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Pakistan Ka Mutlub Kia? Islam Ki Ruswai, Aur Kia

Guest post by temporal of Baithak Blog

Al- Quran 5:32 “…if any one slew a person – unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.”

Forget we are Pakistanis for a moment? Remember we are Muslims – first and last – nice, wonderful, kind, gun toting neighbour hating Muslim.

Of course this has nothing to do with Islam or Pakistan. Any one who casts even a wild aspersion over this is a bigot.

True, 98 or 99% of Pakistanis follow Islam.

True, at cartoons and books published in distant lands forces us to come out in the streets and burn and loot our public property.

True, we believe in one Allah.

True, we kill other Muslims in the name of (our) Allah without regret.

True, true, true!

Now, let us forget about Tasleem Solangi.

Let us forget about the sisters in Baluchistan.

Let us forget about Dr Shazia and Mukhtaran Mai.

Let us forget about Allah and His Book.

Let us forget about Muhammed (saw) and Bukhari and Tirmizi et al.

Let us forget about rule of law, forget about courts, and parliaments and democracy.

We have wise men in jirgas. They know best. They are fair and just. They are more powerful than dead pious men.

They know Islam best. Let us roll over and play dead.

As it is we have been told we do not have anything in the till to pay up our fiscal debts, while the billionaire non-identical twins Zardari-Sharif rush off abroad to manage their vast holding at the slightest excuse.

Let us forget these deaths.

Let us talk about IMF, Plan Z, Load Shedding, Chenab waters, Ata, Daal and Roti and Islam.

Pakistan ka mutlub kia?
Islam ki ruswai, aur kia

ISLAMABAD: There is more to the bone-chilling account of the 17-year-old Taslim Solangi of Khairpur who was thrown to dogs — she was 8-month pregnant and was forced to give birth to her baby prematurely.

The baby was immediately thrown into the nearby Ubhal Wah canal after her killer father-in-law passed a judgement that the child was illegitimate and did not deserve to be allowed to live. By Rauf Klasra


85 Comments

  • readinglord |

    @Kashmiri

    You say:

    “M A J DECLARED OPENLY IN PUBLIC WHEN ASKED WHICH
    SECT Did he BELONGed, HIS ANSWER WAS HISTORIC, HE REPLIED
    I DO NOT BELONG TO ANY SECT , I AM A SIMPLE MUSLIM”

    I ask you: How could MAJ call himself a ‘Muslim’ without sumitting an affidavit about ‘Khatme Nabuwwat’ with insulting remarks against Ahmadies and the founder of their faith, all of whom claimed to be Muslims?

  • Rafay Kashmiri |

    @ readinglord,

    because all other fiqhs (5 schools of fiqh) Shia, hambali,maliki, shafai and Hanafi from Ahlesunnat and
    shia fiqh do not require any affidavit about Khatm-e-Nabuwat
    as they all ^believe in the finality of Muhammad SAW.
    Even the suffis don’t have to, the largest one be Hanafi
    having more than 1 billions of muslim adhering to it around
    20 different muslim countries.

  • Rafay Kashmiri |

    @ Barrister Sahib,

    its beyond imagination, not even for one second, that
    Hussain Shahid Suhrawardy a Giant Muslim leader of
    the absolute majority of East Bengal muslims can even
    think of venturing along with a Hindu a different Bengal
    than was initiated during and after round table
    conference before Nehru, Patel, Mountbaton, and Jinnah
    and Rab Nistar, Liaquat Ali and other hindus.?
    who all accepted and signed with the avale of Brit
    Govt. the agreement
    was unanimously upheld by all and the regions in questions where majority were muslims started to move in, to
    take the inspections and charge,
    then Nehru Bastard invaded Kashmir, Hyderabad, Junaghar
    and guess who was the Diwan of Junaghar ? Sir shahnawaz
    BHUTTO, who called on the Indian army against the will of
    all memons and gujrati Muslims, The traitor Papa Bhutto, its
    in the bloody blood.

