Raise Hell to Prevent a possible Honor Killing in Quetta on Thursday

According to a respected womens’ activist Tahira Abdullah she suspects that there is a strong possibility of an honor killing on Thursday morning in Quetta. The issue is about a family dispute regarding a court marriage of Akhtar Hussain and Haseena Bibi. Both have gone through an own-choice marriage and is being challenged by a counter-case by their family members in a counter case.

Haseena is in Dar-ul-Aman, Quetta while Akhtar Hussain has recently been released on bail from prison, the couple fear that they will be killed en-route to or from the court and they have urgently requested for protection & security.

Tahira Abdullah draws the attention of civil society activists, womens organizations and media outlets in Pakistan and across the world to draw immediate attention to this issue, if enough eyes are on this case there is a strong possibility that the culprits would hesitate before committing this heinous crime while I think we must also draw attention of the Government of Pakistan to provide protection and security for the couple with immediate effect.

I share with you Tahira Abdullah’s email which was sent to a number of people today

Dear All,

Wednesday + Thursday morning at 9 a.m., the case of court marriage of Akhtar Hussain & Haseena Bibi is coming up in a court in Quetta – not the High Court. HB is in Dar-ul-Aman Quetta & AH is out on bail from prison. Since it is a counter-case by the family ref own-choice court marriage, they both apprehend that they will be killed (“honour” killing) en route to or from the court. They have urgently requested for protection & security.

Can you pls URGENTLY – today – contact the NCSW/Balochistan members + AF/Quetta to URGENTLY ask the IG/Police, Home Dept. IG/FC to provide security? I feel that the MoWD + Women’s Parliamentary Caucus + Gender Crimes Unit in the National Police Bureau need to be involved URGENTLY also.

Thank you and regards,
Tahira Abdullah


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59 responses to “Raise Hell to Prevent a possible Honor Killing in Quetta on Thursday”

  1. farrahshah Avatar
    farrahshah

    I hope the common sense will prevail and these people will be allowed to live in peace .

    Two people want to live together after marriage that is the most beautiful act and foundation for a family life.It is the basic right given to every man and woman as per Islam and is a Sunnah of Prophet(pbuh) .

    Police must not become a sympathetic party to the families.

    The mind set of the people will be against it .The police head and the Ministers should speak to the Men of both families to bring sense .

    It is preventable and it msut be prevented.

    1. guYasir Avatar
      guYasir

      you're tryin to bring police and minister heads on these issues. do you know accordin to TI which check corruption worldwide. Police is #1 in corruption in pakistan and then power, judiciary, and rest where ministers heads heed

      They're all corrupt and they produce this culture and how cum they be able to get rid? you live in UK so you dont use your mind rather myth… do u understand? or should i put more light on it? or should i start in my unique, insightful and poetic way to describe UK?

  2. Nazia Avatar
    Nazia

    Teeth

    For God sake by creating hell on media you cant guarantee of heaven to that couple in coming days.

    I have no doubt about the sincerity of tahira' but you people cant sustain long term support for that lady who is trying to cut off her roots for new imaginary dream world that hardly exists even in our liberal culture.

    Married life no matter in any class is strongly based on local family traditions and the way it is carried out.

    We can save them once ,twice and for some time but I can assure you that she would spent her whole life as panicky lady who neither can run her life as normal house wife nor will get any kind of reasonable status in the society.

    I am telling you all after seeing the pathetic living conditions of some of those runaway daughters.

    Their destiantion is either in prostituion houses or smuggled to unknown destination for slavery purpose.

    Men are best lovers who are all time ready to take away their lovers but genes of responsible love as caring Husband are quite deficient in this God made specie so ladies shouldnt accept anything from them more than their capability.

    So tahira should first try to guide that lady and man about the reconsideration of their rebellious act that would only take them in future hellish life styles where sooner the effects of erotic disorders would be overpowered by personal security and financial constraints of daily routine life.

    There is no nuptial night after normal married life and in this runaway scenes your all nights turned to be haunted where fears of killing are all time dominant on other affections.

    I can assure you that those unlucky souls who cant receive warmth of love from their blood relations, hardly survive in other environment where their lovers are trying to drag them.

    Or they might think that new life would be more secure and lovable than previous one.

    1. Teeth Maestro Avatar

      Nazia – the issue is to draw enough attention on the case that no one has the gutts to hurt them. Will this media hype deter them or not is not guaranteed AT ALL – but there is no harm in trying – its all the more important that as soon as the media hype begins then the Govt of Pakistan will probably take notice and try to do justice – if they cannot live safely in their home town maybe rehabilitating thme to a secure location might be one strategic move –

      Lets not be judgmental on the reason of their marriage – that is for them to decide who eloped with who is and should not be our concern = our concern is the security of the couple and NOTHING should be justifiable to take their lives – merely on a decision they made on their own

  3. Nazia Avatar
    Nazia

    Farah

    counseling of all parties is only solution of this social problem that is rising more than expectation might be due to exposure of young generation to immature trends of electronic media.

  4. dr jawwad khan Avatar

    completely agreed with @ Nazia!

    i have a personal knowledge about a girl of nice and decent family.the girl was duped by a lecher guy.The family members tried to convince the girl about her wrong decision.Girl refused to listen any thing against her lover. Family members tried to restrict the movement and communication but every thing failed as gril ran away with the boy.the boy used the women right organizations to save himself from the powerful family members…result??

    one BITCH from one organization came to family and threatened the head of the family(her own words)

    "Ziyada hoshiyari dikhanay ki zaroorat naheen hay Barhay miyan! agar —– ko kuch huwa to saray tv channel walay tumharay ghar kay aagay kharhay huway hongay aur tum apna munh apni darhi samet chupatay phiro gay"

    Now,..no one knows where the girl is gone.

    "IN PAKISTAN NO ONE IS ANGEL HERE….EVERY ONE IS CROSSING HIS LIMITS"

    those who are raising more hue and cry are those who trnasgressed more.

  5. Nazia Avatar
    Nazia

    Teeth

    Govt of Pakistan has clear verdict that girl after 18 should be allowed to marry on her will.

    Recent judgment of SC of life imprisonment for culprits who had buried alive three women clearly showing their stance that they want to punish these culprits.

    I am showing you realistic picture of such love stories end can be more dreadful than your timely efforts for securing them.

    This time you are judging the situation on short term basis and I am trying to tell you long term consequences of providing rebellious support to runaway couples.

    These people proudly inherit revenge culture through generations .

    But our culture, social norms deny all such laws as men of backward and tribal areas are highly possessive about their ladies.

