:::: MENU ::::

Karachi: Solidarity Rally for all Ahmedi victims in Lahore, 4:00pm Press Club

Peoples Resistance in Karachi condemns the violence against the Ahmedi community, yesterday in Lahore which leaves a blood trail of over 80 dead and dozens injured. In a land which was founded on the fact that there should be freedom to practice any religion, sadly since General Zia ul-Haq’s times there have been certain laws in acted into our constitution which curtails the free practice of the Ahmedi religion.

It is sad that their place of worship was brutally attacked leaving behind dozens dead and a large number of injured. We as a civil society group in Karachi condemns all forms of religious intolerance and feels the need to show support to the Ahmedi community at this critical juncture.

A solidarity rally is being organized in Karachi Press Club today to out-rightly condemn violence against any religious sect and to also show our support for the sad loss of innocent lives in Lahore yesterday

Location: Karachi Press Club
Date: 29th May 2010
Time: 4:00pm

Its important that a large community of citizens show up, it will in effect help the suppressed Ahmedi community in Karachi to join us and maybe we can help share their grief. We as activists who support religious tolerance can be a buffer amongst our midst they can confidently express their sorrow in a very public way.


227 Comments

  • Nazia |

    Aone

    For your kind information I had good Long meetings with mqm workers as they made robberies at my home in Karahci twice.I traced their footsteps to their homes but local police requested me not to register FIR against them as it would be dangerous for may whole family . Isharat ul abad governance is all time providing protection to sUCH workers who REGULARLY provide them funding like that for their urgency meetings in UK and residential expenses of idle altaf living in one of expensive city of World for last 18 years

    .His only profession we find is his lectureship through telephone to harassed people of karachi.

    One more thing you can add in my portfolio that altaf hussian first cousins are still my friends who never voted his party since he got leadership of this party.

    • Al |

      Nazia, Please elaborate.

      Was it during these robberies that you discussed in detail with the MQM workers the similarities & dissimilarities between the violence perpetrated by them & that perpetrated by the taliban? Because you said that mine is a typical response that MQM workers give so these meetings must have been really enlightening.

      How did you trace their footsteps to their home? You followed them as they fled your house? Or are you a sleuth-hound & did some detective work yourself.

      Where to go!! Now you know Altaf Hussain's first cousins too! Please also share with us who they are sleeping with.

    • Nazia |

      What is requirement of this elaboration becuase you would as per habit negate it.

      Why I need to tell lies In this trivial matter.

      You asked my to meet mqm workers and I told you my meeting point with them.

      The met me in my house and near street.Then I met them in Landhi and port qasim police station's lock up where they were identified by me .

      This meeting was organized under local police and with the help of local DSR.

      I got all their addresses and wanted to meet their family members but no one from LEA allowed me due to deadly consequences.I watched/heard investigation details.

      Any thing else in this regard??

      Why you are interested about bed partners of altaf's cousin.Thy didnt tell me about their experience but told me little details of like that of their runaway cousin.

      Believe me his one side of cousins who belong to working and educated class of Karachi never voted for his party.They are my real source of information about his detail political background.

    • Al |

      Nazia: Why would i negate your personal experience? You can write whatever you want.

      Why in the world would you want to meet the families of those thieves?

    • Nazia |

      You have taken oath of negating me all the time with cursing when require.

      For seeing all this you can revisit your all comments.

      No problem it is you problem not my complex,I can manage it as I experience most events that is why not interested what you say all the time.

      I heard the tragic background of these spoiled boys who took the shelter of mqm for taking shortcuts in their desperate lives.

      Two of them belong to very humble background.One's father throughout worked hard as telephone operator and for his son's job he even prostrated in front of influential people .His son after taking job as operator spied on people calls.Another boy was in Bank as qasid I think.

      He was in touch with operator when people withdrawn money from bank and then they planned for daylight robbery like that.His father was bedridden for many years.

      So I felt very sorry about their families who were under police records as their son caught So I wanted to console them as these boys were not caught if I would have taken extra effort of chasing them.

      Those boys were victims of brutality of system, shrewd attitude of political parties and wrong guidance of people who provided them idea of revenge like that to settled communiy.

      So you know why I am angry with mqm as it contributed same kind of culture/frustration in unemployed youth of Karachi turning their energies toward robberies, taking bahtta from business men or even ready to kill political rivals on the orders of dominating political characters.

      This is same attitude we find in baloci sardars and sindhis waderas who use their haris as pet hounds and after their use kill them as waste of soil.

      That is all happening in Karachi under the team which always claim to belong to middle educated class.

      God forbid if we need such kind of frustrated educated class which is just behaving like trained mafia for taking control of all in their hands.

    • Al |

      Yes i took a secret oath with Maulana Teeth Maestro that i will negate everything that you say on this forum. How did you get a wind of that?

      Where did i curse you? Stupid is not a curse word.

      I must admit very kind hearted of you to go & console the families of the thieves.

    • Nazia |

      Thanks to your taunting admittance at least.

      Hatam tai kee qabar par laat marri hay ap nay,

      Something is better than nothing from the pocket of a miser.

      By the way I couldnt reach to homes of robbers not thieves as you said because my guardians never allowed me for this.

    • Nazia |

      No A1

      you cant take secret oath of maualna TM as you are genuine mureed(devotees) of pirmurshad altaf hussain a runaway king kong of Karachi.

      One person cant hold of two oath in same city like Karachi at a time so I cant digest this joke from your high profile sense of humor.

    • Al |

      Nazia: Yeah you are right.

      Since you are at it why don't you add other names to the list of my idols & heroes: Hitler, David Ben Gurion, Masolini, Pinochet…..

    • Nazia |

      This is your life and your choices to pick your ideals or idols.I can only add some sugar or salt to it as per your demand.

