A question lurks within the mind of every Pakistani: where are we headed with this war on/of terror? Is Pakistan a simple ‘franchisee’ or are we developing our own long-term interests in this war? The strategy to hit out at selected al Qaeda targets unfolded in early 2007 when our government offered facilities for launching drones remotely controlled by joystick operators in distant lands. The decision to kill was left in the hands of ‘informers’ on the ground who planted homing devices near houses that needed to be bombed. A menacing ‘whistle’ precedes the actual impact, many running for cover not knowing ‘for whom the bell tolls’, leaving many unintentionally dead and others maimed for life. So-called ‘collateral damage’, has been a sterile term. Women and children wailing and shrieking, mourners lifting their dead. The psychological impact has swung any remnant of anti-al Qaeda sentiment into anti-military and anti-US anger.
‘Pakistan Body Count’ – an initiative by a Pakistani graduate of Florida Tech – has documented suicide and drone casualties in Pakistan since 2004. Over 258 suicide attacks have left 3,832 dead and 9,562 injured, which comes out to an astonishing 51 innocent Pakistanis killed or maimed per attack. The death toll of drone attacks is equally worrisome. In the 142 reported drone attacks only 39 al Qaeda activists were killed as opposed to 1,651 innocent people. A kill ratio of 2.12 per cent is not high collateral damage but wanton murder. Brookings Institution has called the attacks “horrendously indiscriminate in nature”. They violate not only our sovereignty but Article 2(4) of the UN Charter, the Geneva Conventions and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. The latter prohibits extrajudicial executions stating that “every individual has the inherent right to life and no one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his life.” Article 6(2) stipulates that the penalty of death can only be decided by a competent court of law. One must question who is the judge, jury and executioner in this war of terror.
History reminds us of the Northern Ireland conflict which saw indiscriminate killings by terrorists, but the British government kept bringing the murderous gangs to the negotiating table until finally a selective truce was achieved. But recall the Lal Masjid episode. More and more evidence is piling up that many suicide bombers stemmed from that single incident. Had the logic of ‘control of terror by more terror’ been worth anything the initial ‘shock and awe’ would have been enough.
No matter how inhumane these new breed of terrorists are, why have we totally shunned dialogue? A strong military presence with very limited and precise strikes alongside attempts for dialogue may lead to solutions. We are digging our own grave on the behest of the US by involving our army to do their dirty work. Let not the ‘bell toll for thee’.
Comments
223 responses to “Op-ed: For whom the drone tolls”
our government offered facilities for launching drones remotely controlled by joystick operators in distant lands.
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Not any more: WASHINGTON: US Special Operations Forces have begun venturing out with Pakistani troops in the areas that have so far been restricted to them, the American media reported on Wednesday. The goal of the mission is to aid local forces and determine the security risks, the Wall Street Journal reported. US troops reportedly wear civilian clothes and are allowed to use their weapons only if they are attacked. US personnel venture out in Fata: WSJ Thursday, 22 Jul, 2010 http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-…
Here is the original story: U.S. forces step up role in Pakistan Special Operations teams begin venturing out on aid missions with Pakistani troops, but keep a low profile By JULIAN E. BARNES ASIA NEWSJULY 22, 2010 Printed in The Wall Street Journal Asia, page 8 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB30001424052748704…
WASHINGTON—U.S. Special Operations Forces have begun venturing out with Pakistani forces on aid projects, deepening the American role in the effort to defeat Islamist militants in Pakistani territory that has been off limits to U.S. ground troops. The expansion of U.S. cooperation is significant given Pakistan's deep aversion to allowing foreign military forces on its territory. The Special Operations teams join the aid missions only when commanders determine there is relatively little security risk, a senior U.S. military official said, in an effort to avoid direct engagement that would call attention to U.S. participation. The U.S. troops are allowed to defend themselves and return fire if attacked. But the official emphasized the joint missions aren't supposed to be combat operations, and the Americans often participate in civilian garb.
Once Alama Iqbal said in his Persian Poetry, i am not good at quoting Persian poetry so, that means something like "they have sell the country… alas they sell it on a very chap rate"
alas they sell it on a very chap rate”
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Correct: Read the names in the Research: The civilians of West Pakistan in general had the same thinking. Bhutto had claimed that the bastions of power of Pakistan were Punjab and Sindh. The civil service held the general idea that, "a taste of the 'danda' the big stick would cow down the Bengali babu". (37) The civilian bureaucrats serving the regime, like Information Secretary Roedad Khan were advising the generals about 'putting some fear of God in Bengalis and how to purify Bengali race and culture by Arabising the Bengali script. (38) The ruling elite was totally lost and the events were moving too fast for any of them to fully comprehend, let alone respond in any meaningful way. The rulers were now really suffering from delusions, unable to see beyond their boots. When Bengali soldiers, police officials, diplomats and airline pilots were defecting en masse, the members of the regime were re-assuring the Pakistani envoys (Secretary of National Security Council Major General Ghulam Omar, Information Secretary Roedad Khan and Foreign Secretary Sultan Muhammad met with Pakistani envoys in Tehran and Geneva) that everything was under control and that majority of Bengalis were with Pakistan. (39) This was being told when they could not get a single Bengali to work at Dacca radio station and in an ironic twist, Pakistani representative (Abu Saeed Chowdhry) attending a human right conference at Geneva had defected. They really thought that the world was blind. This general thought process was not limited to only senior level but was prevalent among junior officers and rank and file. WHY BANGLADESH WAS CREATED Dec 18, 2008 Thu 12:16 am http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/70192/47736
alas they sell it on a very chap rate”
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Now! Is this the way you run a Federation? Yahya's intelligence Chief, Major General Akbar Khan stated that, 'we will not hand over power to these bastards'. This is the historical context of the events up to independence in 1947, which is very important in understanding of the events, which plagued the country later.Second Class Citizens of the New Nation'Your music is so sweet. I wish to God, you Bengalis were half as sweet yourself'. Pakistani President Field Marshal Ayub Khan to his Bengali friend.After independence, several factors contributed to the gradual widening of gulf between the two wings. The fundamental factor was the difficulty of West Pakistani elite to accept Bengalis as equal partners. WHY BANGLADESH WAS CREATED Demons of December Road from East Pakistan to Bangladesh Hamid Hussain An intellectually honest Pakistani -American author http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/70192/47736
The aftermath of Pakistan and its chequered political history proves many contradictions .
The exercise by the West Pakistani feudal military and civil service dominated by Punjabis and some UPites to reduce the majority Bengalis to parity at gun point using threats of dissolution finally succeeded in 1956 constitution when Bengalis actually in majority were forced to agree to 50 % vote. The creation of One Unit thus destroying the very idea of provincial autonomy and spearheaded by West Pakistani civil and military bureaucrats was imposed in 1954-55 and Balochistan,Sindh and NWFP reduced to political chattels. The military actions in Balochistan in 1948,1958,1959-66,1973-76 is no feather in Pakistans cap. The military recruitment policy eliminating Sindh,Balochistan and East Bengal from the eligible material was again ethnically biased. Mr Jinnah did pioneer Bengali recruitment but his ideas were garbaged by Ayub Khan and Ghulam Mohammad. The Idea of Pakistan-Myth and Reality Agha H Amin http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/78310/47736
The name of Pakistan is "Islamic republic of Pakistan" but the present govt under the command of Zardari has changed the status of Pakistan in to a small state of America.America has paid the price of Pakistan to Zardari and he is following the orders of USA.They are paying him his price & imposing their all policies & orders duly signed by Zardari.In this dirty deal Zardari also included Shareef,Moulana, Altaf Hussain and shut their mouths with their demands.
Sincere Pakistani says: July 22, 2010 at 9:03 pm The name of Pakistan is “Islamic republic of Pakistan” but the present govt.
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You are correct but a minor correction is to be made that it was started in 1950: Reference: US Vice President Joe Biden & 'Non Functioning' Democarcy in Pakistan – 1
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/02/us-vice-…
Sincere Pakistani says: July 22, 2010 at 9:03 pm The name of Pakistan is “Islamic republic of Pakistan” but the present govt.
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You are correct but a minor correction is to be made that it was started in 1950: Reference: [Read the declassified documents by clicking the links] Jinnah – Liaquat Relations.
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/jinnah-l…
Sincere Pakistani says: July 22, 2010 at 9:03 pm The name of Pakistan is “Islamic republic of Pakistan” but the present govt.
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You are correct but a minor correction is to be made that it was started right after 1947: Pakistan's Chief of the Army Staff: General Sir Frank Messervy August 15, 1947 – February 10, 1948, General Sir Douglas Gracey February 11, 1948 – January 16, 1951
First correct your information. PAK real/actual/factual/original name is REPUBLIC of PAKISTAN and not any ISLAMIC republic etc. The ARMY along with the mullahz hijacked it to suit their needs and to justify their rule incorporated RELIGION into every domain of national character and thus the later on slogans that we hear i.e PAK ka matlab kia, ISLAM ka QILA and that habit of distributing "shahadat certificates" to military-killed jawanz while all others including police are in "killed" category. WTF
As for ZARDARI, i think he deserves applaud for fooling all around. Kindly curse the architects of this setup i.e USA-UK-SAUDIA along with PAK GENERALs and PPP leadership then.
MB says:July 26, 2010 at 8:25 pm First correct your information. PAK real/actual/factual/original name is REPUBLIC of PAKISTAN and not any ISLAMIC republic etc. The ARMY along with the mullahz hijacked it to suit their needs and to justify their rule incorporated RELIGION Kindly curse the architects of this setup i.e USA-UK-SAUDIA along with PAK GENERALs and PPP leadership then.
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Correct to the hilt:
History of Pakistan's name after Pakistan came into being:)
The fact is that this oft quoted statement is an election slogan coined by a Sialkot poet – Asghar Saudai. But it was never raised by the platform of the Muslim League. First and the last meeting of All Pakistan Muslim League was held under the chairmanship of the Quaid-i-Azam at Karachi's Khaliqdina Hall. During the meeting a man, who called himself Bihari, put to the Quaid that "we have been telling the people Pakistan ka matlab kia, La Ilaha Illallah." "Sit down, sit down," the Quaid shouted back. "Neither I nor my working committee, nor the council of the All India Muslim League has ever passed such a resolution wherein I was committed to the people of Pakistan, Pakistan ka matlab….., you might have done so to catch a few votes." This incident is quoted from Daghon ki Barat written by Malik Ghulam Nabi, who was a member of the Muslim League Council. The same incident is also quoted by the Raja of Mehmoudabad. [Ahmad Bashir, Islam, Shariat and the Holy Ghost, Frontier Post, Peshawar, 9.5.1991]
In the last fifty-three years this country has changed its name and status three times. It started life as a Dominion, which it remained until 1956, when under the constitution promulgated that year, it became the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. In 1962, Field Marshal Ayub Khan, who had abrogated the 1956 constitution when he took over the country in 1958, promulgated his constitution and declared it to be simply the Republic of Pakistan. Then he became a politician, expediency came to the fore and by his First Constitutional Amendment Order of 1963 we again became the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
Excellent write-up. One wonders why can’t they deal with Taliban the way they dealt with Northern Ireland? Disputes have to be settled politically, not militarily. Richard Armitage said that they will send us back to the Stone Age but the situation nowadays is not all that different from the medieval colonialism at least in Afghanistan and our tribal areas. The wounds will eventually heal but the scars will remain forever.
Pakistan PM gives army chief three-year extension (AFP) – 46 minutes ago ISLAMABAD — Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on Thursday gave powerful army chief General Ashfaq Kayani a three-year extension in the top job. http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeq…
[One wonders why can’t they deal with Taliban the way they dealt with Northern Ireland?]
Because PAK is playing double with USA. Taking aid from one side and killing PAK taliban while supporting AFGHANISTAN TALIBAN at other end.
Looks like USA will have to go all out itself inside PAK to kill the cancer from spreading all over the world.
MB says: July 26, 2010 at 8:29 pm Because PAK is playing double with USA.
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Some Hard Facts which we don't accept
Gen. Hamid Gul is made head of Pakistan’s ISI. [YOUSAF AND ADKIN, 1992, PP. 91-92] General Gul is a favorite of CIA Station Chief Milt Bearden and US ambassador to Pakistan Arnie Raphel, who view him as an ally and a potential national leader of Pakistan. [BEARDEN AND RISEN, 2003, PP. 301] Lt. General Retd. Hamid Gul who wind up the investigations of General Zia's Plane Crash -Read, Who Killed Zia below]. REFERENCE: Major General [R] Mahmud Ali Durrani and Security Breach http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/01/major-ge…
MB says: – July 26, 2010 at 8:29 pm Because PAK is playing double with USA. Taking aid from one side and killing PAK taliban while supporting AFGHANISTAN TALIBAN at other end.
Looks like USA will have to go all out itself inside PAK to kill the cancer from spreading all over the world.
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Brother MB,
Taliban had visited USA in late 90s:))
US ambassador to Pakistan Arnie Raphel: Mr. Raphel married his third wife, the former Nancy Ely, who had worked in the State Department's legal affairs office, shortly before leaving for Pakistan. His second wife, Robin Raphel, is a Foreign Service officer stationed in Pretoria, South Africa. Arnold L. Raphel: An Envoy of Deep Commitment By DAVID BINDER, Special to the New York Times Published: August 18, 1988
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/08/18/world/arnold-l-…
Robin Raphel used used to "negotiate" with the Talibans between 1996 to 911. [Her husband died with Zia]
MB says: – July 26, 2010 at 8:29 pm Because PAK is playing double with USA. Taking aid from one side and killing PAK taliban while supporting AFGHANISTAN TALIBAN at other end. Looks like USA will have to go all out itself inside PAK to kill the cancer from spreading all over the world.
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Now Shocks:
Robin Raphel: That support, the intelligence officials said, apart from ammunition and fuel, included the deployment at crucial junctures of Pakistani military advisers. The advisers were easy to hide, since they were almost all ethnic Pashtuns, from the same tribe that make up an overwhelming majority of the Taliban. Gaining Support To U.S. Diplomats A Rosy Picture American officials like Robin Raphel, the top State Department official dealing directly with matters involving Afghanistan, have placed heavy emphasis on the hope that contacts with the new rulers in Kabul will encourage them to soften their policies, especially toward women. They also say that the United States sees the Taliban, with its Islamic conservatism, as the best, and perhaps the only, chance that Afghanistan will halt the poppy growing and opium production that have made Afghanistan, with an estimated 2,500 tons of raw opium a year, the world’s biggest single-country source of the narcotic.
Two days later, Karl Inderfurth went to Islamabad to meet Pakistan’s new leader, General Pervez Musharraf. He also met two senior Taliban representatives and demanded: “Give us Bin Laden”. In return, he offered to regularise relations between Kabul and the world. Although Washington denied it, the Taliban, internationally condemned for policies towards women, attitudes to human rights and protection of Bin Laden, were still in talks with the US. On 27 November the Taliban deputy minister of foreign affairs, Abdur Rahman Zahid, gave a lecture at the Washington Middle East Institute, calling for political recognition of the Taliban regime and intimating that the Bin Laden affair could then be settled (10). Ronald Reagan, Afghan Mujahideen, Talibans & Royal Mess. http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/03/ronald-r…
MB says: – July 26, 2010 at 8:29 pm Because PAK is playing double with USA. Taking aid from one side and killing PAK taliban while supporting AFGHANISTAN TALIBAN at other end. Looks like USA will have to go all out itself inside PAK to kill the cancer from spreading all over the world.
====================
On page 503 in Charlie Wilson’s War, the author quoted “but it was losing Zia that crushed Charlie. At the state funeral in Islamabad, with a million Pakistanis and Mujahideen crowding up to him, Charlie made his way to Akhtar’s successor, Hamid Gul, and broke into tears. “I have lost my father on this day,” he said.
YOUSAF is Brigadier Yousuf mentioned in post number 4.3] , Formerly the Afghan Cell Incharge and regular visitor of "Farm" in Langley, Virginia US of A [Ref: Charlie Wilson War] and then he joined "Millat Party" of Farooq Laghari, and then supported Musharraf and then joined "Ex Servicemen Society"
Senior of Brigadier Imtiaz i.e. Brigadier I A Tirmidhi [also served in ISI] had revealed in his book "Profile of Intelligence" (published in 90s) that Gen Hamid Gul, Brig. Imtiaz and Maj. Aamir were all demented and involved in Corruption i.e. using Afghan Pipeline. Above all that Sitara Basalat which was given to Imtiaz was given on Sifarish.
As the pipeline was expanded it began to spring big leaks. Problems with the pipeline had existed from the beginning, but by 1985 they were becoming more obvious. Twenty nine of the forty Oerlikon anti aircraft guns the CIA had purchased in Switzerland at over $1 million a piece never made it to Afghanistan. Somewhere along the line these and many other weapons were put to other uses by either the Afghans, the Pakistanis, or the CIA itself. A significant amount of the leaking was (as it stiff is) coming from within Pakistan, where corrupt government and rebel officials have suddenly become quite rich. Pakistani General Akhtar Abdul Rahman, head of the ISID up to 1987, and his successor, General Hamid Gul, are suspected to have been prime benefactors of the pipeline. They and their subordinates within the ISID's National Logistics Cell (NLC) could easily have made a fortune off CIA supplies.
The Afghan Pipeline By Steve Galster. – 2
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/afghan-p…
Why doesn't Teeth Maestro write an oped about suicide attacks by Pakistani extremist? What law do they follow? Does Geneva convention and U.N law only apply to drones and the army, or are they for everybody. It is this apologetic attitude towards extremist that has lead to creating these …. Anyways TM has a right to write what they think is right.
Zardari & Gillani has saved their seats by giving 3 years extension to Gen Kyani. Now the story of 3idiots completed.
Only one hurdle is left for Zardari and that is CJ Suprem Court, let's see how he solve this hurdle ?
Sincere Pakistani says: – July 23, 2010 at 5:32 am Zardari & Gillani has saved their seats by giving 3 years extension to Gen Kyani.Only one hurdle is left for Zardari and that is CJ Suprem Court, let’s see how he solve this hurdle ?
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Why the extension is given? It is clear in WSJ Story above [visit of Holbrook and Hillary] and about CJ: Keep in mind that USA is a party in many cases of Missing person and Judges don't meet with a rep of one of the party [believe me CJ is not so powerful] Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry met visiting US envoy Richard Holbrooke in the Supreme Court building on FridayBy Matiullah Jan Saturday, 06 Jun, 2009 05:29 AM PST http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-…
Sincere Pakistani says: – July 23, 2010 at 5:32 am that is CJ Suprem Court, let’s see how he solve this hurdle ?
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Problem is already saved long ago during the CJ visit to the USA: CJ Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry and USA http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/12/cj-iftik…
Zardari is nothing, Kayani is nothing, CJ is nothing and extension was for this: WASHINGTON: The US Treasury Department on Thursday placed the Haqqani network among the groups promoting terrorism and froze the assets of its emissary Nasiruddin Haqqani along with those of two other Taliban leaders. US acts against Haqqani network By Anwar Iqbal
Friday, 23 Jul, 2010 http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-…
Q: For whom the drone tolls.
A: Pakistani democratic govt gives not one, two but confirm 3 year extension to COAS pervaiz kiyani.
so the blue boy of US and most coward general after Musharraf is now inflicting the wounds of victims of war on terror and missing people for 3 more years.
Kamran shafi an obsessed army officer was advising to Kiyani in his latest column like that.
My advice to Gen Kayani would be to issue his last Order of the Day on the appointed date of his retirement, receive his successor in GHQ, and after a cup of tea get into his private car and fade away like many great generals before him. In the time that he has as COAS, might I suggest he announce the scrapping of the completely needless and wasteful new GHQ in Islamabad and the return of the land to the Pakistani government for auctioning it to the highest bidder and using the proceeds to provide potable water to the populace at large.
So to whom he was advising like that.
That greedy and coward general was not in mood of a year or two but more and satisfied when 3 years were sanctioned.
Is he ignorant that our generals left their office after having a cup of tea.