    Balochi culture has very unique feature as found in Arabs too.They book their daughters in early age to the man who promise them to give high alimony.

    So special reforms are required to bring permanent change in basic nature of people.

    other wise such preemptive actions can generate violent reactions in particular areas and can create hell like situation for public.

    I had witnessed riots and killing in Karachi where some pukhtoon lady was trying to marry a urdu speaking guy through court verdict and his heirs started riot like situation from court house and halted all life of Karchi for more than 48 hrs.I still remembered that two doctors were burnt alive in their car who were trying to reach in emergency service while a strike was called on in Karachi.

    So how can revengeful family create hell like situation for ordinary people is obvious to all.

  6. Nazia Avatar
    Nazia

    Dr Khan

    You have very good language skills and memory as you have interpreted the aunty witch word to word.

  7. dr jawwad khan Avatar

    Nazia!!

    Sorry for using that word but i have serious doubts about most of the women rights organizations.

  8. dr jawwad khan Avatar

    BTW she was not an aunty. she was a young girl of hardly 30 years of age.

    1. Nazia Avatar
      Nazia

      In our system even girl married at age of 18 is called as bhabi and aunty.

      Somtime tragic but reality has to accept

  9. Nazia Avatar
    Nazia

    Dr

    Human freaks are part of our system but they are becoming dominant on us and our families when we develop weak relations in our family lives.

    Girl child is a special blessing for any family and those who never care for such heavenly gift usually face such consequences where their daughters are all time ready to depart them and willing to break strong bonding of blood relations for temporary and short time support.

    You use these typical abuses for wrong character woman but our men are quite fluent in using these terms to harass woman who come to confront them even in normal discussion.

    1. Aamir Mughal Avatar

      No doubt Girl Child is a blessing and far more loyal to the parents than the boys.

  10. guYasir Avatar
    guYasir

    Raise hell and put each and every hindu and jews in it. The whole world will be a benign place to live in. Put Zardari & co as well.. They are doin kleptocracy under the guise of democracy which they learn from UK a home of Kleptocats.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643479/Benazi

    Jemima wrote BB a klepto..if she then where did she get her edu? no where but from UK so who's the real Klepto aka kak@

    They have made mockery of the rules and real rulers whatever is happening is due to UK imperialism

    They are one beast of this earth described in bible they called it Lion. UK Listen I'm leo the real Lion while you are fake and paper lion I have a prove and I will soon give it all of you.

  11. Imran Malik Avatar
    Imran Malik

    How sad that this is happening at the same time that President Zardari is signing historic bill to protect women from harassment. Inshallah someday no woman will have to live in fear of such barbarians.

    1. guYasir Avatar
      guYasir

      Mr Malik

      That day which you're talkin about will never come rather Qiyamath will come but that day won't come.

      Regardin what 10%0 has signed is just a hallucination which has been provided by his mentors who brought him on power to continue their atrocious aims as it was goin on in Mush rein.

      It is called feminism better say jewry-feminism which is a gift of gulag for any woman.

      They are giving rights to woman to seek power, to go out and seek jobs either Blue or Blow understand?

      Or should i put more light on it? or should i strip your Zardari and co clothes and make em naked in front of the whole world. Historic Bill. what a halluci-Nations

  12. Aamir Mughal Avatar

    Raise Hell to Prevent a possible Honor Killing in Quetta on Thursday [Dr Awab]

    ====================

    Saudi Scholars Ruling on Honour Killing – Part 1.

    "QUOTE"

    Honour Killing is also Haram of highest degree as per Quran and Hadith.

    Killing a Muslim unlawfully is a serious matter and a grave crime. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell to abide therein; and the Wrath and the Curse of Allaah are upon him, and a great punishment is prepared for him” [al-Nisa’ 4:93]

    Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The believer will continue to be encompassed by the mercy of Allaah so long as he does not shed blood that it is forbidden to shed.” [Bukhari and Muslim]

    The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has explained to us the reasons for which it becomes permissible to shed this blood. He said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god but Allaah and that I am the Messenger of Allaah except in three cases: a life for a life (murder), zina of one of who is previously-married (adultery), and the one who changes his religion and forsakes the jamaa’ah.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari and Muslim. From this it is clear that zina on the part of one who is married is one of the reasons that make it permissible to kill a person, but the zaani (adulterer) cannot be killed unless two conditions are met:

    -1-

    He should be previously-married. The scholars have explained what is meant by previously-married in this case. Zakariya al-Ansaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Asna’l-Mataalib (4/128): The previously-married person, whether male or female, is any adult of sound mind who has previously had intercourse within a valid marriage. End quote. Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Sharh al-Zaad (6/120): There are five conditions for (being described as) previously-married:

    1- Intercourse

    2- Within a valid marriage

    3- Being an adult

    4- Being of sound reason

    5- Being free (i.e., not a slave).

    Cont/P-2

  13. Aamir Mughal Avatar

    Raise Hell to Prevent a possible Honor Killing in Quetta on Thursday [Dr Awab]

    ====================

    Saudi Scholars Ruling on Honour Killing – Part 2.

    “QUOTE”

    -2-

    The second condition is that it should be proven that the hadd punishment is deserved, by the testimony of four male witnesses who saw the private parts meet, or the person should freely admit to having committed zina, without being forced to do so.

    If it is proven that he deserves the hadd punishment, it is not permissible for individuals to carry out this punishment themselves. Rather the matter must be referred to the ruler or his deputy to prove the crime and carry out the punishment, because if individuals carry out hadd punishments, that will lead to a great deal of corruption and evil.

    Ibn Muflih al-Hanbali (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Furoo’ (6/53): It is haraam for anyone to carry out a hadd punishment except the ruler or his deputy. This is something on which the fuqaha’ of Islam are unanimously agreed, as was stated in al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (5/280): The fuqaha’ are unanimously agreed that the one who should carry out hadd punishments is the ruler or his deputy, whether the punishment is transgressing one of the limits of Allaah, may He be exalted, such as zina, or a transgression against another person, such as slander. End quote.

    Concealing one who has committed this evil deed so that he may repent and set his affairs straight before he dies is better than exposing him, let alone killing him. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) turned away from Maa’iz (may Allaah be pleased with him) after he admitted committing zina, and he ignored him until he had repeated his confession several times, then he carried out the hadd punishment on him. [Bukhaari and Muslim]

    Based on this, that which is called “honour killing” is a transgression and wrongdoing, because it is killing one who does not deserve to be killed, namely the virgin if she commits zina (fornication), but the shar’i punishment in her case is flogging and banishment for one year, not execution, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “(The punishment for zina) of a virgin with a virgin person is one hundred lashes and exile for one year.” Narrated by Muslim. The one who kills her has killed a believing soul whom Allaah has forbidden to be killed, and there is a stern warning concerning that, as Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And those who invoke not any other ilaah (god) along with Allaah, nor kill such person as Allaah has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse ___ and whoever does this shall receive the punishment.