    • Al |

      Yeah that is what i thought that it is my life. But since you are so bent on making me "genuine mureed(devotees) of pirmurshad altaf hussain a runaway king kong of Karachi" why stop there. You obviously get off at night imagining these things so please feel free to add names.

    • Nazia |

      It looks that you like green chillies in your goute.Sorry I never interpolated and interfered in your choices of life but it is you and only you who backed pir murshad altaf bhai jan in various discussions, nodoubt in diplomatic ways.

      Look A1 I have already told you that Zardari and Altaf Hussein are two bad-luck characters of Politics of Pakistan whom are highly disliked by majority living as commoner.

      So when somebody shows support to their ideologies, it means he/she is part of their political vision.

      That is what I perceived through your comments.

      I have no capacity and intention even in my imagination to bent your life's pick as ideals and favorites.Enjoy the company of your heroes and heroins in your utopia and if mood to add chillies then prick me for telling you some thing real and practical around them.

    • Al |

      Who said you ‘interpolated’ in my ‘choices of life’? I was just referring to your recurring fantasies of me as a devotee of Altaf Hussain. You do realize they are still fantasies. You imagining things don’t really make them real or impact my life in anyway. So I was suggesting that since you are fantasizing why stop at Altaf Hussain & Zardari. You can imagine about a whole lot of other colorful characters.

      Whatever your fantasies there is nothing to be ashamed of. I dream about Katrina Kaif. You dream about Altaf Hussain. We all have our fantasies.

      And what is ‘goute’? Only then can i tell you whether I like red or green chilies with it.

    • Nazia |

      Aone you say

      So I was suggesting that since you are fantasizing why stop at Altaf Hussain & Zardari. You can imagine about a whole lot of other colorful characters.

      Oh my god you think that there are some kind of fantasy is hidden behind their personalities.They are horrible realities of politics of Pakistan who are controlling important areas and masses in such a manner that no sane theory of political science can justify their role in any kind of civilized and organized politics.

      You have taken good revenge to me ,by allotting katrina to your world of fantasy and in my dream world you put character of Altaf.

      Sorry this wouldn't be fantasy but some kind of hallucination of sick mind with permanent damage to brain cell.

    • Al |

      I totally agree with you that "this wouldn’t be fantasy but some kind of hallucination of sick mind with permanent damage to brain cell".

      But that hasn't stopped you from fantasizing that i am a devotee of pir murshid Altaf Hussain, has it?

      Look, i can understand why you don't want to admit to your fantasies in the open. It doesn't matter. You cannot control your fantasies & your dreams. Now if you are fantasizing about Altaf Hussain what can i or anyone else do about it.

      I will pray for you though.

  • Aamir Mughal |

    Nazia says: – June 12, 2010 at 12:02 am By the way who funds them for all this?

    =========================

    Deobandis – Libya and they used to receive funds from Pakistani Establishment when Estab. wanted to counter Old Afghan Mujahideen [1979 – 1996] through Taliban [1996 – 2001/911]

    Barelvis – Saddam Hussain and Iraq's other Grave Worshippers/Shrine Keepers

    Ahl-e-Hadith-Wahabi-Salafi – Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Qatar.

    Shia – Iran.

    • Nazia |

      Mughals
      Your all link matches except deobandis or maulana FR with Libya.I have never seen such kind of culture in north African Muslims.For me Libyans are very liberal in many aspects then this narrow minded class living around us.
      I never saw such pieces of shits in north African culture which you provided through various links in this discussions.
      Why Libyan groups finance such cartoon like characters of Pakistan whom have no link to their local concept of religious norms.In one side Libya is popular for anti US sentiments and on other side financing regularly to such groups which actually help US lot to accomplish its goals in this region.Bhutto and Qaddafi were fast comrades of Muslim world and it was mufti muhmood who led movement against bhutto and somehow helped zia to hang him in his peak popular time.
      Sorry I couldnt find any correlation in this supply and source chain.

    • Aamir Mughal |

      Nazia says: – June 13, 2010 at 12:22 am Mughals Your all link matches except deobandis or maulana FR with Libya.I have never seen such kind of culture in north African Muslims.For me Libyans are very liberal in many aspects then this narrow minded class living around us.

      ========================

      I have verified the Facts. Tell me what was Libyan Diplomat to Pakistan doing in NWFP attending Deobandi Conference before 911.

    • Nazia |

      I am not denying this as I am hearing from different sources that fazlu is sponsored by Libyan group.

      Actually long time ago a magazine" view point" was printed from lahore.I am not sure but I think it was compiled under prof kh massod.In this magazine once an article was written on this abnormal love affairs of libya and our hero Of DIK which was further certified by old army officers too .But read my observation too.

      I cant find any synchronized relation as other local religious groups are conceptually linked with international donors.

  • Aamir Mughal |

    Read this “DEOBANDI KUFR [DISBELIEF] ” and you will certainly Laugh: “One person asked Khidr that,”Have you ever seen any wali who is better than you?” Khidr replied, “Yes, I have. I once visited the mosque of the Prophet. I saw Imaam Abdur Razzaq Muhaddith and he was teaching ahadith. The crowd and I listened to the ahadith from him. In one corner… See More of the masjid there was a youngster sitting who had kept his head between his knees away from the crowd. I said, Do you not see that ahadith of the Prophet are being taught? Why don’t you also attend the circle? He neither lifted his head nor did he look at me and said, “In that place are those who listen to ahadith from the slave of Razzaq and here are those who listen to ahadith from the Razzaq!” Hadhrat Khidr said that, “If you are indeed speaking the truth then tell who am I? He raised his head and said that, “If I am not mistaken, then you are Khidr.” Hadhrat Khidr then said, “From this I came to know that there are such wali of Allaah whom even I cannot recognize.””

