By Nosheen Ali
Published initially in The News on April 7th 2009
The crisis in FATA and Swat has increasingly become reduced to a narrative of the evil Taliban versus the helpless state and society. That the Taliban have instituted a horrendous regime of terror is beyond question. But it is evasive and dangerous to think that the Taliban are the only bogeymen. We need to understand the ongoing crisis in terms of Talibanization as a historical process of Islamist moral policing and militancy, which has been an established part of state policy in Pakistan since its inception. Until we refuse to acknowledge this reality, and tackle it head on, we will be unable to address the existential mess in which we find ourselves today.
As early as the 1950s, senior government officials in Pakistan had begun to authorize hypocritical and intolerant religious policies in the name of promoting an Islamic identity for the new nation. For example, in The State of Martial Rule, Ayesha Jalal discusses how Prime Minister Liaqat Ali Khan issued an official injunction urging Muslims to fast, which subsequently paved the way for populist Islamist moral policing – mobs stormed restaurants that did not close during fasting hours, non-fasters were paraded through bazaars in NWFP with the support of the local police, and the judiciary in Haripur sentenced people for eating in public.
In such an environment, fundamentalist parties like the Jamaat-e-Islami flexed their muscles even more. By 1953, we had already succumbed to certain aspects of religious terror that we associate with the Taliban: in organized riots all over Punjab, religious parties as well as the Muslim League government collaborated in the extensive looting, arson, and murder of fellow Ahmadi Pakistani citizens.
Both the Pakistani state and society have thus been implicated in the process of Talibanization right from the start, reducing politics to cynical uses of religion instead of substantive citizenship, and encouraging a singular and authoritarian interpretation of Islam which is now being brought to its logical conclusion by the Taliban. Civilian and military governments have pandered to the fundamentalist lobby at every step for short-sighted political gains, and introduced Islamist policies themselves to strengthen their power.
The mullah-military alliance has obviously made matters much worse. For more than two decades, the military-intelligence regime in Pakistan actually produced, trained, and funded the militants of today for Cold War needs, as well for its shallow campaigns of violence in Afghanistan and Kashmir that it euphemistically calls “strategic depth.”
Contrary to popular opinion, the eight years of Musharraf’s “enlightened moderation” encouraged Islamist agendas even more. In the rigged elections of 2002, Musharraf and the ISI enabled religious parties to form a government for the first time in Pakistan’s history. Between 2002 and 2007, the MMA government in NWFP implemented a repressive Islam that has now paved the way for a more forceful assertion of power by the Taliban. The NWFP may not have had a very liberal society, but the intimidation of barbers, tailors, X-ray assistants, CD sellers, female health workers, NGO activists, and administrators of girls’ schools is a new phenomenon that began systematically with the MMA, and not with the Taliban. If there is a so-called moderate majority, it has largely refrained from organizing against this Islamist bigotry, partly because no one wants to be seen as falling outside the purview of an imagined, authentic Islam.
If extremism and militancy have been established tools of Pakistani militarization for over three decades, how can we count on the same military apparatus – that created, fed, and sustained fundamentalism – to challenge it? The failure of the Pakistan army against the Taliban is often posited as a structural difficulty: it is argued that a conventional army geared to fight against India simply cannot handle Taliban-style guerilla warfare. The argument is rather tenuous since the repressive machinery of the state in Pakistan is super-efficient when it wants to be: thousands of lawyers can be arrested in a day, and radio and TV channels banned in a second when they speak truth to power, but Maulvi Fazlullah’s FM station is allowed to thrive for years, the Lal Masjid clerics can openly terrorize citizens and not be arrested, 300 Taliban can publicly hang Pir Samiullah’s body, and Baitullah Mehsud can give press conferences like an opposition party leader. Why are we unwilling to acknowledge that there might be a failure in the will to counter the Taliban?
There are good reasons for this lack of will, beyond the historical patron-client relationship between the military and the militant. Many in the military see the spectre of the Taliban as a source of continuing US aid, and an opportunity to use that aid for distributing political favours, and facilitating military desires. Moreover, the military feels that when the US exits Afghanistan, the Taliban will likely be back in power, and hence ties with them should not be entirely broken. As before, the military is still suffering from the delusion that a “friendly” and controllable Taliban is a useful strategic partner for military interests.
Even if we assume that the military command has learnt from its mistakes and is sincere now, is a brutal military campaign that punishes and uproots entire populations justified? Will we begin to bomb villages in southern Punjab next, because they too have militant madressas? Or is the state wrath reserved only for Pashtuns? Should we kill all the Taliban everywhere? Can we?
We have to wake up to the fact that Talibanization as a process will not go away with killing the Taliban. If history is to be learnt from, it will continue to spread even more. There is enough evidence in recent decades that shows how military campaigns entail indiscriminate killings and destruction that swells the ranks of jihadis and makes them appear saviours instead of culprits. Not surprisingly, Taliban leaders openly state that American and Pakistani attacks have been a blessing for them.
So, what can we as citizens do? A long-term, pervasive problem demands long-term vision and collective engagement, not short-term military strikes and expedient deals. We need to recognize that the current mess is attributable not just to the figure of the Taliban, but to a systematic abuse of Islam and power by our political, military, and religious elite. As we learnt from the judicial crisis, pressure and mobilization from below is indispensable for making our polity more democratic and egalitarian. Hence, the same spirit that defined the civil rights movement for the restoration of the judiciary is needed for tackling the crisis of Islamist militancy in Pakistan.
We must start with the basics. We need to assertively say no to a military solution, whether pushed for by the US or our own government. We are already suffering from the blowback of the Afghan war, the Bush-Mush war on terror, and the Lal Masjid fiasco, and simply cannot afford more. Instead of bombing away, and then delivering development aid, we need to demand and initiate public accountability, reform, and rule of law. The perpetrators of religious terror in Pakistan are not just the terrorists, but also actors embedded in state and society, and neither have been made answerable. This has emboldened all those who want to abuse Islam to assert power. Why are such abusers never arrested, tried and sentenced before a court of law? This lack of deterrence is a major reason that the Taliban can openly flout the rule of law in the name of “Islamic” justice.
