the coming, after the Holy
Prophet Muhammad, of a prophet the rejection of whom
makes one a ka¯fir, is excluded from the fold of Islam. If
the Qadiani Jama¯‘at holds this belief, it too is excluded
from the fold of Islam.”
“So far as I have understood the objective of this movement,
the belief of the Ahmadis is that Jesus died like
any other human mortal, and that the return of the
Messiah refers to the coming of a man who bears a
spiritual resemblance to him. This belief gives this
movement a rationalist colouring.”
This was the era when Mahdi were appearing not only in subcontinent but also in middle east and africa sudan- these movements were meant to divide muslims all across from within , making poor half educated and unknowlegable muslims more confused.And u can appreciate very good pious muslims led it and created bidaat and even worse very good muslims followed it….
YOU know why when we start worshiping ourselves and our ego than ALLAH.
I donot know will it make sense to u
I am going to saly Mohammed – hazrat umar just few momments before becoming MUSLIM.
If u qoute me this that umar said that he is going to slay Mohammed will u be lying or could i say no……. we are in a process of educating ourselves and HALF KNOWLEDGE IS WORSE THAN IGNORANCE.
BUT TRUTH REMAINS
THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH, MOHAMMED IS MESSENGER OF ALLAH
NOW WAS IQBAL QADIANI-? A BIG QUESTION MARK [RAJA]
======================
Dear Raja Sahab,
Not even in a thousand year. Allama Iqbal was a Muslim and May Allah bless him Heavens eternally [Amen].
My only point was that there is a tendency in Pakistan and Pakistanis that we link every damn thing with Islam, Two Nation Theory …bla bla bla.. Allama Iqbal no doubt was a Great Human Being, A Poet and a Gentleman but what we have here in Pakistan that we have turned him into a Gothic War Diety. This is wrong., this exploitation of Religion, Two Nation Theory, Wet Dream of Fort of Islam etc.etc. must be stop forthwith.
A very good discussion is going on here but I could not read all of it. To clinch the matter, will anybody tell me what is the definition of the term ‘Muslim’ in Islam and Quran.
As I see, according to Quran , the Muslim means ‘submitter’ (maghloob) who has no faith in Islam – vide verse 14 of Sura Hujrat (49). As for the so called Ullema they do not agree on any common definition of the term (See ‘Muneer Inquiry Report) and are therefore a perpetual cause of ‘fassaad’ among those who claim boastfully to be Muslims themselves while denying this right to others.
Btw, we forget one thing. What the call ‘Jahliah’, they were not atheists or secularists in any sense but extremists religion-mongers, believing in more gods and rituals than the Muslims did.
Dear LORD,
Is it not a plight a sorrow figure that even after 1500 yrs we are still trying to define ourselves…….and in english whereas our language is Arabic.
ANS to your query lies in very next aya ( 15) of Sura Hijrat
aya 14.
The desert Arabs say, We believe. Say, YE have no faith; but ye only say, ‘ we have submitted our wills to Allah,’for not yet has faith entered your hearts. But if ye obey Allah and his Messengers, He will not belittle aught: for Allah is oft Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
AYA 15-
Only those are Believers who have believed in Allah and His Messenger, and have never since doubted, but have striven with their belongings and their persons in the Cause of Allah: Such are the sincere ones.
Jaliyhya then were polytheist and secularism now and all these neo-europeon or western terminologies including democracy are polythiesism (read last few threads)
Dear Amir,
You are absolutely right. But why…………
'cause we do not know Islam anymore and we are relying for religion to whom who them selves are iliterate.
The problem is that our Ulama have seeked and are seeking answers in new things. secularism, fascism, secular islam e.g A girl is beaten or had duras in SWAT for Ghalt kari why she was not stoned instead by the people and where is the other person.?/???/
So many parties and people and leaders condemned it……………..
Did anyone including us tried whats truth what Quran, Sunnah and Shariah said about it. ……………..answer is NO
We are just uttering what we listened hastily, saw in a blink and opinons what someone uttered.
I have big reservations about Taliban whose purpose they are serving ……I am sure not Islam's it is their own existence.
