This is an art exhibition of 5 victims of the brutal Nasirabad honor killings it is an attempt to keep tehir memory alive via art and dialogue and seek justice for these women whose murder outrages teh entire nation
Art Exhibition and Dialogue
‘No Honor in Killing, Making Visible Buried Truth’
Location: Benazir Gallery
Institute of Art and Design, Sindh University, Jamshoro
Date: Friday Feb 13, 2009
Time: 10.30 to 12 noon
Comments
129 responses to “No Honor in Killing – Making Visible Buried Truth”
All killings are Horror instead of Honor
Volume 9, Book 88, Number 183:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "Time will pass rapidly, good deeds will decrease, miserliness will be thrown (in the hearts of the people) afflictions will appear and there will be much 'Al-Harj." They said, "O Allah's Apostle! What is "Al-Harj?" He said, "Killing! Killing!"
Its all Horror-Killings instead of Honor-Killings.
Did Benazir Killing was honor killing or horror-killing? can sum1 tell me about it?
for me, it was a horror killing in which I also lost my bosom friend. He was killed when coming back from Benazir funeral.
Killings will be rampant as Prophet said above.
Killing occurs when injustice prevails. Avarice-Americans their minions and allies are unjust tyranny of the world.
ye cannot serve God and Mammon. This is core conflict for those who ponder and understand.
This honor killing mostly happens in sordid-sindh 1st, 2nd in perverse-punjab. Well did ye guys listen geo news of 5.pm in which one lahori passed 23 A-level papers in a row and not only gain 23000 thousands pound scholarship in Cambridge but also created World record which will be add on Guinness book of world records 2009. This can be Honor for our nation but alas he wont able to work in pak rather study and will find job there and his country will remain backward.
Nations, like Malaysia and Korea developed when they recall all their cream guys from abroad and give them opportunity to build their countries by establishing Industries and Tourism. We're contrary our Talent is in abroad seekin 'cupidity' and we pakies are dwelling in 'stupidity'
Our Industries are gettin close and our Tourism is zero.Our national institution getting privatized, our country treasure looting by central bankers/leaders and they're waging war 2wards us and we don't even know it.
World will be benign place if cupidity+stupidity vanish
Choose yours either;
1. Cupidity
2. Stupidity
3. None from above
@guYasir,
Benazir was executed because she did not respect
the "honour" of The B A T I L A N S, it was decided
in september 2007 in Badakhshan and Faizabad (Afghan
border cities) to get rid of her, as she had become a
useless but dangerous peon !!
The presents in that top secret meetings were,
CIA, RAW, Mossad, Khad, the meeting was confirmed
by a General on Geo TV in early october 2007
He who kills is an a$$ of U$/UA$$
kill Mammon(dbuh) instead of Mohammad(pbuh)
(dbuh) = death be upon him, (pbuh) = peace be upon him
good nite
Yassir
This can be Honor for our nation but alas he wont able to work in pak rather study and will find job there and his country will remain backward.
———
Indeed this is a tragedy.I am guilty of this .
But I am extremely positive ,soon Insha Allah .We have to develop Gawwadar.
————–
faru
I guess Gawadar is being developed and ready for shipping but 1st due to recession 2nd its not decide yet that which Authority gonna handle G.port either Port of Singapore Authority or Dubai Authority.
I read in moodys.com that most asian countries economy will remain 'stagnant' and liquidity prbs will be severe local banks will face difficult times and there'd be no progress in investment neither forun nor local and our credit rating can reduce more in near future.
This economic recession is reminiscent of 1930 Great Depression which was contrived to controlled USA and this recession or Greatest Depression is contrived to controlled whole world wealth.
Warburgs, as his name appears War-burgs is actually an architecture of all recession aka Great Depressions and founder of Fed.
Fed is flagitious for mankind if ye visit
http://www.buildfreedom.com/tl/rape3.shtml
Which says "we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks."