Their throw way charges on the name of retirment cost billions rupees to national exchequer in the form of cash, property and retirement facilities, including,medical, transport and three servants till death.
Who would die soon after such mojaan hee mojjan after retirement but common people are dying from whose accounts that money is snatched.
Nobody knows retiring perks of COAS but I am sure it is more than the chief of UK and US.
Such kind of extensions in institute like army where white elephants like him are already in long queue of promotions , are clear indicators of unprofessional and incompetent attitude of higher management of army.
If we would have any serious political govt He could have been fired on the only basis as under his command he couldnt produce a single officer who can run the war strategies within Pakistan.
Pakistan is really a unique country where people get rewards and promotions on the basis of killing its own people destroying govt revenues for personal uses and giving favor to incompetent people who are known as near circle to them.
Kiyani is one of example like that.
Welcome killer king kong kiyani(K4) to rule and kill his people for three more years.
I am still unable to understand that what kind of Qadiayana saliahiat he has for which he is allotting such financial burden to poor Pakistan.
Army is in longest time period of war under his command with high killing rate for civilians.
As creator of NRO and protector of NRO clowns.
On those achivements he can get such piece of cake.
Nazia says: July 23, 2010 at 12:55 pm Q: For whom the drone tolls. A: Pakistani democratic govt gives not one, two but confirm 3 year extension to COAS pervaiz kiyani.
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Musharraf recalls in his memoir, “In the Line of Fire.” Within months Kiyani had unraveled the two plots and arrested most of the participants. He was rewarded in 2004 with a promotion to chief of ISI, and the next year his agency scored big with the arrest of Abu Faraj al-Libbi, the senior Qaeda lieutenant who masterminded the attempts on Musharraf’s life. A former U.S. intelligence official who dealt personally with Kiyani says the ISI “took a lot of bad guys down” under his leadership. Kiyani has earned his boss’s confidence, even serving as Musharraf’s personal envoy in recent talks with exiled opposition leader Benazir Bhutto. A former U.S. intelligence official who dealt personally with Kiyani says the ISI “took a lot of bad guys down” under his leadership. Kiyani has earned his boss’s confidence, even serving as Musharraf’s personal envoy in recent talks with exiled opposition leader Benazir Bhutto. REFERENCE: The Next Musharraf A Westernized, chain-smoking spy could soon become the most powerful man in Pakistan. By Ron Moreau and Zahid Hussain NEWSWEEK From the magazine issue dated Oct 8, 2007 http://www.newsweek.com/id/41883
Mughal
you know very well that on what basis ACRs is filled with such false rhetoric comments.
I am very sorry to say that even 80% sitara jarat holders are awarded on such false inputs as you are providing.
Extensions and prisons
By Kamran Shafi
Tuesday, 20 Jul, 2010
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-…
He is giving idea like that.
Organizations such as the Fauji Foundation and the Army Welfare Trust, and the factories and banks and cement and real estate and travel businesses they run should immediately be auctioned to the highest bidder and the money realised put into a welfare fund for soldiers, junior commissioned officers and officers at the ratio of 85:10:5. He will then go down as a great COAS who corrected grave wrongs, and a good general who trained up his successor like other successful generals before him.
Mr shafi
where you are living in fools world.
It is lucrative post retirement package of retired and incompetent officers where generals first creating havoc and harassment in Pakistan come and enjoy his free time.
During his stay in any any above mentioned offices he fills all necessary an unnecessary seats with his coarse mates and friends and all run these institute here all technical personals are bullied by these non technical and incompetent army men whom are detached by army circle as army dont need them any more.
Musharf with all his curses is a designer of such trends that he nominated most corrupt generals as MD, aMD, Chair person, or executives of such companies and no audit is allowed on their expenses and pay packages.
Now kiynai is carrying the candle of this legacy .His large numbers of nearest friends are running these fauji companies with full scale of corruption along with their live dirty scandals of women and wine .
So to whom shafi was advising like that to sell their luxurious reserves which are providing food to carnivorous nature of these officers,even they are released from their own institute.
One thing more if on his irrelevant advice,it is given importance then where the large superseded bulk of army offciers would go to work at the age of 38 to 45.
Get the data, these officers coming from army setup like raindrops, hardly capable of joining private ventures within Pakistan.
No foreign company is either interested of hiring these superseded officers who are solely trained under our miltiary academy.The few favorable places for them under pressure from higher miltiary authority are positions like of security and admin .
There are least migration of number of army officers to foreign land as capable human beings as they cant even touch the professional level of outside world other then their fauji setup.
So brig shafi you must know that all are not so lucky and capable to get job in Dawn like private company, so you should know well the exact reason behind these giant ventures.
One would caution General Kayani against opting for any role for himself other than that of the army chief. His is a full-time job and so much needs to be done to restore the fighting edge to the military and the morale of the soldiers. Known as a ‘thinking’ man, one hopes that he’ll not be tempted by talk of power troikas for the consequences of choosing such a path are disastrous. REFERENCE: Reading the subtext March 08, 2008 Saturday Safar 29, 1429 [Dawn]
Mr Mughal.
Some thing wrong is with this web site .
Your name ,email id and your web site is in front of me.
Now the Miss Bi jamalo will think that you wrote this .
She have knowledge of every thing on earth and love to fight every one who come in front of her .
Najany ghar walon ka kiya hasher hota hoga.
HaHa ,Kash aik Gudoo bander lahore main bhi hota.
OH you are remembering me with good names .
So I am here to reply you for what???
If you have an id of mughal then it is either mughal or your problem not mine.
If you think I have knowledge of all then what can I say on this delusional l taunt.Really I even can not read your email or ip as nothing is happening like that in my side.
To whom I am fighting?? oh I think you are angry that why I am opening my tongue against your favorite COAS.
This is not pattern of fight in my style but a way of expression what I see in my surroundings.
You cant imagine my way of fight but one tip I can give you that best way of fight with your real opponents is to always remain silent in front of those who try to humiliate you in different ways.
In Punjabi culture discussion,chats in loud tones and aggressive talkshawks are symbol of friendship and communication among people and silence is considered as an indicator of grudges between two.
We dont believe in phelay app pehlay app like terminologies so you people cant understand our way of talking ok so dont waste your time on reading my comments.
Aamir Mughal says: – July 24, 2010 at 9:00 pm Mr Mughal.
Some thing wrong is with this web site . Your name ,email id and your web site is in front of me.
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Dear Awab Sahab,
THIS IS REAL ME. FARM AT VIRGINIA IS AT IT AGAIN. LOL:))))
Mughal
What is this farm the Virgina?
he/she is talking to you and attacking on me.
Is she your ex lover who is not liking my simple discussion with you.
Any how you are lucky who even get moral support in this hostile net world.
Nazia says: – July 26, 2010 at 12:08 am Mughal What is this farm the Virgina?
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Dear Ms. Nazia,
Farm in Virginia means Training Cam/Academy of US Central Intelligence which is in Virginia.
Nazia: Is she your ex lover who is not liking my simple discussion with you. Any how you are lucky who even get moral support in this hostile net world.
MAM: LOL:) I don't believe in Love rather I believe in Free Love.
Mughal
So I am right your intelligence admirers dont like me and even mynaive interference in your professional comments.
But if I am not wrong this is not from Virgina but from local farms where desi bugs are keeping eye on you and your report writings .
By the way I tell you for you common knowledge( which I feel is quite absent in your life) that love cant be free as it is feeling of serious commitment and boundedness which always tend to fix you toward some unchangeable focal point.I think you are confusing it with you flirtatious deflections or temporary joviality for passing good time.
Seeing your intellectual hypocrisy as a learner of Islamic teaching I fully hope this rocket science will be understandable to you when you would be near to death bed.
So it is your fluctuation toward your supporter/lover but you can not deny the sincerity of this virgin bug that miss no chance of cursing me in your favour.
You can feel intensity/power of his/ her emotions that same ID and name is coming in front of him/her for attacking me
by proving this phrase true.
ranjah ranjha kurdee nee may apay ranjha hoi.
now you can replace this "ranjha" word for you or your admirer.
well written article
Very well written article and I agree with you hundred percent .
The PROBLEM is USA has started something and doesnot know how to finish it.
What is a safe exit or how to save face and Pakistan does not know how to provide this face saving to them?
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Democracy and freedom cannot be taught to a Nation in a day neither Nations can be Amercanised by making them wear jeans and drink cola.
They have even failed in doing that to AFGHANIS.
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There will be no peace in the region until USA is out of here.It is not our war .
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Anyway it is the ONLY WAR WHERE EVERY ONE IS DEYING AND NOBODY KNOWS WHY?
farrahshah says: July 23, 2010 at 8:51 pm There will be no peace in the region until USA is out of here.
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Yes that is the only solution for long lasting peace.
I doubt that. The only way this ends if there is shariat in Pakistan. Either we can do it ourselves or the taliban will force it on us.
Unfortunately (for most Pakistanis) the Quran is absolutely explicit about ruling by the Sharia (e.g. The whole first part of Surah Maidah). This is accepted by all sunni schools of thought and also the shia. It seems the arabs have taught the pathans this lesson which they were not aware of previously. This has made them even more determined to bring the sharia.
And now they are hell bent on imposing the sharia. If you kill them all, a new generation will grow which will do it. This is never ending.
Kayani needs a lifetime extension with aabe hayat to finish this war.
Dubai Chalo says: – July 23, 2010 at 11:20 pm I doubt that. The only way this ends if there is shariat in Pakistan. Either we can do it ourselves or the taliban will force it on us.
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Which version? Overwhelming Pakistanis are Barelvis and Talibans are Deobnadis and we all know how Deobandi and Barelvi love each other.
Dubai Chalo says: July 23, 2010 at 11:20 pmIt seems the arabs have taught the pathans this lesson which they were not aware of previously. This has made them even more determined to bring the sharia.
================
Arabs themselves need a thorough thrashing particularly the Aal-e-Saud: Corrupt, Vile & Filthy: Arabs, Aal-e-Saud, & Wahhaabis. http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/06/corrupt-…
Kayani needs a lifetime extension with aabe hayat to finish this war.
Kiyani in past needed few years and dollar fund to promote talibanistaions in the region so now army is looking for aabe hayat for him.
Why not they made request to US laboratories to make clone of kiyani which would be placed after his 3 year extended tenure.
This should be tagged as scientific technical aid to Pakistan army in coming years.
our government offered facilities for launching drones remotely controlled by joystick operators in distant lands.
==================
Senators seek withdrawal of US forces from Pakistan
Saturday, 24 Jul, 2010 http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-…
WASHINGTON: Two US lawmakers – a Republican and a Democrat – proposed a bill this week demanding the withdrawal of all US troops in Pakistan, where they are conducting covert operations against militants. “We have known that US forces have been operating in secret inside the territories of Pakistan without congressional approval,” Democratic Representative Dennis Kucinich said on Friday, pointing to reports the United States was stepping up its presence there.
our government offered facilities for launching drones remotely controlled by joystick operators in distant lands.
===================
جنیوا میں اقوام متحدہ کے اجلاس میں پروفیسر فلپ آلسٹن نے ہدف بنا کر یا نشانہ بنا کر بالخصوص ڈرون حملے اور ان سے ہوئی ہلاکتوں میں بیشتر کو ماورائے عدالت اور غیر قانونی ہلاکتیں قرار دیا ہے۔
’ڈرون حملوں کا قانونی جواز کوئی نہیں‘
آخری وقت اشاعت: جمعرات 22 جولائ 2010 , 14:27 GMT 19:27 PST
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2010/07/100719…
our government offered facilities for launching drones remotely controlled by joystick operators in distant lands.
Mughal
You know our govt is also remotely controlled by joysitck in the hands of CIA and pentagon people sitting in distant lands
.
So this double acted remote control is in hands of Obama and his team.Those who claim to be unaware of covert mission of US illegitimate soldiers in Pakistan are professional liars.
Ignorance is really bliss for US law makers.
They all got visa via Pakistan embassy in Washington. As soon any individual apply for Pakistani visa from US soil,They have store all the data of these visa recipients who are coming like fuel downpour in our burning country for last 5 years.
NAZIA!!!!!!!
It is not only KAYANI but also ZARDARI needs life time extension to rule in Pakistan.
Military and political specialists are giving lot of justification of Kiyanis extensions as now he has got the status of rising sun in Pakistan which cant be set at least for more 3 years.
But the people who are seeing the relaxed and corrupt way of working and living set up OF Kiyani and his nearest friends know well that it is all America behind such kind of move.
Kiyani accepted all US Orders in the form of allowing drone attacks on Pakistani people, facilitating huge miltiary deals with US , and fully permitted notorious security companies like black water and dyne corps in important areas of Pakistan to establish their setup for some secret and hidden agendas.
He was COAS under whose command Paksitani army displaced (largest number in history)3.5 million IDPs from swat and executed the most aggressive combat on its own land.
He was same COAS who was sitting in GHQ when it was intruded by few terrorists and they kept all Pakistan busy of seeing helplessness of GHQ for 22 hrs siege.
Another feather in his cap is as an ISI chief and COAS he couldnt find the traces who were behind 400 blasts only done in city of GHQ for last 5 years.
So he is fully qualified for this extensions.
If sooner he would be awarded medal of honour by US president then it shouldn't be surprise for us.
US management has taken few hours to remove his extremely professional general who was planning and leading the US forces to kandhar attack in coming days but our generals are always in her good books no matter what is their real performance.
Advance Apology
All allegations on Kiyani are real but no one dare to say and accept and this is the reason of our down fall as nation that we speak lies to our souls.so sorry if intelligence men get hurt on compiling like that.
They are not getting life time extension only from their masters but license to kill is being awarded to them by a super power which is popular for his democratic setup and civilians right.
In life time extensions usually life of Pakistani political icons are only extended as long as they abide US polcies, naheen tu target killing in RWP is only best choice for them.
Oh yes army generals all time secure their souls and next generations who play the role of collaborators through such agreements.
This will help: This will help to understand Mullen and you wouldn't have to read the article, picture would be enough: Islamic militancy is a foreign policy tool of the US and Pakistani establishments By Yousuf Nazar Wednesday, December 24th, 2008 at 9:12 am Admiral Mike Mullen (first from left), the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, Pakistani Army Chief Gen. Pervez Kayani (third from the left) and next to him, the ISI Chief Ahmed Shuja Pasha (then Major. Gen. and Director General Military Operations) aboard the US naval carrier Abraham Lincoln in Indian Ocean; in a secret meeting on August 26, 2008. Pasha was promoted to the rank of Lt. Gen. and appointed as the head of the Inter-Services Intelligence on Sept. 29, 2008. http://www.yousufnazar.com/?p=777
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2009/05/090501…
I am tired of blackmailing by our peer kallan. Not the other party is full of saints but this guys now wants IG who would go with MQM killers to give them cover while they kill.
No Army will not do an operation in Karachi as they will not be paid for their pimping services in Karachi.
Mughal
In this photo the body language of kiyani itself tells us what is his real status in front of US officials.
but interesting thing I tell you that show this picture to any serving army officer and he would laugh on your observation.
Musharraf and kiyani continued policy of superiority which was once adopted by British in which they allowed corrupt minority to rule the deprived majority through power of gun and with perception of superiority complex as elite group of Pakistan.
Today a serving major is getting such privileges which are not in dreams of senior professor or 17 grade doctor serving in govt hospitals.
So I dont know when the turning point comes in the life of military man when he starts thinking of vested interest of other countries while wearing Pakistani uniform but this is only trend which is dominate in our senior military men .
So in developing hate culture since last decade now our land of pure has been blended with insecurities of common people, hate culture for other sects and supremacy of ruling groups.Resultant of all is burning Pakistan .
PAKISTAN: National policy- Hate India?
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpapers32%5Cpa…
Nazia says: – July 25, 2010 at 4:02 pm Mughal In this photo the body language of kiyani itself tells us what is his real status in front of US officials.
===============
People often forget what US Role was during the Fall of Dhaka:Handwritten note from President Richard M. Nixon on an April 28, 1971, National Security Council decision paper: "To all hands. Don't squeeze Yahya at this time – RMN" http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB79/
Do watch the expression on the face of Yahya Khan: President Yahya Khan On East Pakistan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9cHUJBt2Sw&fe… [The absent minded didn't even know what was happening in the Former East Pakistan]
""The Soviet Foreign Minister, Gromyko, speaking in New Delhi on February 12, 1980 had warned that, "If Pakistan continues to serve as a puppet of imperialism in the future; it will jeopardize its existence and its integrity as an independent state." The United States, too, could in certain circumstances accept the dismemberment of Pakistan as it did in 1971. Henry Kissinger, the US Secretary of State during President Nixon's administration, Shaukat Aziz and 'Zionist' Paul Wolfowitz
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/11/shaukat-…
Dont blame people about their ignorance that what happened in East Pakistan .
People need sincere leaders who give them thoughts of conceivability through incidents and history .It was job of PPP under strong and popular leadership of Bhutto to bring the facts of this failure in front of people of Pakistan or at least kept the history record straight so that people at least know the reality.
But time and facts showed that Bhutto was in equation with these generals who picked him for political stunts in the public area which is all time weak area of these general.
All popular political leaders did same mistakes again and again that they made double and triple games with military men against public interests and time tells us that those were only characters of political leaders who were discarded by military by labeling them traitors.
It is not people of Pakistan but our political leadership who are suffering of amnesia for long time.
Read how much political cartoons are praising the 3 years forced extensions of Kiyani through the hands of politicians.This was the same institute which killed popular leadership of PPP and did all kind of worst treatment with them in past.
Now left over of politics is taking full revenge with people of Paksitan on the name of this pseudo democracy and concentrating the power nucleus toward militarism in Pakistan.
Nazia says: July 25, 2010 at 11:58 pm It was job of PPP under strong and popular leadership of Bhutto to bring the facts of this failure in front of people of Pakistan or at least kept the history record straight so that people at least know the reality. But time and facts showed that Bhutto was in equation with these generals who picked him for political stunts
=================
Dear Ms. Nazia,
Let me remove some of your misconception: Read what Bhutto did?
ڈھاکہ یونیورسٹی کے بعد شاید سندھ یونیورسٹی ہی تھی جنکے اساتذہ، طالب علم اور پروفییسر حکومتی اداروں کی ’فہرست، پر تھے- ڈاکٹر غلام علی الانا، پرفیسر ارجں، نندلال وریانی اور دیگر طالب علم رہنما گرفتار کیے گۓ- یہاں تک کہ سندھ یونیورسٹی کے وائس چانسلر سید غلام مصطفی شاہ کی بھی نقل و حرکت پر پابددی ڈال کر غیر اعلانیہ طور پر انہیں انکی سرکاری رہائش گاہ پر ایک طرح سے نظربند کیا گیا- آج کے سندھی شاعر اور صحافی انور پيرزادو کو بھی سزا ہوئی۔ وہ تب پاکستان فضائیہ میں پائیلٹ تھے اور ان کو ایک دوست کو خط میں بنگالیوں کے ساتھ ہونے والی ہولناک کارروائیوں کا ذکر کرنے پر کورٹ مارشل کی سزا سنائی گئی-
سندھی رہنما اور دانشور رسول بخش پلیجو نے بنگال پر پاکستانی فوج کشی کے خلاف بیرون ملک شائع اور نشر ہونےوالی رپورٹوں کو منتخب اور سندھی میں ترجمہ کرکے ’جیکی بنگال ساں تھیو‘ ( یعنی ’جو بنگال کے ساتھ ہوا‘) کے عنوان سے کتاب شائع کی جو پاکستان میں بنگلیوں کے قتل عام پر پہلی اور واحد دستاویز تھی جس پر بعد میں بھٹو حکومت کی طرف سے ان باقی جالیس کتابوں اور جریدوں کے ساتھ پابندی لگادی گئی-
سولہ دسمبر کا دن، اور کچھ یادیں
حسن مجتبیٰ
سان ڈیاگو، کیلی فورنیا
وقتِ اشاعت: Thursday, 16 December, 2004, 15:13 GMT 20:13 PST
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/miscellaneous/story/200…
Nazia says: July 25, 2010 at 11:58 pm Dont blame people about their ignorance that what happened in East Pakistan. People need sincere leaders who give them thoughts of conceivability through incidents and history .
