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Shaheed or Halak ? – Ghazi Abdul Rashid

Ghazi Abdul RasheedEver since the afternoon of the faithful day when in between the intense fighting at the Lal Masjid, the Pakistan Army victoriously announced the death of the head militant of Lal Masjid Maulana Ghazi Abdul Rashid. Watching the news reports come through on all news channels I did notice that everyone was refraining to tag his death as a Shahdat. For many non-Muslims reading this article, it might seem to be a trivial issue but to a Muslim it means a world of a difference. A simple naming terminology is of no consequence to the soul in this world but it means a phenomenal difference in life-here-after. Quite simply its a decision to be made by Allah for him on the day of the Judgment.

A shaheed is a title that is given to a Muslim after his death, if he died during the fulfillment of a religious commandment. For a moment lets forget the political issues surrounding the crisis, coming to the root of the issue it was Ghazi Abdul Rashid who was defending the integrity of Islam challenging the ineffectiveness of the government in implementing the sharia law hence allowing a progressive degradation of our society. Without doubt Right or Wrong Maulana Shazi Abdul Rashid was defending his place of worship and was fulfilling his religious duties in this process.

Shaheed is a title for a Muslim when he dies for Islam While on the other hand the aggressors (Pakistan Army) were overwhelmingly attacking the mosque to the extent of destroying a large portion of the property throughout the compound. Hence can easily be labeled as aggressors against Islam, which is probably the highest crime for a Muslim. The jawans may be following order but it must be remembered that if one of the jawans were to loose his life in battle against Islam cannot be labeled as a Shaheed simply because he was a Muslim.

I share with you an interesting email I received by Mr. M Javed Iqbal who portrays a very compelling argument, which actually also got me thinking about this important issue. I quote…

During the attack on Lal Masjid and Madarsah Hafsa a question that was repeatedly raised was ‘ Who is “Shaheed” and who is “Halak”.’

In my opinion the distinction is crystal clear. The mistake and mischief lies with the initiator. Who started knocking down masajid in the capital of Islamic Republic of Pakistan? If I am traveling and somebody open fires on me, I have a right to defend myself and fire back at him. Therefore we must understand that what Ghazi brothers did was in self defence. The pity is Mullahs of the country have been corrupted by Musharraf by offering nice salaries and perks to them, hence they failed to point out that the sanctity of a masjid was to be safeguarded at all costs. No Muslim can dare attack a masjid, because it is Allah house.

Accordingly security forces, army men and rangers who attacked Lal Masjid are jahunumi and the fighters of Lal Masjid are shuhdaa and shall Insha Allah Will be rewarded with Paradise. Each officer or jawan must have refused to obey illegal order of attacking a masjid. They could say: “Look sir ! we joined the army to protect the Masajid and save women and children, not for destroying and killing them”.

Since they gave preference to order of the officer over Order of Allah, they are mahluk and jahanumi.

The brave fight back of Ghazi Abdul Rashid is an eye opener. When most of the Mullas just talked he challenged the illegal and immoral acts of Musharraf regime of knocking down 90 year old masajid of Islamabad and kept fighting for the cause till death. On such noble death Mir has said:

Marge Majnun pe aqal gum hai Mir
Kiya Diwane ne maut pai hai !

Most Mullas could not see this fine line and remained indifferent, although they could have raised hue and cry against desecration of masajid. We should not forget that Quran says “Allah is Most Powerful and Revengeful” Every party can see his image in this mirror!

Considering the issue, I feel convinced that the sad demise of Ghazi Abdul Rashid should be labeled as a Shaheed and full respect offered to the body in regards to its proper dignified burial. I would hold the Pakistani Army responsible to the extent of disobeying the Islamic Law to which they all have sworn to uphold.

He died defending the religion of Islam against the evil forces.

I hope that, you too, would join me in prayer hoping that Allah would confer the title of Shahdat upon Shaheed Ghazi Abdul Rashid and grant him his deserved place in the life-here-after.

Posted by on July 12, 2007.

Tags: , , ,

Categories: Islam, Musharraf, Pakistan, Politics

1080 Responses

  1. i have no comments on this issue doc. i am literally tongue tied.

    by shobz on Jul 12, 2007 at 8:08 am

  2. I remember when I used to hear the song…”pakistani fauj kai jawaan hain ham, har gharee tayyar kamraan hain hamm….” when I was a kid and I wanted to join the AirForce so bad, but I had weak eyesight and my dream didn’t come true.

    Now I thank Allah I didn’t join Pak Air Force, other wise I would be just obeying TAGHOOT….

    Where are those Jawans who would make us proud of Pakistan Army again, I’m sure there are some gems under the dirty of Corrupt Generals.

    by phir sai on Jul 12, 2007 at 9:54 am

  3. So you respect the masjid even if it is illegal and based on fitna ? No way! We have an example from the life of our Holy Prophet (PBUH), where he razed a mosque (Masjid e Zarrar I think) where munafiqeen used to stay and plan their mischief.

    I don’t brand him a shaheed … no way.

    by Raza on Jul 12, 2007 at 10:55 am

  4. Dr. Awab, you disappoint me. Your constant anti-government stand is irritating.

    Tell me, do you support building a mosque and madrassa on illegally occupied land? Please read my last post on my blog regarding this issue about how a mosque (Masjid Zarrar) was demolished in the era of Prophet (PBUH) with his express permission and the reason for it.

    After reading it, tell me if you deny the Sunnah of the Prophet (PBUH) just to further your dislike of the current government?

    by Asad on Jul 12, 2007 at 11:55 am

  5. The link is:

    http://www.asadasif.com/?itemid=108

    by Asad on Jul 12, 2007 at 11:56 am

  6. Asad & Raza,

    To me this issue is NOT about a masjid, but a stand against the rampant degrading morals of our society. To me it has been that ever since. I don’t proclaim that they DID the right thing, I have categorically repeated that even a number of times in my previous posts. I said the ‘way he did it is wrong’ and even stated that Musharraf was forced to take this step to attack the militants. Mosques to are just a wall of bricks they are not what beholds our religion of Islam, its far more then a stone wall.

    But the point of this post is to raise a perfectly valid question, to decide if one man’s enemy is another man Freedom Fighter. Its how you look at the argument that one chooses the point of view.

    To me Ghazi Brothers took a very valid argument – ‘degrading morals of our society’. They hollered, they screamed, they like many of our MMA Maulvis felt the only way to create change is to force it. Wrong it may be, but after all that is the way many scholars have predicted since long, that the only way they will enforce a true Islamic State is through a bloody revolution. I being a liberal am against it but the issue must be addressed rather then shoved under the carpet.

    Though I must concede in light of both of your arguments I might take a slight step back on the Shahdat label, but the argument does stand.

    by Teeth Maestro on Jul 12, 2007 at 12:49 pm

  7. After what has been happening in Islamabad for the past 6 months, if all you can bother to argue about is who is “shaheed” and who isnt, you should be the poster boys of the ignorance and intolerance that these types of people represent.

    by feo on Jul 12, 2007 at 4:31 pm

  8. One more time govt failed to handle the situation successfully.

    Ghazi brothers opted for a wrong solution for a right and just problem. I think the issue could be settled easily if Govt. accepted their demands of implementation of sharia in Islamic Republic of Pakistan, remained stick to their agreement. The faith in Govt. promises was badly shaken when they didn’t comply to their promises of rebuilding the demolished masjids ( if illegal property was the issue then Govt should atleast started the rebuilding of masjids on legitimate properperties ,not all the of the demolished masjids were on illegal property).
    If Govt. accepted these demands, it would left no room for Ghazi borthers to continue their protest. But this issue was let loose , letting it to get prepared for mournful week of july.

    Then again during the negotiations, at the last moment the whole situation took a complete U turn, followed by the the shahadat of moulana abdur-rasheed ghazi.

    several sources are raising the question that , if Nawaz Shareef , Benazir ,Zardari, Murtaza Bhutto, and several other criminals are freed from their criminal charges and offered a safe exit from this country , then why the Govt. is not willing to leave rasheed ghazi. And keeping in view the human rights, why didn’t he captured alive. does all alleged terrorists are subject to shoot at sight? Now who is abusing the law. if someone is criminal , he/she should have a trial in court and not on the streets. Furthermore, absence of media made the govt.’s point of view highly non-reliable. The humiliation of abdul-aziz during burqa presentation also shows the how high does the dictators hold the moral values.

    Same as others , i too , condemn the strategy adopted by Ghazi Brothers , but their cause was no doubt a justified one.

    One thing is that, there are several illegitimate properties in almost every corner of pakistan, and mostly the upper class has benefited from this mafia. WHY aren’t they handled with the same might as those of the masjids that were demolished being on illegitimate property. WHY we have double standards of dealing, for those who are in Power or have influence and for those who don’t enjoy such benefits. WHY still the brothels are kept functioning ??

    by Syed Faraz Mahmood on Jul 12, 2007 at 6:00 pm

  9. totally agreed with faraz why their is double standard…Altaf (they murdered 40 people on the streets of karachi, did not allow CJ to leave the airport, in other words challanged the writ of the government yet not even an inquiry and a pat on the back by our president

    liberals who always criticize religious parties for their suppoort of Zias dictatorial rule (rightly so) but support the current dictator in total disregard to the fact that he violated the contitution

    by asa on Jul 12, 2007 at 7:58 pm

  10. Another Sad day In Troubled chequred History of our country.
    I feel Ghazi and His Followers just fell in the trap set for them. It really amazes that how all this could just go on right under the noses of agencies. It would have been so much easier for the Govt to have Ghazi missing from the outset when the issue first broke.

    As long as he was serving the purpose of Musharraf (U all Know what I mean) it was Ok.
    But when the deed was done. It was time to Dispose him.

    Shameful
    Allah He Hafiz

    by Ali on Jul 12, 2007 at 10:10 pm

  11. @Raza: Prophet(SAW) doesn’t exist anymore and that order was given to Prophet(saw) only and that was pretty exceptional case. Don’t compare it with illegal construction otherwise you sound no different than MMA people who torn the pages of new bill which had name of Allah and they also gave same lame reason of their own filth. Nobody asked you to give fatwa who is shaheed or not.

    @Asif: if awab’s constant anti govt rants irritate you than your constant trolling irritate others as well. You keep whining about “Illegal mosque” while the entire Islamabad is a frikkin illegal state. Go and do your homework first before you come out of your room and rant.

    ghazi is saheed or not, Allah knows but when I saw his picture today on INternet, he would be burried in his own dress rather typical kaffan and what I have read in papers that Shaheeds are burried in same dress in which they fight and die because they will lift up in same dress and would be presented infront of Allah. So what Allah decides for him, Allah knows the best but so far it seems Allah wants him to appear as Shaheed for the people of this world. Rest, Allah knows the best.

    by Adnan Siddiqi on Jul 12, 2007 at 10:58 pm

  12. @ Siddiqi: Interesting how you butt into the conversation when even Awab conceded the specific point I was trying to make regarding religion not being bound to a building.

    I fully agree with the point that while Abdul Rasheed’s intentions might have been good (not sure about that since only Allah knows the entire truth), his actions were anything but.

    Most Pakistanis have an irrational reaction to religion where everything is OK so long as the label “Islamic” is tacked on top of it. I won’t be surprised when some random Mullah says that rape is “Islamic” (may God forgive me for saying this) and the hyper crowds give such a person a standing ovation.

    As far as social morals are concerned, how about the men here stop eyeing women passing by in public places as if they were some piece of meat which they are evaluating. That would be a first step towards improving social morals. After all, ‘honesty starts at home’!

    And FTR, I was not aware your trolling on ATP extended to other blogs as well. Then again, you are just an amusing nuisance so keep up my amusement.

    by Asad Asif on Jul 13, 2007 at 1:12 am

  13. Urdu is a frustrating language, probably one of the few in the world where you can be ‘aap’ ‘tum’ or ‘tu’ to me, in descending order of respect. While such subtle nuances are great for poetry, I think it fails when it comes to unbiased reporting and scientific text. This is probably a big contributing factor to our failure as a nation in general. When I was a teenager, I used to hear the news about the pakistani ‘shaheeds’ and the indian ‘halaaks’ at 9PM everyday, and while General Zia made sure that the 10 year old kids loved their army and continued doing so when they grow up (anyone remember the urdu textbooks with biographies of the nishan-e-haiders), I was fortunate enough to have access to a library and do some independent thinking, and such things have been bothering me ever since.
    We have been trained in the last couple of decades to worship heroes, black and white classification of everything into good/bad evil/holy.
    I wish we had a mother tongue where my brother, father, friend and grandfather were all addressed as ‘you’, everyone ‘died’ and there were was a ‘President’ instead of ‘Janab Sadar Pervaiz Musharraf Sahab’.
    (Uh, I’ve strayed offtopic, but have already ranted enough here about this, so won’t repeat myself (much) again.

    by Cynic on Jul 13, 2007 at 1:42 am

  14. Sorry about the typos, I should be sleeping right now :|

    by Cynic on Jul 13, 2007 at 1:45 am

  15. It is all unfortunate. However, the sight of fully veiled girl ‘students’ wielding lathis and dandas hardly did any good for the image of Islam and Muslims in the world.

    by Indscribe on Jul 13, 2007 at 3:06 am

  16. So what did you want Indscribe, UN-veiled girls wielding lathis, or veiled girls not wielding lathis? Please be specific. This issue seems to be at the top of your concerns right now.

    Let us not give a crap about our image in the eyes of the non-muslims, its obvious we won’t be converting millions of Jews and Christians to Islam any time soon. Let us instead be more concerned about our image in the eyes of god.

    Now I’m wishing I was born in Iran, atleast they have balls.
    (lets see if anyone notices the small ‘g’ and starts the god vs. God vs. Allah argument)

    by Cynic on Jul 13, 2007 at 4:06 am

  17. Asif, ignorance was always used as an excused by psuedo liberals like you. Awab is not my god that i gotta agree what he talks about. When you come up with a weak argument about illegal mosque then I just laugh at your ignorance. U should do some homework before you poke your nose on public forums. Masjid Ameer Hamza(RA) was a century old masjid and it was LEGAL according to CDA documents and it was mentioned several times in papers and programs but it was just demolished because it was being an obstacle in VVIP movement.

    if exposing filth of pseudo enlightened like you is trolling then it’s very necessary these days. Go and hide yourself!

    by Adnan Siddiqi on Jul 13, 2007 at 9:52 am

  18. @Adnan
    Why is the order an exceptional case ? Isn’t everything the Prophet does Sunnah? or did he explicitly tell us not to demolish mosques other than that particular instant?! His actions demonstrate that any mosque that harbours illegal activities and/or is based on illegal property is liable to be demolished. I am in no way defending the razing of other mosques which were legal, as you say. The whole argument about Ghazi and his antics inside Lal Masjid and why he is no shaheed.

    by Raza on Jul 13, 2007 at 10:37 am

  19. Raza, instead of learning Islam from news channel, I would recommend you to read books then comment.

    Regarding what is legal or what not, i already mentioned above. Also, your shaheed argument is baseless without any solid argument.

    Which illegal activities? If stopping aunty shamim from doing filthy business is illegal then you should set one next to your door. Don’t give such argument which you can’t defend. Regardless of who is wrong or right, I do support their or anyones action against the filth of society, someone has to come forward to stop them.

    Your govt claimed for mines,suicide bombers etc etc while we didn’t see anything like that. Neither any women was used as sheilf. What all I read by Ansar Abbasi that a resident of area found deadbodies of women and kids in a Nullah.What I saw that NaPak Army jawans were in masjid with boots. If I had turned the voice off then it would be different to compare whether I am watching some news about Iraq or Pakistan.

    Go and read Dr Shahid’s article in todays Jang. It *might help you to come out from ignorance

    As far as ghazi is concerned, he was shahed or not, was muslim or non-mulsim but he was sure man of his words. Something which even opponents of ghazi now admitting. while pervaiz on other hand is such a phatto that he bows infront of NATO when they attack within Border.

    and again i say that nobody cares what you think whether one is shaheed or not while one could read Quran and Hadith himself. Go and read concerned books first then come and give your opinion.

    by Adnan Siddiqi on Jul 13, 2007 at 1:41 pm

  20. Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

    ghazi is saheed or not, Allah (SWT) knows but when I saw his picture today on INternet, he would be burried in his own dress rather typical kaffan and what I have read in papers that Shaheeds are burried in same dress in which they fight and die because they will lift up in same dress and would be presented infront of Allah (SWT). So what Allah (SWT) decides for him, Allah (SWT) knows the best but so far it seems Allah (SWT) wants him to appear as Shaheed for the people of this world. Rest, Allah (SWT) knows the best.

    Think again. Allah does not even use the word “shaheed” to mean “martyr”. Allah uses the word to mean “witness”. Allah Himself is a witness/shaheed (verse 4:79). Everyone, check out the usage of the word “shaheed” in the Quran.

    by Fahad on Jul 13, 2007 at 5:56 pm

  21. Dr. Awab wrote:

    A shaheed is a title that is given to a Muslim after his death, if he died during the fulfillment of a religious commandment.

    Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

    ghazi is saheed or not, Allah (SWT) knows but when I saw his picture today on INternet, he would be burried in his own dress rather typical kaffan and what I have read in papers that Shaheeds are burried in same dress in which they fight and die because they will lift up in same dress and would be presented infront of Allah (SWT). So what Allah (SWT) decides for him, Allah (SWT) knows the best but so far it seems Allah (SWT) wants him to appear as Shaheed for the people of this world. Rest, Allah (SWT) knows the best.

    Think again. Allah does not even use the word “shaheed” to mean “martyr”. Allah uses the word to mean “witness”. Allah Himself is a witness/shaheed (verse 4:79). Everyone, check out the usage of the word “shaheed” in the Quran.

    by Fahad on Jul 13, 2007 at 6:03 pm

  22. From my standpoint, Ghazi was creating fasaad in the land. He was trying to countermand the rule of law, and create a fitna, regardless of his intentions. He is a faasiq. End of story. The soldiers who died trying to eradicate this fasaad/fitnah are the shuhuda.

    by Ahmer Karimuddin on Jul 13, 2007 at 6:57 pm

  23. Siddiqi, you are in denial despite my pointing out an example from the life of Holy Prophet (PBUH). By doing this, do you still consider yourself a Muslim?

    Over the months, you seem to have developed some animosity towards me and my logically defended views. :D

    Awab is nobody’s god but he is a respected member of the Pakistani blogosphere. What I was trying to do was to build a consensus of sorts at a small level where people present their views and try to convince others, with reason, to share a viewpoint. Nonetheless, what I did was just point out a little fact. Since it contradicts your thinking, Sunnah became unacceptable to you and you started whining, as is the usual case.

    You tell Raza to read books. I ask you to read just the Quran and the Sahih Hadith books like Saheeh Bukhari and come back. If you truly understand them, you will be singing an entirely different tune then.

    You say that Aunty Shamim did “filthy business”. Do you have any proof of this? Perhaps personal testimony? If mob opinion was factual proof, justice would be a dish best not served.

    Ultimately, arguing with you has proven to be futile on numerous occasions in the past and I don’t intend to bow down to your whims and ideals, not now, nor any time in the future. As I have said numerous times before, the best we can do (and that is saying something) is to agree to disagree. Don’t expect me to reply to any more of your “same old” comments unless you post something of worth.

    by Asad Asif on Jul 13, 2007 at 7:44 pm

  24. GHAZI ABDUL RASHEED IS SHAHEED coz He died only and only to impose sharia in pak.We say pak is an islamic state.Where is islam in it. Is it in heera mandi lahore.Is it in Chinese massage center r in the home of sick shameem. Is it in faisalabad where two girls marry. We r muslims just by name.F we see our whole system is like that of west.Look at the programes of PTV,ATV & many other paki Channels.Plz dont destroy ur Faiths by talking against the Great Aalims like ghazi sahib.

    NOOR-E-KHUDA HAI KUFR KI HARKUT PE KHANDAZAN
    PHONKO SE YE CHIRAGH BUJAYA NA JAY GA

    ISLAM ZINDA BAAD

    by saima on Jul 13, 2007 at 11:04 pm

  25. Asad, don’t change topic and answer my two questions.

    1)if a state was established illegally and if we apply your moral rule of land grabbing then would you endorse to destroy such state.

    2)what if a legal building is demolished. is it good? The masjid Hamza(RA) was a century old and it was demolished because it was disturbing VVIP movement. I am not from ISB but i heared it was near some CLUB road and it used to disturb ministers and president as they consider every namazi a terrorist.

    Anwer them if you can otherwise don’t respond me and make yourself fool further.

    regarding Aunty, go to concerned sectors and asked them. One of my office branch is in ISB and colleagues told me that aunty was influencial and DID run a brothel. For proof go to concerned thana you would get proof yourself.

    you speak about proof, your dictator demolished a legal masjid and you didn’t bother to find out truth. There were no proofs about sucide bombers in madarssah hafsa, did u ask govt to give proof ? you just accepted them. Were women in madrassah used as sheilds? offcourse not and these are not my words, all news resources refuted govt claims, even Ejazul Haq admitted it. So don’t use things for your own interest, if you think you re credible then demonstrate it as well. don’t ask others to do somethngs which you ain’t cable yourself.


    p.s: AWab is like my friend *nuff said*
    p.p.s: Do answer my two questions otherwise don’t expect me to answer you.

    by Adnan Siddiqi on Jul 14, 2007 at 12:16 am

  26. Fahad, the “Quranist”, whatever the word is used by God, you understood what I wanted to say. Nobody is arguing whether shaheed is some arabic word,urdu or it does exist in Quran or not. Since the word is commonly used for certain kind of people who dies for certain cause, this is why all were using urdu wala shaheed here.

    by Adnan Siddiqi on Jul 14, 2007 at 12:22 am

  27. An mediocre article written by an equally mediocre person. Oversimplification is a dangerous fallacy and one should avoid that.

    What the article is trying to say that an agressor is always at fault. Well what happend in the Battle of Badr? The Muslims went after the caravan of Abu Sufyan – The Meccans came to defend it. So?????????????????

    Ghazi and Co. attacked businesses, and occupied a childrens library. Also the property of Jamia Hafsa was encroached upon. The army came to remove them.

    Not that simple is it?

    by Zulfi on Jul 14, 2007 at 9:37 am

  28. My religious knowledge is very limited, so I’ve been reading up on anything relevant that I could find on the question that is on every Pakistani’s mind these days to form an informed opinion.
    I heard the concept of Dar-ul-Harb vs. Dar-ul-Islam being mentioned by the Lal Masjid people in many articles/interviews, and stumbled upon this illuminating and very relevant article a few minutes ago.

    Please do read the complete article, titled A Muslim’s Nationality and His Belief

    I’m accepting the conclusions I made from this article, i.e. Pakistan is Dar-ul-Harb, and that the ‘Burqa Brigade’ was/is right.
    If anyone can ENLIGHTEN with a counter-argument, I’d be glad to change my point of view and convert to the ‘Sub say pehlay Pakistan’ camp.

    by ReallyVirtual on Jul 14, 2007 at 9:55 am

  29. Siddiqi:

    1 – Depends upon a lot of factors.
    2 – I have no problem if it was legally built. Nice try at changing the topic. A very Jewish tactic, if I say so myself. We are talking about Jamia Hifsa which was illegally built, an extension to Lal Masjid, not Masjid Hamza here.

    LOL! I knew you were believing on here-say regarding Aunty Shamim… Meri khala kay chachay kay susar ki saas ka tai kay putar nay kaha tha… Now that’s credible! I am not one to believe “guilty until proven innocent”. There are courts and legal procedure. If that was not working, media was there to specifically highlight this thing. No peaceful means were used. Instead, the Lal Masjid terrorists kidnapped her and her family members. You again say “I heard”, which is doubtful at best regarding the place of the Hamza Mosque.

    Consider you statement “you speak about proof, your dictator demolished a legal masjid and you didnt bother to find out truth”. You say that Musharraf was responsible for this when the entire responsibility lies with CDA. It was CDA who tried to demolish the mosque, not Musharraf himself. City authorities do not need permission from the President to make decisions to manage the city. Does the city authority in Karachi calls on Musharraf each day to get permission for making bridges, opening drains, making water cleaning facilities, enhancing the sewerage system or similar other things? If not, then why do you think that CDA needs permission from Musharraf for everything?

    CDA has been brought to court multiple times before by various people/groups and these groups have won many a time. Couldn’t the people who protested violently and raised havoc just file a case with the SC? It probably didn’t agree with their emotionally charged and disabled thinking regarding Islam.

    The government is not a bunch of angels. However, it is very convenient to blame them to absolve yourself of guilt and responsibility. If everything is a responsibility of the government, what are we as the citizens of the country doing? Expecting a free lunch ?

    PPS: I would not be honoured, nor will I feel insulted in any way if you answer with your meagre excuses again. To you the world is black and white when instead to me, it is in shades of grey.

    Blaming is easy. Taking responsibility and stepping forward is the difficult path and we Pakistanis are known to take the easier path on numerous occasions. You just proved this.

    by Asad Asif on Jul 14, 2007 at 1:29 pm

  30. Dr. Awab wrote: For a moment lets forget the political issues surrounding the crisis, coming to the root of the issue it was Ghazi Abdul Rashid who was defending the integrity of Islam challenging the ineffectiveness of the government in implementing the sharia law hence allowing a progressive degradation of our society. Without doubt Right or Wrong Maulana Shazi Abdul Rashid was defending his place of worship and was fulfilling his religious duties in this process.

    Asad Asif wrote: I fully agree with the point that while Abdul Rasheeds intentions might have been good (not sure about that since only Allah knows the entire truth), his actions were anything but.

    The intentions of such people are also exposed in the “masjid zaraar verse:

    9/107: and they swear “our intentions are good. While God bears witness that they are liars indeed.

    Asad Asif wrote:

    Most Pakistanis have an irrational reaction to religion where everything is OK so long as the label “Islamic is tacked on top of it. I wont be surprised when some random Mullah says that rape is “Islamic (may God forgive me for saying this) and the hyper crowds give such a person a standing ovation.

    I agree. Most people do not use their senses to confirm if what is being called as “islamic or “quranic is really so. Hence their behavior is worse than that of cattle:

    7/179: Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).

    25/44: Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle;- nay, they are worse astray in Path.

    Dr. Awab wrote:

    Considering the issue, I feel convinced that the sad demise of Ghazi Abdul Rashid should be labeled as a Shaheed and full respect offered to the body in regards to its proper dignified burial.

    Ghazi Abdul Rasheed was a criminal like others with him, and he should be treated as such. He should be buried like his fellow criminals have been buried without receiving any special treatment. Or, the bigger the criminal, the better his treatment?

    Dr. Awab wrote:

    I hope that, you too, would join me in prayer hoping that Allah (SWT) would confer the title of Shahdat upon Shaheed Ghazi Abdul Rashid and grant him his deserved place in the life-here-after.

    Mufsideen like Ghazi Abdul Rasheed do not even believe in the God and the hereafter:

    2/8: Of the people there are some who say: “We believe in God and the Last Day;” but they do not (really) believe.
    2/9: Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!
    2/10: In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).
    2/11: When it is said to them: “Make not mischief on the earth,” they say: “Why, we only want to make peace!”
    2/12: Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.

    Just because they claim to believe in God and the hereafter does not make them believers. Their behavior is exposed in the Quran as that of mufsideen/mischief-makers. It is against such kafireen that God has commanded to fight.

    by Fahad on Jul 14, 2007 at 7:23 pm

  31. Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

    Fahad, the “Quranist, whatever the word is used by God, you understood what I wanted to say. Nobody is arguing whether shaheed is some arabic word,urdu or it does exist in Quran or not. Since the word is commonly used for certain kind of people who dies for certain cause, this is why all were using urdu wala shaheed here.

    Read my last post to see the cause such people die for.

    by Fahad on Jul 14, 2007 at 7:53 pm

  32. abdur rashid gazi is shaheed.his shahdat will bring islamic inqilab.

    by imtinan shakoor on Jul 14, 2007 at 8:54 pm

  33. Farhad
    You sound like your ‘nabi’ Qadiani…. just manipulating Quran.

    by Muhajir on Jul 14, 2007 at 9:35 pm

  34. For that Masid which was ordered to be destroyed was built by ‘Yahud’ in order to divide the Muslims.

    First of all that Masjid wasn’t destroyed out of love of KUFFAR.

    It wasn’t destroyed because the builders of the Masjid were demanding for shariat.

    It wasn’t destroyed because the builders of the Masjid were asking the ruler to follow Islam.

    IT wasn’t destroyed so that porn would prevail.

    Where as Lal Masjid was destroyed Just to earn $$$ from Kuffar.

    by OneMore on Jul 14, 2007 at 9:57 pm

  35. i feel whatever happen is good for muslims, because know we are in the position to identify the hypocrates. these hypocrates are the biggest danger for islam atleast we can identify them, qatal hussain asal main marg e yazeed hey….. islam zinda hota hey har karbala key bad…
    toaday i saw tears in my eyes while reading the article by Dr Shahid Masood on the lal masjid issue , after reading that i pray from Allaha that aey Allaha give respect to muslims and make them power over whole world as u promised.I know Allaha will listen me and the hypocrates like musharaff will be taken into justice.yes we are the moderate muslims .. yes we wanted to be free.. we need democracy… freedom to live

    by umar on Jul 15, 2007 at 1:11 am

  36. i can only say shame shame pakistan army.abdul rasheed ghazi insha allah ham tairay khoon ka badla zaroor lain gay insha allah

    by R.A.J.A. on Jul 15, 2007 at 1:27 am

  37. ab islami inqalaab zaida door naheen hai.sab loag apnay aap ko theek karain ore ghazi sahib kee tarah maidan e ammal main uttar jaen.ghazi sahib to 7 allah kay gharoan yani masajid kee doobara taameer ka mutalba kartay thay jinhain cda nay shaheed kar diya tha.woh to badkaaree kay adday khatam karnay ka mutalba kartay thay?kya yahee qasoor tha unka?woh to aimaan kay pehlay darjay par thay kay buraee ko haath say roaknay kee koshish kee.
    ghazi sahib kee shahadat nay karbala kee yaad taaza kar dee.hazrat imam hussein nay beeh to yazeed kay aagay sar naheen jhukaya tha ore shahadat ko tarjeeh dee thee ore ghazi sahib nay beeh yahee kiyya ore unkay saathyoan nay beeh shahadat ko tarjeeh dee.hamaree pakistan army bayghairat army hai jis say kafroan say to lara nahenn jata ore apnay loagoan par goalee chalnay main shair hai.

    by R.A.J.A. on Jul 15, 2007 at 1:38 am

  38. Asad, that’s called actually TROLLING and IGNORANCE which you leftists also demonstrate.
    When you have no idea how the all fuss got started then there is no point to argue with a person with no knowledge. Nobody changed topic. All fuss got started when seven masjids were demloished by Mush officials and Masjid Hamza was ONE of them which was legal. I advised you earlier go and maek a read and don’t fool out of yourself by participating withot knowledge.

    Speaking of Aunty Shamim, Those BHANJAYS of aunty who are worried that people badmouthing their aunty,they should read this report. Aunty WAS involved in dirty things:
    tinyurl.com/2ax4bv

    alternative link:
    http://kadnan.googlepages.com/jang.gif

    But I know bhanjays like will keep cryin about it.

    Now keep trolling kid by coming up lame arguments. Just remember that truth never lies and I know after the end of musharraf, all of your little things would hide in some bin. Tata

    by Adnan Siddiqi on Jul 15, 2007 at 11:18 am

  39. Muhajir,

    You sound unable to back what you just wrote.

    by Fahad on Jul 15, 2007 at 2:57 pm

  40. Like all human beings, Muslims are also of two kinds (I would like to write in roman Urdu) “Baa Shaoor” and “Bay Shaoor”. Instead of going in detail i would simply put few questions which will give all my readers a lime light.

    1. When the dead body of holy prophet was waiting for funeral, there were two kinds of muslims. One who were holding Shoorah to decide who would be the Caliph now. They gave priority to decide the government instead of completing prophet’s (pbuh)funeral first (Their identity is that they are still after government all the time). Others for whom prophet (pbuh) was important completed funeral and did not care for government snaching. (Both the parties were Kalmah Goh)

    2. In Karbalah there were two kinds of Muslims. One who were killing innocent prophet’s (pbuh)family. Others who were being martyred. (Both were Kalmah Goh)

    2. After the death of holy prophet Muslims immediately divided in two groups who were so opposite to each other that they fought a battle even (Jange Saffeen). There is no reason in the world to declare two opponents correct at a time but Mullahs claim that both were right because both were Kalmah Goh.

    So if your criteria is also to support people on the basis of only reciting Kalmah, you decide in which group you are, Baa shaoor or Bay shaoor.

    Any body who try to hide this my mail keep in mind that these are the questions Muslims will be asked at the day of Judgement. Its always better to be prepared before someone ask you a question.

    by saalik on Jul 15, 2007 at 4:01 pm

  41. In Qura’an it is written that MOhammad(PBUH) was asked to lead and pray in masjid e zarrar. Wahee revealed that the only reason mosque was built was to create prejudice(inteshaar)against muslims and that Moahmmad(PBUH) should destroy masjid e zarrar. And so it was done…
    Nowadays all the mosques in the world are practicing prejudice against each other. Are they not similar to Masjid e zarrar?

    by Amjad on Jul 15, 2007 at 4:10 pm

  42. degrading morals of our society – Does any one care to know “WHY” he took this stance NOW? Was it not the same TWO years ago? Where was he back then?

    Reason is simple, HE feared his MADRASSAH was built on GOVERNMENT land too, illegal for him so he starts the whole thing… Someone said he was man of his words, please proof this. Was he not the one who talked about KHUDKUSH HAMLE as aakhri harba against Government if Government’s aakhri harba was OPERATION?

    by H a s s a N on Jul 15, 2007 at 4:34 pm

  43. I do feel sad for the lost of innocent lives inside, the women and children that is not Rashid Ghazi or other armed men inside. Rashid Ghazi was only doing this for his ‘OWN’, no one else or the country.

    This same place has been used for ‘extremist’ activities in the past with support of the intelligence agencies against another sect.

    by H a s s a N on Jul 15, 2007 at 4:40 pm

  44. Dear Teeth Maestro ,Raza and Asad who is funafiq u and we all know, a munafiq can not b a person who speak out for islam, Allah and shariat and not only speak they proved by fight till death, than open ur eyes for difference of munafqeen…munafiq is our gov and munafiq is our President Musharaf not those people who prefered death rather living in no-muslim counrty which was made in the name of Allah and making laws agaist Islam and quarnic laws.

    Answer me y gov is not implementing shariah law??

    Ghazi abdul Rashid and his companions all are shaheed and all amry guys are halak ther is no doubt about it……..

    by saadia Habib on Jul 16, 2007 at 2:46 pm

  45. Dear ‘teeth maestro’, please allow me to congratulate you on your stance about the issue at hand. It is indeed comforting to be in the company of those whose viewpoint we share.

    The July 10 massacre at Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza at the hands of Pak Army has left me so badly scarred emotionally that I might never completely recover. In the profession I was trained – medicine – death and its many faces is no stranger to me. A Psychiatrist and avid reader of human nature, Im also all too familiar with the violence man, the most territorial of species, is capable of unleashing on its own kind when he wants to assert his power. But nothing I was trained for or nothing I read could have prepared me for what unfolded on 10 July, 2007 on my TV screen.

    I sat stunned and totally numb as image after image hammered on my retina the devastation let loose on structures built in Allahs name where children and women in the thousands had been reported to be confined. Many of these women and children had been rendered orphans in the earthquake that had shaken the very foundations of this country a handful of months ago.

    This time around however, it wasnt nature that let loose its fury upon helpless humans. This time it was the uniformed henchmen of a dictator whose mercilessness annihilated more than the brick and mortar of Gods house. It killed more than a thousand women and children besides murdering hundreds of rasikh-ul-aqeeda momineen whose methods even I did not agree with but whose struggle was for a cause only an infidel would refute.

    I for one have never been too fond of the mullahs of this country and their ranting about establishing an Islamic state in Pakistan. They, in my view, were, are and will forevermore be all ineffective and weak. Their ineffectiveness has led the common man to be weary of them and eventually be weary of Islam.

    And then I sat through the live transmission of the week long siege of the seminary in Islamabad. I saw and heard its firebrand naib-khateeb, Abdul Rasheed Ghazi who looked and sounded nothing like a typical molvi one prefers to run a mile from. He was forceful in elocution but wasnt scary like his counterparts who menacingly spew warnings of doomsday scenario of every kind. Abdul Rasheed Ghazi exuded a charm that bordered on the charismatic. It was clear even to a casual observer that he truly believed in what he said and that his charisma made his belief in his struggle very infectious.

    I have for the longest time not been a practicing Musalman in any sense of the word practicing. In particular its been almost a decade that I havent said my prayers. So on the eventful morning of July 10, when at 4:00 am death started to loom large over the ill-fated mosque and madrisah, and I spread the prayer mat and cried buckets in the sajda, I knew Ghazi sahib had passed on his infection to me through the airwaves. I know deep inside that I believed in what he believed.

    As I prayed hard to Allah, I knew death will not rest until it had taken its toll on the occupants of Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza. I knew it the moment the jaiyalay jwan of the glorious Pak army stormed the masjids compound at the heels of 200 earth shattering blasts. I knew it was futile to pray for the safety of the stranded children, women and men. They had clearly been marked for death. So I prayed hard that Allah grant them the courage to fight hard as they could, that when they died, Allah eased for them the pain of death and that once dead, Allah raised their darajat of shahdat.

    And as I prayed for the unfortunate souls facing the might of an army formidable only to its own citizens, I felt I somehow became connected to them. Every bead of rosary I counted in prayer, joined me in a bond with the thousands that were fighting not for their lives, but for the glory of death. I felt I lived a thousand lives that day. I believe I died a thousand deaths that night.

    I have read the many responses on this forum and am not surprised at the way liberal extremists here have lanced at Ghazi sahab. The hot arguments of firebrand believers seldom melt the cold intellect of the left wing secularists. Ghazi sahib must have realized that towards the end himself. Few out there really believed in his cause. The people of Pakistan today worship idolaters of Bollywood. Allah and his deen are no longer a part of their equation evident from the scores of responses on TV that day. Media took on the role of the negotiator whose reporters diligently kept trying to talk him into giving up the men and women we all now know he was never holding as hostages [http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=8972]. Even when he told them his mother had been shot and that he could see her breathing her last, no reporter implored those running amuck in the echelons of power to show some mercy. The blood thirsty army dictator wanted to rid himself of Islamaists who were a threat to the soft image of his Pakistan and to his enlightened moderation. The government functionaries, the rubber stamps of the dictator, ran like messenger boys between the mosque and the GHQ trying to negotiate a deal no one really wanted to go through. The ulema fought over the custody of the ruins of Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza. Ejaz ul Haq broke into sweat when invited to go into the madrasha he today weeps over. Sherpao, the PPP secular liberalist fought hard to sanction the bloody operation for which he had full support of the MQM. Here, on this forum I see all these people represented. The people have spoken. Operation Silence is long since over. The silence of the shaheed is no less than deafening.

    Those of you who think Musharraf is not directly responsible for the heinous crime he has committed against thousands of children and women; I have only one thing to say. When you tread upon the constitution of your country and stage a coup against a democratically elected government, when you amend the constitution time And time again to perpetuate your reign of terror, when you side with terrorists like the MQM, call them allies and justify their terrorism as a show of force, when you brand Islamsits as terrorists and have them murdered in the house of god then you ARE responsible for unleashing violence on your kind. You are to whom the buck stops with.

    I read with bafflement responses on this forum with regards to “mosques constructed on illegally occupied land [Asad, Raza]. Wow! In a country where whole islands are being forcefully evicted of their inhabitants and allocated to building holiday resorts or high-rise buildings, a few hundred yards of land taken over to build a place of worship or Islamic learning is scorned upon by your lot. In a country where thousands of acres of land is allocated to non-Muslims right smack in the middle of a bustling metropolis for the token money of rupee 1 [the Aga Khan Hospital, Karachi] a few hundred yards of land taken over to build a place of worship is scorned upon by your lot. In a country where the army grabs hold of land at will [Military Incorporated by Dr. Ayesha Siddiqua] to build lavish housing schemes for army men, a few hundred yards of land taken over to build a place of worship is scorned upon by your lot.

    Legality of a mosque in a country where the very legality of the government in power is questionable bears little weight. ‘The New Land Mafia’ by Abdul Naeem, August 31, 2004, is an article that looks into the armys land grabbing exploits, a page that has now been removed by the sites owner for reasons we all understand, a page that is now accessible through its cashed document on google through the following link: [The New Land Mafia @ Chowk.com via Google Cache] Read how the army is using torture and brutal force all over the country for owners of pricy land to hand the land over to them.

    I thank you [phir s] for giving voice to my thoughts so beautifully. I thank you [Adnan Siddiqui] for your thoughts echo my own. And I thank you [ReallyVirtual] for the link to the article A Muslims Nationality and His Belief. It is an eye opener. It says it in so many words what Abdul Rasheed Ghazi shed his blood to reiterate. I am not surprised that none of the trolls busy engaging us in worthless debates have actually bothered to remark on the position this article takes because none of them would be able to defend their liberal extremist ideology against the article without crossing the line that separates us from the infidels.

    An eye for and eye, so says Allah. And justice will have to be served one day. Justice will be served the day when Musharrafs mother is shot in front of his eyes and he sits there with her grey haired head in his lap, feeling her frail body struggle for breath, feeling the cold of death slide gradually on the woman who had given him life. And when she breaths her last, a grenade is fired on him, its shrapnel slicing through his throat leaving him barely alive to feel every bullet that slices through the body of his beloved daughter Ayla, whose burning corpse he sees turn into ash before death pierce through his uniformed body. That day the shaheed of Lal Masjid and Jamai Hafza would have been avenged. And people like me would have at last found peace.

    In the end there is a request I would like to make to all of you who believe that Abdul Rasheed Ghazi died the death of a shaheed. For whatever it was worth, Ghazi Sahib was fighting for a cause no musalman can argue against. That his method was questionable is a debate that should be laid to rest for he paid with his life for that adopting that method.
    Hours before he died, in his last telephonic conversation with the media, Ghazi sahib implored to the nation to keep struggling for the implementation of Shariah Laws in Pakistan. Implementation of the Shariah laws as sanctioned in the constitution of Pakistan is a mammoth task under the present circumstances. Musharraf with his overt agenda of enlightenment and so-called moderation is never ever going to let Shariah laws come in his way of putting Pakistan in the bracket of moderate nations. We as a nation need to take baby steps towards forcing Musharraf to take a back track on his enlightenment policy. Most of us do not wish to see a fundamentalist Pakistan headed by bearded mullahs who curb our basic human rights at the drop of a hat. But we also do not wish to see a morally corrupt Pakistan where contraceptive ads are openly aimed at unmarried young men and women [Touch], where billboards of a wine-making concern herald captions like “me and my big apple splashed across a busty woman [Karachi], where prostitutes are allowed to run their business under government protection [Aunty Shamim et al] where actresses are officially glorified for doing semi-pornographic films in neighboring countries [Meera], where hand-picked women ministers embrace and kiss non-Muslim men in the name of collecting charity [Neelofur Bakhtiar], where allegedly homosexuals women are made governors of state institutions [Governor State Bank] and homosexual men are given army protection for helping arrange congregations of the wicked weekly [Dansih Tapal], where formation of syllabus of basic education is given in the hands of non-muslims, where new skyscrapers are planned to light up the skyline but where century old mosques are demolished because they harden the soft image of Pakistan in the west.

    That is what we should be looking at rather than taking the bait of trolls like [Asad Asif] and wasting our energies in letting them engage us in pointless rhetoric. People like him throw our way carefully engineered arguments that ask us to justify our beliefs to him that need to measure up to the yardsticks of his paradigm.

    And no matter how hard you try and prove your point, he and his lot will never see things from the viewpoint of a rasikh-ul-aqeeda muslman. Victory over the likes of him can only be achieved by throwing the crumbs of your inattention at them, by letting their hollow words fall flat in the wilderness of their own trolling, and for like minded people to come together and do our bid in helping build the true image of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

    by Haq on Jul 17, 2007 at 12:39 am

  46. I think that every 1 including people in power should be more sensible and behave as humans…..No 1 is goin to be happy…U pray & you live happy life is what good expects from every 1….At the end of the day people talk big and they go and get themselves killed but are they doin what god expects from them?????
    This is stupidity….Grow up my friends and live a beautifull life like a pure water.

    by Lawson on Jul 18, 2007 at 12:57 am

  47. Great! For simply expressing my view, I am now termed as ‘Munafiq’ while Ghazi is elevated to the status of a hero. I am in no way saying that I agree with the manner the operation was carried out, all I said was that the stance Ghazi took was wrong and he was personally responsible for the lives of each and every individual inside that compound, so in a way he deserves double the blame. I guess my point was Ghazi got what he had coming to him. As for your justification of grabbing land in order to build a mosque, my friend you cannot justify one wrongdoing with another … especially for such supposedly holy purpose.

    Adnan, you keep going back to Masjid e Hamza issue when I am in agreement with you over that. The whole discussion is about holding people up in Lal Masjid and using it as a center to resist and challenge the government and threatening to run chaos (read fidai) rampant. There may be a lot wrong going on behind the scenes, and the govt. may have ulterior motives behind this action (especially the timing of it) but as a matter of principle and of right/wrong .. Ghazi cannot be right in my view and should not be termed as `shaheed`.

    by Raza on Jul 18, 2007 at 8:46 am

  48. What is wrong with challenging the goverment?
    The goverement challanges Allah.
    Are you saying for you the govrement is higher than Allah?

    Why are you a Muslim?
    Muslim is some one who submits to the will of Allah not the will of goverments.
    There is no obediance to teh creation in disobediance to Allah

    People can claim to be Muslim. But are they Muslim?

    I think the terms Muslim and shaheed is being confused.

    Some are shaheed for Allah and others are shaheed for chinese prostitutes and America and isreal.