We need to push for legal reform which questions intolerance and injustice legitimized under the label of Sharia, instead of sanctioning it further as we have always done. Alongside, we need immediate steps such as curtailing the flow of funds to the militants, plugging their means of mobilization such as radio, and initiating plans for their rehabilitation. We must shed the hypocrisy of turning a blind eye to Waziristan and Bajaur, but panicking when the crisis reaches our beloved tourist destinations and urban enclaves. Instead of creating a misleading religious vs. secular divide, and demonizing ethnic groups and pious Muslims, we need to take back the meaning of Islam and ensure that ideologies of intolerance and discrimination are severely curtailed socially, as well as legally.
Instead of looking for saviours – be it a politician, a judge, or a commando – we need to collectively engage in holistic institution-building. We have to involve ourselves in the internal reform of our political parties, bureaucracy, judiciary, media, schools, and mosques to ensure that these critical institutions are geared towards the Muslim spirit of humanism and rule of law, not pretentious and prejudiced pronouncements on religion. And most importantly, we need to question the self-serving arrogance and impunity with which our military claims to define and defend our “national security.” This means a revision of the grossly misguided “strategic depth” policy, as well as parliamentary and public accountability of our military and intelligence agencies.
There can be no simple solution to the complex and deeply embedded process of Talibanization. And there will be no progress without an informed and proactive public.
Comments
48 responses to “The Long Road to Talibanisation”
@Le Mystique: During three six-month postings in Peshawar between 2003 and 2007, I found that religious hard-liners forced CD/DVD shops to shut down. Also, there were announcements in some commercial areas on the mosque loudspeaker, naming people who were not showing up to pray. Also, NGOs and their female staff were definitely targeted (one of the reasons I travelled to Peshawar in the first place). They were physically and verbally harassed on their way to work. This happened not only to NGOs, but to some Health Department workers too during polio vaccination drives. However, in Peshawar, I didn’t find barbers, tailors or X-ray assistants to be under threat.
Not only Peshawar, but Mansehra, Balakot, Abbottabad and Batagram also saw such high-handedness, that was at the very least encouraged, if not supported by MMA politicians. I am personally witness to this, and was in Batagram when extremist cowards attacked a Red Cross office that only had female workers inside. (What is it with these brave warriors of Islam only fighting women in the open and then hiding when it comes to proper security forces?)
So while the author’s assertion may not be entirely accurate, the larger fact that extremism and terrorism was wittingly or unwittingly supported by MMA elements in the NWFP during the early 00’s stands. And I’m glad you agree that saner voices are needed to stamp out extremism in Pakistan.
I found everything in this post EXCEPT the real timeline when talibans emerged.
Nice article, needs improvements.
I think it is bound to happen like all this havoc everywhere ,whereever islam n muslims are….dont understand why muslims wanna destroy everything in the name of islam…
"That the Taliban have instituted a horrendous regime of
terror is beyond question"
the secular fascists trying hard to make us consume same old bull shit again and again.
i wonder how nosheen ali will write once taliban will be in islamabad? and it make me laugh when i imagine nosheen ali wrapped in "shuttle cock burqa" walking one step behind her husband of fist long beard and ankle high shalwar carrying,scolding and abusing a dozen of kids on the bussy street in taliban era.
she used many harsh words against the taliban.i wonder what she will write when taliban will take control of islamabad.
and it also make me laugh when i try to imply the current pathetic mental conditions of paki liberal fascists with the newpapers of the france in march 1851 when napolean escaped and marched towards paris.read the following headlines of "monituer" and enjoy.
March 9: The Monster has escaped from his place of
banishment.
March 13: The Tyrant is now at Lyon. Fear and Terror
seized all at his appeaance.
March 18: The Usurper has ventured to approach to within
60 hours' march of the capital.
March 19: Bonaparte is advancing by forced marches, but
it is impossible he can reach Paris.
March 20: Napoleon will arrive under the walls of Paris
tomorrow.
March 21: The Emperor Napoleon is at Fountainbleau
March 22: Yesteday evening His Majesty the Emperor made
his public entry and arrived at the Tuileries.
Nothing can exceed the universal joy.
Dr Jawwad, the near pornographic manner in which you describe life for women under the Tallies reflects the kind of person you are.
And, probably unintentionally, you have confirmed that your beloved Tallies are not only sexist and violent, they also suppress free speech.
I really hope your female relatives and loved ones never have to suffer the Taliban's "justice", despite your disgusting views on women and your fetish for the Dark Ages that the Taliban want to establish in Pakistan.
pornographic manner?
taliban is also accused of forcing men to grow the fist long beard and having ankle high shalwar and women to wear the "shuttle cock" burqa and make them to stay in their houses.i think they will do the same in pakistan.
this whole scenario can be label as "evil" or "horrendous" or "human rights violation" and what not. but dear tell me how it can be a "pornographic"?
i know my english sucks but my words never interpretated this way.
One of the definitions of 'pornographic' as an adjective is: "related to lurid or sensational depictions".
Given this definition, re-read your own words: "it make me laugh when i imagine nosheen ali wrapped in 'shuttle cock burqa' walking one step behind her husband of fist long beard and ankle high shalwar carrying,scolding and abusing a dozen of kids on the bussy street in taliban era".
To a sensible observer, it would seem that you're taking some kind of pleasure in contemplating such a scenario; that's why I used the term 'pornographic'.
"Between 2002 and 2007, the MMA government in NWFP implemented a repressive Islam that has now paved the way for a more forceful assertion of power by the Taliban. The NWFP may not have had a very liberal society, but the intimidation of barbers, tailors, X-ray assistants, CD sellers, female health workers, NGO activists, and administrators of girls’ schools is a new phenomenon that began systematically with the MMA, and not with the Taliban."
Are there any statistics available regarding how many such extremist actions took place during MMA's 5 year rule? I am no fan of MMA but having lived in Peshawar from 2001 to 2005/2006, I find the above assertion a bit hard to swallow.
In any case, the piece is very well-written and I do agree with almost all of it. We need more of such saner voices so as to be able to shun off every type of extremism (religious, liberal, fascist, taleban, etc etc) and follow the normal moderate way of life.