=================
Even "Mr. Mohammad Ali Jinnah" mistreated Baluchistan – Rare Documents on INSTRUMENT OF ACCESSION OF KALAT STATE http://balochistaninhistory.blogspot.com/2008/10/…
Nazia says: July 25, 2010 at 11:58 pm It was job of PPP under strong and popular leadership of Bhutto to bring the facts of this failure in front of people of Pakistan or at least kept the history record straight so that people at least know the reality. But time and facts showed that Bhutto was in equation with these generals who picked him for political stunts
=================
Dear Ms. Nazia,
Let me remove some of your misconception: Watch what Bhutto said?
Achievement of Bhutto “The Senior” – Bhutto supported Military Operation [with political steps] in Former East Pakistan now Bangladesh. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu4MTv5wgys&fe…
For detailed text [Read Roedad Khan role] read post number 2.1
Nazia says: July 25, 2010 at 11:58 pm It was job of PPP under strong and popular leadership of Bhutto to bring the facts of this failure in front of people of Pakistan or at least kept the history record straight so that people at least know the reality. But time and facts showed that Bhutto was in equation with these generals who picked him for political stunts
=================
Dear Ms. Nazia,
Let me remove some of your misconception:
I just sometime wonder as to how Zulfikar Ali Bhutto would justify to appoint “General Tikka Khan” as his COAS of New Pakistan after Fall of Dhaka [Pakistan of Jinnah died with Jinnah in 1948] , Liaquat Ali Khan’s Pakistan died in 1971. Tikka Khan was Brigadier during late 50s Operation in Baluchistan and he earned name “Butcher of Baluchistan” alter he earned the Nick “Butcher of Bengal” after purifying the Bengali’s blood by intermingling West Pakistani Blood in the veins of Bengalis, if that was not enough Benazir Bhutto appointed Tikka a PPP Gen Secy????
Here is a glimpse: 1960 Sardar Nauroz Khan’s sons and other relatives were hanged despite the fact that it was sworn on the Quran by the no other than Tikka Khan. The people of Balochistan cannot forget that General Tikka Khancommanded the troops against Mir Nauroz Khan in 1958 and he also had been Bhutto’s Commander in Chief during the initial years of Balochistaninsurgency ( 1973 – 77). REF: FINAL PHASE OF MIR BEZANJO’S POLITICAL STRUGGLE(FEDERALISM V/s REGIONALISM)
BALOCH INSURGENCIES 1948-1977 http://balochistaninhistory.blogspot.com/2008/10/…
The next violent outbreak of Baloch sentiments came in 1958. This was the direct result of the centralising policies pursued by the Pakistani leaders. Fears of Bengali domination in the 1950s had propelled the Punjabi leaders, who controlled the levers of power, to consolidate the Western Wing of Pakistan into a unified province to counter Bengali numerical strength. This One Unit plan was resisted by the Baloch, both by Abdul Karim who had completed his prison term in 1955 and the Khan who mobilised wide spread demonstrations through tribal chieftains. Balochi nationalists within the Khanate took serious exception to the One Unit scheme and in a meeting with Pakistani president Iskander Mirza in October 1957 they urged Iskander Mirza to exempt Kalat from the One Unit scheme, and to allot more government spending on developmental activities in Kalat. But Ayub Khans ambitions changed the political matrix in Pakistan and when some Baloch sardars started non-cooperating with the Pakistani commissioner, under a flimsy pretext that the Khan had raised a parallel army to attack Pakistani military, Ayub ordered Pakistani army to march into Kalat on 6 October 1958, a day before he imposed martial rule in Pakistan. The army arrested the Khan and his followers and accused them of secretly negotiating with Afghanistan for a full-scale Baloch rebellion. The arrest touched off a chain reaction of violence and counter-violence with the government bombing villages suspected of harbouring guerrillas. Pakistan military’s campaigns in Danshera and Wad were resisted by the Jhalawan Sardars loyal to the Khan. The octogenarian Chief of the Zehri tribe in Jhalawan, Nauroz Khan put up a stiff resistance in the Mir Ghat mountains, but the Pakistani military swore an oath by the Quran and urged Nauroz to give up arms and prepare for negotiations. Nauroz surrendered in anticipation of safe conduct and amnesty but the army put Nauroz and his sons behind the bars as soon as they laid down their arms. Naurozs sons were hanged soon afterwards, in Hyderabad and Sukur, in July 1960. A shocked and surprised Nauroz died soon afterwards in Kohlu prison in 1962. Ayubs message to the Balochis of Kalat who were the first to challenge the might of the Pakistani state, was clear. He reportedly threatened the total extinction of Balochis if they did not mend their ways.
Here come Bhutto worshippers.
keep trolling Amir Mughal, can you change the history???
Jheenga Mughal says: July 26, 2010 at 9:27 am Here come Bhutto worshippers. keep trolling Amir Mughal, can you change the history???
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It was not basically a Bhutto Worship! Had you been attentive to the the statement of Bhutto above in Youtube.
Regards.
Look Mughal
we practical people dont need observations and writings of others but straight facts collected can be our real conclusive evidence to judge others.
Actions always have an edge to understand the performance and real character of speakers, no matter how excellent orator he/she is.
In 1971 events Bhutto was pure sindhi
General ayub, niazi, yahya all were ethnic pathans.
our Pashtuns have accupied the important senior army post of Chief of Staff since 1958 — Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan
—Mehtab Ali Shah
Few Pakistanis knew anything about Yahya Khan when he was vaulted into the presidency two years ago. The stocky, bushy-browed Pathan had been army chief of staff since 1966
—Time Magazine.
Ishaq khan and roadad khan(having pure pukhtoon background) who were strong pillars of bureaucracy at that time and alter on thoroughly helped Punjabi Zia to have dominance in bureaucratic deals via military way.
So I simply denied presence of Punjabi dominance in era of 1970 to 1980 era in ruling group as you are providing reference.
You are actually supporting my ideas that bhutto was in need of butchery actions of these selected geenral for controlling areas which were not accepting his dominance in all matters.
So if you think that I am still in state of misconception that what these facts are saying.
PPP govt most of the time come to rule after these generals created lot of havoc and unlawful situation in state matters.
-Bhutto after 1971 massacre
-benazir after spread of arms and drug culture via talibanisation process .
Zardari for supporting war and terror ideas in our soil through Pak and US army.
In all tenures PPP gave full supports to feudalistic characters and maintained its dominance as party of feudal lords.
In all tenures of PPP dominance they never dared to probe misconduct and illegitimacy of miltiary men.They even remain stick persistent to policy ,even not to go for conclusive inquiry of killing of PPP leadership so what else remain one should accept from them .
After each tenure of PPP, political people known to be more rich than previous regime by transferring their assets to foreign lands via corruption deals.
So to which points of misunderstanding you are referring me.
Nazia says: – July 26, 2010 at 11:03 am Look Mughal
we practical people dont need observations and writings of others but straight facts collected can be our real conclusive evidence to judge others.
===========
MAM: Go through the material again it was just observation but History supported by their own admission.
Nazia: Actions always have an edge to understand the performance and real character of speakers, no matter how excellent orator he/she is. In 1971 events Bhutto was pure sindhi General ayub, niazi, yahya all were ethnic pathans.
MAM: They were Sindhi and Pashtuns not the Nationalists [wrong about Yahya, he was not Pashtun but Persian and do read his biography, Ayub was not Pashto speaking but Hindko Speaking]
Nazia: So I simply denied presence of Punjabi dominance in era of 1970 to 1980 era in ruling group as you are providing reference.
MAM: By the way who was Tikka Khan and Bhutto's IB and ISI Chiefs???
Nazia: You are actually supporting my ideas that bhutto was in need of butchery actions of these selected geenral for controlling areas which were not accepting his dominance in all matters.
MAM: I am not supporting anybody's view just provided the Video [Historical one] which I haven't got earlier.
Nazia: -benazir after spread of arms and drug culture via talibanisation process.
MAM: Wrong Drugs and Weapon Culture was promoted by Zia. I can prove it through "Published" References "Books".
NAZIA: So to which points of misunderstanding you are referring me.
MAM: That I am "Blind Jiyala":)))
Mughal
there is no Punjabi factor invloved in our power politics since creation of Pakistan but such ethnic conflicts were highlighted by miltiary establishment to create turbulence among masses.
These army men are still unable to prove that they are real nationalist so why Pakistan military academy couldnt review its courses which cant scratch the word of caste and sect from the minds of its officers.
You know when any Syed or abbasi get high post in army and its setup , he only favors his course mate(hum niwala hum piyala of milk of lioness) or caste people to his department.That trend is more dominant than past which clearly shows the backwardness of these high ranking officers.
You know such conservative attitude is absent in private organizations where people gets their position as per their ability and expertise.
That is why one can see more national spirit in private sectors employees as compare to army set up and govt jobs.
All have no time to jump into deep history but we should fetch irrefutable facts from bitter but true history .It is that our main arteries of army and intelligence works are invloved in anti state activities and no one has courage to stop their way since the creation of Pakistan.
We are basically agriculture country and you know farmers are the most peace loving creatures of this world as they live closer to nature and God all the time.
So who turned this nature loving majority to beastly acts of terrorism .
Answer is our miltiary mullah alliance and feudal landlords.
Its good you are not real jiyala of PPP but actually are bonded lover of PPP and your party love is not allowing you have free love with other political ideas.
Nazia says: – July 27, 2010 at 11:42 pm Mughal there is no Punjabi factor invloved in our power politics since creation of Pakistan but such ethnic conflicts were highlighted by miltiary establishment to create turbulence among masses.
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I agree that there was no such thing on 14 Aug 1947 but courtesy Liaquat Ali Khan, Malik Ghulam Mohammad and General Ayub who founded this Curse of Ta'assub which reached at its peak till the Fall of Dhaka. I particularly hate this Curse. It is the most blind curse/calamity which hit Innocent By standers mostly.
Nazia says: – July 27, 2010 at 11:42 pm Mughal there is no Punjabi factor invloved in our power politics since creation of Pakistan but such ethnic conflicts were highlighted by miltiary establishment to create turbulence among masses.
================
Lest you declare me partial. From Sindh two politicians [Khan Bahadur Ayub Khoro and Pir Ali Mohammad Rashidi (Pir Pagara's unlce) helped Pakistani Establishment to Impose One Unit [the biggest cause of this present Ethnic Hate in the country] and enforce parity for not accepting East Pakistan a Majority Province and that was the day when the Process of Fall of Dhaka was started.
Nazia says: – July 27, 2010 at 11:42 pm Mughal there is no Punjabi factor invloved in our power politics since creation of Pakistan but such ethnic conflicts were highlighted by miltiary establishment to create turbulence among masses.
==================
Many people don't know that Punjabi Speaking community and quite a good numbers of Urdu Speaking Community from Bihar were living peacefully in Sindh before partition, Punjabis [from 1900] and Urdu Speaking [since 1930s] the air was polluted first by Liaquat Ali Khan and then during One Unit Day when General Tikka was Martial Law Administrator in Sindh. Rest of the credit goes to Mumtaz Bhutto and Raees Amrohvi and Jang Press of 1972.
Nazia says: – July 27, 2010 at 11:42 pm Mughal there is no Punjabi factor invloved in our power politics since creation of Pakistan but such ethnic conflicts were highlighted by miltiary establishment to create turbulence among masses.
===================
In my hometown i.e. Jacobabad, Awans, Niazi and Kashmiris are so mixed with local population [through marriages] that they even speak far better Sindhi than the Sindhi Speaking. Similarly in Jacobabad there are many families settled who are from UP and you couldn't recognize a trace of UP in their language. In Sanghar and Tharparkar, Punjabis have their own Chaks and Urdu Speaking Rajputs are so mingled with the local community that you wont be able to recognize and this Peace was destroyed by General Zia for the sake of politics.
My observation of mingling of different cast and sects on our grounds are same you are mentioning in your area.
This complex of superiority lies usually in feudalistic families .Some filthy corrupt people use this caste and ethnic color to confined their wealth and property in their range and history shows they are badly defeated by their next kins on this orthodox issues and some time their wrong notions appears in more worst form than their inherited complex in the form of illegitimate relations.
Recently I was hearing the interview of Dr A qkhan in some channel where that son of idiot was claiming that he was victimized as being a Sindhi.
Oh my God now you can know judge that what kind of people are projected to high ranks .as long as he is enjoying the state favor and perks they never think like that but when their corruption are highlighted, here comes the ethnic colors in their oratory skills.
That old pal is forgetting he is among the few officials who were specially allowed to have higher post in one of sensitive department of Pakistan even he had suspicious activities and foreign wife too which was not permitted at that time to officials of Pakistan.
One had to lose his /her job on important assignment for marrying to spouses of different nationality but he was among the few who was favored like that among very capable scientist.
Dr Abdul salam was one of our national jewel whom he and bhutto cornered at that time by using the tool of faith distortion .
I am still unable to under stand whom he was blaming as there was only Musharraf an urdu speaking who under USA orders removed him from the scene.
Pir pagaara all strength lies in illiteracy level of his area and by creating such differences his business of piri fiqiri is running there for last 100 years.
I heard and also read that his forefathers were hanged by British for not complying with British rule.But after seeing backwardness his area and his hypocritical life styles I am sure there are great lies hidden in such stories like that.
they were/are all time collaborators of rulers who want to control the masses through harassment and power of gun.
Nazia says: July 29, 2010 at 3:35 pm Recently I was hearing the interview of Dr A qkhan in some channel where that son of idiot was claiming that he was victimized as being a Sindhi.
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Actually he said this: I am Still Mohajir. Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wTrxRNmWdA&fe… Dr. Abdul Qadeer ( The Founder of Nuclear Programme In Pakistan ) admits that He hasn't given the status of "Son of the Soil" yet.
I somewhat disagree with the assertion. Drone technology has proved to be useful in hitting some big names of the terrorist outfit. Plus the number given for ‘collateral damage’ is challengeable. We can never know how many of them were potential terrorists.
Mansoor
I always speak influence of militarism in state matters.
You can see from above comments that I am among few who is highly against kiyani's extension through political set up.So you can put me in category of potential terrorists.This is normal practice in Pakistan culture and that is why our army is desperate to get drone technology so that Nam o nashain of potential terrorists can be swept away through this way.
Khas kaum jehan pak and long live army and King kiyani in junglistan.
@ Extension of Gen Kiyanni :
Keeping in view the record of Pakistan history of military coups and USA support of Dictators ( around the world to achieve their aims) I think this was better solution ONLY IF still Martial rule is not implemented before or after 2013.
USA needs Martial Law strongly at present .
Real Challenge for Gen Kiyani is to prove to his own People at home ,that he is worth it ………He should be able to stop DRONE ATTACKS immediately.
Listen and watch the “boasting” of this Joker “Yaani Top Kay Dahanay Par Betha Hai” aur Falitay mein Ungli Kar Raha Hai.
’امریکی کمزوریاں جانتا ہوں‘
پاکستانی خفیہ ادارے آئی ایس آئی کے سابق سربراہ لیفٹنٹ جنرل (ریٹائرڈ) حمید گل پر ویکی لیکس کی جانب سے جاری ہونے والی ’خفیہ ڈائریز‘ میں کئی مقامات پر طالبان کی مدد کا الزام عائد کیا گیا ہے۔
تاہم بی بی سی سے ایک انٹرویو میں انہوں نے ان تمام الزامات کی سختی سے تردید کی ہے۔
آخری وقت اشاعت: پير 26 جولائ 2010 , 17:33 GMT 22:33 PST
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/multimedia/2010/07/1007…
LOL: I have worked with them [USA but read CIA] him, I know them [USA but read CIA] – Hamid Gul in the interview above.
Would Mr. Hamid Gul like to enlighten us all as to who is called agent and in which capacity he worked with US Government 1979 – 1993 [he retired during Nawaz's first regime]
Now, watch the US Dubious Role: Hamid Gul's negative influence on USA:) The United States has condemned as "irresponsible" the leak of 90,000 military records, saying publication could threaten national security. The documents released by the Wikileaks website include details of killings of Afghan civilians unreported until now. US says Wikileaks could 'threaten national security' 26 July 2010 Last updated at 13:15 GMT http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-1075857…
Mr. Hamid Gul is also suffering from amnesia, he supported the 12 Oct 1999 Coup: General Hamid Gul: "The army acted in the national interest" [LISTEN] : http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/01/alleged-… [click the BBC links of 12 Oct 1999 coup] – musharrad and co were supporting every kind of Jihadis before 911 and even after that right under the nose of Bush: And this takes me back to Pervez Musharraf’s first visit to the US after his coup. At a meeting with a group of journalists among whom I was present, my dear and much lamented friend Tahir Mirza, then the Dawn correspondent, asked Musharraf why he was not acting against Lashkar-e Tayba and Jaish-e Muhammad. Musharraf went red in the face and shot back, “They are not doing anything in Pakistan. They are doing jihad outside.”
Pakistan Army is certainly not doing America's dirty work in our tribal areas. This is our very own war. The scourge of terrorism has effected Pakistan's social, cultural and economic activities. These terrorists are operating in our midst but sadly we are more interested in conspiracy theories rather than opening our eyes and seeing the reality. And as far as the drown attacks are concerned then lets be realistic, these attacks have certainly helped our forces by eliminating some of the most wanted terrorists.
Shamyl?
What are drown attacks? some siblings of clown attacks?
Thanks for clariyfing "Pakistan Army is certainly not doing America’s dirty work in our tribal areas."…. 🙂 LOL……
It may be your own war, you must be getting paid for it, as Pakistan Army is.
I'm not getting paid for it. I doubt other 99% of Pakistanis are getting any $$$$$ for it too.
. I doubt other 99% of Pakistanis are getting any $$$$$ for it too.
We 99% Pakistanis are tagged like awaara and bloody civilians by this one percent ruling army management forgetting that their roots are also lying with us.
So we dont deserve any dollars but some rupees are spared for you and me which our kins would claim over our dead bodies as civilian victim of terrorism.
That is enough for you.
Margalla crash has all civilian victims. could you heard the last recorded conversation of Air traffic control and pilot that for whom movement that flight was not allowed to land in last moment of landing even that plane was ready to land as per previous instruction.
So some ruling group has no regrets for bloody civilians a tragic legacy which army rulers have left for us.
@ awaara
Excuse the typo and stop your 'clown attacks'. I am just sharing my opinion on the issue. If you disagree then simply do so. Do not label those as heretics (like taliban does) who do not share your opinion/views. All I am saying is that the war is being fought between Pak Army and Anti-Pakistani religious fundamentalists on our own land. Who is the victim here? And who is paying the price here? Certainly Paki citizens. Our officers and soldiers are laying their lives to protect us and our homeland from the monster of Taliban. Just like what they did against the Lal Masjid hooligans. Stop thinking about the money. Stand up and be counted. Otherwise stay "high" on conspiracy theories. Hail Pakistan Army!
Shamyl,
Hail Pakistan Army or Hell Pakistan Army?
Stop black-mailing Pakistanis, we had enough of the crap of Na-Pak Army.
If you feel its your war, please, please please go to waziristan and fight those *anti-pakistanis*, who have now stopped taking orders from GHQ.
Now you sound like a typical Pakistani jahil who is always a pessimist, sadist, defeatist, complaining and grudging loser. Keep burning…
Pak Fauj ki azmat ko lakhon karoro salaam.
Shamyl
your love for army should be praised at all level.is it kind of paid love ,acquired or innate ??
just for General knowledge.
Your are right we all are burning with differences and confusion that what is our real problem that in 62 years we have spent our all resources on our army and result is we are in war for last 7 years.
we have started our journey of militancy from slogan of crush India, then we crushed Bengali, then we crushed Reds, now we are crushing Taliban.In this crushing period we are loosing our real people too which is not in control of our army which is always switched on "crush" mode".
Awara
it is hailing of resources and funds for Pakistan army and in reaction hell like situation is being created for civilian set up.