Please also visit and read if you haven't read it yet
9/11 was a Hoax; The American government killed its own people. (by John Kaminski)
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/911_a_hoax.htm
His own page is http://www.johnkaminski.info/
must read above jk instead of dr jk
yar you're forgetting how the jews are responsible for honor killings. cant imagine how you missed it. everyone knows about it. if you dont believe me go to wikipedia and type mummoon
there are 2 aspects of this issue
1) we observed in naseer abad area.that was one of the most hurting story one can hear.my hear goes out for those poor and helpless ladies.
i asked my self many times that how can we survive while we kill our mothers,sisters and daughters,just because they were asking their birth right and please do not forget the lowlife senator sana ullah zahri who came with the support of this murder and became closer to zardari and co.
2) the other issue is the serious one and more complicated.
ladies and gentlemen believe me or not.we are not the same as we were 20 years ago.we are suffering from moral decay.
our joint family system has been almost completely disintegrated a long ago.this means that there is less eyes for watch.and less people who can give the moral training.
the standards of the society has been changed.this society is more materilistic than ever.it is the matter which matters most in our society.
parents of today are more lenient and far more forgiving than the forefathers.
our threshold for many indecent things have been lessened.
islam is getting away from our lives.
and result the vice which was knocking our houses, has been sneaked in our bed rooms.(you know what i mean)
simply my question is that if some body saw his wife or sister in a indecent way with the other man what should he do?
if i ask this question to myself my answer will be "kill them both"
Doctor this is the real question.
Killing them is a reaction which is taught to us from culture not from religion.
Killing someone is not easy .One has to live with the consequences.
For example :the friends we loose,the people who die,we miss them.How can one live with the fact that one murdered his wife,sister or mother.(What ever the reason)
Secondly if a women walks into a room and find her brother or father or husband engaged in the same act what should she do?Just walk away quietly.
Adultress man or woman are commiting the same crime.Punishment should be equal and same for both of them.Without any discrimination of Gender.
Punishment is harsher for married people because they bring in more corruption.
Like in case of pregnancy etc.Mr.A can be bringing up the child of Mr.B which is so unfair and later on when the child of Mr.A marries the child of Mr.B they are marrying brother and siters.So it is a corruption of morality when we are leying to the child about his real father ,this crime is the most hediouse to me at least.
If it is young ,unmarried people,they should be got married.
If they are not one has to bring the charges agianst them in the court.Now to do that one has to provide evidence,if one fails in that it means the person should shut up.
Try to resolve it silently.This is precisely what Islam wants as per my personal understanding.
Almost every second women around the world ignores the fact that her husband sleeps outside marriage.
Personally I would not ruin my life by killing any such person.Why should I live with a murder.He or she can be some ones mother or father.That someone could be my child,would my child forgive me.
Definitely get such people out of your life though.They never realise how much pain and poison they have brought into the lives of all the people around them.Parents,children,inlaws and otherhalf.
Please note I am not using the word shame I am using the word pain .
anyway this is my openion.Why should I spend my life in a prison.
99 percent of such cases honour killing around the world are fake.And are the easiest way to get rid off the other half.
We cannot give people the right to murder others,because some people have their pride in everything,it is against their pride that they are a father of a girl.
Law has to be uniform for everyone.
@farrah k raja!
very true.it is matter of culture rather than the islam.
as i mentioned this issue is more complicated and even harder to comprehend especially woman who live and absorbed (partially) in a british society and culture.
1) why man? why can't a woman kill the same way?
it is not a gender related issue and certainly i am not believer of male chauvanism.for me the answer is simple.ALLAH (swt) made the mulim man(especially pakistani man) is such a way that whenever he see such things,many (if not all) will react just like "knee jerk" way. extremely aggravated anger wont allow you to think and analyse.
it does't happen with women.but if she kill in the state of extreme anger then i think that this extrem anger is a valid ground to be pardoned by court of law.
for me "adultry is more heinous crime than the murder"
you are absolutely right what you wrote in your posts.
but i still believe that honor killing is threat or a barrier of the fear which refrain some one to cross it.
my point is only that if some one see his wife,sis and mother in indecent way and kill her in the state of extreme anger then court should verified that this honor killing is not fake. and if it not fake then court should pardon that person.