    What shall I do with Encyclopedia Britanica, throw it in
    the Thames for ever. Bloody Brit liars, cheat, forgers in
    their chromozomes.

    cheers

  • readinglord |

    @Kashmiri

    You mentioned Hanafi Musalman, but ignored the sect which exists in Pakistan only; that of ‘Halfi Muslims’. And what about Sipah-e- Suhabah, they on the basis of a fatwa by jayyad Ulamaa-eDeoband, say that even those who consider Shias as Muslim are kafirs. But you are now saying that those who claim to be Muslims, including Jinnah, are Muslims except Ahmadies. All this goes to prove how prophetic was Moulana Abulkalam Azad who had said (qoute in Urdu),”Bharat mein Musalmanon ka berha gharq hoga aur Paskistan mein Islam ka”.

  • Barrister Ali K.Chishti |

    Kashmiri Sahib – you are in a denial mode and can not come up with a logical answer validating your counter arguments – no references at all.

    Here’s another Mullah-Myth Buster,

    Bhai Sahib, the Suhrawarday was a man of vision and a true patriot, obviously – there’s a clear divide between your definition and my definition of a patriot but there’s no doubt that Suhrawarday was a great visionary. Kashmir Sahib, I would recommend you to read his autobiography and the account later narriated by Begum Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy and you will understand the making of Bangladesh and rise of Sheikh Mujeeb ur Rehman who was his aide.

    I am posting you couple of things with references (credible, ofcourse).

    May 20, 1947, those who favored the United Independent Bengal scheme met at the house of Sarat Chandra Bose and reached at a tentative agreement. It was signed by Abul Hashim and Sarat Chandra Bose.

    (http://www.asiaticsociety.org.bd/journals/vol%2052/ABUL%20HASHIM%20AS%20A%20POLITICAL%20THINKER.html_

    On the eve of the 1947 partition Suhrawardy envisioned the establishment of a state in Eastern India comprising the whole of Bengal and Assam and the adjoining districts of Bihar. This came to be known as his scheme for Greater Independent Bengal. As it is widely known, on the eve of the 1947 partition Suhrawardy, at that time the Prime Minister of the province, in collaboration with some Bangali Hindu leaders, namely, Sarat Chandra Bose, Kiran Shankar Roy and Satya Ranjan Bakshi initiated a move for a United Independent Bengal as a third dominion alongside India and Pakistan. ABUL HASHIM, the then secretary of the Bengal Provincial Muslim League, also extended his full support to the project. However, it was unsuccessful.
    (http://banglapedia.search.com.bd/HT/S_0588.htm)

    duago,
    AKC.

  • Rafay Kashmiri |

    @ Readinglord,

    Hanafi is nothing but school of jurisprudence (Fiqh)
    following the opinion of Imam-e-Azam, Abu Hanifah.
    “halfi musulman ” must be those who need to take oath
    in order to convert to Islam from Qadianiat, or other
    sects.
    Normally, what you call ” Jayyad Ulema of Deoband i.e.
    a small region of Deoband Darul-uluome with very much
    Influence of Indian Muslim Saints and ulemaHanafis,
    we have further Deobandis nd Barelvis, who
    have added and codefied more details, some of them have
    initiated and encouraged militants to combat other sects
    also having combative groups like Shia sipah-e-Muhammad
    initiated by Iranian Shias,
    now Shias can not be declared as non muslims, not just
    by one or two ignorant maulavis, you need to have ijma’a
    consensus) of all, e.g. muslim’s total ijma’a on Qadianis
    daclared as non-muslim, the ijma’a is 99.1 % so much so
    that Pakistan as an Islamic Republic passed a legislation
    to declare Qadianis non-muslims legally (1973).

    Shias also have their school of jurisprudence called
    Fiqh Jafferia, developed & adopted by Iran not long ago,
    openly calling themselves jafferias as they
    also believe in One Allah, Quran, and Rasool as last
    Prophet so they are considered as muslims, but are
    called sect in Islam. I will stop right here because
    I dislike this subject as it is quite boring & dry.