Shamyl
you are not interested in listening the comments of brown people like me who look you sadist,pessimistic, defeatist etc
it is so heart breaking for you and your team when your Gora shahib is openly commenting on performance of Pakistan army and specially its problem child ISI in the house of your favorite enemy.
These golden words are not for poor civilians(Exporter of terrorism)but for your eyes only from house of Lords as
Pakistan must not be allowed to promote export of terror, says David Cameron
British PM makes speech in Bangalore that comes close to endorsing the Indian government's view that the authorities in Pakistan have a hand in exporting terrorism
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/28/pakis…
@ Nazia
My love for Pakistan Armed Forces has only one reason i.e. their sacrifices and services for my land. They laid down their lives to protect our lives in times of war and peace. They provided humanitarian and rescue services in time of national calamities and religious-cum-political chaos. When we sleep in its literal meaning, they protect our borders. And when we sleep politically, intellectually and patriotically they protect our national and international interests. As far as our 62 years old history, as you mentioned, is concerned then lets admit that we are an irresponsible and emotional nation. Our political and religious leaders fiendishly destroyed Jinnah's dream of progressive Pakistan by implementing a theocratic political system. A system that thrives on hatred, intolerance, bigotry, corruption, wastage and Jagirdari. Our bureaucrats failed to act as civil servants by becoming Pharoahs that only seeking control of public enterprises. And we as a nation are not interested in the development of our country and betterment of our future generations. No wonder the voter turnout is always peanuts in elections against our total population. We only talk and watch porn on the net and take pride in becoming world number one in that category. So while we sleep and dream about conspiracy theories, the Army is taking good care of our beloved country. Therefore, it deserves little praise and respect although nobody is perfect and no institution is a holy cow.
Shamyl,
Yes every body is crooked in Pakistan, the religious parties, the political parties, the beaurucrats and even the sadist, defeatist, pessimist Pakistanis but not PAKISTAN ARMY.
Shamyl, I think you also believe in tooth-fairy.
You have been living in fantasy land for far too long.
Shamyl says: July 31, 2010 at 3:45 am @ Nazia When we sleep in its literal meaning, they protect our borders.
================
That is a Urban Legend and Fiction, history is not written on Fictional Accounts. Would you like to tell me about Surrenders in every War.
@ Mughal Sahib
I respect your opinion about urban legends and your right to express it but I do not agree with it at all. About Surrenders, you can not win a war without popular support at home. That exactly is the reason behind the so called "surrenders" against the enemy which is three times larger with patriotic citizens. But the war is not over yet. It is continuing at many fronts and Pakistan Army is doing its best, in my opinion, although I am against the business of wars.
Shamyl says: August 1, 2010 at 1:39 am About Surrenders, you can not win a war without popular support at home.
=================
Dear Shamyl Sahab,
I also respect your opinion but, Sir, opinion and mere talks of Patriotism wouldn't change the Fact. Popular Support is one thing Operation Gibraltar and Operation Grand Slam [1965 War] and later Kargil were the biggest disaster for Pakistan's very integrity.
There are some Generals in Pak army who are greedy of wealth & power, among them two names are always suspicious, Gen Hamid Gul & Gen Aslam Baig ? Most of the Generals are not faithful & sincere with the nation, rather they are sincere & faithful to Americans.
Sincere Pakistani says: July 27, 2010 at 9:35 pm There are some Generals in Pak army who are greedy of wealth & power, among them two names are always suspicious, Gen Hamid Gul & Gen Aslam Baig ?
==============
Sir,
These words of yours should be written in Gold.
sincere pakistani
why are you are focused on generals of Past.
You have no updates of corruption of our serving generals?
That is more important to highlight.
If you cant do for all just start through the close friends of Musharraf and why not Musharraf?
Why he is so desperate of coming back to politics.
Because his accounts are overflowing with money he earned through land/construction/business deals via his son's company .
He is so miser and corrupt that he could have spent this illegal income to any free education or health projects for people of Pakistan but he is only interested to back to top seat and here he is spending all.
so come on guys have some courage and focus your energy on our present situation and working people.
Mughal
There is no need to waste precious gold on ugly acts of generals of Past.
our army is still living in the patterns of wrong doing.
Why you not waste your golden words for present serving people.
@amir
Thanks for the details and links. Quite informative
I am enjoying your history digging hobby for nothing.
What is purpose of all this now after 30 years?
Why I have serious perception that you people are trying to divert the attention of viewers and readers toward bad patches of history.
What kind of suspense left in this historical tragedy which was once projected as one of biggest achievement of Muslim world via US military mullah alliance.
I am surprised by reading your discussion that why you people are intentionally ignoring the corruption of present serving generals.
Policy of massacre for western interests is still same but its direction is opposite but all character of such deadly drama are full in action with same intensity.This time we are tending more dangerous situation by bombarding our own people and territory.
So intelligence guys lets have some moral courage and throw light what your acting bosses are really earning through drone attacks, via black water,defence deals, and dyn corps, and through food and fuel deals with Nato forces.
You think our generals easily compromised on Pak Afghan transit trade.
Try to get the data that how many families of senior army men have transferred their assets and young kids to US and UK through such deals.
There is no need to beating the bush and probing conclusive issues but try to sort the plague mouses in your army who are trying to hide under the fake name of serving the nation through this war on terror activity.
Kiyani and shujha pasha didnt get extension for securing Pakistan borders but for storing vested interests in the region.
I think you want to keep this suspense so that your younger generation would repeat present events after 30 years with same style as you are doing here.But I am sure they wouldn't live in Pakistan as under present rule we have risked our all sovereignty and national stability at stake.
I am humbled:)
Nazia says: July 27, 2010 at 11:09 pm I am enjoying your history digging hobby for nothing. What is purpose of all this now after 30 years?
================
Far more Learned and Literate than all of us here was Ibn Khaldun who in his Muqaddimah of Ibn Khaldun [philosophy of history, social sciences, demography, historiography, or cultural history] had advised that nobody can avoid mistakes in future if he/she didn't learn lesson from history, I posted above posts keeping that in mind.
Nazia says:July 27, 2010 at 11:09 pm Try to get the data that how many families of senior army men have transferred their assets and young kids to US and UK through such deals.
================
If you know anything share with us but I won't write a single word without a reference.
Mughal
you look ignorant what generations have done to philosophical guide lines of Ibne khuldun. Surely He is best known for his Muqaddimah but his ideas were not absorbed by his society, nor were they carried forward by its future generations.A general intolerant Arab culture and scientists were not free to publish his ideas.
Nazia says: – July 28, 2010 at 4:02 pm Mughal you look ignorant what generations have done to philosophical guide lines of Ibne khuldun. Surely He is best known for his Muqaddimah but his ideas were not absorbed by his society, nor were they carried forward by its future generations.A general intolerant Arab culture and scientists were not free to publish his ideas.
=========================
Have you read History of Muslim Spain if not then read.
Nazia says: – July 28, 2010 at 4:02 pm Mughal you look ignorant what generations have done to philosophical guide lines of Ibne khuldun. Surely He is best known for his Muqaddimah but his ideas were not absorbed by his society, nor were they carried forward by its future generations.A general intolerant Arab culture and scientists were not free to publish his ideas.
=========================
Ibn Khaldun has discussed the fall of Muslim Spain.
Mughal
I earlier said
So intelligence guys lets have some moral courage and throw light what your acting bosses are really earning through drone attacks, via black water,defence deals, and dyn corps, and through food and fuel deals with Nato forces.
You think our generals easily compromised on Pak Afghan transit trade.
There is no need to go in depth just pick the name of serving and retired officers who are/were invloved with above mentioned deals.
I am not a reporting officer of any agency who run for evidences for proving my points. I am seeing it all is happening around me.
I am not like you people you want to be proud bone collector and feel happy that I got the clues what was happened actually 30 years ago.
We the professional people are well aware of our goals after few years of service after joining any organizations .If hamid gul and Beig did all they were well aware what they were doing.But all chased personal gains more than national intersets and tells us their limited mental approach.
Nobody around them or from public had courage to highlight their wrong doings at right time when they were earning abnormal source of incomes through such games which you people are now probing as your hobby.
Man is known by company he keeps.
I dont know exactly the personal corruption of kiyani but stories of high level of corruption of his brother a retired brigadier in DHa deals can easily be approached.Even ISI officers with malik raiz were invloved of allotting him land of his desires.
His close friend now MD of army organization last months claim almost 40 lakh TA/DA in his foreign trips from company budget which were just planned for excursions on the name of official duty.Interesting thing is that he claimed the ticked of his female lover that cost company almost 11 lAKH and no one from fiance dept of fauji foundation has courage to complain agianst such colorful scam.
He is not single who is invloved in such hanky panky but almost all seniors close to King Kiyani are busy in such kind of activities when our state is declared in war state by the same army under chief kiayni.
I am surprise that if as an ordinary person I can see all this why you people cant open such day light crimes who look more interested in spent cartridges like gul and beig.
Oh I think you need more 30 years to get the real evidence what I am saying here.
In recent months 100 of serving and retired army officers and their families belong to DHA have been allotted 5 to 10 years US visa.Some were allotted even social security number.The visa request was generated through Harvard university so that these officers can visit their faculties and recommend same kind of set up in DHA Pakistan network.
Officers of faisal base Karachi are also found invloved in such prioritize citizens of Pakistan from US management.
Nazia says: – July 28, 2010 at 3:17 pm Mughal I earlier said
So intelligence guys lets have some moral courage and throw light what your acting bosses are really earning through drone attacks, via black water,defence deals, and dyn corps, and through food and fuel deals with Nato forces.
=============================
What do you mean by "my acting bosses"? Do you live in France?
Nazia: I am not a reporting officer of any agency who run for evidences for proving my points. I am seeing it all is happening around me.
MAM: Then tell us some names:)
Nazia: I am not like you people you want to be proud bone collector and feel happy that I got the clues what was happened actually 30 years ago.
MAM: Excessive use of Vitamin "i" can cloud ones vision.
Nazia: Nobody around them or from public had courage to highlight their wrong doings at right time when they were earning abnormal source of incomes through such games which you people are now probing as your hobby.
MAM: Do read the newspapers and books published in 90s wherein Beg and Gul were thoroghly exposed and that was their peak period.
Mughal
you reply
MAM: Then tell us some names:)
This is your style .Now I am giving you very close or direct clues.use your intelligence skills, this time I am providing you events
MAM: Excessive use of Vitamin “i” can cloud ones vision.
I love to use my vitamin I capsule it increase my moral strength.
I have already told you I am ordinary civilian not a secret paid agent who only work on dictation of bosses.
I am an eye witness what I am saying here you people try to get the real point.
MAM: Do read the newspapers and books published in 90s wherein Beg and Gul were thoroughly exposed and that was their peak period.
You are here to read so why I waste my precious time on those character whom I publicly call traitors.
They are still enjoying freedom of all in this state even stories were exposed in 90s.
They are now our indeed advisers of all.
Let me try to explain you with my example what I am trying to say you and other commentators.
If you have your grandfather and your son living with you in same house and lets suppose your grandPa was a corrupt man from depth of his character(due apology just an example to guide you).Now he is all time preaching you and your son with high moral stories.
would you take interest on listening him or try to embarrass old pal by revealing his real secrets.
On the other hand your son is not in your control so to whom you should focus your energy and concentration.
That is my point.Both grand pa and grand sons are on the same track of misdeed and you are more interested in projecting old curses rather viewing the performance of your next generation whom survival of you and your family depends.
Don't worry people. Pakistani military is just practicing for Gazwa-e-Hind!
Sacrificing ones life for the sake of the country is written in the job description of military brass. Now I am saying that the 'Army is doing its job right' against your argument that 'it is not and if it is then so what'. So be it but we must agree to disagree for the sake of civility.
Go to a country facing external aggression or active in military endeavors like Israel, Turkey, India, U.S, U.k, North Korea, Australia and so on and I am sure you would find people easily naming their army chiefs. Anyway perception is different than reality and actors are different than soldiers. Therefore,your analogy, in my view, does not appeal to reason. And let me say that one is innocent until proven guilty in the court of law so bring on the evidence and prove the corruption of any army officer. If you do that i would be the first one to congratulate you. Even though Army is not perfect and if there are some corrupt officers, for the sake of argument, then they are screened out by Army itself which is a universally recognized practice in armed forces.
And hey why you guys are repeatedly saying that I am on Army's payroll? Yes i respect our army and critically analyse its actions. And yes you are degrading Army and ISI. So does it mean that you are on payroll of Indian government and RAW? Make sense? No way.
Shamyl says
Yes i respect our army and critically analysis its actions. And yes you are degrading Army and ISI. So does it mean that you are on payroll of Indian government and RAW? Make sense?
This is the way you are critically analyzing army as we found in your comments.
Where is your critical analysis ????
you again show your talent by saying.
"And I agree that many low ranking non-army security personals are involved in every kind of smuggling of goods, people and drugs".
How poorly you are explaining this.
That simple observation shows how poor you are presenting Pak army.
In miltiary setup or even civilian departments nothing could be facilitated unless seniors make an example of wrong doings and embezzlement.
Units/department and industry only shows down fall trend when incapable and corrupt management is dominant in respective areas.
Making check and balance on junior's corruption is job of higher management and that is why they are selected as privileged class to lead low caliber class in an orderly way.
In this post army officers (majority from major to generals) are found indulged in wrong business and this can easily be judged by their daily expenditures and after retirement business ventures.
Oh my God
You people are not more than actors.
that is why I commented like that, securing points for nothing but projection of routine job is considered high efficiency in army circles.
Your this statement is prove of my criticism.
For your kind information Israel and Indian agents cant reveal such kind of as I am doing here.
I was handed over to my father from Lahore CMH gyne ward so your apprehension of declaring me ISRAEL AND Indian agent couldnt work in my case.I am pure product raised from military setup and my education and training has transformed me into pure civilian living in insecure environment due to state adventures of militarism.
@ Nazia
I respect your emotions and opinions weather or not you are working for anti-state internal/external elements. Corruption is at its lowest level or almost non-existent in army run enterprises when compared to other organizations. But as I said before that nobody is perfect and certainly no institution is a holy cow. Still i find army the most professional and dedicated institution and saviour of my beloved land. Although I view secular democratic civilian political setup as the best solution to our problems. But we aren't mature enough and occasionally require "sticks" to stick to our national responsibilities.
hahahahaha
This is one of the shortest, precise and Objective statement i have seen over internet, lol 🙂
Shamyl says: August 1, 2010 at 5:33 pm Corruption is at its lowest level or almost non-existent in army
=================
MB says: August 5, 2010 at 12:24 pm hahahahaha This is one of the shortest, precise and Objective statement i have seen over internet, lol 🙂
================
Yes corruption was no where near Army and this is all "Bakwas"
West Pakistan and their Extremely Biased Newspapers [particularly Nawa-e-Waqt] had played havoc with Bengalis and we should all ask fro forgiveness and 6/7 years ago in his individual capacity Allaama Iqbal's son Javed Iqbal did that in a Seminar held in Dhaka, Bagladesh – Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report Chapter 1
The Moral Aspect Introductory In Chapter I of Part V of the Main Report, we have dealt at some length with the moral aspect of the causes of our defeat in the 1971 War. http://www.bangla2000.com/bangladesh/Independence…
In the situation that developed after the military action of the 25th of March 1971, the civil administration in East Pakistan practically came to a standstill, and the burden of running the Province fell heavily upon the Army Officers. Their involvement in civil administration continued unabated even after the induction of a sizable number of senior civil servants from West Pakistan, including the Chief Secretary, the Inspector General of Police and at least two Division Commissioners.
Shamyl says: August 1, 2010 at 5:33 pm Corruption is at its lowest level or almost non-existent in army
=================
MB says: August 5, 2010 at 12:24 pm hahahahaha This is one of the shortest, precise and Objective statement i have seen over internet, lol 🙂
=======================
کیا روشنی سے ڈرتے ہو؟
وجاہت مسعود
وقتِ اشاعت: Sunday, 17 December, 2006, 00:48 GMT 05:48 PST
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/miscellaneous/story/200…
مگر جنگ کے بعد بھارتی فوج کو جنرل فرمان کے میز سے ایک ڈائری ملی جس میں خود جنرل فرمان کے ہاتھ سے ناموں کی ایک فہرست تحریر تھی۔ ان ناموں میں سے چودہ افراد 14 دسمبر کی رات مارے گئے۔ الطاف گوہر راوی تھے کہ انہوں نے ایک مشترکہ دوست کے توسط سے راؤ فرمان کو اپنے عزیز دوست ثناالحق کی جان بخشی کی سفارش کی تھی۔ راؤ فرمان کی فہرست میں ثناالحق واحد خوش نصیب تھے جو 14 دسمبر کے بعد بھی زندہ رہِے۔
shamyl
one thing I should clear to all people who are in job that while they are on service and get perks and benefits , they are doing their assigned duty and duty only.this work doesnt come in the category of sacrifices.
This is international recognition of military.
If you go to any developed country and ask name of their army chief to common street people, you would hardly find any person who can name their chief.
Nobody bothers about such ordinary posts who are dependent on collection of taxes.
We belong to different kind of professions are all time in risk of health and life if we work in hosptials, running plants, construction sites, working on roads and mountains.
So army men are not hired for amusing/impressing the nation through juggling acts but are hired for some specfic jobs.
Giving the life in the line of duty is fate of many professionals but in Pakistan it is projected in army circles in the same way as our sultan rahee was projected in our Punjabi films.
The hero of movie who is considered as symbol of bravery in Pakistan is no more consider as a joker in any international standard .In real life he couldnt resist on street robbery and one bullet was enough to kill that legend of heroism in Pakistan.
I put Pakistan army performance under corrupt officers in recent combats just like our sultan rahee.
You love your army as you are/were on pay roll of army.
surely it was not job of army to give humanitarian but as big economical burden on the country where civilians have no power no gas and no SOPs in any kind of calamity and man made disasters so they can do such kind of little social work for showing sympathies to deprived nation .
Sacrificing ones life for the sake of the country is written in the job description of military brass. Now I am saying that the ‘Army is doing its job right’ against your argument that ‘it is not and if it is then so what’. So be it but we must agree to disagree for the sake of civility.
Go to a country facing external aggression or active in military endeavors like Israel, Turkey, India, U.S, U.k, North Korea, Australia and so on and I am sure you would find people easily naming their army chiefs. Anyway perception is different than reality and actors are different than soldiers. Therefore,your analogy, in my view, does not appeal to reason. And let me say that one is innocent until proven guilty in the court of law so bring on the evidence and prove the corruption of any army officer. If you do that i would be the first one to congratulate you. Even though Army is not perfect and if there are some corrupt officers, for the sake of argument, then they are screened out by Army itself which is a universally recognized practice in armed forces.
And hey why you guys are repeatedly saying that I am on Army’s payroll? Yes i respect our army and critically analyse its actions. And yes you are degrading Army and ISI. So does it mean that you are on payroll of Indian government and RAW? Make sense? No way.
Shamyl says: August 1, 2010 at 3:08 am General Ayub imposed Martial Law due to popular demand on 8 October 1958.