Dr Jawwad
Gender issue is the core issue ,it has got nothing to do with me being living abroad or Westernised.
I fully accept being a woman I am weak,in Physical sense ,it is not possible for me to hit the guy with the same strength.
If I am angry at a woman or child I might but not to a man.His one punch is enough to break my jaw or send me to next world.
Even firing a gun and hitting someone hard enough that other person dies is extremly difficult.It takes two to three men to Zibah a Bakra on Qurabani.
So here what I mean is that women very rarely would walk into such a scene and would kill,
Surprising is ,it is never the man killed in honour killings but always a woman.
Here again because honour is attached with woman.
It is imposible for a raped woman(victim) to get married but the man who commits rape (the voilater) would keep braging about it and would feel proud about it.
This is what I mean it is cultural and not religious.
Looking at it again from Islamic point of view if a victim women will offer namaz it will be acceptable but not by the offender the male.
In act of sex it is two people involved,why women has to be punished alone.
Why a father feels angry about the daughter and not the son?This is my question?
I will be more scared if my son would drink because it means I am in the company of a drunk man?it makes me vulnerable.Why society does not see it n this way.
In the Eyes of Allah I am sure man and woman are equal ,Haj ,Rooza and Namaz of a man is not 30 times higher in degree than woman.
So I believe man and woman are equal in the Islamic Law.
It is just that woman are not consulted in making such Law.
One thing is sure this is a sin ,if done by consent two people are involved,why women should be killed alone.
There are so many different aspects to it.Anybody can kill his wife,sister and blame honour killing to get her share of property.
but i still believe that honor killing is threat or a barrier of the fear which refrain some one to cross it.
Think again Dr.Sahab.
the biggest refrain is only the fear of God.Secondly the awareness of damage one is doing to oneself ,in terms of exploitation.Of being abused ,sex without marriage is abuse.
It does not give any rights of motherhood,of right in property or social security neither emotional fulfilment of being accepted in society.
Allah always emphasise that agar tum sunjho tou yeah tumharai bhalai kai liyae hai.
A man who is caught commiting rape a worst punishment should be awarded to him.He is a constant danger and threat to the rest of the society.
Does our society see this in this way?Killing a victim woman means wiping the crime scene and thus sending the signal to the society that this is acceptable.
My appologies Dear Muslim men
I find my Allah extremely Compassionate and Merciful .He cannot prefer man to a woman.He thus addresses," sinful man and sinful woman "and than He speaks like ,"Riteous Man and righteous woman ."
Allah in Quran is speaking to mankind.Which consists of Both Man and Woman.
Hadood is very clear anyway ,there is no obscurity.Punishment is for both.
Again my question is why woman should be murdered and man spared?
Both are sinners.
Is it not where we see the influence of Culture on us other
than Islam?
Men and Women are equals in Islam but after marriages there's slightly upperhand of men which they use as their weapon and suppress women which is not legal. They who do honor killing has got meager info about his own religion.
Honor killing can be occur on love affairs and marriages outside of her clan not only on adultery but if sum1 wife do commit adultery then her hubby can outcast her via divorce if he wants instead of killing her.
Most important thing is that whether are ye among believers instead of patriotic? which is more important question to ask to yourself.
A man becomes a man when he finally believes in himself that I'm among believers and doesn't put any man or woman above him. no self-deification in Islam. All happening 1st our meager info about our own religion 2nd becuz of Americanism
There's a difference between Love and Worship. Love can be for any1 like your parents, siblings, friends, wife, kids etc
but Worship is only for Allah and Allah Alone in which we are lacking our kaba turns kabala.
Koran says marry with believing women far better dan to get marry to an unbelieving women no matter she's billionaire and believing women is pennyaire so emphasis on believing women, so men and women should ask to urself 1st that whether are V among believers which prescribe by Koran and last Prophet.