One of the definitions of ‘pornographic’ as an adjective is: “related to lurid or sensational depictions”.
what sensational depictions are there in having 12 children?
hahahahahahaha.
you guys are just great.
@le mystique,
you said yourself that:
"I am no fan of MMA but having lived in Peshawar from 2001
to 2005/2006, I find the above assertion a bit hard to
swallow"
don't you think the whole article is nothing but a cheap propaganda?
and you call it a "saner voice"?
similarly i can say that what is written about jamat e islami,murder of fellow ahmedi and even about pervez musharraf,is nothing but a lie.
can any one believe that musharraf encouraged the islamic agenda?…..how?
what's wrong with you people?
Dr Jawwad: please refer to your 'imaginations' of the author under the Taliban. But wait, you're right, I don't expect someone with your medieval sensibilities to grasp such subtleties. Oh well.
No comments.
If the writer still does not understand the making of Taliban ,God bless us.I mean in political context,starting from Ayub Khan and no mention of Gen Zia and first Afghan war .
People please at least get the basics right.Taliban are no alliens and it is sheer lack of incompetence and misperception at the part of our press.
I do not see any complications in the making of Taliban.
There is only one challenge to separate Taliban from being Jihadees.They are not.
Foreigners should not be allowed to operate from Pakistan.Strict policy towards illitrates .Pakistan is still intact.
Taliban have not won this war.I was under this misperception as if Taliban have defeated USA and British.No they have not.It seems British ,USA and the rest had shown no commitment to this war.
Low diployment of forces and poorly equipped armies are the cause.
Afghanistan is utter mess and caos.The only question is how we stop it happening in our country.We can handle it,why we are failing is the question?
Where are we lacking at the political will and commitment?
Talibs are seekin rule which they had in Aghanistan b4 2001 and 3 Muslim countrys accepted their rule at that time.
1.UAE 2.Saudi Arab 3.Pak later many international observers/writers admire Talibs rules and regulations.
Eric Margolis is one who was very close to Talibs during sordid-soviets war as he covers/expert in south-asia conflicts/war. So He wrote in 2005 in his article and i did commentary there so he said that
"Talibs were pretty good rulers. There was no opium production neither any havoc during their rein."
He further wrote that But since US invaded it in 2001 the opium pro is 91.911% HIGH and havoc dont need to ask, it looks Vendetta.
farrah; have ye seen Vendetta movie? go and see ye just stick with your pc, if Talibs didn't defeat them neither Nato defeated by Talibs but T giving them tough times in battle field so they are now gonna pull all their forces from Iraq and wanna send in Duran and US-Nato isn't being sufficient there except for Drug smuggling and killing poor and innocent afghan folks.
It is UK guys who is behind all the drama being put on for the yokels. Are U Yokel?
If USA had no Air-power then US/UK would've been lost the war in 2005 but they are doin barbaric bombardment alongwith drones attacks which attracting folks towards jihad
Soviet/USSR has change and take form of Amreka/USSA. so US/UK are behind both afghan.pk havoc. Many Soviet was jihadies are residing in AFghan pak border and they don't accept Duran-Line drawn by the British-Crown.
And UK are trying to establish her demented dreams of British-Raj in our sub-continent.
If you are an adept you can get the whole world wars aka conflicts, credit and debit and who are behind all this credit cabal who??
Put sum pressure on your knees instead of mind then ye'll get.. UK wale samaj gae hogain uk aka free market, free society, capitalism, democracy may ju raythay hain
cya soon I ' M BaCK
Pakistan is bankrupt and playing in USA hands. seeking IMF which isn't Aid rather Aids for us.
Our military has made a pact with US-NATO since MUsh rein, no doubt US menaced mush and made a pact under duress.
Mush gone mad to see world sole-shoe super power next to his border and giving him threat to bombardment pak if he not gonna give US strategic support and stop Talibs-backing. USA is Air-wise super power rest is bankrupt.
If US has no Air-power then US would've been defeated by Talibans way back in 2005 but wait and watch soviet also gone vanished after a decade so US must takes 1.5 or 2+2 decades to gone vanished..
US is also bankrupt as ye can see Lehman brothers and many others and what happened in Germany where one billionaire Adolf Merkle committed suicide
Even billionaire having a trouble due to financial crises so what to say about Talibans…. ???
http://news.mylocoworld.com/adolf-merkle-commits-…
If billionaire will commit suicide how will ye stop these poor folks from suicide attacks…???
The system is making both rich and poor to commit self-suicides .. dis is sordid-system which we must look for change otherwise Obama change will bring more darkness and nothing else…
And Zardari will be more sordid-sycophant then Mush. He even allow US-Nato to fly from Pak bases and do drones attacks in FATA and will show minor verbal protest.
He and his son seems a$$whole who will divide pak into pieces like ZAB did in 1971 I think Zardari and bilawal should follow not Talibans but German Tycoon Adolf Merkle footstep he was a billionaire and asif is also baire
what ye say?
@guyasir!
welcome back dear.where were you been? we missed you.
The Long Road to Talibanisation by Nosheen Ali
===============================
Dear Ms. Nosheen,
The Threat of Talibanisation is nothing but eyewash. Actual background of this so-called Talibanization and the Real Threat is as under:
Pakistan: The Myth of an Islamist Peril By Frederic Grare Publisher: Carnegie Endowment Policy Brief #45, February 2006
The fear of an Islamic threat has been the driving force behind most Western countries’ foreign policies toward Pakistan in recent years. The possibility that violent Islamists will kill President Pervez Musharraf, throw Pakistan into turmoil, take over the country and its nuclear weapons, and escalate regional terrorism has dominated the psychological and political landscape. Such fears have usually led to support of the Pakistani military as the only institution able to contain the danger. But the Islamist threat is neither as great nor as autonomous as many assume. True, Pakistan has experienced more than its share of religious violence, both sectarian and jihadi. But serious law-and-order problems do not mean the fate of the state is at stake. No Islamic organization has ever been in a position to politically or militarily challenge the role of the one and only center of power in Pakistan: the army. On the contrary, the Pakistani Army has used Islamic organizations for its purposes, both at home and abroad. Islamist organizations balance the power of rival mainstream political parties, preserving the army’s role as national arbiter. The army has nurtured and sometimes deployed violent Islamists in Afghanistan (with U.S. support at first), Kashmir, and other hot spots on the subcontinent.