    I respect Azad, never knew him, but how wrong and
    mistaken his vision was, at the time of Partition

    Hindus and Sikh killed 4 millions of Muslims around
    India in only two months ” August and septmber 1947

    Then Since my childhood I saw in the newspaper, Jang
    Dawn, Nawa-e-waqt etc Muslim killings Genocide in
    1956, 1959 1960 63 64 66 68 69 70 20001 2002 2003
    only few names of the cities I remember, I wish some
    one give details and figures
    Jamshedpur, Gorakhpur, Jabalpur, Ranchi nagpur, Ayudhia
    Luckhnow, Dehli, Punjab, Gujarat Ahmedabad,

    Sorry, your AZAD was absolutely mistaken !!if it was
    a Prophecy, if only it was !!

  • Rafay Kashmiri |

    @ Barrister,

    Do I need to validate Pakistan’s History, thru
    your ” memoire-infested “auspices ” particularly with
    reference of Mrs. Suharawardi’s ” recollections ” ?

    Viewing today’s figures
    there are 170 millions of Pakistanis muslims
    200 millions of Ex-East Pakistanis muslims
    50 million of West Bangalis muslims
    250 million of Indian muslims (Indian fugures falsified)
    who would want bangladesh to join West Bengale ??

    I do agree with you that we have a very clear devide
    between my definition of patriotism, and your’s,
    I doubt that Suhrawardi had any other vision than an
    unaltered, Quaid’s-inspired & initiated, unquestionable
    patriotism, If he would have dared at that time of
    ” keeping how ever a vision, according to you, apart
    from what total muslim Bengali population of India,
    had visioned, and yet the Bangali muslim mases
    became the majority ” makers ” of Pakistan. ? ! ! !
    I woukd have never believed him !!
    That so called “vision of combined Bengal”, if it was,
    would ‘nt have ended up in a fiasco by creating
    Bangladesh, by the ” bangla Buddhu “, the rat who
    ruined the total East Bangali muslims from day one to
    today, he is called traitor of bangalis,
    if, by any chance you are thinking that Shaikh Mujib,
    represents 3 grms of Suharawardy’s vision, then, your
    whole theory of, so called, combined Bengale stands
    fictitious, and that of your colleagues amateurs.
    It was, however a shock for Mujib, the traitor, when
    India rejected catagorically to annex a “total natural
    disaster infested Liability ”
    The vision of bringing ” back ” East Bangale to West
    Bengale, eventually back to India, would have been
    providing some indications that Suharawardy would have
    visioned something indentical to the creation of a
    joint entity like Greater Bengal.

    Today’s vision could be to bring back East Pakistan
    and expand our defensive strategy and hegemony in the
    region, giving large autonomy to Eastern part.

  • Rafay Kashmiri |

    @ Barrister,

    Cabinet Missn. proposals were to accept the reality of
    two nation theory, what was demanded my M L.& QUAID
    You know how it worked e.g
    Union of India would have comprised of Punjab,NWFP,
    Sindh, Baluchistan etc and
    British India + Indian states Bengal Assam etc.
    And it worked till the Bania mentality opened up.
    Muslims and Hindus participated on different nation’s
    basis, NO ?
    M L had five Ministries, Liaquat Ali being
    Finance Minister, with the famous Budget complications.
    So is it not clear for you ! that Indian Muslims were a
    seperate entity ?

    Of course the whole thing WAS sabotaged by Nahru-Patel
    gang,
    against Ghandi’s opinion and sentiments,
    but M L’s and MAJ’s determination did not deteriorated,
    and you know well that The vicious anti-muslim Vice-roi
    was ” parachuted ” literaly installed or lets say
    brought in by Nehru to further sabotage, which ended up
    in the demand for seperate state for ” MUSLIMS “, you
    and your party zealots should stop propogating that Nehru
    made Pakistan, this is nonsensical hypothication just
    to discredit M L and Quaid,
    NO WHERE FOR ONE MOMENT SECULARISM WAS BROUGHT INTO ANY
    DISCUSSION OR EVEN ALLUSIONED.
    AND THIS IS HOW ” PAKISTAN KA MATLAB KIA ” RESPONDED
    WITH ETERNAL ” LA ILLAHA ILLALAH ” THIS IS HISTORY
    WHICH CAN NOT BE CHANGE OR ALTERED BY YOU OR BACHA KHAN
    MERHOOM, ALTAF HUSSAIN OR ABID HASSAN MANTO AND HIS
    HALI MAWALIS.