Jews are responsible for all honor killing.
Yassir
Good comment .
Dr Jawwad
Please keep posting.My response is not specifically directed at you .Actually when I was growing up in Zia Era Shariat Law was presented to me with criticism and brutality
I have found Shariat Law as opposite to brutality ,Justice and swear punishment to abstain people.
I find huge injustice taking place in Pakistan because of social norms and Judicial system which is to fascilitate the rich and prosecute the poor.Because Pakistan has this certificate of Islamic Republic of Pakistan we got away with half hearted implementation of Zia's Islam,which was not meant to provide Justice but this ystem saw women as a root of all evil.This rule strenghtens man and his wrong doings.Clearly this is not the rule of Shariat.
Shariat does not recognise the difference of man or women.
We cannot joke with Islam anymore.
An ordinary drunk man can be get away with Tazir but a religious man found drunk or a judge found drunk should serve twice the punishment he is doing more harm to society.
To be a Qazi is the most difficult job ,put yourself in a position where you are about to sentence someone to death and if that punishment is wrong whaty would be the answer to God.
What would be HIS punishment to Qazi?
A true Qazi would never sleep.He would always be trembling with fear.
Do we see such people around?
———
Please remember this is a dialogue and not directed personally at you.I find you and few others really interested in discussing Islam.
Shariat Law is the core of it we must discuss it.
Man ego,pride and honour might be big but not bigger than womans life.In most of the honour killings it is just the ordinary things that a brother likes to stand on the bus stop and tease other girls so his honour is threatened when his sister uses the same route to go to school or college.
It is never the case of what girls do when they go to school,it is always what men do to their girlfriends which horrifies them.
Behind this whole bloody honour thing is mans own weired pshcye they onle see sexin women but that is always the last thing in woman's mind.
vishnu
Jews killed honorable divine-spark from their bodies and goin towards darkness. Obama.co is an example of it.
My math says, yahudi + hindU = HalluciNations
Your Upanishads is similar like Talmud you both tarnished your own sacred scriptures and hell-bent to flushing our Koran soon ye gonna taste an awful punishment and your egregore won't safe ye from that punishment. well ye give punishment to your corpses from ur own hands by cremated em which is a sign that you are made for Hell.
@ In Islamic law or Hudood, there is an element
which is quite often forgotten, the element of
pardon, repent and repair to avoid hudood.
Some thing extra, side by side of check and balance.
Today we stand victim of our own corruptions, still
tolerating Brit Laws in Pakistan is the most backward
thing one can have, 70 % of those laws are abrogated
or amended UK by Brits themselves, what a joke !!
and we are still living with them, as a sacred
Pir ki gaddi inside a museum decorated with kitsch.
erratum,
in my third line " to avoid punishment " not avoiding
hudood. thanks
thanks farrah!
actually i am searching some thing from seerat e tayyaba.that was i read many years ago i ,ll be back after my search will complete.
@vishnu!
please do not tease guyasir.our yasir sahib "zara hat ke hen"
dr jk
please do not tease guyasir.our yasir sahib “zara hat ke hen”
jabi aap ki sub se zada 'haat' thee hai muj se, where's your buddy barristerakc or akd ?
faru, thanx for compliment i got international praise by one canadian guy at Eric Margolis page way back in 2005.
All praise due to Allah and I myself nothing and can't castout evil from this world. I wish i could but i cant so i wont it'll be happen miraculously when true messiah(Jesus) 2nd coming occurs.
All i can do is to illustrate fight between Good and Evil and try to give ye a lesson so ye may ponder and prosper.I want Ummah should prosper from their own system. Anyway;
I'm working on my own website which I'll launch soon in near future constantly working on it so raat aur din ka pata he nahi chalta, as Prophet said that Time will pass rapidly in above Hadith i quoted from Shahi Bukhari section was end-times to which we are gettin closer day by day.