==============
Now read How "docile" Field Martial [he declared it himself without fighting a single war] Ayub Khan was before USA:
Ayub Khan frustrated with slow pace of negotiations with US during his visit to Washington went to Henry Byroad’s office and told him, ‘I didn’t come here to look at barracks. Our army can be your army if you want us. But let’s make a decision’. In 1950-53, a flurry of Pakistani officials landed in US asking for assistance. Prime Minister Liaqat Ali Khan, C-in-C Ayub Khan, Foreign Minister Zafrullah Khan, Foreign Secretary Ikramullah, Finance Minister Ghulam Muhammad, Defence Secretary Sikander Mirza and special envoy Mir Laiq Ali made US visits with main theme of getting aid. Each one of them believing that he is the most capable one who could do the job of getting American assistance better than anybody else. In July 1959, Pakistan agreed for establishment of US base near Peshawar to be operated by US officials. General Khalid M. Arif while commenting on U-2 incident (U-2 was a US spy plane operating from Badaber base near Peshawar. It was shot down by Soviet SA-2 missile and its pilot Gary Powers was captured. The incident severely compromised Pakistan security and brought the Soviet ire on Pakistan. Soviets paid back Pakistan within a decade during East Pakistan crisis) states that, ‘Pakistan felt deceived because the US had kept her in the dark about such clandestine spy operations launched from Pakistan’s territory’.Statements like these from such highly placed officers don’t speak well for Pakistan. As early as 1959, when Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, as acting foreign minister wished to visit the facility, the American base commander replied that, ‘the minister would be welcome to visit the cafeteria where he would be served coffee and sandwiches’.An American air force base located in the border area of Pakistan near Soviet territory where spy planes were parked, run by Americans where even the highest Pakistani officials could not enter was not suppose to bake cookies or train pilots for aerial aerobatics. Ayub Khan was fully aware of the operations. He was in London at the time of U-2 incident. When the CIA station chief gave Ayub the news, he shrugged his shoulders and said that he had expected this would happen at some point. US Vice President Joe Biden & 'Non Functioning' Democarcy in Pakistan – 1 http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/02/us-vice-…
Shamyl
"
Sacrificing ones life for the sake of the country is written in the job description of military brass."
The ratio of man powers as soldiers, jcos and officers in Pak army is 85:10:5.
Try to publish the data where the sacrifice trend is concentrated in this ratio and where the perks in army circles are focused.
I give you rough estimate that 90% sacrifices are recorded in 85% soldiers ranks and more than 8% for jco and rest are junior officers.You would hardly found any senior military brass who know this job description.You know in civilian set up or in international standard of militarism, the sacrifices of larger numbers of soldiers are always placed in the account of poor planning of top leadership.
That is why they are fired or court martial but Pakistan is an unique example where all kind of worst cases or poor quality and corruption in officers level is maximum tried to cover-up through all ways.
Attack on GHQ building by breaching all its security barricade and 22 hr siege comes in category of good quality management???
Kiyani got 3 year extensions as give and take deal with corrupt politicians. can it be justified in any way in professional terms in any civilized setup as projecting in Pakistan??
In war situation only One lakh army in which 90% are on junior ranks are on forefronts but almost 100%army(5 lakh) are enjoying 100% pay rise sucking last drops from the channels of civilian welfare funding.
you claim
And let me say that one is innocent until proven guilty in the court of law so bring on the evidence and prove the corruption of any army officer.
Ayehsa sidddique book has excellently recorded detail that how army management smoothly did/doing corruption providign it legal covers and projecting their wrong notion of sacrifice for nation.
To whom one can plea against corruption of army as present govt set up was made through straws of NRo .They are wrongly ruling us under protection of kiyanis umbrella.
Long time ago miltiary has taken its accountability rights from the setup of political powers so we have to change the laws to make these khakis accountable in front of public.
Otherwise corruption details of past and present are available and visible to all whom want to see.
if your are wearing the dark goggles given to you through US aid, then surely you cant see it until you are retired or some benefits taken away from you.
Ayesha Siddiqa is a clever but controversial figure. Her sources are biased and weak. Her patriotism and loyalty is questionable. She knows very well how to become famous in a cheap way and short time. Again this is just my opinion on her.
General Kiyani should not have accepted extension but he did. On the other hand the corrupt political set up shouldn't have mess with the generals but they did. Now i see kiyani as our next President. Nobody is ready to learn from the past blunders you see. I believe no person is indispensable in a true republic but some are in banana republics. Anyway by the look of things only Kiyani seems to be truly and humbly interested in serving this nation. Yesterday he himself led a helicopter rescue operation for the flood victims. So what's wrong here? Again there is a vacuum of leadership and Kiyani is there to fill it up. According to the constitution the President is the supreme commander of the armed forces but we never see Zardari visiting the battlefield and uplifting the morale of the soldiers. He is not interested in leading the nation from the front and so do his party of jokers. Now, Zardari is interested in visiting London despite Cameroons's venomous statements against Pakistan. Whereas,the ISI chief has already cancelled his visit to a third rate power known as UK. So one should have the guts to call spade a spade and one should be flexible instead of taking extreme stance on any issue.
Everyone wants to make speed money but I know that army men just can't do it due to strict system of internal checks and balances. Army is like PCB and officers are like Pakistani cricketers. Whereas the other institutions are like PHF and their managers like hockey players. Only difference is leadership, commitment and governance.
Ayesha siddique has nothng controversial in her life .
this is image created by army mafia which are highly exposed through her research work.
She didnt quote any thing wrong in her book
Oh sure she even her thorough research couldnt reach to filthiness and corruption depth of top army management .She is among the pioneer who dare to throw stone toward giant monster .
I am sure the day we are able to get strong and sincere political setup, her research would provide guide line to how and from where to control the movement of monster which is eating away our resources.
For your guidance I can assure you that she only revealed legalization of militarism in our system.What army people and fauji foundations top management are actually doing under their authority is out of range of her research,
I can give you one hint.The Bahria town RWP set up was under the name of Bahria foundation, 20 years back and spared for trust purpose.It was game of generals who under malik riaz guidance turned huge land toward profitable business ventures and filled personal accounts in billions from trust land.
Kindly give me one example where corrupt politicians are hindering the way of corrupt generals.
This is very interesting situation there in this PPP govt since they are in charge.
Army intruded swat for swat operation and after two days PM gave them authority of start of operation.
Our assembly unanimously passed resolution agianst drone attacks but no one from army side has any move to stop this attack.
PM has no courage to aske Kiyani that why security of GHQ was breached in day time when he was also sitting in his office too.
Kiyani was granted illegal and unethical extension without getting approval from assembly.If Politicians are corrupt then on what moral grounds kiyani accepted it?
Actually he demanded for this and they just declared in public to increase their dwarf like status.
Who allowed them facilitating Indian trade via afghan transit deal?
Who is shifting the GDP major share toward defence again and again when majority are dying for mismanagement of ruling groups.
You are again projecting air visit of Kiyani to see how people are suffering and dying.Can this drama cover the weakest contingency handling procedures of our system.
Try to rise your approach of judgment and efficiency of institutes from such cosmetic acts.
Such statement show you are fit for this assigned job.
Labeling you on the pay role of army comes in the category of Chamacahism but labeling others as Israeli or Indian agent is now considered hilarious weakness of our intelligence agencies which when cant get the logical reasoning get straight to conclusions like that.
Come to field area where nature has showed its anger to helpless people .All sufferers are abusing army/Govt who are only helping to foreigners, VIP trapped in resorts and those who have links with army circle.
Afreen Baig Writes, "Dr Ayesha Siddiqa’s ‘The Military Inc.’ is a book deflective of reality, highly derogatory and against the very notion of sovereignty."
""The book ‘Military Inc’ is based upon a series of presumptions and false accusations. Throughout her book, the author obstinately insists that the growth of Military economy is the case of self interest and predatory acquisition by senior officers, in which it allow the Generals to seek benefit for themselves and their clients.
The author fails to provide, any concrete evidence that could confirm her allegations, that questionable transfer of wealth is made to individuals connected with armed forces. All she could give in example were the 500 sq yard official plots given to the Generals at the end of their service, as part of their benefits, and hence her assumption that a retired general is worth from Rs.150 million to Rs.400 million.
Rarely do critics mention, that nominal deduction from the pay of all military officers are made during their service, in return for a small apartment or a small housing, which is handed over at the time of their retirement. However, this facility is still not available to all retiring servicemen.""
She further says,
""Next, the book alleges that the military’s economic greed increases in totalitarian systems, where the general public, private businessmen, civilian corporate sector and national business units are all oppressed to encourage and endorse military business units. Her book focuses largely on the four welfare projects managed by the Pakistan Military i.e. The Fauji Foundation (FF), the Army Welfare Trust (AWT), Shaheen Foundation (SF) and Bahria Foundation (BF), and in some places the Frontier Works Organization (FWO).
The author believes that “the profit earned by military is directly proportional to power and gives the armed forces a sense of being independent of the incompetent civilians” – which can only be considered as an extremely reckless comment.
There was great wisdom behind establishing these welfare projects. The visionary minds knew that “the profit earned by the military will be directly proportional to Sovereignty of the Country and the Institution”.
The Military established its first welfare foundation in 1954, with funds received from the British as part of Pakistan’s share of the Post War Services Reconstruction Fund. In India, those funds were distributed immediately amongst those who fought the Second World War. Unlike India, Pakistan’s wise military opted to use those funds to establish projects that would ensure the overall well-being, availability of jobs, and a decent pension for their armed forces.
The initial purpose of these welfare projects was to create employment opportunities for the honorable retired or disabled military personnel. Servicemen – whose only obligation is defending the borders of Pakistan.""
http://presidentmusharraf.wordpress.com/2008/10/2…
Ayesha Siddiqa is just another pseudo intellectual who gains attention by molding the truth and fabricating lies. She creates fantasies and some people just make a home and live there.
And yeah i agree that Kiyani should not have accepted 3 year extension because it creates resentment in the generals in waiting. He should have understood that only army as an institution is dispensable not the chiefs. Still the guy is doing a commendable job for this country.
Anyway, i have my right to respect army as a free and sane citizen of this country.
Aamir Mughal: why are you forgetting U2 Planes and US Air Base in Badabeer.
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Shamyl says: August 2, 2010 at 2:34 am It actually depends on how you approach history and in what version of history you believe in.
Shamyl says: August 2, 2010 at 2:09 am Afreen Baig Writes, “Dr Ayesha Siddiqa’s ‘The Military Inc.’ is a book deflective of reality, highly derogatory and against the very notion of sovereignty.” “”The book ‘Military Inc’ is based upon a series of presumptions and false accusations.
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Dear Shamyl,
In one statement you are referring to "Sovereignty" and what not and in earlier statement you are talking about "what version of history", please define "Sovereignty" in the light of General Ayub's permission to the USA to establish Airforce [Reconnaissance Base] on Pakistani Soil. I don't know how do you define " "Sovereignty" Please type U2 Spy Plane and US Spy Gary Powers in the search option of The National Security Archive [www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/ Declassified US Government Document] and you will know the following [which happened under the very nose of the so-called "Benevolent Military Dictatorship of General Ayub"
Shamyl says: August 2, 2010 at 2:09 am – Afreen Baig Writes, “Dr Ayesha Siddiqa’s ‘The Military Inc.’ is a book deflective of reality, highly derogatory and against the very notion of sovereignty.” “”The book ‘Military Inc’ is based upon a series of presumptions and false accusations. Throughout her book, the author obstinately insists that the growth of Military economy is the case of self interest and predatory acquisition by senior officers, in which it allow the Generals to seek benefit for themselves and their clients
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Would you like to define this Rape: Lies of Ghulam Mustafa Khar, General [R] Faiz Ali Chishti & Mehran Bank Scandal.
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/04/lies-of-… [by the way I have used old newspapers and not a single reporter was taken to the court of law for for the Damage]
@ Mr. Mughal
Sovereignty of the entire universe belongs to Allah All Mighty. And sometimes the regime takes certain decisions that are in line with the strategic interests of the country. And certainly there are chances that the decision taken by a regime could have chances of human judgmental error. But labeling every action as a blunder and criticizing every decision of any regime could also prove counter productive. We should see the larger picture. But again it depends on how you interpret history.
Shamyl says: August 2, 2010 at 10:59 pm @ Mr. Mughal
Sovereignty of the entire universe belongs to Allah All Mighty.
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Yes and also define this:
If a Dog shall die in hunger near the bank of Euphrates then Omar will be asked for it by Allah [Ref: Tabari, Ibn Khaldun and Al Bidaya Wal Nihaya]
Shamyl: And sometimes the regime takes certain decisions that are in line with the strategic interests of the country.
MAM: In the first sentence you are blaming Allah for sovereignty and in the very next sentence you took 180 degree somersault by saying "regime takes certain decisions"
Shamyl: But labeling every action as a blunder and criticizing every decision of any regime could also prove counter productive. We should see the larger picture. But again it depends on how you interpret history.
MAM: I have just raised the question regarding U2 Plane in connection with General Ayub and sovereignty so where is the "distortion in interpreting the history" because I have just quoted a Historical Fact widely reported all over the world.
@ Mr. Mughal
"If a dog dies hungry on the banks of the River Euphrates, Umar will be responsible for dereliction of duty."
—(Umar Ibn e Khattab)
This statement signifies the greatness of Caliph Umar (R.A). It also goes out to show his commitment and sincerity to social justice and accountability.
Well sovereignty belongs to Allah and the head of the regime as Allah's Khalifa and His manager, is entrusted with running the affairs of the country. Hence, the regime takes certain decisions in the interest of the country. But as they say, "to err is human to forgive is divine"
Shamyl says: August 3, 2010 at 1:08 am It also goes out to show his commitment and sincerity to social justice and accountability. Well sovereignty belongs to Allah and the head of the regime as Allah’s Khalifa and His manager, is entrusted with running the affairs of the country. Hence, the regime takes certain decisions in the interest of the country. But as they say, “to err is human to forgive is divine”
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Since you have brought Allah into this debate then allow me ask as to which quality you found in Ayub or any other Military Ruler [since you are fond of Military Rulers] of Pakistan:
Criteria for being a Ruler in Islam is following [since you have brought Allah so read it]
The Holy Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) said: The people before went astray and were ruined because if a noble person committed theft, they used to leave him but if a weak person among them committed theft, they used to inflict the legal punishment on him. By Allah, if Fatima, the daughter of Mohammad, committed theft, I will cut off her hand. (Agreed upon Hadith).
Did Ayub punish Gohar Ayub for inciting Ethnic Hatred in Karachi for the very first time?
b- The Holy Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) said: If Allah appointed anyone of you rules over a people and he died when he was still treacherous to his people, Allah would forbid his entry into Paradise. {Bukhari and Muslim}.
c- The Holy Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) said: He who doesnot look after his subjects with goodwill sincerity will be deprived of the fragrance of Paradise. {Riaz us Saleheen by Imam Nuwvi}.
d- The Holy Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) said: A ruler who having control over the affairs of the Muslims, doesnot strive diligently for their betterment and does not serve them sincerely, will not enter Paradise with them. {Riaz us Saleheen by Imam Nuwvi}.
j- The Holy Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) said: Do not long for position of authority. If you are granted this position without asking for it you will be helped in discharging its responsibilities, but if you are given it as a result of your requesting for it, you will be left alone as its captive. If you take an oath to do a thing and then find a better alternative, you should adopt the latter and expiate your oath. {Agreed Upon Hadith}.
Didn't General Ayub "OCCUPIED" the position?
l- Abu Zarr (RA) said to The Holy Prophet Mohammad (PBUH): Why do you not appoint me a collector? He (PBUH) patted me on the shoulder and with his hand and said: Abu Zarr, you are a weak man and it is a trust and it will be a cause of disgrace and repentance on the Day of Resurrection except for one who takes it up with a full sense of responsibility and fulfils what is entrusted to him (discharge its obligations efficiently). {Muslim}.
n- Hazrat Abu Musa Ashari (RA) said to The Holy Prophet Mohammad (PBUH): Messenger of Allah, appoint me governor of some land over which Allah gave you ruling authority. The other also requested for something to the same effect. The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said: By Allah, do not appoint against this post anyone who seeks it and is greedy for it. {Agreed Upon Hadith}.
Was General Ayub elected?
Say: O Allah! Owner of Sovereignty! Thou givest sovereignty unto whom Thou wilt, and Thou withdrawest sovereignty from whom Thou wilt. Thou exaltest whom Thou wilt, and Thou abasest whom Thou wilt. In Thy hand is the good. Lo! Thou art Able to do all things. Quran – 3:26
He was selected.
No, Ayub wasn't elected as no elections were held in the first eleven yeas of Pakistan. Practical democracy was absent.
You asked me to define sovereignty and i did. That's it.But thanks a million and Jazakallah for sharing the glorious ahadiths of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him).
About Ayub's good points…he was responsible for seeking and securing military and economic assistance from the U.S and for aligning Pakistan in international affairs. He also engaged in various socio-economic reforms which had the aim of strenghening the infrastructure of democracy in Pakistan. With the support of foreign economic assistance, budget
deficit was brought into balance. And it is a fact that 1960s is called as "the Decade of Development". The development of manufacturing industry, urbanization and Green Revolution in agriculture were some of the main events of that Benevolent Dictatorship.
No significant leaps are found after that period in industrial and agricultural production. Another good thing he did was to introduce the Presidential system in 1962 Constitution. I think presidential system is more efficient and better suited to Pakistan as compared to present setup.
Anyway, my objective here is not to defend Ayub Khan's personality. My reason for being here is to share my opinion about drone attacks and Pakistan Army. In my view Ayub's Martial Law was the only way out to consolidate the newly born country and steer her out of the turbulance caused by the inept, selfish and corrupt religious and political leaders. The country was faced with big military and political threat from the Indians who were waiting for Pakistan's collapse due to internal political instability. At that point in time Army as an institution rose to the occasion and provided moral, administrative, economic, social and political stability to the country.
I am educated enough and sensitive enough to know and experience the damages caused by the dictatorships and political uncertainty. Let me say that i respect army but it dosen't mean that i am a fan of dictatorship and all army chiefs. Nor I am their ADC. For example i just hate the late General Zia ul Haq for what he did to this country, the constitution and the army itself. He absolutely destroyed the very basics of Jinnah's Pakistan and made policies which incredibly led to the terrorism which are we xperiencing these days.
On the other hand I am a fan of Musharraf and compare him with the Great Mughal King Akbar because of his secular leanings. Just as i compare Zia with Aurengzeb Alamgir for using religion as tool to gain power.
I support secular democratic political system. I also want to see the President playing his role as Supreme Commander of Armed Forces. Cuuting the long story short, there is a en ever existent leadership vaccum and only army has been able to fill that vaccum.
Therefore, all we need is a leadership and for that we need the people of this country to come out and vote in the elections. Army is a symbol of pride and pillar of stability. No General or army chief is indespensible. Only this country, its army and people are indespensible.
Shamyl says: – August 3, 2010 at 9:00 pm He was selected.
No, Ayub wasn’t elected as no elections were held in the first eleven yeas of Pakistan. Practical democracy was absent.
================
That means you just jump on Capital with 111 Brigade. By the way you have quote Quran. Quran was the last thing in Ayub's Strategy.
Sahmyl: And it is a fact that 1960s is called as “the Decade of Development”.
MAM: The book and campaign was done by Two Secretaries of Ayub i.e. Qudratullah Shahab and Altaf Gauhar [do you want details?] You won't like the details.
Shamyl:he did was to introduce the Presidential system in 1962 Constitution. I think presidential system is more efficient and better suited to Pakistan as compared to present setup.
MAM: Do you want to know as to how General Ayub promoted the Corruption in the grass root level, read BD System.
Shamyl: On the other hand I am a fan of Musharraf and compare him with the Great Mughal King Akbar because of his secular leanings. Just as i compare Zia with Aurengzeb Alamgir for using religion as tool to gain power.
MAM: Wrong. You are not familiar with the Mughal History so please go and get two books Muntakhibut Tawareekh By Qadir Badayuni and The Mughal Throne by Abraham Eraly.
Shamyl says: – August 3, 2010 at 9:00 pm Ayub wasn’t elected as no elections were held in the first eleven yeas of Pakistan. Practical democracy was absent. And it is a fact that 1960s is called as “the Decade of Development”.
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Qudratullah Shahab and Altaf Gauhar
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Historical Details: Press in Chains with the help of Pervert "Sufi" Qudratullah Shahab!
When I finally managed to join the Pakistan Times – that to this day one calls PT – in 1967, it had already been under effective, though indirect, government control for eight years. The Progressive Papers Ltd (PPL) was one of the Ayub regime’s first targets. Its takeover was husbanded by Qudratullah Shahab, with military muscle provided by Lt. Gen. K.M. Sheikh and its intellectual equivalent by Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. The takeover was a turning point in Pakistan’s political and intellectual history, an act from which the liberal cause has never recovered. Qudratullah Shahab has a great deal to answer for because he it was who wrote that infamous editorial – A New Leaf – that appeared the day after the putsch. Its dishonesty and intellectual depravity lay in the way it was worded. The Pakistan Times Khalid Hasan http://www.khalidhasan.net/2008/07/23/the-pakista…
Shamyl says: – August 3, 2010 at 9:00 pm Ayub wasn’t elected as no elections were held in the first eleven yeas of Pakistan. Practical democracy was absent. And it is a fact that 1960s is called as “the Decade of Development”.