  • readinglord |

    @Kashmiri

    Thank you for such a long discourse in response to my post. You perhaps misunderstood my remark about ‘Halfi’ Muslims. They, I had stated, are found only in Pakistan as it is only that country that the Muslims have to prove their claim to faith by submission of an insulting affidavit to, God knows whom, for getting an ID card even, in accordance with Fiqah-e-bhuttwiah-wal-Ziaeyah.

    As regards the faith of Ahmadies or Shias, I did not question the authority of the Mullah to declare them whatever they like. In my view it was no business of the state to become a judge upon the faith of its citizens and fatwanize its Constitution to condemn the faith of a section of its citizens.

    Btw, Obama, who calls himself a ‘La-mazhab’,
    has won the election as a President of the United States, the sole ‘Super Power’ of the world today. Would you like him to declare all Muslims as extremists, terrorists, etc., and get them declared as ‘waajibulqatl’ by the UNO?

    As regards the statement of Moulana Azad, I wonder if you have tried to prove it or dis-prove it by stating the instances of carnage of the Muslims in India. Paky ‘Halfi’ Muslims can perhaps do nothing to help them, the ‘Non-halfi’ Muslims of India, though not institutionalized as ‘Maleechhas’ yet by the Indian Government.

  • Rafay Kashmiri |

    @ readinglord,

    I try to be short, according to your paras :

    1. ID. they only ask to indentify, if belonging to
    minority or muslims, No insults NOT TO CATAGORIZE OR
    PASS JUDEGMENT FOR GOOD OR BAD, according to my infos,
    in the contitution, article…. give only the definiton
    of a non-muslim, who is a non-muslim, thats all.

    2. Islamic Republic of Pakistan is an historically
    exceptional case in the History of states, born with
    a muslim identity. The state and her constitution must
    carry minimum coherence as to type of republic !
    authority of Mullah is not in the balance, its national
    assembly’s legislation made by politicians, how many
    Mullah were there ?

    3. US and EU have, both officially and unofficially,
    declared an important part of muslim popuplation in
    their respective believes & countries as terrorists,
    they have even named some political parties. Non in
    this world or in UNO can define who is to be catagorized
    as a terrorist ? what is terrorism ? If you can please
    go ahead . We can call USA & EU as investors in Int.
    terrorism, would you contest that ?

    4. Sir, you are not clear on AZAD, as you seems to have
    claimed that non-halfis, though not institutionalized as
    maleechhas yet by the Indian Govt.
    YOU MAKE ME LAUGH, Sir, Do you think that Indian
    junta, RSS or jan-sangh butchers will ask you if you
    are Halfis, or not. All non Hindus are catagorized as
    achoots, maleechaas, shudars, and non-caste.

    India is comitting Genocide without declaring the
    minorities, so that every thing is done quietly under
    the false banner of secularism.

    I hope you are satisfied with my modest answers.

  • readinglord |

    @Kashmiri

    No sir I am not satisfied at all. You failed to understand what I meant by ‘Halfi’ Muslims. In Pakiland the state is claimed to be Islamic without submitting any ‘Halaf nama’ which all citizens of the state who claim to be Muslims, and Muslims alone, have to submit. Still you can laugh and celebrate your birth as a free citizen. Btw, did you get an ID card, a passport or got registered as a voter? If you had done this you would have signed the ‘Half’ in the application form if you claimed to be a Muslim. Or perhaps you are ‘na-baaligh’ yet as appears from your thinking.

  • Rafay Kashmiri |

    @ Readinglord,

    Since the state is made of “persons”, i.e citizens
    with their ” identity ” already established, every
    Minister, PM or President or Speaker, members of
    legislative have to take oath, in addition to their
    own ID cards already existing.

    Yes, are right I am still ” na-baaligh ” as I have’nt
    filled any Halfnamah, nobody has yet established when
    can a human being “become” BAALIGH !!!