Kill Moloch(dbuh) instead of Mohammad(pbuh)
Good nite and and kill 'moloch' in your dreams
Moloch one meaning is. A tyrannical power to be propitiated by human subservience or sacrifice
2. Any lizard of the genus Moloch
Kill lizards instead of women
@guyasir
khuda na karey meri kiyoon hatney lagi.men to aap ke madahon men se hoon.i believe you are the most learned person in teeth maestro (although @karachikhatmal do not agree with that) but for me you are the genius the only problem with you like other geniuses that aap zara hatey huwe hen.hahahahha.lolz
Vishnu is responsible for all honour killing.
Woman's pride and life ends when a man or husband dies so she has to be a Satee and no right to marry again.
In Christianity woman if becomes a Nun cannot marry ,cannot seek divorce and remarry.
Getting divorce in UK is so difficult many people prefer to live as couples.To save the cost of getting married at the first place and than to save oneself of legal costs of getting divorce.
@ farrah k raja and @guyasir
follow this link and decide that seeing some stranger with female relative in a indecent position is a reason for killing in a extrem anger
http://www.maududi.org/writing/readrm.php?aid=rm0…
Asad Ali on February 14, 2009 @ 12:24 am
good point
dr jk
(although @karachikhatmal do not agree with that)
I damn care of moloch/lizards and mosquitoes/khatmal I do kill 'em both at once whenever i catch 'em
Regarding ye think I'm learned person glad to know ye think like that all becuz I'm Fastidious instead of Flagitious
Koran gives signs and sciences both I just read that article
http://www.khilafah.com/index.php/the-khilafah/ed…
Dr Jawwad
Maududi is talking about Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and Hazrat Ali.
Please note the person who saw this was neither Hazrat Ali nor Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) himself.
The person who saw this reported it to Prophet(PBUH) and Prophet decided.Hazrat Ali went away to carry this decision out but did not act upon it.
Explanation :
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)is a Supreme cuncil here ,whatever he decided is right.
That is the right of any Judge after listening make a decision.
Lesson: report the incident to the higher authority ,whatever decission they take.
——
No one has a right to take law into their own hands.Pre-meditative murder is the worst crime.
—–
The thing is simple to me.No one has a right to take away the life of another person.
"
Kissi kou dousrai ki jaan marnai ka haaq nahein hai."
ANyway any man who comes with a murder weapon to the police
station that he has murdered his sister or soemone because he had a suspicioin or he saw her with someone.
That person must be hanged.
Why he did not kill the man who was with his sister?
——-
Shame on the Judicial system ,feudal and ignorant makeup of the society where a Judge and law instead of seeking justice for the victim provides immunity to a murderer.
@farrah k raja!
"Explanation :
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)is a Supreme cuncil here ,whatever he decided is right.
That is the right of any Judge after listening make a decision"
right! but Rasoolullah Mohammed (PBUH) is also our Nabi whatever HE did became the HUJJAT for the followers.
yes it is not the right of any man to kill the woman even he see his woman in a indecent position with stranger.
@farrah!
please rest assured that i am not advocating or promoting the male chauvnism i am just telling you the behavior of the muslim man on one particular instance.
i believe our women deserve utmost respect,love and care but looking these women in the arms of stranger can be a reason for aggravated anger and wrath and if some one kill in this condition then the courts must show the sympathy.
farrah!
i am not talking about the condition which you are refering.in that case it is simply a murder.and murderer should be hanged with out any mercy.
if you read my first post especially the last sentence then you will realize that it is not about the gender.
So the courts should show mercy to a murderer just because he couldn't handle his anger?
Excellent. By that logic, I should go and punch the imam of my local mosque because his sermons about 'keeping women in control' and his 'duas' for terrorists every Friday really piss me off.
do it if you have balls.i bet you wont.because secularism do not/can not produce the man of the words.it can only produce the sisies which can only shake their asses on the tunes of their masters.
what if i kick your freaky butt and teach you a lesson about sentiments of general public.
It would come as a surprise to you but it's actually much better to have balls AND brains. While I respect a mullah's right to free speech, even if he doesn't respect mine and would probably want to kill me for it.