Click on link for the full text of this Carnegie Paper
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/files/45.grare.f…
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/files/45.grare.f…
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/files/45.grare.f…
——
Islam was not spread by the sword.
Sad to see that people are fond of danda bardar islam. You can beat a person and force him to pray in mosques; but then you will be creating a munafiq; not a momin. The person will never submit to Islam in the true sense.
Islam is just a cover for the taliban; they are just advancing the imperialist agenda of the west. Our politicians have continously been playing into the hands of the fascist western military machine; while the zionists are making most of the situation.
Soul of the arabs have died long back; everybody did lip service for palestine; they just watched in sharmal sheikh with wines in the hands as thousands died for no fault of their own.
The west already has gained financial monopoly by buying shares and becoming the major stakeholder of most of the world banks by this pre-meditated financial crisis.
The taliban will keep fighting until they have supporters in our country and in the arab world. The main purpose of the west is to destabilise a nuclear Pakistan through these taliban and find a reason to take control of the nuclear arsenal.
dr jk
I was in politics, i was in capital during long march and sri lankan team attack. i spent nites in Parliament Lodges and don't ask our politics and politicians in short they are sordid-sycophants.
@Danial Burki:
Thank you for the explanation. The context you provided does shed more light on the issue.
By the way, we do need to put things in perspective.
For instance, when you mentioned the NGO being attacked, it reminds me of the the kind of corporate crime and corruption most (if not all) of our NGOs are involved in. The middle and lower management could be termed innocent in this regard (if we don't equate silence to complicity). Such matters add more to the 'religious' zeal of our extremist friends out there. It makes them beleive that they indeed are the oppressed ones while the rest of the whole lot is doing nothing but conspiring against them in every possible way.
Social Injustice, hence is the main issue here. Isn't it?
Or I guess I just repeated what Nausheen said 🙂 .
@SM Imran H Zaidi:
I partially agree with you.
I have heard Mangal Bagh speaking on a pushtu video recently. T
his 'respected scholar of Islam' believes that there is no 'jabr' or force allowed to be used in case of non-muslims.
When the anchor person asked if he means that force can indeed be used to 'fix' muslims, the brave soldier of Islam replied with a cunning smile,
"Well in our land, all people are so good that we don't even need to use Jabr. They do whatever we want them to do without any use of force".
This all is really happening in our country. And it is not just limited to these taleban. It is the prevalent attitude of most of us in the whole country since ever. We need to do a bit of self-reflection. We have a long road ahead of us and the first step starts from our own homes.
The Long Road to Talibanisation by Nosheen Ali
====================
Dear Ms Nosheen Ali,
The real threat is not Mullah or Taliban but this:
Pakistan: The Myth of an Islamist Peril By Frederic Grare Publisher: Carnegie Endowment Policy Brief #45, February 2006
The fear of an Islamic threat has been the driving force behind most Western countries’ foreign policies toward Pakistan in recent years. The possibility that violent Islamists will
kill President Pervez Musharraf, throw Pakistan into turmoil, take over the country
and its nuclear weapons, and escalate regional terrorism has dominated the psychological
and political landscape. Such fears have usually led to support of the Pakistani military as
the only institution able to contain the danger. But the Islamist threat is neither as great nor as autonomous as many assume. True, Pakistan has experienced more than its share of religious violence, both sectarian and jihadi. But serious law-and-order problems do not mean the fate of the state is at stake. No Islamic organization has ever been in a position to politically or militarily challenge the role of the one and only center of power in Pakistan: the army. On the contrary, the Pakistani Army has used Islamic organizations for its purposes, both at home and abroad. Islamist organizations balance the power of rival mainstream political parties, preserving the army’s role as national arbiter. The army has nurtured and sometimes deployed violent Islamists in Afghanistan (with U.S. support at first), Kashmir, and other hot spots on the subcontinent.
there are two famous notions about islam:
1) islam is the religion of peace.
2) there is no force in islam.
both are partially true depends on circumstances.
* islam is the religion of peace when it play a dominant and decisive roll in the society.recent example is the taliban govt: they practically explained that why islam is known as religion of peace.
well my fiend!
the picture changes diametrically when diabolical forces take control.like we see in afghanistan and iraq.in that case islam instigate tremendous resistance and produce die hard and staunch followers who fight in an exemplary way
with that amount of resistance and hatred against diabolic
no one can expect the peace.
* there is no force in islam.again partially true.islam do not force the non muslims.but when you enter in the circle of islam, it continue force you till your death.force by one on himself and others.being muslim you can dispel it from your life.
in order to make your kids to offer pray, do you ask for his approval?
how you feel when you see a women in mini skirt on the your neighborhood?
can you ignore if your 21 yrs old daughter going out for date?
can you ignore if your 18 yr old son drink wine if front of you?
"THE USE OF FORCE MAKE US MUSLIM"
my biggest fear is that pakistani society is heading towards the direction where moral and ethical decay touches the hight of skies.
we need force before the diabolical culture engulf every thing.
how you feel when you see a women in mini skirt on the your neighborhood? [Dr Jawwad Khan]
==========================
Dear Jawwad Sahab,
Elation in Nether Region.
how you feel when you see a women in mini skirt on the your neighborhood? can you ignore if your 21 yrs old daughter going out for date?can you ignore if your 18 yr old son drink wine if front of you? [Dr Jawwad Khan]
====================
Dear Jawwad Khan,
We [Read Islamist Type of Political Activists] have too obsessed with the minor vices mentioned and these are nothing as compared to the Polytheist Practices going on in Muslim Countries [Data, Grave, Taweez Ganda and Pir Parasti, Taziya Bardari and Milad Sharif] and Polytheism wont be forgiven by Allah.