  • readinglord |

    @temporal

    Your quote from Quran(5:32):

    “…if any one slew a person – unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.”

    This is just an observation made by the Qurani Allah to Bani Israel that gives rise to many questions.

    In the first place, I wonder why God who is supposed to be almighty, the sole controller of life and death, makes innocuous observations like a journalist.

    Secondly, since uncountable innocent persons, including children and women, are being murdered in the world every day without commiting any mischief which apprently means that we all stand murdered (Not made ‘Shaheed’mind)according to the observation of God.

    Thrdly, who is the authority to decide who is committing a mischief. For instance our tribals are being killed today, including childeren and women, both by America and Paky Army and also by by Qabaailies themselves who are called ‘Askariat-Pasand’, which of them be judged as a ‘ischief-makerm’ slayiung the humanity nth times over.

    My mind boggles and I am constrained to end this harangue by a couplet from a Bolywood song:

    “Yih kia jageh he dosto, yih koun sa dayaar he
    Hadd-e-nigaah tak jahaan ghubar hi ghubaar he”

  • readinglord |

    @Kqashmiri

    So you are perhaps Kashmiri on the ‘Maqboozah’ side of Kashmir wherein one can claim his faith as of right without filling any ‘Halfnama’ and even the paky goverment would recognize you as such, whereas in the pakiland they allow such right only to one who claims to be Ahmadi Muslim.

  • Rafay Kashmiri |

    @ readinglord,

    Maqbooza is majority muslim country invaded by
    Indian Martial law dictators since 1948, you agree ?

    Pakistan is an ISLAMIC REPUBLIC with a constitution
    and a legislative OK ? Majority rules ok ?

    the difference is, one is occupied (not free),
    does NOT have a constitution, although expressed its
    adherence to Pakistan since 70 years, you know the
    reason well, and the other is FREE. The law in the
    constitution is for every member of minority in Pak.
    Not only Qadianis.

  • readinglord |

    @Kashmiri

    Excuse me, this is beyond the comprehention of a ‘Na-baaligh’ Kashmiri whose land was sold by the British alongwith the Kashmiri Haatoes inhabiting it just for a paltry sum of Rs.75 lakhs or so. Its registry can be seen in the old archives in the Punjab Secretariat. And now they have come to teach us Pakies about our so called constitution which can stand only as a ‘Fatwa’, trouncing the basic human rights of the citizens.

  • Rafay Kashmiri |

    @ readinglord,
    irrelevant
    you are mixing up, everything, go thru
    Amritsar agreement, according to which
    Kashmir was sold by the Vicious Hindu/Sikh Maharaja
    to British dogs, when the Sikhs of Punjab were beaten
    their arses by British, and the religion of Islam
    sold to British by Mirza who was quite ” Baaligh ”
    in Punjab, btw have ever read Iqbal’s Nazm
    ” Punjabi Musalman ” ! please go thru it .

  • readinglord |

    @Kashmiri

    No I do not recognize any body as a Muslim unless he has submitted the ‘half-nama’ with oath of ‘khatme-nabuwwat’ and condemnation of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as an impostor.

  • readinglord |

    @Kashmiri

    An explanation:

    What I said in my previous post about oath of ‘khatme-nabuwwat’, is constitutional and legal requirement only for those who claim to be Muslims, as faith of all Muslims only is doubtful and questionable. And since the Paky Constitution is called an Islamic one this applies to Muslims all over the world being an Islamic injunction (Ijmah). I, personally, feel insulted, whenever I am called upon to sign-up this ‘half-nama’ as a Muslim.

  • dr_jawwad71 |

    @readinglord!
    Did you ever pass a check post? Where a soldier ask you to stop and ask you to identify yourself. You show him your id card, your registration papers and driving license. Then he asks to search your car some time he open the bags even carry body search and then ask you to leave. With out any distastefulness you leave the place.
    Why???……..because you understand the importance of his duty. Because what he is doing is just performing his duty to protect the citizens.
    Similarly the biggest minds of Pakistan including zulifiqar ali Bhutto realized that qadiyani want to become jews of Pakistan (his own words).at that time political leader ship decided to out cast the qadiyanis from the main stream( legitimacy according to Islam was another issue)
    If some one ask me to give the “half nama” I do it with pleasure. For me it is the same as passing through check post because I can understand the importance of half nama.