    69. The torment will be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace”

    [al-Furqaan 25:68-69]

    Even if we assume that she deserves to be executed (if she was previously-married and committed zina), no one should do that but the ruler – as stated above. Moreover, in many cases killing is done on the basis of accusations and speculation, without proving whether the immoral action even took place.

    And Allaah knows best.

    Sheikh Muhammad Salih Al-Munajjid [Scholar and Mufti in Al Khubar Saudi Arbaia]

    "UNQUOTE"

  14. Nazia Avatar
    Nazia

    Mughal

    Your all information are very informative but we as Muslim community have to accept that rich and strong Muslim groups never followed such strict punishment and application of such laws seem to be limited only for lower class and weak genders.

    In royal palaces of Saudis some times young beautiful wives of old shiekhs are found dead without any reason but internal sources leak that these were victims of honour killings

    As a student of Islamic law do you think that witness of four still valid or remain logical in this matter of zina, adultery or in gang rape crimes?

    Honor killing is existing in all Muslim countries.

    Civilized people are still involved in this kind of honor killing in some scientific manner whereas in tribal and rural area brutal ways are adopted to cool down anger of blood relations.

    Sometimes property matters are also covered on this name.

    Our all feudal representatives directly or indirectly involve in this honor killing deals.

    You Know when nawaz sharif's daughter resisted to marry for an ordinary captain belong to very lower status as compare to tycoons of business, nawaz's father also decided same kind of fate for her but here the love of father had become dominant and now she is enjoying her married life with same captain.

    So Situation can be handled but through power of love for families and specially daughters.

    Any punishable laws can give protection to few but integrated results can only be achieved through social reforms and brain washing of weak minded people.

    1. guYasir Avatar
      guYasir

      1st of all I would like to say that these all bumpkins have no real knowledge of their own religion who do honor killings. Saudi rulers are 'bumpkins #1' in all nothin but but materialistic creed.

      A man becomes a man when he finally doesn't put any man or woman above him.

      We should ask ourselves 1st whether are we Believers instead of Patriotic as prescribe by Quran and Hadiths.

      Unfortunately, large part of not the Koranic text itself but itz interpretation has been infiltrated and on the other hand large part of Hadiths have also infiltrated.

      Regarding 4 witness, If a person makes an allegation of adultery against another person (male or female), only then he or she must produce four witnesses to support such an allegation: And those who accuse chaste women [of adultery] and then do not produce four witnesses…. otherwise, he or she is guilty of slandering, which is a grave offense in Islam.

      To insist that the raped victim must provide witnesses is akin to inflicting further pain on her. If anyone refutes her claim of innocence, the onus is on him to provide evidence, and she may simply deny the claim by making a solemn oath, thus clearing herself in public.

      Regarding Rape and Rapist. According to the majority opinion of Muslim scholars, rape is considered as hirabah (highway robbery or terrorism) and hence rapists are to be punished according to the hirabah laws, as highlighted in the Quran.

      But who read it we read our BBA, MBA, CA Books rather than our Holy Book ourselves rather read other work and other interpretations which sometimes can be misled.

      Allah knows well and wrath well the oppressors.

    2. Aamir Mughal Avatar

      Two police officers beheaded in Saudi Arabia So far for 2009, there have been 11 beheadings in the Oil Kingdom. The record was set in 2007 with 153 such executions. Monday, February 23, 2009 http://www.speroforum.com/a/18254/Two-police-offi

  15. Aamir Mughal Avatar

    Unfortunately, large part of not the Koranic text itself but itz interpretation has been infiltrated [guYasir says:

    March 11, 2010 at 1:38 am]

    =======================

    Dear Sir,

    Identify which Part of Quranic Text and it's interpretation is Infiltrated.

    1. Nazia Avatar
      Nazia

      Yasir

      it is not only rich saudis but hezbullah fighters are also following strange attitude in abnormal marriage deals . .For your quick review I have few pieces for you.
      http://infidelsarecool.com/2009/07/31/gaza-hamas-
      Another article is quite interesting I found in foreign polciy magazine and here you can find me too discussing with non Muslims .

      The Militarization of Sex

      The story of Hezbollah's halal hookups.
      http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/11/25/
      The same kind of attitude is also being observed in Taliban regime trying to dominant in our northern side and border areas.

      Such acts are also accounted in taking cover up of religion for abnormal desires of abnormal muslim men,

  16. Aamir Mughal Avatar

    guYasir says: March 11, 2010 at 1:38 am Unfortunately, large part of not the Koranic text itself but itz interpretation has been infiltrated and on the other hand large part of Hadiths have also infiltrated.

    =====================

    Dear Sir,

    Who, do you think collected and protected the Quran? Angels?

    About the promise to protect the Qur'an, there is no such verse which suggests that Allah will protect the Quran only.

    ุฅูู†ูŽู‘ุง ู†ูŽุญู’ู†ู ู†ูŽุฒูŽู‘ู„ู’ู†ูŽุง ุงู„ุฐูู‘ูƒู’ุฑูŽ ูˆูŽุฅูู†ูŽู‘ุง ู„ูŽู‡ู ู„ูŽุญูŽุงููุธููˆู†ูŽ

    Lo! We, even We, reveal the Reminder, and lo! We verily are its Guardian. [AL-HIJR (AL-HIJR, STONELAND, ROCK CITY) Chapter 15 – Verse 9]

    The word used in the Arabic text is 'Zikr' which can be applied to both Qur'an and Ahaadeeth.

  17. Aamir Mughal Avatar

    Agreed with you on Hiraba guYasir says: March 11, 2010 at 1:38 am Regarding Rape and Rapist. According to the majority opinion of Muslim scholars, rape is considered as hirabah (highway robbery or terrorism) and hence rapists are to be punished according to the hirabah laws, as highlighted in the Quran.