    Allaahu Akbar! The pir (please notice that he has no name, no history and no background whatsoever. Just wild imaginations of Tableeghi Jamaa’at) in the above fable did not even raise his head and answered the questions of Khidr! And he listens to the Hadith from Allaah? The revelations comes down upon him? If Mirza Ghulam Qadiani makes such a … See Moreclaim all the scholars of Deobandh label him a kafir but what about the Kufr that is in their own books? Barelvis and Deobandi Tableeghi Jamaat – 3 http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/barelvis

    A critical note by Saudis on Deobandis [see how united the UMMAH is?] lol

    The advent of another Prophet is quite possible. (Mulla Abdul Hai Farangi Mahli and Mulla Qasim Nanotwi [one of the founder of Deoband, Tahzeer-in-Nas, p.34, Athar Ibn Abbas, p.16)

    Why blame Mirza when there were so many Mirza in Deoband.

    • Nazia |

      Mughal

      such kind of disbelief like stories are very popular among ladies groups.There are group of women like that as you explained above who projected the abnormal stories of Islam up to funniest level(I dot know to whom sec they belong).Interesting thing is there they speak hours and hours telling such stories to credit their faith on audience and none of hundred ladies dare to ask them that where they found such literature.I was many times oust from such dars culture as either I told her that they were telling wrong or couldnt control my spontaneous grim after hearing the distortion of religious beliefs under their supervsion.

      Another Psych tact they take with them to prove their credibility is a trained girl child who sometime speak in abnormal ways as some spirit is coming inside her after hearing such kind of Waaz from such high profile spiritual ladies.This way they impress large majority of women in our society and they are ready to invite lady pirs too in their homes for sharing their family secrets with them and get virtual help from Allah through such means of communication.

      I don't know how much these ladies are paid as no one disclosed it from either side.

    • Nazia |

      Mughal

      sorry I am failing to understand that in one side you are strictly following the rule of sealing of Prophet and all time supporter of blasphemy laws in any Muslim state( what I understood through your reading

      But for last week your all kind of sympathies have come with qadiaynis and their ideas and now you are proving through hard ways that other people have more sense of shirk than real qadyaani group.

      So what is intelligence secret behind such support even you have straight difference of opinion with their basic faith.

  • Aamir Mughal |

    Nazia says: – June 14, 2010 at 5:02 pm Mughal sorry I am failing to understand that in one side you are strictly following the rule of sealing of Prophet and all time supporter of blasphemy laws in any Muslim state( what I understood through your reading.

    MAM: Islam says so.

    NAZIA: But for last week your all kind of sympathies have come with qadiaynis and their ideas and.

    MAM: Are you trying to say that I am Mirzai [I am not Mirzai/Ahmedi/Quadiyani/Lahori/Pervezi]? I supported and sympathized with Ahmedis/Quadiyani because they have been wronged [the act in Lahore was against Islam]. I again say differentiate between Mirza and Mirzai.

  • Nazia |

    MAM: Islam says so.

    Yes for you people islam do say like that.

    First you spread hatred culture through your talent of religious intellectuality and when weak people come under the influence of your concept and start killing each other on the basis of weigthage of power, you come to deliver lecture of peace and harmony among sects.

    This is called power of brain washing. I found this natural talent abundant in ladies.This is same power that can turn a loving son to give up its responsibility of old parents considering them burden and hurdle for his happy family life.

    This feminine quality is also found in menfolk belonging to religious groups, paid journalists,fake faith healers who are expert in handling minds and faith of majority low caliber class under some themes.

    So all these groups can provide reasons of big change in the system or any environment by controlling and reading the minds of others.

    So I have no interest whether you are mirza, mirzai , sunni or wahabi,I am just cluing in you that such kinds of killings are linked with proper background of violent preaching and when this obtrusive attitude of violent people start producing monsters around us, they show sympathies to victim just like Munawar hussan or you are also showing us as champion of human rights.

    I am talking about level of fluctuation in your versions.

    Accepting the strict blasphemy laws means you are not in mood of giving space to people who are not agreeing with your faith.

    So every fire needs fuel and in such kind of religious conflict, human minds are the best source of fuel in combustible land like Pakistan.

    • Aamir Mughal |

      Nazia says: – June 14, 2010 at 10:20 pm MAM: Islam says so.

      Yes for you people islam do say like that. First you spread hatred culture through your talent of religious intellectuality and when weak people come under the influence of your concept and start killing each other on the basis of weigthage of power, you come to deliver lecture of peace and harmony among sects.

      MAM: Specify when did I spread hate. I am just revealing the facts

      Nazia: I am just cluing in you that such kinds of killings are linked with proper background of violent preaching

      MAM: Islam doesn't preach Killing like happening in Pakistan.

      Nazia: you are also showing us as champion of human rights.

      MAM: Where did I claim the championship of Human Rights

      Nazia: I am talking about level of fluctuation in your versions.

      MAM: I am not fluctuated at all. Whats wrong is wrong and I said it thousands of time that Terrorism, Suicide Attacks, Hijacking, and Time Bombing and Hostage Taking are all Haram in Islam [Ref: Quran and Hadith] similarly punishment for apostasy is death and for Blasphemy as well [I still stand by my statement] and these or any other punishment is to administered by the state not common mob and if common mob does that then they will be punished for that.

      Nazia: Accepting the strict blasphemy laws means you are not in mood of giving space to people who are not agreeing with your faith.

      MAM: Wrong statement. Strict Blasphemy Law is one thing and people [Non-Muslim Citizens] right to practice their religion is entirely different thing.

  • Nazia |

    Mughal

    Let the people whether Muslims or Muslims give benefit of ignorance or errors in their concepts and diverse mental approach.As you have technicality proved that doebandis or few Saudi clerics also do act like blasphemy.Shirk like acts are very popular in our shrines,sunni and shia congregations. so what argument left behind of awarding death penalty to nonMuslims if they do act of blasphemy.