  • readinglord |

    @ dr_jawwad71

    What a faulty logic! Dear Dr, one can, of coarse, search my car, my papers, etc., but how can one search my heart to verify my real faith?

    The Pakies can perhaps be called Muslims in terms of verse 14 of Sura Hujrat as reproduced hereunder as in Pickthall’s translation:

    “The wandering Arabs (One can add here Paky Muslims also) say: We believe. Say (unto them,OMohammad): Ye believe not,but rather say “We submit,” for the faith hath not yet entered into your hearts.”

    Identities are, of coarse, checked all over the world but it is only Pakistan that the faith, and that only of the Muslims, is considered questionable requiring a half nama, which can be verified only by God, as it is He who knows what is in your heart.

  • dr_jawwad71 |

    @readinglord!
    I still not being able to understand that what make you hurt or insulted?
    If some body asks me “are you a muslim?” my offhand response will be “ALHAMDULLILAH” with happiness and joy. And this is the common practice in muslim society.
    I do not see any reason to be offended.
    There are two aspect of this issue which should not be entangled.
    1) The relation of a Muslims with ALLAH (swt) according to which the only ALLAH (swt) can decide the strength of iman and deal according to it. Verse 14 of surah hujrat deals with divine knowledge of ALLAH (swt) as He is knows every thing and which is nothing to do with the law of state. Because state can not “see through the hearts of individual”
    2) The relation of a Muslim with the state. Only majority of people will decide (in the light of quran and sunnat) how the state will deal with its citizens (which have been done through “qarardad e maqasid” in 1956).a state can not decide the level of iman as it does not have that power, it will deal with legal formalities.
    3) If you are not qadiyani then you can easily understand the back ground of half nama it’s inevitability and it’s coherent importance in country like paksitan.
    4) Half nama is required not to alienate the christians, hindu ,sikh or parsi but to differentiate muslims from machinating and deceitful qadiyanis. Who are the product of forgery and deception; facilitated by “saltanat e englishiya” (I hope you will agree on this)

  • Rafay Kashmiri |

    @readinglord,

    your last para, its not so, Vatican and Catholic
    Church hold a life-long record of her fidel’s identity
    and proceed with acts accordingly.

    Israel holds total jewish-identity of her citizens from
    A-to Z as Israeli nationality basic criteria.

    Republic Serbia has accomplished her ethnic religious
    basis of national consensus.
    and others,

  • readinglord |

    mment by dr_jawwad71 on November 15, 2008 @ 3:55 pm
    @readinglord!
    I still not being able to understand that what make you hurt or insulted?
    If some body asks me “are you a muslim?” my offhand response will be “ALHAMDULLILAH” with happiness and joy. And this is the common practice in muslim society.
    I do not see any reason to be offended.
    There are two aspect of this issue which should not be entangled.
    1) The relation of a Muslims with ALLAH (swt) according to which the only ALLAH (swt) can decide the strength of iman and deal according to it. Verse 14 of surah hujrat deals with divine knowledge of ALLAH (swt) as He is knows every thing and which is nothing to do with the law of state. Because state can not “see through the hearts of individual”
    2) The relation of a Muslim with the state. Only majority of people will decide (in the light of quran and sunnat) how the state will deal with its citizens (which have been done through “qarardad e maqasid” in 1956).a state can not decide the level of iman as it does not have that power, it will deal with legal formalities.
    3) If you are not qadiyani then you can easily understand the back ground of half nama it’s inevitability and it’s coherent importance in country like paksitan.
    4) Half nama is required not to alienate the christians, hindu ,sikh or parsi but to differentiate muslims from machinating and deceitful qadiyanis. Who are the product of forgery and deception; facilitated by “saltanat e englishiya” (I hope you will agree on this)
    (Anextract from Teeth ‘Pakistan ka matlab kia?’ to comment)

    ________________________________________________________________—-

    @ dr_jawwad71

    Thank you dear for your kind and learned response. I will try to reply to the questions raised by you ad seriatim hereunder:

    Q.1. I still not being able to understand that what make you hurt or insulted?