    —————————–

    ุฅูู†ูŽู‘ู…ูŽุง ุฌูŽุฒูŽุงุก ุงู„ูŽู‘ุฐููŠู†ูŽ ูŠูุญูŽุงุฑูุจููˆู†ูŽ ุงู„ู„ู‘ู‡ูŽ ูˆูŽุฑูŽุณููˆู„ูŽู‡ู ูˆูŽูŠูŽุณู’ุนูŽูˆู’ู†ูŽ ูููŠ ุงู„ุฃูŽุฑู’ุถู ููŽุณูŽุงุฏู‹ุง ุฃูŽู† ูŠูู‚ูŽุชูŽู‘ู„ููˆุงู’ ุฃูŽูˆู’ ูŠูุตูŽู„ูŽู‘ุจููˆุงู’ ุฃูŽูˆู’ ุชูู‚ูŽุทูŽู‘ุนูŽ ุฃูŽูŠู’ุฏููŠู‡ูู…ู’ ูˆูŽุฃูŽุฑู’ุฌูู„ูู‡ูู… ู…ูู‘ู†ู’ ุฎูู„ุงูู ุฃูŽูˆู’ ูŠูู†ููŽูˆู’ุงู’ ู…ูู†ูŽ ุงู„ุฃูŽุฑู’ุถู ุฐูŽู„ููƒูŽ ู„ูŽู‡ูู…ู’ ุฎูุฒู’ูŠูŒ ูููŠ ุงู„ุฏูู‘ู†ู’ูŠูŽุง ูˆูŽู„ูŽู‡ูู…ู’ ูููŠ ุงู„ุขุฎูุฑูŽุฉู ุนูŽุฐูŽุงุจูŒ ุนูŽุธููŠู…ูŒ

    The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; [AL-MAEDA (THE TABLE, THE TABLE SPREAD) Chapter 5 Verse 33]

    Hands and legs to be cut off and their eyes to be branded with heated iron pieces and they were thrown at Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink, they were not given water. (Bukhari)

    HIRABA includes [means killing people, robbing their money or raping women by an armed group of people]

    Hiraba is another hadd crime defined in the Quran. It is variously translated as "forcible taking," "highway robbery," "terrorism," or "waging war against the state."

    "QUOTE"

    Islamic legal scholars have interpreted this crime to be any type of forcible assault upon the people involving some sort of taking of property.74 It differs from ordinary theft in that the Quranic crime of theft (sariqa) is a taking by stealth whereas hiraba is a taking by force (Doi 1984, 250, 254; El-Awa 1982, 7). (Thus, the popular translation as "armed robbery.") Although it is generally assumed to be violent public harassment, many scholars have held that it is not limited to acts committed in public places (Sabiq 1993, 2:447).

    It is in the discussions of the crime of hiraba where the crime of rape appears. A brief review of the traditional descriptions of hiraba reveals that rape is specifically included among its various forms. For example, in Fiqh-us-Sunnah, a modern summary of the primary traditional schools of thought on Islamic law, hiraba is described as: a single person or group of people causing public disruption, killing, forcibly taking property or money, attacking or raping women ("hatk al arad"), killing cattle, or disrupting agriculture (Sabiq 1993, 450). Reports of individual scholars on the subject further confirm the hiraba classification of rape. Al-Dasuqi, for example, a Maliki jurist, held that if a person forced a woman to have sex, their actions would be deemed as committing hiraba (Doi 1984, 253). In addition, the Maliki judge Ibn Arabi, relates a story in which a group was attacked and a woman in their party raped. Responding to the argument that the crime did not constitute hiraba because no money was taken and no weapons used, Ibn Arabi replied indignantly that "hiraba with the private parts" is much worse than a hiraba involving the taking of money, and that anyone would rather be subjected to the latter than the former (Sabiq 1993, 2:450). The famous Spanish Muslim jurist, Ibn Hazm, a follower of the Zahiri school, reportedly had the widest definition of hiraba, defining a hiraba offender as: [O]ne who puts people in fear on the road, whether or not with a weapon, at night or day, in urban areas or in open spaces, in the palace of a caliph or a mosque, with or without accomplices, in the desert or in the village, in a large or small city, with one or more people . . . making people fear that they'll be killed, or have money taken, or be raped ("hatk al arad") . . . whether the attackers are one or many (Sabiq 1993, 2:450)."

    "UNQUOTE"

    Paedophile rapist to be beheaded and crucified in Saudi Arabia Wednesday, 4 November 2009 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-ea

    1. Nazia Avatar
      Nazia

      Sorry Mughal

      I have become victim of gun point robberies and closed to scenes of terrorism events.My family members have bee hit or just near missed in differnt tragedies done on our streets .

      I have seen many victims of worst robberies and terrorism happening in my country for last many years.

      But I cant equalize that intensity of such crimes which have no match with gang rape or zina like crimes.

      Gang rapes kill one self's respect and victim even hates her/his body and presence of human beings around them.

      Zina creates and produces an adulterated relation among strong human relation sometimes in prostitution dens or in sacred houses which ultimately bring disaster on identity of human relations.

      I am surprised that you are impressed by double standards of Saudis justice.There exist complete different laws for rich and poor.

      I have seen all kinds of wine bottles available to influential Saudis home.

      I Have seen the scenes that the young of rich saudis are openly found dating in modern restaurants of saudia.Although the ladies were in aabaya but their frankness to saudi guys clearly shown us that they have deep rooted relations with them more than dating .

      In Dubai I have come to know that upper suites of Emmar towers are only booked for such sheikhs where all kind of paradisaical facilities are available to them.

      Might be for making them ready how to live in Jannat among 70 hoors.

      So dont take the standard of Saudis punishment as an ideal islamic system.

      They own the worst kind of Islamic leadership as they never practice any law and norms on them except which suit them for enjoying their life styles.

      Get the date of civil war in any Muslim state where Wahhabi are not dominant you would find that funds and arms are supplied to insurgents from saudi sources.

  18. Nazia Avatar
    Nazia

    Yasir

    here the point I wanted to bring under notice of wise men of this forum.

    Beyond the paper work and theory of islamic laws.

    Try to undermine the real depth of such irrecoverable crime in an islamic society.

    One thing I assure you that such particular crimes like rape, gang rape,Zina and molestation usually occur in confined, remote areas or in front of accomplices only.

    Lets consider yourself that you are a victim of gang rape or rape.

    or if you are young maid of any house where male members have molested you for years in absence of any witness.This is one of serious crime being done in our surrounding for centuries and almost found in all cultures.

    Can you bring a single witness in such matters who impartially support you for the sin done by their friend and relative.

    You say

    According to the majority opinion of Muslim scholars, rape is considered as hirabah (highway robbery or terrorism) and hence rapists are to be punished according to the hirabah laws, as highlighted in the Quran

    High way robbery and terrorism are very minor crimes as compare to molestation and rapes as previous one are materialistic loss and can be recovered but latter one if done can cause moral destruction of victim along with her family members.