    Only one of them can go to heaven. Which Allah decides not you

    by Muslim on Jul 19, 2007 at 8:47 am

  49. One thing which is very clear is that Mullahs are not extremist instead the example of extremism is set by the Army, inshAllah they will soon pay for that, How can they use WP, I would forcefully say that Musharaf and government officials shall be trialed on using WP.

    by Basar on Jul 19, 2007 at 9:20 am

  50. I guess it is not an easy task to give life for the cause. I slute Ghazi for his shahdat for the cause of Islam .. we hv just put a label of Muslims but in reality we dont obey allah / his book Quran.. May Allah show ur the right Path ….. Amin

    by Izhar on Jul 19, 2007 at 3:38 pm

  51. Shahadat depends upon the intent in heart. The Lal Masjid issue, and the events occured after it are very complex and shrouded.

    by The Pakistani Spectator on Jul 20, 2007 at 11:25 pm

  52. Lt. Col. Harun ul Islam was indeed shaheed.

    His death testified that There is no God but Bush and Musharraf is the messanger of Bush.

    by osman on Jul 21, 2007 at 7:24 am

  53. How can one justify the occupation of a children’s library which has no link with any unislamic activity, kidnapping of a woman without giving her right to prove her innocence, attack on CD shops and forcing them to shut down without providing any alternative means to earn for their families, kidnapping of policemen as a revenge of arrest of some of their colleagues, setting up parallel courts within a state against the laws of that state, kidnapping of chinese without any proof and without filing any complaint with any local government authority against any illegal activity, snatching arms and equipments from security personnels, firing and killing security personnels, damaging and burning, public and private property, keeping arms and amuntion in a mosque for no apparent reason, not laying arms and firing at security persoonel during the leninecy period of 5 full days, keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endagering their lives (also many of them got killed and without any prosumably), going back on his words again and again during the negotiations and last not least, painting a very bad picture in the eyes of non-muslims about the Islam, which itself is a huge loss to Islamic teachers and the institutions

    Everyone saw Abdul Aziz getting caught in Burqa keeping in mind the fact that he was asking his students to get ready for jihad and shahadat. He and Abdul Rasheed had the same view point which Abdul Rasheed was also justifying in one of his interview.

    Everone knows that at the end, Abdul Rasheed wanted to surrender and leave everything, even his demand for islamic system in return for a safe passage.

    Moral corruption in pakistani society has not started ovenight or in the last 5 months. What was they thinking in the last so many years or should i say decades and why didn’t they protest earlier against unislamic values in the society. No one can deny that Islam can not be imposed by force. If the majority in our society is corrupt, then there is no justification to take law in your hands. One should first show through his examplary attitude and prove to other people that what true Islam is and how can we improve our lives by implementation of Shariah laws in the true sense. If we majority agrees with your view point, then you do what you want to do. Be good Muslim, Preach Islam, Convince others to follow Islam and when you are in majority, bring the laws, which you want to follow. Even then, minorities should have all the right to live peacefully and enjoy freedom of their religious within the boundaries set by majority through demacratic means.

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Jul 21, 2007 at 6:12 pm

  54. ghazi was smiling after he was shaheed .subhan ulllah

    by sarah on Jul 22, 2007 at 2:40 am

  55. http://daily.urdupoint.com/gallery.php?picId=6054&page1=1&date1=2007-07-22

    hey another thing we dont need the americans to do any more, we can desecrate Qurans ourselves..

    Mush taking us to selfreliance

    by osman on Jul 22, 2007 at 9:43 am

  56. ghazi abdul rashid is shsheed

    by asla kamrani on Jul 22, 2007 at 10:28 am

  57. maulana abdul rasheed ghazi shaheed sahib rehmat ullah is truly a shaheed.he was a great person to stand against all unislamic things. May ALLAH ALMIGHTY shower upon him all of his blessings.He will be remembered by those forever who knew him and loved him.
    andhairoun kay muqabil aftab aaya hi kartay hain.
    bashar jo dat jae to inqilaab aaya hi kartay hain

    by ahad on Jul 24, 2007 at 12:12 am

  58. if somebody is a terrorist its musharaf.not ghazi sahib.musharaf is a qadiani.did u know. how can he let islam being followed.the operation was nothing else than a conspiracy,a sabotage against true muslims and ghazi brothers.and one sign of ghazi sahib`s greatness is that even now beautiful scent is coming from his grave.subhaan allah.

    by ahad on Jul 24, 2007 at 12:23 am

  59. “Islam zinda hota ha har karbala ky baad” we can found many similarities of karbala in this action. Now Foojies are not our “spahies” they are working as very cheep butchers for TAGOOT.

    by Gondal on Jul 24, 2007 at 12:23 pm

  60. One simple question: Are suicide bombers also shaheed? even if the suicide bombing is for a religious cause.

    No one argues the noble work, which Ghazi Sahib may have done during his life time but at the same time we should have the courage to denounce the wrong actions either by Ghazi Sahib or anyone else.

    I respect the opinion of every individual but how can we decide who is Shaheed or Halaak. These things are to be judged by ALLAH because he knows everything. SUch discussions can easily devide a nation because everyone could have different opinion based on the knowledge available with him.

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Jul 24, 2007 at 4:30 pm

  61. shaheedoun ka khoon rang zaroor layay ga.

    musharaf`s real side will come in front of all very soon.

    if once an agreement took place between the leaders and ministers,then why was there any need to go to the president house.and everything was changed.army came coz the primeminister asked it to as a chief executive then why was sharfu interepting.it was a planned thing.no doubt all the men,women and children are shaheeds.abdul rasheed ghazi zindabad

    by ahad on Jul 24, 2007 at 7:59 pm

  62. Good point Ordindary Pakistani, we probably don’t even know the “inside stuff” as they call it of this whole issue. Whether he is a `shaheed` or `halaak`, there can be no denying the fact that innocent people got killed and more importantly, the Army was used against its own people which can only have bad repercussions (as we are seeing). The situation overall is extremely worrying, no one is safe anywhere in Pakistan now (esp. NWFP). God knows how dire situation will become.

    by Raza on Jul 25, 2007 at 10:51 am

  63. Mushharraf has an objective of razing off everything that sounds like Islam. His ambitions are all derived from the “US led war on Islam”. Ghazi’s methods should have been more refined and sensibly crafted, but his objective was right. With so much obscenity, vulgarity and immoral activities going on in our society these days, our blood realy boils too at the present military regime’s outrageous anti-Islamic policies. But we all are practicing is Sabr…. We are sure that the time will come when we all will rise and defend our values and Deen, with the power of Allah behind us. These Liberal elemants are having a tax-free holiday in Musharraf’s regime but Allah will strike on them soon, the believers dont worry they are praying and watching for Allah’s Judgement and eventuality.

    by Dr Farah Khan on Jul 25, 2007 at 11:32 am

  64. I think you are belongs to Fiqa i Jafria

    by Aasim on Jul 25, 2007 at 11:58 am

  65. Raza…i agree with you that the situation in Pakistani is very bad and inncocent civilins and security personnels are dying without any objective reason.
    First question should be: who is doing this and what are their objectives. Every ordinary pakistani would say without doubt that the people behind this are not muslims and definitely terrorist. They want to destabilize pakistan and indirectly or directly helping those non-muslim powers who want Pakistan to act according to their wishes otherwise these people will continue to harm Pakistan.

    Now the question is what an ordinary pakistani should do in this situation? Should he protest and ask Government to step down. The situation today in Pakistan is definitely have its root causes resulting from mainly from the acts of the current government, however some blame is to be shared by previous governments. Religious extermism, availability of weapons across the country, poor performance of security agencies, increasing poverty, widening gap between poor and rich, no or limited education and knowledge availability and many other causes, which are compounding over the last few decades. We elect these people knowing that they are thieves and will not solve our problems only due to lack of education and knowledge. we dont want to think and follow others who think negatively.

    An ordinary pakistani should show solidarity with fellow pakistanis and act against all those elements who preach hate, who tell us that America is evil power but their children study there, who are against army rule but negotiate deals with them, who tell poor followers to fight against unislamic rule by killing innocent countrymen and bombing in public places including mosques and schools.

    I am not in any way supporting the current regime but i think that that this is not right to blame government for all the suicide bombings and rocket attacks and at the same time justifying these acts as a repercussions of acts by our government or our army.

    I am also sad due to deaths of inncocent people in Lal Masjid incident and also on 12 May incident but it doesn’t mean that i should start killing other pakistanis and challenge the writ of the state in order to wage war (which they call jihad) against the government, which as per these elements is unislamic.

    I know one thing that Islam has not spread through sword and Quaid-e-Azam had not shot any bullet in order to establish Pakistan.

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Jul 25, 2007 at 12:57 pm

  66. Shaheed tum se ye keh rehey hain, by Abdul Rasheed Ghazi

    Witnesses demand from you “Think of us, forget us not”
    march forward and do not excuse these assasins of God lovers
    These assassins have cut throats, legs and hands of your sisters brothers and sons,
    Do not let them run, catch them by the neck and do the same with them that they have done with God’s dear ones
    We are dying for God, be witness to this.
    These cruel people do not even consider the hunger and thirst of children who have not taken anything for days.
    The breasts of mothers inside the mosque are dried, they can not feed their innocents.
    We are dying, remember us
    and remember the courage and bravery we are showing to save the name and grandeur of God
    You must follow us to meet us in heaven
    And it is only if you die saving protecting the grandeur of God and Prophet Mohammad.
    Remember us: we are dying to give you life and respect and to protect our faith.

    (a friend translated this poem, composed and sung by Maulana Abdul Rasheed Ghazi at Lal Masjid. I asked my friend to do this translation so that Westerners like me who do not understand Urdu can stop and reflect rather than hastily classify what happened at Lal Masjid according to the cliches of the media. But I also asked him because the decision of the government to bury
    the persons who died at Lal Masjid giving witness of their faith in mass graves is a profanation of their memory, of the rights of their relatives and friends to mourn them according to their faith, and of human dignity. This poem expresses what they died for, and we all – Muslims and not – owe it to their memory to try to understand it.

    As to the use of “witness” to translate “Shaheed”: this is my only interference. My friend would have prefered “martyr”, at first. But in western languages, the understanding of “martyr” is influenced by the fact that the first christians martyrs died convinced that the second coming of the Messiah was imminent, that it would put an end to this world, and that life on earth was therefore of little or no worth: this is why the first christian “martyrs” could see the ridiculous indignity of being eaten by lions for the amusement of the emperor and the people as a way to bear witness to God, for instance. And this contempt of life associated with “martyr” in christian cultures is completely wrong for the persons who also died at Lal Masjid “to give us life and respect”. So in the end my friend accepted the translation of “shaheed” by “witness”) .

    by Claude on Jul 26, 2007 at 1:17 pm

  67. I can only hope that common sense should prevail and poeple can see straight and understand the things themselves rather than using the eyes and minds of other people to think.

    Claude….which western country you are from? I am surprised that even the non-muslims are crying and saluting Ghazi Sahib with so much conviction. Instead of Ghazi Sahib and other criminals, we should feel sorry and pray for those innocent people including students who were not involved in these matters but got killed due to cross fire between the two parties. Would you be comfortable with the thought that a group of religious students headed by their teacher in your country do the same as they have done in Islamabad (illegal encroachment, illegal occupation of a childrens library, kidnapping of a woman, policemen, foreigners (Chinese), attack on businesses, setting up parallel courts, keeping arms in the religious seminary, snatching arms and equipments from policemen, firing and killing security personnel, damaging and burning public and private property and at the end not surrendering and keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endangering their lives). If you belive in the acts of Ghazi Sahib (as you said that it gave you life and respect), then you would definitely appreciate the acts of 9/11, where more than 3,000 innocents lost their lives for no reason.

    The poem above does not reflect what Ghazi Sahib die for. Rather it incites people to take revenge and fight against the rule of law. What is your motive to spread this hate message?

    How are you so sure that people died in this incident have been buried in mass graves. Are you not playing in the hands of media and without any solid evidence playing with our feelings.

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Jul 28, 2007 at 2:16 pm

  68. Molana Abdul Rasheed Ghazi is shaheed and Pak-amry personals are Halak.

    by Usmaan on Jul 28, 2007 at 3:46 pm

  69. ABDUL RASHEED GHAZI SHAHEED was and is our nations hero.he become example for all muslims in our nation.we r proud that he is shaheed for a good cause(islam).if we compare ourself with all the students of jamia hafsa and abdul rasheed ghazi
    then we examin that we r not true muslims..inshahallah his shahadat is not becomes lose for us….amin..!

    by muslim on Jul 28, 2007 at 8:02 pm

  70. Please rather than to speak its better to not only think but should have some knowledge..you people donot know that according to pakistan law you can make masjid at government land but not at personal..so tgis land was authorized to educational insititute and unfortunately when a institute couldnt be made till 6 years then mr zia dedicated this land to mr abdullah gazhi..and it was alloted and after him again now itd started disscussion..and according tolaw if that is government property then too they cant fell it…and for your very kind information…..masjide zarar was occupied by munafiqin (see mirror to see munafiq) and those munafiqin hadnt any quranic page even and they didnt teach any islamic revolution..they just made concipiracy against islamto vanish islam not like mr abdul rashid gazhi shaheed , who wanted to save islam from those people who are used to go to pimp houses(see miror again)

    by Sarah choudhary on Jul 31, 2007 at 9:35 am

  71. [>>>How are you so sure that people died in this incident have been buried in mass graves. Are you not playing in the hands of media and without any solid evidence playing with our feelings]

    I take it that by raising suspicion about the dead having been buried in mass graves you are attempting to cast a doubt over the high death toll claimed by those who dont claim solidarity with the uniformed dictator. First of all it is not JUST the media that reported the huge number of men, women and children who were mercilessly killed by the Jawans of Pak army on 10, June 2007. Members of the media were in fact to be shot on sight by the orders of the Pak army if they as much as approached any of the many hospitals where 20 buses with shuttered down windows, numerous ambulances and the many armored vehicles time and again rushed the dead and injured.

    There are many from the civil society, the parliament and the ranks of military who have assented that the death toll of the operation Silence/Sunrise is very high indeed. General (Retd.) Mirza Aslam Baig, an ex- Chief of the Army Staff, is not a name you dont bracket with the most influential figures in the country whose insight into matters of national concern draws from the inside information someone is his position has. In one of his recent interviews to an Urdu Daily [Ummat, issue: 30, July, 2007 - page 3] he made the following statement to one of the questions posed [and I translate verbatim]: “The kind of force used is out-and-out deplorable. Flame Throwers were used so that if there were fifteen girls in a room they all got burnt [by the flame]. Flame Thrower is a weapon an army fires into the enemy bunkers through a hole/vent that lets air in to make sure that everyone inside is burnt alive debris inside the Jamia Hafza had been so [callously dumped] that soon as someone scratched the surface of the wreckage, they hit a human bone, blood stained clothes, or everyday stuff used by children. This [irrevocably] proves that it was a vast number who were rendered shaheed [during the attack].

    Before this, the army has admitted using White Phosphorus during operation Silence/ Sunrise. Aijazul Haq, the damned minister himself admitted that “White Phosphorus had indeed been used against those barricaded in the Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza. And we are all witness through live TV coverage to the continuous and heavy artillery attacks that rocked Islamabad throughout the days of siege.

    Only Musharrafs minions could rationalize for flame throwers, white phosphorus and heavy artillery shelling to have been used for neutralizing 250 odd men their leader claim to have killed during the attack. Only they would accept on blind faith the death toll given by those whose soldiers callously dumped pages upon pages of Allahs holy book in an open sewerage line [May Allah forgive us for sitting idly and nitpicking on the issue of this desecration of the Quran and not setting out to beat the hell out of those responsible for this sacrilege act].

    Circulating in various government and non-government circles, the conservative estimate of the number of innocent women and children killed in the Jamia Hafza and Lal Masjid massacre is somewhere around 2200. These innocent people were massacred and their bodies were dumped somewhere out of sight. Reported in Ummat [issue 31 July, 2007 Page 8] is two pieces of news that give insight into that number. According to one piece of news, when during the parliamentary session, members of the opposition repeatedly referred to the dead in the army operation on Lal Masjid operation as being in the thousands, none of the members of the ruling coalition raised a point of objection to it or stood up to contradict it. In the same session, a petition was filed with the Speaker to have an independent commission be set up to investigate the disappearance of “2200 to 2300 female students during the attack on Jamia Hafza.

    by Haq on Jul 31, 2007 at 11:13 pm

  72. dear all, Jamia hafza main army nay fasforas bomb painkay hain jin say iron b pigal jata hay insan tuinsan hay.. and they were not 22 to 2300 they were more than 2800 in side. mari cousins wahan theen woh b parhateen theen un kay mutabiq tu round about 3000 talbat aur talibelam wahan thay jab woh log nikleen wahan say tu aur un logon kaybahad tu koi 50 log aur bahar aey hain not more than this.. ghalib imkan hay 2800-3000 bachay, khawateen aur larkay wahan shaheed huay hain…

    dusri bat ab b agar koi government ya army ka sath daita hay tu mujay hairat hoti hay keh woh khud ko muslaman kesay keh sakta hay. munafeen ki yahee tu nishani hay keh jab kurbani ka time ata hay tu peechay hat jata hay.. Mulana Gazi sb shaheed ki tarha kay muslman hain abi mojjood aur un he logon ki waja say yeh dunya b baqi hay warna tu Allah ka kanoon aur Allah ka ghazab bhut sakhat hay….. ham sab jantay hain….

    Mari tu dua hay keh Allah es army ko aur es government kay har banday ko bata day keh asal badshah whohi hay aur us nay abi tak zalmon ki rasi lambi ki hui thi… Ameen…..

    by saadia Habib on Aug 1, 2007 at 11:40 am

  73. Dear Haq….I am not at all justifying the deaths of innocent people during this operation. But there is no solid evidence that around 2200 people have died in this incident. If so many people have died and everything is so obvious with so many indications, then why is anyone not going to court?
    Secondly, when it was repeatedly announced for continuously five days that people inside should come out and they will not be harmed, then what is the justification of anyone still hiding inside (that also in such large numbers). At the same time, how can you justify armed men in a mosque (everyone saw men with gas masks and guns in their hands at the roof top. Is it a true picture of Islam?). Who killed the rangers personnel at the start of this incidence and Army has not killed 10 of their own men. Most of the people say that Ghazi Sahib’s methods were wrong but his objective was right, therefore he is Shaheed. I cant comment in whether he is shaheed or Halak as Allah knows the best but i only have to say one thing that is it justified to committ a crime even it is for a noble cause.

    These cospiracy theories will continue forever same like 9/11 because in such cases, an ordinary person cant have the complete truth so we should try to accept and spread onlt that information, which is true and is supported by proper evidence.

    Dear Saadia……Pakistan army is not consist of Aliens. These are pakistanis and they are not all from ruling family family. Majority of them are family members of ordianry pakistanis. If an error has been committed by an officer or commander, we cant blame the whole organization. If we curse them, then ultimately we are cursing millions of Pakistanis. Army as an organization will have problems, no doubt because social and moral corruption in pakistan will be reflected in all its institutions whether public or private.

    I have one question for all those who are now crying for Ghazi Sahib and his noble cause: where were all these people before and during the lal masjid incidence. If they support Ghazi Sahib’s actions, they should have helped him and given their lives along with Ghazi Sahib. What had happened to them and their beliefs at that time. Why Ghazi Sahib’s own brother escaped in burqa. Why didn’t he fight along with other people when he was always preaching jihad and shahadat to his students. What was they thinking in the last so many years or should i say decades and why didnt they protest earlier against unislamic values in the society. Only when government asked them to remove illegal encroachment from government land, they started acting like this.

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Aug 1, 2007 at 7:23 pm

  74. [>>>If you belive [sic] in the acts of Ghazi Sahib (as you said that it gave you life and respect), then you would definitely appreciate the acts of 9/11, where more than 3,000 innocents lost their lives for no reason.]

    Interestingly, imploring in your post that your feelings not be played with over incidents cited by the local media regarding the death toll of the military operation in Lal Masjid without proof, you mention in the same breath the 9/11 attacks for which to this day the US government has not been able to offer any concrete evidence proving involvement of external elements including Muslim Arabs..

    What happened on 9/11 was an atrocious event orchestrated by the US government against its own citizens [just as they did in Pearl Harbor] to perpetuate its agenda of waging a crusade against Islam. That is NO LOBGER CONSIDERD JUST A CONSPIRACY THEORYthree out of four Americans now firmly believe that it was the US government itself that clandestinely staged the coming down of the twin towers on September the eleventh. Please refer to the following links and read for yourself. [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=435265&in_page_id=1811&in_page_id=1811&expand=true] [http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20060405112622982]

    And what defies logic completely is that how to you is the US government-staged terrorist “act of 9/11 analogous to what you have referred to as “acts of Ghazi Shaheed? The terrorist “act of 9/11 was conspired by the Bush administration for it to lead to set of calculated events that would help the US government curb the growing influence of Islam in the world, protect Israeli interests in the Middle East, take control of the vast fossil fuel reserves of the Muslim world and to keep a check on the emerging world economy, China? The toppling of the twin towers led to the death of [and having gone missing] 2,997 American civilians. Since then the US and coalition led “Operation Enduring Freedom,” Pentagon’s public-relations name for its war on terror has caused deaths of 832962 and seriously injuring1590895 in Afghanistan and in Iraq. Which means 277 times as many Afghans and Iraqis have been killed in the war on terror than the 2,997 killed or missing in on 9/11. More than 16 times as many Afghans and Iraqis have been killed than every person killed in all terrorist attacks worldwide since 1968. [http://www.unknownnews.net/casualties.html]

    Please enlighten us how from your standpoint are 832962 deaths, 1590895 injured, complete destruction of the infrastructure of two countries, violation of human rights in Guantanamo Bay and Al Ghraib prison comparable to “acts of Ghazi Shaeed? You seem very good at posing questions. Try answering one.

    What Ghazi Shaheed advocated, what you call his “acts, and was killed for and what happened on 9/11 are incidents related only through the repercussions of the crusade led by a Christian coalition on Islam and supported by liberal extremists amongst the ranks of Muslims.

    by Haq on Aug 2, 2007 at 6:05 am

  75. Dear Haq

    Interestingly, you have changed the topic and discussion, which were having. Kindly note that in my earlier message, I didn’t put the blame of 9/11 incident to any party. Also, i have not favoured any of America’s acts either in Iraq or Afghanistan. I dont know where all of a sudden it has come from? For most of us it is very easy to link everything to America, Israel or Jews and blame them for everything rather than looking at our errors, wrong judgements and degrading morals.

    The point i was trying to make here was that any wrong acts of anybody should not be justified only because these acts were carried out as a retaliation of something or they were towards a noble cause. Wrong is wrong and it does not become right because intentions were good.

    If you agree that i am good at posting questions, then try finding the answers of these questions so that things become more clear, which will help definitely in making right judgements and decisions.

    One question which i repeat here: Why, at the end, Ghazi Sahib wanted to surrender and leave everything, even his demand for islamic system in return for a safe passage. Now dont tell me that this is one side of picture. We heard it on TV and we heard it from other respectable maulanas and alims who were involved in these negotiations.
    Kindly note that i am not at all justifying the way, army action has been carried out.

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Aug 2, 2007 at 3:06 pm

  76. There are numerous reports in the media about Ghazi grave having a perfume smell. A couple of days ago at the graduation cerenomy at Jamia Usmania in lahore I met two people who swore by Allah that they went to the grave and it had a sweet smell (khushbu) to it. I make this declaration by Allah that I asked both those people to swear by Allah as to this being true. Further more people who have been to the grave of Maulana Musa of Jamia Asharafia who died and his grave gave kushbu seems to have the same smell as ghazis grave.

    Any ways regarding Abdual Aziz making state within a state is in accurate. I had a discussion with a prominent mufti about it. He said the method was doubtful. Then I asked him that when you look at it, the lal masjid people never implement the hadud laws i.e. never gave sharia punishement. At most they did was do amar bil maruf wa nahi al munkar with power so how could that be wrong? And mufti said to me that when you put it that way, there was nothing wrong with their methodology.

    by osman on Aug 2, 2007 at 8:48 pm

  77. Usman….just imagine about the situation if every person starts doing amar bil maruf wa nahi al munkar with “power”. If they were right and there was nothing wrong with their actions, then it should be the duty of every mufti, every aalim and every muslim to do the same. But this is not the case.
    If you list down all the actions carried out by Ghazi Sahib and his team, you will find many of their actions, which will not be supported by a mufti or an aalim.
    Islam has not spread through sword and power used to impose one’s beliefs have always backfired.

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Aug 3, 2007 at 1:29 pm

  78. Please allow me to clarify my intentions for posting on this or any other blog on this particular subject. My objectives for doing so are far removed from engaging anyone in a discussion or a debate. I am totally not interested in letting myself be drawn into endless arguments with people with whom I share no common point of reference because I cannot be convinced against my conviction that thousands of rasikh-ul-aqeeda musalman men, women and children were unjustifiably MASSACRED in Operation Silence/Sunrise by the orders of a tyrant. Neither do I wish to convince any liberal extremist to the contrary.

    Up until 10 July, 2007 I stood in league of citizens of Pakistan who have supported Musharraf over the last 8 years thinking that his unconstitutional occupancy of the country came to be vital to our survival after 9/11. But people like me also saw that while the dictator used one hand for getting Pakistan out of troubled waters, he underhandedly put into motion a series of events aimed at rooting out Islam as deen from the country. Operation Silence/Sunrise was one such event he expertly masterminded.

    Changed for ever by what I witnessed on 10 July, I will never be able to forgive myself for not having been there by Ghazi sahibs side to help him in a cause that goes beyond individual interests, beyond national interests and beyond what is so popularly being called the “writ of the governmentthe enforcing of Allahs writ in a land whose constitution guarantees the implementation of that writ.

    My postings are intended to pick out, expose and set the record straight on disinformation about Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza posted by liberal extremists of the pro-musharraf camp, misconceptions of mislead liberals [who may or may not subscribe to the policies of the military regime] based on disinformation provided by the former, trolling of liberal extremists [deliberately posting false information in order to bait naive users, who believe in an ideology passionately but are not eloquent enough to word their argument, into responding so that they can tear apart their ineloquence with their cold logic making it sound that they have won the argument], and strategically conceived rhetoric and analogies aimed at confusing moderate elements of the society.

    Beyond this point I will not engage in a one-to-one with any user. I would like to point out one more time my belief that the following post had malicious intent and that my response bare that intent by showing the maliciousness of the analogy drawn.

    [>>>If you belive [sic] in the acts of Ghazi Sahib (as you said that it gave you life and respect), then you would definitely appreciate the acts of 9/11, where more than 3,000 innocents [sic] lost their lives for no reason.]

    If one analyses this sentence on structure, it has two parts (1) “If you belive [sic] in the acts of Ghazi Sahib and (2) “then you would definitely appreciate the acts of 9/11….

    Part (1) of this sentence speaks of the actions of a certain person while part (2) speaks of a certain event. The two actions are made to RELATE TO each other by the words “if you and “then you with the QULAIFIERS “believe and “appreciate qualifying the two actions.

    By ALL STANDARDS this sentence draws an ANALOGY [an inference that if things agree in some respects, they agree also in others]between what Ghazi Sahib did [“acts of Ghazi Sahib] and what happened when the World Trade Center buildings in NY came down by the “terrorist acts [the acts of 9/11]. It is like saying “If you like toffees, you will definitely appreciate chocolate meaning that the essence of sweetness, nuclear to both toffees and chocolate is what the person in question appreciates. In drawing an analogy therefore one applies the “this JUST AS that reasoning, comparing issues or entities that are similar in quality or quantity.

    So I believe that contrary to what you are asserting as explanation [>>>The point i [sec] was trying to make here was that any wrong acts of anybody should not be justified only because these acts were carried out as a retaliation of something or they were towards a noble cause.], what you were trying INDEED to assert obliquely was that there is A commonality between the two “acts. And we all know that the “act of 9/11 is adamantly referred to as “terrorism by the western powers and their media, and is adamantly [and falsely] attributed to Muslims by both. Had your intention not been to equate Ghazi Shaheeds “acts to terrorism, you would not have used for your analogy one of the worst acts of terrorism sponsored by a government this side of the millennium. If one is to accept your analogy as correct, then one who supports Ghazi Shaheeds demand for implementation of Islamic Sharia as guaranteed in the constitution of Pakistan then one should support the terrorist act of 9/11 planed and executed by the United States Government.

    Whereas three out of four Americans [75 % of the population] now firmly believe that it was their own, the US government itself that clandestinely staged the coming down of the Twin Towers on September the eleventh, liberal extremists in Pakistan continue to hold steadfastly and faithfully on to the propaganda of Bush and his camp that it was Muslim Arabs who carried out the attacks.

    The only reason why I have spent a lot of time and energy in analyzing this post is to show moderate elements out there how the liberal extremist trolls cleverly guise their malicious intent against the fundamentals of Islam as innocent-sounding rhetoric in the best tradition General Pervez Musharraf who under guise of “enlightened moderation is wiping out every vestige of Islam from the country. Lets all beware.

    by Haq on Aug 4, 2007 at 2:28 am

  79. well u all say his demand and intension was to impose sharia…..can anyone tell me if it is granted or permitted which sharia would be imposed in pakistan….there are so many sects in pak…shia would demand their beleifs as shariat….sunnis n alhadis would like to have their beliefs as final verdict n there are innumerable firqas in pakistan….which shariat you talk about??????????
    one of you said why government does not take notice for killings by iltaf hussain in karachi…..well my dear every body is shouting that iltaf hussain did that y cant somebody rise above n be a witness in court of law, instead of shouting outside the court…..if cheif justice issue can be taken to court people should go to court again for iltaf hussain or anybody who is labelled as a murderer.
    has anybody noticed where mr ghazi’s wife is? she is with his family in f 10 n she was set free after usual investigation…..people claim government tht they have killed them or arressted them……if govt can arrest maulana aziz n his wife n many other people from lal masjid they can arrest rasheed’s wife as well in open…..she did not attend his funeral as well…..n i hv a clue i may be wrong she does not support him( wise lady)….n my residence is also in f 10 n i know her where abouts…..n ihv inquired from the neighbours n they confirm that she is with his family
    n mr ghazee was apaid employee or maulvi oof the masjid..he did not own the mosque…..if police tells u to leave or quit any citizen does not have a right to attack the police even claiming tht they have licensed weapons….u cannot challange the law…..-pak has good relations with china n the politicians in the past who were given safe passages according to u were not directly involved in killings or kidnapping of chinese…..but these ghazee brothers are….
    shihadat or jihad cannot be carried out like that…for example today i decide for jihad against govt n im killed its not jihad or shihadat.
    nobody can create a state within the state or do jihad etc against the king unless ” the king directly announces for kufr”…what ever they claim as fihashi etc its not tht it started in musharraf times…..it has been since pakistan was created as on the map of world…..
    everybody on tv has seen them with bamboos, weapons etc …they have destroyed shops of cd owners etc….who r they???? caliph????? they shd have provided them money for alternate business n these cd shops also contain quranioc cds…..they also were destroyed …at tht time nobody shouted tht quran ki baihurmati hui…..
    we or any body do not have the right to decide who is non muslim n who is not….their veiled students on geo said ” the soldiers who died durin operation were kafirs n were killed by Allah not us”…lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…..
    everything they have done like kidnapping etc was a reaction according to them…
    he used women n kids as a sheild ….my cousin was in the operation….he is in army…he said when ghazi was killed n they went inside many doors were locked n in every room there was suicide bomber….one was successful in blast n one was killed……
    anyways its a long debate….they were just fasadees n nothing else….

    by faisal on Aug 4, 2007 at 12:34 pm

  80. You want to "pick out, expose and set the record straight on disinformation" but at the same time you dont want to discuss with people with whom you dont share common point of reference because you cannot be convinced against your conviction about this particular matter.

    Just to remind you that it was you who engaged me and started the whole discussion. I believe that this in fact is the dilemna of our nation that we want others to agree with what we believe in but at the same time, we dont want to listen to others point of view. Allah is the best judge of who has malicious intent and who is spreading the disinformation

    [Haq said>>>If one is to accept your analogy as correct, then one who supports Ghazi Shaheeds demand for implementation of Islamic Sharia as guaranteed in the constitution of Pakistan then one should support the terrorist act of 9/11 planed and executed by the United States Government.]

    I make myself clear here i have no doubt that Pakistan was acquired in the name of Islam and Islam should be the basis of all the laws in Pakistan as guaranteed in the constitution of Pakistan.

    By "acts", i meant the wrong acts of Ghazi Sahib and 9/11 acts can not be justified even if any of such acts were towards a noble cause.

    One should also accept the fact that the following are criminal "acts" as per Pakistani law or even Islam does not allow such things:

    Illegal encroachment on a government land,

    Illegal occupation of a childerns' library,

    Kidnapping and illegal confinement of women,

    attack on businesses and forcing them to shut down,

    Kidnapping of policemen,

    Setting up parallel courts within a state against the laws of that state,

    Kidnapping and illegal confinement of foreigners,

    Snatching arms and equipments from security personnels,

    Firing and killing security personnels,

    damaging and burning, public and private property,

    Keeping arms and amuntion in a mosque for no apparent reason,

    not laying arms on the request of authorities and firing at security personnel during the leninecy period of 5 full days,

    keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endagering their lives (also many of them got killed during the operation).

    A person with an open mind will not accept that the above acts were committed so that Islamic Sharia laws could be implemented in the country.

    And when Ghazi Sahib agreed to surrender everything including his demand for Islamic system in return for a safe passage and honorable exit from the mosque (we heard live convesation on TV set), then people started questioning his sincerity for this noble cause of implementation of Islamic Sharia in the country.

    A lot of inncocent people died during the operation, which is very sad. But i fail to understand that when it was repeatedly announced for continuously five days that people inside should come out, and they will not be harmed, then what is the justification of anyone still hiding inside otherwise they wre being kept there against their own will.

    The way people have acted during Juma prayer on last friday has not painted a good picture of Islam and their demand for islamic sharia in the country. They ever tried to repaint the mosque in red, which is just bricks and cement and does not represent any ideology in itself.

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Aug 4, 2007 at 6:01 pm

  81. i love GHAZI SHAHEED………

    islam allow jihad to stop bad deeds ..such women selling there bodies ‘n’ man selling bad cd’s it is allowed in islam ……..
    burai ko hath say roko ……..
    u can’t kill someone on acting on islam

    by Bilal on Aug 4, 2007 at 9:42 pm

  82. Shaheeeeeeeeeed…………….
    pak army sold out …………..

    by Bilal on Aug 4, 2007 at 9:43 pm

  83. saadia Habib i agree with u……….

    by Bilal on Aug 4, 2007 at 9:45 pm

  84. OrdinaryPakistani,

    Actually islam is quite clear in this matter.

    regarding the governemnt and ruling by other than sharia please study surah Al Maidah in detail..

    verse 44 of surah maidah has

    Those who do not judge by Allah’s revelations they are the kafirun.

    http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=477
    http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=278

    regarding amr bil maruf.. its completely clear in islam..

    (from http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=345)

    Allah the Most High said: Let there be among you a community who enjoin good and forbid evil; it is they that shall be successful, [3:104] and: You are the best community that has ever been brought forth for mankind: you enjoin good and forbid evil, and you believe in God, [3:110] and: Those who repent, those who worship, those who praise, those who persevere, those who bow down, those who prostrate, and those who enjoin good and forbid evil, [9:112] and: Those of the Israelites who were unbelievers have already been cursed on the tongue of David and Jesus, son of Mary, for they were disobedient, and transgressed. They did not forbid one another from committing the evil that they wrought. What they used to do was foul indeed. [5:79] The Qur’an is full of passages which treat of this subject.

    Muslim relates on the authority of Abu Sa`id (radhiallahu `anhu) that the Prophet sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam said, “Whoever sees something evil should change it with his hand. If he cannot, then with his tongue; and if he cannot do even that, then in his heart. That is the weakest degree of faith.”

    He also relates on the authority of Ibn Mas`ud that the Prophet (sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam) said, “There was not a single Prophet among those who were sent before me who did not have apostles and companions and followed his Sunna and obeyed his commands. But afterwards other generations came whose words belied their deeds, and whose deeds were not in accordance with what they commanded others to do. Whoever struggles against the with his hand is a believer. Whoever struggles against them with his tongue is a believer. And whoever struggles against them with his heart is a believer. But when none of these things are done, then not a single mustard’s seed weight of faith is present.”

    Anyone doing amr bil maruf will ofourse be responsible for his actions if he is wrong. e.g. if Aunty Shamim was a naik parween.

    by osman on Aug 5, 2007 at 8:01 am

  85. Dear Osman…..I am happy that you are atleast discussing these things through logic and in the light of Islamic teachings which is also benefiting me in so many ways. At one time, I was asking myself: are the rulers of Pakistan or any other so called Muslim countries Kafirs, who will decide that and if they are, then isnt this the duty of every Muslim specially learned muftis and aalims to demand the implementation of Shariah laws, should such demand be with force etc.

    I did some research on my own and came up with the following answers for myself.

    I totally agree with you that it is the duty of every believer to carry out Nahi anil Munkar (stop others from evil). This is not the responsibility of a few individuals but the entire Ummah of our Nabi.

    A person is required to carry out Nahi anil Munkar according to his capacity and authority. For example a Qaadhi may do Nahi anil Munkar with force. A layman may carry out Nahi anil Munkar verbally by encouraging a person to refrain from Haraam. In some instances one cannot do Nahi Anil Munkar physically nor verbally, in this instance one should ponder over ways in trying to correct the wrong. It is therefore incorrect to state that Nahi anil Munkar can only be done with force or power.

    Also, a person should be held accountable if he accuses someone based on a wrong judgement and without any proper evidence. As far as I know, in islam, accusations like the one on Mrs. Shamim should be witnessed by four righteous (rasikh-ul-aqeeda) muslims. Some of the other acts of Lal Masjid people are also not justifiable (Illegal encroachment on a government land, Illegal occupation of a childerns library, Kidnapping and illegal confinement of women, attack on businesses and forcing them to shut down, Kidnapping of policemen, Setting up parallel courts within a state against the laws of that state, Kidnapping and illegal confinement of foreigners, Snatching arms and equipments from security personnels, Firing and killing security personnels, damaging and burning, public and private property, Keeping arms and amuntion in a mosque for no apparent reason, not laying arms on the request of authorities and firing at security personnel during the leniency period of 5 full days, keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endagering their lives, also many of them got killed during the operation)

    Allah says:

    “O you who believe, obey Allaah and obey His Messenger, and the people in authority among you. And if you dispute over anything, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger if you really believe in Allaah and the Last Day, that is best in terms of consequences.” (4:59)

    Allah Taala orders us to obey Allah, His Rasul [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] and the Ulul amr (people of law). The Ulul amr are Muslim rulers. In this respect, to obey Muslim rulers is part of faith as that is the order of Allah. In order to be a Muslim, one should say Kalma and also believe in the basic aspects of Deen. For example, Salaat, Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] being the final Prophet of Allah, Zakaat, Hajj, etc.
    If the governments of the Muslim countries do not rule by Shariah law, they are sinful but that does not take them out of the fold of Islam. Their un-Islamic activities are major sins. However, that does not constitute Kufr. Declaring someone as a Kaafir is a sensitive issue and we should exercise precaution on that.

    If the government rules against the Shariah, that is a major sin and cannot be accepted. I agree that people should not accept any rule of government which is against the Shariah. But in the case of lal masjid, there were no such orders where they were asked to carry out any unislamic acts. Many respectable Muftis and Aalims denounced their acts and no one came forward to support them during the course of this incident.

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Aug 5, 2007 at 5:46 pm

  86. [faisal >>>N THOSE IDIOTS WOMEN IN VEILS N MALE STUDENTSW [sic] WHO SURRENDER SHD HAVE DIED AS WELL]

    And they called those inside the Lal Masjid “Terrorists”! Ironic isn’t it!!

    by Haq on Aug 5, 2007 at 8:48 pm

  87. main dawat deta hoon mr faisal ko please aap aain aour mehsoos karain kh rojhan main kitni khushboo hay aour ghazi abdur rasheed ki qaber say kitni khushbo hay
    lal masjid main jitni talba&talibat jo mar gay wo shaheed hain jo bach gay wo ghazi hain

    by iqbal on Aug 5, 2007 at 11:42 pm

  88. [faisal>> well u all say his demand and intension was to impose sharia..can anyone tell me if it is granted or permitted which sharia would be imposed in pakistan.there are so many sects in pakshia would demand their beleifs as shariat.sunnis n alhadis would like to have their beliefs as final verdict n there are innumerable firqas in pakistan.which shariat you talk about??????????]

    “Only two things are infinite – the universe and human stupidity,” Einstein once remarked, “and I’m not sure about the former.” And I couldnt agree with him more. This is why I usually steer clear of posts the intelligence of whose content is directly proportional to the stupidity of their writers. But there, in the filth poured out in this post, there is a bone of contention I would like to pick on.

    This particular argument has been raised [more intelligently, off course] time and again by wayward liberals and miscreant liberal extremists on various platforms to make the idea of implementation of Shariah sound hopeless and impossible on the basis of the many sects that the followers of Islam have come to divide themselves into over the centuries with each sect having their own interpretation of the various aspects of the Shariah. Shaikh Rasheed, Minister of Railway, another liberal extremist who mouths his dictating presidents words day and night, in fact used just about the same words in answering a related question once on TV. What these liberal extremists are saying in other words is that Islamic Shariah cannot be implemented for this reason [or that] and should hence be abandoned in favor of the more liberal, secular and western laws. So effectively, being vigorously demonized by the west, the Islamic Shariah is being misrepresented by their friends, the liberal extremists in the Muslim world.

    To answer these miscreants, we need to first understand what Shariah actually means. All prophets have taught essentially the same Deen, the essence of which is to accept Allah as the ruler of the universe and the prophets as His representatives, each of whom have demanded their respective nations to obey what Allah has revealed as His Divine Law, the Shariah revealed for that particular nation.

    Shariah, or Islamic law, therefore guides Muslim behavior in every aspect of life, from matters between the individual and Allah to relationships with others, and also include matter like Islamic worship, Family relations, Inheritance, Commerce, Property law, Civil (tort) law, Criminal law, Administration, Taxation, Constitution, International Relations, War and Ethics etc. So it not only gives the guidelines to moral behavior in pure but also through various other facets of life. Nothing we do in our daily existence or through our lifetime falls outside the parameters of the dictates of Shariah.

    Major schools of Islamic law, or madhhabs or “ways of going”, had formed among Muslim communities by about 1100 CE. They were named after the pioneering jurists of early Muslim history: the Hanafi (after Abu Hanifa, 702-767 CE), the Maliki (after Malik ibn Anas, 717-801 CE), the Shafii (after Muhammad Idris al-Shafi, 769-820 CE), and the Hanbali (after Ahmed ibn Hanbal 778-855 CE), and the Jaafari or Imami (after Abu Jafar Muhammad al-Baqir and Jafar Sadiq, 702-765 CE)

    Although these madhhabs, or the various schools of thought differ in their approaches to handling the sources of the Divine law or in the way they apply principles of reaching decisions, they all agree on the sources of Islamic law are united on the original sources of guidance, the Quran and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad. Just as the same Deen can manifest itself into a number of different codes of life [for the nations of various prophets] it can also manifest, at a secondary level, into numerous schools of jurisprudence, all of which are in agreement regarding the fundamentals but differing in minor issues of detail. So to say “implementation of whose Shariah should one favour is a cleverly concealed way of showing disdain to Islam itself.

    Even in a country where they are a minority [1,591,000 forming 2.7% of the total population] 4 out of 10 British Muslims [40 percent of the muslim population] today want Shariah law introduced into parts of the country, a survey done by The ICM opinion poll for the dally Telegraph reveals. [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml]. Here in Pakistan liberal extremists are casting doubt over the Shariah itself, falsely calling it a fragmented unit of Islam just so that in comparison they can passionately advocate the secular liberalism they find so close to their hearts.

    When it comes to secular democracy, the question “whose rule should we let prevail since there are people who support different candidates the simplest solution chosen is considered by ALL to be the best, i.e let the majority decide and let their representatives rule. But when it comes to the Islamic Shariah, suddenly “whose Shariah should we let implement becomes the biggest bottleneck to the implementation of Shariah.

    In an Islamic republic like Pakistan, the majority Fiqh should be used as the basis for legislation or “Public Law” and the state should then give complete and absolute freedom to all its citizens to practice their own Fiqh in matters of worship, rituals, marriage and divorce laws, etc. The state should never interfere in these matters.