    So if you stand on your statement then don't feel sorry for brutal killing of Ahmedis as your state showed no official sympathies to this sect even considering them as minority.

    Some clues have been found in which local police men involvement is being traced in this mass killings.These are same men who were posted to protect this area in the past.

    So it is state since the time of Bhutto who planted seed of abhorrence among communities in Pakistani soil just pleasing rich Saudis and grown fast in all over Pakistan under the funds provided by Libya ,saudia and iran.

    Read the experience of kmaran shafi that how state actions produced hatred in our secular type army culture under the theme of brain washing.

    Ahmadi massacre in Lahore: It’s now or never – by Kamran Shafi
    http://criticalppp.org/lubp/archives/12099
    You say

    Strict Blasphemy Law is one thing and people [Non-Muslim Citizens] right to practice their religion is entirely different thing.

    Have you read entrance warning of Saudis before entering in the premises of Mecca.

    it is like that.

    If any non Muslim would cross this limit he or she would be beheaded.

    So this kind of perception is strongly dominant to control the non Muslims for preaching their faith or controlling weak class under privileged ruling group in Muslim countries.

    So give me any state which can properly differentiate between blasphemy laws and giving right to non Muslims to practice their faith.

    As per data these popular laws are used to kill enemies through frustrated groups and state acts like deaf and dumb in such matter.

    • Aamir Mughal |

      Nazia says: – June 14, 2010 at 11:28 pm Mughal Let the people whether Muslims or Muslims give benefit of ignorance or errors in their concepts and diverse mental approach. As you have technicality proved that doebandis or few Saudi clerics also do act like blasphemy.

      MAM: That's whenever someone raise Allegation of Blasphemy and Apsotasy against someone the accucsed is asked thrice by a Genuine Religious Scholar or Qazi or Judge with sound evidence and witness and then if it is proven that he/she is guilty they are asked to repent and if they don't repent only then he/she is exceuted. Its not a joke. I mentioned Deobandi not Saudis.

      Nazia: Shirk like acts are very popular in our shrines,sunni and shia congregations.

      MAM: Polytheism is not punishable by death in Islam.

      NAZIA: so what argument left behind of awarding death penalty to non Muslims if they do act of blasphemy.

      MAM: Death sentence for Blasphemy is applicable to Muslims and Non-Muslims alike there is no discrimination.

      Nazia: So if you stand on your statement then don’t feel sorry for brutal killing of Ahmedis

      MAM: Killing any Non-Combatant [even if Worse Disbeliver] Non Muslims is Great Sin [Gunah-e-Kabira – Ref Bukhari],Non Combatant Non-Muslims cannot be even killed during a full fledge war. NOTE: Dear Madam when you don't even know the Islamic Laws then first go and read and then fire questions.

      NAZIA: You say Strict Blasphemy Law is one thing and people [Non-Muslim Citizens] right to practice their religion is entirely different thing. Have you read entrance warning of Saudis before entering in the premises of Mecca. it is like that. If any non Muslim would cross this limit he or she would be beheaded.

      MAM: That is Quranic decision and in force since Prophet Mohammad [PBUH]'s days that no Non Muslim would be allowed in Two Holy Cities. Provide the reference of Beheading [I think punishment was arrest] – There are thousands of Non-Muslims settled in KSA and living there since decades and Wahabis protect them under the laws of Zimmi.

  • Nazia |

    Mughal

    Life and manners are is far away from such principles from your theoretical pieces of pearls.

    Killing any Non-Combatant [even if Worse Disbeliver] Non Muslims is Great Sin [Gunah-e-Kabira – Ref Bukhari],Non Combatant Non-Muslims cannot be even killed during a full fledge war.

    kindly get the details of all wars fought between Muslims or non Muslims in our era.Iran Iraq, Iraq Kuwait, Iraq Kurd,Afghan Russians or between afghan groups,Hezbollah and Israel, war on terror etc

    Most of casualties are noncombatant civilians all the time.

    Dont go far away just review the human losses done in swat area or occurring in waziristan majority are unarmed locals.

    If you dont believe it kindly read the article of raheem yousuf zai,saleem safi and get the reports of moosa khan for which he was brutally killed in his own soil.

    Again you are followers of such norms/laws which are nonexistent in any Islamic system.After Prophet hardly any one followed this law that is why 3 out of 4 caliphs were murdered in their homes.

    Sultan ayubi followed this path of Prophet and its was mentioned in many non Muslim historians as mark of proud for all of us.Even this history get little place in Louvre museum too where you hardly find any glimpses of Muslim leadership in section of Islamic history.

    You said

    NOTE:

    Dear Madam when you don’t even know the Islamic Laws then first go and read and then fire questions.

    I dont trust on such principles of Islam originated or fabricated by saudi rulers.They have taken control of all Islam in their range by making fool the Muslim world on the name of guardian of Islam.

    They projected such Hadiths which help them to justify their monarch styles in Saudia.They have distributed control of holy places in their hands leaving behind a concept of classification of Muslim communities on family basis.if I am not wrong it was highly disregarded at the time of Prophet.This idea was also backed by divine's order as Allah had taken male heir from his custody so that His followers wouldn't follow family dynasty tradition which is still normal practice in Arab culture since that time.

    So you see they didn't bother to follow Prophet proved legacy but projected command of beheading of non Muslims on entrance gate of mecca and madina.

    I have read many events when holy prophet invited non muslims to his place and even they were invited in mosques for meeting with associates of Prophets.

    Islamic theory says

    whenever someone raise Allegation of Blasphemy and Apsotasy against someone the accucsed is asked thrice by a Genuine Religious Scholar or Qazi or Judge with sound evidence and witness and then if it is proven that he/she is guilty they are asked to repent and if they don’t repent only then he/she is exceuted

    We are in hands of mulllah found in JUI, JI and many are like that sufi mohammed, osama bin laden who have thrown thousands of their followers in death valley for killing ordinary civilians.