    Psychological studies also reveal that molested child for longer periods or rape victims have less chance of normal rehabilitation as compared to robbery and terrorism.

    That is why people try to hide this crime as no one wants to stand in witness box due to its irrecoverable vulnerability in conservative human society.

    It has another aspect too that sometime revenge of angry woman can become charge of rape or attempted rape to a man.

    In this case again one cant find a witness.

    So Muslim scholars are not very successful in interpenetrating and applying such laws in our system.

    Even Islam is quite silent in matters of status of illegitimate child resulting of such sins done by adults in an islamic society .

    Most of ulemas are against abortions but ready to give fatwa of abortion in case of rape and molestation victim.

    Is it justify in Islamic society that a human life can be killed like that for covering the sins of adults?

    So in ground realities such crimes are being committed without any fear of punishment because fulcrum of benefit is tended toward the sinners who only need a simple opportunity to show his skills to weak genders.

    1. Aamir Mughal Avatar

      I just posted the comment to present Islamic Point of view on Honour Killing and Rape [Author of is quoted to avoid the charge of Plagiarism otherwise Fatwa of Saudi Arabia on Honour Killing/Rape/Hiraba was Just quotation from Quran and Hadith and should be adopted by Pakistan and other Muslim Countries] and yes Social Reforms are needed in every Muslim Country and that include Saudi Arabia.

    2. Aamir Mughal Avatar

      Even Islam is quite silent in matters of status of illegitimate child resulting of such sins done by adults in an islamic society. [Nazia]

      ======================

      If you are looking for quick references then try this:

      http://www.islam-qa.com/en/search2/illegitimate%2

    3. Aamir Mughal Avatar

      An illegitimate child does not bear any sin because of his parents’ having committed the sin of zinaa (unlawful sexual intercourse), because that was not of his doing. They bear their own sin, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings):

      “… He gets reward for that (good) which he has earned, and he is punished for that (evil) which he has earned…” [al-Baqarah 2:286]

      “… no bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another…” [al-An’aam 6:164]

  19. dr jawwad khan Avatar

    So in ground realities such crimes are being committed without any fear of punishment because fulcrum of benefit is tended toward the sinners who only need a simple opportunity to show his skills to weak genders.

    __________________________________________________________

    Nazia!

    do not underestimate the divine wisdom and practicality behind islamic injunctions and hudood laws.

    there are few things one need to understand that:

    1) Zina bil raza and zina bil jabar are two different things inspite of technical similarity of the crime.

    2) for the Zina bil raza muslims are asked to produce 4 eye witness. why not 2 eye witness? how can one produce 4 eye witness for this crime? it simply means that penality is reserved for only public demonstration of Zina bil Raza, not zina bil raza itself.For them punishment is reserved in hereafter unless they repent and forgiven by Allah(swt).

    Islam is not silent in birth of illigitimate child.Ulema are united in the judgement that birth out of wedlock is not the reason to apply the islamic punishment of zina.

    3) Zina bil jabr, is considered as fisad fil ard.Because the victim is not willing in this crime and as you said that it leaves the permanant scars on the personality of the victim.If you include this crime under hudood laws.then you have to produce four witness which is impossible for any victim of rape.(this point was highly exploited by liberal scholar Mr.Javed Ghamdi and convinced many people that it is a fundamental flaw in hudood ordinance till Mufti Taqi Ahmed Usmani revealed the reality of this claim)

    this paper will help you understand this issue:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/21687371/The-Reality-of

    4) the reality is burried under piles of files in a dusty store room some where. What is ruling on our hearts and mind is just a propaganda of women rights activists.

    1. Aamir Mughal Avatar

      Is Banking Halal in Islam? This Haram act [Banking] was made Halal by Usmani Brothers???

      Islamic banking, TV channels against Shariah, declare religious scholars By News Desk 8/30/2008
      http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=132

    2. Nazia Avatar
      Nazia

      Dr khan

      lets make things simpler by extracting points from you and mughal point of views.

      Zina bil jabbar comes in rape and molestation.

      Have you met any witness in your professional life who claim that they all simply watched such heinous crime till it end successfully and then they bring this incident in front of Qazi?

      You have already accepted its failure of reaching to criminals.So what is solution of such crimes which are happening around us unchecked.

      Zina bil raza comes in circle of adultery or extramarital relations where partners cant control their erotic disorders.

      So here in such crime scenes you need 4 witnesses or 4 accomplices who first enjoyed the scene and then ready to become witness?

      How this highly impure act that demolish the sanctity of all pure human relations in a family life that is always core point of any Islamic society, is reserved to punish only for public demonstration.

      I am still unable that why we Muslims are afraid of accepting that there are serious loop holes in practicality of such laws.

      The laws whether comes from divines or through social reforms, must first fulfill the purpose of justice of equality . and here in such huddod laws serious flaws are observed.

      In Muslim societies, rich are ignored and poor are targeted under hudood laws.

      Give me name of any rich and influential person who have ever come under zina bel raza.

      Tehmina durrani confessed in her book that she, her mother and khar were all time involved in such acts.

      Governor salman taseer 'sillegitimate son is known to all.

      Daughter of Imran khan through seetha white has clear proof of his extra martial relationship.

      irfan ullah marwat and capt hammad rape attempts

      and many many more .

      Our most of film actresses are illegitimate children of noble citizens of our state.

      Do any body ever raised any brow against them?

      Same in all posh areas guest houses and now massage centers, elite class are busy in such immodest acts.

      Where are 4 witness in such crime scene but surely 100 of accomplices are involved as aider behind such scenes.

      These accomplices take no time when some weak characters of society are found .

      I am sure you would again tell me as Mughal always say that dont mingle the laws with human sinful attitude.

      No it is not like that actually such laws have become tools of influential groups to handle the lower class and they are exploiting these laws on poor masses keeping them free of any strict Islamic restriction for themselves and their families.

      Nothing is dominant on my mind as propaganda of women NGOs but I am seeing the brittle effects of such laws on our Islamic societies.

      We have to amend these laws by getting the real data of such crimes.This data is quite available in good social workers or in psychological departments of all universities.

      We only need courage to say that white collar rapist, heinous killers are living among us or on ruling seats and we have to unveil them and prosecute them too so that weak genders should have courage to stand against such irrevocable crimes.

      We couldnt save the millions of lost souls who had been target of monstrous sexual nature of man through these laws but saving others after knowing all reality should be demand of time.