    Ans.: My reason for feeling hurt and insulted is the same as made Imam Hussain to refuse to offer ‘Beyit’ to the so called ‘Khaleefah’ Yazid of a so called ‘Islamic’ state when majority of the so called Muslims behaved otherwise. It was this reason that made Yazid to get a ‘Fatwa’ from the so called ‘Ullema’ to declare Hussain ‘Kharij-az-Islam’. This is what has been done by converting the Constitution of Pakistan into a Yazidi ‘Fatwa’ by taking away the right of its citizens to declare allegiance to any faith as of right. As it is, your claim to call yourself a Muslim will not be accepted by the state unless you submit a Half namah like a ‘beyit’ required to be submitted to a Yazidi despot.

    It is another question whether Islam at all allows the ‘taghooti’ apparatus of the so called state when it shows abhorrence to its coercive machinery, like police, taxation, prisons, etc., etc., and the Quran declares ‘La hukmo illa Lillah’ and ‘La ikrah fiddin’.

    Q.2. You say:

    “If some body asks me “are you a muslim?” my offhand response will be “ALHAMDULLILAH” with happiness and joy. And this is the common practice in muslim society.
    I do not see any reason to be offended.”

    Ans./comments:

    Certainly my response will also be the same as I believe in ‘AlHAMDULILLAH’ which in my view means ‘All praise be to Allah’. This shows extreme humility when making any claim about your faith even. But excuse me, by implication, you seem to be placing yourself and the ‘state’ on a pedestal, higher even than God, by denouncing the faith of others and conferring to the latter the authority to judge upon the faith of its citizens.

  • readinglord |

    @Kashmiri

    No dear NB you did not get at the problem which is special to the Pakiland. Here the question is not one of identity only of the professed religion, faith , ethnicity, etc., but also of preventing certain citizens to call them Muslims as of right. For instance, if you call yourself a Hindu, a Sikh, a Jew, or even an Ahmadi, they won’t ask you for a halfnama as they believe, by implication , that they would be true to their faith but the moment you call yourself a Muslim the warning bell rings to call for an inquiry into your faith by calling upon you to fill up a halfnama condemning the Ahmadi faith and insulting their founder, believing again that an Ahmadi would remain true to his faith and won’t call himself a Muslim by abusing his founder like a Sikh did in a ‘Sikh and a Peer’ story. This is a sinister and idiotic technical machination by anti-Muslim and anti-human Fassadi (Mullah’s deen is ‘deene fassad’ according to Allama Iqbal) Mullah for obtaining ‘beyit’ to their superemacy like a demi-god, determining the faith of the people, in Yazidi fashion, in collusion with munafiqeen politicians. All this is beyond comprehension of a’Na-baaligh’ like you. So please don’t bother yourself with such intricate matters.

  • Rafay Kashmiri |

    @ readinglord,

    you are mixing up everything, you don’t want to

    understand.

  • readinglord |

    @Kashmiri

    You may be correct perhaps because there is some trace of blood of Imam Hussain in my veins who had defied a similar attempt by Yazid when almost entire ‘Muslim Umma’ had submitted to his un-holy writ as a poet had said about Hussain:

    “Sar daad nah daad dast dar daste Yazid
    Haqqah kih binaaey Laillah ast Hussain”

    What it is to say ‘Laillah’ today following the ‘Uswa-e-Hussain’? It means defying the writ of the false god of theocracy which they tried to establish, in collusion with self-seeking politicians, by calling for halfnamas from the Muslims and Muslims alone, even from those who had fought for establishment of Pakistan as Muslims in their own right and not by any sanction by the theocracy who had opposed it tooth and nail.

    So dear Kashmiri it is not the question of understanding but the call of one’s blood.