What exactly is "the man of the words"? How does killing your wife because she cheated on you make you a "man of the words"?
As for what secularism has or has not produced, the scholarly achievements of the secular and scientific mind helped bring the world out of the dark ages of religion.
As for the 'sisies' comment, guilty as charged. In fact, I should become a real man by hiding in caves, ambushing the enemy instead of fighting in the open, blowing up girls' schools and beheading unarmed, innocent women to teach "morality".
@ Danial Burki,
Mullah's right to free speech, who does'nt respect
your's and want to kill you for it ?
have you invented another Secular goolag ??
Crimes of passion are not "consulted" with a priest
of words !! just look around you, any country or
culture ! since 6000 years BC !!
just give us one example of a secular society which
removed " dark ages of religion" to replaced it with
thundering "enlightenements" ? !! come on !
No, you don't have to become a " real man " just join
Neocon's Army, and contribute to already genocided :
1.5 millions civilians in Iraq !
768.000 civilians women and children exterminated by US,
3000 Fata, NWFP women and children killed by drones
Takfiris, Tehrikis, Kharijits trained by Indo/Israeli
US neocons in 21 Indian consulates in Afghanistan
After all they were simple victims of your
secular/Neocons nazi-socialists, hiding and embeded
cowardly inside their bunkers, to teach which morality?
secular ??
"As for what secularism has or has not produced, the scholarly achievements of the secular and scientific mind helped bring the world out of the dark ages of religion"
came out of dark ages of religion?…congartulations
welcome in the hell of capitalist,materialist,zionist slave civilization of secularism where no civilized country is ready to condemn the genocide by israel.
millions of people lost their lives because one secular power want to protect its nation.
your secular russia invaded afghanistan and kill millions.
secular america killed millions in korea,vietnam and japan,iraq and afghanistan.
your scientific mind produced nuclear,chemical and biological warfare which can destroy the earth many times.
they produced bunkar buster, daizy cutters and MOBs.
state of art weaponary to enslave the other nation to prove their power.
your secular and scientific mind produce a economic system where every man on earth work for few global mafias.
thousands of tons of wheat can be destroyed but can not be sent to the drouth affected areas.
nude clubs,nude beaches,free sex, alchohal,drugs,bastard children high crime rate,sexully transmitted diseases.
funny thing is that these scientific achivements are dragging this earth at the brink of disastor…the global warming.
no real muslim give a damn about the scientific achivement of this hypocrite civilization
tell me how is your beloved asses of fasist secularism (musharraf and company)is different from taliban.i found taliban even better at least they do not attack on masjid and kill the innocent women and children with phosphorus bombs and heavy artilary.
and current monkeys of secularism who are ruling the pakistan are heading this nation where there is no future at all.
the man of a word is man of honor.the honor which is strange and alienated word for the pimp who happily gift his wife to his friends for enjoyment saying that if the flower spread fragrance for every one ,lights and color and breezeis for every one then why not my dearest friends can enjoy the "jawani" of my wife.
who are you people?
where the hell you come from?
To begin with, for a serious discussion's sake, please do not throw about labels that do not apply. (E.g. 'Zionism' has nothing to do with this discussion as it is an inherently religio-political concept)
Now, on to the first part of your post:
Agreed, there have been many conflicts that have been perpetrated by secular states and entitites. However, the question then is: is conflict and bloodshed exclusive to secular entities?
Obviously not. In fact, religion and its proponents (individuals and states) have been just as violent, if not more, than secular perpetrators of violence. Which is why your example of Israel does not apply: it is a religious state, not a secular one.
As for your 'criticism' of the current economic system, of course it's not perfect and there are many flaws, as shown by the current economic crisis. However, again, is the economic system the result of 'secularlism' or 'unchecked capitalism'? You are implying, nay asserting, a link here which actually does not exist.
Further, your mention of nuclear weapons etc is irrelevant, given that science is amoral. The users and their motives matter, not the science itself. The same research that helps eliminate polio and smallpox can be used for biological warfare; and nuclear plants can power homes and offices apart from producing warheads.