  20. guYasir Avatar
    guYasir

    @Mughal and Nazia.. This is a quick reply of mine for u

    If there's one Allah and one Koran and One Prophet then how come there are so many sects in between sunni and shitte sects they both have been divided sordidly.???

    How come there are so many diff mosques of each sect? how cum there are few sunni-sect who deny the authentication of hadiths and say the Koran we accept not any hadith???

    1st take Saudi bumpkins rest you can imagine in your mind what did i say in my above comment and whats goin on in our countries. if you are an adept instead @$$ u can get the bigger picture.

    I read in express newspaper few days back that Saudi arbia is facing worst divorce rate in its history. Why??

    You must be aware of Prince Sheikh Al Waleed bin Talal an Arab Warren Buffet he gave an interview to one US Journalist

    I read whole few yrs back…you can google and can get I don't remember its URL…

    US journalist ask him. Why there's so much terrorism in your country and why folks does support OBL?

    He replied: Sir, these kind of groups are in every country and in Saudia few does support OBL group and few does support us. This is the case in most countries.

    He continues, leave them look to me as an example of muslim-moderate. I bought a 5* hotel in Paris and i wrote (calligraphy) Sura Rehman verse on the back of the main ground floor counter wall which is the famous verse which repeats you must get it..haan?

    Ok u understand? then he said and on the counter I sell WINE. Does Koran permit any1 to sell and buy and drink any WINE/ALCOHOL? what else will be happened on the above rooms of the hotel i shouldn't need to mention….and this is the prime example of Muslim apo-states. we all are

    Now no zina is allow, regarding illegitimate child, one must not commit zina else he can be saved in dis world but not hereafter and these childs are rampant esp in western countries.

    In conclusion, This is an illuminati aka kana dajjal fitna and reminiscent of hindu/buddha culture and financial system is based on USury which is the root cause of immorality an all other carnal garbage you have noticed.

    One Q of Nazia is left when she put me and ask to bring witness well if you put yourself instead me then can get better answer than me

    Hope you understand and please don't be Super-fluous in your comments esp Mugal. one guy says rightly Nazia if you wanna comment go to Mugal wall and do post what you want or Dr JK was write when he gave suggestion to u to create a blog and write whatever you want and derive to pull traffic as Teeth is doing and even I did in my 1st month i got around 1000 of hits

    All praise due to Allah not because of any Prince.

    1. Aamir Mughal Avatar

      If there’s one Allah and one Koran and One Prophet then how come there are so many sects in between sunni and shitte sects they both have been divided sordidly.??? How come there are so many diff mosques of each sect? how cum there are few sunni-sect who deny the authentication of hadiths and say the Koran we accept not any hadith???

      ====================

      Is Allah or Islam responsible for this deviancy or few people who were Muslims?

      I read in express newspaper few days back that Saudi arbia is facing worst divorce rate in its history. Why??

      ==============

      Provide the source please and even if there are divorces then what is so wrong because Divorce [though detested] but Allowed and Halal.

      You must be aware of Prince Sheikh Al Waleed bin Talal an Arab Warren Buffet he gave an interview to one US Journalist

      =================

      I am aware about Waleed but please explain what he has said???

    2. Nazia Avatar
      Nazia

      Yasir

      Have I ever criticized on you that how cheap and disgusting your blog is.

      I once clicked it mistakenly and after this filthy review I never thought of repeating such mistake again.

      Very sorry to say like that as this is cheap and filthy from my point of view and I have no right to interfere in your private and personal display.You can bring more cheap and low rating literature and photos here as your personal liking as choice.

      So same thing I accept from you.

      It is none of your business where I SHOULD land for discussion.

      I talk and reply to mughal in same superfluous manners as I am talking to other people.

      I am even not interested now who is real or impostors as I have learnt thru bad experience that people love to make fool others by using different techniques of having multiple identities.

      So thanks for your all time taunts.

      You would be more creative in your colorful blog if concentrate on it only.

      I am sure traffic in your blog would be more than TM where you are attacking public for no reason.

    3. guYasir Avatar
      guYasir

      I delete my blog last night because I have nothin to show and nothin to write further and I have told you where my link was running and where i got the praised in 3 words b4 blogging and even b4 knowing Teeth blog. Neither I need adsense money…If I start telling about my lifestyle so you might say.

      Really fantastic joke of 2010.

      JK keep goin; I am leaving

  21. dr jawwad khan Avatar

    "Dr JK was write when he gave suggestion to u to create a blog and write whatever you want"

    __________________________________________________________

    i gave this suggestion with sincerity and in appericiation.

    1. guYasir Avatar
      guYasir

      yar jawwad. is mughal ko samjao sala pagal hogia hai, he's misinterpreting my comments and other as well.

      go take a nap mr mughal or join your agency again and work for it…you're misleading all of us…wat prince said i told more go find urself in his ass…yar yeh salay saray apni myth use ker thay na ka apna mind…mindless morons

  22. Aamir Mughal Avatar

    Get the date of civil war in any Muslim state where Wahhabi are not dominant you would find that funds and arms are supplied to insurgents from saudi sources.

    ============================

    Reference?

    1. Nazia Avatar
      Nazia

      Mughal

      you are more net worm than me in this blogging world.

      so demand of such reference is little surprise for me.Would you deny that talibanisation process is product of Saudi type religious themes which have been tried to impose on our illiterate class through ISI.

      Any how I have read lot of reference where sound proofs are available that how saudi funds on the name of region and social work was diverted toward insurgency and terrorism under monitoring of fanatic clerics.

      I got few clips for your review

      The Bush-Saudi Connection

      About 45% of all foreign militants targeting U.S. troops and Iraqi civilians and security forces are from Saudi Arabia; 15% are from Syria and Lebanon; and 10% are from North Africa, according to official U.S. military figures made available to The Times by the senior officer. Nearly half of the 135 foreigners in U.S. detention facilities in Iraq are Saudis, he said.

      Fighters from Saudi Arabia are thought to have carried out more suicide bombings than those of any other nationality, said the senior U.S. officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the subject's sensitivity. It is apparently the first time a U.S. official has given such a breakdown on the role played by Saudi nationals in Iraq's Sunni Arab insurgency.

      He said 50% of all Saudi fighters in Iraq come here as suicide bombers. In the last six months, such bombings have killed or injured 4,000 Iraqis.

      http://www.hermes-press.com/BushSaud.htm

      Subversion from Within: Saudi Funding of Islamic Extremist Groups Undermining U.S. Interests and the War on Terror from within the United States

      Featuring Matthew Levitt
      http://www.thewashingtoninstitute.com/print.php?t

      BOSNIA: TERRORISM’S LOGISTICAL BASE

      Defense & Foreign Affairs Strategic Policy, October 2004 [Terrorism – Staff report]

      Saudis and Iranians Work Together Through a Bosnian Terrorist Group to Support the Conflict in Chechnya

      http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org/dfasc1004.htm

  23. Aamir Mughal Avatar

    guYasir says: March 11, 2010 at 8:13 pm yar jawwad. is mughal ko samjao sala pagal hogia hai, he’s misinterpreting my comments and other as well.