    Such an outcome would however never be acceptable to at least the liberal extremists who are all too happy to let the sectarian ambiguity of Islam keep the implementation of Shariah at bay. That is what ensures the enforcing of their secular liberal values on the rest of us.

    by Haq on Aug 6, 2007 at 2:54 am

  89. [>>>faisal: GHAZEE BASTARD KIS KHAIT KI MOOLI HAI] [>>>Arif: USS LAWANAY DI WOTI tai oday maran tai aai naionay wi shukar kita hona harami kolon picha chut gia]

    I may have serious disagreements with a person but i would never call them such names. But then agian, self-restraint is the culmination of a lifetime of good breeding. I would implore the more moderate forces out there to see for themselves the “enligtened moderation” inculcated by Musharraf in his ranks. May Allah help us all see things as they really are.

    by Haq on Aug 6, 2007 at 4:48 am

  90. well any muslim worth his name knows that maulana rashid died a death of highest grade martyr,he is definitely shaheed,,,he and his comapanions relived the karballa tragedy of 1400 years back,and just like imam husain lal mosque people gave away their lives for islam.may allah bless them and make other people like them
    army men did this lal mosque operation and killed 2000 women children and hufaaz e quran,,so these army men who did this operatrionb under order of taghut are munafiqeen or munkir ,they are no longer muslims as they obeyed order of taghut anmd ignored orders of allah,,
    i am happy too that i never went into army as being in army now means to kill mujahideen,and innocent hafiz e quran childrena nd women to please americans and their puppet rulers like musharaf

    by kashif on Aug 6, 2007 at 4:55 am

  91. as for people cursing ghazi rashid in above posts let them curse him,as they will not be able to decrease his status ,he still is shaheed..these people are spitting on moon so their spit will land on their own faces.such people will inshallah join our taghut rulers in hell .amen
    anyone with even an atom of islam knows that ghazi rashid was highest grade martyr and government and army people who did operation against lal mosque are munkireen or munafiqeen ,as they are killing muslims tro please kuffars.

    every one knows that ghazi rashids grave has such divine scent that people were amazed at his burial,,also the stones where jamia hafza s female students blood was spilled in islamabad these stones still give amazing fragrance due to blood of shahids…
    but some poeple have locks on their hearts as allah describes in quran,such people will never ever listen to or admit truth,,,but do not worry they will pay for it very soon inshallah and horribly too,as allahs justice is not far off

    by kashif on Aug 6, 2007 at 5:04 am

  92. islam orders muslims to follow allahs orders unconditionally and without any doubts,,if aour ruler either muslim or nonmuslim asks us to do something which is against islamic sharia then as muslims we have to refuse this no matter what price we have to pay ,if we follow our taghut rulers than allah will throw us also in hell .
    hazrat imam husain once said that a nation who does not rise up againmst its taghut rulers tahn such nation will also be thrown in hell fire along with their rulers
    then i give a very eye opening hadeeth from tibrani colection of hadeeth..which is

    “Hazrat muaaz ra narrates a hadeeth that prophet pbuh saida time will come when such leaders will rule muslims who will mislead the muslim societies into adopting nonislamic things.whoever will obey such rulers will be led astray and misguided ,and whoever will refuse to obey these taghut rulers will be murdered by them,,,people asked prophet (pbuh) that what should we do at that time? Prophet (pbuh) said do what prophet eesa and his companions did, who were cut in two by blades and who were crucified but they never obeyed such rulers neither did they give up their struggle against taghut or evil rulers (tibrani)
    So this hadeeth clearly tells us that dying in allahs way is much much better than leading a life against allahs will (even if you are made forcibly made to lead such life by your rulers etc etc).

    by kashif on Aug 6, 2007 at 5:13 am

  93. abdurashed was shaheed he was hero of pakistan.

    by danish on Aug 6, 2007 at 11:07 am

  94. Here is an interesting “open Letter” written to the Supreme Court of Pakistan by Prof. (Dr.) Anwar Ul Hague, a Chief Consultant Pathologist working in Islamabad.

    [http://pakspectator.blogspot.com/2007/07/open-letter-to-supreme-court-regarding.html]

    A thought-provoking excerpt form the letter: “When right in the center of Islamabad MacDonald of Bilal Musharraf [President Musharrafs son] can be built on expense of public healthy recreation activity site, why the government is bent to demolish Masajid?

    by Haq on Aug 6, 2007 at 12:37 pm

  95. well haq its interesting to read your post n ur lecture on breeding etc….im not in favour of personal abuse for anyone…be it ghazi sahib or be it musharraf but its my observation that political opposition to a general’s rule is clowding our minds from facts presented to us through various sources…what i do not understand is weather calling someone kafir / munafiq is a biiger abuse than the one u highlighted in ur post…i havnt found any post reacting to extremist comments posted by the ghazi brigade calling the security personal involved in the operation as kuffar.
    who gives someone the right to call any muslim as kafir? i may not agree with musharraf but nor do i agree with ghazi…however i would never call them kuffars…the matter of shihadat should b left up to God… i do know that it is a fashion now a days to criticize the army but many army men in 65 n 71 gave their lives for a righteous cause….i hv many such graves…i hv also visited shrines of the quaid jinnah sahib , sultan bahu, data ganj baksh but the fragrance mentioned to prove the rightousness of their causes was missing….ghazi sahib may hv been right or wrong his grave definitely has nothing to do with it…i do know that he n his brigade had weapons with whom muslims were killed….some in the army also maybe the culprits of taking innocent lives n all of them will b answerable to Allah.the Army operated under orders after days of negotiations…ghazi sahib could have avoided the bloodshed just by coming out.

    by nauman on Aug 6, 2007 at 1:21 pm

  96. shariat cannot be implemented thats clear…..pakistani nation is in a habbit of fussing around….shariat is not anyone’s property that he/she likes to implement in accordance with his wishes……
    whoever says ghazee n his fellows were on jihad …let me tell u jihad is not against muslims…..i will not call it shihadat …persons who died were dead coz of ghazi…who told them to remain inside…..when their leader escaped out y were they fighting….mr aziz said he came in burqa coz some politician suggested him to do this…..when govt was telling him to come out y dint he agreed…he was simply trying to run away…..
    my sister is a journalist n i went with her to mr ghazi’s grave n have visited jamia hafza many times after the operation….there is nothing which u call khusboo….n if somebody believes there is a fragrance then his followers might have sprayed themselves in a same way when people say govt put the weapons inside the mosque.
    yeh sab jihalat ki batein hain……he was a criminal n nothing else…..cheif justice jab 4 months tak sabar sai apna case court mai paish kar saktay hain aur insaf hasil klar saktay hain to mr ghazi ko bhi yehi rasta ikhtiar karna chahye tha agar unka koi prob tha tou….mosques give him donations n thts y he did not want to leave………
    jisco khud mosque k ehtram ka nahi pata dosron ko kia nasehat kar raha hai…..
    whoever support him shd hv joined him n die….
    khuda kay liyay movie mai there is a dialogue ” haram ka paisa jaib mai rakh kar halal gosht ki dukan dhondna”……
    jin logon ko jihad/islam ka nahi pata tht movie is for them
    ghazi sahib nai jan ka nuksan property or deegar jaraim ki fehrist aik tarf lekin jitna poori dunyya mai islam ko badnam kia hai uski talafi koi nahi kar sakta….
    islam means peace tou yeh peace hai???????? ajj tak kabhi kisi mandir/church mai aisa dekha hai……..n for your kind info the capt who died on the last day of op got married 8 months ago n was shot at the ladies surrender point by a man in burqa….
    in logon nai burqay ko badnam kar dia pori dunya mai……….
    yeh ghazi sahib logon ko gumrah karnay k zimadar hain……….aur inki gardan par itnai jano ka khoon hai…..
    hamray logon ki yehi adat burri hai k jo molvi keh raha hai wohi thek…molvi kisi ka qatal karay tou jihad….govt operation karay tou innocent logon ka murder….
    yehi saray darhi walay molvi thay na jo jab jamia hafza namaz k liyay kholi tou fasad kia wahan
    ISLAM MAI KIDAR LIKHA HAI K APP NAI AIK KHAS INSAN K PECHAY HI NAMAZ PARHNI HAI???????JISCO AITRAZ THA WOH WAHAN NA ATA ….KAHIN AUR PARH LETA JUMMA….TAB JAB JOTAY MAR RAHAY THAY AUR MASJID K OPER CHARHAY HUWAY THAY AUR FASAD PHILAYA HUA THA TAB YEHI HAMARI QAUM INKO SAHEEH SAMJH RAHI THI JUST COZ INKI BEARD HAI….THEY SAID IT WAS A REACTION OF THE OPERATION…..BAKWAS……
    KHUCH LOG YEH BHI KEH RAHAY THAY K YEH DRAMMA GOVT NAI APNAY BANDAY AKATHAY KAR K KIA HAI TAKAY LOG MOLVION KO BURRA KAHAIN….AGAR YEH GOVT K BANDAY THAY TOU JAMIA FAREEDIA KI FEMALES AUR GHZI BROTHERS KI SISTERS WAHAN KIA KARNAY AAIN THI???????????????
    IN SHORT GHAZI WAS A CRINMINAL/MURDERER

    by ayesha on Aug 6, 2007 at 1:25 pm

  97. Fifty clerics of Jamaat Ahl-e-Sunnat Pakistan issued a “Fatwa against the administration of Lal Masjid and declared the actions taken by Maulana Abdul Aziz and Maulana Abdur Rashid Ghazi to be un-Islamic. The Fatwa said that the Ghazi brothers had used the mosque for unlawful and immoral activities, which were hence un-Islamic. It also said that the Ghazi brothers un-Islamic actions were disguise as religious and because of which, Pakistan was looked down upon internationally.

    by ayesha on Aug 6, 2007 at 1:37 pm

  98. i totally agree with ayesha n nauman…all supporters of ghazi including mr haq sound very illogical when they support a criminal….i do not understand y mr ghazi never approached a court of law for all the ills he saw in society..
    mr haq has objected to bilal musharraf’s mc donalds …im not sure it is his or not but watever the matter shd b tried in court of law…no citizen has the right to take the law in their own hands….
    shariat does not mean tht u start killing muslims in the name of juhad…ghazi was definitely not a shaheed as he killed muslims n took the law in his own hands …the govt is also to blame as they mishandeled the situation…ghazi n his bro shd hv been arrested a lot earlier…

    by amina on Aug 6, 2007 at 10:40 pm

  99. yes amina is very right ….. by callind someone kafir (especially muslims) does not make anyone pious……yeh khusboo etc sab jihalat ki batein hain…..qabar poshi sai prophet nai bhi manna farmaya hai….logon ko islam ki saheeh knowledge nahi hai aur na hi jihad ka saheeh matlab patta hai isliye har woh shaks jo dehsgard ho aur unfortunately muslim bhi usko shaheed ya jihadi bana laein gai
    aisi bat hai tou phir suicide bombers bhi jihad kartay hain……….lack of knowledge

    by hamza on Aug 7, 2007 at 11:25 am

  100. nauman>>> well haq its interesting to read your post n ur lecture on breeding etc.]

    Here is another fine example of how liberal extremists practice the art of “sidetracking” very cleverly when they lance at the moderates and the conservatives. In this particular kind of sidetracking the aim is to inflate the non-issue in a particular argument, add hyperbole to it, then cut it down to size again, managing in the process to smartly evade the actual point raised and augment the one they want to make.

    This particular liberal extremist has sidetracked my point by not concentrating on its content but on its structure, calling it a “lecture on breeding which it is not by a wide margin. A ‘lecture’ by definition is “a speech or a lengthy rebuke…. 63 words of my post constitute neither a speech nor can they be dubbed lengthy. But having cleverly commented on the structure of the post, inflating its formation and then cutting it down to size by adding etc to it, the troll then comfortably goes on to side with those who have slandered and cursed a dead man by raising the issue of calling some a Kaffir.

    The point I had made in my post was that liberal extremists like the one’s running amuck on this blog are not stopping at slandering a dead man, Shaheed or no Shaheed, but are going to the extent of calling him a “bastard” and “harami” [may Allah forgive me] names I would not call my worst living enemy. That Islam forbids to curse is something we all know. Ibn Mas’ud reported said that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “A believer is not an attacker nor a curser nor someone obscene or abusive.” [at-Tirmidhi]. Abu’d-Darda’ reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “People who curse will not be intercessors nor witnesses on the Day of Rising.” [Muslim]. Abu Hurayra reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “It is not fitting for a truthful man to be someone who curses.” [Muslim]

    But then again its birds of a feather that stick together. By not acknowledging the fact that cursing a dead man is wrong by any standard, this liberal extremist has only claimed solidarity with those who are using filthy language to curse someone who is not on the earthy plane to defend himself. Like I said, its all about good breeding.

    by haq on Aug 7, 2007 at 5:23 pm

  101. [amina: mr haq has objected to bilal musharrafs mc donald]

    Liberal extremism when it is pitting itself against moderation, more often that not clouds judgment of the liberal extremists. A fine example is this response to my post.

    Anyone with an iota of grey matter can see that I have not “objected” to anything in my post. I clearly mentioned the source of what I was quoting and without giving my opinion about it, mentioned clearly that it made for an interesting read. How this came across as an “objection to this liberal extremist is anyones guess.

    by haq on Aug 7, 2007 at 5:33 pm

  102. I feel very sad after reading your comments. I am concerned that nowadays people are learning Islam from films. I think we should watch movies to learn Islam. We dont need to go to mosque or to Mullahs for Islam. What a Shame…..
    A have not trying to justify any shaheed or halak. What I want to say is that in Pakistan there are still many great Mullahs(Alims and Muftis) except those in MMA and Jamat-e-Islami where you can ask about your great religion on just a phone call they are waiting for your phone call.Please dont quote films as guidance for Islam.
    You are also quoting fatwa for Ghazi brothers and you have ignored the fatwa for not watching film ‘Khuda kay Lia’. It means that you only use fatwa according to your own likes or dislikes.
    You said, ‘hamaray log ki yahi adat buri hay molvi qisi kay qatal ka boldain’….. please specify what you mean by Molvi is that Ghazi or all Molvis or which Molvis.

    by adnan on Aug 7, 2007 at 5:46 pm

  103. Aysha, you used the word clerics as you said 50 clerics of Jamat Ahl-e-Sunnat. Are you so much inspired by westerned media that now you are using the same word as BBC and CNN used to use these words for our Saints.Having said that I am justifying You Ghazi brothers as saints or Shaheed.
    My question is which people in you opinion are Saints
    Shaib Mansoor.
    Any other Film Maker.
    coz you quoted Jihad from a film.

    by adnan on Aug 7, 2007 at 6:05 pm

  104. [amina >>> the govt is also to blame as they mishandeled [sic] the situation]

    This post reflects the typical mindset of men and women who in moderate and conservative circle are now being dubbed “Musharrafites“, and “Musharraf Lovers or MLs for short. These are liberal extremists who put blind faith in the dictator and his Messiah Complex, a term coined by Peter Bergen, CNN’s terrorism analyst who says, “Musharraf appears to have something of a Messiah complex, making him loath to relinquish any of his power…. Perhaps it is not surprising that a dictator would convince himself that only he can save his country. What is surprising is that Musharraf has managed to convince others as well.”]

    These Musharrafites take on faith his every lie, every deception and very u-turn he takes on everything he has ever said or done, just because he has given them the complete freedom to import and make use of the western bred sexual revolution into Pakistan. They have embraced wholeheartedly the new Deen-e-Musharrafi introduced by the dictator under guise of “enlightened moderation and cannot possibly be detracted from following closely in his footsteps.

    That is why only a Musharrafite would let their Messiah totally off the hook by calling his well-planned slaying of 2000+ rasikh-ul-akeeda musalman children, women and men “mishandling of the government. “Mishandling is what your Messiah accepted as having done when he had the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court humiliated at the hands of the police and later at the hands of his goons in the MQM when he visited Karachi on 12 May. What he did at Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza on 10 July was a massacre, more and more gory details of which are coming out everyday, in interviews of eyewitnesses, in leading newspapers, details your Musharrafite brain will never accept as true.

    And what “government is to be blamed for “mishandling the situation. What government are we talking about here???the rubber stamp the dictator uses ONLY when he needs to have his every unconstitutional move ratified in Pakistan? The government whose National Assembly he addressed ONCE in 5 years saying he had no time to address an “uncivilized Parliament?? Oh that government!

    by haq on Aug 8, 2007 at 12:40 am

  105. i donot understand y all of us want to step into the domain of ALLAH how can we decide who is shaheed jahanami or janati this is shirk political differences of some bloggers are clouding their judgment shahadat of masjid i hamza was a crime and those who did it should be taken to task but so was encroachment by jamia hafsa

    by hamza on Aug 8, 2007 at 2:37 am

  106. adnan> well adnan the word cleric seems to b a non derogatory word unless you want to create a mountain out of a mole hill…..never the less this was a cutting from a news paper n not my own words.moreover the term molvi refers to all the political maulanas includi ghazi bradran responsible for this fiasco.who would hv thought tht a mosque would b desecerated by abducting chinese women by launching tauhmat against mrs shamim( remember there r 4 witnesses required in islam)…
    my reason for mentioning the fatwa was to display tht a strong lobby of scholars differ with ghazi brigade…this goes 2 show u the impossiblilty of a mosque imam of imposing sharia PS my sister lives in G 6 …she prays 5 times a day n observes pardah…however she has to drive a car coz of comupulsions…she was attacked by the burqa brigade on the covered market road causing broken wind screen to her mehran n injuries to her face…mayb she also was a so called jahanummi for hifza brigade….as far as saints r concerned this is a purely christian concept i.e saint peter etc..im sure ur not a christian….
    yes ur correct wat a shame but for the wrong reasons we do not require to go to so called molvis like ghazi rasheed to learn the religion odf suicide bombings…the quran itself is a glorious guide if something is not understood from the quran then let sunnah b our guide…the prophet never spoke from masjid nabvi for suicide bombings…
    as far as learning from movies etc is concerned the prophet said k achi bat jahan sai bhi millay ikhtiar karlo…khuda kay liyay is by far a better representation of islam than that painted by the lal masjid….
    I DONT THINK SHOAIB MANSOOR IZ A SAINT BUT BY YOUR STANDARDS TOM CRUISE, DUSTIN HOFFMAN ETC WILL QUALIFY

    by ayesha on Aug 8, 2007 at 2:59 am

  107. haq sahib !!!!! there is a difference between your opinions vis a viz ur choice of opposition….u came out very strongly against ghazi brothers being abused but on the other hand u had not objected to the martyred soldiers , others namd as kuffars n jahannumi…they are also dead people n shd be respected irrespective of the fact that you or anybody is against them…
    i believe u rather enjoyed these poor soldiers being called kuffar coz of your political illwill against musharraf.
    u quoted a hadis which i believe would work bothways in this case for who can dare call a muslim kafir n subscribing jahannum to anybody is definitely shirk.i do believe tht many strong contenders were present inside the lal mosque.
    moreover u seem to be an expert at labelling people n effort to degrade them…u can abuse a person with a word liberal extremist n get away with it.u can also slander someone alleging on him a seperate deen musharrafi…im not a supporter by far of an army dictator remaining in power with the help of the mutahida maulvi alliance . BUT I HV STRONG OBJECTIONS ON U SLANDERING PPL WITHOUT PROOF….12TH MAY WAS A SAD DAY…I FULLY BELIEVE THT MQM WAS INVOLVED IN MANY OF THE KILLINGS BUT SO WAS JAMAT I ISLAMI N PEOPLE’S PARTY…ANY STUDENT WORTH HIS SALT KNOWS THE TYRANY WRECKED BY THE GOONS PF PSF AND JAMIAT IN COLLEGES ALL OVER PAK. EVEN MSF IS NOT FAR BEHIND…ITS BASICALLY A HAMAM OF SAINTS IN WHICH ALL R NAKED….
    LOG PUNJABI MAI BAAP KI GALI DETAY HAIN AUR APP TOU AIK HATH AUR BHI AGAY HAIN….APP LOGON KA KHUDA HI BADAL DETAY HAIN….BRAVO!!!
    try to be more objectiven realistic …a one sided hoopla is not interesting.

    by nauman on Aug 8, 2007 at 3:21 am

  108. [nauman>>> its my observation that political opposition to a generals rule is clowding [sic] our minds from facts presented to us through various sources]

    [amina >>> no citizen has the right to take the law in their own hands.]

    By “Citizen liberal extremists perhaps now mean “moderates and “conservatives exclusively. So Ghazi Abdul Rasheed Shaeed was a “citizen because he was “conservative and so he should not have taken the law in his own hands. But the Messiah of liberal extremists in Pakistan, their great General in the office is a liberal extremist himself and so the rule does not apply to him.

    It is precisely this selective application of law that is the root cause of the Jamia Hafza and Lal Masjid catastrophe. For which reason political opposition to Musharraf is VERY relevant to this debacle in the broader perspective since the dictator is holding the office of the president unlawfully, doing everything in that position for the last 8 years at the heels of breaking the supreme most law in the land, the Constitution of the Islamic republic of Pakistan. Not once, but many times over.

    A short glimpse of the past for those who have a short lease on memory highlighting the four decisive instances when Musharraf broke the Writ of the State, to get his way and to get where he is today:

    1. May 1999: As Chief Of the Army Staff, Musharraf went into Kargil, to take over Indian occupied Kashmir, without the knowledge and express permission of the then Prime Minister Main Nawaz Sharif. Previously, with Benazir Bhutto in power, he had tried to convince her to allow him to undertake a similar adventure and take over Srinagar, but she refused to comply. Then he was not the COAS so he relented. [http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007%5C04%5C09%5Cstory_9-4-2007_pg7_22] Nawaz Sharif ordered an enquiry into the affair, as claimed by PML(n) quarters which exposed Musharrafs incompetence that could get have gotten him court-martialed. [http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2066712.cms].

    2. October 1999: The Kargil disaster prompted the premier to remove Musharraf from his position against which he retaliated and toppled the democratically elected government, grabbing power in a coup d’état and dissolving the assemblies to assume the self-invented title of the Chief Executive. He thus totally undermined the position of the elected Parliament, undermining also the Constitution of Pakistan by suspending it. The very words he uttered breezily to proclaim his takeover is by the text of the Constitution treason to be punished by death. To avoid the possibility of that happening Musharraf declared a state of emergency in the country. By banning all political activities and rallies in the country, Musharraf undermined the political process and political parties.

    3. January 2000: When petitions were filed in court challenging Musharrafs unconstitutional assumption of power, Musharraf got The Oath of Judges Order 2000 issued, that required judges to swear allegiance to military rule at the expense of Pakistans constitution and to swear that that they will make no decisions against militarys rule, thus undermining the position of the countrys supreme judicial body, the Supreme Court of Pakistan.

    4. August 2002: Musharraf revived the constitution but not before he put forth the infamous Legal Framework Order (LFO), making 29 amendments to the constitution of Pakistan to give him power to dissolve the National Assembly whenever he wanted and to set up a supra-parliamentary body the National Security Council to ensure the permanent role of Pak Army in power. An amendment to the constitution is a prerogative of the countrys Parliament. Musharraf sidelined the Parliament and decreed the changes, yet another unconstitutional move on his part.

    4. April 2002: The Supreme Court of the General’s pleasing, ordered him to hold general elections by October 2002. To legitimize his presidency and assure its continuance Musharraf held a referendum to extend his term to five years. The referendum was rigged and large-scale irregularities were widely reported by the international media Musharraf admitted the irregularities saying he did not order them. [http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020517/world.htm#3] By rigging the consent of people Musharraf thus undermined the people of Pakistan.

    According to Fakhruddin G. Ibrahim, senior lawyer and former judge, Pakistans Constitution has no provision for that referendum which gave Musharraf five more years in power, leaving his continued rule with no legitimacy. “People were being made fools of, Ibrahim said of the referendum, adding that the vote’s lack of legal authority leaves Musharraf “not competent. Ibrahim has called for an end to military rule, saying Musharraf had received a stamp of approval from a subservient Parliament.

    It is custodians of the law – judges and lawyers who have called Musharrafs last five years in the office not competent, unconstitutional and “illegitimate. This makes every decision that he has made while holding that office not competent, unconstitutional and “illegitimate. Musharraf was an unconstitutional, not competent; ruler the day Ghazi Abdul Rasheed challenged his writ. Musharraf was an unconstitutional, not competent, ruler the day he sabotaged the negotiations between Ghazi sahib and his “subservient Parliament parliament. Musharraf was an unconstitutional, not competent, ruler the day he ordered the massacre of 2000+ people in a Masjid and a madrassah.

    Liberal extremists in Pakistan, who today accept, endorse, sanction, approve and support wholeheartedly Musharrafs illegitimate rule over the country, attempt forevermore to enforce their will on those who do not subscribe to their paradigm of bowing to dictatorship. And while they go hoarse screaming over the “breaking of the governments writ at the hands of moderates, conservatives and fundamentalists, they conveniently look the other way when it comes to Musharrafs continuing abuse of the law and the constitution of the country. Because he is a liberal extremist who they happily give the right to circumvent, bend, break or change every rule that was ever made. To them he is not just a citizen. That label is set aside or the likes of Ghazi Abdul Rasheed Shaheed.

    And so these extremists from the liberal ranks give a standing ovation to the annihilation sanctioned by an illegitimate ruler. Annihilation of those to whom breaking writ of a government, whose foundations its leader lay on the constitution he raped, was not breaking the law…it was a struggle to break the country free of shackles of a lawbreaker. For which they willingly lay down their lives. In his last message to the people of Pakistan Ghazi Abdul Rasheed Shaeed said, “They [the government and Musharraf] tried to force me into giving in to their tyranny. Their behavior is that of tyrants. They are the agents of tyranny. They are the agents of America. But I will rather die than give in to tyrants.

    by haq on Aug 8, 2007 at 7:28 am

  109. [Haq wrote on Aug 4, 2007: Up until 10 July, 2007 I stood in league of citizens of Pakistan who have supported Musharraf over the last 8 years thinking that his unconstitutional occupancy of the country came to be vital to our survival after 9/11. But people like me also saw that while the dictator used one hand for getting Pakistan out of troubled waters, he underhandedly put into motion a series of events aimed at rooting out Islam as deen from the country. Operation Silence/Sunrise was one such event he expertly masterminded.]

    It means that if there were no Lal Masjid incident, your support to Musharraf would have been continued despite “series of events aimed at rooting out Islam as deen from the country”.

    By picking out only that portion in a post, which is of interest and changing topic just for the sake of arguments instead of discussing and coming up with the answers to difficult questions from those who has different opinion on this matter is an interesting tactic. Criticizing others but at the same time abusing by calling others liberal extremists, branding those who like Musharraf as Musharraf Lovers and alleging that they have embraced the new Deen-e-Musharrafi could be taken as double standards.

    [Haq wrote on July 17, 2007: Justice will be served the day when Musharrafs mother is shot in front of his eyes and he sits there with her grey haired head in his lap, feeling her frail body struggle for breath, feeling the cold of death slide gradually on the woman who had given him life. And when she breaths her last, a grenade is fired on him, its shrapnel slicing through his throat leaving him barely alive to feel every bullet that slices through the body of his beloved daughter Ayla, whose burning corpse he sees turn into ash before death pierce through his uniformed body. That day the shaheed of Lal Masjid and Jamai Hafza would have been avenged. And people like me would have at last found peace.]

    I can understand how people incite violence and from where suicide bombers get their motivation. Rather than posting such comments, one should tell others the lesson of forget and forgive, which is very difficult but at the same time highly appreciated act in Islam.

    By the way, what is your opinion: Are any of these suicide bombers Shaheed and can we say that they are carrying out their religious duty towards any noble cause?

    [Haq wrote on Aug 8,2007: Annihilation of those to whom breaking writ of a government, whose foundations its leader lay on the constitution he raped, was not breaking the lawit was a struggle to break the country free of shackles of a lawbreaker. For which they willingly lay down their lives. In his last message to the people of Pakistan Ghazi Abdul Rasheed Shaeed said, “They [the government and Musharraf] tried to force me into giving in to their tyranny. Their behavior is that of tyrants. They are the agents of tyranny. They are the agents of America. But I will rather die than give in to tyrants.]

    [Haq wrote on Aug 4, 2007: Changed for ever by what I witnessed on 10 July, I will never be able to forgive myself for not having been there by Ghazi sahibs side to help him in a cause that goes beyond individual interests, beyond national interests and beyond what is so popularly being called the “writ of the governmentthe enforcing of Allahs writ in a land whose constitution guarantees the implementation of that writ.]

    No one argues that that Pakistan was acquired in the name of Islam and Islam should be the basis of all the laws in Pakistan as guaranteed in the constitution of Pakistan.

    However, it is still not clear from these posts whether Ghazi Sahib was fighting for the implementation of Islamic Shariah or to remove Musharraf from presidency and army chief post in order to break the country free of shackles of a lawbreaker. In his negotiations, Ghazi Sahib was using the same tactic and changing his stance every time and in the last, Ghazi Sahib agreed to surrender everything including his demand for Islamic system in return for a safe passage and honorable exit from the mosque

    If you so wholeheartedly support all of the Ghazi Sahibs actions and his noble cause, then why you are not doing the same by “breaking the country free of shackles of a lawbreaker and willingly lay down your life”.

    Wrong is wrong and it does not become right because intentions were good. Wrong acts of anybody should not be justified only because these acts were carried out as a retaliation of something or they were towards a noble cause.

    Just imagine about the situation if every person starts acting the same way: take up arms and fight against the government. If they were right and there was nothing wrong with their actions, then it should be the duty of every mufti, every aalim and every Muslim to do the same. But this is not the case.

    No one will agree that the following acts were for “a struggle to break the country free of shackles of a lawbreaker” or “for the implementation of Shariah laws:

    Illegal encroachment on a government land,
    Illegal occupation of a childrens library,
    Kidnapping and illegal confinement of women,
    attack on businesses and forcing them to shut down,
    Kidnapping of policemen,
    Setting up parallel courts within a state against the laws of that state,
    Kidnapping and illegal confinement of foreigners,
    Snatching arms and equipments from security personnel,
    Firing and killing security personnel,
    damaging and burning, public and private property,
    Keeping arms and ammunition in a mosque for no apparent reason,
    not laying arms on the request of authorities and firing at security personnel during the leniency period of 5 full days,
    keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endangering their lives (also many of them got killed during the operation).

    [Haq wrote on Aug 4, 2007: Please allow me to clarify my intentions for posting on this or any other blog on this particular subject. My objectives for doing so are far removed from engaging anyone in a discussion or a debate. I am totally not interested in letting myself be drawn into endless arguments with people with whom I share no common point of reference because I cannot be convinced against my conviction that thousands of rasikh-ul-aqeeda musalman men, women and children were unjustifiably MASSACRED in Operation Silence/Sunrise by the orders of a tyrant. Neither do I wish to convince any liberal extremist to the contrary.]

    If you dont want to discuss with people with whom you dont share common point of reference because you cannot be convinced against your conviction about this particular matter, then what is the point in posting all these messages when you are not ready to listen to others point of view.

    First of all, there is no solid evidence that thousands of people died. If so many people have died and everything is so obvious with so many indications, then why is anyone not going to court? Secondly, when it was repeatedly announced for continuously five days that people inside should come out, and they will not be harmed, then what is the justification of anyone still hiding inside OR they were being kept there against their own will.

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Aug 8, 2007 at 2:27 pm

  110. haq) i agree with ordinar pakistani coz u r a master of avoiding the actual issue n confusing it with lessons in history…lets call a spade a spade…if musharraf is wrong on many issues he is wrong….he is not wrong coz he doesnt hv a beard or live in a mosque…he is wrong coz of legal n constitutional issues if proven in COURT OF LAW
    however ghazi sahib was wrong coz he admitted on a number of times to crimes comitted…robbing a bank for jihad would not validate robbery similarly killing muslims in the name of jihad abducting women in the name of jihad cannot validate these crimes….he n his bro shd be punished according to the law of the land….lets not confuse the issue …a criminal using a mosque n a madrissa remains a criminal weather he wears a burqa has a beard is besides the point….
    moreover ur political antipathy to musharraf is not understood fully….coz u hv not highlighted whom do u stand with…if ur a follower of the suicide bombers who kill without care destroying innocent lives then Allah have mercy on your soul…if ur a supporter of the mma then plz justify the 17th ammendement n the govt’s in quetta n peshawar…if somebody else then plz tell us who tht angel iz coz ur current leader ghazi rasheed appears to hv had a very cunning n criminal mentality….
    moreover ur comment about the judiciary appears a misnomer as the cj has been restored by the same judiciary…other cases shd n wud be decided on merrit like steel mills , pso etc….
    i would quote two incidents for those who r trying to enforce sharia…my entire family prays 5 times a day as other muslims,,,,women observe the hijab but many women amongst us have to drive coz of family reasons…my sis was attacked by burqa clad women infront of jamia hifza while she was bringing back her kids from school…as a result her car was wrecked n she recived minor injuries…thanks God she did not stop otherwise she might have been killed or kidnapped…..in my village in fsd lal mosque is reputed to b a haven for terrorist for the only shaheed’s body we received from lal mosque was a mafroor qatil wanted for 5 murders…..
    haq sahib shd clarify if the purpose of keeping weapons in a mosque even if only 15 rifles …y did the students hv gas masks n who gave it to them…as a citizen of islamabad i can point out numerous areas of immoral activities …nobody knew f8 …pir vidhai was more famous…y only chinse were targeted? clearly a us ploy here…moreover y did ghazi sahib leave the brother of an mma mna caught from f8 if something illegal was being done…in his blogs haq sahib convienently forgets the issues facing pakitan n follows a srictly anti musharraf campaign….
    I WUD call ghazi sahib a bigger tyrant than all coz who else wud put to risk the lives of innocent children to justify his crimes….also whoelse wud provide an escape route to his entire family aside from one or two n endanger the lives of women children n security personnal.ghazi in my opinion was not willing to face the law.
    U HAVE TRIED TO TARGET MUSHARRAF’S MOTHER N DESCRIBED UR WISH ON HOW SHE SHD DIE…THAT DESCRIBES A VERY VERY SICK MENTALITY…I WILL NOT TALK ABOUT UR BREEDING COZ THT IS TOO BELOW THE BELT..HAVE SOME SHAME.

    by nauman on Aug 8, 2007 at 3:22 pm

  111. [>>> ayesha: my sister lives in G 6 she prays 5 times a day n observes pardahhowever she has to drive a car coz of comupulsionsshe was attacked by the burqa brigade on the covered market road causing broken wind screen to her mehran n injuries to her facemayb she also was a so called jahanummi for hifza brigade]

    This is either a completely fabricated story or an unrelated incident placed strategically in this post to bolstering a spin. Liberal extremist trolls use the tactic of making up an incident involving the loss of a loved one that never took place and introduce it into the argument to gain sympathy for them and subsequently soften reader opinion for their case. Inversely, to serve the same purpose. they quote an incident that might actually have taken place but in different circumstances and in unrelated sequence of events.

    The spin of this liberal extremist troll is that the rasikh-ul-aqeeda musalman women of the Jamia Hafza were baton bearing madwomen who beat around women drivers indiscriminately on the roads because driving in their belief system was haram. This is farthest from the truth and perpetuation of the propaganda of the liberal extremist NGOs and their sympathizers who built a whole case against students of the Jamia Hafza based on the blatant lie that they threatened unveiled women and women drivers with vitriolage [acid throwing].

    Ghazi Abdul Rasheed Shaheed repeatedly implored members of the civil society in his interviews to the press and TV, and in his sermons in the mosque to not heed to this Musharrafite propaganda and strategic relay of disinformation. He beseeched everyone exposed to such disinformation to contact him directly to confirm first hand authenticity of lies attributed to the student of Jamia Hafza.

    The fact of the matter is that students of Jamia Hafza never tried to forcibly impose purdah on any unveiled woman. I would personally be against such an enforcing because neither my mother nor my sisters observe/don the Islamic hijab. But I know it for a fact that this is little more than a barrage of disinformation still being spread by liberal extremists as part of the continuing exercise aimed at tarnishing image of the [Shaheed/ghazi] students of Jamia Hafza and subsequently everything that they stood for. That this particular troll hasnt done her homework before maligning the dead is obvious from the fact that Ghazi Abdul Rasheeds wife herself drove a car. If what this troll is suggesting were true, by that token, the students of Jamia Hafza would have smashed her car and her face before anyone elses.

    Since 10 July, 2007 the day the massacre occurred at Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza, leading newspapers including daily Ummat have been printing stories, personal accounts and interviews of survivors and those living in the vicinity of the mosque. Not one account printed validates the violent behavior of the students of Jamia Hafza that this troll and the likes of her are suggesting.

    In my opinion liberal extremist trolls are using shrewd tactics to malign the Jamia Hafza and Lal Masjid uprising to serve the purposes of their leader Musharraf. If this troll, or any other liberal extremist wishes to recount a “harrowing tale describing the violence they suffered at the hands of the students of Jamia Hafza, with validation of proof, please let me know. I will interview them personally and objectively and have their account printed in the paper. Also, it would help the cause of their liberal extremism if their account were to become part of the document being prepared currently, comprising information being chronicled regarding the massacre conducted during Operation Silence/Sunset ad the events led up to it.

    by haq on Aug 8, 2007 at 6:39 pm

  112. This is the same old tactic of picking up a portion in a post to justify Ghazi sahib’s actions and avoid giving answers of difficult questions from those who have different opinion on this matter. How are you so sur that Ayesha was lying. Everyone saw students of Jamia Hafsa with batons and also some with guns, damaging the public and private property. They also put on fire a few government buildings in the process. Please put some light: was it for the implementation of Islamic Shariah or to to break the country free of shackles of a Musharraf.

    [Haq wrote on Aug 6,2007: I may have serious disagreements with a person but i would never call them such names. But then agian, self-restraint is the culmination of a lifetime of good breeding.]

    What would you say if someone abuses others by calling them liberal extremists, liberal extremist troll, miscreants, Musharrafs minions, Musharraf Lovers, Musharrafites and alleging that they have embraced the new Deen-e-Musharrafi. [Haq wrote on Aug 7, 2007: Its all about good breeding.]

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Aug 8, 2007 at 8:56 pm

  113. haq> app haq sai kafi door hain…i hv read most of your posts n hv concluded tht u r mentally sick n weirdo….on one side u talk about rasikh ul aqeeda muslims n shariat etc n on the other hand u slander females with gusto…deen pai chalna waqai app jaisay logon k liyay mushkil hai…app prophet ki unn sunnat par amal nahi kartay jo apko suit nahi karti ..app misak e madina aur fatah makkah ki spirits sai nawaqif hain….jihad is not ur issue neither is its islam…u only want to kill ppl due to ur own mental frustration/sickness…
    students of jamia hifza never forcebly tried to enforce sharia hahaha…who abducted mrs shamim? n chinese n policemen? aliens or cia .
    ur own agenda is not sharia or ghazi…ur just an anti musharraf person…plz tell us who is ur leader….
    the word troll is slang for a woman with lose character…you being a sharia loving man r projecting ur brand of sharia as tht of a women slanderer…mayb you also like the traditions of wanni n sawara n maybe mariage to quran as well a sick frustrated person like u shd not even be permitted near women what to talk abt interviewing them….your approach iz tht I AM THE BEST N IM RIGHT.everyone else is wrong…..deen musharfi ka tou pata nahi but “DEEN HAQI” aur uski shariat mujhay manzoor nahi…for your kind info ghazi sahib n his students in many interviews have confessed to numerous reactions n their counter actions…ghazi tou masjid k mimbar sai bhi suicide bombing ki tableegh kartay thay shaid apkay nazdeeq jihad n islam yehi hai……qabar sai khusbu ana to bidat mai sai hai lekin sheshay meri aur ayesha ki sis k bhi tootay …Allah hum sab ko aisay logon sai apni aman mai rakhay n i dont care u believe this incidence or not coz every body else is uncivilzed , illeterate stupid except you whereas its just the opposite

    by nauman on Aug 8, 2007 at 10:05 pm

  114. yet another typical tactic of trolls to gang up against anyone rocking the boat of their trolling. a chat room tradition imported to blogs…’ganging up’ with other trolls is aimed at disorienting the opponent with mulitple posts. Of little consequence to anyone who understands the tactic.

    by haq on Aug 8, 2007 at 10:28 pm

  115. mr haq you r sick n u argue on irrelevant issues ……. u can blame president for his wrong actions….could u plz justify ghazi n his actions in the light of Quran…..y u compare ghazi n musharraf in first place…they hv no comparison….neither u can justify ghazi by pinpointing musharraf blunders..he was an imam of a masjid n paid employee…the mosque was not his personal property…..
    u say musharraf is an american agent…MIGHT B …BUT SO WAS GHAZI…..everybody saw on tv wat they used to don u call it fake…..amazing
    i agree with ordinary pakistani n nauman n im sorry to say ur choice of words is very bad…apka apna religion konsa hai????????? musharraf ka to app nai bata dia…..apka phir “deen e ghazi’ ho ga….liberal extremist hona tou shaid itna burra nahi jitna islam ki dhijian bakhairna…..ghazi sahib bhi donations sai weapons khareed kar jihad kartay thay wah ji wah…..woh islam k thaikadar hain k decide karain who is mushrik n who is muslim……suicide bomber bhi apkay ghazi sahib ki tarh shaheed honay ko prefer karta hai….meray nazdeek ghazi sahib shihadat ki maut nahi albata khudkushi sai iss dunya sai rukhsat huway hain…..dosron ko shihadat aur jihad ki advice denay sai pehlay unko apni bhabhi aur bhai ko bhi jihad ka sabak dai detay…..chalo ghazee shaheed tha apki nazar mai …jo bhi hua acha hua “khas kam jahan pak”

    by rahim on Aug 8, 2007 at 10:33 pm

  116. haq> khuch parh likh lou phir bat karna…waisay tumhari language boht gandee hai…shaid apka deen apko yehi sikhata hai…..agar apko koi support nahi kar raha tou apko samjh lena chahye…aqalmand k liyay ishara kafi hota hai…..lekin aqal apkay passs………iM NOT SURE :))))))))))

    by rahim on Aug 8, 2007 at 10:39 pm

  117. [nauman>>> students of jamia hifza never forcebly tried to enforce sharia hahahawho abducted mrs shamim? n chinese n policemen? aliens or cia]

    Another example of misconstruing one of posts by a liberal troll. I never EVER said that students of Jamia Hafza “never forcibly tried to enforce Shariah. What I wrote was, and I quote: “The fact of the matter is that students of Jamia Hafza never tried to forcibly impose purdah on any unveiled woman.

    by haq on Aug 9, 2007 at 12:13 am

  118. Aysha> I feel sorry for what happened to your sister by the female students of Lal Masjid. damaging your sister’s car and hurting her is not justified and unacceptable whether or not she pray 5 times,or observes parda.
    God knows better who is jahunami and who is not.
    There are many Saints(Buzurgs,Alims,Mufti’s) in Pakistan where anyone can learn religion.
    You said that Holy prophet said to learn goods things from wherever you can get those.so you find a cinema to learn good things.very good indeed.you forgot what Islam tells u about films,music,etc. Now you may say where it is written in Quran that you cannot watch films?

    Political Moulvi’s are the most corrupt people in politics. these are the people who are damaging the image of Moulvi’s. But please remember Majority of Moulvis in Pakistan are not like them.(I am not a Molvi but I am trying to become a molvi and I will Insahallah).
    Suicide Bombing> I condemn suicide bombing but I dont understand whenever there is a bomb blast not only in Pakistan anywhere in the world..we always hear suicide attack or suicide bomb blast.How do the press knows even before the police that it was a suicide bomber and the a muslim suicider. having said that I dont mean that their are no suicide bomb blast so far.Suicide bombing is conspiracy against muslims.
    It is a habit Pakistanis to mourn and criticize our own people. Why dont we criticize Hindus,Israel,America or Europe. We never critize them. we try to follow them and do everything to look like them, think like them,speak like them,etc. How many of us try to look like Muslim Men and Women?
    West is trying to making it difficult as they are trying kill the image of Moulvis,Muslims,Burqa,Namazi,Mujahid,Mosque,and everything which specifies a muslim. West is ok with moderate or modern muslims(half muslims and half christian or half whatever)
    CONDEMN WRONG DOINGS BY SAYING THAT PERSON IS WRONG DONT SAY MOLVIS ARE WRONG.
    SHOAIB MANSOOR CANNOT BE YOUR SAINT.

    by adnan on Aug 9, 2007 at 12:17 am

  119. [What would you say if someone abuses others by calling them liberal extremists, liberal extremist troll, miscreants, Musharrafs minions, Musharraf Lovers, Musharrafites and alleging that they have embraced the new Deen-e-Musharrafi]

    The troll has used the clever tactic of “lumping in which various sentences taken from various posts, and thus out of context, are bracketed together to make them look like they have been said in a flow, adding thus a whole new dimension to their meaning which serves better their own agenda of making those who dont share their views sound less effective in their argument.

    Clearly siding with those who have used the most derogatory terms for a dead man by totally avoiding condemning the use of such language, these trolls in the best tradition of Internet trolling are spending energies on putting a spin on whatever I say to defend the good name of Ghazi Abdul Rasheed Shaeed and his students.

    Put in their right context, NONE of the terms I have used that have been to look like they were used as insults are derogatory.

    [>>> Posted by Haq on Aug 6, 2007: What these liberal extremists are saying in other words is that Islamic Shariah cannot be implemented for this reason [or that] and should hence be abandoned in favor of the more liberal, secular and western laws. So effectively, being vigorously demonized by the west, the Islamic Shariah is being misrepresented by their friends, the liberal extremists in the Muslim world. To answer these miscreants, we need to first understand what Shariah actually means.]

    1. LIBERAL EXTREMIST: The term “Liberal Extremist is neither derogatory nor insulting. And does not qualify in the least to be a slander. Far from it, it is a legitimate label that identifies a certain group of people who subscribe to certain socio-political ideologies on the politico-social spectrum. In the changing global realities where the west has launched a crusade on Islam their media in collaboration with their crusading leaders has universally and permanently tagged rasikh-ul-aqeeda Muslims as “fundamentalist and “extremists, labeling mujahideen as “terrorists. With the war of civilizations having come home at last, and our complete bowing to the “with us or against us doctrine, the nation today is clearly divided into people who subscribe to that doctrine and those who oppose it. The degree of that opposition at its extreme is producing the likes of Ghazi Abdul Rasheed Shaheed and the degree of its support at its extreme is birthing those who annihilated him and his compatriots.

    It thus becomes imperative in this ideologically fragmented society that we speak on issues by declaring our paradigm. That declaration forms the basis of marking labels on the socio-political spectrum from the extreme Right to the extreme Left labels like Ultraconservative/Ultraorthodox, Conservative, Fundamentalist, Moderate, Liberal, and Liberal Extremist [also used interchangeably with the term Secularist] On a related spectrum terms used for identifying ideological inclination include, democrats, neoconservatives, socialists, communists and so and so forth.

    Interestingly enough, the first time the term “liberal extremists was used on a public forum in Pakistan was by Musharraf himself when he expressed disdain about them while addressing the nation on TV in the wake of the passing of the Women Protection Bill.