==============
Since you also quoted Mughals so let me update you about one of General Ayub's "Nawratan" Gauhars and Subversion of Free Press in Pakistan. http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/gauhars-…
You are not familiar with the Mughal History so please go and get two books Muntakhibut Tawareekh By Qadir Badayuni and The Mughal Throne by Abraham Eraly.
Badayuni is a hostile critic of Akbar and an orthodox Muslim with whom the omission of a single ceremony of Islam amounted to apostasy. I really do not like his historical "commentary on Akbar's successful and great reign.
Professor Habib, Iswari Prasad and SR Sharma are more accurate and impartial historians who have proved wrong all the allegations raised by badauni on akbar's glorious reign.
I don't know why biased historians like him are still being recognized as the right source of information on Mughal Raj.
Shamyl says: August 4, 2010 at 2:47 am Badayuni is a hostile critic of Akbar and an orthodox Muslim with whom the omission of a single ceremony of Islam amounted to apostasy. I really do not like his historical “commentary on Akbar’s successful and great reign. Professor Habib, Iswari Prasad and SR Sharma
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Which Secular Value allows what Akbar did in Rajputana while occupying and subduing the Valiant Rajputs above all which Secular value allow the Murder of real brother i.e. Mirza Hakeem [Akbar's brother murdered by Akbar] – Which Islamic Value, Commandment, Quranic Verse and Hadith allow what Aurangzeb did with his Father, Shah Jahan, and Brothers Dara, Murad and Shuaj. By the way If you would go through "Fatawa-e-Alamgiri (Collection of Islamic Fatawa compiled on the order of Aurangzeb by the then Mullash)" then you may find every Fatwa against Quran and Hadith rather the book is an outright "Kamasutra"
Shamyl says: August 4, 2010 at 9:28 pm Mughal Sahib Again you are missing the big picture. As far as Aurengzeb is concerned, I hate him for what he did to his brothers and aging father.
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Why the yardstick is not applied on Akbar who also killed his own brother?
Mughal Sahib
Again you are missing the big picture. Rajputs constituted the military class of the Hindu community, forming 3/4th of the state manpower. Akbar adopted a conciliatory policy towards them. The great king by his wise and liberal policy secured the support of the Rajputs to such an extent that they rendered valuable services to his empire and shed their blood for it. In order to enlist their sympathties Akbar granted them freedom of worship and liberty of conscience to Rajputs.Many scions of Rajputana were appointed at high royal appointments. As a result, the whole Rajputana submitted to akbar except udai singh and his son Rana Pratap Singh. Many Rajput Rajas like Man Singh fought military battles against the rebellious rajput ranas in Mandalgarh, Chitor, Ajmer and so on. It was a common practice among Muslims kings during Delhi Sultanate era and later Mughal Raj that all contenters for throne were either blinded or killed as there existed no proper law of accession. As far as Aurengzeb is concerned, I hate him for what he did to his brothers and aging father. Had Dara Shikoh won the battle of accession, today we would have been living in a completely different world. And am no fan of orthodox bigot Aurngzeb. His prolonged Deccan campaigns or 'Deccan ulcer'ruined the Mughal empire and ultimately led to its fall.
Aamir Mughal says:
"Why the yardstick is not applied on Akbar who also killed his own brother?"
Because he did not kill his brother under the garb of religion. Secondly he did not paraded his brother's naked body in public.
Shamyl says: August 5, 2010 at 1:28 am Because he did not kill his brother under the garb of religion. Secondly he did not paraded his brother’s naked body in public.
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Means it is allowed to kill under Secular Law and it is also allowed to demolish the temples and Akbar did both but not condemned for that but Aurangzeb is condemned whereas Aurangzeb also allowed Temples for Hindus. Yes Aurangzeb demolish the temples as well.
Aurangzeb ordered the local officials in Benares to protect the temples and Brahman temple functionaries. (Ref. Firman ordering mansabdar Abulhasan in Benares dt. Feb. 28, 1659, quoted by the Journal of the Asiatic Society of Bengal, Page 689-90, 1911)
I think you have missed the trail. It was a common practice of Muslim Kings to kill any potential contender for the throne. NO LAW OD SUCCESSION, i repeat NO LAW OF SUCCESSION existed. Another aspect, for you just for you, was that Akbar killed his brother after assuming the title and due to palace intrigues. He did not use the cover of religion for this act.
And Akbar was not a signatory to Geneva Convention. He was secular because he separated religion from politics. He destroyed temples only those who rebelled against him unlike Mahmud Ghaznavi.
Shamyl says: August 5, 2010 at 2:47 am I think you have missed the trail. It was a common practice of Muslim Kings to kill any potential contender for the throne.
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MAM: Common practice doesn't justify it.
Shamyl: And Akbar was not a signatory to Geneva Convention.
MAM: Then don't make a Plato out of Akbar.
Shamyl: He was secular because he separated religion from politics.
MAM: What was "Deen-e-Illahi"? If he separated Religion from Politics.
Shamyl: He destroyed temples only those who rebelled against him unlike Mahmud Ghaznavi.
MAM: Three Generals in Mahmud Army were Hindus [Ref: Mauj-e-Kausar by Sheikh M Ikram]
Jinnah's dream was actually destroyed by military men and on this list Ayyb name was on the top of list who never missed any chance of abusing that lady jinnah which was still considered as first lady of Pakistan.
So kindly correct your record who actually harmed the democratic system of Pakistan.
You again have wrong perception that our army is securing our borders.try to accept the facts with open heart that our border security forces including FC, coast guard, rangers and what ever variety we have for our borders, are 99% corrupt and actually responsible of facilitating smuggling goods, including, oil, Pan, gold, arms ,clothes and all which is illegible to cross our borders.
Our nation once loved Pak army as long as they were unaware of their real acts.This scene was dominant in 1971 but slowly slowly curtain has been raising from such fake suspense movie.thanks to Musharraf era that he had put off all clothes from lady of bravery which we always considered as scared for our nation.
In return to its nation and people, army management only made/making flirt moves with people.
They take us for granted as you consider us bloody fools or civilians no more than it.
Why we as civilians are unable to maintain our quality of living?
The day we are able to snatch 40 %of budget toward education and health, you would see how these bloody civilians would react to your authority which you maintained by showing us signs of harassment.
So situation would only come to normal when this concealed and denial attitude of military men would touch the level of acknowledgment with true spirit of sincerity towards real goal and it is to guard the country not rule the country and its fellow men.
Lies and fake boosters cant make strong bridge on deep trenches which have been created between civilian and miltiary setup in last years.
So choice is yours to opt for smooth and organized backlash for creating such disorders in the system otherwise, I am fully hoping that good social changes are awaiting ahead.
Nazia says: – July 31, 2010 at 6:56 pm Jinnah’s dream was actually destroyed by military men
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Jinnah's Dream was destroyed by Jinnah himself and by the way who sent the Army in Qallat INSTRUMENT OF ACCESSION OF KALAT STATE http://balochistaninhistory.blogspot.com/2008/10/… for the very first time. Let me tell you more bluntly – There is a blood on the hands of the Top Leadership of Muslim League and Congress of those who faced worst kind of upheaval during FORCED MIGRATION to and fro. Hands of Quaid, Mahatama, Naita and Bapu are tainted with the bloods of Innocent people. Ask those who lost their loved ones during partition from both sides. [Correct me if I am wrong somewhere]
I agree that Lady Jinnah's campaign against General Ayub Khan suffered from a number of drawbacks. An unfair and unequal election campaign, poor finances, and indirect elections through basic democracy system were some of the problems she faced. Hence, she lost the election of 1965. But I do not understand what democratic system are you referring to? General Ayub imposed Martial Law due to popular demand on 8 October 1958. But what happened before the past eleven years? The country had seen seven governments headed by seven Prime Ministers. The swift changes in the government due to political bargaining and shifting part affiliations, promoted instability. Political opportunism, intrigues, lack of discipline in political parties and corrupt adventurism by politicians for material and personal gains led the country from one crisis to another. Even, the Muslim League and other parties opposed the One Unit when the Republican supported it and had a volte-face when the Republicans wanted it dissolved. The Army Chief General Ayub Khan advised army men to avoid taking part in part politics. It is, however, a matter of common knowledge that the political organizations cannot exist effectively in social chaos and the state of affairs in Pakistan at that time was very close to anarchy. Therefore, when Martial Law was clamped, the people heaved a sigh of relief. The interference of army in politics was associated by the people with the defense of the country in view of grave eternal threats. It was the time when politicians had lost their popular character and the people looked towards the heaven for a miracle to happen which never happened but ultimately they were satisfied with the Martial Law.
"Our border security forces including FC, coast guard, rangers and what ever variety we have for our borders" are under the command of army officers. And I agree that many low ranking non-army security personals are involved in every kind of smuggling of goods, people and drugs.
Kamran Shafi, i know, popularized the word "bloody civilians" that helped him in creating a niche market for his articles. Now that market see the reality of army through his lenses. This word, to the best of my limited knowledge, is not alive in army circles and if it is then I condemn it. And yes, not every Military ruler proved great for this country but Musharraf most definitely stand above all of them. His qualities and services greatly outweighs his vices. Personally, I would love to see him back in the country.
I pray that one day we are able to put our priorities right and allocate the major chunk of our national budget to education and health. But for that WE ALL need to cast our votes on the election day instead of cribbing and living in conspiracy theories.
Shamyl says: – August 1, 2010 at 3:08 am I agree that Lady Jinnah’s campaign against General Ayub Khan suffered from a number of drawbacks.
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It is called "Fascism" Pure and Simple and other words are Rigging and Blatant misuse of State Authority and Ayub's son Captain Gohar Ayub celebrated the victory with the blood os innocent people. You may not not remember but Jinnah has suspended Ayub when he was not cooperating with Sardar Nishter in EAST PAKISTAN.
Shamyl says: August 1, 2010 at 3:08 am General Ayub imposed Martial Law due to popular demand on 8 October 1958.
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How does one become aware of Public Opinion for imposing Martial Law: a glimpse of Ayub Khan is as under: Jang Group: Ansar Abbasi, ISI and Peace with India [Aman Ki Asha]
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/01/jang-gro…
No Sir, that wasn't "Fascism". That was pure and simple benevolent dictatorship.
Corruption is at its lowest level or almost non-existent in army run enterprises when compared to other organizations.
It is very wrong statement and proving that you are here to giving cover ups of corruption of army management which is more prominent in senior officers as compared to junior ranks.
Oh you want Musharraf back as he has excellent quality of ruling the people.
Kiyani would become CinC and Musharf would be our President in coming year.
Allah allah khair sullah.
The man is not willing to live in its land less than high post is allotted to him through IsI network , JUI and mqm support.These are his legendary supports which can give back his power image.
Is this only way to serve the country?
retired and discarded generals only think of ruling the people.
Try to give him some courage pills to face the people without govt security and western guarantees.
Try to convince him that nation can be served other than getting top position.
try to tell him truth that he cant do more worst to this country as he did in his last regime which whole nation is reaping.
Musharraf is really rich in ghost admirers like you who cant even come with real ids .That is why since the time of his announced resignation not a single group of admirers had come forward in the city where he ruled the people for 9 years.I am really waiting for last 2 years where his admirers gone/existed in our surroundings .Oh sure in USA I found his admirers who never visited Pakistan for last many years and who got inspiration by his fake projection in western media.
Shamyl says: – August 1, 2010 at 5:21 pm No Sir, that wasn’t “Fascism”. That was pure and simple benevolent dictatorship.
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Only an Inhuman Soul can term Ayub's Dictatorship a "Benevolent Dictatorship" in view of Ethnic Killings ordered by his own son Captain Gauhar Ayub. I wonder if you have read about 22 Families and Gandhara Affairs and why are you forgetting U2 Planes and US Air Base in Badabeer.
Shamyl says: – August 1, 2010 at 5:21 pm No Sir, that wasn’t “Fascism”. That was pure and simple benevolent dictatorship.
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Let me give you a Glimpse of Ignorant Mindset i.e. Demise of Common Sense:
Pearl of Wisdom and Demise of Common Sense:)
Major General (r) Ghulam Omar (He was a close confidant of General Yahya Khan, secretary of National Security Council and a key member of the military regime in 1971) with all the hindsight in 1993 has this to say about 1971 crisis, “I swear by God that Pakistan was broken by Bhutto, Mujib, Indira, Soviet Union and America. It was a conspiracy hatched by all of them together”.
Brigadier (r). Amanullah’s (He has served as ISI head of the Sindh province and currently secretary of Benazir Bhutto) statement. In an interview, while talking about nuclear strike against India, he stated, “They have acted so badly towards us; they have been so mean. We should teach them a lesson”. He went on to add that, “Believe me, if I were in charge, I would have already done it’. He then chillingly gives us his death wish that, “Before I die, I hope I should see it”.
More " Diazepam"
Two examples of senior officers will illustrate the lack of any in-depth knowledge even about their own society.
Lt. General (r) Hameed Gul (Former DG ISI and Corps Commander) refuted the theory of isolation if Pakistan go nuclear by stating that, “Firstly, because it is self-sufficient in food and secondly, because Pakistan is a nuclear state. The difficulty will help Pakistan to unleash a socio-monetary revolution in the country”.
Lt. General (r) Javed Nasir (Former DG ISI) while talking about the potential financial difficulties if nuclear tests were done stated, “what Pakistan will miss in terms of foreign loans? The expatriates and Pakistani nationals within the country will pile up billions of dollars without much problem”.
Brigadier Gulzar Ahmad explaining the role of celestial powers to lessen his troop casualties in 1965 war stated, “There was a hidden hand deflecting the rounds which would otherwise have taken a heavy toll of the advancing troops”.
(That spiritual power suddenly vanished during every "Surrender Ceremony" from Taskent to Kargil)
Hasheesh from GHQ
ISI chief Lt. General Mahmud Ahmad during Pakistani ambassador’s conference ‘reprimanded the ambassadors for not relying ‘on the intercession of Providence’ while analyzing Pakistan’s Afghan policy’.
Martial Mind Pakistan Officer Corps thought-process about Defence Columnist Hamid Hussain explores the Pakistan military mind-set.
http://www.defencejournal.com/2002/july/martial.h…
Note: Minus Hamid Gul everyone is in Tableeghi Jamaat now but why not during Service in Crisp Uniform.
@ Nazia
We don't need to be angry at others when they share their honest thoughts.
No financial corruption exits in army. What exists is a deserving nepotism and that too at the very highest level for the sake of loyalty, friendship and determination to serve the nation. Believe it.
I like Musharraf's personality as a person and his diplomatic skills at the highest international forums. He wanted to provide a visionary leadership to this country but unfortunately somwe segments oin the country wanted the opposite, which the finallHe is a fan, like me, of Mustafa Kamal Pasha. I love him for his sincerity, courage and attitude. So I am his big time fan you know.
I wrote a love letter to General Musharraf that was published in Dawn and can be read here .
And hey i didn't get what you meant by ghosts and ID thing. Perhaps reading too much fiction affects our thought processes.
Link to the letter i wrote for General Musharraf.
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-…
Aamir Mughal says: Only an Inhuman Soul can term Ayub’s Dictatorship a “Benevolent Dictatorship” in view of Ethnic Killings ordered by his own son Captain Gauhar Ayub. I wonder if you have read about 22 Families and Gandhara Affairs and why are you forgetting U2 Planes and US Air Base in Badabeer.
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It actually depends on how you approach history and in what version of history you believe in.
Shamyl says: August 2, 2010 at 2:25 am @ Nazia No financial corruption exits in army.
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Just a glimpse of Mismanagement, Treason and Embezzlement under the nose of GHQ from 12 Oct 1999 to 2008: General Musharraf's Bureaucracy under PCOed Judiciary. http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/05/general-…
Mughal
If shamyl like characters take quran in their hand and try to convince me that there is no corruption in senior management of army and at time of Musharf ,I wont believe him , as I am witnessing all what Musahrf and his next clones have done /are doing to this nation.
It is not matter of million dolar corruption but matter is reaching to billions and billions and less than it these generals dont compromise.
Nation is crying on zardari's expenditures of foreign tour.I was always surprised that why expenditures like that of serving generals never come on record.They as group do same kind of acts since the time of Musharraf.Choice of expensive hotels,heavy TA/DA lavish 3Ds(dine, drink and dancers) are always mandatory services which make available to most of generals along with their families and group friends.SOs of generals are all time busy in their foreign trips like that.
That is why I always said I am living in land of Generals where kick backs and embezzlement of Generals are vanished from the scene as it is not happened.
That is the reason Ayesha sidiqque couldnt reach to depth of real corruption stories of army mafia.
And above this shamyl like characters are transmitted in Net world to misguide the people.
I have given him little hint of creation of bahria town.
But he is giving me lectures of management of runaway leaders.
trust me Shamyl I am not angering any body by discussing the corruption of most ever green characters of Pakistan.
If you told me that PM team is fair or zardari hires honest office under presidency.I would take take some time to reply you as I need sources to confirm your point of views.
But I cant shut my voice for scenes which I am seeing for many years.
I give you another hint.
I worked as an consultant in Engineering firm for some time.It was one of lucrative job which could have turned my living status more than thoughts and capacity.
But the day I realized that I was working for those projects which were setting by embezzled money of govt and people are using my contacts more than my technical experiences.
I had quit it without giving second thought.
Two generals at that time funded different projects in this engineering company As they were in service so they used fake or covered IDs to facilitate these projects which is in billions.
I can give you name of one general .he was General Amjad former MI chief at the time of Musharraf I think.
He was interested and still interested for setting oil refinery in Karachi port.
The area of installation was land of Pakistan steel mill.Shuakat Aziz had given them assurance of land .But then I heard that Ch iftihkar interference had disturbed their dreams.
So where I got proof of such stories which mughal always demand from me.
I know very well that I am risking my personal security in this way too.
But This is my way of doing jihad to at least reveal what I see on the basis of my personal experience.
I have marked my grave in my homeland and want to die with honor and bury in my soil wihtout any regrets of showing cowardice to visible atrocities of wrong people.
You are very right that sovereignty is only for Allah but as humans sometime we start considering our selves as little gods to those whom are not blessed by nature.
So I am only pointing those people who are trying to be god father.
Nazia says: August 2, 2010 at 11:50 pm I can give you name of one general .he was General Amjad former MI chief at the time of Musharraf I think.
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Correct and reality of General Amjad, his so called NAB and Co.: Martial Law, NRO, NAB & Across The Board Accountability.
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/11/martial-…
@ Nazia
"But the day I realized that I was working for those projects which were setting by embezzled money of govt and people are using my contacts more than my technical experiences.
I had quit it without giving second thought."
This act of yours is laudable.
Regarding General Amjad, I would like to repeat what I said earlier that no one is guilty until proven in the court of law. I can quote you a thousand examples of generals and lower ranked officers' honesty, sincerity and commitment towards this country and dedication to serve the nation. But instead I would like to mention as Shahzad Roy says in his song "laga reh" that 'Nek Wo Hai Jissay Moka Nahi Mila'.
If reported through proper channel, any serving army officer can be taken to the task for his or her personal acts of perversion.Still, corruption is at its lowest levels when we talk about army as an institution.
Judiciary occupies a coveted 6th place in the list of Pakistan's most corrupt institutions. Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhary, himself a PCO judge under General Musharraf(an enlightened leader), has many misplaced priorities. His obstructed focus is on lesser evils. Judiciary occupies a coveted 6th place in the list of Pakistan's most corrupt
institutions. But he is not questioning the corruption that prevails in his very own instituion under his very own nose.
What brazen facet deceit.