    Rest are like that

    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-

    Jamat-ul-Dawat to hold seminar against Agha Khan Board in Islamabad
    http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286

    So to whom you would give authority of executing nonmuslims on the basis of blasphemy??

    • Aamir Mughal |

      Nazia says: – June 15, 2010 at 1:14 pm Mughal – Life and manners are is far away from such principles from your theoretical pieces of pearls.

      MAM: How Islam is responsible for this?

      NAZIA: kindly get the details of all wars fought between Muslims or non Muslims in our era.Iran Iraq, Iraq Kuwait, Iraq Kurd,Afghan Russians or between afghan groups,Hezbollah and Israel, war on terror etc Most of casualties are noncombatant civilians all the time.

      MAM: What it has to do with Islam? I am talking about Laws of War given in Quran and Hadith and you are asking 20 questions about Details of All War???? If Kuwait, Iraq, Iran, Hezbollah are not following Islam then how come Islam is responsible.

      Nazia: Dont go far away just review the human losses done in swat area or occurring in waziristan majority are unarmed locals. If you dont believe it kindly read the article of raheem yousuf zai,saleem safi and get the reports of moosa khan for which he was brutally killed in his own soil.

      MAM: Again! What Islam has to do with this?

      Nazia: Again you are followers of such norms/laws which are nonexistent in any Islamic system. After Prophet hardly any one followed this law that is why 3 out of 4 caliphs were murdered in their homes.

      MAM: This text above you are quoting is the Ideology of Paleed Mawdudi who concocted this Fiction in Khilafat O Malookiyat through False Narration compiled by Tabari through Kazzab narrators like Abu Mikhnaf, Waqidi, Kalbi, Hisham, Suddi [Salman Rushdie had also quoted the narrations compiled by these Lawyers] and countless others. Your text above is an open slander upon Companions [May Allah be pleased with all of them] what do you mean that righte after Prophet Mohammad [PBUH]'s death everyone had gone astray ? Are you out of your mind? Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] had said the three Generations after me are best of generation [Khairul Qarni Qurooni Thumal Lazeena Yaloonahum, Thummal Lazeena Yaloonahum – Ref Muslim, Bukhari and others] no doubt three Caliphs were Martyred and if you take these Martyrdom as evidence of Deviancy [Perish the Thought] then what about Prophet Mohammd [PBUH]'s very era when even in his presence many Muslims committed crimes and Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] punished them. Dear Ms. Nazia, please do some reading before writing anything on Blessed Generation of Companions and before quoting History do read as to how this Alleged Islamic History was compiled.

      Nazia: You said NOTE: Dear Madam when you don’t even know the Islamic Laws then first go and read and then fire questions. I dont trust on such principles of Islam originated or fabricated by saudi rulers.

      MAM: Where did I quote Saudi Text?

      Nazia: They have taken control of all Islam in their range by making fool the Muslim world on the name of guardian of Islam.

      MAM: I am very clear on Aal-e-Sauds: Corrupt, Vile & Filthy: Arabs, Aal-e-Saud, & Wahhaabis. http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/06/corrupt-

      Nazia: They projected such Hadiths which help them to justify their monarch styles in Saudia.

      MAM: Kingdom or Kings are not Haram in Islam, read Quran. Quote the Hadith and then we talk. Criteria of Islam is Justice and Fair deal not the system of governance/governing.

      Nazia: They have distributed control of holy places in their hands leaving behind a concept of classification of Muslim communities on family basis.if I am not wrong it was highly disregarded at the time of Prophet.

      MAM: You are wrong and if say you are correct then quote the reference and don't quote Khilafat O Malookiya by Mawdudi.

      Nazia: I have read many events when holy prophet invited non muslims to his place and even they were invited in mosques for meeting with associates of Prophets.

      MAM: Quote the reference.

      NAZIA: Islamic theory says whenever someone raise Allegation of Blasphemy and Apsotasy against someone the accucsed is asked thrice by a Genuine Religious Scholar or Qazi or Judge with sound evidence and witness and then if it is proven that he/she is guilty they are asked to repent and if they don’t repent only then he/she is exceuted We are in hands of mulllah found in JUI, JI and many are like that sufi mohammed, osama bin laden who have thrown thousands of their followers in death valley for killing ordinary civilians.

      MAM: I have always said that "Misuse of Law is to be checked"

      Nazia: So to whom you would give authority of executing nonmuslims on the basis of blasphemy??

      MAM: Only State through Judiciary after thorough Enquiry and verification.

    • Aamir Mughal |

      For you information Ms. Nazia. You are without proper knowledge raising hell regarding the Martyrdom of Companions whereas Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] through Allah had predicted the Martyrdom of three Calpihs [Read Bukhari]

    • Aamir Mughal |

      before quoting History do read as to how this Alleged Islamic History was compiled. [MAM]

      ==============

      Part – 1

      Only in Tabari there are more than 18 narrations which are direct attack on the Holy Character of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] and these are so derogatory that I cannot even quote.

      Let me tell you how these "Alleged Islamic Historians" have compiled Lies and Insults upon the Greatest Personalities of Islam:

      Quran cannot be tempered and Hadith can be verified through matching it with Quran and then Chains of Narrations. Regarding Biography of Mohammad [PBUH], how can one be so sure that LIFE SKETCH of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] is not tempered because it's not Quran. Historian collect everything and one should be very careful when Historian discuss Prophets [PBUT], their Companions [May Allah be pleased with them]

      Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari: “I am writing this book as I hear from the narrators. If anything sounds absurd, I should not be blamed or held accountable. The responsibility of all errors or blunders rests squarely on the shoulders of those who have narrated these stories to me.” Tabari's Tareekhil Umam Wal Mulook (The History of Nations and Kings) popularly called "Mother of All Histories" is the first ever "History of Islam" written by 'Imam' Tabari (839-923 CE) at the junction of the third and fourth century AH. He died in 310 AH. [Preface of Tareekhil Umam Wal Mulook (The History of Nations and Kings) by Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari.]