    2. MISCREANT: One of the definitions of the word “Miscreant offered by the free internet dictionary is “one who disbelieves [a derivative of Old French 'mescreant', present participle of 'mescroire', to disbelieve], the meaning in the context of which I had used that word. And whereas the word has not been used as an insult by a long shot, I strongly believe that “people who say that Islamic Shariah cannot be implemented for this reason [or that] and should hence be abandoned in favor of the more liberal, secular and western lawsare miscreants. indeed.

    [By Haq on Jul 31, 2007 Only Musharrafs minions could rationalize for flame throwers, white phosphorus and heavy artillery shelling to have been used for neutralizing 250 odd men their leader claim to have killed during the attack]

    3. MINIONS: The free internet dictionary offers three definitions of the term “minions (1) An obsequious follower or dependent (2) A subordinate official (3) One who is highly esteemed or favored; a darling. The term is a derivative of the French word “mignon, meaning “darling, from Old French mignot, mignon. [http://www.thefreedictionary.com/minions] How any of these meanings constitute an insult can only make sense to the mind of a tfroll.

    [>>> Posted by haq on Aug 8, 2007: They have embraced wholeheartedly the new Deen-e-Musharrafi introduced by the dictator under guise of “enlightened moderation and cannot possibly be detracted from following closely in his footsteps.]

    4. DEEN-E-MUSHARRAFI: There is a thing called metaphor. A metaphor is a “figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison. And it was in that context that I used the term Deen-e-Musharrafi. My use of this metaphor indicated the strong bond liberal extremists have formed with certain policies of the Musharraf regime regarding enlightened moderation. Its common knowledge that Musharraf has not initiated a religious cult. Nor has he organized a religion. So to construe from my metaphor that I am calling anyone an infidel by associating them with Musharraf through this metaphor is irresponsible and absurd.

    [>>>Posted by haq on Aug 8, 2007: This post reflects the typical mindset of men and women who in moderate and conservative circle are now being dubbed “Musharrafites“, and “Musharraf Lovers or MLs for short.]

    5: MUSHARRAFITE: Just as people who live in Karachi are termed Karachittes, people who subscribe to the tyranny of Musharraf are called Musharrafite or Musharraf Lovers. I seriously fail to see the derogation these terms cause. They are descriptive terms that have come to be popular in certain circles which is where I have picked them from.

    Sherry Rehman, a most wonderful LIBERAL politician and parliamentarian of the Pakistan Peoples Party said to me during an interview once that taking things out of context when questioning credibility of a bias runs the risk of making the question prejudiced. And I concur!

    by haq on Aug 9, 2007 at 3:27 am

  120. [>>>Ordinary Pakistani How are you so sur that Ayesha was lying.]

    One tactic used by trolls is to substitute [what they feel they can troll over] with a word of their own choosing while questioning the credibility of a post.

    I NEVER said that the person posting under the handle Ayesha was lying. What I had actually said was, and I quote: “This is either a completely fabricated story or an unrelated incident placed strategically in this post to bolster a spin. Whereas a fabrication MAY be used for deceiving [or may not be used for that purpose] a “lie is inevitably ALWAYS intended to deceive. I had speculated that either the story told was a fabrication or that THERE WAS A POSSIBILTY THAT THE INCIDENT CITED DID TAKE PLACE INSDEED but perhaps in different circumstances and was being quoted to strategically authenticate the point made. None of the newspapers since the start of Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza saga this year have reported a violent attack of students from Jamia Hafza of the nature ayesha has described.

    And the same token by which this troll questions me as to how I know for sure that “Ayesha was lying, he has no way of knowing if ayesha was indeed telling the truth. But since her citing of the incident validates his own ideology, he feels he can take ayeshas word on faith but is quick to poke a trolling lance in my post because my word negates his viewpoint.

    by haq on Aug 9, 2007 at 4:19 am

  121. The following posts are a clear indication how trolls from the ranks of liberal extremists are audaciously convoluting the perspective of moderates and conservative regarding the Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza Massacre by making personal attacks at the latter. These trolls deliberately draw up incorrect conclusions from a post, present the drawn conclusion as a lack of competence of those whose views they do not share, diminishing their stature in the process so as to render their viewpoint ineffective.

    [nauman >>> on one side u talk about rasikh ul aqeeda muslims n shariat etc n on the other hand u slander females with gusto]

    I have not once slandered any female or male “with gusto or without it in any of my posts on any of the blogs I post on.

    To begin with, it is impossible to “slander someone who posts a comment on a blog under an identity expressed through a handle/nick that does not guarantee for readers to know their actual identity, including gender and age.

    The dictionary defines “slander as words falsely spoken that damage the reputation of another or an abusive attack on a person's character or good name. “Reputation is defined as “the general opinion of the public towards a person, a group of people, or an organization.

    Sitting in front of the computer screen, punching words on a keyboard in response to a post made with a handle whose name, identity, place in society or reputation they have in public I dont even know, it would be next to impossible for me to attack their “good name. All I can do is comment on their viewpoint and not their person.

    [nauman >>>the word troll is slang for a woman with lose characteryou being a sharia loving man r projecting ur brand of sharia as tht of a women slanderer]

    The free dictionary on the internet gives seven definitions of the word troll. None matches the one posted as “a woman with a loose character. [<a href="http://http://www.thefreedictionary.com/troll"target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/..." target="_blank">www.thefreedictionary.com/troll]

    When using the word troll the very first time, I had very clearly mentioned what I meant by it. [Posted By Haq on Aug 4, 2007 >>> trolling [deliberately posting false information in order to bait naive users, who believe in an ideology passionately but are not eloquent enough to word their argument, into responding so that they can tear apart their ineloquence with their cold logic making it sound that they have won the argument]

    In the context I have used the word troll throughout my posts is defined by wikipedia as “ An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who intentionally posts messages about sensitive topics constructed to cause controversy in an online community. [by haq on Aug 9, 2007 at 4:45 am

  122. [>>>adnan: Political Moulvis are the most corrupt people in politics. these are the people who are damaging the image of Moulvis. But please remember Majority of Moulvis in Pakistan are not like them]

    Well said. I totally agree to that although i think it is a very small minority of Moulvis who are worth their salt in Pakistan.

    by haq on Aug 9, 2007 at 12:03 pm

  123. [rahim>>> u say musharraf is an american agent]

    Another instance of misquoting. I never in any of my posts called Musharraf “an american agent”.

    What I did say was, and I quote: In his last message to the people of Pakistan Ghazi Abdul Rasheed Shaeed said, “They [the government and Musharraf] tried to force me into giving in to their tyranny. Their behavior is that of tyrants. They are the agents of tyranny. They are the agents of America. But I will rather die than give in to tyrants.

    I was quoting Ghazi Abdul Rasheed [translated] verbatim.

    by haq on Aug 9, 2007 at 12:20 pm

  124. for your kind information haq sahib things come in news papers if they are reported to them…..my sis is not a vip tht a reporter follws her whereever she is going n if something happens to her its reported on media…
    my cousin had an accident in bhara kahu n he died last yr….i even did not read abt tht accident in any newspaper…though many accidents r reported on news channels n papers…..
    everybody has seen wat jamia hifzians used to do n if u think im lying etc it does not matter….rest of the things they hv done have been reported n admitted by them…..
    basicaly their stance to every crime be it kidnapping, destruction is….” woh tou hamara falani falani bat ka rad i amal tha”"…..
    u said ordinary pakistani doesnt know im speaking the truth but he believes me coz our ideology is same……same is true for you…..u hv no objection for ppl who call soldiers/policemen/rangers as kafir etc but wen it comes to jamia hifza it pinches u like anything….

    by ayesha on Aug 9, 2007 at 1:18 pm

  125. [Rahim: haq> khuch parh likh lou phir bat karnawaisay tumhari language boht gandee haishaid apka deen apko yehi sikhata hai]

    Another liberal extremist troll posting accusations without having any clue what he is talking about. Across the board he accuses me of using “bohat gundee language without bothering to cite an example or talk about issues at hand.

    I think i asked u to comment on one issue …u also like to pick points from posts n manipulate or try to change the concentration n direction of the topic.
    well you have stated president’s actions in detail with references…..
    Please justify /throw light on ghazi n students actions of kidnapping/destruction n everything they are alleged n which they have comitted in the light of holy quran….as u call him shaheed it means u support his actions /intentions whatever….

    by rahim on Aug 9, 2007 at 1:41 pm

  126. How can u say that i have not read quran….molvis r not the only sources of learning quran…i wont comment about order in quran sunnat on movies/music etc……y do u watch tv not movies but even news…..if its nots allowed y u hv cable in your house( dont say u dont hv),,y molvis etc come on tv to give lectures…y they have made their seperate channels like qtv or peace tv…..
    i said tht movie is true projection of what is going on in Pakistan…can u deny it???? Aren’t these molvis misguiding the ppl in the name of jihad……
    u can learn good things form any body..u do not hv to carry a tag of a molvi to learn about islam…i did not learn anything from tht movie…i just supported it by saying thts whats going on in pak.
    mr ghazi sahib himself called for suicide bombing n i do not know its in media or not but one of the student did blast himself in lal masjid.
    Suicide bombing…
    its not a conspiracy against muslims….they are involved not everywhere but muslims religious extremist r into this.
    press is not informed before the police tht it was a suicide bomb…in pak its police n army releases it in their press conferences…..lekin baat tou wohi hai army jhoot bolti hai
    well i condemn all bad actions anywhere in the world…n i think many ppl do……im responsible n answerable for my actions…alhamdulliah i do not copy the west.
    bhai ghazi is a molvi tou yehi kahain gai molvi wrong hai….after the operation jab media nai maulna kehna chor dia tha he objected….ssimilarly agar gen musharraf wrong hai tou uss say poori army tou ghalat nahi ho jati….
    wen did i say shoab mansoor is my saint??/

    by ayesha on Aug 9, 2007 at 2:14 pm

  127. Dear Haq……If one is to accept your explanation as correct, then you shouldn’t mind someone writing like this:
    [The troll, posting under the handle 'haq', may be an extermist Ghazi minion who has embraced wholeheartedly the new Deen-e-Ghazi introduced by some miscreants. Such people may also be called Ghazite or Ghazi lovers. In one of the posting, Mr. Nauman wrote: "a criminal using a mosque n a madrissa remains a criminal weather he wears a burqa or has a beard is besides the point."]

    You have used the same old tactic of picking up a portion in a post and keep playing with the words and at the same time avoid giving answers of difficult questions.

    What happened to other portion of my post: was the damage to public and private property including firing, for the implementation of Islamic Shariah or to break the country free of shackles of Musharraf.

    Since you look so knowledgeable, kindly enlighten us why Ghazi Sahib agreed to surrender everything including his demand for Islamic system in return for a safe passage and honorable exit from the mosque

    If you so wholeheartedly support all of the Ghazi Sahibs actions and his noble cause, then why you are not doing the same by “breaking the country free of shackles of a lawbreaker and willingly lay down your life.

    Were the following acts for “a struggle to break the country free of shackles of a lawbreaker or “for the implementation of Shariah laws:
    Illegal encroachment on a government land,
    Illegal occupation of a childrens library,
    Kidnapping and illegal confinement of women,
    attack on businesses and forcing them to shut down,
    Kidnapping of policemen,
    Setting up parallel courts within a state against the laws of that state,
    Kidnapping and illegal confinement of foreigners,
    Snatching arms and equipments from security personnel,
    Firing and killing security personnel,
    damaging and burning, public and private property,
    Keeping arms and ammunition in a mosque for no apparent reason,
    not laying arms on the request of authorities and firing at security personnel during the leniency period of 5 full days,
    keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endangering their lives (also many of them got killed during the operation).
    If so many people have died and everything is so obvious with so many indications, then why is anyone not going to court? Secondly, when it was repeatedly announced for continuously five days that people inside should come out, and they will not be harmed, then what is the justification of anyone still hiding inside OR they were being kept there against their own will.

    I have not been able to find answers to these questions despite requesting the same in various posts to Ghazi Minion (i personally dont like such words but as per your previous post, you have no problem).

    When you say: [This is either a completely fabricated story or an unrelated incident placed strategically in this post to bolstering a spin],
    then you quesion the integrity of the other and cast a significant doubt on the intention of the other person, though you may not have the entire truth or any solid evidence. You should have interview Ayesha ‘objectively’ and then give your opinion accordingly.
    There is a possibility that this particular incident may not have been reported specifically in any newspaper.

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Aug 9, 2007 at 2:43 pm

  128. [>>> Ordinary Pakistani: This is the same old tactic of picking up a portion in a post to justify Ghazi sahibs actions and avoid giving answers of difficult questions from those who have different opinion on this matter.]

    Clandestinely and skillfully, this troll has started to mimic my methodology of analyzing posts, expressing himself/herself by using the same phrases that I use for syntax. In this particular, case coupling this mimic with a misleading reference made to the contents of my posts [I have so far not once in any of my posts written anything that can be interpreted as justifying Ghazi sahibs acts], the troll turns this into a cleverly construed tactic to confuse the moderate mindset by overlapping the language footprint so that at a subliminal level the reader begins to experience overlap of ideology shelled in overlapped idiom.

    That I am “avoiding giving answers of difficult questions from those who have different opinion on this matter is hardly a tactic on my part. Its the simple truth that I made amply clear at the very outset in one of my earlier most posts. [Posted by Haq on Aug 4: My postings are intended to]

    I overtly made known my intentions for posting on the topic of the Massacre that took place at Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza on July 10, on this blog and others. I said I was posting to pick out, expose and set the record straight:
    (1) on disinformation about Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza posted by liberal extremists of the pro-Musharraf camp.
    (2) misconceptions of mislead liberals [who may or may not subscribe to the policies of the military regime] based on disinformation provided by the former.
    (3) trolling of liberal extremists [deliberately posting false information in order to bait naive users, who believe in an ideology passionately but are not eloquent enough to word their argument, into responding so that they can tear apart their ineloquence with their cold logic making it sound that they have won the argument].
    (4) and strategically conceived rhetoric and analogies aimed at confusing moderate elements of the society.

    Nowhere in my 4 point outline do I mention that I was going to give “answers of difficult questions from those who have different opinion on this matter. Thats because we have ALL ALREADY formed our OPINIONS about this incident based on the stance we take in accordance to our position on the politico social spectrum. No matter what anyone says at this point from within their paradigm will they convince another who looks at things from the perspective of their own paradigm. There will be a lot of hot debate with everyone trying to prove their own point.

    But “not giving answers to what is being referred to as “difficult questions does not mean that I am avoiding them. There are perfectly good answers to them. But the issue of Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza Massacre is not black and white; neither can it be looked at in a vacuum. The issue encompasses a greater period than the months it played out in. And it played out with more actors than the eyes saw in more acts than the incidents being vigorously quoted. It is only by understanding the broader perspective than many gray areas can be covered and since answers to question can only be given with reference to this paradigm or that, those gray areas need to be addressed before question can be answered. That is how I am proceeding with my posts.

    There is a noteworthy saying attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt (1884-1962, an American political leader), and to Admiral Hyman Rickover (1900-1986, the Father of the US Nuclear Nav). “Small mind discusses people, Average mind discusses events, Great mind discusses ideas.
    And what is being discussed only and more passionately regarding the issue of the July 10 Massacre, the events that led to it and those that followed are the people involved and the events. It is important to understand that posting “truths as this person sees it or that accounts only for a catharsis. Facts, the building blocks of truth speak for themselves, facts that are not biased and havent been fed by one side only. But in this particular case, the source of ALL facts being cited is the same the Musharraf regime, bolstered by anecdotes cited by anonymous people here that does not account for all the facts involved. Anyone can get up and put up a statement [it happened to meor my friendor a friend of a friend] as a fact. Unless a reliable source is quoted that can be verified by independent sources these facts account for nothing at all. How can one be the prosecutor, the judge and the witness and serve justice too. There is a whole different set of facts being offered from the other side. But like I said we have all already made up our minds as to which facts shore up our own argument and these are the only ones laying the foundation of truth for us.

    We need to remember that blogs are read by more people than those who comment on them. There is a great majority of people within my own social circle who read what is being posted here. The points that I am trying to make in analyzing trolls are for their benefit, which is why I mostly address my post in the third person [“This troll is attempting]. Convincing anyone here is not my agenda as I keep reiterating and neither am I here to convince anyone with regards to the issue at hand.

    by haq on Aug 9, 2007 at 3:02 pm

  129. [>>> nauman: u r mentally sick n weirdo... sick frustrated person like u shd not even be permitted near women...coz every body else is uncivilzed , illeterate stupid except you whereas its just the opposite]

    This one post contains 8 derogatory expressions lunged at me besides one insulting reference made as an insult. Ive been called sick and weirdo apparently on conclusion drawn on subjective perception of which no validation has been offered. The insults sink and frustrated person were made on the basis of the derogation implied through a self-invented meaning of a term [troll] that I had not used in the context attributed to me. Ive been called uncivilized, illiterate and stupid on the basis that I have used these terms to refer to others posting on the topic, which I have not either directly or in implication throughout any of my posts.

    Clever example of trolling: First attribute derogation by falsifying the meaning of phrases and words used by the person against whose viewpoint trolling is intended and then lambaste them to high heaven. The reader would automatically be fixated on the lambaste without realizing that the issue forming bases of the lambasting has been rigged by the troll.

    by haq on Aug 9, 2007 at 3:24 pm

  130. [>>> nauman: the word paki is used as a racial abuse in the western worldsikhs used to call muslims mussla by ur definition these wud be just words not abuses just labels..the word troll is deregatory in nature n however u use it its meaning is negative as intended by u.]

    It is worth nothing the change in tactic of this particular troll. Having initially trolled by falsely attributing a very derogatory meaning to a term used by me, and his troll having been exposed by my explanation, he has now taken a completely different approach to ascertain continuance of his trolling on the same plane. This time he is deliberately putting up incorrect analogy by bracketing “racial slurs intended to abuse with “labeling intended to identify a certain group of people on the sociopolitical spectrum.

    In terms of social nomenclature, labels are given to identify people and group them for social identification on the basis of their race [Caucasian. Mongoloid, Dravidian, Asian etc] ethnicity [pushtoon, baloch etc], religion [Muslim, Christian. Jew etc], country [Pakistani, Indian etc], sociopolitical orientation [Liberal, conservative etc]. None of these is an insult. They are markers that classify us for identification.

    The above nomenclature can be misused by a certain group when they wish to abuse another. To bracket misuse of a genuine social label with its misuse is what this troll has done to perpetuate his initial troll.

    The term troll is interestingly never a title that can be assumed by its propagator. He or she is so tagged on the basis of their “intent. Using some extremely derogatory terms [mentally sickweirdo...sickfrustratedu shd not even be permitted near women...uncivilzedilleterate stupid] to describe me unjustifiably, without knowing me in person and so aimed only at inciting me, is an intent that classifies this person inevitably as a “troll.

    by haq on Aug 9, 2007 at 4:00 pm

  131. Clandestinely and skillfully, this troll has started to mimic my methodology of analyzing posts, expressing himself/herself by using the same phrases that I use for syntax. In this particular, case coupling this mimic with a misleading reference made to the contents of haq writes “my posts [I have so far not once in any of my posts written anything that can be interpreted as justifying Ghazi sahibs acts], the troll turns this into a cleverly construed tactic to confuse the moderate mindset by overlapping the language footprint so that at a subliminal level the reader begins to experience overlap of ideology shelled in overlapped idiom.”

    1. u think too much of your self….if someone uses the same phrases used by you y ur objecting …one shd talk in a manner one understands….u justify ur phrases then if somebody else uses it y ur objecting
    secondly u said u do not justify ghazi”read ur post of july 17th…tht emotional post is fully justifying ghazi’s death/actions…if anybody call him a shaheed he justify him

    july 11th past haq wrote> “That his method was questionable is a debate that should be laid to rest for he paid with his life for that adopting that method.”

    lolzzzz many criminals die during encounters or in jails …so their death cannot justify their actions/intentions…..
    haram k paisay sai zakat bhi jaiz nahi….if his methods were wrong which were wrong whatever he was trying to do is meaningless…..jaiz kam jaiz tareqay sai hi hilal hota hai.
    y u explained to us the meaning of different words used by you…nobody asked you.. but then y u say “Nowhere in my 4 point outline do I mention that I was going to give “answers of difficult questions from those who have different opinion on this matter….. well i can give haq’s answer to Adnan ” he cannot justify ghazi’s actions coz he does not hv answers rather he himself believes he did wrong but since he is anti army iss liyay ghazi sahib k tamam gunnah maaf…..he is dead so he is a legend”

    by NAUMAN on Aug 9, 2007 at 4:44 pm

  132. the way mr haq is TROLLING about deen e ghazi is amazing…he avoids the point , changes the topic and kills musharraf’s mother in one go….his justification for supporting a criminal/crime iz always unique..i.e he TROLLS about land grabbing(july 17 post) by the army to justify deen i ghazi…he convienently forgets tht in some of the cases govt depts incl the army hv already been dragged in court e.g, dha muree etc….it is the same as justyfying the occupation of palestine with the occupation of kashmir. yeh kashmir bhi tou qabzay mai hai palestine ho gia tou kia hua
    but i must admire this MINION of ghazi who admits in his posts tht jamia hafza was illegal n tht its students were MISCREANTS.
    my posts r not designed to incite u…as u hv no answers to our questions u get hyper.
    “Small mind discusses people, Average mind discusses events, Great mind discusses ideas.
    then put urself in small minded group of ppl….coz u discuss president…for every illegal action of ghazi will justify him by pinpointing president’s actions…
    ghazi on the day of judgement wont be left out just coz musharraf has done some thing in his tenure as well…
    n mind you i openly confess musharraf’s wrong actions/blunders…neither im his follower but with ghazi issue i support him.

    by NAUMAN on Aug 9, 2007 at 4:57 pm

  133. [>>> Posted by ayesha on Aug 8: my sister lives in G 6 she prays 5 times a day n observes pardahhowever she has to drive a car coz of comupulsionsshe was attacked by the burqa brigade on the covered market road causing broken wind screen to her mehran n injuries to her face.]

    Analysis of the troll: There are three components to the incident cited:
    (1)To whom it happened, including their gender and character. (2) How it happened. (3) Who caused the incident. (4) Outcome of the incident.

    These components have been tactically aligned to conjure up a certain image in the mind of the reader. The person in focus is a woman who according to the narrative suffers a trauma the classic dame in distress. Immediately the reader softens towards the narration, because women are considered physically weak and vulnerable. Any untoward incident happening to them immediately causes sympathies to gravitate towards them irrespective of the nature of the incident. Then comes the descriptor that associates a certain kind of character to the woman in distress. She is described as someone who says ALL her obligatory prayers and observes the obligatory purdah. So here we have a woman, who is religious for all intents and purposes and is thus completely on par with those claiming the higher moral ground [students of Jamia Hafza] who are the source of her distress. The descriptor of her character fails also not to mention that she drives but ONLY because she HAS TO, putting her even higher on the pedestal of propriety from the perspective of the villains causing her distress. The circumstances in which this “incident is cited to have happened makes it appear that it happened in isolation that baton bearing students of Jamia Hafza, waiting specifically for that purpose ambushed her. The outcome of the incident is cited as being devastating for her both financially and bodily.

    And so based on this citing, what the reader essentially reads in and between the lines is that a God-fearing, purdah-clad woman who is driving a car because of obligatory “compulsions becomes victim of a preplanned attacked by fanatic baton-bearing students of a religious institute the ferocity of whose violence is intense enough to incur her severe financial loss besides making her suffer injuries to her face which in case of a woman is even more devastating.

    Run that script in your mind at a real-life pace and suddenly you feel great sympathy for the woman and very angry at her aggressors. This serves well the purpose of this draft.

    If for arguments sake one is to assume that this post is not a troll, there are too many things cited that just dont add up:

    An attack of this nature comes under the category of a “homicidal attack, aimed at causing deliberate damage to property and life. It is a criminal offense that is punishable by law. Injuries caused by such an attack are generally not treated unless under supervision of a Medico-legal Officer (MLO) at the emergency room of a hospital. And the moment an MLO steps in to supervise, a series of events gets set into motion highlighted by the MLOs reporting of the incident to a law enforcing agency, and crime reporters (who have hospitals and police stations assigned to them by their publication or TV channel as “beats or areas of news coverage) finding out about the incident.

    So if this incident was as violent as it has been cited, an FIR should have been registered against those who caused it and it should have appeared by default on TV and/or in the papers without the need for having it brought to their attention. Remember this was not an ordinary street crime that happened on an ordinary day and in ordinary circumstances. We are talking about a violent crime having been committed during a time when womens rights activists, electronic and print media and the police were extraordinarily attuned to every little move of the students of Jamia Hafza whose every little move was being reported as transgression. And here we have a woman suffering at their hands so badly and no one finds out about it.

    In related posts something even more remarkable comes up. In her Aug 9 post, “ayesha puts forward a tongue-in-cheek reason for the incident having not been reported anywhere in the media because there were no reporters or journalists around. [>>> Posted by ayesha on Aug 9: for your kind information haq sahib things come in news papers if they are reported to them..my sis is not a vip tht a reporter follws her whereever she is going n if something happens to her its reported on media]

    Interestingly enough in her Aug 6 post “ayesha had claimed that her sister was a journalist. [>>> Posted by ayesha on Aug 6: my sister is a journalist n i went with her to mr ghazis graven have visited jamia hafza many times after the operation]

    Okay so her sister is a journalist. Mind boggling! I am not entirely sure if this journalist sister is the same who suffered the violent crime according to the script or if she is the “third sister in the spin. Whats even more important is that her sister is a journalist of such high a caliber that she has been granted access to Jamia Hafza after the operation, not once but “many times. This is the same Jamia Hafza where some of the top journalists from Pakistan and abroad were given a short guided tour ONLY ONCE after which the Jamia was completely sealed for civilian access, having been opened briefly for Jumma prayers ONCE and then shut down again indefinitely. I am sure Talat Hussain at Aaj TV would be very envious to read this.

    But then again being such important a journalist, “ayeshas sister did not report the violent crime she suffered to any of the newspapers or TV channels. But then again “Ayesha claims in her post that her “sis is not a vip tht a reporter follws her whereever she is going. But isnt she described in the script as a very influential journalist herself? Or are we talking about a fourth sister in the script? Like I said mind boggling!

    Now here is a most influential journalist who suffered a violent crime at the hands of fanatic students of a religious institute. Or perhaps the sister of a most influential journalist who suffered that crime. Not only that either of the two did not seek professional medical attention for a violent attack against their person, they also did not report the incident to the police. But what they DID DO was to drive all the way from Islamabad to Ghazi Abdul Rasheed Shaheeds grave at the Madrassah Abdullah in the dust-bowl village of Basti Abdullah near Rojhan Mazari in District Rajanpur near the inter-provincial borders of Balochistan, Sindh and Punjabto smell Ghazi Abdul Rasheeds grave for ascertaining if it indeed smelled sweet as claimed by his surviving compatriots.

    I rest my case!

    by haq on Aug 9, 2007 at 7:15 pm

  134. haq thanks 4 ur admission tht the jamia hifza miscreants did try 2 impose their BRAND of sharia forcebly.now by ur lucid explaination on different words n their meanings i hv learnt tht ghazi rasheed can be labelled as MISCREANT , RELIGIOUS EXTREMIST,MINION 2 FOREIGN POWERS WITH DEVIOUS DESIGNS AND OFCOURSE A CRIMINAL.

    his brand of sharia by ur definition can be defined as " deen i ghazi" his followers including you r "ghazites" or minions…u label him as a shaheed 4 the following services rendered to islam

    Illegal encroachment on a government land,

    Illegal occupation of a childrens library,

    Kidnapping and illegal confinement of women,

    attack on businesses and forcing them to shut down,

    Kidnapping of policemen,

    Setting up parallel courts within a state against the laws of that state,

    Kidnapping and illegal confinement of foreigners,

    Snatching arms and equipments from security personnel,

    Firing and killing security personnel,

    damaging and burning, public and private property,

    Keeping arms and ammunition in a mosque for no apparent reason,

    not laying arms on the request of authorities and firing at security personnel during the leniency period of 5 full days,

    keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endangering their lives (also many of them got killed during the operation).

    by this definition almost all the prisoners in various jails shd qualify for shihadat…rather anyone committing any crime in the name of islam i.e killing, robbing harrassing etc shd now b declared national heroes as their intentions were good….mayb

    so lets c u praising the pesh imam from mandi bahuddin recently caught sexually harrassing his student or the hafiz sahib who was brought on alim on line …mayb u would also praise the killers of hazrat usman n hazrat umar next coz they were also performing religious duties.morality law n ethics do not bother u at all.

    the word paki is used as a racial abuse in the western world…sikhs used to call muslims mussla …by ur definition these wud be just words not abuses just labels…..the word troll is deregatory in nature n however u use it its meaning is negative as intended by u.

    by NAUMAN on Aug 9, 2007 at 7:36 pm

  135. [>>> nauman: y u explained to us the meaning of different words used by younobody asked you...]

    Trolls rarely bother themselves with the contents of posts since their aim is not to contribute to the issue under discussion but to inflame and incite those discussing. They skim and scan posts and target the most coherent post they can find with their provoking statements laden with phoneticons [lolzzz] to psyche out the opponent by mocking and ridiculing his ideology.

    The above post is a case in point. In a previous post I had already mentioned in detail my reasons for analyzing posts by trolls on this blog in depth. I quote “We need to remember that blogs are read by more people than those who comment on them. There is a great majority of people within my own social circle who read what is being posted here. The points that I am trying to make in analyzing trolls are for their benefit, which is why I mostly address my post in the third person [“This troll is attempting]. Convincing anyone here is not my agenda as I keep reiterating and neither am I here to convince anyone with regards to the issue at hand.

    But since the troll didnt bother reading the post, he put up a question that had already been answered.

    by haq on Aug 9, 2007 at 8:32 pm

  136. [>>> nauman: the way mr haq is TROLLING about deen e ghazi is amazinghe avoids the point , changes the topic and kills musharrafs mother in one go.his justification for supporting a criminal/crime iz always unique..i.e he TROLLS about land grabbing(july 17 post) by the army to justify deen i ghazihe convienently forgets tht in some of the cases govt depts incl the army hv already been dragged in court e.g, dha muree etc.it is the same as justyfying the occupation of palestine with the occupation of kashmir. yeh kashmir bhi tou qabzay mai hai palestine ho gia tou kia hua]

    The troll in this post is simultaneously using 3 tactics I have already listed above… (1) “Mimicking in which a troll copycats the opponent [he has acquired my lexicon he wasnt using before] to overlap the opponents idiom in order to perplex readers about the latters ideology and (2) “lumping in which trolls “extract or “pull out from posts of the opponent randomly and bracket the extracts together to make him sound confused.

    That he/she has nothing original to contribute towards the issue of a board is the trademark of a troll who “mimics and “lumps, his aim being only to incite and flare up controversy. To sound insightful he latches on to another troll, picks up from posts to agree with him, [>>> nauman: well i can give haqs answer to Adnan he cannot justify ghazis actions] sides with him/her and using the assumed advantage of “camaraderie continues with the trolling.

    Once a troll has been identified, and thoroughly exposed, particularly one who laces his language with profanity the best way to deal with him is to ignore him.

    by haq on Aug 9, 2007 at 9:01 pm

  137. well mr haq if my sister or me observes pardah it shdnt surprise you …many females do in pak….i never said she or me r the only ones…..i do not understand tht aside frm the criminals in jamia u seem 2 believe no one……n female attack is not once…aunty shamin, chinese girls they all were females…..n i never mentioned in my post tht my sister head was covered @ the time of incident…..i said tht she prays 5 times n observe parda ( just to tell she is a muslim as well)……as far as my sis is concerned i will not lie she does not regularly covers her head …she may or may not b covering her head at tht time….possibility is she might be……….n … well when she got the injuries they were scratches n minor injuries which does not require hospitalization…..
    my sis did not go alone to his village…her colleagues also went with her n yes i wanted to go so she took me along
    n i said i hv been to jamia hiza many times after the op…i never said tht i went inside the mosque/or jamia hifza….tht place is blocked but its nearabouts r open
    my point was if there was fragrance it can be smell on the roads etc …but i never got tht smell….n secondly y dint u quuestion ppl tht wen tht mosque is closed how did they smell???
    i still go to tht side n i still cant smell anything….i never said she was badly hurt…yes the car screen was smashed …..it does not matter she was badly hurt or not…the question uis y she was attacked
    n as far ur question tht my sister being the journalist y wasnt it reported…..yes ur rite the journalist wasnt attacked….we r 6 sisters….the one attacked is the eldest n journalist is my 3rd sis frm top…..’my sis wanted to put it in her paper but my father dint permit her to do…coz in tht case the editor would like to hv complete interview n then several ppl frm media could hv approached us…..my father might b wrong but he said they r dangerous ppl n i do not want this matter in public so tht they might not hurt us as my sis happens to b resident of g6…..at tht time they were in full swing…kidnapping policemen chinese …n my father thought by reporting it might get worse”….yes the journalist sis was very angry n argued with my father but he did not agree…..my father says our private matters shd not b in papers just coz our sis is a journalist…in a same way wen my elder two sis got married she again wanted to send the wedding pics to her paper n again my father dint agree…..
    we never told abt this before the operation….even to our friends n in college…ab kabhi lal masjid ka zikr kisi family gathering mai ho tou bata detay hain k my sis was a victim 2 coz now its over….
    well haq u can still disagree with me but thats how my father is…it was his decision right or wrong wat ever the case…….
    n every crime do u think in pak is on media???????????????
    the thing which is not reported according to u does not exist…….

    by ayesha on Aug 9, 2007 at 10:04 pm

  138. mr haq i never knew tht ur a phd in trollism n watever u think it means ur post indicates ur ideology fully i.e deen e ghazi n u being a minion of tht miscreant r fully supportive of all the crimes he stood for….
    thanks for defining some terminologies of ur trade …i will keep on using as they fit u perfectly…ur a master of avoiding the basic subject n wen u dont hv a supportive arguement u start personal attacks…i know its almost impossible to argue with an ignorant minion of a criminal msque imam
    i fail to understand y u post comments if u dont want to convince anybody…if ur aim iz just to spread nifaq amongst muslim n incite ppl to violance/criminal activities then i believe the sharia u bel in cannot b islam.
    as far as as ur continual attacks on trollism haha…u make me sound like cia/isi/alqaida etc rolled into one.
    im n ordinary citizen of isb …mind u this concept of trollism is a find for me…thanks for the introduction…however as others of ur kind u seem to b in a superiority complex….ur posts r not analytical …they r just spins of the most negative kind on issues at hand
    u hv still not answered or if u hv answered paste me again i might hv missed it the plausibilty n legality of ghazi’s crimes…plz do not confuse it with musharraf’s or any other person follies….coz political huha is not my agenda…i wud like to understand ur ideology i.e y u support criminal acts…n secondly u said [>>> nauman: well i can give haqs answer to Adnan he cannot justify ghazis actions] sides with him/her and using the assumed advantage of “camaraderie continues with the trolling. …..then y ur constantly poking ur nose with ayesha’s posts….wen she mentioned abt her sis she wasnt answering it to u it was to some other fellow who invited her at ghazi’s grave but wat can u say ur approach is im the best…..
    nobody copies u lekin its said” insaan ko uski apni hi zaban mai samjh ata hai jo woh bolta hai”

    the way u described the metaphorical murder of ayla musharraf was down right vicious n mean….u mentioned once tht dead ppl shd b respected…i expect tht u respect those living as well…dont make us believe tht it is all hate n animosity in ur mind

    “Trolls rarely bother themselves with the contents of posts since their aim is not to contribute to the issue under discussion but to inflame and incite those discussing. They skim and scan posts and target the most coherent post they can find with their provoking statements laden with phoneticons [lolzzz] to psyche out the opponent by mocking and ridiculing his ideology. ”
    i believe ur telling us ur tactics of reacting to any decent post…..
    i m sure ur doctorate in trollgy wud not let anybody escape as its ur fav way to start any post…..i.e the “the troll strikes back”

    by NAUMAN on Aug 9, 2007 at 10:32 pm

  139. I dont whether my comment are gona read after the so many comments but i will write upon few lines written in the article

    “Army personnels ka koi bhi deen mazhab nahin hota un k liyae sirf orders hotae hayen jo unko poorae karnae hotae hayen agar kisi ka koi deen mazhab hota hai tow woh Islamic(religious) force kehlati hai Pakistan Army nahin kehlati, is liyae Pak Army k jawan ko Jahanumi kehna bohat he galat hoga”

    by on Aug 10, 2007 at 12:00 am

  140. Rights of the Left

    Reading posts of liberals and liberal extremists on this and other such blogs, I cannot help but notice how vehemently they all defend their right to live their lives according to the dictates of the liberal value system they follow. Even out there in the real world, their representatives go hoarse defending a way of life not even a moderate can advocate let alone a conservative. But then, to live life the way the liberals and liberal extremists want is their God-given right, in my opinion, one that no one has the right to take away from them though the freedom of a liberal to swing his arms ends where the nose of a moderate or conservative begins. However, I also notice to what extent they are willing to go to protect their right…advocating wholeheartedly massacre of thousands who posed [or pose still] a threat to their liberal values. But when the conservative extremists [the militants of Lal Masjid] raised batons and arms to protect their what they though was their right, liberals and the extremists in their ranks labeled them terrorists. A paradox indeed.

    by haq on Aug 10, 2007 at 12:06 am

  141. [>>>nauman but i must admire this MINION of ghazi who admits in his posts tht jamia hafza was illegal n tht its students were MISCREANTS.]

    Troll Analysis: The troll continues to makes use of “mimicking [using my lexicon: Minion and Miscreant] and “false association [I none of my posts so far have I commented on the legality of any of the physical structures in the way mention] this troll continues to create a verbal pandemonium on this board to muddle issues.

    by haq on Aug 10, 2007 at 2:40 am

  142. [>>> HASSAN: “Army personnels ka koi bhi deen mazhab nahin hota un k liyae sirf orders hotae hayen jo unko poorae karnae hotae hayen agar kisi ka koi deen mazhab hota hai tow woh Islamic(religious) force kehlati hai Pakistan Army nahin kehlati...]

    Valid argument.

    by haq on Aug 10, 2007 at 2:43 am

  143. [>>> Posted by haq on Aug 8: The fact of the matter is that students of Jamia Hafza never tried to forcibly impose purdah on any unveiled woman.]

    [>>> Posted by nauman on Aug 8:students of jamia hifza never forcebly tried to enforce sharia hahahawho abducted mrs shamim? n chinese n policemen? aliens or cia.]

    [>>> Posted by haq on Aug 9: (nauman>>> students of jamia hifza never forcebly tried to enforce sharia hahahawho abducted mrs shamim? n chinese n policemen? aliens or cia)
    Another example of misconstruing one of posts by a liberal troll. I never EVER said that students of Jamia Hafza “never forcibly tried to enforce Shariah. What I wrote was, and I quote: “The fact of the matter is that students of Jamia Hafza never tried to forcibly impose purdah on any unveiled woman.]

    [>>> Posted by Nauman on Aug 9: haq thanks 4 ur admission tht the jamia hifza miscreants did try 2 impose their BRAND of sharia forcebly.]

    Troll Analysis: That trolls aim only to incite is evident from the above sequence of posts.

    On 8 August I posted that “students of Jamia Hafza never tried to forcibly impose purdah on any unveiled woman. On the same day in trolling to my post this troll queried the credibility of my post utilizing the “false association method attributing falsely to me his own version of the statement, “…students of jamia hifza never forcebly tried to enforce sharia hahaha On 9 august I pointed out the troll making it clear that I had never used the words attributed to me. But continuing his troll, he thanked me for my supposed “admiison that jamia hifza miscreants did try 2 impose their BRAND of sharia forcebly.

    This is a typical pattern of trolling hallmarked by “false association followed by “denial dissent followed closely by “defiance dissent.

    by haq on Aug 10, 2007 at 3:36 am

  144. [>>> Posted by nauman on Aug 8: u r mentally sick n weirdo.on one side u talk about rasikh ul aqeeda muslims n shariat etc n on the other hand u slander females with gustothe word troll is slang for a woman with lose characteryou being a sharia loving man r projecting ur brand of sharia as tht of a women slanderer.]

    [>>> Posted by haq on Aug 8: In the context I have used the word troll throughout my posts is defined by wikipedia as “ An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who intentionally posts messages about sensitive topics constructed to cause controversy in an online community. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll]

    [>>> Posted by Nauman on Aug 9: y u explained to us the meaning of different words used by younobody asked you.]

    Troll Analysis: Textbook example of trolling following the pattern of “false association followed by “denial dissent.

    Troll Aim: To make me sound like a person who insults women, thus diminishing the value of my posts. The troll was successful in his attempt since a subsequent post by another writer rejected my posts, blaming me for using “vulgar language. The reader automatically got fixated on the abuse without realizing that the issue forming bases of the lambasting had been rigged by the troll.

    Troll Method:
    (1) What the troll did in this case was to falsely attribute a derogatory meaning to one of the words I had used in my posts. The word “troll as I had used throughout, and had explained right at the start why I was using it, had an entirely different connotation than the one attributed to me. Using that false association as base, the troll abused me, calling me sick, weirdo and a frustrated person, one “who should not be allowed near women.
    (2) When subsequently I explained the meaning of the term as I had used it, the troll fell back into the typical “denial dissent, in which he lambasted me for explaining the meaning of terms that no one in his opinion had asked me to do.

    The pattern of troll is thus this:
    Troll: You are a bad person because you used bad language -> Genuine Post: I am not a bad person because the word I used means something else -> Troll: Why are u defining the meaning of the words no one asked you to define.

    So with a troll its always a loose-loose situation. It should be remembered that its impossible to convince a troll on any subject since his aim is only to incite and everything you say he will convolute no matter how you explain yourself. The best way to deal with a troll is to just expose his trolling method but not get involved in a confrontation with him because trolls are inclined to use foul and filthy language.

    by haq on Aug 10, 2007 at 10:47 am

  145. [>>> ayesha:my sis wanted to put it in her paper but my father dint permit her to docoz in tht case the editor would like to hv complete interview n then several ppl frm media could hv approached us..my father might b wrong but he said they r dangerous ppl n i do not want this matter in public so tht they might not hurt us.]

    Troll Analysis: First it was said that one of the members of the family was a journalist. Then it was described how another member of the family suffered a violent crime. As to why the crime did not come to the medias attention it was said the member of the family wasnt a VIP whod be trailed by reporters at all hours. When it was pointed out that another member of eh family was part of the press cadre, it was said that the father did not permit the journalist member of the family to report the incident to the media.

    The protective father is a new element introduced into the picture. If one is to accept as valid argument of him being a protective patriarch who did not permit his daughters to report a crime to the authorities because “the dangerous people involved might “hurt them, how does one explain his protective guard coming down to the point where soon after the untoward incident of the violent attack on one of his daughters, he permits them to undertake a very long and totally unnecessary journey to the far-flung tribal area comprising a dust-bowl village in the outskirts of Rojhan Mazari, right into the heartland of those “dangerous people?

    Common sense dictates that when a person has been victim of a violent crime, the “post traumatic shock numbs the mind to the point where being exposed to any element similar to those comprising the crime can trigger an emotional response similar to the one experienced during the crime. That is why a victim of mugging on the street fears and avoids walking down the street for a considerable period subsequent to the mugging. Similarly a victim of burglary suffers sleepless nights in the period subsequent to the burglary, many such victims opting to move house if finances permit. But in the case cited against what is called the “burqa brigade, the victim and/or her sibling/s who had been initially portrayed as having suffered severe emotional trauma opted to venture deep into the heartland of those to whom the crime had been attributed. It just doesn’t add up.

    by haq on Aug 10, 2007 at 11:27 am

  146. [>>> HASSAN: “Army personnels ka koi bhi deen mazhab nahin hota un k liyae sirf orders hotae hayen jo unko poorae karnae hotae hayen agar kisi ka koi deen mazhab hota hai tow woh Islamic(religious) force kehlati hai Pakistan Army nahin kehlati]

    Valid argument.

    Now mr haq is not at all offended on this statement rather he is convinced….
    N in every organization one has to listen to his boss…its nothing unusual…..i never in my post ever mentioned tht ghazi was not a muslim…..but this so called religious scholar. Anaylist( mr haq) hv a licence to question about anyone’s religion……i hv many times indicated in my post tht mr haq’s only prob is tht he is anti musharraf thtsy he is against the whole army….shame on you!!!!!!!!
    “Using that false association as base, the troll abused me, calling me sick, weirdo and a frustrated person, one “who should not be allowed near women.
    Wen u can imagine president’s musharraf MOTHER’S death it makes u sick,weirdo n everything tht can b named to a ppl with sick mentality like u….
    Forget everything rahim n i asked you about ur ideology or legality of ghazi’s actions…..no body asked u presidents mistakes but u did tell us so wen several time ppl asking u y u dont answer this question…..
    Wen u question ayesha abt her sis incident ……. N u call my or ordinary pakistani post as inciting u,,,, or lacking objectivity but watever ur any supporter like hassan says thts a valid arguement in ur opinion…….it is just like if i say ghazi aur uskay manay walon ka koi deen nahi……….very constructiver, useful n valid arguement…………..
    1. Anything ppl will say in favour of jamia hifza or against army,,,mr haq wud be very convincing….
    2. He had an objection how miss ayesha went to jamia after op wen it wasnt allowed but on the other hand he never raised a question to ppl who were talkin abt the fragrance in tht compound…how did they smell?
    3.mr haq thinks too much of self n hv some kind of superiority complex read this ….Mimicking in which a troll copycats the opponent
    4. Always ignores the real questions put to him
    “also notice to what extent they are willing to go to protect their rightAdvocating wholeheartedly massacre of thousands who posed [or pose still] a threat to their liberal values.”