Lo! Allah forgiveth not that a partner should be ascribed unto Him. He forgiveth (all) save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners to Allah, he hath indeed invented a tremendous sin. [AN-NISA (WOMEN) Chapter 4 – Verse 48]
And (remember) when Luqman said unto his son, when he was exhorting him: O my dear son! Ascribe no partners unto Allah. Lo! to ascribe partners (unto Him) is a tremendous wrong [LUQMAN (LUQMAN) Chapter 31 – Verse 13]
On the authority of Anas (may Allah be pleased with him), who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) say: Allah the Almighty said:
O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great at it. [Tirmidhi and in Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal).
force by one on himself and others. [Dr Jawwad Khan]
=========================
Dear Jawwad Sahab,
Force and Action can only be taken by the Rulers not the individual group and if you insist that Individuals can force somebody else then please go and stop Polytheist Practices at Data Darbar or Shahbaz Qalandar Shrine and see what happen
In the light of your above Declaration!
In one your earlier posts when I offerred to be with you if you are ready to buldoze all the Pucca Graves and Tombs then you had said only Dawat and Tableegh [Peaceful Preaching] and now are telling about Forcing Others, If that is so then we should immediately discard the following Verses from Quran:
And if thy Lord willed, all who are in the earth would have believed together. Wouldst thou (Muhammad) compel men until they are believers? [YUNUS (JONAH) Chapter 10 – Verse 99]
And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender. [AL-ANKABOOT (THE SPIDER) Chapter 29 – Verse 46]
Had Allah willed, they had not been idolatrous. We have not set thee as a keeper over them, nor art thou responsible for them. Revile not those unto whom they pray beside Allah lest they wrongfully revile Allah through ignorance. Thus unto every nation have We made their deed seem fair. Then unto their Lord is their return, and He will tell them what they used to do. [AL-ANAAM (CATTLE, LIVESTOCK) Chapter 6 – Verse 107 and 108]
Muslims have already been advised:
There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower. [AL-BAQARA (THE COW) Chapter 2 – Verse 256]
And if any Muslim has still got the itch for Islami Dawah (Preaching) then the only option with Muslims is this:
Call unto the way of thy Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation, and reason with them in the better way. Lo! thy Lord is Best Aware of him who strayeth from His way, and He is Best Aware of those who go aright. [AN-NAHL (THE BEE) Chapter 16 – Verse 125]
As per History of Ibn-e-Khaldun [Volume 2]
When the Caliph Omar (May Allah be pleased with him) entered Jerusalem in the year 634, Islam granted freedom of worship to all religious communities in the city. Proclaiming to the inhabitants that their lives, and property were safe, and that their places of worship would never be taken from them, he asked the Christian patriarch Sophronius to accompany him on a visit to all the holy places.
======
Christian missionary, T.W. Arnold had this opinion on his study of the question of the spread of Islam: ". Of any organized attempt to force the acceptance of Islam on the non-Muslim population, or of any systematic persecution intended to stamp out the Christian religion, we hear nothing. Had the caliphs chosen to adopt either course of action, they might have swept away Christianity as easily as Ferdinand and Isabella drove Islam out of Spain (Thanks to Civil Wars in Muslim Rulers of Spain – History by Ibn Khaldun Volume 5, 6 and 7 ), or Louis XIV made Protestanism…" It is a function of Islamic law to protect the privileged status of minorities, and this is why non-Muslim places of worship have flourished all over the Islamic world.
Look and read this news story
http://www.jang.net/jm/4-9-2009/pic.asp?picname=1…
PSF (Secular party student wing), wreck arts council because they didn't like a picture of Benazir Bhutto
I bet, if a similar incident had happened in FATA all the news channels and their bitches would have been calling all sorts of protests
Great going, PSF. Show us your true colors
Tomorrow, Peer Sahib (kala naag) will be condemning Arts council not PSF
"the picture changes diametrically when diabolical forces take control" – jawad
not so long ago the diabolical forces were welcomed as saviours by the same people…
"not so long ago the diabolical forces were welcomed as
saviours by the same people"
fallacies…..because fallacies help appeasing the inner restlessness when you see the people are going for jihad.
so you close your eyes and start assuming worst thing possible for jihadis. not anly assuming but also propagate.
when did the american forces welcomed in afghanistan?
when did american forces come in afghanistan before 9/11?
fallacy or lie, i leave it up to you.
what people know that last time cia helped afghan mujahidin in fighting against soviet union to settle some scores in vietnam.
when did they come in uniform with the guns in hand before 9/11?
last time soviet union was a diabolical force which invaded the afghanistan.
but this fact is hard for you to digest.because SU/russia has close ties with iran.
"what people know that last time cia helped afghan mujahidin in fighting against soviet union to settle some scores in vietnam"
That time the so called mujahideen did not have a problem with the "Great Satan" helping them financially and in terms of hardware and even manpower? Why did not they ask for Allahs help if they were so keen to spread Islam? This so called jihad is just a cover for these people to spread fitnah in the ummah.
In doing jihad e asghar; the ummah has forgotten the jihad e akbar; the jihad e nafs. Thats where muslims are failing.
Oh and if they want to do jihad; why dont these people get into frickin containers and go to the america to fight? No; you have to have sipah e sahaba and lashkar e jhangvi to kill shias first; who cares about the Great Satan yeah?
Another 5 lunatic bastards from lashkare jhangvi caught with explosives and plans to blow up people inside imambargahs in karachi today. Whats the point killing muslims in Pakistan or elsewhere?
Close ties with russia? Russia having ties with Iran is just strategic. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". But your too jihadist to understand that. Ýou've understood jihad as a fascist way to implement and project your ideas onto everyone. What an aimless and guideless bunch of fanatics your taliban people are.
"the enemy of my enemy is my firend"
can't we apply this rule to the mujahiden when SU invaded afghanistan and CIA come to help afghan mujahideen?
jihad e akbar, jihad e asghar? who told you such things?
Why did not they ask for Allahs help if they were so keen to spread Islam?
first afghan mujhahidin didn't ask for help.when CIA saw the afghanistan a potenial graveyard they come to revange the foray over vietnam.
secondly it was not a jihad for spreading islam.it was a jihad to protect and defend the dar ul islam.
there will be no lashkar e jhangvi and no sepah e sahaba if shia community stop attacking the revered sahaba e kiram(ra)
bottom line..fallacies.
get over it.