    • Aamir Mughal |

      Part – 2 Compilation of Alleged Islamic History [Read Tabbarrah]:

      Ahmed Bin Hanbal says:Three kinds of books are absolutely unfounded, Maghazi, Malahem and Tafseer.” (The exalted Prophet's Battles, Dreams and Prophecies, and Expositions of the Qur’an). [Ahmed Bin Hanbal as quoted by ibn Rajab al-Hanbali in Dhayl Tabaqat al-Hanabila (Appendage to the Encyclopedia of Hanbali Scholars)]

      Hafiz Ibn Kathir says: Had Ibn Jareer Tabari not recorded the strange reports, I would never have done so. [Tafseer Ibn Katheer (Commentary on Quran) and Al Bidaya Wal Nihaya (History – From Start to End)]

    • Aamir Mughal |

      So to whom you would give authority of executing nonmuslims on the basis of blasphemy?? [Nazia]

      =====================

      Punishment and Penal Code is part of every society and religion and Islam too has the same to keep the check and balance. Punishment is a part of Islam not the otherwise. For you information Ms. Nazia. Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] had also said "avoid too much issuance of Hudd Punishment" [Sunan Ibn Majah] means give benefit of doubt to people.

    • Nazia |

      Mughal

      Kindly make a crystal glass and sit there with all your knowledge of history.

      I am not follower of particular sect but go to places of all and sit company of all kind of religious people..I have read such books and ref during my student time and in practical life I preferred to search God and religion in people's way of living.I am sorry to say that I found traces of God every where but people have created religion as per their convenience.

      All kind of literature in support or against of any incident and person are available so you need your natural inclination to take guidelines as per your interest or as per demand of your brought up.

      I have a translation of Quran done by any jew.

      There he provided classical examples of Prophet s'friendship with Jewish community.In this translation he mentioned under some ref that some jews made visit of Prophet on His invitation and meeting was took place in Mosque.During that meeting time of prayer had come.Prophet and his companions left the mosque and said his prayer outside that mosque so that his Jewish guest would do the same as per their way of praying.

      It was also mentioned in this translation that there was strong lobby of business men around Prophet who were against friendship ties with Jewish community considering them business rivals.These groups added traditional rivalry to literature which was further used as guidelines of new generation of Muslims of that era.

      Look I am not all in all believing what is written there but just giving you example that we have variety of knowledge and people who are busy in their professional lives and daily responsibilities have no time to fell in such kind of multiple concepts for proving superiority or authenticity of particular faith.

      For busy people it is enough if they fulfill their fundamental principles and duly responsibilities for his /her kins and state to whom he/she belongs and honest way of earning .

      These are looking simple but not easy goals of life to accomplish.So more you dig the history of muslims to negate any particular sect, you would face more retaliation from other

      Muslims throughout the history were expert in destroying the actual historical facts.

      It would be better for people like you to minimize the gap between theoretical Islam and what is actually going on around us on the name of Islam.At least find the exact reasons of its wrong interpretation to majority.

    • Nazia |

      Mughal

      you said

      punishment and Penal Code is part of every society and religion and Islam too has the same to keep the check and balance. Punishment is a part of Islam not the otherwise. For you information Ms. Nazia. Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] had also said “avoid too much issuance of Hudd Punishment” [Sunan Ibn Majah] means give benefit of doubt to people.

      Yes surely our Muslim society through out gives this benefit of doubt to influential and rich people and Hud or hudood like ordinance for poor and weak genders.

      I am no talking about punishment and penal code for social crimes but talking against the hard punishments we put to secure our faiths.

      Faith is preserved and promoted through the acts of followers and by penalizing its rivals if one can think that this way he/she can promote or save faith then this is show of his/her weakness and loss of confidence on virtual powers which is nucleus of each faith.

    • Aamir Mughal |

      Nazia says: – June 15, 2010 at 11:42 pm Mughal Kindly make a crystal glass and sit there with all your knowledge of history.

      MAM: First you ask question and then you demand answer as per your wish and this doesn't happen.

      NAZIA: I am not follower of particular sect but go to places of all and sit company of all kind of religious people.

      MAM: I also don't follow any school of thought and have friendship with people from every sect however I avoid Innovative Gatherings [Bida'ati Taqreeben] but that doesn't mean that i should harm them in any way.

      Nazia: I have a translation of Quran done by any jew. There he provided classical examples of Prophet s’friendship with Jewish community.

      MAM: Name and Reference please.

      NAZIA: Muslims throughout the history were expert in destroying the actual historical facts.

      MAM: First of all provide the reference and second you are absolutely wrong rather absurd. Muslims were the one who invented the science of Asma-ur-Rijal (the unique art of research on people) to judge the authenticity of any text through checking the reliability of narrators. Mongols and Crusaders were not Muslim and it was Hulegu Khan who burnt the books and library in Baghdad.

    • Al |

      Aamir Mughal: I agree with you.

      I think what some people want to do is to make Islam's history sound so muddied & controversial, that we instead of relying on it & looking at the Prophet (PBUH) & His Companions (RA) for guidance start "to search God and religion in people’s way of living". In other words we follow what we think is right instead of seeking guidance from the Prophet (PBUH) & his Blessed Companions (ra).

      Nazia is quoting Irani/Shia sources on Hazrat Umar(ra), Hazrat Uthman(ra), & Hazrat Abu Bakr(ra). Obviously they are going to be hostile & derogatory.