    Masscare of these ppl is ghazi’s fault……wen mr aziz n his wifecan come out who stopped the remaining inside…..n army wasnt protecting their libral values…they were evacuating the mosque which was illegally used for criminal activities…..ghazi aim n purpose wasnt implementation of sharia….y mr ghazi n his fellows kidnapped the chinese frm f 8…y the two ppl frm mma were left …..i hv said earlier in my post JAIZ KAM JAIZ TAREEQAY SAI HI JAIZ HOTA HAI…..HARAM K PAISAY KI ZAKAT BHI JAIZ NAHI……..intentions ghazi sahib ki allah janta hai…we hv his actions in front of us jo k islamic nahi hain…….
    Mr haq would always in his post pinpoint the issues which r irrelevant….so far , despite of repeated request he is unable to tell us the legality of ghazi’s actions…he cannot but since against him was army mr haq would make him a shaheed…..
    July 11th past haq wrote> “That his method was questionable is a debate that should be laid to rest for he paid with his life for that adopting that method…lolzzzzzzzzzzzzz he himself is convinced abt his method
    My aug 9th post “so lets c u praising the pesh imam from mandi bahuddin recently caught sexually harrassing his student or the hafiz sahib who was brought on alim on line Mayb u would also praise the killers of hazrat usman n hazrat umar next coz they were also performing religious duties.morality law n ethics do not bother u at all.”

    MY AUG 9TH POST”by this definition almost all the prisoners in various jails shd qualify for shihadatRather anyone committing any crime in the name of islam i.e killing, robbing harrassing etc shd now b declared national heroes as their intentions were good.mayb

    MY 9TH JULY POST” hv still not answered or if u hv answered paste me again i might hv missed it the plausibilty n legality of ghazis crimesPlz do not confuse it with musharrafs or any other person follies.coz political huha is not my agenda”

    He hasnt responded to ny part of the postings above…..he has no aim to convince anybody…he is just here to analyize the post as he thinks he is the best judge….
    Now look again his recent post of july 10th for ayesha
    Haq wrote on aug 9th”, [>>> nauman: well i can give haqs answer to Adnan he cannot justify ghazis actions] Sides with him/her and using the assumed advantage of “camaraderie continues with the trolling”
    Now wat u r doing with ayesha…about her sis incident she did not inform u or replied ur post…..y u constantly bragging abt her sister….
    Aug 9th haq wrote”Trolls rarely bother themselves with the contents of posts since their aim is not to contribute to the issue under discussion but to inflame and incite those discussing”
    Watch out urself wat ur doing!!!!!!!!
    AUG 8TH HAQ POST “trolling [deliberately posting false information in order to bait naive users, who believe in an ideology passionately but are not eloquent enough to word their argument, into responding so that they can tear apart their ineloquence with their cold logic making it sound that they have won the argument] ”
    Every body addresses u by calling haq or haq sahib n u use the word troll …by ur def the meaning of troll is written above…..

    HAQ ON AUG 9TH SAID “Nowhere in my 4 point outline do I mention that I was going to give answers of difficult questions from those who have different opinion on this matter.

    Now y ur constantly pulling ayesha’s leg…she has given u the answers to ur question n if u believe she is lying or its a fabricated story leave it …..as she never directly replied to ur mail……..
    u think ur a genious….ur constantly throwing questions on her…u first tell abt ghazi sahib’s actions ….as ur 17th july emotional mail carries lots of respect towards his actions……
    b realistic n to the point this time!!!!!

    by NAUMAN on Aug 10, 2007 at 12:46 pm

  147. haq) yes wen me n my sis went to cover his funeral in his village it was my sis “official duty”…she wasnt going alone……her crew was along…..
    my sis who was attacked never went thru tht way again after the incidenrt…..
    i even told u yesterday before the operation we did not inform anybody abt tht coz my father dint want our any family member to b highlighted in media.
    we went there after the operation …mind it…..n it wasnt our private trip to tht village…..the soldiers who die during op were loved by their families…they also knew it was dangerous but they were performing their official duties n so was my sister…..
    IM NOT TELLING YOU TO BELIEVE MY WORDS….IM JUST ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS N NOTHING ELSE…IF UR NOT CONVINCED I DONT CARE….YOU BETTER PAY YOUR ATTENTION TO THE PPL WHO R ASKING U SOMETHING LIKE NAUMAN SAHIB N ORDINARY PAKI

    by ayesha on Aug 10, 2007 at 1:00 pm

  148. [>>> nauman: jihad is not ur issue neither is its islamu only want to kill ppl due to ur own mental frustration/sickness

    Roll Analysis: This is another example of “false Association. In none of my posts have I advocated what is being attributed to me in words or in connotation.

    by haq on Aug 10, 2007 at 1:07 pm

  149. By haq on Aug 10, 2007 | Reply

    [>>> nauman: jihad is not ur issue neither is its islamu only want to kill ppl due to ur own mental frustration/sickness

    Roll Analysis: This is another example of “false Association. In none of my posts have I advocated what is being attributed to me in words or in connotation.

    LOLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

    READ YOUR POST OF 17TH JULY N U WILL GET UR ANSWER..FOR UR EASE I WILL PASTE CUTTINGS FROM THT POST N SOME OTHER POSTS

    "t was clear even to a casual observer that he truly believed in what he said and that his charisma made his belief in his struggle very infectious."(17h july)

    "I have for the longest time not been a practicing Musalman in any sense of the word practicing. In particular its been almost a decade that I havent said my prayers. So on the eventful morning of July 10, when at 4:00 am death started to loom large over the ill-fated mosque and madrisah, and I spread the prayer mat and cried buckets in the sajda, I knew Ghazi sahib had passed on his infection to me through the airwaves. I know deep inside that I believed in what he believed. (17th july)

    The blood thirsty army dictator wanted to rid himself of Islamaists who were a threat to the soft image of his Pakistan and to his enlightened moderation. The government functionaries, the rubber stamps of the dictator, ran like messenger boys between the mosque and the GHQ trying to negotiate a deal no one really wanted to go through. The ulema fought over the custody of the ruins of Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza. Ejaz ul Haq broke into sweat when invited to go into the madrasha he today weeps over. Sherpao, the PPP secular liberalist fought hard to sanction the bloody operation for which he had full support of the MQM. Here, on this forum I see all these people represented. The people have spoken. Operation Silence is long since over. The silence of the shaheed is no less than deafening( 17th july)

    And justice will have to be served one day. Justice will be served the day when Musharrafs mother is shot in front of his eyes and he sits there with her grey haired head in his lap, feeling her frail body struggle for breath, feeling the cold of death slide gradually on the woman who had given him life. And when she breaths her last, a grenade is fired on him, its shrapnel slicing through his throat leaving him barely alive to feel every bullet that slices through the body of his beloved daughter Ayla, whose burning corpse he sees turn into ash before death pierce through his uniformed body. That day the shaheed of Lal Masjid and Jamai Hafza would have been avenged. And people like me would have at last found peace. (17th july)

    where prostitutes are allowed to run their business under government protection [Aunty Shamim et al] ( 17th july)
    MR HAQ U UR GHAZI BROTHERS N THE FOLLOWERS WHO CALL AUNTY SHAMIM A PROSTITUTE OR IN BUSINESS FOR THEM THERE IS AYAT IN QURAN WHICH SAYS U HAVE TO BRING 4 WITNESSES N IF HE CANNOT BRING 4 WITNESSES THEN ITS A TOHMAT AUR TAUHMAT KI SAZA 80 KORAY HAI……….

    (AUG 4) I cannot be convinced against my conviction that thousands of rasikh-ul-aqeeda musalman men, women and children were unjustifiably MASSACRED in Operation Silence/Sunrise by the orders of a tyrant

    also notice to what extent they are willing to go to protect their rightadvocating wholeheartedly massacre of thousands who posed [or pose still] a threat to their liberal values.(9TH JULY POST)

    by ayesha on Aug 10, 2007 at 2:53 pm

  150. [>>> ayesha: yes wen me n my sis went to cover his funeral in his village it was my sis “official dutyshe wasnt going alone]

    What are the odds of a female Pakistani journalist being sent to cover the funeral of someone labeled a terrorist “killed in one of the biggest Military operations conducted in the country, in a very remote tribal region of Pakistan during a most violently turbulent period in the countrys history? What are the odds?

    Female journalists who work as reporters for newspapers in Pakistan are generally, though not as a rule, not given crime “beats so as not to compromise their personal safety. Female journalists themselves do not opt to cover stories that may bring them in line of danger. According to the SDPI Research and News Bulletin, (vol. 11 No. 6 Nov Dec, 2004) “the findings suggest they [female reporters] still avoid reporting on general crime and politics.

    There are six English language newspapers published from Islamabad: Daily Mail, The Nation, Pakistan Observer, Pakistan Times, The News and The Statesman. All these papers have a cadre of seasoned male journalists on their payroll. It makes no sense for them to take the totally unnecessary risk of sending a female reporter to cover a story in a remote tribal region where thousands were chanting “Al-jihad, Al-Jihad and the word of retaliatory strikes was making the rounds. It makes lesser sense for the “protective father cited to be the “journalists patriarch to send his daughter marching off to report on the same danger he had earlier prevented her from reporting to ascertain safety of her sibling.

    Why I chose for such detailed analysis the post made by the handle ayesha was because it fell within the parameters I had set for myself [and which I had cited in one of my most earliest posts] to seek out and neutralize the propaganda of liberal extremists against the rasikh-ul-aqeeda Musalman men and women 2000+ of whom were butchered by a tyrant.

    This particular post offhandedly cited an incident of violence that ALLEGEDLY took place against the person and property of a Pakistani female-driver in Islamabad by what has generally been called the “Burqa Brigade, [the students of Jamia Hafza], by the liberal left wing English press of Pakistan.

    It goes without saying that had such a REPREHENSIBLE and CRIMINAL act actually occurred it would have DEFINITELY been reported somewhere in the media for reasons I have cited in an earlier post. The flaws inherent to this citation I have already detailed in an earlier post. The theatrical twists and turns introduced into the story by ayesha in her subsequent posts, have led me to be convinced that the incidence cited is a completely fabricated story aimed at bolstering the smear campaign initiated and propagated by liberal extremists against the rasikh-ul-aqeeda musalman women of Jamia Hafza.

    MQM, the organization declared “terrorist by the Canadian Courts, and an ally of the Pervez Musharraf whose rule has been declared “illegitimate by the majority of lawyer fraternity in Pakistan submitted to the Indian news media a fabricated report aimed at maligning the students of Jamia Hafza. “Students of Jamia Hafza had been ordered that if they saw a woman or a female student without a burqa the report said, “they must beat her up with sticks and force her in a confession cell at Jamia Hafza to seek forgiveness, the report said. No proof was offered to validate this fabrication just as nothing concrete has been put forward by “ayesha to validate her accusation.

    The goons of MOM on Indian TV and liberal extremists on internet communities in Pakistan are both engaged in the smear campaign against people whom they both see as a threat to their ways of life. Under guise of “moderate enlightenment they are clandestinely carving a more secular and sexually liberal shape for Pakistan for which they malign or annihilate anyone who comes in their way. That is a Sign of the Times.

    by haq on Aug 10, 2007 at 3:09 pm

  151. The penny drops. :)

    by haq on Aug 10, 2007 at 3:11 pm

  152. haq can only say……….troll has done this troll did that…..troll is bad haq is sad…what to say what not…..
    im not posting anything new coz my previous queries still unanswered….n ayesha has already replied so there is no need for me to write more…i feel the same

    now he would say By haq on Aug 8, 2007 | Reply

    “yet another typical tactic of trolls to gang up against anyone rocking the boat of their trolling. a chat room tradition imported to blogsganging upl with other trolls is aimed at disorienting the opponent with mulitple posts. Of little consequence to anyone who understands the tactic”

    by nauman on Aug 10, 2007 at 3:12 pm

  153. lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    i think i hv told u already wat i had to say n i also said u dont hv to believe me neither i care tht mr ghaq believes me or not…..
    including me n my sis there were two more females who went along……..they were also assigned the same duty n how they worked n collected news is not ur prob as u hv independent research so u find out urself…..
    first u had prob with my sis accident….now u hv problem with my other sis…….i really dont understand ur issue coz wen i hv told u ur not convinced so its over

    u know the papers published here/magazines etc u go to every paper magazine n ask urself tht wat did they do tht day??????

    n mind it i hvnt told u my sis works for a paki newspaper or international…neither i hv told u she works for a paki magazine or an international mag…..

    n mind u aside frm us there were females frm diff news channels/papers………

    If u think my story is fabricated then ur ghazi stance is also wrong as so far instead of replying to others who hv asked abt ghazi ur constanly answering my posts
    if my story is a fabricated one…..i will be answerable to allah on day of judgement not you………

    mai jhoot bol rahi hun na to thek hai Allah mujko saza dai ga lekin wen u dont bel my words n u hv already said im a lier then u stick with ur statement tht im wrong….finished!!!!!!!!! n answer those question which ppl have asked you

    by ayesha on Aug 10, 2007 at 3:34 pm

  154. Ayesha basically haq is just annoying you…..he has nothing to say…u hv made ur point clear…n he has made his point clear….my advice to u is just not respond to his posts…he is just trying to change the topic……….or maybe he is inciting u so tht u come up with ur sis name n her news pape r to prove urself correct….dont do this stupidity……
    Now im telling u his next post wud b comments on this post….again he wont justify ghazi’s actions n his shihadat or cause…..
    ur just like my sis n my advice is to stay away frm this man…….u must hv read wat he said abt president’s mother……
    he is mentally sick n just indulging in an arguement with a girl n avoiding the real issue….
    Ajj tak iss insan nai jo army walon ko galian nikaltay thay , aunty shami ki prostitution etc par khuch nahi kaha……
    my sincere advice dont reply him….. I believe ur words kiunkay app nai allah ka nam liya hai aur agar app ghalat hui tou app roz e qayamat ko sazawar ho gee ….
    Allah ka nam to ghazi bhi leta tha lekin uski aur harktain questionable thi……issi waja sai i believe u n if ur wrong u will b punished……
    bas ab app tiyar raho yeh meri iss post k bhakye odhairay ga….. Analysis madam analysis…..thts wat he is doing….
    logic saray inko isi case mai nazar atay hain …ghazi k logic ko tou ajj tak yeh explain nahi kar saka
    i told you he is sick:)

    by nauman on Aug 10, 2007 at 3:51 pm

  155. By haq on Aug 10, 2007 | Reply

    The penny drops.

    LOLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ……

    HAQ SAHIB PLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ GIVE US LOGICAL REASONS FOR GHAZI’S ACTIONS……………………………….

    by nauman on Aug 10, 2007 at 10:35 pm

  156. EYES WIDE OPEN

    This has indeed been a day of days for me.

    A very small triumph for me and for all those wishing to preserve the sanctity of the name of the 2000+ massacred at the behest of Musharrafs illegitimate regime on July 10, including Ghazi Abdul Rasheed Shaheed, the students of Jamia Hafza, and scores of rasikh-ul-aqeeda young men and children at Lal Masjid, and those who survived.

    When I joined the message board of this blog, during the days after the July 10 massacre, I was intensely grieved over what I believe was one of the biggest human tragedies I had seen unfold in my life. I express myself through my writings and so I knew I needed to express my grief through my words.

    I blog regularly and have my own blog which unfortunately is not in line with what I wished to express. I decided I wanted to set up a website about the July 10 massacre and chronicle the Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza saga. That however was not going to happen overnight. So till then I thought I would find company of like minded people on the internet.

    Thats when goggling led me to this blog. I chose its board to post because its author appeared to me to be a moderate Muslim with a very balanced approach to the issue. I also did not find too much of hostility in the posts against Ghazi Abdul Rasheed. And thats when for the first time I expressed my grief to the world at large. Simultaneously I also discovered other sites, blogs and message boards on the internet some of which lashed out at Ghazi Abdul Rasheed with ferocity while others aggressively supported his cause – the implementation of Shariah in Pakistan.

    While posting on this and other blogs I realized that there were many people out there who were maligning the good name of Ghazi Abdul Rasheed and his compatriots either under influence of the propaganda of tyrant Musharraf and his regime or because of their personal beliefs. These were almost always liberals and liberal extremists whose value system remains forevermore in direct confrontation with anything remotely Islamic.

    So after my initial post, I decided I wanted to continue posting. I have a talent. And I am trained to analyze people and situations. So I decided I was going to employ my talent and my training. I decided I was going to continue writing but whereas it was easier to write on blogs where everyone sympathizes with Ghazi sahib, I wanted to take the risk of venturing into the murkier waters where lurk liberal extremists who spew venom at anything connected to Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza. So I set myself a parameter – to seek out and try my best to neutralize the propaganda of liberal extremists against the rasikh-ul-aqeeda Musalman children, women and men, of Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza.

    It was real difficult and very depressing; to read some of the harshest words I have ever heard any human use for another, dead or alive. But thats the difference between a liberal extremist and a rasikh-ul-aqeeda musalman. Whereas the former will lash out at the opponent with ferocity, using the filthiest language possible to demean and belittle him, the latter uses words worth their weight in gold. And I heard the filthiest possible language used against me and the ones I was defending. It was all very toxic. I felt sick to my bones and I wanted to run away. These are bad bad people whose negativity can be very detrimental to anyone who dont have a thick skin. And I dont have thick skin.

    I burnt the midnight oil on many a nights to analyze posts. I was ONLY picking up parts of posts in which liberal extremists had maligned Jamia Hafza, Ghazi Abdul Rasheed Shaheed and his compatriots and students. I did not address anyone in particular; I was just setting the record straight. And then I discovered posts written under the handle nauman, by evidently a liberal extremist who perhaps represents the darkest side of people on his side of the fence. The filth of his language gave hues of the shade of blood that ran through his veins.

    Analyzing his posts wasnt an easy job. To go through the venom and the filth he put up as writing wasnt a bed of roses. The nonsense of his content was downright a bush of thorns I had to scour everyday. I just knew that if I could just somehow prove that his maligning of the good name of Ghazi Abdul Rasheed was nothing more than a liberal extremist showing contempt against Islam. But he would cleverly guise his contempt and would not allow to be held to any word he said.

    And then I hit jackpot. As I started analyzing posts that were being made under the handle “Ayesha who was writing horror accounts of her familys sufferings at the hands of students of Jamia Hafza, I realized two things – a) she was not being truthful and b) the timing of her posts, the content and the structure were very similar to those of nauman. Until I realized that it WAS nauman posting as ayesha.

    Like I said a small triumph for me. Here at last I was able to prove how underhanded, loathsome and shameful these liberal extremists can be if they want. Lying through their teeth about the students of Jamia Hafza, their whole lot has been involved in running this one big propaganda campaign just so they can justify the massacre their leader has carried out. And to succeed at dispensing misinformation they will lie as hard as they have to, as many times they have to, to whom ever they have to, to wherever they have to, lying in the papers, lying on TV and lying on the internet just as “nauman did. He lied to become Ayesha and as Ayesha he lied to tell stories that were nothing but one big lie after the other.

    What a solace to know that whereas this little nobody who passes himself off as nauman and ayesha and whose language itself is enough to show the breed he is will lead the life of a common man, die when his time comes and be gone forever and forgotten. But Ghazi Abdul Rasheed Shaheed and his compatriots will inshAllah be remembered for all time to come. History will remember them as those who lay their lives for the cause they believed in. May Allah bless their souls.

    I feel a bit lighter now. I know, in essence I have accomplished nothing here. The nobody I have exposed to the world matters to no one. But accomplishing nothing is better than no accomplishment at all. At least I can now say to Ghazi sahib on the Day of Judgment that I exposed to the world at least one LIAR who lied to bring a bad name to you, your compatriots and your cause. And at least I can refer this message board to hundreds out there to make them see how low liberal extremists can get to stay on top of things.

    My work here is done. I need to move away from the toxicity and negative sentiments rampant here. I need to find peace and solace among those who share my viewpoint. I know its easier that way. But I need to heal my hurt. And with invigorated energies and on the hunt again I can perhaps just breeze through this board one day and expose another lie, lay bare open another half truth.

    Until then!

    by haq on Aug 11, 2007 at 5:17 am

  157. DOUBLE VISION

    In my analysis of the posts being made on this board under handles 'ayesha' and 'nauman', I was beginning to have serious doubts about the separate identities of their writers. This morning I finally came to the conclusion that both posts were being made by the same troll. But it was “naumans last post that he evidently posted under the handle “ayesha by accident that finally gave him away.

    Troll Duplication is one of the oldest tricks in the book that trolls employ to sound forcible by “faux camaraderie. They invent a person who posts on the board alongside them, and at strategic points where they need approval from other writers, their invented persona writes in their favor.

    The persona invented by “nauman is “ayesha. He has been making posts under that handle besides his own very smartly making sure they both retain their individuality. “Ayesha he kept articulate and somber in nuance so as to convincingly emulate a female persona, complete with a solemn tone and formal linguistic tenor. In posts he made under the handle “nauman he was more himself – boisterous, rowdy and vulgar in content keeping in line with his actual male personality.

    But just like trolls of his genera, who are intelligent enough to imitate personalities in posts, make the error of letting that similarity become evident in the structure of the posts as well, “nauman too let his slip show.

    I have been able to pinpoint 30 different instances of similarities in the structure of the posts of ayesha and nauman. Most important of these are as follows:

    1.Both use the exact same short forms for ALL words they abbreviate [for instance n to abbreviate and].

    2.Both lack a grasp on the grammar and syntax, skipping verbs and making incorrect usage of prepositions [ayesha: y u constantly bragging abt her sister - nauman: if u hv answered paste me again]

    3.Both use the exact same phonetic spelling for ALL Urdu words they write [for instance mai (from)]

    4.Both write dates in the exact same way [for instance 9th august]

    5.Both use I instead of E when connecting nouns in Urdu [for instance Deen-i-Ghazi]

    6.Both write haphazardly on the board with the exact same disregard to paragraphing or indentation, reflective of “rambling common to both.

    7.Both their posts comprise mostly of very short sentences broken up by ellipses [...]

    8.Both end most of their posts on paragraphs that are in all caps.

    9.Both use phoneticons to mock and ridicule the opponents post [for instance lolzzzz]

    10.Both slide back and forth between English and Urdu in their posts.

    Besides the similarities in the structure of both their posts, there are three more instances of similitude that are uncanny.

    1.“Both made an entry on the same day [August 6], one after the other

    2.Since then they have “both been constantly posting and always on the same day.

    3.“Both live in Islamabad and so both have “first hand knowledge of everything that went on during, before and after Operation Silence/Sunrise of which “both post with the same degree of conviction.

    4.“Both support each others stance completely giving references of the exact same points [for instance both claim that their sisters came under attack of the so-called “burqa Brigade while driving.] And though they both spew venom at the students of Jamia Hafza both fail to explain why they never reported the incidence either to the police or to the press, either then or now, which would prove IRREVOCABLY to anyone who has even an iota of sympathy for the student of Jamia Hafza that they were wrong in their approach.]

    5.“Both use the using the exact same words written in the exact same order [aunty shamin, chinese girls].

    These similarities are indicative of what is known on the internet chat forums and message boards as workings of a “clone. Trolls that clone are said to engage in “Troll Duplication, with the cloned troll being called “replica. “Nauman in this case is the original troll and “Ayesha, the troll he cloned is his “replica

    by haq on Aug 11, 2007 at 9:22 am

  158. lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    i will not give any explaination to it…..if it is possible for u to check the ip address do it urself….now he will say u write one mail frm one pc n another i.e of ayesha’s from the other pc………….
    in my recent mail i hv started using his phrases likemiscreants, troll etc then according to his explaination “haq” iz also me………….as he post on the same date i mean his replies r also on the same date…….GOOD JOB WELL DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    AUNTY SHAMIM N CHINESE GIRLS ARE ALWAYS KNOWN AS AUNTY SHAMIM N CHINESE GIRLS…..as far my sis being attacked is concerned she is my first cousin n i really do not know it was reported in newspaper or not…..she was treated at pns hospital coz her husband is in navy…..n i really do not hv any idea tht they called police or not…but on the other hand there was another col sahib in the room(wen we went to c our sis) whose daughter was brought in emergency she tried to commit suicide….about her i know tht her stomach was washed n was sent home…..its also a crime but i dint c any police even military police doing investigation…..in my neighbourhood a married girl lives….her father went to meet her n infront of her father the man put her on fire n she died…..she was taken to the hospital….i never read it any newspaper.purpose of telling all these incidents is every crime/theft/robbery/rape etc is reported to newspaper…….
    1.i have learnt these short form n or lolz or watever he say while chatting…am i the only person using it? he has himself used lolz in one or two mails.aug 4th post of faisal…he has also used”n”…he also lives in F10 maybe faisal bhi mai hi hun (according to him) as he is also not supporting jamians…he discussed chinese girls…he also wrote lolz…FUNNY!!
    ANOTHER POST OF AMNA on aug 6th has also used “n” not supported ghazi…maybe its also me
    hamza on aug 7th according to haq is also me as he hasnt supported ghazi.ordinar pakistani n my posts also come at same date may be time it means he is also me.
    2.if u read the post of rahim on aug 8th he has also switched from english to urdu n also against ghazi

    2.he also posts on the same day n ourpost come one after another.
    3. ordinary paki tried to speak for ayesha to which he objected in 9th aug post ….may be he is also…..
    4.By NAUMAN on Aug 9, 2007 | Reply
    the way mr haq is TROLLING about deen e ghazi is amazing……y i hv used “e” in deen i ghazi??????????????/

    3.wats wrong if ayesha n me both live in islamabad…..i do not own islamabad….”n” i never said i had first hand knowledge about all this issue…nobody has…..
    4. according to him i always supported ayesha….i only did few days back on her sis issue….she had an arguement i think with adnan on tht pakistani film i never commented….again her issue with adnan was on molvis i never said a word…….
    5.By haq on Aug 9, 2007 | Reply

    [>>>adnan: Political Moulvis are the most corrupt people in politics. these are the people who are damaging the image of Moulvis. But please remember Majority of Moulvis in Pakistan are not like them]

    Well said. I totally agree to that although i think it is a very small minority of Moulvis who are worth their salt in Pakistan.

    ” u have supported adnan it means according to you tht you n him are not seperate ids but one person”
    6. i tried to search in ayesha’s post i in deen i ghazi but i could not find any …may be i missed it…….
    i would conclude by his explaination tht all the people posting here in favour of operation are sending multiple posts or there is only one or two person sending mails with differnt nick……n same goes for the people supporting the operation”
    haq)”So after my initial post, I decided I wanted to continue posting. I have a talent. And I am trained to analyze people and situations. So I decided I was going to employ my talent and my training. ”
    haq>>>>>”It was real difficult and very depressing; to read some of the harshest words I have ever heard any human use for another, dead or alive. But thats the difference between a liberal extremist and a rasikh-ul-aqeeda musalman. Whereas the former will lash out at the opponent with ferocity, using the filthiest language possible to demean and belittle him, the latter uses words worth their weight in gold. And I heard the filthiest possible language used against me and the ones I was defending. It was all very toxic. I felt sick to my bones and I wanted to run away. These are bad bad people whose negativity can be very detrimental to anyone who dont have a thick skin. And I dont have thick skin.”

    ISKO KEHTAY HAIN OLTA CHOR KOTWAL KO DANTAY…..INHON NAI ARMY KO, AUNTY SHAMIM , NELOFAR BHAKTIAR KISI KO NAHI BAKSHA N HE TALKS ABT filthiest language…AGAIN READ THIS POST N YESTERDAY HE SAID I NEVER ADVOCATE GHAZI
    IF U DO NOT HV ANYTHING LOGICAL TO SAY u come up with such stuff……on my repeated request he never been able to defend ghazi’s actions but was very quick in pinpointing president’s act…..
    i never supported musharraf for his actions but i always said on this i support him

    liberal extremist is the term used in his every post….we r also muslims but tht does not mean we indulge in criminal activities in the name of jihad…..a true jihadi in todays world i would call is “zakir naik”…..he is spreading islam through knowledge….if u c on peace tv there r thousands of ppl in his lecture n nonmuslims too…maybe he is also a liberal extremist as he does not support the so called jihad of ghazi in this form…..
    HATSOFF TO U MR HAQ!!!!!!! GUD WORK KEEP IT UP…

    by nauman on Aug 11, 2007 at 12:44 pm

  159. i think nauman never supported me…..i read his yesterday post he never said that he believes but what he said was he beieves me becoz i was taking Allah’s name n if im wrong i will be punished on day of judgement.
    n lot of people post on same day/date.anyways this arguement is of no use.if he believes what he wants to let him.i never cared whatever he said
    in one of his mail haq sahib accused nelufar bhaktiar for kissing a non muslim…..mind u when lady diana came to pakistan she shook hand with many men including maulana type ( i mean people with beard)……….secondly nobody saqw nelofar kissing the man directly.it was in newspapers n it was taken from one angle.in my opinion the man was greeting her n helping her to come to ground .he was wishing her for her acheivement….if u have ever seen men jumping from parachutes they are on ground helped by people…the difference is its their custom to greet like tht i.e touching cheeks …it was nothing more than that.
    i heard her interview on biz plus that how her life n image ruined by ghazi sahib’s fatwa….
    MUJKO TOU YEH NAHI SAMJH ATTI K JAMIA HIZA /LAL MASJID MAI AIK SATH ITNAY NAMEHRAM MARD AUR AURAEIN AKATHAY KESAY REH RAHAY THAY????TAB GHAZI SAHIB KI SHARIAT KIDAR CHALI GAE THI.
    n jasmeen mansoor on tv said that when she went to jamia hifza for interview she was compelled to take parda..n the people attitude over there was obnoxious.she is of biz plus.
    jhoot ki app kia bat kartay hain.when his brother was caught in burqa next day live conversation on geo tv with ghazi was telecasted…the host asked “for Allah’s sake atleast send the small children out”.he said i dont have any kids here.”the host said should we keep it on record that there is no kid below 12 n he said yes”
    tou sab ko pata hai k uskay bad kitnay bachay niklay thay wahan sai…
    when the interviewr asked ghazi rasheed about his brother escape he said he wasnt running away he was going to meet somebody…he asked who was the person n he said i dont know……..funny isn’t it

    anyways mr haq’s aim here is to distract one’s attention from the topic n nothing else…n what ever he has posted today is a poor effort on his part.plz use your anylitical abilities in analyzing the logic n reason behind ghazi’s actions n honestly telling us was it jihad?was he shaheed?
    must do your homework on this.

    by ayesha on Aug 11, 2007 at 3:57 pm

  160. MR HAQ’S LAST WORDS
    My work here is done. I need to move away from the toxicity and negative sentiments rampant here. I need to find peace and solace among those who share my viewpoint. I know its easier that way. But I need to heal my hurt. And with invigorated energies and on the hunt again I can perhaps just breeze
    lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    i can only laugh……….according to him every body is a lier except his so called “shaheed”.if i were nauman or nauman is ayesha why only two individuals used against ghazi…any of us would have then sent multiple posts in our favour….but it did not happen……kuffars, munafiqin , musharafites,deen i ghazi or deen e ghazi are very respectable words to use….
    imagining the death of president’s mother is again his creativity , sincerity n decency…..i am myself releived that none of them on the site could provide islamic logic of ghazi’s actions….first every body used to call out ghazi as shaheed n soldiers as kuffar ..mission as jihad….n to support his cause n death by associating a certain fragrance…..none of them could give any logic….there was an interview of the kid on tv who surrendered at night that people inside the mosque were not permitting us to come out n they said if anybody tries to leave they will shot him…..i know many surrendered before that…to that ghazi made live statement to geo since we had food shortage etc so we sent them out n next day he came up with another statement that we have stored weapons n food which is enough for month.
    he ran away from the blog bcoz he does not have reasons to prove “ghazi’s ideology in the light of quran”..yes he can do if comparing with other politicians or president.
    i will end my post by quoting ayat from surat baqra
    ” aur khuch log kehtay hain k hum Allah aur pichlay paighmbar par eman layay aur woh iman walay nahi. fARAIB dia chahtay hain Allah aur eman walon ko aur haqeeqat mai faraib nahi detay magar apni jano ko aur inhain shaoor nahi.ink dilon mai bemari hai tou Allah nai inki beemari aur barhai aur ink liyay dardnak azab hai, badla ink jhoot ka aur jo un sai kaha jayay zameen mai fasad na karo tou kehtay hain hum tou sanwarnay walay hain.sunta hai wohi fasadi hain magar inko shaoor nahi”

    by ayesha on Aug 11, 2007 at 11:03 pm

  161. Allah does not give you or anybody else the right to abuse someone in this manner….i am not a shiaite myself neither do i agree to the popular version of karballa..however in a decent society such language shd not b used towards anybody….b it a non muslim or some one from another sect.islam is a peaceful n loving religion…our sins n misbeliefs would be clarified on the day of judgement so lets not commit shirk & start stepping into Allah’s domain of judging people.
    u claim to read Holy Quran n yet use filthy language in the same paras as that in which u mention the glorious Quran….highly inappropriate.

    by nauman on Aug 12, 2007 at 11:54 am

  162. Miss ayesha …..u ask for proofs …i think u should wipe ur Face and brush ur teeth before even propagating ur bogus and ill Researched trash.u ask for “islamic logic” yet i ask u have u ever Read quran beside the surahs of chapter 30 with translation and if U did how much ….not to please me but to know for ur self the Answewr for ur questions u tell me the answers to these questions ? 1:is it wrong or unreligious especially from islamic point of view to demmand on all levels for implimentation of shariaah law if not Scrach ur secular brain and look for the 14 points in the legislation (says:pakistans law will be according to quran and sunnah )? 2:during the lal masjid protests how many people became the victoms By stick blows ? 3:if chinese and pakistani prostitues were straightened out via adressing of good teachings is it not the responcibilty of police Or state to carry out this right ful job in the first place (more over how many bled at the hands of moulana during these Acts …maulana went to different police stations in the area and all Of them refused to take action…how long should one wait)…(why isnt there any government yet who dared to even think of shutting down heera mundee).

    4:show me the constitution of pakistan where it is written to Protect and promote prostitution (all international media pictured And named chinese workers and antee shameem as prostitues ….wana Check go to bbc cnn web sites) 5:why did government not take armed action on 12th of may againts mqm terrorists ? Also why did government back down from kargel which was our territory and righfuly pakistani check post?Recalling the above question how many people were killed ,wounded or even harmed by maulana and his peopel before operation silence (this includes the 6 month periode of the senario)?6:according to general (r)hameed gul the army cuasualties should have been mutiple times more than the civilians for the sake of saving Women children and the elderly but the ratio is ncomparable? 7 :the kid u are talking about every one except u and some others like u know that it was staged ….when ever the kid was asked a Question he was continuously blinking his eye and looked at some Thing on the position of x=-ve , y=-ve i.e lower left corner of The cammera or the tv screen ….the boy stated that he kept hiding behind the bricks yet he was un brozed un affraid and clean clothed(several media bodies took him aside and asked him few more questions he Got so much stressed-up in the end that he ended up confessing ” i dont Know any thing more i have a father he is a police man and he is over there !!!”)…but even if u dont believe it u missed the little girl interview On same geo stating that no one is keeping them on gun point and she Was given breakfast and dinner she was even younger than the boy ..Also u missed ajj tv interviews with several people who negated the Things u are trying to implyfy the proof is there on media….8:america is against mujahideen or jihadees or any word relating to it if pakistani army involved in lal masjid incident are given the title of mujahideen why would bush give 75 million/billion dollors to Pakistani mujahideen army and for what? Also geo and other media reported That pakistani army mujahideen used sound proof helicopter for taking pictures of the complex but no matter if it was a sound proof helicopter or not that was Given by the americans to locate usama question is tv reported on security forces Say that an apc was distroyed by a rocket launcher attack by the deffenders of lal masjid …Why they hesitated attacking the helicopters during there three time flight over lal masjid not Even fired a bullet upon them ..???(they might have considered the fact that helicopters are more Expensive than apcs) i think its enough food for u to digest for couple of eons if not ….i dare u to state ur self further but with proof and logic rather being a jew and blaming jessus pbuh for claming divinity …!

    by dark cloud on Aug 13, 2007 at 4:24 pm

  163. Dark Cloud your posts was made in CAPITAL LETTERS – if you are not aware it is considered rude to type in Capital letters on the Internet – this last post I was lenient enough to convert it all into Sentence format but if it gets repeated again consider it to be deleted. I respect everyone’s point of view but please be courteous and considerate to everyone.

    What is also surprising that a huge debate is beign waged from the same IP under the following nicknames – R.A.J.A (2 copmments), Ayesha (1 comment) Nauman (2 comments) these are published above – while a few other comments written by ThunderBird and SilverBlade (also originating from one IP address) have been marked as SPAM as they were all made in CAPS.

    Consider it a warning – I am about to spam block this IP address if it continues to be misused

    by Teeth Maestro on Aug 13, 2007 at 5:15 pm

  164. DearDark cloud.

    amazing i really reaaly apriciate your point of view u really shows mirror. but problem with people is they dont want to see thre ugly faces..

    I really appricate your approch… God belss you Ameen…..

    by saadia Habib on Aug 13, 2007 at 5:28 pm

  165. Madam Ayesha ur point keh etnay sary namehram kasay akhathay reh rahay thay tu for your kind information main nay b akhri din Ume Hassan kay sath he serrender kea tha. whan par koi mard ksisi aurat kay sath nahee reh raha tha balkay men were at seperat plac. woh tu talbat ko daikh b nahee saktay thay yes i agree keh dead bodies ham nay apnay mujahid bahayun ki uthaeen hain jo keh bahad main ur favort gov nay jala deen theen…… aur han jis cheez ka pata na ho us kay baray main bluff na kea karo…..

    by saadia Habib on Aug 13, 2007 at 5:33 pm

  166. Asalamoalikum.
    i read posts and comments mentioned above sadly i would say few brothers and sisters either
    seriously lack inforation especially those people who are against maulana
    bradrans actions or according to their own biased analysis their hatred towards
    towards ghazee brothers and people with them can easily be viewed.
    first question …what were the actions taken by maulana brothers …?
    u tell me ? and how voilent were they …?a brother mentioned that because
    of the ghazee brothers stand the buisness was affected ..! first thing the buisness was still running
    during six month senario it was only after the police rangers got the lal masjid surrounded the buisness started to
    get down not cuz of the ghazee brothers but cuz of the police cuz they were using tear gas…
    2nd if u could review the news back then a merchant was killed by security forces while he got along
    with other murchants of the area and they were comming towards lal masjid and were protesting,,,so please have a slightly
    little more memory thank u …
    if u talk about taking law in ur own hands suppose u are walking down the street and
    u come across a gang who is robbing /beating/killing/raping/looting a person
    what are u going to do in this case …. first option call 911 but its futile
    cuz it aint workin in pakistan 2nd seriously call the police but we all know and its
    a crystal clear fact that police never will come on time 3rd ur soul if alive knocks
    at u and reminds u that u are a muslim and reminds u of a hadeeth saying of ourly beloved holy
    prophet PBUH said “when ever u see a crime stop it with ur hands if u dont have the courage
    to do that then stop it with ur toung and if u lack that as well then at least curse it
    in ur heart and it is the least level or degree of emman (faith)”.
    yet again i ask u what did those maulana brothers do or demand wrong ? its not just a 6
    month story u are dealing with it goes way back !
    have u ever hearad this word called free maison if not or might be but as most of us here are muslims
    and read holy quran and are familiar with a word called jew (Bani Israeel)..!!
    i dont admire hitler he was a damned person but he said “if there are two fishes fighting
    each other in a stream a jew will be behind that plot…when our lovly country pakistan came into existance
    the prime minister/president of isreal said “all children of isreal know this from now on that
    from this day forth pakistan is ur enemy number 1 thats why Quaid e Azam said “that isreal is
    the illegitimate child of United kindom and USA”but before all that Allah says in holy quran
    ” jews and and christians can never be ur friends” (not until u accept their religion)…but this ayah
    according to my understand doesnot reffer to all jewss and christians but specificaly people like sheron
    and Pope benidict (pope benidict recently said bad remarks about prophet mohammad and Allah subhana watala
    also he challanged jehad .but amazingly he now regrets it and hides cuz Dr zakir naik and many other
    internationaly acclaimed scholors of islam have challanged him to a debate and he hasnt accepted it yet).
    My brothers and sisters u remember the incident of baberi masjid and most rescent event of publication
    of cartoons by danish news paper and salman rushdie given the title of sir by the queen….do u even
    realise why this all is happening 1 after the other ….ill give u an example in villages
    women use a tool made up of sticks (called as chhannane ) to throw out insects and stones and
    purify rice. well jews and free maisons have that channane and they use it after certain interval of time
    to analyse and locate the muslims who still have fealings towards their religion.pakistan is 1 of the
    enemies number 1 in their list and they dont want to see it flurish among them .tthey have think
    tanks who plan the distruction of unwanted groups religions countries etc…i recomend u to watch or hear the
    CD by the name of “the shadows”. it will open ur eyes …A triangle …all-seen-one-eye (can be easily
    seen on a dollor bill or note) and david star
    are most popular symbols used by free maison to show their domination over the world.
    u now might have some idea of a force working behind the scenes .every one has to bow down to this force
    and the one who doesnt will burn in its furry and wrath..this exactly resambles to a hadeeth by our holy prophet
    PBUH”when dejaal comes he will have fire in his one hand and water in other those who reject him will
    have his fire as punishment and those who bow to him will have his riches bestowed upon them”.
    does this ring any bell to u ….no …carry out a task for me for ur own good to know some thing …
    check out the american eagle symbol represented by american goverment .. it can be easily seen during government speeches and
    announcements in the light of above hadeeth about dejal”if u cant find it then ill tell u
    what it was all about.but i know u will figure it out.the david star or the star of david (daud alaii salam)
    is the sybol of isreal ..its on every isreali flag… u will find this symbol on products on currency
    on magazines on household products in movies several places ….(i can give proof upon request)..
    u might be thinking at this point that whats this symbol gota do with any thing…well
    think again this symble has gota do with every thing.by showing this symbol they show their domination over the whole world.
    it works like this u will think what they want u to think u will feal what they want u to feal u will eat what they want u to eat
    U WILL wear what they want u to wear even u will dring what ever they want u to dring ….eventualy u will have less or no choice
    ..whats this gota do with lal musjid and ghazee brothers ?
    good question but before i answer that u have to do some home work on free maisons and their idea of domination over
    the world !…we all were sleeping and thought that what ever is happening is happening way over their …in bosnia
    in africa in iraq in palestine in somalia in sudan etc …we were all sleeping …but 911(plotted by US government) shook us all…
    The Americans attacked Iraq for no reason …but they said they had 1 for it (WMD) yeah the weapons of massdistruction
    …they smoked whole iraq in chaos and termoil and yet no answer to this question..bush said
    in his speech at the end of 2006 on CNN in angery and exclamatory tone”we knew that there were no weapons of mass distruuction
    ……(took a pause and said) they will not give us oil …and there are some other purposes…”…its on record u can go and check.
    what kind of a president says things like that any way….I Strongly recomend u to read a book by abid ullah jan(Afganistan the genisis of the last crusade).
    this is a must have book …..appriciated and honored by many english reputed writers who write unbiased.u will get the picture of
    the situations arround us ..
    has any one seen a movie called Zoolander and ROBOCOP 1….i am not trying to be funny here …
    now after talk about free maisons u will get the idea what i am talking about.themovie zoolander is a comedy
    movie its not a big deal…but in the middle of the movie i think there is a song during that song
    from some where the map of india and pakistan imerges to screen …it zooms in and zooms out ….
    there was no line seperating the two nations i would say.it was the map of pre partion india.
    from the looks of it i had no idea what was that about but later after analysing it i got the answer.
    and ill give u the answer …. most of us watch discovery channel and national geographic
    …..well i do most of the time …when ever there is a program regarding ancient fosils and people
    of mouinjodarro …i am talking about texla old civilization…it is rightful to callout the name of pakistan
    when ever the civilization existed here is debated but instead… several hundred times they call it west india..
    not even once or negligible times they callout pakistan……do u think its by mere chance …or just bad luck..
    no dudes its not…u must have seen robo cop 1 …in this movie some where their runs a commercial on tv
    of a playing toy (war simulation toy) …shortly all family memebers in that commercial pass a statement on hat toy in commercial
    but the little boy says some thing realy not relevent to the whole movie and it shocked me ..and i quote
    “Pakistan is threatning my borders “…u can check it the movie is easliy available …what i still gota
    find about this statement is that what was the year of make for this movie and what was happening that time..
    think about all of this brothers and sisters our beloved prophet told us about his appearence.
    i mean the dejaal ..he is here and has been here for a long time in the form of a system …
    they were at first showing symbolic appearence but now they are bold and more open than ever.
    watch national treasure(it gimics total masonic idea)..free maisons are up now to kill true muslims all over the world.
    u must have heard the remarks of the presidential election candidate who says that if he comes in power he will distroy
    mekkah and medina and the holy Qaba (GOD forbbid).down load the cocacola symbol and invert its
    jpg or gif image using acdc software read it in arabic style..
    it surrprisingly says La Muhammad La Mukkah (God forbbid).if i would have told u about cocacola symbol u would
    have laughed at me but now even u try u cant cuz its now getting clearer.lastly does any one know
    a game by the name DEVIL MAY CRY 3 SPECIAL EDITION for play station 2 in this game there is a movie scene
    where virgil (a character) is standing by a gate and a demon possessed man appears holdiing a book
    …he opens the gate to demon world with that book…the horrifying thing is that the door has
    arabic writings on it and if u watch carefully its the door of HOLY qaba that can be easily dentified.
    this game was made over there in japan by capcom …u can see the masonic domination over the whole world.
    thats enough from me for now i hope my statements ,might help shedding light in order to understand every day
    events….i request all of u brothers and sisters to read holy quran with translation
    and understanding and establish regular prayers…for only they can protect us from evils of dejaal
    ..Allah subhanawatalah Guide us All Amen. ASALAMOALIKUM Wereahmatulah wa barakatu.

    by Zone Of Enders on Aug 13, 2007 at 8:00 pm

  167. i thank u sister (Saadiya Habib) i realy appriciate ur encouragement may ALlah help us and Bless us all and give us power to fight off evil. ameen .Asalamoalikum Peace be on you and your family.