And the very science that you seem to detest is helping counter crises like global warming and food shortages. While the secular and scientific world helps figure out cures for cancer and better crops with higher yield for Africa, Muslims refuse to use contraception and have ten babies per family as a type of 'jihad'.
As for your 'nude clubs' etc argument is concerned, it's a non-starter. Concepts of liberty vary from community to community, and if, say, the Germans or Danes don't have a problem with it, so what? I think it is far better to have free sex between consenting adults. Further, who are Muslims to lecture on the propriety of sexual behaviour given that Mohammed married Ayesha when she was six and consummated the marriage when she was only nine-years-old?
The Taliban attack mosques all the time; there have been several in the last six months. In fact, they stoop as low as to attack funerals. And please don't provide rubbish arguments about how it's actually an evil partnership of RAW, Mossad and the CIA that is doing all this.
The phosphorus shells argument I'm assuming is related to Israel, which is, again, a religious state, not a secular one.
Who is talking about giving out one's wife for the 'enjoyment of friends'? The question was simple: how is murder the honourable option if one finds his wife cheating? And why should a court have mercy on someone who murders his wife on these grounds of 'honour'?
This conversation has gone off on many tangents because you refuse to answer the question raised. You are only embarrassing yourself with personal attacks.
Dr Jawwad and rest
If you visit my blog and read India Pakistan Peace ,Vaneet is trying to preach me against Paksitan army and this is where he wants mass get to gethear agaisnt our own army.Bullshit under the banner of Peace.
And now the above piece just shows if India cannot invade our country by land it wants to fight our belief through internet.
What can I say ?There comments are purely for the sake of provocation ?Let us not be frustrated and let them portray their picture of freesex if we do not buy it we do not.
@farrah
now i start to believe that treatment which Asad Ali gave to all indians is just right.
"baghal men churee munh men ram" these banya can not get rid of chanakya mentality.
now look at you.i wonder what happened to a proud secularist
why he is giving the lame excuses about the secular civilization?
"To begin with, for a serious discussion’s sake, please do not throw about labels that do not apply. (E.g. ‘Zionism’ has nothing to do with this discussion as it is an inherently religio-political concept)"
fallacies my dear fallacies!
zionist brain is behind almost every experience done on ideological grounds.secularism,fascism,nationalism,communism
globalization,free economy,free sex, weapons of mass destruction, world economy,you name it and when ever you dig deep u,ll find some jew at the end of this rabbit hole.ask our learned @guyasir he is the master in the zionism.
"Obviously not. In fact, religion and its proponents (individuals and states) have been just as violent, if not more, than secular perpetrators of violence.
i tell you what to do take a record of all the wars fought in last 1000 years or more.and compare the death toll(make rough estimate)of the people(innocent) who died in the name of religion with the people who died in the name of freedom,liberty,nationalism, world dominance and war against terrorism.
i can gauranty the result will be surprising even for any proud secularist.
in which world you are living?
" While the secular and scientific world helps figure out cures for cancer and better crops with higher yield for Africa"
now you are making me laugh.wake up buddy wake up.do you have any idea what the global pharmaceutical companies did to the poor africans?…use google search engine if you cant use your brain.this claim is even joke for the many europians.
"The phosphorus shells argument I’m assuming is related to Israel, which is, again, a religious state, not a secular one"
no dear it is about wild pig of secularism…gen pervez musharraf and use of phosphorus bomb against the women and children of jamia hafsa.
"Who is talking about giving out one’s wife for the ‘enjoyment of friends’?
its seems you even do not know the ABC of secularism. your naive and bookish approach towars secularism needs some reality check. i tell you what to do? have a friendship with any member of elite class and ask him to let you join the new year party night.i am sure it will help you in a proper introduction with real secularism.then you will understand that secularism is a way of life not an ideology.