    ======================

    Sir,

    Where did I misquote, please recheck again I have re-posted your own comment and raised a question.

  24. dr jawwad khan Avatar

    "Is Allah or Islam responsible for this deviancy or few people who were Muslims?"

    __________________________

    Kindly do not take Yasir's comments lightly and literally.He did not ask that question in doubt but in admonition.He is the nephew of of Dr.Israr Ahmed and firmly believes in islam.

    ===================================================

    "Provide the source please and even if there are divorces then what is so wrong because Divorce [though detested] but Allowed and Halal"

    ____________________________

    Halal but unpleasent near Allah(swt).Because divorce means the failure of the contract which is given to mankind by Allah(swt) in order to refrain humanity from heinous crime of zina.increase in rate of divorce indicates the moral degradation of the society and ultimately will leads to zina and other similar crimes.

    ==================================================

    "I am aware about Waleed but please explain what he has said???"

    ______________________________

    yasir was pointing at moral degradation took place in saudi society at different levels so saying that what is the benefit of the islamic punishment if it is applicable only on common man.so please do not tell what is going on in saudia….ok?

    1. Aamir Mughal Avatar

      Kindly do not take Yasir’s comments lightly and literally.He did not ask that question in doubt but in admonition.He is the nephew of of Dr.Israr Ahmed and firmly believes in islam. [Dr Jawwad Khan]

      ======================

      Dear Jawwad Sahab,

      Being Dr Israr's nephew doesn't give you the license of piety and nor it does give one the licence of using profanity. By the way I didn't raise finger on GuySir's faith for which you are clarifying for him being a Good Muslim.

    2. Nazia Avatar
      Nazia

      Yasir is nephew of dr Israr

      Really dr khan first time I am goona impressed by your sense of humour.

      Really fantastic joke of 2010.

  25. dr jawwad khan Avatar

    and help me finding the scholarly article of professor afshan jafar "engaging fundamentalism: a case for women NGOs in pakistan"

    dimagh ka dahi ban chuka hay magar mil kay hi nahee day raha…

    1. guYasir Avatar
      guYasir

      JK

      I won't stop you next when you ping any chick or dick. Esp these 2 morons M.N

      I delete my blog last night because I have nothin to show and nothin to write further and I have told you where my link was running and where i got the praised in 3 words. Neither I need adsense money…If I start telling about my lifestyle so you might say esp N.M will say

      Really fantastic joke of 2010.

      JK keep goin; I am leaving

    2. Nazia Avatar
      Nazia

      Yasir you declare

      Esp these 2 morons M.N
      Would you clarify exactly
      just for sake of general knowledge. nothing more

  26. Nazia Avatar
    Nazia

    Mughal

    I found this extract from your provided link

    illegitimate child does not bear any sin because of his parents’ having committed the sin of zinaa (unlawful sexual intercourse), because that was not of his doing. They bear their own sin, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings):

    “… He gets reward for that (good) which he has earned, and he is punished for that (evil) which he has earned…” [al-Baqarah 2:286]

    “… no bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another…” [al-An’aam 6:164]

    With regard to his ultimate destiny, the illegitimate person is like anyone else: if he obeys Allaah and does righteous deeds, and dies as a Muslim, then Paradise will be his; if he disobeys Allaah and dies as a kaafir, then he will be one of the people of Hell. If he mixes righteous deeds and bad deeds, and dies as a Muslim, then his fate is up to Allaah: if He wills, He will forgive him, if He wills, He will punish him, and his eventual admission to Paradise will be by the Grace and Mercy of Allaah. As for the hadeeth which says that an illegitimate person will not enter Paradise, this is a fabrication (falsely attributed to the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)). And Allaah knows best.

    Kindly tell me name of any little place in any Islamic society or any examples found actually in time of Holy Prophet, four caliphs and other Suhabahs where such fatwa had given official status to illegitimate child,

    I am again asking you to whom this child should go for his real identification for normal upbringing.

    Give me any form of inheritance law, moral laws ,state laws that protect such unlucky child in an islamic society.

    I am looking for real examples please dont limit to only paper work for neglected and weak characters of Muslim world.

    1. Aamir Mughal Avatar

      I have given you the link above, search. By the way Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] and his Companions [May Allah be pleased with them] and their Companions [May Allah have mercy on their soul] and their Companions [May Allah have mercy on their souls] never issued Fatwa on hypothetical issues [read Mawatta Imam Malik] until and unless it is actually happened they prefer to not to open their mouth, therefore the Fatwas on this issues may please be taken as "Ijtihad" because nobody in the [Blessed Times – Three Blessed Generation as mentioned in the first sentence] was expected to take his/her illegitimate child [for fatwa] and would've come back without Punishment.

  27. guYasir Avatar
    guYasir

    Nazia says: I once clicked it mistakenly and after this filthy review I never thought of repeating such mistake again.

    Very sorry to say like that as this is cheap and filthy from my point of view and I have no right to interfere in your private and personal display.You can bring more cheap and low rating literature and photos here as your personal liking as choice.

    _________________________________________________

    What did I post there? Did I post porn-pictures?

    1st picture of my post was lion chasing hyena and lion torso was covered with Pak Flag and Hyena torso was covered with India and Israel Flag. And the heading was I wanna Rule the wOrld.

    Rest 4 main page posts for the westerners who came from Eric Margolis page and I guess there was nothin wrong neither in text nor in pics…It was just fun because i just updated last week in one single day because i didn't write anythin since sweet-eid

    You didn't even bother to check my blog achieve and read my July, august, and September 09 some key articles like Democracy is a rUSe. India and Israel are halluci-Nations. Protocols of Zion: Mankind Death Wish. Marranos who worship Mammon. Obama-geddon VS Osama-geddon and my Freedom of Speech to India etc.

    You just visited my blog main page and started passing your comments about my blog as usual according to your habit which you do here.

    If you didn't read my above articles then you missed the chance and for your kind info I deleted my blog last night because I have nothin to show and nothin to write further and I have told you where my link was running and where i got the praised in 3 words b4 blogging and even b4 knowing Teeth blog. Neither I need adsense money…

    There are plenty of more praises of mine which i don't wanna tell becuz i don't want to admire myself else one will think im bragging and showing-off. I just told you one which is i guess good for your health.