But I also support what apparently they are trying to achieve is SHARIA but route is absolutely wrong.
As u said we link everything to Islam ….I ask why not.BUT what u are saying is that we exploit our wrong doings under islamic quilt but let me say if we know our Islam well enough how come anyone can exploit it.
For instance we know for fact about That Mohammed (pbuh) is the last prophet……..Did we not condemned and threw qadian's out. Did he – mirza -not was well versesed and educated scholar and derived everything from Quran. BUT people of time rejected it and Allah supported it ,it did not happen overnight his full life was made an examplry plight.
In Islamic world there are three kinds of people who are resisting it
1. one who are Munafikin …..muslims but their hearts are somewhere else
2. Ulama who are not activley spreading it but actively leading by bad example.
3.muslim blame shifters who seek and look upto for an answer to two kinds mention above.
JIS KO FAZOOL SAMAJ KAR BUJHA DIA TO NAY
WOHI JIRAGH JILAA O TO ROOSHNI HO GI
Here Iqbal talks of Waseela to reach Allah he was not munkir of waseela
Kee Muhammad Se Wafa Tune Tu Hum Tere Hain
Ye Jahaan Cheez Hai Kya Loh o Qalam Tere Hain
Infact, in this verse, Iqbal is promoting nothing but waseela.
Considering a bit more of Iqbal's poetry,
Wo Dana-e-Subul, Khatam-ur-Rusul, Maula-e-Qul Jis Nay
Ghubar-e-Rah Ko Baksha Farogh-e-Wadi-e-Seena
Nigah-e-Ishq-o-Masti Mein Wohi Awal Wohi Akhir
Wohi Quran, Wohi Furqan, Wohi Yasin, Wohi Taha
Here, Iqbal refers to the Holy Prophet (Sallal Laho Alaihai Waalahi Wasalam) as Maula-e-Qul, not to mention Quran itself! and …..tasafoof.
Forget about establisment or any Your understanding of Iqbal's idealogy is very limited. Allama Iqbal was not a munkir of waseela as is evident from his verse,
Kee Muhammad Se Wafa Tune Tu Hum Tere Hain
Ye Jahaan Cheez Hai Kya Loh o Qalam Tere Hain
Infact, in this verse, Iqbal is promoting nothing but waseela.
Considering a bit more of Iqbal's poetry,
Wo Dana-e-Subul, Khatam-ur-Rusul, Maula-e-Qul Jis Nay
Ghubar-e-Rah Ko Baksha Farogh-e-Wadi-e-Seena
Nigah-e-Ishq-o-Masti Mein Wohi Awal Wohi Akhir
Wohi Quran, Wohi Furqan, Wohi Yasin, Wohi Taha
Here, Iqbal refers to the Holy Prophet (Sallal Laho Alaihai Waalahi Wasalam) as Maula-e-Qul, not to mention Quran itself!
Secondaly forget about establishment most of them are munafkin and try to justify their wrong doings.
In taza khudaon main baRa sab se watan hai
Jo pairhan iss ka hai, woh mazhab ka kafan hai
Amongst new gods watan/homeland/nation is the biggest and the things it thrives on or suits it or dresses it is lethal to religion/islam.
IQBAL poetry is DIVIDED IN three phases before 1905( bang e dara)
than 1905- 1908
after 1908-38
Nigah-e-Ishq-o-Masti Mein Wohi Awal Wohi Akhir
Wohi Quran, Wohi Furqan, Wohi Yasin, Wohi Taha [Iqbal and Raja]
======================
Dear Raja Sahab,
Quran is clear and to the point minus some allegorical verses [on which we have faith and we shouldn't try to define that]
I am not as literate like you but for me Awwal and Akhir is Maula i.e. Allah.
Amir Mughal
Please tell me how you inserted an Urdu poem in your post of 9.4.09 above?
Dear Readinglord.
Very simple as some of the members of this forum have already opined "Cut and Paste" from a blog, its in this post:
Muslim Campaign against Wikipedia & Difference between Muslims and Non Muslims
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/03/muslim-c…
http://altafhussainhali.urdupoet.net/mussadis-hal…
http://altafhussainhali.urdupoet.net/mussadis-hal…