"And why should a court have mercy on someone who murders his wife on these grounds of ‘honour’?"
it seems that we both are aliens to each other.that is why i ask every time i meet with a secularist:
who are you people ?
where the hell you come from?
Dear Mr Khan,
My comment in response to yours has been deleted by the administrator; I'm still not quite sure why.
Either way, this administrative move says loads for the editorial policy of this blog. I wish you well, and hope to change your mind some other day!
best
D Burki
My sincerest apologies to the moderators, it was actually an internet error at my end. Kindly ignore and delete the previous comment. It stands retracted, cheers!
Mr.Danial
Your comment ,"Further, who are Muslims to lecture on the propriety of sexual behaviour given that Mohammed married Ayesha when she was six and consummated the marriage when she was only nine-years-old?"
A British boy at the age of 13 is a father today ,his girlfriend is fifteen.
So what the hell is your above comment about.
We have not come to your house to lecture you,you have jumped into a place where Muslims are discussing their values .
I do not see where you fit into all this.What do you know about our culture,our values,our religion and what even makes you think we want to know about it from you.
Some religions and nations believe in this and it is front page of International News :http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/article5707554.ece
Why are you bashing against Muslims dear!!
In response to Mr Khan's comment, I really am astounded by the lack of common sense.
As for the Zionist conspiracy behind everything, there is no way I can respond. For you sound like the sort who will blame the traffic problems in Pakistan even on Zionism. So I will allow you to remain deluded on that count.
As for the death toll: historians have tallied the numbers. And those historians that don't blame everything on the Jews have concluded that religion or its many manifestations have claimed more lives. Clever of you to try and plug in the "innocent" tag, heh.
Who is talking about global pharmaceutical companies? I am simply talking about the science. The science for high yield crops and AIDS medication is developed by generic companies as well. How do global pharma corporations come into this? Yet another attempt to sideline the conversation.
Jamia Hafsa? Who was using those women and children as human shields? Oh yes, I forgot, the real, brave warriors of Islam who are so full of heart and fight that they need to hide behind women and children as human shields and whose leader tries to escape in a burqa. Wow, super display of honour.
Your generalisation about secularists is simply in terrible taste. Who are you to judge people, and what evidence do you have to slap such accusations on ALL secularists? Shame, sir, shame.
Funnily, you STILL haven't answered the question I started with: Why should a court have mercy on a murderer who has taken his wife's life because of her cheating?
@ D burki!
if my previous post was not enough for you then i think it is useless to waste our time.i have no answer for eristical questions.you may enjoy your time in the utopia which i can't because i live in the real world.
"Funnily, you STILL haven’t answered the question I started with: Why should a court have mercy on a murderer who has taken his wife’s life because of her cheating?
regarding that question i have already said that we are aliens for each other.
tell me how can you understand the honor killing when you do no understand the word honor?
any how i got some thing from SEERAT E TAYYABA.i am sure it is not enough for you but it is sufficient answer for any muslim who seeks the guidance from the life of NABEE E KAREEM (SAAW).here is the link:
http://www.maududi.org/writing/readrm.php?aid=rm0…
have a nice day.
@ farrah!
will you give me the link of your blog.sorry i lost it.
@ Danial Burki,
just one conclusion for your info and leave it
at your appriciation,
Seculars always preserve & protect their " religion "
and use it to dominate others, like
the Neocons of USA
others are :
Israel
India
UK
France
Russia
I wish I could interogate Lt.Col Faiz Ahmed Faiz
in his grave on his handy !!! when and where did
his communism converted to secularism ?? or even
vice versa.
You're right, Mr Khan, the link you provided really isn't good enough and will not answer my question. So let that be the end of this conversation.
However, that you consider yourself the arbiter of who does and who does not understand honour is quite arrogant and distasteful. Coincidentally, these are the very charges you throw at secularists.
My bottomline is that murder is not justified on the basis of honour. And it seems that your bottomline remains that somehow killing another on the basis of 'honour' can be justified or be made a basis for leniency in a court of law. This is no different from the justifications presented by the likes of Senator Zehri.