Well i certainly expected your response as Ibne taimia has challenged the authenticity of the ahadith regarding the lesser and greater jihad.
Apne nafs pe qabu nahi hai dosron ko kia qabu karo ge…?
first afghan mujhahidin didn’t ask for help.when CIA saw the afghanistan a potenial graveyard they come to revange the foray over vietnam. [Dr Jawwad Khan]
=========================
Dear Jawwad Sahab,
This may open your eyes:
"quote"
"Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan and bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to 10 September 2001", by Steve Coll, New York: Penguin, 2004,
The motives of the White House and the CIA were shaped by the Cold War: a determination to kill as many Soviet soldiers as possible and the desire to restore some aura of rugged machismo as well as credibility that U.S. leaders feared they had lost when the Shah of Iran was overthrown. The CIA had no intricate strategy for the war it was unleashing in Afghanistan. Howard Hart, the agency's representative in the Pakistani capital, told Coll that he understood his orders as: "You're a young man; here's your bag of money, go raise hell. Don't fuck it up, just go out there and kill Soviets." These orders came from a most peculiar American. William Casey, the CIA's director from January 1981 to January 1987, was a Catholic Knight of Malta educated by Jesuits. Statues of the Virgin Mary filled his mansion, called "Maryknoll," on Long Island. He attended mass daily and urged Christianity on anyone who asked his advice. Once settled as CIA director under Reagan, he began to funnel covert action funds through the Catholic Church to anti-Communists in Poland and Central America, sometimes in violation of American law. He believed fervently that by increasing the Catholic Church's reach and power he could contain Communism's advance, or reverse it. From Casey's convictions grew the most important U.S. foreign policies of the 1980s – support for an international anti-Soviet crusade in Afghanistan and sponsorship of state terrorism in Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Guatemala.
Casey knew next to nothing about Islamic fundamentalism or the grievances of Middle Eastern nations against Western imperialism. He saw political Islam and the Catholic Church as natural allies in the counter-strategy of covert action to thwart Soviet imperialism. He believed that the USSR was trying to strike at the U.S. in Central America and in the oil-producing states of the Middle East. He supported Islam as a counter to the Soviet Union's atheism, and Coll suggests that he sometimes conflated lay Catholic organizations such as Opus Dei with the Muslim Brotherhood, the Egyptian extremist organization, of which Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's chief lieutenant, was a passionate member. The Muslim Brotherhood' s branch in Pakistan, the Jamaat-e-Islami, was strongly backed by the Pakistani army, and Coll writes that Casey, more than any other American, was responsible for welding the alliance of the CIA, Saudi intelligence, and the army of General Mohammed Zia-ul-Haq, Pakistan's military dictator from 1977 to 1988. On the suggestion of the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) organization, Casey went so far as to print thousands of copies of the Koran, which he shipped to the Afghan frontier for distribution in Afghanistan and Soviet Uzbekistan. He also fomented, without presidential authority, Muslim attacks inside the USSR and always held that the CIA's clandestine officers were too timid. He preferred the type represented by his friend Oliver North.
Over time, Casey's position hardened into CIA dogma, which its agents, protected by secrecy from ever having their ignorance exposed, enforced in every way they could. The agency resolutely refused to help choose winners and losers among the Afghan jihad's guerrilla leaders. The result, according to Coll, was that "Zia-ul-Haq's political and religious agenda in Afghanistan gradually became the CIA's own." In the era after Casey, some scholars, journalists, and members of Congress questioned the agency's lavish support of the Pakistan-backed Islamist general Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, especially after he refused to shake hands with Ronald Reagan because he was an infidel. But Milton Bearden, the Islamabad station chief from 1986 to 1989, and Frank Anderson, chief of the Afghan task force at Langley, vehemently defended Hekmatyar on the grounds that "he fielded the most effective anti-Soviet fighters."
"unquote"
first afghan mujhahidin didn’t ask for help.when CIA saw the afghanistan a potenial graveyard they come to revange the foray over vietnam. [Dr Jawwad Khan]
=========================
Dear Jawwad Sahab,
And if the above didn't help! This will help you to understand the so-called Jihad-e-Akbar of Afghanistan
Barack Obama, Zbigniew Brzezinski and Al Qaeda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V-bxx7OyZ0
Lets go back to history to learn as what kind of Jihad General Zia, General Akhter Abdul Rehman, US Diplomat Arnold Raphel, General Hamid Gul, General Asad Durrani and General Beg fought in Afghanistan.
Are We to Blame for Afghanistan? By Chalmers Johnson
"Asked whether he in any way regretted these actions,
Brzezinski replied:
Regret what? The secret operation was an excellent idea. It drew the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? On the day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter, saying, in essence: 'We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam War.'
Nouvel Observateur: "And neither do you regret having supported Islamic fundamentalism, which has given arms and advice to future terrorists?"
Brzezinski: "What is more important in world history? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some agitated Muslims or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the Cold War?"
http://hnn.us/articles/8438.html
first afghan mujhahidin didn’t ask for help.when CIA saw the afghanistan a potenial graveyard they come to revange the foray over vietnam. [Dr Jawwad Khan]
=========================
Dear Jawwad Sahab,
As per a Book "Jo Mein Nay Dekha by Rao Abdul Rsheed – FORMER IG Police and DG IB of First PPP Govt of Bhutto]
And even if the above didn’t help! This will help you to understand that the so-called Jihad-e-Akbar of Afghanistan was nothing but CIA's ploy to engage USSR in the light OF some facts of main handler i.e. Major General – BUTCHER [RETD] Naseerullah Babar who originally hired Afghan Bandits HHikmatyar, Rabbani, Masood, and a Real Dacoit Sibghatullah MMajjaddadi and Abdul Rasool Siyaf in 70s to finger Sardar Dawood in 70s.