Nazia says: – July 31, 2010 at 6:56 pm Jinnah’s dream was actually destroyed by military men Nazia says: – July 27, 2010 at 11:42 such ethnic conflicts were highlighted by miltiary establishment to create turbulence among masses.
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Pir sahib again contested the 1953 elections and was elected as member but the opposition of Ayub Khuhro continued, who, although stood disqualified under PRODA, became an important figure to be used at an opportune time. The moment had come as the government wanted to get the One Unit bill passed by Sindh Assembly. The governor dismissed Pirzada government in 1954 and appointed Khuhro as chief minister after removing PRODA restrictions. Khuhro with his iron-hand policies got the One Unit bill passed on Dec 11, 1954. Pir sahib did not vote for One Unit. After the formation of West Pakistan, a United Party was formed to dismember One Unit and Pir sahib by being its secretary made efforts to bring as much support for undoing One Unit as he could, with the result that on Sept 17, 1957 Mr Ghulam Mustafa Bhurgri tabled a resolution against the One Unit, but Ayub Khan who had planned to take power for quite some time, promulgated martial law on Oct 7, 1958, disqualified a large number of politicians including Pir sahib and later formed a king’s party. This was not acceptable to Pir sahib who preferred to stay away from politics till his last. REF: Ghulam Hussain Hidayatullah By Shaikh Aziz http://www.dawn.com/events/pml/review24.htm
Nazia says: – July 31, 2010 at 6:56 pm Jinnah’s dream was actually destroyed by military men
Nazia says: – July 27, 2010 at 11:42 such ethnic conflicts were highlighted by miltiary establishment to create turbulence among masses.
====================
Now read what is main cause of Ethnic Hatred and Ethnic Polarization in Pakistan and mind this was created by the Alleged Founding Fathers of Pakistan: Destruction started when: The creation of One Unit thus destroying the very idea of provincial autonomy and spearheaded by West Pakistani civil and military bureaucrats was imposed in 1954-55 and Balochistan,Sindh and NWFP reduced to political chattels. The Idea of Pakistan-Myth and Reality
Posted: Jun 15, 2010 Tue 05:17 am Agha H Amin http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/78310/47736
Nazia says: – July 31, 2010 at 6:56 pm Jinnah’s dream was actually destroyed by military men Nazia says: – July 27, 2010 at 11:42 such ethnic conflicts were highlighted by miltiary establishment to create turbulence among masses.
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The 1954 One Unit plan was a tactic to achieve the strategic goal of obliterating national identities under the misleading and maliciously unjust slogan of parity and Islamic unity; it was a political extension of the religion-oriented Objectives Resolution. Surprisingly, advocates of the One Unit plan have never demanded parity since Bangladesh’s independence. The One Unit strategy, on paper, did away with nationalities and replaced them with the soulless east and west wings. Remarkably, nothing changed since its abrogation in 1970 because the rulers’ attitudes remained unchanged. WHOSE PROGENY MISUSE OF ISLAM BY MUSLIM ELITE AND PAKISTAN A BRILLIANT ARTIcLE BY MIR M TALPUR Mir Mohammad Ali Talpur has an association with the Baloch rights movement going back to the early 1970s. He can be contacted at mmatalpur@gmail.com http://www.chowk.com/interacts/17460
Nazia says: – July 31, 2010 at 6:56 pm Jinnah’s dream was actually destroyed by military men Nazia says: – July 27, 2010 at 11:42 such ethnic conflicts were highlighted by miltiary establishment to create turbulence among masses.
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The Excellent Company of Jinnah [all Muslim Leaguers and Alleged Founding Fathers] Nothing changes. In 1954, forty-two years ago, when the One Unit issue was to be voted upon in the provincial assembly, the then chief minister, Mohammed Ayub Khuhro, in cahoots with his minister Pir Ali Mohammed Rashdi, realising that the honourable Mirs of Talpur would vote against their proposal, acted. Mir Ali Ahmed Talpur was arrested on a trumped-up charge, Mir Rasul Bakhsh Talpur managed to escape and hide, and the smallest and gentlest of the three, Mir Ghulam Ali Talpur, was bodily picked up and bundled off on the back of a camel to Mitthi, the same old Mitthi in the Thar desert. The judiciary triumphs-V
Ardeshir Cowasjee Week Ending: 18 July 1996 Issue: 02/29 http://www.lib.virginia.edu/area-studies/SouthAsi…
Nazia says: – July 31, 2010 at 6:56 pm Jinnah’s dream was actually destroyed by military men Nazia says: – July 27, 2010 at 11:42 such ethnic conflicts were highlighted by miltiary establishment to create turbulence among masses.
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Real Face of the so-called Iron Man of Sindh i.e Khan Bahadur Ayub Khoro: One Unit: a dark chapter By Shaikh Aziz January 12, 200 3http://dawn.com.pk/weekly/dmag/archive/030112/dmag13.htm
This was the end of October 1954. Pirzada Abdus Sattar headed the then Sindh government who resented vehemently. Ghulam Mohammed tried to persuade Pirzada, but to no avail. He was aware of the sentiments of the people and did not want to put his political career at stake. But then, there were other options open to Ghulam Mohammed. One was to manipulate the Public Representatives Disqualification Order (PRODA), which had axed Mohammed Ayub Khuhro from politics for four years. He had been a chief minister of Sindh. A shrewd and sturdy politician from Larkana, he was known for his stubbornness and skillful playing of the political arena. Ghulam Mohammed’s moves worked well for him. He got an assurance from Khuhro that he had his ways and would get the One Unit bill passed by the Sindh Assembly. A deal was struck that in exchange of the One Unit bill, Khuhro would be pardoned of the implications of the PRODA, made Chief Minister of Sindh and a place in the future federal cabinet, in which he was later convicted on charges of corruption by Gen Ayub Khan. On Nov 18, 1954, Pir Ali Mohammed Rashdi, the right-hand man of Khuhro announced the scheme of One Unit at a press conference and pledged that any opposition to that would be met with force. Four day later, Prime Minister Mohammed Ali Bogra convened a meeting of Sindh politicians to seek their opinion on the scheme, but no debate was allowed. In the evening, the Prime Minister made a formal announcement on Radio Pakistan that the scheme would be implemented.
Pir Ali Mohammed Rashdi, as a spokesman of Khuhro and the federal government, tried in vain to pacify the agitating people.
Nazia says: – July 31, 2010 at 6:56 pm Jinnah’s dream was actually destroyed by military men Nazia says: – July 27, 2010 at 11:42 such ethnic conflicts were highlighted by miltiary establishment to create turbulence among masses.
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Now about some of the "Ghaddar" i.e. Traitor
Jinnah said: As I had stated before the Muslim League organization requires to be strengthened in Sind and for this purpose, we require workers and funds. Mr. G.M. Syed is doing his very best in this regard.” [Reference: “The Consolidation of Leadership in the Last Phase of the Politics of the All India Muslim League,”Asian Profile, October 1973, p. 313. S.M.M. Qureshi]
On 30 September 1930, when Jinnah came to Karachi to appear in the court in Pir Sibghatullah Shah Pagaro's case and then flew to London for the Round Table Conference, G.M. Sayed hosted a tea party at his old residence at Lovelane, Lyari Nadi. Jinnah, Mohammed Ayub Khuhro, Allama I.I. Kazi, Pir Ali Mohammed Rashdi attended the party. There they discussed the separation movement and a programme was chalked out. Also, G.M. Sayed and other participants requested Jinnah to advocate the case of separation in London and Jinnah responded positively. Pir Ali Mohammed Rashdi later commented that this meeting was the real foundation stone of the separation movement. Again on October 1, 1930, G.M. Sayed, Haji Abdullah Haroon, and Mohammed Ayub Khuhro hosted a dinner in honour of Jinnah and Sir Shahnawaz Bhutto. In his formal address, Jinnah was requested by Khuhro to plead the case of separation and Jinnah assured them of his support. Subash Bose and Saifuddin Kitchelo toured Sindh and they were warmly welcomed and feted by G.M. Sayed in Karachi. This action of Sayed was viewed seriously by the British administration. The situation became aggravated when G.M. Sayed started a tour of Karachi together with Jethmal Parsram, Maulvi Abdul Karim Chishti, and others to launch a mass mobilisation programme. Maps of the subcontinent in which Sindh was included were garlanded. G.M. Sayed wore khaddar clothes and admonished the others to do likewise. Anti-British speeches were also made. During the tour, G.M. Sayed received a message from Mr. Gibson, the then Collector of Karachi, to cancel the tour but G.M. Sayed did not obey his order and continued. The Path Not Taken; G. M. Syed
The Path not Taken, G. M. Syed Vision and Valour in Politics By Khadim Hussain Soomro http://www.scribd.com/doc/29074946/The-Path-Not-T…
Nazia says: – July 31, 2010 at 6:56 pm Jinnah’s dream was actually destroyed by military men Nazia says: – July 27, 2010 at 11:42 such ethnic conflicts were highlighted by miltiary establishment to create turbulence among masses.
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Worst kind of "Waderaas" [Sir Ghulam Hussain Hidayatullah] were with Jinnah in Sindh in Muslim League: G. M. Sayed, President of the Sind Provincial Muslim League during 1943-5, was also indignant that the Muslim League High Command constantly supported those whom he considered reactionaries like Sir Ghulam Hussain Hidayatullah. He had also seen and been moved by the destitution and squalor in which the haris of Sind lived, and his bitter outburst was:
Do not forget that Islamic society actually in existence is that in which religious head is an ignorant Mulla, spiritual leader an immoral Pir, political guide a power intoxicated feudal lord and whose helpless members are subjected to all the wordly [sic] forces of money and influence. If the really important question about the abolition of Jagirdari and Zamindari system crops up or the prohibition of intoxicants becomes the issue of the day, what would not a rich Jagirdar or an aristocratic member of a sophisticated club do to use his influence, as also that of the Mulla and the Pir, to resist this threat to what is essentially an immoral and un-Islamic cause? Jinnah himself had thundered against the exploitation of the common people by landlords and capitalists: ‘There are millions and millions of our people who hardly get one meal a day. Is this civilization? Is this the aim of Pakistan?. . . If that is the idea of Pakistan I would not have it."' He had encouraged men like Abul Hashim and G. M. Sayed to use their crusading spirit for organizing the Muslim masses under the League flag. REF: Muslim League — its role and organization By Khalid Bin Sayeed December 30, 2006 http://www.dawn.com/events/pml/review22.htm
Nazia says: – July 31, 2010 at 6:56 pm Jinnah’s dream was actually destroyed by military men Nazia says: – July 27, 2010 at 11:42 such ethnic conflicts were highlighted by miltiary establishment to create turbulence among masses.
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Now read What the "Ghaddar" did for Pakistan
To its left is written in bold letters: ‘Pakistan Resolution Passed By Sindh Legislative Assembly on 3rd March 1943 Moved By Mr G M Sayed.’ Along the assembly line By Peerzada Salman Sunday, 02 May, 2010
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-…
Nazia says: – July 31, 2010 at 6:56 pm Jinnah’s dream was actually destroyed by military men Nazia says: – July 27, 2010 at 11:42 such ethnic conflicts were highlighted by miltiary establishment to create turbulence among masses.
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More Ghaddars
I wonder if you have read Facts are Facts by Khan Abdul Wali Khan [the proceedings of Hyderabad Tribunal Case], the tribunal was formed by one and only and Asli Tay Wadda i.e. Bhutto Senior and that Tribunal was abolished by a Military Dictator Zia] Facts Are Facts An Untold Story of India's Partition Khan Abdul Wali Khan http://www.apnaorg.com/books/english/wali-khan-1/…
Monsoon floods kill up to 800, affects 1m Updated at: 1745 PST, Saturday, July 31, 2010 [Jang] – Apart from any kind of Political Difference "Human Life" is sacred! Today it was somebody else tomorrow it could be me. The life is long and completes its circle. Pakistani Intelligentsia should offer a Collective Funeral Prayers on Decency, Mercy, Consciousness and Compassion because not single TV Channel has stop its "Routine Musical Programs/Comedy Program" even now when Millions are homeless and more than 1000 are dead in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. They don't have funds for Boats and Motor Boats to save life in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, yet they have funds to distribute in Bar Councils. No Funds for Boats and Motor Boats but what's this: Defence budget at a glance Saturday, 19 Jun, 2010 http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-…
F16(s) from USA could have also been enough to compensate for the losses in this flood.
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Pakistan is paying $1.4 billion for the jets and an additional $1.3 billion for the up gradation of its existing fleet. F-16 jets land in Pakistan Saturday, 31 Jul 2010 http://tribune.com.pk/story/23896/us-to-hand-over…
And that "Bloody" Smiling and Charming Face has the audacity to indulge in the most obscene and bizarre orgy of spending [despite more than 1000 are dead and 400,000 affected by KP]: Security concerns main reason Saturday, July 31, 2010 Zardari team’s visit to cost tons of UK pounds By Murtaza Ali Shah http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id…
When Towns are in ruins our Super Intelligent Rulers instead of rehabilitating the existing Towns, they are building the new one. Why don't they divert these funds to those towns which really need financial help: Zulfikarabad layout finalised By Mohammad Iqbal Khwaja Saturday, 31 Jul, 2010
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-…
Mughal
You have provided the excellent clips of real history of Pakistan which is never found in our official history pages.
You are right that Jinnah first got strength through feudal characters and laid the foundation stone of such moves to control the Baluchistan politics through power of gun.
Jinnah and his team even his sister received what they did to poor people who were suffered due to this unjustified division of lands as per choices of opportunists.
Look mughal
these feudal characters and strong business community always stick to national interests as parasites as long as they are toward gain side only.
It is job of poltical system to make checks on them for reversing the flow of gains toward national channels.Just as india did in her side.
There is no ideal democracy in India but continuity of process of democracy has lessened the after effects of feudalism and militarism in their system but we as receiver of same inheritance, give strength to such factors which are still reason of our downfall as nation.
Our miltiary rulers ruined all moves of democratic system which we have inherited from British and hindu management at the time of separation of Pak/India
Zardari and his team is now secure as said by our PM after giving three year extensions to kiyani so who cares for people of Pakistan.
Zardari is not here to please people of Pakistan but for supporting militarism in state matters.
He is doing fine so what is need of saving people from drowning.More we will see scenes of destruction and causality number more PPP govt would get aide from rich friends.
Another opportunity of getting funds by creating scenes of self pity.
That is their price only.
Nazia says: August 1, 2010 at 5:39 pm excellent clips of real history of Pakistan which is never found in our official history pages.
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More: It is not untrue that Ghulam Mohammad was behind the posters plastered all over Karachi, which declared that the real ruler of Pakistan was Liaquat Ali Khan and the Quaid-i-Azam’s position as the constitutional head of state was purely ceremonial. These posters also extolled Liaquat’s abilities through slogans. Ref: EXCERPT: Unravelling of a state July 13, 2008 http://dawn.com.pk/weekly/books/archive/080713/bo…
Nazia says: August 1, 2010 at 5:39 pm excellent clips of real history of Pakistan which is never found in our official history pages.
==============
Censorship at the hands of Founding Fathers of Pakistan: Censorship in Pakistan has a long history and its first victim being the founder of the nation Mohammad Ali Jinnah. On 11 August 1947 when he delivered his first speech “You are free, you are free to go to your temples…..” before the Constituent Assembly; within hours some shadowy figures became active and “tried to have some secularist passages of the speech blacked out in the press” (Press In Chains P. 35-39) But luckily the then editor Dawn Altaf Hussain came in their way and threatened to go to Quaid. So the attempt to muzzle Qauid’s voice failed. The second major attack was the closure of illustrious Civil & Military Gazette(C&MG) in 1949 after it carried a story by its Delhi correspondent that Pakistan and India are devising a formula to partition Kashmir. Pakistan denied the report so the paper published the denial, regretted the report and fired the correspondent. But on 6th May 1949, 16 West Pakistan newspapers carried a joint editorial by the title of “TREASON” and asked government to suspend the (C&MG) publication “for a suitable period.” The East Pakistani editors “refused to join the chorus” and the government closed the paper for a period of six month and the paper where once writers like Rudyard Kipling (1882-1887) had worked never recovered from the closure. REFERENCE: Press in Chains: History of media gagging in Pakistan March 14, 2009 by Manzoor Ali http://thoughtlines.wordpress.com/2009/03/14/pres…
Mughal
I hardly rely on history pages but what I carefully heard the real experiences of our seniors and old people which is always showed different perceptions as I found in my books.
Our professional responsibilities hardly allows us to go in search of deep history.
I know very well that western culture invested lot on digging and storing real history so that they got conclusive clues of human development but this attitude is absent in our side.
Recently I read some old myths and its real background in your blog.
You would be surprise to hear that I heard most of them, from my elders in the way which was presented there by author.
As a child it was very confusing for me to match all what we read in our course books.
As elders when we expressed same as you did but people start calling us traitor or non muslim even knowing my background well.
So I maximum avoid discussing history events as people become violent after hearing like that and they have strong trust on printed distorted history provided in our course books and still doing same.
You see this is way Shamyl is replying you that people cant see the long term aftereffects of decision makers which might be deviated by judgmental error.
he is ignoring that all moves are forward with some margin of judgmental errors.This is part of each planing that some disturbance can be noted.
But when same decisions create catastrophe results on system and harm the inhabitants then such acts come in the range of national crimes.
National crimes are punishable offense in any reasonable state.
If policy makers accept their mistake and try to revamp it then we should give them space or benefits but when we see that all game plan is done on personal basis and profits,then it hurts and matters.Arrogant attitude of polciy makers on ignoring their duties is just like putting salt on the wounds of inflicted people.
That is the reason we distorted history.
I give you latest updates of some distortion.
Nowshwere and minawali deprived civilian area have been flooded to save miltiary bases.Nobody is daring to accept this but try to project the Pak fauj services as great piece of work.
I am not very sure but I found some serious clues that airblue crash was done due to instrumentation failure of flight which probably was affected due to new installation of air force set up near Islamabad area.
This was same kind of installation which just a month ago crashed all the net wireless services of witribe, wateen and mobilink in Islamabad just a month ago for almost 30 hrs.
They got their frequency back to service after meeting with senior air force officers..
Pilot was unable to trace the reason of malfunctioning of his instrumentation and that is why couldnt maintain height which was mandatory for each flight while moving to margalla hills.
Air blue belongs to family of abssiads whose majority are serving /retired generals and brigadiers
Lets see how investigation would come out but I have no good hope for it.
So
@ Shara Nasheen, The issue of Northern Ireland had political dimensions intertwined with terrorism so was the case with Yasser Arafat a terrorist turned politician. The Taliban on the other hand have no political aspirations or social grievances. The do not want greater provincial autonomy or more economic independence. They cannot coexist with our political setup i.e. democracy! By holding peace talks we will give them the legitimacy of a stakeholder which will be ironic.
@ Dr Alvi the statistics provided by Pakistan body count are disputed and not accurate at all, the drone attacks have been instrumental in targeting many high-profile terrorists, and the civilian casualties are often exaggerated as there in no method of verifying them
So Karachi is burning again, at the hands of its own citizens
Assassins associated with MQM had been on target killing spree for a while. Looks like finally some one got bold enough and one of the top associates of MQM mafia was gunned down.
In a retallation several poor workers driving minibusses and busses and trucks have been killed and several vehicles have been torched.
The way MQM is serving justice is quit schocking. Absocnding party leader of MQM, has been very vocal about terrorism, but when it comes to Karachi and Hyderabad he closes his eyes, just because the perpetrators are his own goons.