    by Zone Of Enders on Aug 13, 2007 at 8:07 pm

  168. brother teeth maestro i acknownledge ur complaint i will see through it that u wont be having it agin and i pray to Allah to bless u with wisdome and courage and to bless u for this major effort we are but a drop in the ocean but with out these drops the ocean will die…asalamoalikum peace be on u and your family

    by Zone Of Enders on Aug 13, 2007 at 8:25 pm

  169. dark cloud)
    my intent has never been to support prostitution or any other evil plaguing our society.my point is tht Ghazi did an unislamic thing throughout this scenerio..Islam Kharooj ki ijazat nahi deta…All ullma aside from political molvis say the same.it should always be our aim to spend life as per the Quran.there cannot b any 2 opinions about this.Islam as i interpreted is not a religion based on hate.the Quran whenever quoted should not be as suited to our interest.we should always quote Quran in context.The following ayat clarifies the chain of authority in our religion.
    its stated in surat Nisa ” aye emaan walo, Allah ki ataat karo aur rasool (p.b.u.h) ki ataat karo aur in logon ki jo tum mai sai hukmran ho.phir tumharay darmian ahgar kisi maamlay mai ikhtilaf hou tou issay Allah aur Rasool ki tarf phair dou, agar tum Allah aur yom e akhrat par eman rakhtay ho.yeh behtar hai aur injam k lihaz sai bhi acha hai”
    Prophet( p.b.u.h) said n i quote ” tum in sai jhagra bas is waqt kar saktay ho jab tum koi khula kufr in ki tarf sai dekho jis k baray mai tumharay pas Allah ki hujjat maujood hou”…..(muslim kitab alamarat)
    this hadees makes it clear on what to do n when to do it….the first point that requires decision is tht if our constituion n our laws are in consolance with the Quran n sunnah…i would like you to point out the relevent sections in our constitution or penal code which support prostitution , gambling etc…u will find tht our laws aside from minor problems relate to the Quran n Sunnah.if not the federal shariat court can always be approached to rectify any problem.now lets anlyze Ghazi sahib’s actions n his position.by all definitions he was the naib imam paid out of govt funds.i cannot understand how a govt employee can rise against his own ruler.shariat requires 4 witnesses to act against a sexual offender.these witnesses appear before a court of law to prove guilt or innocence.anybody accusing a women of immodesty without proof is punishable by 80 koras.auntie shamim or Chinese cannot be prostitutes in the eyes of shariat if bbc cnn or even ghazi sahib says so.we require 4 witnesses. Similarly Osama bin Ladan etc can be a criminal only if proven in a court.a media trial can only b termed as propaganda.( no defense intended).
    If we take Ghazi actions as correct then any one of us can start burning banks as they deal in interest/riba. Kiunkay burrai ko tou rokna chahye. Pakistan is not a secular state it never will be.97 % muslims live here.the right to make decisions for these ppl of Pakistan cannot rest with a person who speaks maybe only for his madrissa.this is against the Islamic concept of shura.any support to such actions would be unislamic because it defies the Quran as quoted earlier n as I quote below
    aur khuch log kehtay hain k hum Allah aur pichlay paighmbar par eman layay aur woh iman walay nahi. fARAIB dia chahtay hain Allah aur eman walon ko aur haqeeqat mai faraib nahi detay magar apni jano ko aur inhain shaoor nahi.ink dilon mai bemari hai tou Allah nai inki beemari aur barhai aur ink liyay dardnak azab hai, badla ink jhoot ka aur jo un sai kaha jayay zameen mai fasad na karo tou kehtay hain hum tou sanwarnay walay hain.sunta hai wohi fasadi hain magar inko shaoor nahi.
    The actions of ghazi brothers is manifest in this ayat.i pray for their souls n all those who died there because none of them was a non muslim.selective application of Islam can not be made.remember ghazi sahib was not even a mufti.
    Some simple questions which u may answer 1. if ghazi sahib was pro shariat why did he defy the above mentioned ayats?? If no police station was registering an fir he could have directly approached the courts,the Chinese embassy etc but he chose abduction without authority.2. if ghazi rasheed was doing jihad why aziz sahib was running away in a burqa??if it was on some govt high ups request I dare ask was it shariat compliant,doesnt islam prohibit men from wearing women clothes3. if there were innocent girls/kids inside why did um e hassan run away from her charges??moreover ghazi sahib himself on tv quoted that no child below 12 was inside 9 refer aljazeera, geo tv)
    4 why were there weapons 1,5,15 or any number inside the mosque.?? Ghazi sahib himself said on tv that he had weapons to last a month where did these weapons come from?? 5.why Chinese were targeted?? Why not the big addas at pir vidhai.was this because of a US link.6sadia im not supportive of the govt , I believe a lot of questions should be asked from those at the top but there mistakes cannot make ghazi sahib correct.i ask u if u were doing jihad then y did u surrender?? Isnt it unislamic to surrender if not prove it from Quran n sunnah
    lets not confuse politics with religion.the govt as it is now has committed huge blunders.they should be addressed but by law not by might

    by nauman on Aug 15, 2007 at 3:38 pm

  170. amar bil maruf is not khuruj at all. plus all ulemas deobandies and berelvis consider musharraf a kafir though they do not have the power to say it alowed. I was quite shocked about this when i asked a prominent mufti in lahore if mush was a kafir for helping in war against afghanistan. He said yes. He said both deobandies and berelvies believe this. The salfi position is clear if you search on google with nullifiers of islam, you will see how many things apply to mush and his supporters.

    by osman on Aug 15, 2007 at 11:19 pm

  171. osman>> no ulma / maulana has the right to declare anybody kafir.yeh tou wohi bat hai k jo hamaray khilaf ho woh kafir hai.jab musharraf or anybody else Allah k namlaiwa hain tou mai ya koi aur unn par kufr ka fatwa nahi laga sakta.aisay tamam ulma ka ilm kafi naqis lagta hai.musharraf ki boht si ghaltian hain but unn ghaltion sai ghazi sahib ki ghaltion ki justification nahi banti.amar bil maroof k liyay targheeb o tableegh ki zarorat hai na k voilance ki.nahi unil munkar ki khuch limits hain har society k rules hotay hain rules tor k Allah k nazdeek mufsid banna aur fisad philana jaiz nahi.ghazi k actions ki intiha kia hoti? mujhay hakomat dou aur kia?islam burqay aur prostitution pai hi sab hukm nahi deta. hamarai society mai aur boht si burraian hain wani,sanwara aur Quran sai shadee k khilaf jihad kiun nahi hota…smuggling karnay walay haji sahiban k khilaf jihad kiun nahi hota?? kalshinakof lenay aur denay walay doston k khilaf jihad k wakt yeh shariat kidar jati hai…anti musharraf honay sai islam badal nahi jata na hi implement hota hai….please do not call anybody kafir as only Allah is our witness

    by nauman on Aug 16, 2007 at 12:34 am

  172. osman>> no ulma / maulana has the right to declare anybody kafir.yeh tou wohi bat hai k jo hamaray khilaf ho woh kafir hai.jab musharraf or anybody else Allah k namlaiwa hain tou mai ya koi aur unn par kufr ka fatwa nahi laga sakta.aisay tamam ulma ka ilm kafi naqis lagta hai.musharraf ki boht si ghaltian hain but unn ghaltion sai ghazi sahib ki ghaltion ki justification nahi banti.amar bil maroof k liyay targheeb o tableegh ki zarorat hai na k voilance ki.nahi unil munkar ki khuch limits hain har society k rules hotay hain rules tor k Allah k nazdeek mufsid banna aur fisad philana jaiz nahi.ghazi k actions ki intiha kia hoti? mujhay hakomat dou aur kia?islam burqay aur prostitution pai hi sab hukm nahi deta. hamarai society mai aur boht si burraian hain wani,sanwara aur Quran sai shadee k khilaf jihad kiun nahi hota…smuggling karnay walay haji sahiban k khilaf jihad kiun nahi hota?? kalshinakof lenay aur denay walay doston k khilaf jihad k wakt yeh shariat kidar jati hai…anti musharraf honay sai islam badal nahi jata na hi implement hota hai….please do not call anybody kafir as only Allah is our witness.ullema ki rayay Quran i pak par foqiat nahi rakhti.

    by nauman on Aug 16, 2007 at 12:36 am

  173. nauman its very difficult to read your romanized urdu. Every one has the right to call another a kafir. The only issue is that if the accusers is wrong he himself becomes a kafir. I can call mush a kafir. If I am wrong I will become a kafir. This is from Sunnah. There is very strong daleel for mushs kufr. You are correct that if someone opposes you then you calling someone kafir is nonsense. But if you do it based on quran that is different.

    If no one can call some one kafir then exaclty how were musilmans kazzabs followers declared kafirs? how were the munkiran zakat declared kafirs? how were the qaidanis declared kafirs.

    Its very serious business to call someone a kafir. But when all ulema agree from every school of thought that someone or sect is a kafir like the qaidanis or mush then there is a lot of weight to the argument especially if they have a daleel.

    anyways surah maidah verse 44..

    And those who do not judge by what Allah has revealed are the kafirun.

    1) All schools agree that deliberalty not implementing islamic law becuse thinking some other system is better is clear kufr. not doing out of weekness is acceptable according to some schools and not acceptable according to some. However going to war against those wanting sharia is clearely kufr.

    2) Supporting kafirs againsts muslims in war is clear kufr. Agreed upon by Salfis, deobandies and berelvies. THis is basis for complete agreement on mush kufr by ulema.

    It is imperative for ones own aikharat that one finds the truth.

    What you have to realize is that finding the truth is as important for us muslims as it is for jews or hindus or christians.

    Allah expects us to find the path too. Not just them.

    For us muslims the fist thing we must make sure is that we understand shirk and kufr, so that we dont advertenlty end up being kafirs. For our own sakes.

    when you explore this you will find remarkable amount of commanality among most islamic schools of thought thought adimitidly some difference too.

    However, in the comaniltiy you will find things which will scare you about where we pakistanis stand.

    Whether ghazi was wrong or right, I am not aware of any open kufr he did. He was apposed by mush who has certainly done open kufr in 2 if not more categories. Those who support his actions by heart and voice perhaps share his fate. Ulema opposed him because they said he did not have sufficient force to mount a rebellion. Question is did he actually do a rebellion. THere have been far bigger and more violent protest throughout the world without people being killed by their own governments.

    Please find the turht for your self. Find out what Kufr and shirk are. Find the proofs and the daleel. Its guidance we all need.

    You are absolutely correct that you have to have compelete islamic system. THe limit of Ghazis demand should be an islamic sharia based government not a kafir government like we have. If he wanted personal power for himself then he would have been wrong. However he said he would accept mush as amir if he implemented the sharia. Why he went after the prostitutes was because that was burai closet to him. Sahih Muslim hadith is clear about using strength to stop evil. Ofcourse if you do and you make a mistake you are liable. eg. if aunty shamim was a neik aurat then ghazi or whoever detained her should have been liable for detainment according to whatever sharia says. If however there was sufficient evidence against her well then.

    Any ways as for Aunty Shamim, Sheik Rashid mother, a woman who says she would become a chirstian because of this has hardly any conviction about being a muslim.

    by osman on Aug 16, 2007 at 2:14 am

  174. http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=7476

    poor naik aunty shamim and our politicians

    by osman on Aug 16, 2007 at 3:45 am

  175. osman >>>> if aiding kuffar against muslims is kufr then by ur definiton almost all our ullema including ghazi n those who participated in the afghan jihad (so called)are kuffar or all those muslims who were with najib were kuffar.this also makes all rulers including babar the gr8 who faught against ibrahim lodhi , mehmood ghaznavi who killed n raped muslims in kallat n iraqis n irani's are kuffar…i believe that we r making the mistake of labelling political disputes as religious disputes.Allah does not sanction mosques / madriisas on illegal lands.we have a clear example from sunnah on this.Allah alsdo does not allow killing of muslims in the name of shariat.remember 15 soldiers/policemen ( all muslims) died in this fight.Allah also does not permit lying cheating riba and a lot of other things.in your honest opinion anyone not offering prayers i.e a clear order from Allah is a kafir i.e not so.each sin has some punishment the higher you are the more responsibility u have towards Allah n his people.this was a shared responsibility which musharraf n ghazi had.the difference is that musharraf is an elected president weather by a deal or something else.ghazi was not even an mna.your definition of kafir interestingly also applies to the maulvi govt of nwfp where is sharia in nwfp? i ask you y ghazi sahib woke up to shariat only when jamia hifza was to bge demolished? y not before? was shariat as defined by ghazi present in pakistan before this…the answer is no…i do know that ghazi brothers were happy under the rule of army dictators before this.therefore their call for shariat to me is just politically motivated and foreign funded as the only beneficiaries of our bad relations with china are india america n israel.no support to prostitution is intended but i dare ask y more famous addas @ pirvidhai n heera mandee not shut down by our maulanas.vested interests….there shariat is certainly not islm.

    as far as manian i zakat are concerned, understand that zaakat was the only tax on which system of governance was based in those times.it is ofcourse a clear order by which islamic society would flourish.the mujtahid was abu baqar razi Allah not ghazi rasheed.there is a differnce in stature.your allegation of musharraf being a qadiani is based on heresay..'what lies in one's heart is only known by Allah".in all govt departments a form is signed by all muslims declaring their faith.there have been qadiani christian n parsi generals in the pakistan army but by law no qadiani can become the cheif of army staff or president.musharraf signed that declartion when he was a cadet in pma.therefore by his own admission he is a kalma go muslim unless documentry evidence proves otherwise.if he is a qadiani his office should be challanged in the supreme court.lastly everything on the internet is not true.political propoganda n religious criminals do post even anti islamic websites..would u treat them as correct?satanic verses is a famous book written by a guaranteed hell bound author.its fame n circulation does not make it true.does it???????

    u wrote "Whether ghazi was wrong or right, I am not aware of any open kufr he did"

    Were the following acts for “a struggle to break the country free of shackles of a lawbreaker or “for the implementation of Shariah laws:

    Illegal encroachment on a government land,

    Illegal occupation of a childrens library,

    Kidnapping and illegal confinement of women,

    attack on businesses and forcing them to shut down,

    Kidnapping of policemen,

    Setting up parallel courts within a state against the laws of that state,

    Kidnapping and illegal confinement of foreigners,

    Snatching arms and equipments from security personnel,

    Firing and killing security personnel,

    damaging and burning, public and private property,

    Keeping arms and ammunition in a mosque for no apparent reason,

    not laying arms on the request of authorities and firing at security personnel during the leniency period of 5 full days,

    keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endangering their lives (also many of them got killed during the operation).

    If so many people have died and everything is so obvious with so many indications, then why is anyone not going to court? Secondly, when it was repeatedly announced for continuously five days that people inside should come out, and they will not be harmed, then what is the justification of anyone still hiding inside OR they were being kept there against their own will.

    ( as pointed by ordinary pakistani n i agree)

    by nauman on Aug 16, 2007 at 7:37 pm

  176. Asalamoalikum (this dialogue is mainly adressed to nauman)

    4:75 And why should u not fight in the cause of Allah And of those who, being weak,
    are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, Women, and children, Whose cry is:”Our Lord ! Rescue us from this town,
    Whose people are oppressors;And raise for us from u one who will protect ; amnd raise for us from u One who
    will help!”.

    Surah Al Baqarah

    2-191 and slay them when ever u catch them ,and turn them out from where they have turned u out ;
    For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter;But fight them not At the sacred masjid,unless they (first)
    Fight u there ;But if they fight u ,slay them (at masjid).Such is the reward Of those who suppress faith.

    192:But if they cease,Allah is oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

    193:And fight them on Until There is No more tumult and Oppression,And there prevail justice and
    faith In Allah (subhana watalah).But if they cease, Let there be no Hostility Except to those
    Who Practise oppressioin.

    i would sadly say brother nauman i am highly disturbed by ur illresearched and biased statements.
    .. have i ever adresserd u ….i was adressing to miss ayshas comments and for u to
    to intrupt from no where and adressing to my issue was immodest and unethical (i sign a protest to ur
    behaviour)secondly dear Brother i just dont know that instead of rallying up with the main stream u
    are showing confrontation and mockry…. i realy dont get u.. u say some times this some times
    that….but never clear…any way ill adress to clear ur mind up a bit ..well i can juat try
    i dont know whats bothering u realy about maulana brothers yet still up to defend those
    prostitues while u proclaim to have shown some witnesses in case of accusation ….

    i got a strange taste of ur mixed up noodle…. should i cry or should i laugh .
    The major problem we are facing today.
    especially with lunatics like mubbashir on ONE channel talkshow quote verses of quran but
    totaly out of context ….he quoted once the surah of holy quran” there is no compulsion in religion” and he
    stated that if a woman or a man ….women in perticular ..wear any type of dress …
    no one can object to them ….”the real problem starts right here u read a part of the quran and not full.
    in context it shall be “there is no compulsion in religion truth stands out (away) from error”
    that means u have to consider surah noor 24:30-31 (read this recommended http://www.ishwar.org/com(holyquran)).
    so point is people play games with holy quran like jews and christians do to their bible.lot of verses in
    bible clearly negates the things they say and do .
    you quoted surah of holy quran 4:59 but u quote it out of context read 4:44-61.also 4:83
    u will come to know that Allah subhana watala is telling us about jews and their demonic deeds.
    jews invented lies upon lies and commited shirk upon shirk … allah tala is telling us that that they never
    reffered to the scriptures given to Ibrahim (AS).so now after 4:56 i.e after mentioning the punishment
    allah tala turns towards muslims and away from jews and is telling them that when u (believers) obey him and his
    massanger and those charged with authority…if u disagree with those who are charged with authority among ]
    u then refer it to Allah and his massanger if u do believe in allah and his massanger…now what does it mean
    by reffereing it to allah and his massanger ….yes reffering to Holy Quran.show them holy quran so that they correct them selves.

    u were totaly in error to lay alligation against molana reffering the surah .

    instead read this to straighten ur self

    2:44 Do u enjoin right conduct on the people ,and forget (to practice it) yourselves,and yet
    u study the scripture?Will u not understand?

    u mentioned that ” u can only fight them when ever u see them doing kuffr openly”.
    brother i seriously ask u were u sleeping before lal musjid incident ,,,that u never saw any thing that is kufr according to quran
    and sahih hadeeth……12th may incident is slaping ur lieing face hard .
    have u read the surah of holy quran where Allah Said ” who so ever deals in intrust Allah
    And His Rasool Rage war against him”……dont be speechless after reading this ayah i know u have read it before .

    u say that u recquire 4 witnesses to prove 1 guilty for bad deed.
    ur understanding of Holy quran seems to be null i am affraid so…

    11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

    u said and i quote “If we take Ghazi actions as correct then any one of us can start burning banks as they deal in interest/riba”
    and the answer is:= Allah Said in Holy Quran ” who so ever deals in intrust Allah And His Rasool Rage war against him”

    but i ask u how many banks did maulana burn …yet u lay a new and another lieing alligation which the governemt even wont back .

    now

    4 witnesses are required when the ruling law is shariah law and ruling goverment is according to Quran and sunnah.The
    shariiah laws has never been implemented since establisment of pakistan.First we should understand why 4 witnesses are
    required? When shariiah is properly implemented all women and men must dress up modestly and do hijab on all levels according
    to surah noor 24:30-31.when people dress up modestly and opposite sexes dont try to feast upon each other …and unfortunatly
    rape or prostitution takesplace then 4 witnesses are required because women already keep them selves behind vail(isolation).
    so it might be difficult for them to prove their innosence .so it becomes an obligation upon the accuser to bring forth 4 witnesses.
    it is ordered to believeing men that they should not waste time in wondering arround the streets and ordered to women to move in streets very quickly
    while going from one place to another so that one might not be able to breed disease in his heart for long.

    look at media look at television look at people arround, look at the movies people watch, look at the children in
    schools and colleges what is our youth mostly talking about.they are talking about exactly what]
    media is propagating .i think there was a statement of indra ghandhi which burried muslim pakistan long ago.

    Stating this humilliating statement which is enough for us to burry our selves
    in shame she said “we have defeated pakistan on cultural and social levels go to the citis of karachi and examin the video shops they
    are full of indian movies and culture”.But i say, go to any city of pakistan and u will find hindustani culture almost every.

    During Lal Majid senario i was watching this horror on GEO television and there was a commercial break.
    a female model comes to screen and says that she was going to introduce to us a very important and top personality.
    yes ur famous actress prianka chopra .sadly i would say at this point our publics eyes and mouth opens up wide
    upon hearing their beloved hindu actors and actresses names . They say we are muslims but if ask about a few names of our beloved sahabs
    they ask in astonishment that who are they !? ….O allah give us Hidayah!!!i was speach less on her this statement.the model asked her
    what do u want to say to pakistani people.she replied it is ur love and dedication that we are successful in our
    movies we make these movies only for u…. this is a time for us to slap our Faces harder and ask who are we …why did we seperate pakistan and for what?

    u talk about 4 witnesses yet i ask u in this age of science and technology especially
    in secular state of pakistan where u must be aware of KB internet cafe incident where video cameras captured every thing.
    Do u still require 4 witnesses .today after advancements in medical and bilogical sciences we can examin all sorts of matters with huge amounts of evidences.

    To help u out in recovering ur short term memory
    data loss .Do u remember hadood bill passed by the government.All newspapers are full of stories and reports u can cross check
    that several prostitues of heera mandee distributed sweets among each other on passing of hadoodbill also in the parliment
    several politions distributed sweets among each other in the parliment this was shown live on tv channels.
    several top level newspapers conducted interviews with some of the sex workers of heera mandee …who stated joy fully that
    many of them left this area cuz police took lota commission from them as well as they bothered the customers but now after the bill has passed
    police can not interfere.scrach ur mischievous head and ask ur self isnt it a secular state.if it is not why would prostitutes
    distribute sweets?

    reguarding antee shameem and Co it is very simple …let her be examined medicaly and truth shall free her ….it was enough
    to say that international media portrayed them as prostitues because its not a big deal for them after all its legalised in their
    countries so they dont care .But still u are up to defend those prostitues so much i ask u what was the need for international media to show this women along with
    others as prostitues.more over why did not government take action upon this issue correcting the international media…
    Or better yet the answer lies in our own media explanation..why was GEO continuously calling her as antee shameem…..? why antee shameem?
    Why Not Mohterma Shameem sahibah? why not miss shameem sahibah ? after all she was a lady…but instead GEO and other tv channels called her as
    antee shameem? i recquire a logical answer backed by solid proof …i strainghted ur propaganda so back at u buddy ….

    banee israeel asked for cow specifications and Allah made it harder on them to even find the cow…but words
    some how keep adding to the lieing toung of people like bush?

    there are several talk shows on geo tv as well as some other programs on which they show saympathy towards prostitues…several talks shows
    are being conducted to defend and legitimise their deeds….is this secular pakistan or what ?
    cuz in an islamic state under shariiah law such things can never occure!

    did molana sahib even harm her when she was being held under their custedy but instead the women of the masjid told her about the right way and
    teachings of our deen and they freed her …. how much broozes she had when she left the masjid?
    dont be a hypocrite brother nauman!

    Now i felt Big Hypocracy behind ur intention in mentioning of 2nd ayah …..
    who gave u the authority to impose the meanings of ayah over ghazi brothers ….u have totaly lost ur mind and soul ….
    how come u say that ghazi brothers fit in this ayah and not the government .i find u totally illogical.
    recal ur short term memory again to 12th of May when 40+ innoscent people were murdered by MQM terrorists underthe super vision
    of government.President Musharaf said during his speech on that day” we have demostrated our might and power today in karachi”.
    what does this mean?

    You gave another hypocratic remark saying that Maulna sahab should have gone to court …!?
    Mr Nauman are u running in a high fever ?
    Chaudry Iftekhar was begging for justice him self in the same courts which u reffered to.
    i remember reading a column in express newspaper …Jawed Chaudhry stated an incident about a boy who was
    kidnaped by agencies and his parents after getting disappointed from police came to him and asked him to help them
    locate their son.he said how can i even help u when a judge cant find justice for him self in the same courts where 1ce he offered his job?

    Also several mothers were protesting in front of lal majid for a long time for their sons being kidnaped by unknown people.
    the newspapers back then were full of their pictures holding portraits of their love ones…?

    2222222222222222222222222222222222

    reguarding ur 2nd question….first off …try to read holy quran and with translation before u die cuz u might get some answers.
    u asked “ghazi rasheed was doing jihad why aziz sahib was running away in a burqa??
    if it was on some govt high ups request I dare ask was it shariat compliant,
    doesnt islam prohibit men from wearing women clothes” (an enemy would think exactly like that with out considering the possibilities
    or at least try to continuously advocate against the defender on the other hand a friend will give it some thoughts)
    the answer to ur alligation is that have u read the ayah in Holy quran which says that u can have the meat of a pig ie the unlawful becomes lawful
    when u have to save ur life …but have it so much so that u can survive until u get the lawful…most of us muslims know
    about this ayah…more over when any government muslim/nonmuslim sends its disguised agents abroad …many times they disguise them selves as hindu
    pundits some times as priests etc …does this mean they become non muslims ..most certainly not ….in war u acquire means what ever necessary to decieve ur enemy to gain
    upper hand over them startegicaly. that is quite understandable but since u are v young to understand this point i ask u that
    suppose i agree with u for sake of arrgument that maulana aziz ghazee sahib did wear it intentionaly ….what kind of punnishment shariiyah gives for this act…
    more over that act just seperate only 1 person from thousands of other fightining for just cause …so ur accusatiion is lame and doesnot justify the governments brutal blood bath at lala Shrine .

    333333333333333333333333333333333333

    ur third question is totally false .what charges she had at the first place ..u make me laugh Mr nauman
    u get feeds with out cross checking …tell me did the same people not put charges on Chaudry iftekhar …the result is
    there in front of u….he won and government lost …2ndly if government has put charges over her …yet i ask has she been given fair trial yet to at least
    defend her self………brother noman u are accusing highly respect and reputed muslims even respected by government personalities like
    ijazul haq….so try to be a litrate and modest muslim …when ever u call her name again try to call her respected umme hassan.

    444444444444444444444444444444444444

    media was getting all the information from army cuz of curfew so there was no independent
    source at all and every one was relying on army sources at 2AM while starting operation scilence durrani and Co stated at the
    end of their speech while their adress to media and nation “who so ever tried to politicise
    lal musjid happenings like 12th may incident (media coverage) shall be dealt in the same mannar as we are dealing with lal masjid.
    after that all media tone was strictly changed to be be biased towards government.

    u asked why were there 1515 number of weapons inside the masjid ?

    firstly maulana sahib continuously said on tv stations that we dont have much weapons we have few weapons and we have
    lisences for that to which no government person objected but instead he said that they had sufficient food for the time being
    but lack of water because water had been cut off….but most importantly where did u get this 1515 figure from ? did u go ur self over there u say no
    you saw it on tv …i ask ok my son was tv allowed there immidiatly after operation scilence was finshed ..and the answer is no…well my friend
    go to a newspaper sellar and ask for newspaper in which the pictures were printed showing weapons in side the masjid …..
    thousands of people are asking questions that every thing after the operation can be seen fully dusty and unclean/burned along with dust bodies
    burned scarched by the bullets and broozed.but how come before dieing they decided to clean the weapons and place unused.
    there was not a single dust particle over any of the shown weapon..more over how can u trust the government and pass over the thought
    that they cant be implanted by government..
    remember the incident when government showed 7 bodies of out siders claiming that they arent pakistanies …but later next day after pictures came in news
    paper 1 body was identified by a women and she along with her nazim went to claim the body of
    her son named usman who got his shahadat in the masjid and he was a teenager .his brother was in hosppital with injuries.

    555555555555555555555555555555555555

    stupid and false question .. the chinese case was investigated and after passing of few
    hours they even showed the relative of those chinese in peshwer…both police and government
    made it very clear that the chinese murders had nothing to do with lal masjid incident .
    those were muslim chinese murchants who were told several times by police tohire some gurads to avoid a possible
    robbery.they acknowledged the fact and replied that they arent strong enough finnacialy to
    hire a security guard..according to police it was an armed robbery……so keep ur self up to date.
    u disappointed me dear brother ….the suran u quoted above actually fits on u…

    666666666666666666666666666666666666

    Mr nauman u are asking her that why did she surrender ? u are v cold hearted person …no one surrendered …
    neither was any 1 willing to surrender …this term was shoveld down ur throats by government ..
    it was governments terminology…here u negate ur self u are a true goverment supporter …u said above
    u were not but now u prove it over and over…u and people like u never use ur heads and with analysing and
    investigating u hear and u propagate …. with out considering the possibility that it could be false …
    Prophet mohammad PBUH said “when dejjal will come he will say its day and people will say yes it is when he
    will say its night people will say yes ” but Holy quran says that..” if a person (or source)upon whom u have doughts
    approach u and gives u news dont believe it check it up before u pass it to others …
    Do u adress to ur mother and sister in the same mannerlike u are adressing to her…sister sadia is a mazloom …she is a victom
    …instead being sympethetic to her u insult her and she is our sister try to talk in appropriate manner ..try to learn some manners

    i dare u to state ur self but not with lies cuz i had enough from u

    by Dark Cloud on Aug 17, 2007 at 5:41 am

  177. Asalamoalikum.

    Nauman you proclaim to be a neutral person yet u are a full time government supporter.
    in your last dialogue u openly spoke for the government and totaly copy their words.
    u have totaly opposed maulana with biased reasoning
    and exposed ur self cuz u are openly advocating the government.And this is outrageous.
    let me enlighten u dear brother

    a few months back there was a hot issue opened by the newspapers that several police men and government
    agencies had some torture cells ..and they kidnapped thousands of people with out any case and tortured
    them in those cells for unlimited ammount of time.u can crosscheck all news papers .this was
    long before lal masjid incident.and news papers told about few hotels that were used for this kind of work.
    Nauman if urfather or mother or brother or sisterunfortunatly happend to be in those kidnapped and
    trotured persons what would u do? where would u get the help from..

    before giving bad name to jihadi organisations in pakistan just watch the recent video footage by
    hamid mir on flooded areas…many people stated on record that no government help yet approached them
    except young boys from jehadi organistaions from serhed came to help them.hamid mir went to interview the sindh minister reponcible for
    flood relief and asked him that why did he not send help..the minister replied while cuoting names
    of few flooded areas that they were cut off cuz the tracks to these areas have been over come by floods.
    hamid mir repplied that he was comming from the same areas and he reached those people and helped them the
    way he could and recorded their statements and he had limited resources …why couldnt he being a minister go
    there using his resources.he started mumbling and said this foolish statement.” O well this is what the opposition try
    to insult me and take me down”(Curtsy Geo TV )…Is president musheref ware of these kind of ministers.
    how can he let people like him rule as irresponcible minster keeping so many lives at stake.

    Our Beloved Khaleefa Rashid Hezret Umer (RA) said “if even a dog dies thursty in my kingdom i would be held responcible by Allah on day of judgement”
    then how could just these ministers sleep well while people are dieing with hunger thirst and disease.

    brother nauman ghazee raheed sahab is asking u a question that when government agencies were kidnapping their
    students unlawfuly …who was going to get them back…the agencies detained them unlawfully, took their clothes
    off and started beating them called their parents bad words saying we will get ur parents as well and
    and torture them..they called horrible words on them.

    the agency cars blocked the way of female students of jamia hefza almost every day and said unspeakble words
    to them so that they disperse away from jamia hafza (RA).
    can u even question those agency personals that did our holy prophet PBUH preach such methodlogy
    to be adopted but instead he said to the captives of war that who so ever can teach 10 words
    to a muslim can go free.he did not torture them ever .Prophet Mohammad PBUH forgave hindah who ate his bloved uncles liver.
    but we are talking about muslim lives here.they were butchred for demanding shriyah law.

    read the interview of General Mirza Aslam Beig ..he said on tv in Dr shaids Programm Maira Mutabik that
    children from Becon House came to mulana Rasheed Shaheed rehmatullah Aliah and told him about chinese massage centre.
    Becon House school children demanded action from maulana to remove the filth from their city.
    General said why would becon house children come to maulana .this doesnt make sense
    for people with modernized ideology to go to people like mulana brothers.this seems a setup according to General Mirza Aslam beig sahab
    and it was staged.
    About antee shameem that people living near her house came to maulana and during his khutbas people
    said to him …that u talk about cleanlenessand eeman while people like her are making this place filthy.
    we went to police and they dont take action.please help us.

    the two brothers were forced to take action.

    taaa mooroo na bil maroof wa nehahu anil munker wa tu manoo na billah

    moomin woh hai jo acha eee ka hukum daita hain aur buraai sai rookta hai ..

    if police is not doing any thing and maulana took action …was it wrong if it was wrong how long should one wait a our youth get distroyed .
    go infront of central hospital rawalpindi and see for ur self that there is a antee with several young girls there …they
    group up there mostlty night times from 8 and onwards .i use to come via that road from my friends shop to my home and 1 day
    i asked my friend on motorcycle that this group looks fishy …the aunty is having pan and she has a mobile
    and there is a group of boys trying to talk to the group of girls with the antee and they are giving cheep smiles.my
    friend told me that this is the story i got angery that its happening so openly lets go and tell the police .he said they have the
    backing of police other wise that antee cant run her buisness so well in th eopen.and he was right
    we went a few steps further and there were 3 police men standing over there ..i got realy disappointed .

    reguarding kidnapping of policemen by maulana…..to tell u the back ground a suzuki mehran was petroling
    in front of lal masjid over and over students took notice of the car slowing down infront of
    lal masjid repeatedly.there were few men wearing shalwarkameez and they looked at the stoudents and the
    lal masjid suspiciously.the students feared that they could be planning a bomb blast or to fire upon people of
    lal masjid and they cought them and brought them inside the masjid.maulana came up to them and asked them
    to identify them selves and what were they doing in front of the masjid. they said that they were policemen
    and maulana asked why were u in civilian suits why not in police suits so that we could have recognised
    u they repplied that they were spying on lal masjid.maulana called the government people
    and asked them that were they sent by them …and they said yes we sent these police men .
    maulana asked why did u let them spy on us and they did not reply.(Curtsy GEO TV)

    1.Brother Nauman Unfortunatly if some body kidnaps ur sister or mother and rapes her and
    police is unable to do some thing about it ..what will u do ?

    i know hundreds of such cases in punjab sindh and serhed …if u can help let me acquire ur sevices
    for allah will give u reward for this.

    2.many cases came to ghazi brothers and he told hamid meer in an interview in the lal masjid
    about several people who were being harrased by people in power and no one could do
    any thing to help them.when u are so much help less and no one takes responcibility
    to provide u justice people take law into their own hads.

    3.Read the book Military Inc by Dr ayysha sidiqque ur mumbling mouth will rest for a
    couple of years from defending this ferishta government.

    4.if the top judge recquires more than 6 months to justice for him self how can a common
    man get justice for him self.

    5.I quote u my own personal experiences … my grandfather took loan from house building finance
    corporation.we payed the loan in full and went to the court near fatima jinnah university.
    they give a recipt after verifying the case and government charges some money.My father Took 550
    ruppes along with him .when we saw the charging recipt i was astonished to see the charge.
    it was 1110 Rs.may father said that how can it be it can never be that much.we saw a relative
    of ours who came here quite often for the same purpose.we had to go back home to get more money
    and it seemed a hard thing to do in scorching heat of sun light.our relative said let me talk to them
    and i thought what is going to talk about if its a government fee how can they even leave us a penny.
    we were about to leave and he returned saying give me the money and he got it done and got the recipt.
    we barrowed 450 from him and payed the government with total of 1000 Rs.
    i was praying for him and those government people in the court who solved our case with 110 Rs less
    .but when i took a look at the recipt it was marked with 100Rs charge.i got furious and
    said to my uncle let us talk to them ..this is outragious ..they are looting us in the open.
    my uncle said yeasterday he came to check on a file and they charged a fee ….he said he asked for it
    that whats the charge for and they made the file lost he gave them 300 Rs and the file was found.
    he said they will make our file lost again and we might have to pay more than expected so just get out of here.
    tell me where should i go to for justice.

    6.not only that my uncle ran a rent a car buisness .he ran it in partnership.he had toyota 2OD and a suzuki carry.
    one day they got robed and car jackers threw the driver out.my uncle had to close down his buisness
    due to huge blow in buisness.he couldnt stand up and started working at a shop to make money for daily bread .
    after a month or 2 some of his relatives from down punjab called him and told him that what was
    his carry and 2OD doing in their city far away from Rawalpindi.my uncle told him about every thing and immidiatly went to
    them.they went to the city police station and reported the crime.police investigated and then did not reply.
    they went again to them and asked for the progress police told them that this is futile u cant get them.
    my uncle asked why and police man replied that the car jackers are relative are Chaudery Shujjat.we
    value our lives as well as the lives of our families.we dont want to wake up dead.
    we cant even bother those people.just go home ur cars are lost for ever.Now can u help me MR nouman in this case.

    7. a cousin of mine who is now in UK used to work as a driver and a loader for the army two years back.
    his task was to load boxes and drive them some place.An army person ranking subedar major or
    some one like that always accompaiedd him.one day they were stoped at attock check post
    and security checkedd their boxes.they immidiatly got the arrested cuz they found out (cheresss) white
    powder in those boxes. my cousin grabed that army guy by the collor and started crying that
    i am just a poor driver why did u not tell me and kept me blind .how am i going to feed my poor family.security
    acknowledged his innosence and let him go.but next day i never read the incident in the newspapers or the days after that.

    these are just just three incidents happened to me and my relatives personaly out of 10s of thousands
    happening every day.

    8.after the earth quake incident several stories were heard which were horrible that i cant describe …i was there
    along with other brothers to help the victoms .it was horrible every where .there was an incident happend
    reported in the newspapers that an army Dr with a captain rank raped a woman already a victom of earth quake
    and then he ran away.he took refuge some where and was never brought to justice.
    several incidents reported in newspapers about kashmir where NGOs used the loal village girls and raped them and forced them to do the dirty jobs ..
    they were threatened via several ways and black mailed and manipulated.the girls giving interview
    to several newspapers told that many girls had no one left to take care of them so they were keeping quite
    because they were very affraid.some were left with old parents to take care of and had no choice but to work
    with NGOs .we along with a few others couldnt bear it.they at first talked us nicly and gave us jobs with good
    salries but after a few days they started telling us to work late hours .onday they gave us some kind of drings and
    juices and told us to sit in the office .we drank them and got unconcious ..when we woke up our clothes were torn off
    and we were nacked .they showed us our pictures taklen in that condition and told us to work with them
    or they will black mail them.these are not made up stories by me the news papers back then were full of these stories
    u can cross check… for me there are enough rape stories to read in iraq by american army.

    9.thousands of rapes take place every day .just a very few people like mukhtaran maeee get the attention
    of international organisations .and they cashed her out to insult our government further and image of
    pakistan was let down.why couldnt people like mukhtaran maee find justice in pakistan.

    10. several people like ghazee have lava inside their hearts that cant be kept in side because
    of so much injustice.

    11. u say pakistan will never be secular…i think u are day dreaming…our country deals in ribah
    and allah said in holy quran that “who so ever deals in ribah allah and his massanger rage war against him”.
    our tv channels show nudeness and nakedness as a part of our unislamic culture.
    even children are being given sex education via cartoons.the advancement in the media has brought
    more negative impact upon our social and moral values than even a bit of +ve.indian movies given
    appriciation shows reflection of indian culture in pakistan.so what are u crying about.pakistan is not pakistan any more.
    it never has been.people get their moral education via stage dramas and government supports
    them.

    12.think bigger and on a broader scale .Holy quran and hadeeths of holy prophet PBUH told us about
    comming fitna of dejjal .70 flags will gather to fight the muslims .what is united nations and what does it do.
    where it was when there was genoside in bosnia and chechniya…where is it when innoscent people are being killed by the thousands
    in afganistan iraq kashmir suddan somalia and palestine.where was it when 710000 people were killed in rawanda.

    13.do u know who helped out americans in somalia against islamic groups fightining for freedom over there…yes pakistani army.
    watch the movie by ridly scott BLACK HAWK DOWN.

    14.why did pakistani troops help americans in somalia …what purpose did it surve after all americans lost
    the war in somalia.

    15 i used to go to islamic chat rooms in yahoo and every one knows well that several
    people come there to maline islam.i came across a US soldier during the voice chat.
    he was insulting muslims … i got him in a seperate chat room and asked him for
    what was his religion.he said he was a christian .i told him about a few verses
    in bible..saying jessus said love ur enemies…and another one saying if some 1 slaps u on
    one cheek offer him the other ..he got ashamed …. later on he asked me where i was from and i told him.
    he said O man we are comming to Pakistan soon. i thought it was meant for a joke.he became
    my friend and after a few months i left chatting with him cuz he started telling me about
    incidents in iraq.but his sentence “comming to pakistan” was reminded to me once when their troops
    and helicopters came to pakistan for earth quake relief…and now the every day news are full
    with the threats of american government for sending troops to pakistan .and recently a few months back they passed
    a resultion that american army could perform operations any where in the world with out concerning the relative government.
    Now every day i am reminded of that soldier….why he said that ….u see for ur self in vazeeristan.
    they might be planning to de-nuclreaise pakitan and that a part of their old plan.their think tanks already gave reports
    and metodologies on how to wipe pakistan off the map and process already started via separation
    of east pakistan from west and now bhugtti incident and vazeeristan and so on and so forth.
    God help us all

    by Zone Of Enders on Aug 17, 2007 at 2:35 pm

  178. Dark cloud & zone of enders
    I will try to address u both in the same post.firstly my argument is not in support of the govt.i believe that there should be a judicial inquiry into this incident.i would like answers to the following questions from this inquiry
    1. why cda was sleeping while encroachment by jamia hafza was going on.
    2. why were these encroachers (govt servants) khatteb/naib khatib not punished for this illegal act.
    3. why ghazi rasheed was let of an year ago in an illegal arms case.if he was innocent the other party should be punished.
    4.why there were weapons even 15 licensed or not inside the mosque?
    5.how were our agencies unaware about the buildup to this event.
    6. what was the role of wafaq ul madaris in this.
    7.if there was a deal what were the actual contents n who were the negotiaters.