More Details
Development of Pakistan's Foreign Policy:Case Study No.3 Case Study on Pakistan's Recognition of Taliban
http://www.ghalib.com/democracy/Foreign%20Policy/…
Afghanistan — not so great games Columnist Hamid Hussain does a detailed analysis of the present situation
http://www.defencejournal.com/2002/april/games.ht…
"QUOTE"
"The policy for the support of the Taliban was apparently conceived by Gen. (retd) Naseerullah Babar, the Interior Minister during the PPP regime and had the support of the Jamiat-i-Ulema-i-Islam (JUI) led by Maulana Fazalur-Rehamn which controlled the bulk of those Deeni Madressahs in the NWFP and Baluchistan.The transporters, drug mafias, other extremist Sunni organisations like the Sipah-i-Sahaba,(SSP) Lashka-e-Jhangvi,(LJ), Tehreek-i-Nifaz-i-Shariat-Mohammadi, (TNSM) also supported the policy. The Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) and the foreign office were apparently divided and were late converts to the policy. Gen. (retd) Naseerullah Babar was the in-charge of the Afghan policy during former Prime Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhuttto's rule (1971-77) and had masterminded the arming of the Afghan opposition led by Hikmatyar and Ahmed Shah Masood against Sardar Daud's regime (1973-1978). With Benazir Bhutto in power in 1993, he was entrusted with the task of reopening the route to Central Asian Republics through Afghanistan. He negotiated with the Afghan warlords to open the Quetta-Chaman-Kandahar-Herat route to Turkmenistan. The Pakistani convoy was stopped by the warlords in September 1994, which was freed by the Talibans. Many observers believe that Pakistan, having seen the potential of the nascent movement of the Taliban, began to support the movement which paved the way for their swift victories in Afghanistan.
The Deeni Madressahs led by the JUI (F) provided the manpower. Maulana Fazal-ur-Rehman, a close ally of the PPP who had been made the Chairman of the Parliamentary Committee of Foreign Affairs, also played a key role in garnering the support for the Taliban in the corridors of power. Various Pakistani governmental organisations like the PTCL, Railway, PIA and Ministry of Communications provided the infrastructural assistance to the Taliban. The ISI began to provide military supplies, logistical support, technical know how and the extensive knowledge of the Afghan situation.Apparently, the ISI and the foreign office were reluctant to support the Taliban in the beginning because of their potential implications for the broad-based political settlement in Afghanistan, however, fastly changing ground realities in the favour of Taliban forced them to shift their policies and throw their weight in the favour of the Taliban.
Gen. (Retd.) Naseerullah Babar and the military officers in ISI were motivated by the Pushtun ethnicity and viewed Talibans as the “Pushtun proxies” They wanted to revive the Pushtun fortunes in Afghanistan. It was first time that Kabul was being controlled by the Tajiks and it was painful for the Pushtuns to see Kabul under their control. The JUI (F) the JUI (S) and other extremist Sunni organisations like SSP, LJ,TNSM viewed Taliban's victories as the Deobandi's revolution and expected the same kind of revolution in Pakistan.The transporters' lobbies in Pakistan considered Taliban as a god-given saviour who were instrumental in removing the barriers on the roads in Afghanistan. They were sick of paying to the multitudes of Afghan warlords, who had virtually paralysed their business. The drug dealers also saw their vested interest in supporting the Taliban as they only demanded the tax on their product and had little qualm about the international concerns regarding drug controls.Consequences of the PolicyApparently, the policy of support for the Taliban appeared well suited for Pakistan's strategic, economic and political interests. The Talibans were controlling more than 90 per cent of Afghanistan and had pushed their rivals, Northern Alliance, to the wall.
They had been recognised by Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E. and were in the process of negotiating their recognition with the United States. However, there were serious long-term negative consequences of this policy for Afghanistan, Pakistan, the regional countries and the rest of the world, which had not been properly thought through while formulating the policy.The policy of support for the Taliban alienated other Afghan ethnic groups to the degree where the goal of a broad-based government became impossible to achieve. The very nature of the Taliban regime and their policies created severe problems for Pakistan as its polity, economy, and foreign policy began to be affected by the Taliban policies. The non-compromising attitude of the Taliban regime created difficulties for Pakistan with the United States and Saudi Arabia, eventually leading them to turn against Taliban. The ideology of Taliban alarmed Iran, Russia, Central Asian republics who began to support anti-Taliban forces actively.
First important lesson is that if the pros and cons of significant decisions are not thought through, the country has to suffer the consequences of the policy. Contrary to the widely held perception about the dominant role of the ISI in the making of the Afghan policy, the policy of the support of the Taliban was in fact conceived by Gen. (Retd.) Naseerullah Babar, the Interior Minister during the PPP regime (1993-1996). The Taliban policy was a civilian initiative possibly against the wishes of the ISI and the foreign office who wanted to continue the policy of seeking a broad-based settlement. However, the Pushtun element within the PPP, and later the military was able to push their way through to top echelon of power and succeeded in making it a Pakistan's policy with disastrous consequences for Afghanistan and Pakistan and the regional countries. It is surprising that the decision-makers overlooked the nature of Taliban's ideology, their social base, their implications for the Afghan society and their possible impact for Pakistan. Taliban's extremely narrow vision of Islam put them in clash with all the non-Pushtun minorities of the Afghan society pushing them into the arms of the foreign powers, stirred the wave of Talibanisation in the NWFP and Blauchistan leading to increasing conflict and violence in the Pakistani society and sent shockwaves in the regional countries, Iran, China, Russia and Central Asia republics.Secondly, their appeared a lack of coordination at the decision-making level among the different bodies. Interior Ministry, Parliamentary Committee, the Political Parties and Different lobbies had their own agenda. The ISI and the Foreign Office had their own policies. The ISI remained divided and continued backing both Hikmatyar and Taliban till the fall of Kabul in 1996.