      Regardless of what books say, if you are raising fingers at 3 of the 4 foremost companions of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) & saying that they were usurpers, that is nothing but a massive vote of no-confidence in the Holy Prophet (PBUH) himself (nauzubillah). It implies that the Prophet (pbuh) was such a bad judge of character that 3 of his 4 closest companions were dishonest & usurpers. And to all of whom the Prophet (PBUH) had given basharat for Jannat during his lifetime.

      Nazia, for you information watch this BBC documentary for the contribution of Islamic scholars to the world of Science. If not for these scholars & researchers a lot of the Greek & Roman texts would have been lost forever. We shouldn't live in a fool's paradise & keep gloating in our past history & do nothing about our present state but that also does not mean that we forget our history.



    • Aamir Mughal |

      Al says: – June 16, 2010 at 10:48 am Aamir Mughal: I agree with you.

      ================

      Thanks for the Support Sir, and presenting my point of view more clearly. To second you: If we rely Historical Sources depicting the Best of Generation [Khairul Qarani] in a worst possible way then it is directly a Tabbarah [Khakam Badahan] upon Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] meaning that his [PBUH] training didn't do anything [Persih the thought] and if that logic is to be taken then Islam survived for only 23 years.

      Wah! Ms. Nazia. Even Hard Core Orientalist didn't think like that.

    • Nazia |

      I have many times quoted that Aone is your lost brother so here it prove it again.

      Now I can tag you hardcore orientalist too?

  • Aamir Mughal |

    Part – 3 Compilation of Alleged Islamic History [Read Tabbarrah]:

    Ibn Khaldun says: The Muslim historians have made a mockery of history by filling it with fabrications and senseless lies. (Muqaddama Ibn Khaldun)

    Shah Abdul Aziz Dehelvi says: Six pages of Ibn Khaldoon's History have been deliberately removed since the earliest times. These pages had questioned the most critical juncture of Islamic history i.e. the Emirate of Yazeed and the fiction of Karbala. [Even the modern editions admit in the side-notes that those pages have been mysteriously missing from the ancient original book. [Tohfa Ithna Ashri by Shah Abdul Aziz Dehelvi and Izalatul Khafa'an Khilafatul Khulafa by Shah Waliullah Dehelvi]

    • Nazia |

      No doubt you are good researcher of islamic history and might write good books and literature against abnormal literature we found in our confused set up.

      But it requires lot of time and effort to clear the mess that was started since the time of Zia or might be before him.

      The friendship of miltiary dictators and Arab kings has created many functional but violent religious groups in all Muslim world.This is very interesting in all kind of wars and riots nobody hurt Kings and generals( In near past only iranian did to their elites)but killing commoners and street people to justify the strength of particular faith.

      Here i found few described events inhistory pages of Islam.

      There are lot of versions available under same topic.

      So I again repeat that busy people have less time to go in depth of multiple concept of religious affairs as it wouldn't help any body to solve the updated chaos like sitaution.

      Death of Uthman

      Regarding Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr’s(son of Hazrat abu bakar) role in the death of Uthman, there are several different reports, although most sources contain some common basic details. Concerning the actual deathblow, Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr is considered innocent, whereas many sources indicate that he had a role in leading the Egyptian dissidents to Uthman. The degree to which Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr confronts Uthman also varies. In some reports, Ibn Abi Bakr is reported to have drawn blood from Uthman, while other reports indicate that he withdrew from Uthman after entering Uthman’s presence and grabbing his beard. Concerning Tabari's account of a tamer encounter with Uthman, scholars, such as Marshall Hodgson question the representativeness of this portrayal of Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr as a more peaceful detractor compared to the Egyptian dissidents.

      Ref Ṭabarī, and Adrian Brockett. The Community Divided. New York: State University of New York, 1997. pg 191,205

      # ^ Hodgson, Marshall G. S. The Classical Age of Islam. Chicago: University of Chicago, 1974. pg. 355

      Following his election to the caliphate, Abu Bakr and Umar with a few other companions headed to Fatimah's house to obtain homage from Ali and his supporters who had gathered there. Then, it is alleged that Umar threatened to set the house on fire unless they came out and swore allegiance with Abu Bakr. Then Umar set the house on fire and pushed the burnt door on Fatima, which ended up killing her unborn child. Then they took Ali by force and Fatima would not let go. Then, Abu Bakr hit her with a chain until she fainted and took Ali. When she woke up, she went to where Ali was taken and said if Ali gives his alliance she will curse everyone. But Ali told his friend to go and calm her down.When Abu Bakr's selection to the caliphate was presented as a fait accompli, Ali withheld his oaths of allegiance until after the death of Fatimah. Ali did not actively assert his own right because he did not want to throw the nascent Muslim community into strife

      from Encyclopædia Iranica. http://www.iranica.com/articles/ali-b-abi-taleb. Retrieved 2010-05-15.

      Umar's murder

      One controversial story [which summarizes and is largely in agreement with the account (ultimately deriving from Ibn Shihab) included by Ibn Sa'd in his Tabaqat] goes thus: Abu Lu'lu'ah felt that he had to give too much of his wages to his owner. He approached Umar, the caliph, and begged for relief, saying (according to Abu Huwayrith's account in Ibn Sa'd's Tabaqat) "The taxes [Mughira] are levying on me are more than I can bear." Mughira (his owner), as a Muslim, was subject to Umar; surely Umar could enforce justice.

      However, Umar, after questioning him about how much his income was in proportion to the tax that Mughira was demanding from him (according to Ábu Huwayrith), told Abu Lu'lu'ah that he was such a skilled workman that he was sure to make a good wages; there was no need to reduce his obligation to his owner. The slave was enraged at the reply and swore vengeance. [Ibn Sa'd adds: So in his robe he wrapped his two-headed dagger, the grip of which was in the middle, and hid himself in a corner of the Medina mosque.]