کراچی میں فائرنگ میں انتیس افراد ہلاک
آخری وقت اشاعت: منگل 3 اگست 2010 , 20:17 GMT 01:17 PST
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2010/08/100802…
کچھ عینی شاہدین کا کہنا ہے کہ حملہ آوروں نے جو ایک موٹر سائیکل اور سفید رنگ کی کرولا کار میں سوار تھے فائرنگ سے پہلے اللہ اکبر کا نعرہ لگایا۔ پولیس نے شبہ ظاہر کیا ہے کہ واقعے میں کالعدم لشکر جھنگوی ملوث ہے۔
کراچی کی ایک مذہبی جماعت مجلس وحدت مسلمین کے رہنماؤں علامہ حسن ظفر نقوی اور محمد مہدی نے حکومت سے مطالبہ کیا ہے کہ وہ کالعدم مذہبی تنظیموں کے خلاف کراچی میں آپریشن کرے اور دہشت گردوں اور اُن کے سر پرستوں کوجلد سے جلد گرفتار کرے۔
رہنماؤں کا کہنا تھا کے اگر حکومت سانحہ نشتر پارک ،سانحہ عاشورہ، چہلم اور داتا دربار میں ملوث دہشت گروں کو گرفتار کر لیتی اور ان کے پشت پناہی کرنے والے عوامل کو سامنے لے آتی تو اس طرح کے واقعات پیش نہیں آتے۔
دوسری جانب وفاقی وزیر داخلہ رحمان ملک نے سینیٹ میں بیان دیتے ہوئے کہا کہ ایم کیو ایم کے رکن صوبائی اسمبلی حیدر رضا کو کالعدم تنظیم سپاہ صحابہ پاکستان کی جانب سے دھمکیاں مل رہی تھیں۔ ان کا کہنا تھا کہ ان دھمکیوں کی اطلاع سندھ حکومت اور گورنر سندھ ڈاکٹر عشرت العباد کو دے دی گئی تھی۔
Mughal
kindly solve this intellectual mystery under this link as I am unable to understand what is actually going on in Karachi.
SSP chief meets Sindh CM
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-…
Was Razahaider a standby waste of mqm who sacrificed like that?
He was in mqm area in a city( where mqm is ruling for last 15 years), under protection of mqm guard, attending the funeral of mqm people and surrounded by mqm workers.So who know his whereabouts better than mqm people.
if I am a Taliban or ANP follower then why I pick low profile character like him instead of dr Sattar ,Babar ghouri(the zardari of mqm in corruption style),hyder Abbas rizvi(Equivalent to caliber of sharmeela farooqi) like mouthpieces.
kiling of Habib jalib, son of mian iftikhar and then razahaider .
Where we are heading now.
One killing of raza haider ensued killing of 50 human beings mostly belong to pukhtoon background and loss of million rupees assets of working class of Pakistan.
I am not confirmed but such kind of ethnic killings start in Karachi when establishment want to divert the attention of media and public from some serious issue.
Nazia says: – August 3, 2010 at 11:30 pm Mughal kindly solve this intellectual mystery under this link as I am unable to understand what is actually going on in Karachi.
SSP chief meets Sindh CM
===========
Deoabndi Fazlu is an Ally of PPP:) Mystrey Solved:)
Mughal
Your rapid judgment is not exact answer of my query.
I am really impressed how mualana liduanavi is challenging state authority in front of media men and such daring overconfident claims of this Mualana should be praised.
For the last months he was claiming again and again in front of whole media and people of Pakistan that give him single proof his involvement in any terrorist activity .
Nobody is responding him on what reasons he and his followers are put on top in this blame game.
Each day he brings the name of political people whom he is supporting for many years.They belong to all parties.
He has much better personality than mqm people who as a ruling party is breaking the record of crying like opposition child.
It was so disgusting to see that a ruling party of Karachi is unable to maintain law and order situation in their own city where they always claim that they secure record breaking votes from such constituencies.
Nazia says: August 4, 2010 at 12:47 am Mughal Your rapid judgment is not exact answer of my query.
============
It is answered in this post: I wonder what General Babar and Bhutto were thinking: What was theISI role in Afghanistan in the period 1974-77? It was a top secret affair and the ISI had no role. The secret was shared between Mr Bhutto, myself, Aziz Ahmad and the then Army Chief Tikka Khan. This was for obvious reasons. The Foreign Office could with, nonchalance deny if raised at un or any other forum. 41. Who were the pioneers of the anti-Daud Afghan resistance? These were Ustad Rabbani, Hikmatyar, Ahmad Shah Masood and a host of others who came to Pakistan after October 1973.
Major General (Retd) Naseerullah Khan Babar, Scandals & Shenanigans
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/06/major-ge…
Shamyl
you are just looking me sharmeela farooqi of Musharf and sometime give me glimpse of Dr nirgas ashiq awan.
This job for Musahrf was once taken by kashmala but she had quit this job after seeing true acts of his bravery,his runaway status.
You say
This act of yours is laudable.
There is nothing laudable in my act as it had negligible effect on the system/company as my status was only a common person.
General amjad is still following his oil refinery deal with the same company .He is recognized as amiable social worker in elite group of Islamabad.
So corruption development is linked with acts of authoritative people and wrong doings of junior officers create minute effects on the performance of any institute and easily can be checked if bosses are honest.
You say
Still, corruption is at its lowest levels when we talk about army as an institution.
wrong very wrong.
they do group corruption now.
Generals even now feel no shame to shake hands with captain for facilitating their game plans of corruption.
You claim
I am educated enough and sensitive enough to know and experience the damages caused by the dictatorships and political uncertainty.
Then you declare that you hate zia but love musahrf as his true lover.
In past posts you are lecturing us to see the things in borader picture.
Now I give you broader picture.
Zia and Mussarf are opposite side of same coin or you can see new type of wines in old bottle.
Agendas come from Washington and they were handpicked by US as their blue boys.
There is no other capability hidden on them which made them to rule Pakistan under dictatorship.
That is the reason Musharraf couldnt think of staying in Pakistan after seat had been snatched from him through same powers who are now behind kiyani.They are our balloon boys to whom air is fed from US compressor..
You are short in memory that he was Musharraf and his ISI team that who strengthened MMA in KhberPK through fake elections.
That was same MMA who spread the plague of taliabnsiation from hidden areas to all over Pakistan close to our homes.
General Ithasham zameer got billions through this game.
Now he is running many companies in islamabad with fake coverup.
Dont take 180 degree turn by indulging judiciary in this game of power.
They were just unarmed pawns of establishment.
Your loving general had tried his best to prove that ch iftikhar was corrupt but people were in mood of giving him second chance.
Judges are trying to erect their image so lets give them some space.At this moment it is only active pillar of state that is doing some favor to public matters.
I disagree with your comment. Again you are exploring conspiracy theories and wandering like a nomad. The broader picture is that Pakistan army has played a vital role in safeguarding the interests of this country and its people. It is the most professional and well organised institution in the country.It is also the largest employer in the country. All efforts to malign Pak Army are bound to
end up in failure becuase there are no real basis behind malafide accusations and conspiracies.Dictatorships and army's forced entry into politics is altogether a different story necessitated by spirit of sacrifice and honoring national commitments.
As i said earlier that head of a regime in a country takes certain decisions that sometimes are not error free. But one should also give the credit where it is due.
You can go on and on discussing personal and private matters of Generals one by one but it is going to prove nothing.
General Ehtesham Zameer, an enlightened man, hails from a very well to do and intelluctual family. He is also an excellent administrator and highly decorated officer. One should not be envious of successful high achievers and blame them without any concrete proof.
It is another matter that he later on developed some professional diferences with General Musharraf and the fifth columnists tried to sensationalize and fantasize his activities. I bet you can never prove in any court of law that he has accumulated personal wealth and assets beyond his known sources of income. There is no offence of willful default commited by him during his service.
I have no love lost for judiciary but since you mentioned Ch Iftikhar so I had to touch upon the prevailing and known corruption in that active but rogue institution.
And yes when judges mistakenly perform their duty you say they are "doing a favor" to public matters but when the army professionally and efficiently perform its duty you say "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" just like that wolf's foul cry which i heard in a folk tale when i was a child. A cry that is so absurd that no sane mind would believe in.
Shamyl says: August 4, 2010 at 2:26 am General Ehtesham Zameer, an enlightened man, hails from a very well to do and intelluctual family. He is also an excellent administrator and highly decorated officer.
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Now that was really a "Breaking Story" now read what he has said himself as to how he helped Musharraf in Official Capacity by Rigging an Election and what not, enjoy the show of Dawn news as well: DAWN NEWS CHANNEL Investigative Program ON MEHRANGATE SCANDAL, Late Mr Jatoi was one of the beneficiary [DAWN News TV Investigation Report with Masood Sharif – 6th January 2008 http://www.sharifpost.com/2008/01/06/dawn-news-tv…
Shamyl says: August 4, 2010 at 2:26 am General Ehtesham Zameer, an enlightened man, hails from a very well to do and intelluctual family. He is also an excellent administrator and highly decorated officer.
====================
General Ehtesham Zameer, an enlightened man, – ISLAMABAD: The main wheeler and dealer of the ISI during the 2002 elections, the then Maj-Gen Ehtesham Zamir, now retired, has come out of the closet and admitted his guilt of manipulating the 2002 elections, and has directly blamed Gen Musharraf for ordering so. Talking to The News, the head of the ISI’s political cell in 2002, admitted manipulating the last elections at the behest of President Musharraf and termed the defeat of the King’s party, the PML-Q, this time “a reaction of the unnatural dispensation (installed in 2002).” Zamir said the ISI together with the NAB was instrumental in pressing the lawmakers to join the pro-Musharraf camp to form the government to support his stay in power. Responding to a question regarding corruption cases that were used as pressure tactics on lawmakers, he said: “Yes! This tool was used, not only by the ISI. The NAB was also involved in this exercise.” REF: Sunday, February 24, 2008 [The News International AND Jang] details: Zardari Specific Judiciary/Accountability & News Reports/Press Clippings. http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/03/zardari-…
NOTE: I hope you remember what Quran and Hadith have to say about Bribery, Theft, Equal Justice for all [across the board accountability] and Fasad Fil Arz or should I quote the relevant Quranic Verse and Hadith.
@ A.Mughal
Whatever General Ehtesham Zameer said on media was a result of his differences with Musharraf. Whatever statements he made was in his personal capacity not official. And i am not going to discuss each and every statement of each and every retired general. If you compare the amount recovered by NAB under General Musharraf's enlightened moderate rule then you would discover that the Bureau has recovered the looted money from corrupt public office holders more than what Anti-Corruption and FIA (combined) recovered since the birth of this country. And it is not shocking to see how the politicians made NAB a maligned institution as soon as the General honorably handed over power to them. Now they are filling NAB with Jiyalas.
Shamyl says: – August 4, 2010 at 9:27 pm @ A.Mughal If you compare the amount recovered by NAB under General Musharraf’s enlightened moderate rule
====================
Please don't because I was in service and I know what happened and what about written off loans in Billions of those who are habitual defaulters and known thieves. List presented in National Assembly is in the link below, enjoy: Zardari Specific Judiciary/Accountability & News Reports/Press Clippings. http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/03/zardari-…
Aamir Mughal says: "Please don’t because I was in service and I know what happened and what about written off loans in Billions of those who are habitual defaulters and known thieves."
I am referring to sheep and you are talking about hens. I am talking about the money recovered and you are pointing towards loans written off.
Shamyl says: August 5, 2010 at 1:25 am I am referring to sheep and you are talking about hens. I am talking about the money recovered and you are pointing towards loans written off.
====================
Yes I know what are you talking about and I know how much was recovered and how much was written off. I have watched and witnessed all such fraud during my service.
No you don't seem to understand what I am saying. And yes I was in service too and I myself witnessed all the honesty, efficiency and sincerity of NAB in recovering the looted money.
Shamyl says: August 5, 2010 at 2:50 am No you don’t seem to understand what I am saying. all the honesty, efficiency and sincerity of NAB in recovering the looted money.
==============
Honesty like this? What about probing Mehran Bank above all why did Amjad protected his batch mate Aftab Sherpao??? Would you tell that the so-called Honest Regime of General Musharraf accepted Worst Rascals from every political party to run his govt.? Do you call this honesty? NAB was just an Institution to create a Political Class/Party to serve the Military Junta: let me give you a glimpse of Honesty:
"quote"
And this takes me back to Pervez Musharraf’s first visit to the US after his coup. At a meeting with a group of journalists among whom I was present, my dear and much lamented friend Tahir Mirza, then the Dawn correspondent, asked Musharraf why he was not acting against Lashkar-e Tayba and Jaish-e Muhammad. Musharraf went red in the face and shot back, “They are not doing anything in Pakistan. They are doing jihad outside.” "LIES"of General [R] Pervez Musharraf, Sharifs & Talibans. http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/03/liesof-g…
Shamyl says: August 5, 2010 at 2:50 am No you don’t seem to understand what I am saying. all the honesty, efficiency and sincerity of NAB in recovering the looted money.
==================
I understand very well and I learned during 10 years of my Government Service that "Khurpa" are always Liars: Lt. Gen (Retd) Shahid Aziz too is a relative of President General Pervez Musharraf. A fact Gen Musharraf has himself mentioned in his memoir 'In the Line of Fire' (page 121). Gen Musharraf dubbed Shahid Aziz as the centre for the counter coup operation in 1999 after whose success General Musharraf took over. One More Multifaceted Fraud: Lt . General (R) Shahid Aziz – EX-Chairman NAB. http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/12/one-more…
Shamyl says: August 5, 2010 at 2:50 am No you don’t seem to understand what I am saying. all the honesty, efficiency and sincerity of NAB in recovering the looted money.
=============
I don't know about you but I saw how NAB was formed [worst kind notorious persons were appointed by General Amjad himself in 1999/200] and I was in Service when NAB was being ORGANIZED saw those who formed it by committing this Treason: It was General Mahmood, General Aziz, General Ali Jan Orakzai, General Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani and General Rafiullah Niazi [Musharraf was in the Air with then then Brigadier Nadeem Taj]Details are in this blog Now read: Alleged Demand For The Trial of NRO Creators.
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/01/alleged-…
Is this you call "Honesty"
Hey guys
Here looks that now you people have started using my vitaman I capsules.
mughal says
Yes I know what are you talking about and I know how much was recovered and how much was written off. I have watched and witnessed all such fraud during my service.
Shamyl says:
No you don’t seem to understand what I am saying. And yes I was in service too and I myself witnessed all the honesty, efficiency and sincerity of NAB in recovering the looted money.
Shamyl
If you spent billions and recover millions than you think that such costly actions are justified.
this is the way our army management make their feasibility report and defense expenditures.
In which countries luxurious cars each cost one crore rupees
are offered to guards of nation for their high time and comfortable life.
The strong men are picked as soldiers and that is why extra ordinary respect is given to their status as country need their strength and sincerity to guard homeland.
People living in luxurious bungalows and easy life cant be fit for this miltiary job.
Now you can probe the biography of all generals in last 30 years.90% are running business ventures.Where they got his fund, you people should know it better than me as you worked indirectly close to them.
Dont push me to swallow fly after seeing it.
Nazia says: – August 5, 2010 at 3:17 pm Hey guys Here looks that now you people have started using my vitaman I capsules.
mughal says Yes I know what are you talking about and I know how much was recovered and how much was written off. I have watched and witnessed all such fraud during my service.
================
Vitamin "I" with Reference and Press Clippings [nobody was taken to court for the damaging news]
ISI is busy phone tapping the journalists so that they can prove that the journalists are funded by RAW, MOSAD, CIA.
But they don't have time to find the people responsible for the ethnic cleansing in Karachi.
Since GEO has been hijacked by MQM, the funeral of the deceased is shown with so much highlight that the viewers would agree with the aftermath killing of innocent bus drivers, Mochis and Shakargandi walas.
Is there any one who has balls to call a spade a spade? or the morals of fake-video-creators only respond to the $$$$$$$$ and publicity????
@amir
[ Dear Shamyl,
In one statement you are referring to “Sovereignty” and what not and in earlier statement you are talking about “what version of history”, please define “Sovereignty” in the light of General Ayub’s permission to the USA to establish Airforce [Reconnaissance Base] on Pakistani Soil. I don’t know how do you define ” “Sovereignty” ]
very well said dude
🙂 I still couldn't understand the "Enlightened Moderation" of Musharraf who was supporting the Deoabandi Anarchy before 811 and even after that:) And this takes me back to Pervez Musharraf’s first visit to the US after his coup. At a meeting with a group of journalists among whom I was present, my dear and much lamented friend Tahir Mirza, then the Dawn correspondent, asked Musharraf why he was not acting against Lashkar-e Tayba and Jaish-e Muhammad. Musharraf went red in the face and shot back, “They are not doing anything in Pakistan. They are doing jihad outside.” “LIES”of General [R] Pervez Musharraf, Sharifs & Talibans. http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/03/liesof-g…
oops:) 911 and what is more amazing that "Fraud like General Mahmod was in USA when all this happened and now please define the "Sovereignty" is in the hands of Allah in the light of this Historical Data:)9 -11 & Said Bahaji: Right under the Nose of Bush, Musharraf and Mahmud.
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/10/9-11-sai…
Shamyl
You are one of dedicated employee of army and rightly picked for this job which you are doing.
Really in this time of depression after seeing disasters on national level . your comments give me uncontrollable smile .
Thanks for giving me such moments and assuring me that why our generals are unable to reach the reality that they are corrupt from the depth of their soul .
Because you people are here to increase their moral strength what ever they pick for themselves.
You are giving us extra ordinary observation about Gen Ithisam zameer.
you say
Whatever General Ehtesham Zameer said on media was a result of his differences with Musharraf. Whatever statements he made was in his personal capacity not official.
By the way are you sure he was general of Pakistan strongest intelligence group, a loving buddy of Musharraf.
Did he need more portfolio than above in which his statements is considered unnoticed.
Is he is some kind of duffer house wife who if gets angry with husband , get no time to curse him in front of his enemies.
Such statements if given in some civilized country can charged any official but this is miltiary land so all ex army men are free to speak what ever crime they did in their uniform.
That is why people like you are booked to justify their illegitimacy which are basically criminal offense.
Gen zameer and Gen alvi(murdered in Bahria town) are close relatives.They both are resident of bahrai town where expensive land were gifted to them by malik riaz on the orders of Musharf.
They both were accomplice of Musharf in strengthening taliabn network in our boundaries .
Alvi in drunk state, revealed sensitive information in front of foreign journalist about double games of Musahrf and tariq majeed and that is why he was killed by same agency which was once headed by zameer.
Mughal
Vitamin "I" with Reference and Press Clippings [nobody was taken to court for the damaging news]
I again say that it is not my job as an ordinary civilian to harm any body or bring him/her to court.
Oh sure I am responsible of my acts and my duties which I am doing well.
I might show over reaction on the wrong doings of others but I know limits of rights and duties in professional careers.
If one is criminally wrong on the line of duty he/she be projected in the same way instead of presenting him/her as lady of state or as national hero.
Op-ed: For whom the drone tolls Posted by Teeth Maestro July 22, 2010
============
US Army begins relief missions in Pakistan By SHERIN ZADA (AP) – 20 minutes ago http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM…
Good corps Vs bad president.
this should be theme of present situation where people are more interested in point securing other than services.
Now at this situation you can judge what is the exact reason of down fall of political group and strengthening of militarism in Pakistan.
PPP is proving efficiently that democracy is surely a name of revenge and they are taking it well with the people of Pakistan.
Muhgal
Vitamin “I” with Reference and Press Clippings [nobody was taken to court for the damaging news]
In Might is Right phenomena in any society, people should be used to of living on least standard of living
Nobody can do anything if all state functionaries have decided to join hands in corruption race.
PM by giving 3 years extension to COAS has secured his seat along with presidency.So they all have secured their position by in-securing the foundation of Pakistan.
you either use Vitamin I or Vitamin C&P or feel proud to be jiyala of PPP,or even such words coming out from majority of Pakistan as mentioned in this report
Zardari's Katrina
Why is Pakistan’s president junketing while his people drown?
BY FATIMA BHUTTO | AUGUST 4, 2010
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/08/04/…
Situation would only change if people on top will be able to reverse the phrase as Right should be Might in national building process instead of increasing status of individuals.
I have tried to do something: Help the poor victims of Floods in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa & Balochistan. http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/08/help-poo…
It's not much but it's better than nothing and do read the commentary on "Charming President and Chain Smoking COAS"