"UN-QUOTE"
A good analysis indeed! I however think that the malady is too deep to be cured by administrative or political measures. It will have to be fought at ideological level, and that too not on the wicket of the extremists as being done by Javed Ahmad Ghamidi and others, but by, what they say, catching the bull by its horns. We will have to admit that the very basis for creation of Pakistan with its any degree of intensity has resulted in the crisis of identity. Here I paste an excerpt concluding an article under the title ‘Reinventing Pakistan’ appearing in the Daily Times of 9.4.09:
“Pakistan has reached a point where the state, defining itself on the basis of religion, cannot survive: either the state or the theocratic concepts will survive. Furthermore, the state of Pakistan cannot survive unless the intelligentsia and the masses reconcile to the concept of keeping their belief system to themselves and letting the state be neutral to religion. Unless the masses rally around the new concept of the state — slogans can be sugar-coated for such a goal — security agencies will never have the moral courage and strength to eradicate extremism. The time ‘to be or not to be’ is upon us.”
Here is the time now to come out boldly that we do not accept the Islam as interpreted by the Talibani Fascist extremists. For this purpose we will perhaps have to reinterpret the Quran-e-Hakim, if found necessary.
<a> Threat to Karachi
Threat to Karachi
Dear Ms. Jabeen,
How would we define Mr Aamir Liaquat Hussain's ranting ON GEO TV against the minority community which caused deaths.
Threat to Karachi – Jabeen
======================
This:
‘My fanatic versus your fanatic’ By Jawed Naqvi Thursday, 09 Apr, 2009 | 01:15 AM PST
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-…
http://www.newageislam.com/NewAgeIslamArticleDeta…
My comment of 10.4.09, starting with 'comment by re' above got bogged up somehow. I repeat it hereunder:
A good analysis indeed! I however think that the malady is too deep to be cured by administrative or political measures. It will have to be fought at ideological level, and that too not on the wicket of the extremists as being done by Javed Ahmad Ghamidi and others, but by, what they say, catching the bull by its horns. We will have to admit that the very basis for creation of Pakistan with its any degree of intensity has resulted in the crisis of identity. Here I paste an excerpt concluding an article under the title ‘Reinventing Pakistan’ appearing in the Daily Times of 9.4.09:
"Pakistan has reached a point where the state, defining itself on the basis of religion, cannot survive: either the state or the theocratic concepts will survive. Furthermore, the state of Pakistan cannot survive unless the intelligentsia and the masses reconcile to the concept of keeping their belief system to themselves and letting the state be neutral to religion. Unless the masses rally around the new concept of the state — slogans can be sugar-coated for such a goal — security agencies will never have the moral courage and strength to eradicate extremism. The time ‘to be or not to be’ is upon us.”
Here is the time now to come out boldly that we do not accept the Islam as interpreted by the Talibani Fascist extremists. For this purpose we will perhaps have to reinterpret the Quran-e-Hakim, if found necessary.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Does anyone know the current whereabouts of Terrorist supporter Saifee Durbar, or Saife Durbar or Minish Patel (the latter one of his false passports)or whatever alias he uses these days. The fraudster Saifee Durbar has screwed investors out of their life savings in Karachi and jailed Saifee Durabr is now on the run from the authorities in France where he was recently handed down a 4 year sentence for fraud. Still up to his old tricks of forged financial and banking documents. If anyone knows the current wherebaouts of fraudster Saifee Durbar or his latest wife Karin Durbar please respond to this message. Conman Saifee Durbar was lately driving car with D4 BUR on the plate around London. If financial fraudster Saifee Durbar dosen't cough up soon looks like his old man's gonna get it.
Does anyone know the current whereabouts of Terrorist supporter Saifee Durbar, or Saife Durbar or Minish Patel (the latter one of his false passports)or whatever alias he uses these days. The fraudster Saifee Durbar has screwed investors out of their life savings in Karachi and jailed Saifee Durbar is now on the run from the authorities in France where he was recently handed down a 4 year sentence for fraud. Still up to his old tricks of forged financial and banking documents. If anyone knows the current wherebaouts of fraudster Saifee Durbar or his latest wife Karin Durbar please respond to this message. Conman Saifee Durbar was lately driving car with D4 BUR on the plate around London. If financial fraudster Saifee Durbar dosen't cough up soon looks like his old man's gonna get it.
@ He must be in Bombay, cashing in a lot !!
@ everybody seems to forget Talibs are the recruits
of JUI-Fazul, Benazir and Clinton
Ref: Elections 1994
Jui-fazul voted for BB
Got Governorship of Baluchistan
Benazir initiated deployement of Talibs in Afghanistan
Clinton approved !
come on folks, get your poor memory "refreshened "!
come on pakis taliban are imposing the law of the most peaceful religion,(we have seen the video of how peaceful it is) so why fear .you will prosper like afghan did when taliban ruled them.it will not take a long time for taliban to bring you to stone age because you are very near to stone age.I love taliban for what they are doing implementing the law of the most peaceful religion.
after seeing the video clip of the followers of the most peaceful religion I think its better to be a infidels .see the state of law in land of followers of the most peaceful
religion its better we are not there.its better than to stay in the land of the followers of the most peaceful religion where a girl school is burnt ,where women are treated Like a piece of shit ,whom they think there are only sex object and they can beg but are not allowed to work its better that we are not in the land of most peaceful religion.
SAIFEE DURBAR is hiding in London fighting his extradition to France. Now-a-days he is milking Dutch businessman who takes care of his lifestyle and all his legal bills, in exchange he gets smuggled diamonds from Central African republic where DURBAR (DANBAR) was nominated Vice Foreign Minister by Presidential decree last February, except he is the only known foreign Minister who cannot travel abroad…He still runs his scams under KRUGERBRENT name with Phillip Saunders and David Risbey from London Mayfair office, he is also guarded 24 hrs by managingrisk.com. felons and to facilitate their job they made him informer as well.
His Victim's list gets bigger by the day and just recently he forged once again US Federal documents to embezzle his partner private Jet that was used to entice the Central African president and his corrupt ministers. The prosecutor in charge of his extradition case is Anne-Marie Kunder in London.
Home:7 Ilchester Place London
Tel: 44 207 603 9175
Office:94 Mount Street Mayfair London
Tel: 44 207 74936470
Mobile
44 7736 356601
44 7920707007
saif@krugerbrentholdings.com
saif@durbarholdings.com
His wife Carina
44 7823 555556
carina@durbardesigns.com
hello,your article is really nice.Keep it up.