      When Umar went to wake up those sleeping in the mosque for morning prayers, Abu Lu'lu'ah leaped upon him and stabbed Umar six times [three times, according to Ibn Sa'd]. He attempted to make his way out of the mosque, slashing at the bystanders [11 men besides 'Umar, according to Ibn Sa'd] as he fled.

      Pirouz Nahavandi abu lulu is regarded by many Iranians as a National Hero and his tomb is in Kashan, Iran

    • Aamir Mughal |

      Nazia says: – June 16, 2010 at 12:11 am This is very interesting in all kind of wars and riots nobody hurt Kings and generals( In near past only iranian did to their elites)but killing commoners and street people to justify the strength of particular faith.

      MAM: Wrong. Provide the reference.

      Nazia: Death of Uthman [May Allah be pleased with him]

      MAM: Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr’s(son of Hazrat abu bakar) didn't murder Hazrat Uthman [RA] indeed he entered in his house and argued but when Hazrat Uthman [RA] reprimanded he just left [Ibn Khaldun], that's why I don't accept History when it discuss the Best Era because if we accept that Muhammad Bin Abu Bakar was involved in the murder then ultimately it will involve Hazrat Ali [RA] because Hazrat Ali married the widowed wife of Abu Bakr [RA] and Muhammad was 2 1/2 years old and Hazrat Ali [RA] brought him up. Above all Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] predicted that Ali [RA] is amongst those 10 Blessed Companions [Ashra Mubashsharra] who would be in Paradise [that was predicted in Ali's life] and how can Mohammad be involved in that murder because Ali [RA] had appointed Muhammad Bin Abu Bakr Governor of Egypt. Accessory to murder and that too of Hazrat Uthman [RA, he is also in those 10 Companions mentioned above and he was also Brother in law of Ali] cannot be given glad tiding of Paradise by Prophet Mohammad [PBUH]. See how faulty the history is.

      NAZIA: Following his election to the caliphate, Abu Bakr and Umar with a few other companions headed to Fatimah’s house to obtain homage from Ali and his supporters who had gathered there.

      MAM: You are narrating the False Narration of Saqeefa Bani Sa'ada and it is a Flagrant Lie. [Ibn Khaldun/Al Bidaya Wal Nihaya by Ibn Kathir]. By the way Hazrat Omar [RA] was Hazrat Ali's son in law. [Ibn Khaldun]

      Umar’s murder:

      Be careful, Tabaqat Ibn Saad major narrator is Waqidi [Classified as Kazzab in Asma ur Rijal books] – Rafizi can make anybody a Hero.

  • Aamir Mughal |

    Part – 3 Compilation of Alleged Islamic History [Read Tabbarrah]:

    Shah Waliullah Dehelvi says: Imam Jalaluddin Sayyuti's Tarikh-ul-Khulafa is the prime example of how our Historians, Muhaddithin and Mufassirin, each has played like Haatib-il-Lail (One who collects firewood at night not knowing which piece is good and which one is bad). [Izalatul Khifa A'N Khilaafatil Khulafaa by Shah Waliullah]

    An example.

    Narration for Khateeb Baghdadi's Tareekh Baghdad/Imam Jalaluddin Sayyuti's Tarikh-ul-Khulafa. The day Incident of Karbala happened everything become blood and blood was flowing from everything even from under every stone, milk, meat, vegetables, well, sun, sky, canals, rivers etc.etc.

  • Nazia |

    uthor: Aamir Mughal

    Comment:

    Part – 2 Compilation of Alleged Islamic History [Read Tabbarrah]:

    Ahmed Bin Hanbal says:Three kinds of books are absolutely unfounded, Maghazi, Malahem and Tafseer.” (The exalted Prophet's Battles, Dreams and Prophecies, and Expositions of the Qur’an)

    Some detail of hanbal group and its relation with Tabaari is found like that

    http://www.bookrags.com/biography/muhammad-ibn-ja

    Fully devoted to writing and teaching, al-Tabari refused an appointment as judge in 912. His lectures attracted large flocks of students. However, after his second trip to Tabaristan, he aroused the hostility of the Hanbalite school, which was predominant in Baghdad, by refusing to recognize its founder, Ibn Hanbal, as a scholar of the law. The Hanbalites accused him of heresy in minor doctrinal points, attacked him and his house, and, even after he apologized to them, continued to prevent students from attending his lectures. Al-Tabari died on Feb. 15, 923. His school of legal doctrine survived for only a few generations.

    • Aamir Mughal |

      Have you even Tabari because I have read and I am not Hanbali and many narrations which Tabari had compiled were not only heretic but blasphemous to the core.

  • Nazia |

    Look mughal

    I am not follower of any references which I provided you but read it or hear it when it comes in front of me without thinking that it can drastically change my opinion that I am born Muslim.

    I am just giving you reference of many that all kinds of literature whether strong and weak is available in market.In our country where faiths are multiplied each year due to weak governance , people are religiously confused or irritated through different interpretations coming from different sources.

    Where fair state would take control of such parameters, things get shape of some organized way of following faiths at particular time.Good management and policies of state always channelized the human energy towards constructive sides and weak govt allows variety of religious concepts to flourish in majority so people adopt the policy of divide and rule and this way all weakness and corruption details are hidden under religious blanket.

    I have given you little details of our social setup where religious norms are practically being used as weapon of controlling masses as per demand of ruling group.

    So when ever change is planned, here comes the new faith and faith healers and all state machinery would come to protect this new kind of ideas.

    So divide and rule on the basis of religious concepts is still ruling tool in our system,.

    I never read tabari in my student life but read few of his references in between some articles.Nothing more than nor it is my requirement as I am not in position or in mood to Challenger any body faith's in my life.This is not my priority at all after coming to practical world of reality.