    If I start telling about my lifestyle like i spent dollar and euro in my country without ever goin to any foreign country unlike most of you then you will surely say.

    Really fantastic joke of 2010.

    Happy Halluci-Nation

    1. Nazia Avatar
      Nazia

      Yasir

      I had already made an early sorry for my over reactive comments about your blog.Just to show you that hitting/taunting others are most easy job in this world.

      This is all in return of your golden lines in which you said:

      "Hope you understand and please don’t be Super-fluous in your comments esp Mugal. one guy says rightly Nazia if you wanna comment go to Mugal wall and do post what you want or Dr JK was write when he gave suggestion to u to create a blog and write whatever you want and derive to pull traffic as Teeth is doing and even I did in my 1st month i got around 1000 of hits"

      You attacked me in @21 and I responded you in same way that we all are mature enough to decide what should we do as per our temperament.

      I have no problem with your blog as I am use to of all kinds of company from orthodox to liberals even out of track like people regardless of their age groups and gender classification.

      You are free to present in this net world same as I want to visit TM in my free time or tea breaks.

      You are not in need of adsense money but wants to spend earned dollars and euros in your country through your style, is again your personal acts and if you need my help for any good cause let me know without adding irrelevant taunt to your normal discussion.

      I am not interested in my personal blogging as I don't think I am capable of doing this and secondly I always take tasks as some kind of responsibility so at this time I cant spare time to such responsibility which is linked with my personal interests.

      Never think that I am trying to malice you but reacting to irrelevant comments is unavoidable for me and I showed you same intensity.

      By the way I termed best joke of 2010 on remarks of Dr khan about you and it has no link with your blogs and taunts.

      Enjoy you happy styles in your ways without using courtyard of others for throwing your spill of angers.

      Wishing you best in real life.

  28. Aamir Mughal Avatar

    Nazia says: March 11, 2010 at 11:07 pm Mughal you are more net worm than me in this blogging world. so demand of such reference is little surprise for me.

    ===============

    Yes you are correct.

    Former Pakistani Officer Embodies a Policy Puzzle By CARLOTTA GALL Published: March 3, 2010 A version of this article appeared in print on March 4, 2010, on page A6 of the New York edition. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/world/asia/04im
    Once a promising protégé for the United States, Brig. Sultan Amir, who is known as Col. Imam, has taught insurgent tactics.

  29. Nazia Avatar
    Nazia

    Mughal
    It is not only one colonel but we have full brigade in our largest army who have still strong links with few taliban groups.
    General alvi daylight murder was linked with this taliabn mafia in which he clearly threatened to name the two serving generals who are still playing the role of bridge between saudia and local Taliban.One of them is our Gen tariq majeed and other is not very clear might be Shujah past or gen massod alam whose only son was among the main target in Parade land attack.
    So one thing is clear after studying the case of few who work as double agents or opt to work for mafias other then given professional duties that they wouldn’t be spared if they ever try to deviate from their hidden agendas.
    This colonial Imam and gen hameed gul are enjoying all their liberty even declaring full support to talibans when our army is still on war like situation with them.
    That is the main reason why missing people mystery is not going to solve nor a fragile and sick lady dr Afia would be spared even on humane grounds in one of liberal society of the world.

  30. Nazia Avatar
    Nazia

    Mughal

    Presence of illegitimate child in any scoiety is not an hypothetical issue as you mentioned but bitter reality.

    You know Lady wellington hospital in Lahore.

    It was known as Haram dian da hapaital in local language there since the time of partition.

    it was created by social worker specially for the purpose so that locals which were Muslims in majority didn't not throw their newborn in garbage and hospital management had taken full responsibilities of these kids.

    My mother as a student of sociology made a research report on this hospital I think before 40 years.

    I dont wann go to its details but here babies born in muslim houses due to illegitimate mistakes of pious men. They were adopted by nuns and I am sure that those grownups are know serving as messengers of christanity in other parts of world and their parents are attending milads and relgious congregation in free Pakistan.

    Since that time each month they recieved 25 to 30 kids per day some of which couldn't survive due to improper handling at their secert birth places.

    Now this mission has been taken by edhi center and other social organization.I have no doubt about the true social work of Edhi in this way but not sure about others.

    So how you can say that this is an hypothetical issue.

    It is a reality and I know lot of decent and educated people who are reason of such product through their extra martial relations but they prove to be best Muslim and human in front of society.

    1. Aamir Mughal Avatar

      Dear Ms. Nazia,

      I am always with you on Social Reforms in Muslim Societies.

  31. Nazia Avatar
    Nazia

    You cant withstand with me on social reforms as in this process if you give heavy doses of antibiotic of strict religious laws,people would run away from such reforms.

    Human needs mild and joyful laws which can be easily managed in routine hectic life.

    You can see that when Allah swapped sheep in place of Hazrat Ismail, He completely showed his love for Muslim community.As eating meat of sheep was and is still a big festivity in Arabic culture.So Allah in return of sacrifice of His Prophet blessed the whole nation with festivity like blessings.

    1. Aamir Mughal Avatar

      No you are wrong. I insist that I would support you on Social Reforms in the Muslim World. For example several Tribal Areas in Pakistan or elsewhere demand Lady Doctor for their female family members yet they avoid rather detest sending their own female members to join Medical Colleges therefore there must be reforms to find a way out by keeping the balance between "as per you Strict Shariah Laws" and day to day necessity. I would humbly suggest a Women Medical University one in every province [must be opened for the Foreign Female Students of Muslim Countries] to tackle this issue and several such universities "For Women Only" should be set up as well.

    2. Aamir Mughal Avatar

      Dear Ms. Nazia,

      Heavy Dosage of Strict Islamic Laws were intentionally made a Laughing Stock in Pakistan by the very class who talk of Islam while completely forgetting that Punishments/Harsh Laws were only a little part of Islam not Islam itself and these Laws were made to put order in society and if you would go through the Life of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] after his [PBUH] prophet-hood [23 years] then you may find the these punishments were awarded on a very few and rare occasions. As far as my poor and humble knowledge is concerned Islam demands a society where such crimes are not occurred [that can only be achieved through gradual and peaceful preaching aiming the poor section of society with Economic Reforms as well] but our Religious Class [with the connivance Military Establishment of Zia and Musharraf as well who used Islam for serving the "Military's Strategic Depths – read USA Designs"] made this whole "Islamic Punishment Issues" a joke.