    Lot of questions surround this saga.the role of our political maulanas is still not defined.
    Now coming to your specific post.u have quoted the Quran( numerous verses) to prove me wrong.but u r missing the point.my questions still remain unanswered.i dare say that we have a religious alliance ruling nwfp.partially ruling balochistan and having a large representation in the national assembly.if any of our representative maulanas would have launched such a campaign it would hv had a semblance of moral and ethical value.my main opposition to ghazi brothers call for an illegal jihad stems from this.other less confrontational n more appropriate ways could have been devised to really enforce the word of Allah.i have still not read any document by both these brothers or any other maulana in Pakistan which really outlines their concept of shariat.mostly as mentioned in your post our shariat revolves around jihad n pardah etc.there are no details about ways n means to govern i.e. no detailed penal code,no explaination of the banking /financial system.none what so ever about a comprehensive shariat representative of all sects.e,g the concept of parda as jamia hafza practices A la maudodi is not agreed to by many other sects.which brand of shariat would be the over riding one .this question remains unanswered.i challenge all maulanas to produce a comprehensive legal document based on Quran n hadis n get it approved from a representative board of scholars from all sects.
    Now coming to ghazi sahib call for jihad I will still call it kharuj as ghazi can by no means be defined as a leader of mass following.he has never contested any elections.if his leadership is to be agreed to in principle then he compares with all military dictators who came to power by might not right. I will refer to you surat infal ayat 60 this ayat defines the preparations for jihad without these preparations no jihad is valid.i also quote the following ayat i.e ayat 61Allah says n I translate “ and if they bend towards peace/accord then u all bend yourself and trust in Allah no doubt that he is all hearing and all knowing
    The govt throughout its 7 days negotiations was pressing towards peace.i also refer to the sunnah of our beloved prophet (p.b.u.h) “ the sulah hudaibia is an eye opener for all of us. The above referred ayats in no way intend to make ppl gather a lot of weapons n start jihad against n Islamic govt.i believe that you are not serving the cause of islam by quoting quran out of context.
    U have alleged that I should conform to the main stream . I dare say that the prophet(p.b.u.h) at the time of jahiliat was not in the main stream but he was speaking the truth.i would be honoured n very lucky if Allah grants me a tiny piece of heaven for following the sunnah.
    12th may incident is under judicial inquiry.the verdict shd come out n the guilty punished but the criminal activities of some one do not justify another criminal activity .
    ur point about banks. It was a comparison in unjustified reactions taking over the childrens library , burning govt offices all in the name of jihad.
    4 witnesses/tauhmat..i disagree about your point regarding the requirement of 4 witnesses.one witness or medico legal exam is enough for zanna bil jabber.for zanna bil raza the requirement of 4 witnesses is because of the gravity of the allegation.just consider if some one abducts your sister takes her to a mosque presents her before the media n alleges that she is involved in immoral activities what izzat would a shareef aurat/family then havethe women even if returned without physical injury would never be able to show her face anywhere.kia kissi bhi aurat ko utha kar apnay pas rakhna kisi bhi maksad k liyay har k as o nakas k liyay jaiz hai???I do not say that auntie shamim or Chinese massage girls were prostitutes bcoz my religion does not allow me to do so…the word auntie is not a shameful word.it is the equivalent of khala/massi.however words can be misused.moreover single camera evidence is not acceptable in any court of law (internet café) however there should be strong checks on internet cafes n isps to block porn sites.
    I have not touched upon hadood bill that is for the federal shariat court n the parliament to decide.my responsibility is to elect good representatives. I hv never supported heera mundee.your allegation is without proof.
    Courts.u called me a hypocrat.n said that I should laugh at even the thought of ghazi approachingthe courts.lets c didnt ghazi brothers n their supporters demand a judicial probe into this incident.why ask a court in which u do not believe of getting justice.why maulana aziz etc are appearing before a court n pleading saying again n again that they trust the courts. What a mockery these brothers are making!!!!!
    Burqa n lal shrine.u amazed me almost 1200 people came out of lal masjid7 to 800 males.only aziz sahib was dressed in a burqa.did he fear for his life? If so why isnt he dead yet? Why didnt the govt shoot him dressed in that burqa.the aim of the govt was to kill him as u alleged he is still alive.his daughter today has been freed.my short term memory tells me that only those khwarig / extremist died who did not surrender.aziz sahibs actions has caused shame on a decent garb i.e the burqa.
    Weapons.. ghazi first claimed he had 15 rifles etc in the mosque.later he said that he had enough weapons n ammunnations to survive till a month.on the first day of the op announcements were made from inside the mosque that suicide bombers are being prepared.all this was telecast all over the media( u may check).do suicide bombers wear rifles n bullets for bombings or is it bombs . I dont believe that the claims from lal mosque were false.now dont say tht all tht is proven against ghazi brothers was tactics by the brothers to mislead kuffar n all the govt or media says is lies..u misread the number of rifles . it was 15 only not 1515 as u mentioned. I believe that the numer of weapons was much more than 15 coz 15 rifles cannot be used in continuation.license or no license..use of weapons against fellow muslims/police authorities is not allowed.
    Chineseu r deliberately misrepresenting. I was referring to Chinese girls abducted by ghazee.i again ask was he in service with America?
    Surrender made by sadia habib etc. if they were not surrendering what were they doing?running for their lives,abandoning so called jihad?????????what hypocricy..if they lacked the will to make a stand why did they they spread so much of fasad in the society.i believe that every student of lal masjid was a mazloom bcoz they were indoctorinated with a false belief about islam.all of them need psychiatric help.i asked her a simple question.chor ki darhi mai tinka hou tou who yehi kehta hai..in my entire post I have not insulted you which you did in you post but ofcourse those who follow islam like u do are allowed to abuse abduct n kill anybody they feel like
    This is especially for zone of endersin Pakistan conditions are not ideal.we have to work towards such a situation through elections n other lawful meansnobody can be allowed to take law in their own hands .in the same Pakistan the chief justice has been restored.islamabad police/motorway police another good examples..15 n rescue1122 have responded adequately to calls made by me in person.some bad things do happen but we should not lose hope ion Pakistan if we are a part of it.

    by nauman on Aug 17, 2007 at 11:57 pm

  179. dark cloud ( yesterday i forgot to mention few things)
    By Dark Cloud on Aug 17, 2007 | Reply
    have i ever adresserd u .i was adressing to miss ayshas comments and for u to
    to intrupt from no where and adressing to my issue was immodest and unethical (i sign a protest to ur behaviour)

    By ayesha on Aug 11, 2007 | Reply
    MR HAQS LAST WORDS

    ( the post to which you are reffering to wasnt even addressed to you.it was addressed to haq and i think u answered to clear your point or as haq did not reply…the same thing i did…ayesha did not reply ur post so i did it)

    By saadia Habib on Aug 13, 2007 | Reply

    Madam Ayesha ur point keh etnay sary namehram kasay akhathay reh rahay ( again ayesha was not talking to sadia habib so why she answered).

    u wrote “Mr nauman u are asking her that why did she surrender ? u are v cold hearted person no one surrendered
    neither was any 1 willing to surrender this term was shoveld down ur throats by government” ..
    By saadia Habib on Aug 13, 2007 | Reply
    “information main nay b akhri din Ume Hassan kay sath he serrender kea tha. ”

    she herself using this term so why blaming me

    u wrote “when ever u call her name again try to call her respected umme hassan.”
    lolz read above sadia herself calling her by name…..and i have never humiliated or abused this lady in my post ever….but you should have also raised your voice when people call the policemen/army as kuffars.

    u wrote……..”try to learn some manners ”

    look who is talking…………several points from your post
    1.ur understanding of Holy quran seems to be null i am affraid so
    2.dont be a hypocrite brother nauman!
    3.Mr Nauman are u running in a high fever ?
    4.u and people like u never use ur heads
    5.so try to be a litrate and modest muslim

    u wrote…”Do u adress to ur mother and sister in the same mannerlike u are adressing to hersister sadia is a mazloom she is a victom”

    i think i was very polite while asking her a question
    n now u look at your post which was addressed to aisha
    1.By dark cloud on Aug 13, 2007 | Reply

    Miss ayesha ..u ask for proofs i think u should wipe ur Face and brush ur teeth before even propagating ur bogus and ill Researched trash.u ask for “islamic logic yet i ask u have u ever Read quran beside the surahs of chapter 30 with translation.

    2. i think its enough food for u to digest for couple of eons .

    now sadia habib post

    1.By saadia Habib on Aug 13, 2007 | Reply
    but problem with people is they dont want to see thre ugly faces..
    2.aur han jis cheez ka pata na ho us kay baray main bluff na kea karo…

    i have never in my post abused/insulted u ever…..

    by nauman on Aug 18, 2007 at 11:46 am

  180. i Think that we should not oppose Ghazi Abdul Rashid (Shaheed), only because we dont belong to his firga or support their views.

    we should analyze the sitution netrally, as we have to die one day and to answer before god.

    This is brutual killing by Government just to get suympathy of U.S.

    ” Yeh Baazi Haaq Ki Baazi Hai
    Yeh Baazi Tum Hi Haroo Gay
    Har Gha Say Ghazi Niklay Ga
    Tum Kitne Ghazi Marooo Gay.”

    by Muhammad Farooq on Aug 18, 2007 at 2:14 pm

  181. ” Yeh Baazi Haaq Ki Baazi Hai
    Yeh Baazi Tum Hi Haroo Gay
    Har Gha Say Ghazi Niklay Ga
    Tum Kitne Ghazi Marooo Gay.”

    Dedicated to:

    Ghazi Abdul Rashid Shaeed

    by Muhammad Farooq on Aug 18, 2007 at 2:19 pm

  182. If someone says anything negative about Islam,Quran,or anything related to Islam and if somebody reacts it means He/She is extremist.Or if somebody practices Islam in a proper way he is an extremist.
    Is this the meaning of ‘Religious Extremist’??

    by Zahid on Aug 20, 2007 at 12:09 am

  183. ” neem hakeem khatra e jan
    neem mullah khatrah e eman”

    khuch mohtissabon ki khulwat mai khuch waiz k ghar jati hai

    what if ghazi sahib was an american agent??????
    who else would abduct chinese???????????
    waisay bhi
    ” ab shehr mai har rind i kharabat wali hai”

    by nauman on Aug 21, 2007 at 4:01 pm

  184. Teeth Maestro
    im sorry…by mistake i submitted my post twice…

    by nauman on Aug 21, 2007 at 4:45 pm

  185. asalamualaikum
    being a muslim & being a pakistani i am very confident to say that hazrat molana abdurashid ghazi is shaheed not halak becouse he was killed only for defending islam & mosques in islamabad i congragulate to shaheed ghazi with his fellows for their great shahadat & i also pray for shahadat by almighty allah for myself.

    by faroqi on Aug 23, 2007 at 2:55 pm

  186. Dark Cloud, You have not answered Nauman’s question: if some one alleges that your sister or mother is involved in immoral activities and take her to a mosque without her will and keep her there without her will, would you be happy about that? That she is being treated nicely and women of masjid are trying to “reprogram” her mind with good teachings and after that she will be sent back to you with respect not humiliation. It would have to be done quietly to avoid media attention.

    I dont appreciate you calling someone filth.

    If in you opinion Government is kafir and unislamic, then what are your next plans? If there are around 97% Muslims with you, how many stand with you to wage Jihad against Government and army?

    I also require some information for my own knowledge. Since you look so knowledgeable, please throw some light on: In Islamic Shariah, what would be the ways n means to govern? Would it be significantly different from democracy. How will a banking /financial system work. And whether all the sects will agree on all the minor details of the system which is in your mind?

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Aug 23, 2007 at 2:58 pm

  187. bhagat singh was a shaheed.say the indians if the word shaheed is to die for one’s cause and has no religious associations then all who die for their causes can be called shaheeds by their supporters.
    islam has nothing to do with it.our job is to analyze all actions in the light of islamic teachings regardless of many crimes/sins committed by the present govt , i can say this with conviction, that the actions of ghaze rasheed , maulana aziz n umme hassan were unislamic,hypocritical,self serving n down right criminal.
    being a practicing muslim i hv to follow quran n sunnah n both do not allow me to support such actions.

    by nauman on Aug 23, 2007 at 3:15 pm

  188. Asalamoalikum

    Brother noman before i say any thing about any thing first thing about sister aysha and u is that u both
    are attacking on shuhadaa aggressivly .ur words are so much mocking and irritaing for many of us .
    u cant call ur selves to be
    good examples cuz u mock and oppose,.. weak and oppressed and conqured by those who sought to escape their deaths at the hands of americans.

    ***********************************************
    ((Nauman))

    my questions still remain unanswered.i dare say that we have a religious alliance ruling nwfp.
    partially ruling balochistan and having a large representation in the national assembly.
    if any of our representative maulanas would have launched such a campaign it would hv had a
    semblance of moral and ethical value….

    ((Dark Cloud))
    who in the heavons name told u that MMA and related parties are the ideal or examplery muslims.
    why did u even quote them as representators of islam by any means.instead they are the pure traitors
    and zalims …the real culprits and full time Musheref supporters..they are among the deaf the dumb and the
    blind.total hypocrates and enemies of islam.they could have washed their sins if they just protested
    in front of the masjid during the operation scilence by creating human chain and could have saved thousands
    innoscent lives.But instead they went to UK to conduct APC to secure their uncertain future for $$$ national treasure hunt.

    ***********************************************
    ((Nauman))
    my main opposition to ghazi brothers call for an illegal jihad stems from this.other less
    confrontational n more appropriate ways could have been devised to really enforce the word
    of Allah .

    (Dark Cloud)
    the jihad of maulana brothers is perfactly legal in the light of fallowing hadeeth by our beloved peophet.
    prophet PBUH said(Jabir Hakim kaa saamm-naa kelima Haq Kehna Jihad Hai)…how could u even
    comprehend it as an illegal jihad.isnt the government doing jihad fee sabil shaitan in vana and vazeeristan…carrying out bloody task for the americans.
    isnt the government jabir to kill innoscent children in the medrisa in bajoor agency ..it was the americans who bombed the places there
    before and still continue to bomb but pakistani government took the blame on them selves even more hideous crime.
    few days bak many newspapers published the news about nato forces clearly violating pakistani boundries and
    bombing pakistani villages killing pakistani innoscent people who is gona pay for that and when?
    …children were awarded with particles of tasbeeh penetrated into their innoscent eyes and faces..
    (Curtsy Maulana Shah Abdul Aziz [MNA] serhed stating facts in hamid meers progarm on GEO).
    2-3 years back news papers were painted all over by the name of Ch shujjat.his storage houses were
    cought up with illegaly stored sugar.Zakheera Andoozi.every one knows that…what kind of action
    was taken by Gr Musheref Government till now againts this hideous crime.More over Ch shujjat is still a
    minister what Good aspect of the government does it show.and to which court will u go for the case .
    imarn khan refferend to a code in the constitution of pakistan and said that if u implement that code in
    pakistan almost more than half of the parlement will become empty because according to that code
    one condition states “the person should be clean of any case especialy murder.Mr Imran Khan recently
    won the case against MQM in canadian court .Canadian court gave her verdit for MQM as a terrorist
    organisation.the question is …cant our own government differentiate between terrorists and non-terrorists.
    12th of may incident was enough proof for MQM to be labeled as a terrorist organisation …more
    over what provoke President Musheref for taking it personaly and banning live coverage while taking
    no action against MQM terrorists.u say arent police and army and government real muslims….for that i
    recommend u to reaad Dr ayeesha Sideeqis book “milatary INC”.i my self got just its 1 or 2 pages from the www and have to read in full
    cuz its banned in pakistan…u have to get it from uk .

    **********************************************

    ((Nauman))
    i have still not read any document by both these brothers or any other maulana in Pakistan
    which really outlines their concept of shariat
    (Dark Cloud)
    Do u live on Earth or Mars.You seem to say that the shariat version of lal masjid doesnt mach with ur
    version of shariyat.what does ur verion say ? …and u layed an alligation on me that i
    was misquoting the holy scripture….i think u are fed up of ur own life ..! i quote ur statement here
    noman=:”I will refer to you surat infal ayat 60 this ayat defines the preparations for jihad without
    these preparations no jihad is valid”

    (Darkcloud):: Now ill quote surah “Al-Anfal(The spoils of war)8:60 “Against them make ready your strength
    to the utmost of your power ,including steeds of war,to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies,
    Of Allah and your enemies,and others besides,whom you may not know ,but whom Allah does know.Whatever
    u spend in the cause of Allah ,shall be repaid to you,and you shall not be treated unjustly.

    tell me brother noman in the battle of bader how many muslims were up against how many idol worshipers.
    313 against 1000 plus.is this ratio by any means comparable.plus the muslims were poorly equiped
    and had few horses as compared to fully equiped idol worshipers of mekkah.so please explain this misquotation of Holy verse
    in the light of battle of bader.
    you cant win war with Max Power of weapons….holy quran and history teach us that power
    of eeman and determination can over come any other power.

    Americans droped atom bomb over hiroshima and nagaskae and whole japanise nation bowed down to them
    but they underestimated muslims …americans used 60000 ton uranium and continuing to use more in iraq
    along with white phosphorus the latest verion of napalm on suni areas of iraq.(offical records and also quoted by Dr shahid masood).
    A few examples to enlighten u…

    1.the result of battle of badder.
    2.Americas defeat in vietnam even using na-palm(Earlier used as white phosporus).
    3.Iraq another vietnam for amrica and allied forces(Historical Remark by Seddam Hussain).
    4.Defeat of russia in afganistan …
    5.Afganistan Genisis Of the last crusade..heavily equiped evil forces of the world
    against poorly equiped taliban.
    these are just few examples of Pheroh defeated at the hands of Moses PBUH again and again.

    ***********************************************
    ((Nauman))
    1.ur understanding of Holy quran seems to be null i am affraid so
    2.dont be a hypocrite brother nauman!
    3.Mr Nauman are u running in a high fever ?
    4.u and people like u never use ur heads
    5.so try to be a litrate and modest muslim

    (Dark Cloud)
    any just and unbiased person who summarizes ur post can easily make out that these
    all five points about u are pure as honey.

    ***********************************************
    ((Nauman Quoted))
    Miss ayesha ..u ask for proofs i think u should wipe ur Face and brush ur teeth
    before even propagating ur bogus and ill Researched trash.u ask for “islamic logic
    yet i ask u have u ever Read quran beside the surahs of chapter 30 with translation.

    (Dark Cloud)
    yes ….and i forgot one thing more …she needs holy water as well to purify her heart and soul..
    just read her mails ….they are full of lies …false alligations and yes … what kind of muslim does she call her
    self after watching a shameful and full of propaganda movie against islam.(even the clips that GEO TV ran about the film are very shameful to watch).

    ***********************************************

    ((By Nauman))

    2. i think its enough food for u to digest for couple of eons .

    (Dark Cloud)
    May be i was right about her but wrong about u cuz u seem to have the stomach of president bush.

    ***********************************************

    By nauman on Aug 6, 2007 ..[i do know that it is a fashion now a days to criticize the
    army but many army men in 65 n 71 gave their lives for a righteous
    cause]
    (Dark Cloud)
    what righteous cause ? during 65 and 71 …was india attacking a country that had shariiah law..?
    their incompetency made east-pakistan lost for ever.
    Gr yahya Khan humiliated pakistan in the eyes of the world.that chronic drinker couldnt controle it in international general essambly and
    lubricated the floor in the centre of general essambly hall.tell me how many generals,
    colonals, captains and majors got their court-martials after their surrender in east pakistan to indian forces.
    they welcomed indian low raking officers on red carpet …indian low ranking officers tore medals and stripes
    off of our army high ranking officers and gave them utter humiliation.we gained nothing in 65 or 70 but lost
    kashmir and east pakistan along with 60 thousand troops surrendered and a major peace of land was occupied by indian forces
    which was returned back to us .

    ***********************************************
    (nauman)

    By saadia Habib on Aug 13, 2007 | Reply
    “information main nay b akhri din Ume Hassan kay sath he serrender kea tha.

    (Dark Cloud)
    she is not familiar with the term “surrender” being used by the government and media negatively because during the first
    2 days of the lal shrine siege… no tv channel used the word surrender and many analyists condemned the way
    troops and scurityforces treated students comming out of masjid.They were treated EXACTLY like guntana-mo bay prisoners.
    Besides…. Maulana sahab made it clear on tv that he will never surrender cuz he and his people
    never committed any crime.the point of surrender comes if he had committed any crime and asking for
    shariiyah law implimentation is not a crime.it is but revision of 14 points in the constitution of pakistan and a just demmand.
    i ask u a question brother noman that which court gave a verdict to Gr Musharaf to take arrmed action against lal masjid people?
    but it is only possible when their is martial law in effect isnt it ?

    ***********************************************

    (nauman)

    ( the post to which you are reffering to wasnt even addressed to you.
    it was addressed to haq and i think u answered to clear your point or as haq did not
    replythe same thing i didayesha did not reply ur post so i did it)

    (Dark Cloud)
    As i interrupted sister aysha ..it was her call to ask me why i did what i did…but who asked u to advocate..
    but beside that …werent u already interrupting brother Haq…and he wrote many many logical points that made ur lieing illogical arrguments meaning less..and to none
    of them u answered properly and to the point….i face many people like u every day in islamic chat rooms …many jews and christians come
    to attack islam and most of them are like u ….cuz when brothers like Haq kill their precious time and give u logical
    arrguments u make fun of their good intentions and good will.

    ************************************************

    (nauman)

    1. why cda was sleeping while encroachment by jamia hafza was going on.
    2. why were these encroachers (govt servants) khatteb/naib khatib not punished for this illegal act.
    3. why ghazi rasheed was let of an year ago in an illegal arms case.if he was innocent the other party should be punished.
    4.why there were weapons even 15 licensed or not inside the mosque?
    5.how were our agencies unaware about the buildup to this event.
    6. what was the role of wafaq ul madaris in this.
    7.if there was a deal what were the actual contents n who were the negotiaters.

    (Dark Cloud)
    points #1 and #2 ….ur short-term memory is continuously making problems for u dear brother no place was illegaly occupied.
    for starters …the place was owned by no body …maulana sab submited an application along with proper ammount to CDA
    to get the place legaly.he fullfilled all requirements.but national book foundation intrrupted later on and demmanded
    that it should be given to them not to maulana sab.but maulana sab wasnt demanding the place for his personal use
    instead he was expanding the place for people of Allah who came there to learn and read the divine revilation.
    u decide ur selves which one was serving the lord better Jamia Hafza (RA) or children library.
    Holy Quran is the best teacher for childern as well as for the grown-ups.Why Did CDA neglect purposefully the first lawful candidate
    and prefered national book foundtion.because they were already on an aggenda to clear islamabad of masjids and madrissas.
    this all started by tony blairs visit to faisal masjid where salatul-asser was delayed and and azan was banned.
    all people who came there to offer salatul-asser were dispersed by security guards.they had to offer their prayer
    out side the masjid in missrable condition.
    about ur point #3 ;first thing suppose i am president of pakistan and i call u (nauman) a drug smuggler and i never let u
    even atleast present ur case …can u ever call that fair justice…? fortunatly i heard his say on this alligation by the government
    and he said that he had a car in his possession and a government employee barrowed car from him and tricked him by putting weapons in it .
    before u laugh take a look at ur trusty government and its actions against Chaudary Iftekhar.also review the verdict of the court
    given against Law minsiter wasee zafer with 1 lack rupee fine was charged against and was given orders to uninstall
    spying devices in in the houses of the respected judges ..u know the rest dont u .
    For point #4:
    Surah Al Baqarah 2-191 and slay them when ever u catch them ,and turn them out from where they have turned u out ;
    For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter;But fight them not At the sacred masjid,unless they (first)
    Fight u there ;But if they fight u ,slay them (at masjid).Such is the reward Of those who suppress faith.

    the surah clearly states that u can keep arms and ammunition in a masjid for self defence .
    besides people can keep arms for self defence where ever they want …and if they live in a madrissa and masjid
    where they are responocible for protection of thousands of lives they have to keep arms in case of theft
    robery/looting and terrorisim by any group.also government employees like ejazul-haq gave them licensed weapons to protect them selves.
    there are 100s of goldsmith and electrnic appliances shops on murree road and they all have thousands of gurads
    with ak 47s and pump actions …if they are allowed to guard non living things with their lives
    why cant we keep weapons in a masjid or medrissa where there are thousands of lives requiring protection.
    besides there is a verse in holy quran that says “during war 1 part should stand at guard while the other offer their prayer ..and when they
    have offered their prayer let the parties change places “…lal masjid and jamia hafza were no less than a battle ground for Maulana and his people.
    maulana did no drive all those apcs ,cannons and trucks surrounding the lal masjid …who were the aggressors then ..
    Point # 5:This can never be possible……as tvs stated ISI head-quarter wasnt far from lal masjid.they were perfactly aware.
    Point # 6:Their role was to make it realy easy cheesy for government to take armed action.cuz wafaqul madaris did nothing but rode
    in their highly expensive cars here and there.they were no different from MMA. The most effective thing they could have done that could have
    saved thousands of civilian and few army lives is to conduct a protest in front of lal masjid froming a human chain (like dheerna).
    Point # 7:Maulana Rasheed shaheed made it clear in an interview conducted by khursheed ali khan of ONE tv channel that government made an
    offer to Maulana Aziz Ghazee that they will clear all those cases alleged on him and his people …maulana replied that he refused
    the offer and said put my personal issues aside …and first talk about nifazee shariiyah….” (curtsy One TV Khursheed ali khan)
    now one can easliy point it out that a guilty person will most certainly opt for the offer by government but maulana didnt do that..
    cuz he new that all false alligations can be dealt with later and they should press on the real issue.O My Lord i Pray to u to give
    these people the ability to conceive and comprehend the truth.

    *************************************************
    ((nauman))

    A la maudodi is not agreed to by many other sects.which brand of shariat would be the
    over riding one .this question remains unanswered.i challenge all maulanas to produce a
    comprehensive legal document based on Quran n hadis n get it approved from a representative
    board of scholars from all sects.

    (Dark Cloud)
    Surah Al-Imran(The Family Of Imran) 3:64 “Say: “O People of the book!come to common terms as between us and you:
    that we worship non but Allah;That we associate no partners with him;that we erect not,from among ourselves,
    Lords and patrons Other than Allah.”if they turn back,say you:Bear Witness that we (at least) are muslims
    (bowing to Allahs will).”
    the word “people of the book”refers to christians , jews and muslims as well ….as all muslims
    received divine revilation from lord almighty GOD so by all means they as well are also people of the book.
    many among muslims all over the world are hypocrates and when message of holy quran comes to them they
    knowingly refuse it e.g banning of dealing in ribbah commanded by holy quran but many muslim governments deal with ribah etc.
    so the last part of ayah tells us that muslims can give shahadah infront of hypocrate muslims that real muslims are those
    who submit their will to ALLAH.
    having said that if u find a point in maulana maudoodis research which is common in other sects and does not produce conflict with
    Quran and sunnah …..u can easily accept on the other hand if u find a point which is against quran and sunnah u can easily throw it away.
    its realy that simple.If u think its not then think what ever u want to but islam will over come all religions .its destined to because its the ayah of holy quran.

    ************************************************
    (Nauman)
    I will refer to you surat infal ayat 60 this ayat defines the preparations for jihad without
    these preparations no jihad is valid

    The above referred ayats in no way intend to make ppl gather a lot of weapons n start jihad
    against n Islamic govt

    (Dark Cloud)
    Surah Al Baqarah

    2-191 and slay them when ever u catch them ,and turn them out from where they have turned u out ;
    For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter;But fight them not At the sacred masjid,unless they (first)
    Fight u there ;But if they fight u ,slay them (at masjid).Such is the reward Of those who suppress faith.

    111:::if the government is so islamic then why doesnt it ban ribah (intrust) totaly.
    Holy Quran”Allah and His Rasool rage war against the one who deals in ribah (give and take of intrust)”
    222:::why doesnt islamic government of pakistan shut down heera mandee and other places like that?
    333:::why doesnt islamic government of pakistan close down ties with british government for giving Salman rushdie the sir name.
    etc
    first digest this ok brother noman
    ************************************************
    (nauman)

    12th may incident is under judicial inquiry.the verdict shd come out n the guilty
    punished but the criminal activities of some one do not justify another criminal activity

    (Dark Cloud)
    why didnt Gr musharaf run a judicial inquiry over lal masjid 6 moths before….i give u my word that
    12th may culprits will never be punished cuz they are right hand of the government i.e MQM
    and they are aided by international oragnisations and have a strong hold in karachi.
    a bloody siege by army could remove such filth but that will never happen in a million years.
    ur last statement has made a curse on u from Allah…because u marked shuhada as criminals.
    Shuhada of lal masjid told us how the incident of kurbala happend and how the shuhada of kurbala
    were butchered and martyrd.the way lal masjid was surrounded and the water supply was cut off ..
    while government knew there were women and children and feebles inside the masjid.But they did not feal
    Pitty on them.U Exaggerated Mr Haqs statement about presidents mother.what he wanted to say is that
    some people learn their lesson when Allah subhanwatal puts their own family or them selves to trail.
    pheroh never understood the massage from Moses PBUH delivered by Allah subhana watalah ..he neglected it
    deliberately even saw the miracle of spliting of sea in half but his mind was foged with pride and greed
    and he met his doom in the sea …

    ************************************************
    (by nauman)

    just consider if some one abducts your sister takes her to a mosque presents her before the
    media n alleges that she is involved in immoral activities what izzat would a shareef
    aurat/family then havethe women even if returned without physical injury would never be able
    to show her face anywhere.kia kissi bhi aurat ko utha kar apnay pas rakhna kisi bhi maksad
    k liyay har k as o nakas k liyay jaiz hai???

    (BY Dark Cloud)
    brother noman dont be so stupid… Did maulana take all women living in nearby houses in to the masjid .
    dont be so illogical…if they take ur sister and ur sister is clean u should not worry
    because they arent taking them to a governments torture cell but taking them to a Holy Shrine.
    A holy place of worship.U are narrow minded as well as non-tollerant ..thats why u cant judge people
    like maulana rasheed sahib . while Maulana Considering the facts about antee shameem as prostitute why
    would maulana esscort a filth to a holy place…this thought never crossed ur mind now did it…
    more over he treated her nicely and women of masjid tried their best to reprogram her mind with good
    teachings and right way of islam and then they sent her back with respect not humiliation but media blew it out of proportion
    and pressed the issue so har that made it look worse..ill give u the example of junaid jumshaid…he was taken to masjid to great alims
    and he listened to their good things and he got himself back on track but what was he before …
    considering this fact can cry here as well that people insulted the singer by taking him to masjid .
    …yet i ask u again how many brozes she had by stick blows of jamia hafza women
    yet they treated her kindly ….because jamia hafza women knew that miltary action is not an option
    if u sought to teach some one everlasting manners unless some ones heart and soul is in search of truth …
    not like u runnin a one man show.

    ************************************************
    (nauman)

    I do not say that auntie shamim or Chinese massage girls were prostitutes bcoz my religion
    does not allow me to do so…the word auntie is not a shameful word.it is the equivalent
    of khala/massi.however words can be misused

    (Dark Cloud)
    Brother Noman why are u pretending to be so dumb …tell me how many times in a day and every day does GEO call women antee ..
    did they call nilofur bukhtiyar as antee …how many times did they reffer to baa-nazeer-bhutoo
    as antee …the closest word they use is baigum but even they never used it for her.
    u are just fixated to defent only one prostitue …theer are many banglos in islamabad now
    that run this buisness especially in few sectors theer are bars out in the open …wine is
    served openly.a few months back there was a issue in the newspapers … our government
    cought a container of wine and intoxicants it reffered to all muslim embassys.government
    only demmanded that owners of the container just give a written proof that it belonged to them and
    they will give it to them but no one complied.in the end they gave it with out any requirments
    to muslim embassys …thanks to ur secular state of pakistan.

    by Dark Cloud on Aug 24, 2007 at 7:35 am

  189. ************************************************
    (nauman)

    only aziz sahib was dressed in a burqa.did he fear for his life? If so why isnt he dead yet?
    Why didnt the govt shoot him dressed in that burqa.the aim of the govt was to kill him as
    u alleged he is still alive.

    (Dark Cloud)
    i never knew u wanted him dead so much.he never feared his life nor he ran away.
    Maulana Shah Abdul Aziz MNA told in hamid mirs program infront of eejaz-ul-haq that
    ” a well reputed personality gave him a call and told him to wear bhurqa …and come out along with other
    women in disguise so that they could easily take him away for nigociations with out any one being noticed .”
    (Curtsy GEO tv Hamid Mir programm).not even 1ce ijazul haq objected to him…that means he knew that personality as well.
    in short maulana abdul aziz was tricked.dont just get fixated to burqa many of our agents go to other
    countries for spying disguised as christians and hindus and its justified.

    ************************************************
    (nauman)

    .my short term memory tells me that only those khwarig / extremist died who did not surrender.
    aziz sahibs actions has caused shame on a decent garb i.e the burqa

    (Dark Cloud)
    if that is the case then why wasnt it respected by ptv crew and the generals who conducted Maulana aziz sabis
    inteview by forcing him to purposefuly wear burqa through out the interview..and why did they put a shiait there
    to ask questions to him with huge aggression.suppose if he commited a mistake that doesnt mean u could bombard the
    whole madrissa along with red shrine.

    ************************************************
    (nauman)

    Weapons.. ghazi first claimed he had 15 rifles etc in the mosque.later he said that he had
    enough weapons n ammunnations to survive till a month.on the first day of the op announcements
    were made from inside the mosque that suicide bombers are being prepared.all this was telecast
    all over the media( u may check).do suicide bombers wear rifles n bullets for bombings or is it
    bombs . I dont believe that the claims from lal mosque were false.now dont say tht all tht
    is proven against ghazi brothers was tactics by the brothers to mislead kuffar n all the govt
    or media says is lies

    (Dark Cloud)
    i almost agree with the first line but after that u started adding to it…i watched
    and listened to his statements about weapons he clearly said aboud some weapons and enough food but less water.
    cuz water was cuttoff.the media clearly made it cryatal clear and questioned the government people
    that where are the suicide bombers belts cuz there werent any suicide bombings during operation
    scilence.also where were those bunkers and underground holes and tunnels cuz both national and international media never found them.

    *************************************************
    (nauman)

    u misread the number of rifles . it was 15 only not 1515 as u mentioned. I believe that the
    numer of weapons was much more than 15 coz 15 rifles cannot be used in continuation

    (Dark Cloud) recheck ur post u ur self quoted 1515 dont blame me for ur foolish mistakes.and
    reguarding 15 rifles can be or cant be used who are u to decide that ..in how many battles have u participated except
    for computer shootin games.if 313 can face 1000+ in battle of badder why cant 15 rifles face em all…u are so messed up to think any thing
    beside having ditators cerilac with extra lieing vitamins +.
    *************************************************
    (nauman)

    license or no license..use of weapons against fellow muslims/police authorities is not
    allowed

    (Dark Cloud)
    then who are these fellow muslims who obduct and kidnap citizens of pakistan and hand them over to CIA and FBI for
    2500 to 3500 US dollors …read the newspapers dated before lal masjid.who allowed
    these fellow muslims to kill innoscent children in medrissas in bajoor and vana vazeeristan areas.
    and who will take revenge for tthese innoscent lives killed by our beloved miltary soldiers.

    *************************************************
    (nauman)

    if they were not surrendering what were they doing?running for their lives,abandoning so
    called jihad?????????

    (Dark Cloud) dont use government terminology cuz it wasnt used by tv channels before durranis press confrence.
    use ur own barin but u have a problem of short term memory …sop no use.i give u a hint
    cuz some times u go brain dead…u use the term surrender when u take the surrenderers weapons
    into ur own custody. A reporter asked Gr waheed arshed that if they surrendered them selves
    where are their weapons? he repplied ..they left them inside the masjid. how convinient .when u hold a
    gun to some bodies head and order him to handsup ….what will he do…?

    *************************************************
    (nauman)

    i believe that every student of lal masjid was a mazloom bcoz they were indoctorinated with
    a false belief about islam

    (Dark Cloud) Nifaze shariayt is a false belief.look for the 14 points in the constitution of pakistan.
    their demmands were just.and u talk about indoctrinated …who was indoctribating and what to president musharef
    when he was called in camp david USA where no muslim leader has ever gone to.

    *************************************************

    ((By noman)) (i have never in my post abused/insulted u ever..)

    Madam Ayesha ur point keh etnay sary namehram kasay akhathay reh rahay
    ( again ayesha was not talking to sadia habib so why she answered).

    ((Dark Cloud))
    i proved u wrong because u dont do self analysis .Read ur points i quoted from
    ur mails u have proven ur self to be an abuser/backstaber/molester/sadist and a big lier.

    ***********************************************
    ((By noman)) (i have never in my post abused/insulted u ever..)
    “Ok now i am realy tired of ur sick tricks Brother Noman.yet u show another aspect
    of ur personality.”

    (Dark Cloud) what made me say that… …your hatred towards the lal masjid people and women of jamia
    Hafza (RA) ur continuous opposition to their just cause is very much irritating..the sticks carried by women was not a big issue
    neither is the burqa worn by maulana because these things can be dealt with later… do u bombard ,fire shells and throw whiskey P
    (white Phosphorus AKA wiskey P term used by americans while they used it in falujah and other parts of iraq in suni areas)
    on people just because they demonstrate with sticks or wear burka…a militart action is not the justification.
    the real issue is that what was the demand made by the brothers….it was simply nifazee shariyat..
    u say what version of sheriyat will u impose ….this is an attack upon the 4 most respected
    imams of majority muslim population of pakistan…all 4 imamas said that if any one finds any of
    our fetwas or things against Holy Quran and sahih hadeeths …throw that fetwa against the wall…
    this is enough proof that there will only be on shariiat according to Quran and sahih hadeeth…

    ((nauman))

    in my entire post I have not insulted you which you did in you post but ofcourse those who
    follow islam like u do are allowed to abuse abduct n kill anybody they feel like

    (Dark Cloud)

    first off tell me who killed who in ur last words……during 6 months of lal shrine senario
    how many were killed or wounded by maulana and his students…ur lies start right here
    2nd
    if u havent insulted me does it give a right to u to insult others if i have said any
    thing to sister aysha she has the right to ask me since u do her advocacy then
    explain ur motive behind these provocative statements..

    000.By nauman to Haq on August 2007..: u r mentally sick n weirdo sick frustrated person like u shd not even be permitted near
    womencoz every body else is uncivilzed , illeterate stupid except you whereas its just the opposite](who gave u the authority to insult
    modest and Honorable people like Haq .Just because brother Haq differs ur point of view with logic and reason doesnt mean that can spit out what ever u want to .”when truth is heard against false hood
    ,false hood Perishes and false hood is destined to Perish” Holy Quran )
    111.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[Ayesha basically haq is just annoying you..he has nothing to
    say](how could u even make a guess about some 1s intentions about others
    u just made up ur assumption based upon ur perceptions and ur perceptions could be highly wrong fallowing
    that u attacked on Haqs good intentions and character)
    222.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[my advice to u is just not respond to his posts](i think she can decide for her self)
    333.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[or maybe he is inciting u so](the words “or may be” clearly show ur assuption for Haq
    and ur assuption could be highly wrong .have u read the ayah of holy Quran”dont back bite or slander” so u opted to eat ur dead brothers meat)
    444.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[Now im telling u his next post wud b comments on this post.
    again he wont justify ghazis actions n his shihadat or cause..](are u a fortune teller also u seem to have fixated ur short term memory
    for not accepting any evidences in favour of Ghazi brothers u are clearly on one-man-agenda)
    555.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[he is mentally sick](shame on you for back biting)
    666.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[Ajj tak iss insan nai jo army walon ko galian nikaltay thay , aunty shami ki prostitution etc par khuch nahi kaha]
    (How shameful for u to write such a sentence.people like HAQ dont browse internet every day for people like antee shameem)
    777.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[I believe ur words kiunkay app nai Allah ka nam liya hai aur agar app ghalat hui tou app roz e qayamat ko sazawar ho gee .
    Allah ka nam to ghazi bhi leta tha lekin uski aur harktain questionable thi](O My Lord I never knew this man could be that much retarded
    if some one rcites Gods name does that mean he/she is truthful and u should believe more over u are insulting ghazee rasheed sahab not only
    by calling his names as if he was inferior to u but also by mocking his loyalty to Allah. you said ur self ” no one knows ons intentions” so how come u know his)
    888.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[issi waja sai i believe u n if ur wrong u will b punished](kis wejah sai zara mujha bhi batana mairaa bhai..if she is punished u will be punised
    along with her for sure according to ur own statement…u are making mockry out of ur self)
    999.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[logic saray inko isi case mai nazar atay hain ghazi k logic ko tou ajj tak yeh explain nahi kar saka
    i told you he is sick:)]( what and whose logic do u understand …i never knew u were such a sadist ur self …u gave a smily in the end for what …u slander and laugh in the end…u
    ur self are realy sick dear brother)
    010.By nauman on Aug 11, 2007 ..[i never said i had first hand knowledge about all this issuenobody has..](u admit ur self that u dont have
    first hand knownledge about the issue then how come u hold Maulana Ghazee at fault…2ndly u are totally wrong to say nother has the true picture of senario
    again i tell u that u dont have (illlme ghaib) and i dare say no one has beside Allah subhana watala)
    011.By NAUMAN on Aug 9, 2007 ..[now by ur lucid explaination on different words n their meanings i hv learnt tht ghazi rasheed can be labelled as MISCREANT , RELIGIOUS EXTREMIST,MINION 2
    FOREIGN POWERS WITH DEVIOUS DESIGNS AND OFCOURSE A CRIMINAL](how many times did u label Mr Musheref and others as criminals if not why molana sab…u are so much biased)
    012.By nauman on Aug 8, 2007 ..[if musharraf is wrong on many issues he is wrong.he is not wrong coz he doesnt hv a
    beard or live in a mosquehe is wrong coz of legal n constitutional issues if proven in COURT OF LAW](if a nonmuslim reads this comment of urs
    first he would laugh at muslims mocking muslims 2nd he will most certainly have bad image about muslims with
    bearded men and masjids ..people live in masjids during ramazan as well …ur sick saditic pleasure might take u out boundries of islam….pehlaaa tooloo phir bolo
    …bawaqoofi aur jahalat mat kero even tariq azeem and ijazul haq several times confessed on tv that u cant dought the neeyas of these brothers cuz they are clean and holy men)
    013.By nauman on Aug 8, 2007 ..[ITS BASICALLY A HAMAM OF SAINTS IN WHICH ALL R NAKED](shame on u for even quoting such a sentence…khud beed ikhlaqi kerta ho … dooserroon ko nasihat khud miyan faseehat)
    014.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[I believe ur words kiunkay app nai Allah ka nam liya hai aur agar app ghalat hui tou app roz e qayamat ko sazawar ho gee](before
    u claim her to be more than a prophet let me remind u of ur short term memory problem and show u a huge contradiction in ur sisters statements because u believe liers
    and never do self analysis)
    **************************
    By ayesha on Aug 11, 2007:::
    i never cared whatever he said
    in one of his mail haq sahib accused nelufar bhaktiar for kissing a non muslim..mind u when
    lady diana came to pakistan she shook hand with many men including maulana type
    ( i mean people with beard).secondly nobody saqw nelofar kissing the man directly.it was
    in newspapers n it was taken from one angle.in my opinion the man was greeting her n helping
    her to come to ground .he was wishing her for her acheivement.if u have ever seen men jumping
    from parachutes they are on ground helped by peoplethe difference is its their custom to greet
    like tht i.e touching cheeks it was nothing more than that.
    i heard her interview on biz plus that how her life n image ruined by ghazi sahibs fatwa.

    (Dark Cloud)(can u believe this non-sense…how can u believe her..first off whether she kissed or not
    but i saw the pictures on geo tv my self she was ambracing forget about muslim …non muslim men
    i ask her and u ..that is it allowed in islam for a muslim woman to even touch body of na-mehram and non muslim
    ((2ndly she was wearing pants …are pants allowed in islam for women …even men cant wear tight pants in islam sys holy quran surah noor 24:30-31 )
    o my god she says “its their custom to greet like thati.e touching cheeks it was nothing more than that”what kind of muslim is she
    and what kind of muslim are u nauman for supporting her even she said that.))
    (((AANNNND especialy in the last line she is openly supporting neelofur and her act does ur version of shariiat allow this ))).
    *******************************
    Hindas blasphime continues

    By ayesha on Aug 11, 2007
    i dont know who gave u this respected name ur name should have been hinda.
    MUJKO TOU YEH NAHI SAMJH ATTI K JAMIA HIZA /LAL MASJID MAI AIK SATH ITNAY NAMEHRAM
    MARD AUR AURAEIN AKATHAY KESAY REH RAHAY THAY????TAB GHAZI SAHIB KI SHARIAT KIDAR CHALI
    GAE THI

    n jasmeen mansoor on tv said that when she went to jamia hifza for interview she was
    compelled to take parda..n the people attitude over there was obnoxious.she is of biz plus

    (Dark Cloud) Shame on u to slander and dought upon shaheed brothers and sisters…
    u missed the doccumantry of ragee umar a respected reporter of al jazeerah on friday”he was allowed into the complex and he visited
    and filmed the women section he went to the library then to the canteen then to small clinic and
    inspected medicine. u can watch the video there was no male alloed in that area except the journalist and his camera man..they
    made it clear to the world that they were not narrow minded “. aljazeera journalist made an astonishing remark
    “when i saw it from out side it was very worring site to see women in such a hasty situation but i am realy surrprised to see how female
    students are working so calmly inside the complex…there is no rushing to be seen every where its a totaly different picture inside”
    u can go to aljazeera site and request the doccumantry video.

    ******************************
    By ayesha on Aug 6, 2007

    khuda kay liyay movie mai there is a dialogue haram ka paisa jaib mai rakh kar halal gosht ki dukan dhondna

    (Dark Cloud) Ur good GEO tv ran the clip of this movie ….there were shameful and immoral immodest
    scenes on that clip…especially a woman runs towards the man and she is holding a bed sheet
    wraped arround her and she was holding it tight with her hand.showing that if she loses it she isnt wearing any clothes underneath.
    u get the picture…how in the hell could u watch these movies. forget an islamic iimage.
    u people are giving a bad name to islam.plus casting of film actors who are sons and daughters of
    prostitues …just how could u give them a chance to perform and tell us how should we feal towards islam.
    a full time propaganda to promote false hood about islam.they and u are doing a favour to danish news paper editor.
    *****************************
    By ayesha on Aug 6, 2007

    shariat cannot be implemented thats clear..pakistani nation is in a habbit of fussing around.
    shariat is not anyones property that he/she likes to implement in accordance with his wishes

    (dark Cloud) At-Tawbah (The Repentance)
    9:33 “It is he who has sent his massanger with guidance and religion of truth,
    to proclaim it over all religions,even though the pagans may detest (it).”

    Then Who the heck are to say that shariiyah cant be implemented.Allah him self promises that
    his deen will become master of all religions and WIKLL over come all.and for ur kind information
    people so called muslims who celebrate their birth days should know that birth day celebration was and is a pagan practice.
    muslims at all costs most certainly can not celebrate an event if its a practice of another religion.its a religious practice of the pagans.

    o yeah she confessed it her self that she and people like her dont want shariiah in paksiatn nor any where..
    if i am wrong then what are u ur self doing to implement the right shariah in the light of Holy Quran and Sahih hadeeth.
    if unfortunatly becomes prime minister of pakistan i shall kill my hopes and dreams for implimentation of shariyah laws
    cuz acording to her my wishes cant come true ever and she isnt gona do any thing about it .so Allah nauuzzz billah
    might be wrong to say that islam will over come all religions in the end according to miss aysha.ill quote u a
    verse of Holy Quran …and at the same time i morn at u that why havent u read it.

    *****************************
    TV channel Buisness PLUS

    i know buisness plus people very well …any unbiased person can easily make it out of their talks
    that they are full time government supporters and have anti islamic minds….mostly closer to be secular.
    especially their program mubashir-dot-com is full time anti islamic propaganda ….the host mubashir misquotes quranic ayas
    and most oftenly he reads half ayas not full …..by commiting such acts he claims him self to be brother of aroon shuri (india).

    **************************
    (Nauman)
    in Pakistan conditions are not ideal.we have to work towards such a situation through elections
    n other lawful meansnobody can be allowed to take law in their own hands

    (dark Cloud) u having said that i ask u it has been more than 60 years and be have been continuously moving towards making it better
    but its still nill while india got its freedom a year later and they are more than 200 years ahead of us ….incidents like baberi masjid and
    gujrat muslim massacre take place there as well and they have population problem as well still they got them selves better than us …not even 1ce miltary
    took over.and there system of putting their priministers and presidents to trial is hell lot better and effetive
    can u say that hindus are better than muslims shame on u to even talk about elections …we all know they never were fair and never will be under these repeating faces.

    **************************
    (Nauman)
    some bad things do happen but we should not lose hope ion Pakistan if we are a part of it.

    (dark Cloud) How Foolish ….u call it just some bad things …east pakistan was just some bad thing happened right…
    yes my dear brother 60 years and counting for hopes…yet innoscent Ghazis are martyrd.