  • dr.jawwadkhan |

    “you seem to be placing yourself and the ‘state’ on a
    pedestal, higher even than God, by denouncing the faith
    of others and conferring to the latter the authority to
    judge upon the faith of its citizens”

    is it liberalism or is it qadiyaniyat??

  • readinglord |

    @dr.jawwadkhan

    Your question:

    “is it liberalism or is it qadiyaniyat??”

    disappointed me dear Jawwad.

    I wonder how could you smell ‘Qadiyaniyat’ in my posts?

    Btw, are you a medical professional?

    Please see some psychiatrist as you seem to be suffering from ‘qadiani phobia’. It is in fact this very phobia which has made a joke of Paky faith and got its Constitution subverted and corrupted so as to reduce it just to a fatwa against qadianiat. This ‘fatwa’ is the constitution of Pakistan now which is the only part of it which stands like a cancer even when the entire constitution stands abrogated or suspended off and on at the whim of a military userper.

  • dr.jawwadkhan |

    @readinglord
    it is not “qadiyani phobia” it is an expression of abomination towards deception, forgery and treason filled with endless conspiracies.
    Disappointed you?
    Yes…… many people got disappointed when they see unanimous repudiation for qadiyaniat. Not only because there are issues of legitimacy according to quran and sunnat but also the collusive behavior and their relentless work for loathful goals, persistent conspiracies which are alienated themselves in Pakistani society.
    People of Pakistan chose Islam as a source of law making and rejected qadiyaniat unanimously.
    And then people like you appear on different forums pretending a liberal muslim, calling Pakistani as “paky” to change their mind and winning heart and soul
    . What a pity?
    I have absolutely no reason to consult with a psychiatrist.
    But I suggest you to learn some manners.

  • readinglord |

    @dr.jawwadkhan

    I am sorry dear that you got offended by a sincere advice of mine. I never intended or expected it so and therefore withdraw my words which offended you.

    I may remind you that I no where defended what you call the ‘machinations of qadianies’ and hold no brief for them. It is,however, a fact that their persecution in Pakistan is providing a lot of sympathy for them in the world at large, especially in the West and earning bad name for the Pakiland in equal measure.

    In fact, my point in all this thread was that they are the lesser evil than the theocracy which has hijacked Pakistan and Islam to use it for their vested interest. They led Paky Parliament to convert the Constitution to make it a ‘Tafeeri Fatwa’ which went more in favour of Ahmadies. It was like cutting your nose to spite your face.

    You object to the word ‘Paky’, but this was the name the gora school boys in a London street used to shout at me whenever they saw me standing in the street waiting for the school bus of my daughter.

    Regards.

  • readinglord |

    Sorry! A correction in the third para of my previous post:

    “The word ‘Tafeeri’ occurring in the last but one line of the para be read as ‘Takfeeri'”.

  • Manish Awasthi |

    @KASHMIRI,

    Ithink bfore u spit out some thing,just analyse true facts.
    If muslims were killed in india like u said..then population percentage wud b decreasing…where as at the time of partition..muslims were 5% in india…n now they r 15%….where as hindus were 14% in pakistan at partition..n now they r 1%…n i dont think if any temples of hindus r left….plz dont show ur hypocracy so shamelessly.

  • dr.jawwadkhan |

    @KASHMIRI
    please do not mind manish awasthi!
    when it caomes to ground realities of gujrat messacre,kashmir’s ethnic cleansing,burning the train by army officers and countless riots against muslim community,ethnic cleansing of christians and sikhs, they run and take shelter under some kind of eutopia and start dreaming that every thing is just fine.these people are sleeping and you are distrbing their nice dreams.

  • imran |

    The country which was founded in the name of Islam hardly follows its teachings. The so called founder of Pakistan Mr. Jinnah hardly lived his life as per Islamic teachings (if at all he was a muslim). Ponder at the formal name of the country "Islamic Republic of Pakistan". My humble question is what Islam has to do with Republic…Islam talks only about khilafat as there is no place for republican ideology. Hope will only prevail once you have got the basics right. The country was not founded for the sake of muslim ummah rather it was a result of personality clash of some individuals. Do you expect things to improve unless shariya is practiced in the country?