    **************************

    by Dark Cloud on Aug 24, 2007 at 7:39 am

  190. Dark cloud
    walaikumsalam

    On one hand u alleged that im aggressive against the unislamic shaheeds of the lal mosque n yet you use words against me and others supporting my view point such as relating us to jews n Christians , telling us to have a bath in holy water( app Indian movies kam dekha karein, islam mai ganga jamna ka tassawar nahi) ab e zam zam sai baptisma shaid ghazi sahib k maslik mai jaiz hai , as far as my not answering haq sahibs “logical questions please read the post again.its the other way round when ppl run out of answers they run away. if haq talks about murdering n killing a fellow muslim 80 yr old defenseless woman its certainly Islamic as per your doctrinebut my prophet (p.b.u.h) was against killing innocent people especially women and children.
    In your next post u will justify killing of women n children if they r Christian jews hindus or muslims opposed to your point of view.
    U also have avoided and not answered my question.u still have not told me about an authentic manuscript by ghazee brothers telling us the details of shariat laws and their implementation. Moreover I hv still not come across any document giving ghazi brothers the stature of muftis representing all islam or even of all muslim sects in Pakistan.your post belies a very confused mindset.
    1. U wrote((Dark Cloud))
    who in the heavons name told u that MMA and related parties are the ideal or examplery muslims.
    why did u even quote them as representators of islam by any means.instead they are the pure traitors
    and zalims the real culprits and full time Musheref supporters..they are among the deaf the dumb and the
    blind.total hypocrates and enemies of islam.they could have washed their sins if they just protested
    in front of the masjid during the operation scilence by creating human chain and could have saved thousands
    innoscent lives.But instead they went to UK to conduct APC to secure their uncertain future for $$$ national treasure hunt.
    On the other hand u take the word of an mma mna to prove your point as follows children were awarded with particles of tasbeeh penetrated into their innoscent eyes and faces..
    (Curtsy Maulana Shah Abdul Aziz [MNA] serhed stating facts in hamid meers progarm on GEO).

    Either these alims including shah abdul aziz are deaf dumb, hypocrats, zalim and not exemplary muslims as u call them or “ they are actually always stating facts please decide if you defending principles or personalities.
    U reffered to a hadis to which I agree.basically u have stated my point.kalma e haq kehna ain islam hai prophet ( p.b.u.h) also stated the same.where did he state that kalma haq includes abduction,tohmat/slander,killing soldiers of the state,burning public property n spreading fasad in the society.believe me the prophet(p.b.u.h) would have looked down upon such actions.
    I reffered to surat infal ayat 60 and I again maintain that the prophet (p.b.u.h) in ghazwa badar gave to us the tafseer of that ayat.would u disagree that at that moment the 313 muslims and their small resources were infact the maximum they could muster at that time.Allah said n I quote “ aur tiyar rakho apni sari quwatyeh muslims ki sari quwat hi thi.if it had not been the case then muslims would not have gone to war infact throughout the period of muslim dominance muslim rulers went to war with the maximum resources, when muslim forgot the quran they started to decline .
    Ghazi sahib did not have the entire muslim community behind him.thats exactly why I said a more representative call for shariat could have been initiated by elected representatives.
    Auntie shamimI would again stress that we should decide in the light of quran n sunnat.please give me one example from life of holy prophet(p.b.u.h) in which he abducted (nowzubillah) a woman muslim or otherwise n kept her at masjid e nabwi.any one example if proved in the books of saheeh hadith would make it easier for me to understand.islam teaches us to respect women not to slander them.Allah does not like propogation of evil/sins .( burai ko chupanay ka hukm hai na k ishtihar bananay ka)
    I dare say by abducting auntie shamim the Chinese n policemen ghazi sahib perform an act which was against sunnat.as far as geo or any other tv channels use of the word aunties is concerned answer my following question
    1.should we follow quran n sunnat or geo?
    2.if geo propgates against quran n sunnat would it be correct for us to do the same?
    3.shariat requires 4 witnesses in a court of law not on tv.
    4.many channels including geo do not call ghazi brothers as maulana. They also have caught him lying on tv( about the presence of children etc )— decide urself

    when u find a supportive argument from geo or mma u quote them otherwise u are against geo n entire media plus political molvis..who is more confused, running a high fever, me or you?????????????????????????
    These so called jihadis faught americas war in Afghanistan.they fought the same in iraq n iran and they are still doing it in Pakistan n Afghanistan.honestly dont u believe that the greatest beneficiary of nifak bain ul muslameen would be America itself.i ask u to justify suicide bombers killing innocent muslims all over Pakistan and iraq.
    U alleged that I support govt , please read my post more carefully. I do not justify the wrong acts of the govt. collateral damage is not permitted in islam therefore death of innocent ppl at the hands of govt forces if any is condemned. U refer to waziristan/fata area.the govt operation there does raise many doubts about its rationale but being a law abiding citizen I do know tht fata is a bed of lawlessness.a stolen car from mjuree rd will be found in fata.any criminal can run away n find refuge there. When the govt asked the militants to lay down their weapons as per our laws they should have.there is no justification of foreigners living in fata as guests of the locals.i ask u y dont these arab , chechin,uzbic,tajik n afghans go to their own countries n spread their venom there.Pakistan ko ganda kiun kartay hain. Sari umar America sai paisay lai kar muslims ko martay rahay ab bhi tyehi kar rahay hain.maybe they take money from raw n mossad as well
    .65 or 71 wars were imp for Pakistan but u r still confused tht weather u r a pakistani or not.in 65 to u the cause was not riteous because religious bigots like u are n were against Pakistan from 1947. u are traitors living in our country .if u dont like it here please do not destroy it.migrate!!!!!!!!!!!!!moreover 71 was not a military disaster only.it was a national failure and I accuse ppl like u to be responsible, u never considered Bengalis equal citizens of Pakistan.yhis inequality caused Bangladesh.but how did we lose it.isnt it a muslim country with more muslims than us but u consider them lesser muslims as well (maybe).
    Sadia habib. I agree with you wen u say that sadia habib did not know the meaning of the word surrender , exactly my point.she did not anything.therefore how can u hope from me to believe someone who knows nothing and aspires to change society.neem hakeem khatra e jan..similarly your point regarding president is genuine but I dare ask which court gave ghazi permission for his criminal activities????///jamia al azhar?

    1.. why cda was sleeping while encroachment by jamia hafza was going on.
    2. why were these encroachers (govt servants) khatteb/naib khatib not punished for this illegal act.

    Dont lie!!!!!!!!!!1the place on which jamia hifza was being built had been awarded to national book foundation years ago.ahmad faraz the then chairman is still crying hoarse over it for arguments sake even if I agree with your point does this justify further construction just because the land was vacant.was ghazi Rashid above the law?was he permitted to do what he wants when he wants n how he wants it? All who disagree can be conveniently called Christians n jews hahahaha.
    Library has no use as far as you are concerned.i have got the concept of shariat of all ghazi supporters.parhai likhai band , no doctors, no engineers.lets produce khateebs at a massive scale to spell doom for any society by spreading hate n violence .
    If azan was not allowed in faisal mosque it is a crime but what of the jumma prayers not allowed by ghaze supporters in lal masjidwow apki kia hi bat hai!!!!!!!!!

    3.why ghazi rasheed was let of an year ago in an illegal arms case.if he was innocent the other party should be punished.

    Ur answer is pure hypothesis.lets talk facts. After this incident ghazi rasheed wrote an undertaking signed by him n held with the ministry of interior n aukaf, that he would not do such things againthis was guaranteed n signed by ijaz ul haq n the maddrissa board etc.the same has already been shown on tv.as far as the cj/nawaz sharif case is concerned the govt was wrong as proven.what does this has to do with ghazi however this does show that we have an independent judiciary to which gghazi sahib conveniently never go .my point has always been the rule of law for all.

    4.why there were weapons even 15 licensed or not inside the mosque?

    U answered with the following ayat Surah Al Baqarah 2-191 and slay them when ever u catch them ,and turn them out from where they have turned u out ;
    For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter;But fight them not At the sacred masjid,unless they (first)
    Fight u there ;But if they fight u ,slay them (at masjid).Such is the reward Of those who suppress faith.

    I totally agree but as I interpreted this relates to ghazi brothers n the hifzians and the govt maybe acted on this ayat and did the operation to protect islam n the mosque from ppl whose actions were criminal un Islamic n highly questionable..moreover ghazi sahib actions of keeping weapons illegally attacking police abducting females did spread tumult n his actions were indeed oppressive.infact this criminal behaviour was started by ghazi n his supporters by challenging the govt again n again and snatching weapons from police who knows if the operation had not occurred how many innocent muslims would they have killed because they were calling for suicide bombings against muslims .

    Murre rd k jewlers rizk I hilal kamatay hain they observe the law n hire legal security personal.y didnt ghazi sahib takes such help.it would have been entirely legal n less costly as one rifle cost 50,000 approx.a security guards only 5000 per month.but he chose to commit khiyanat in zakat money n purchase weapons and ammunition to protect him from muslims living around him.because his islam was under threat from the actual muslims themselves .ullema i-soo sai Allah bichayay.

    Point # 5:& 6This can never be possibleas tvs stated ISI head-quarter wasnt far from lal masjid.they were perfactly aware.

    We finally are in agreement.this fact merits an inquiry and the sacking of the isi chief with the chief of ib n fia etc. the role of political molvis should also be discussed.

    7.if there was a deal what were the actual contents n who were the negotiaters.

    U reffered to an interview on tv one.i refer u to to what I heard on geo,ary1 and on aljazeera etc.after maulana aziz ran away in a burqa and umme hassan also surrendered the call for shariat wat given up.ghazi sahib said n I quote “ mujhay aur meri walida ko sakoon ki zindgi guzarnay k liyay gaon bhaij dia jayay at tht time this great mujahid had sunk his call for shariat in nala lai n his only demand was for safe passage for him n his companions.for arguments sake even if ur point is correct then y did so maulana aziz give up n run wearing a burqa.similarly umme hassan the great abductress also chose against shariat.wah kia hi jazba hai.

    At the end u again justified the abduction of auntee shamim n said tht ghazi only abducted her y not anybody else. Allah ka shukar hai tht the govt acted otherwise he might have abducted a lot more in the name of islam.i again say please quote an incident in which ther prophet (p.b.u.h) abducted any female for teaching purposes.ghazis brand of islam was against quran n sunnat or atleast his actions were.

    As I already said ullema have not been able to define a comprehensive shariat even the definition of ribba is not all encompassing.lets hear from you about the book of shariat agreed upon by all sects and its application vis a vis routine day to day functioning.may Allah give u light.

    by nauman on Aug 24, 2007 at 2:54 pm

  191. dark cloud
    as far as your second post. i didnt wan t anybody dead a little sense could have avoided this blood shed. as for the imp personality his nut is not publicate maybe it was american embassodar to whom maulana wanted to go for guidance wearing burqa.
    _______________

    the above episode was misused by the govt i agree(burqa) but who provided the fuel????????
    ____________
    the statements made by govt functionaries shd be questioned but they do not justify ghazi sahib’s criminal behaviour.suicide bombing was being propogated by ghazi rite frm the start of the operation.u used the word lal shrine , some have equated it as kaba ki beti i hope ur not amongst shrine worshippers.

    Dark Cloud) recheck ur post u ur self quoted 1515 dont blame me for ur foolish mistakes.and

    4 why were there weapons 1,5,15 or any number inside the mosque.?? cant u c the coma in between n read “any number”….it was an examople not exact figure.
    i havnt participated in any battle but common sense which seems un common in u is an indicator……..
    _____________________-

    in wazeer istan the army is fighting an enemy who hides in fights.suicide bombings is the best attack for them. they take money from cia raw n mossads n target pak army.the americans comitted a crime in bajor the govt by acknowledging it did the same. both shd be taken to task in a court of law.
    _____________________
    no army personal went inside the mosque to make umme hassan or other students to surrender.they came out themselves . to my mind the mosque was under control a small group numbering 70/80 or more with weapons etc to fight.
    ___________________________
    nifaz i shariat is not a false belief but the way in which ghazi sahib went about it was absolutely unislamic.he just wanted to cover his crimes.his demands changed by the month later by the day, n lastly by the minute.he was not even a man of his words.
    ________________________________
    when truth is heard against false hood
    ,false hood Perishes and false hood is destined to Perish Holy Quran .
    i agree truth will stand the tests of time n ppl will answer for their sins in their hereafter.
    as far as the 4 aaimas are concerned i did not insult them at all but my question is tht wwho will decide whom to follow me u or ghazi rasheed or maybe none at all.y do u want to snuff out all tolerance from islam .i for one do not want to live in a fascist unislamic state built in the name of shariat.
    __________________
    if u havent insulted me does it give a right to u to insult others if i have said any
    thing to sister aysha she has the right to ask me since u do her advocacy then
    explain ur motive behind these provocative statements..

    y u interfered in sadia habib matter.i do not advocate anyone but im against ghazi.
    ____________________
    as far as ayesha’s incident is concerned ur rite we may choose to believe none of them as everthing needs to be proven.the same incident happened to my cousin sister .as its not in papers n was not reported therefore i will not stress but it did happen.
    _______________
    bawaqoofi aur jahalat mat kero even tariq azeem and ijazul haq several times confessed on tv that u cant dought the neeyas of these brothers cuz they are clean and holy men)

    kabhi ijaz ul haq acha hai aur kabhi burra.well ur very confused.
    ____________________________
    khuda kai liyay_____________
    app tohmat laganay mai sab sai agay hain. apkay hathon sai kisi aurat ki izat mehfooz nahi coz ur a prevert.just answer me this thing can’t the sons n daughters of prostitutes be good men or women.emaan ali in the film is daughter of abid ali n i think he never married a prostitute.
    ______________________________
    as far as haq being weird n sick that he is. i should include u in the same category……..
    __________________________
    u put a spin on everything.aitikaf is a holy duty n must be performed by all who can.dont take things out of context.-
    __________________________
    to sum up i would just add read the quran n try to understand the essence of our religion.

    by nauman on Aug 24, 2007 at 4:49 pm

  192. By Dark Cloud on Aug 17, 2007 | Reply

    “”"guarding ur 2nd question.first off try to read holy quran and with translation before u die cuz u might get some answers.
    u asked “ghazi rasheed was doing jihad why aziz sahib was running away in a burqa??
    if it was on some govt high ups request I dare ask was it shariat compliant,
    doesnt islam prohibit men from wearing women clothes (an enemy would think exactly like that with out considering the possibilities
    or at least try to continuously advocate against the defender on the other hand a friend will give it some thoughts)
    the answer to ur alligation is that have u read the ayah in Holy quran which says that u can have the meat of a pig ie the unlawful becomes lawful
    when u have to save ur life”"”
    By Dark Cloud on Aug 24, 2007 | Reply

    ************************************************
    (nauman)

    only aziz sahib was dressed in a burqa.did he fear for his life? If so why isnt he dead yet?
    Why didnt the govt shoot him dressed in that burqa.the aim of the govt was to kill him as
    u alleged he is still alive.

    (Dark Cloud)
    i never knew u wanted him dead so much.he never feared his life nor he ran away.
    Maulana Shah Abdul Aziz MNA told in hamid mirs program infront of eejaz-ul-haq that
    a well reputed personality gave him a call and told him to wear bhurqa and come out along with other
    women in disguise so that they could easily take him away for nigociations with out any one being noticed .
    (Curtsy GEO tv Hamid Mir programm).not even 1ce ijazul haq objected to himthat means he knew that personality as well.
    in short maulana abdul aziz was tricked.dont just get fixated to burqa many of our agents go to other
    countries for spying disguised as christians and hindus and its justified.
    1.he himself said he ran becoz he was saving his life n now putting the blame on me that i want him dead.
    2.nobody came inside the mosque to help him in wearing burqa.he could have denied the idea.even if somebody requested it.
    3.when they were demanding for safe passage, court intrervention ,many other things they should have demanded n called that person with whom they wanted to negotiate.
    4.he is not an agent or a spy of pakistan.

    what a pity and shame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    ______________________________________
    (Dark Cloud)
    if that is the case then why wasnt it respected by ptv crew and the generals who conducted Maulana aziz sabis
    inteview by forcing him to purposefuly wear burqa through out the interview..and why did they put a shiait there
    to ask questions to him with huge aggression.suppose if he commited a mistake that doesnt mean u could bombard the
    whole madrissa along with red shrine.

    1.nobody told them to remain inside.they were given enough opportunity n time to surrender like others
    ___________________________________
    if u havent insulted me does it give a right to u to insult others if i have said any
    thing to sister aysha she has the right to ask me since u do her advocacy then
    explain ur motive behind these provocative statements..

    then why were u jumping if i asked a simple question from sadia habin…if she had any problem she could have asked me…secondly i did not object whatever u said to ayesha in the post which u r reffering to…i just gave my own view point to this issue….everyone on this blog do the same…if u were chatting/talking to ayesha or any specific person then u can do it via emails.
    _____________________________
    By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[Ayesha basically haq is just annoying you..he has nothing to
    say](how could u even make a guess about some 1s intentions about others
    u just made up ur assumption based upon ur perceptions and ur perceptions could be highly wrong fallowing
    that u attacked on Haqs good intentions and character)
    By nauman to Haq on August 2007..: u r mentally sick n weirdo sick frustrated person like u shd not even be permitted near
    womencoz every body else is uncivilzed , illeterate stupid except you whereas its just the opposite](who gave u the authority to insult
    modest and Honorable people like Haq)

    lolz…………what u do dark cloud???????????who can imagine an 80 yr old woman death n express it on internet is sick in my opinion…y objected that i wanted abdul aziz to be dead where as i never said so but u defend his words ……….what a hypocracy!!!!!!!! u yourself insult others so u dont hv the right to ask what others write in their post……..u have the write to call anyone prostitute/jew /christian n then u expact tht ur opinion shd be highly appreciated nn for your words which u said to me u have an explaination i.e
    2. i think its enough food for u to digest for couple of eons .

    (Dark Cloud)
    May be i was right about her but wrong about u cuz u seem to have the stomach of president bush.

    ((Nauman Quoted))
    Miss ayesha ..u ask for proofs i think u should wipe ur Face and brush ur teeth
    before even propagating ur bogus and ill Researched trash.u ask for “islamic logic
    yet i ask u have u ever Read quran beside the surahs of chapter 30 with translation.

    (Dark Cloud)
    yes .and i forgot one thing more she needs holy water as well to purify her heart and soul..
    just read her mails .they are full of lies false alligations and yes what kind of muslim does she call her
    self after watching a shameful and full of propaganda movie against islam.(even the clips that GEO TV ran about the film are very shameful to watch).

    ((Nauman))
    1.ur understanding of Holy quran seems to be null i am affraid so
    2.dont be a hypocrite brother nauman!
    3.Mr Nauman are u running in a high fever ?
    4.u and people like u never use ur heads
    5.so try to be a litrate and modest muslim

    (Dark Cloud)
    any just and unbiased person who summarizes ur post can easily make out that these
    all five points about u are pure as honey.

    i have never in my post addressed u as a foolish/retarded but u do n read above…….whatever u have pinpointed in my posts made to haq u shd hv first inspected your own behaviour n language……
    __________________________________
    By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[he is mentally sick](shame on you for back biting)
    i think this blog is readable by everybody n haq has an access to it……
    ________________________________________

    ajj tak baki k molvis tou ghazi k actions ko saheeh nahi mantay . pak mai sirf ghazi hi muslim/molvi nahi hai…..they do not support him……..now u will say they r not exemplary muslims!!!!!!!!!! what a joke………
    u talk about bad politicians/army officers/n other immoral activities in pak ….i can also give u examples of molvis involved in rape n filthy activities but the action of one person does not make islam/molvis bad as a whole…..ur ghazi sahib is also one example indulged in criminal activities but inshallah there are n will be gud maulanas still present in pakistan……because of these ghazi brothers or some other bad molvis i will not label maulanas as bad ppl…………..ghazi sahib k tou kai jhoot tv walon nai pakray hain…..aik so called jihad karnay wala, islam ka almbardar , mosque mai baith kar jhoot bolain to baki logon ko app kia question karain……..( im not defending govt).
    __________________________
    i will again say lets hear from you about the book of shariat agreed upon by all sects and its application vis a vis routine day to day functioning.may Allah give u light.

    by nauman on Aug 25, 2007 at 11:36 am

  193. Nauman

    You have many valid points but refrain from personal comments because one should act with dignity in response to any poor remarks/statements from people at the wrong end even when they are insulting and provocative. Keechur mein pathar painkhnay kaa kia faaida.

    Though, the topic here is about Ghazi Sahib: Halak or Shaheed but just to highlight, i have noted one thing from the statements posted by Ghazi Sahib’s supporters that due to the injustices in our society in the last so many decades, many people have lost hope. Their grievences have led them being played in the hands of many cunning people who use close-to-our-heart subjects like religion, politics or slogans of roti, kupra, makaan in the way they want to. Unluckily, we are so much in the habit of using the eyes and minds of other people to think and follow our self made leaders blindly that we dont bother finding the truth. Ignorance is a greater social evil that being an illetrate.
    One can only hope that good sense should prevail and poeple start understanding what is good and bad for us as a Muslim nation.

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Aug 25, 2007 at 12:19 pm

  194. Guys leave this fight, evey body has to die you and me also, just wait for it, and we all will see our end, and one more thing wat ever v are saying we have to answer for every single word, so i think we should think before speaking, yeh na ho keh kal sari duniya kay samnay jab Rab ul Ezat hamin pukarain tu hamara monh kala ho aur hamray pass koi jawab na ho keh ham nay Rab kay kawaneen ko apnay matlab kay leay change kar lea aur un logon ka sath na dea jo sirf Allah kay leay lartay rahay……. Think… Ghazi Abdul Rashid (Shaeed) nay jo b kea sirf Allah kay leay kea un ka koi zati matlab naheen tha aur Allah sab say behtar jantay hian woh sirf Ham sab ki Rasi lambi kar rhay hain yeh na socho keh woh daikh nahe rahay…….

    by saadia Habib on Aug 25, 2007 at 12:37 pm

  195. aur han aap sub log kon hain kea ap main say koi esa hay jis nay 10 sal sirf Allah ki kitab ko smjanay kay leay lagaey hoon ya nabi ki baton ko samja ho naheen na i m sure keh aap sub logon main say sab kay sab dunya ki education hasil kar kay debatis Allah par kar rahay ho pehlay es kabil tu bano keh Allah ki bat kar sako apnay eman daikho kea tum main nay koi hay jo Allah kay leay kisi say thapar kha lay naheen i m sure koi naheen ho ga woh log tu Allah kay leay goliyan kha gaey aur tum log un kay khilaf bat karo gay tum sab log sirf esi kabil ho keh asi batain kro jin say tum logon kay gunah zada hoon aur Allah kay ghazab ko face karoo zada say zada……. time tu ab b hay Allah say daro aur us kay nam kay leay uth kharay ho na keh Pakistan (just a part of earth) ya Musharaf kay leay.. yeh Sari zameen Allah nay banai hay sari zameen par Allah ka kanoon hona chayay aur sari zamen Musalman ki na koi aik hisa naheen…..think

    by saadia Habib on Aug 25, 2007 at 12:46 pm

  196. dear ordinary pakistani i value your point of view…..as far as personal attacks are concerned i might have said harsh words to haq as he used to avoid the topic but you are right one should refrain from it and im sorry if anything i said offended anybody but with the other gentleman ‘dark cloud” i was normal rather he is offensive……anyways i think there is highly anything debatable…..picture is quite clear but as u said its only visible to those who use their brains not emotions….ghazi’s actions cannot be justified in the light of quran n sunnat neither our govt is totally innocent……as far as operation is concerned yes its true that it could have been avoided but ghazi rasheed if had surrendered would have avoided the bloodshed…… whateer the case is ,political situation, we have to go to courts that is the only option or press conference ……we cannot take the law in our own hands by claiming courts are not functioning effectively……..his death is also not of a shaheed n policemen/soldiers who died are shaheeds as their personal interest/intention was not involved…….
    u say n i quote “One can only hope that good sense should prevail and poeple start understanding what is good and bad for us as a Muslim nation.”

    by nauman on Aug 25, 2007 at 2:10 pm

  197. my net was running slow and the page was uploading when this mail of sadia habib caught my attention.
    By saadia Habib on Aug 1, 2007 | Reply

    “”"dear all, Jamia hafza main army nay fasforas bomb painkay hain jin say iron b pigal jata hay insan tuinsan hay.. and they were not 22 to 2300 they were more than 2800 in side. mari cousins wahan theen woh b parhateen theen un kay mutabiq tu round about 3000 talbat aur talibelam wahan thay jab woh log nikleen wahan say tu aur un logon kaybahad tu koi 50 log aur bahar aey hain not more than this.. ghalib imkan hay 2800-3000 bachay, khawateen aur larkay wahan shaheed huay hain”"”"”"”"”

    now read this post

    By saadia Habib on Aug 13, 2007 | Reply

    Madam Ayesha ur point keh etnay sary namehram kasay akhathay reh rahay thay tu for your kind information main nay b akhri din Ume Hassan kay sath he serrender kea tha.

    the post made on aug 1st said that her cousins were students of jamia hifza .she never in that post mentioned about her…what ever she is telling is according to her cousins who surrendered r,reported it.
    now in the second post she said i also surrendered.
    now what u have to say about this dark cloud??????ayesha was lying or not im not sure but this is a clear indication she(sadia) never in her first post mentioned that she was also a student….i now seriously doubt about her cousins being student of jamia hifza…..in the same way i also feel that its a way to gather sympathies………

    by nauman on Aug 25, 2007 at 7:27 pm

  198. neloofar bakhtiar_______________
    (Dark Cloud)(can u believe this non-sensehow can u believe her..first off whether she kissed or not
    but i saw the pictures on geo tv my self she was ambracing forget about muslim non muslim men
    i ask her and u ..that is it allowed in islam for a muslim woman to even touch body of na-mehram and non muslim
    ((2ndly she was wearing pants are pants allowed in islam for women even men cant wear tight pants in islam sys holy quran surah noor 24:30-31 )
    o my god she says “its their custom to greet like thati.e touching cheeks it was nothing more than thatwhat kind of muslim is she
    and what kind of muslim are u nauman for supporting her even she said that.))
    (((AANNNND especialy in the last line she is openly supporting neelofur and her act does ur version of shariiat allow this ))).
    *******************************
    first of all why dark cloud ur mentioning this to a post addressed to me….coz u will say why im replying to it……….
    fortunately or unfortunately i have the same view point….she did not embrace him intentionally in my opinion ….maybe it was initiated by that trainer…..
    as far as the second part is concerned i.e about pants in which u said men are not allowed to wear pants then my dear ghazi rasheed should have abducted boys/men from islamabad to give them knowledge about pants/dress……men should have been guided first instead of a woman…..now i know ur answer it will ” prostitution is a bigger sin than pants”….

    “”"and what kind of muslim are u nauman for supporting her even she said that.))
    (((AANNNND especialy in the last line she is openly supporting neelofur and her act does ur version of shariiat allow this ))).”"”

    only Allah knows what kind of muslim im…..n app kisi k khilaf fatwa bhi nahi dai saktay takay uski life kharab karain aur usko badnam karain…burai ka ishtihar nahi banana chahye…..

    by nauman on Aug 25, 2007 at 8:08 pm

  199. nauman, sadia is correct. You better find out what kufr is at least. I talked to mufti hamid ullah Jan and according to him your position takes you out of islam.

    by osman on Aug 25, 2007 at 9:52 pm

  200. Dear Osman

    Which position of Nauman takes him out of Kufr. Since a mufti Sahib has taken a decision about this, therefore i am also interested in knowing about that. Declaring someone as a Kaafir is a sensitive issue and we should exercise precaution on that.

    As far as Sadia’s statement is concerned, it definitely creates some doubt because in her second post she mentioned that she had surrendered on the last day but in her earlier post she mentioned about her cousins and not a single word about her being there. I dont say that she is lying but it creates some doubt and Haq who has a talent and he is trained to analyze people and situations, should throw some light on this.

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Aug 26, 2007 at 10:42 am

  201. My opinion on the issue of Nilofer Bakhtiar is that she should have carried herself with more dignity and should not have done any such act even if it was to maintain any customary etiquette. Hugging, kissing or embracing a non-mehrum is not allowed in Islam. But the way this matter was brought to the attention of media was not appropriate. At first, it was reported that a fatwa has been issued by Shariah Court of Lal Masjid and then afterwards, Ghazi brothers said no decree against Nilofer Bakhtiar had been issued. But this fatwa matter brought a lot of publicity, which has definitely damaged the personal life of Nilofer Bakhtiar. Buraaee kee tush-heeer hueee aur jin logo ko iss ka nahee pata tha, oon-hon ne bhee isss tasweer ko dekha.

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Aug 26, 2007 at 2:33 pm

  202. usman
    muftis now a days dont have anything constructive to do.if he or somebody declares me a kafir may Allah the one n only and his prophet muhammad (p.b.u.h) be my witnesses on the day of judgement n throw all these mufsadeen,munafaqeen,slanderers, liars and fasiqs into the flames of the deepest corner of hell….
    mny renowned scholars agree that ghazi sahib ka tareeqa ghalat tha aur neyat thek. my position is very clear” neyaton ka haal sirf Allah janta hai” but ghalat tareeqay par they should be punished for all the crimes listed below:-

    following acts for “a struggle to break the country free of shackles of a lawbreaker or “for the implementation of Shariah laws:
    Illegal encroachment on a government land,
    Illegal occupation of a childrens library,
    Kidnapping and illegal confinement of women,
    attack on businesses and forcing them to shut down,
    Kidnapping of policemen,
    Setting up parallel courts within a state against the laws of that state,
    Kidnapping and illegal confinement of foreigners,
    Snatching arms and equipments from security personnel,
    Firing and killing security personnel,
    damaging and burning, public and private property,
    Keeping arms and ammunition in a mosque for no apparent reason,
    not laying arms on the request of authorities and firing at security personnel during the leniency period of 5 full days,
    keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endangering their lives (also many of them got killed during the operation).
    If so many people have died and everything is so obvious with so many indications, then why is anyone not going to court? Secondly, when it was repeatedly announced for continuously five days that people inside should come out, and they will not be harmed, then what is the justification of anyone still hiding inside OR they were being kept there against their own will.
    ( as pointed by ordinary pakistani n i agree)

    by nauman on Aug 26, 2007 at 2:35 pm

  203. **************************************************************
    By nauman on Aug 24, 2007

    nobody told them to remain inside.they were given enough opportunity n time to surrender
    like others

    (Dark cloud)
    dear brother noman at least u should try …just a few times to speak the truth u will come to
    know that it feals realy good…but u feal good lieing….(i am glad to see u happy in any case)
    Allah told them to remain inside cuz they masjid is house of god and who ever takes refuge in house of god
    acquires peace..there were ther before even u and me and they have a right to be there cuz of serving house of
    god and his people,,,..the people who came out never surrendered ..they came out cuz of their relatives out side..
    the love of relatives daughter father,…mother son…uncle son/…brother sister …over came them..
    and allah allowed them to leave in holy quran…they never wanted to leave..a man came to the prophet PBUH and asked
    “i wan to do jihad prophet said do u have mother he repplied yes peophet said go serve ur mother “…many mothers and fathers
    were crying out for their children thats why Maulana allowed them to go after identifying their parents and relatives..
    until his last breath maulana refused to surrender cuz he wasnt a criminal nor his students were..

    **************************************************************
    By nauman on Aug 24, 2007

    u have the write to call anyone prostitute/jew /christian

    (Dark cloud) when some one proclaims to be a muslim and does things like jews
    and christians what do u call that muslism….u call him …u behave like a jew or a christian.

    Prophet PBUH said”the difference between Islam and kufer is neglecting the prayers ” what does that mean
    it means that if u even leave prayers and dont offer them u will look like a kafir kuz they also
    dont offer prayers and go astry.similarly all pakistani banks deal in ribbah and jews gave this ideology to
    the whole world …what do u call a muslims who deals in ribbah..Prophet PBUH said”woe to him who deals in ribbah
    woe to him who takes it woe to him who gives it woe to him who records it ” that means if u record ribah transaction in the bank
    Allah and his rasool curse on you …what do u call a muslim who deals in jewish buisness i.e ribah..no decieving people and lieing is also
    a jewish tactic ….ur research is totally ill and one can clearly see ur hatred towards ghazee brothers and LaL shrine women and children.
    even for sake of arrgument i accept ur point that Ghazee sahab commit a crime that doesnt mean that Allah cant forgive his crime..
    the crime Allah will never forgive is Shirk..and many people in pakistan especially the government commits shirk every day bowing
    down to USA and fullfilling their unjust duties..besides Ghazee sahibs crimes were alleged by government ….and the same government
    allged Chudery Iftikhar to be wrong yet they failed again and again …did u check in to the matter of Ghazee brothers ur self.
    have u been there to see which doccument was right and wich was wrong.Government people can bring what everthey want on media.how come u comprehend the facts provided by
    the government ….supporters of lieing government are also big liers..in the eyes of currupt government good people
    are crimianals ….as they say “one mans enemy is another mans freedom-fighter” i ask u again and again and again
    that did u make investigation in to the matter before giving ur verdict against ghazee brothers …how many government people
    did u interview and how many lal masjid people did u interview…i gave u sufficient examples that media
    can be easily manipulated.so what ever u take from media u have to take it very carefuly why i quoted GEO interviews is that any unbiased
    person can comprehend it that Ghazee brothers were just … as u never investigated the facts so u have
    not even 0.001$ solid ground to support ur arrguments cuz u have taken all ur data from government spokesmen.
    Army committed atrocities before and Army will continue to intervene further unless an external force act upon them that is from ALLAH.
    **************************************************************
    ************************************************************

    by Dark Cloud on Aug 27, 2007 at 1:05 am

  204. Napaak Fauj keh SSG Anti-Terrorist Unit keh Bahadur Jawanouwn ko George W Bush kee taraf seh Shahadat Mubarak.

    Baqee “Halaak shudgaan” seh izhar-e-taziat.

    Courtesy: GeoTv

    by Asad on Aug 27, 2007 at 4:26 am

  205. I tend to agree with DictatorshipWatch:
    It has been confirmed that US is renting Pak army at $100 million. So, what is the Pakistani military defending for? The US occupation of Afghanistan. Who are they dying for? The warlords in the United States of America. So, are they dying as Muslims???????????? There is no Jihad. Pakistan has not been attacked. Are Pakistan’s mercenary soldiers dying for Allah? Are they shaheed?

    by nota on Aug 27, 2007 at 10:28 am

  206. Dark cloud
    Asalam o Alaikum,
    Look who is talking???????????????????????? Now we have to be branded muslims only if we support ghazi sahib,simple, by your standard aside from ghazi sahib and his supporters are now kuffar..sadia habib lies and “haq sahibs illogical deviousness gave your heart a lot of happiness but it is very difficult to argue/convince someone who does not believe in Quran but believes in a molvi.u said that lal mosque n each mosque is a house of God what a hinduistic concept!!!!!!!! Allah tou sari kaunat ka rab hai who kadir e mutliq hai,he is the greatest and cannot be confined to 4 walls. Your concept of giving a mosque the status of a shrine smacks of hinduistic belief of idol worship.please refrain from such “biddat.such concepts are unislamic.y shd only lal mosque be the sanctuary of islam.islam should be practiced the worldover.jihad is the way of Allah n his prophet([p.b.u.h) .the prophets greatest sunna was tableegh.he only spent 63 days in a state of war/jihad.out of 23 yrs of prophethood rest was all tableegh.
    But for you and ppl like you tableegh is difficult.killing ppl n commiting crimes is easy.
    Your argument n hadis u quoted is contradictory.u said that all those in lal masjid came out because their loved ones prevailed over them.my questions to you are
    1. was maulana aziz called ,umme hassan n their kids called out by their loved ones?
    2. at this moment more than 80 parents are searching for their kids ,a similar number through out the operation wanted their kids out but by your argument they defied the prophets hadith n died for a criminal cause.why?
    3. all those who died inside were they with the permission of their parents?
    4. i wan to do jihad prophet said do u have mother he repplied yes peophet said go serve ur mother “did ghazi brothers ask all their followers before defying the govt tht weather they have obtained permission from their families?
    5. u urself have pointed out a ghair sharaee act of ghazee brothers they contradicted a saheeh hadith?????/
    6. u say“Allah told them to remain inside cuz they masjid is house of god and who ever takes refuge in house of god ..are u by any means suggesting that ghaze was now getting wahi????????
    your comments about shirk n kuffar are “laughable.if I believe you then by your definition ghazi sahib himself was a kafir( its not my opinion) coz, ghazi sahib faught in afghan jihad,funded solely through American money, how funny!!!!!!!!!! You yourself are branding ghazi as kafir.similarly ghazi sahib was using foreign weapons.some may have been manufactured by jews or Americans,u yourself are using the internet,now internet is used for pornography,banking n other illdeeds as u say.if all the bankers are kuffar then by ur definition ur also a kafir.please be logical!!!!!!!!!
    I have already in my previous post highlighted that somebody from the ullema should atleast comeup with an alternate banking system but that is difficult because it would require efforts, research n a lot of time n brains.its easier to call someone a kafir,no effort takes one second and indicates that the person calling you a kafir has absolutely no brains.
    You try to divert attention/focus by alleging that im a govt supporter.i stress again n again that im not for the govt.i have already in previous posts highlighted tht the govt handling of the situation was less than ideal but if the govt is wrong that does not mean that every thief or robber is correct.by your definition now we should sent the army to iraq as usa wants because the govt refused usa by an act of parliament but as u say they are wrong every time they are wrong in this case also. The govt shd also shut down the nuclear programme because usa wants it but it isnt doing soI believe u wud like it shut down too.
    Dark cloud u need a hundred watt bulb to light the darkness in and around your brain..you allege tht I have not conducted independent research hahaha.im a person who is calling a spade a spade I say that the misdeeds of the govt should be taken to court n similarly the misdeeds of ghazi brothers shd also be taken in courtthis is being neutral but you accept all the propaganda from lal mosque supporters and anti govt sourcesyour research may be is simlar to sadia habibs
    I have already asked you to defend ghazis acts in the light of quran n sunnah but u always try to confuse the issue.in my studies the prophet(p.b.u.h) never abducted a woman,never constructed a madrissa illegally,never killed a fellow muslim,never set fire to abu jahals house inspite of his repeated mazalims, your ghazi sahib has done all of the above n more.wow thats a true follower of the prophet(p.b.u.h).
    I ask you why did ghazis so called jihad start when jamia hifza was put on notice???kia iss sai pehlay Pakistan mai tamam govt sharee thi ? moreover grade 16 ka naib khateeb tankhwa dar mulazim meaning part of a ghair sharee govt ..pls answer n provide records of ghazi sahibs not taking pay from a ghair sharaee govt that too from a bank which deals in ribba transactions.
    You are a brave person because your position is based on lies and u know it but even than u r defending it.
    U alleged that I hate those from the lal mosquebhai my religion (islam) does not allow hatredI pity them for being mislead and illserved,I also do not hate you even when u call me a kafir but I stand by my dua that all those who call me n others kafir should be punished in the hereafter.however u seem to hate the army.i ask you are those in the army aliens,armed forces have a strength of almost 1 million(combined) including police.the rank structure starts from a sepoy to a general/ig etcu hate them so much that u keep on calling 10 lac ppl for doing their duty kuffar.achay burray log tou har jaga hotay hain.in forces mai bhi burray logon ki tadad utni hi hai jitni in compl;ete society.but your hate n political vision has shut your brain to truth.

    ASAD

    Shame on you for abusing an institution as a whole.many of these soldiers serve in places where your mother would never allow you to go.a general may be ruling the country illegally but the soldiers who are at siachen in the dessert regions n other borders do not deserve such abuse.i dare you to spend one day in the service of this nation where your life is at risk but drawing room mai baith k ac k samnay tv dekhtay huway ap jaisay mohib e watan(patriotic) pak fauj k in sab jawans k liyey achi dua tou nahi kar saktay magar fashion mai in rehnay k liyay unko gali zaror nikalain gai.shame on you again!!!!!!!

    NOTA

    App ki tou kia hi bat hai.u agree with a foreign website which wants differences between the people of Pakistan n purposefully give such comments.in Afghanistan there is no pak soldier fighting with the Americans.waziristan tou hamara apna problem hai.apki car kabhi chori hui ho tou udar sai hi millay gee.baray mai smuggled items fata k farishtay hi latay hainheroine cultivators also live there.they dont pay a single tax nor even electricity bills yet they are really innocentif they are told to give up their weapons then its an attack on their culture.bill mango tou strike and put wapda offices to fire.how innocent these people are

    But as dark cloud says “that Allah would forgive all crimes less shirk therefore all criminals in jails and all those who want to kill /rape/rob/abduct etc should now be happy coz ghazis jihad was actually for them.

    by nauman on Aug 27, 2007 at 4:05 pm

  207. Dark Cloud:

    For you, all the people who do not agree with you are wrong.

    You, on the other hand can easily label others as filth and prostitute without any evidence (as far as I know, in Islam, accusations like the one on Mrs. Shamim and Chinese should be witnessed by four righteous (rasikh-ul-aqeeda) muslims). A neutral person would suggest you that better to follow Shariah laws your self before demanding its implementation in the society.
    You have not answered Naumans question: if some one alleges that your sister or mother is involved in immoral activities and take her to a mosque without her will and keep her there without her will, would you be happy about that? That she is being treated nicely and women of masjid are trying to “reprogram her mind with good teachings and after that she will be sent back to you with respect not humiliation. It would have to be done quietly to avoid media attention.
    ____________________________________
    You said to Miss Ayesha:

    “i think u should wipe ur Face and brush ur teeth before even propagating ur bogus and ill Researched trash.u ask for “islamic logic yet i ask u have u ever Read quran beside the surahs of chapter 30 with translation and if U did how much. yes .and i forgot one thing more she needs holy water as well to purify her heart and soul..

    and on the other hand told Nauman:

    “Do u adress to ur mother and sister in the same mannerlike u are adressing to hersister sadia is a mazloom she is a victom.

    I am sorry to say that this is hypocrisy.

    ____________________________________
    You said:
    [ Dark Cloud>>> i never knew u wanted him dead so much.he never feared his life nor he ran away. Maulana Shah Abdul Aziz MNA told in hamid mirs program infront of eejaz-ul-haq that
    a well reputed personality gave him a call and told him to wear bhurqa and come out along with other women in disguise so that they could easily take him away for nigociations with out any one being noticed .]

    If for a moment, one accepts your statements, then question is Why Maulana Sahib wanted to have any secret negotiations when his supporters were ready to give up their lives. Secret negotiations for Shariat???
    ____________________________________
    You quote Media and MMA members wherever they support your stand:
    [Dark Cloud>>>children were awarded with particles of tasbeeh penetrated into their innoscent eyes and faces..(Curtsy Maulana Shah Abdul Aziz [MNA] serhed stating facts in hamid meers progarm on GEO).],
    [Dark Coud>>>Maulana Shah Abdul Aziz MNA told in hamid mirs program infront of eejaz-ul-haq that a well reputed personality gave him a call and told him to wear bhurqa and come out along with other women in disguise so that they could easily take him away for nigociations with out any one being noticed . (Curtsy GEO tv Hamid Mir programm).],
    [Dark Cloud>>>all international media pictured And named chinese workers and antee shameem as prostitues .wana Check go to bbc cnn web sites],
    [Dark Cloud>>>Also u missed ajj tv interviews with several people who negated the Things u are trying to implyfy the proof is there on media]

    and then on the other hand you say:

    [Dark Cloud>>>who in the heavons name told u that MMA and related parties are the ideal or examplery muslims. why did u even quote them as representators of islam by any means.instead they are the pure traitors and zalims the real culprits and full time Musheref supporters..they are among the deaf the dumb and the blind.total hypocrates and enemies of islam.],
    [Dark Cloud>>>Government people can bring what everthey want on media.how come u comprehend the facts provided by the government],
    [Dark Cloud>>>media was getting all the information from army cuz of curfew so there was no independent source at all and every one was relying on army sources]
    ____________________________________

    You recommend something about which you also dont have the complete knowledge: [Dark Cloud>>>> recommend u to reaad Dr ayeesha Sideeqis book “milatary INC.i my self got just its 1 or 2 pages from the www and have to read in full cuz its banned in pakistanu have to get it from uk .]

    ____________________________________

    Allah says:

    “O you who believe, obey Allaah and obey His Messenger, and the people in authority among you. And if you dispute over anything, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger if you really believe in Allaah and the Last Day, that is best in terms of consequences. (4:59)

    Allah Taala orders us to obey Allah , His Rasul [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] and the Ulul amr (people of law). The Ulul amr are Muslim rulers. In this respect, to obey Muslim rulers is part of faith as that is the order of Allah . In order to be a Muslim, one should say Kalma and also believe in the basic aspects of Deen. For example, Salaat, Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] being the final Prophet of Allah , Zakaat, Hajj, etc.
    If the governments of the Muslim countries do not rule by Shariah law, they are sinful but that does not take them out of the fold of Islam. Their un-Islamic activities could be major sins. However, that does not constitute Kufr. Declaring someone as a Kaafir is a sensitive issue and we should exercise precaution on that.
    Who will decide that who is Kafir and who is not?

    If in you opinion Government is kafir and unislamic, then what are your next plans? If there are majority Pakistani Muslims who support you, how many stand with you to wage Jihad against Government and army?
    I also require some information for my own knowledge. Since you look so knowledgeable, please throw some light on: In Islamic Shariah, what would be the ways n means to govern? Would it be significantly different from democracy. How will a banking /financial system work. And whether all the sects will agree on all the minor details of the system which is in your mind?

    ____________________________________

    [Dark Cloud >>>the people who came out never surrendered ..they came out cuz of their relatives out side..the love of relatives daughter father,mother sonuncle son/brother sister over came them.]

    Allah to judge who is lying but from your statement, it looks like that their love for their relatives was stronger than their will of Jihad.

    ____________________________________

    You should think with open mind without just defending Ghazi Sahibs actions blindly.
    Is there no other learned, righteous mufti and aalim in Pakistan other than Ghazi brothers. If there are, then why are they not doing the same as Ghazi Sahib did.
    Why, at the end, Ghazi Sahib wanted to leave everything, even his demand for islamic system in return for a safe passage. Now dont tell me that this is one side of picture. We heard it live on TV and we heard it from other respectable maulanas and alims who were involved in these negotiations.
    Everyone saw students of Jamia Hafsa with batons and also some with guns, damaging the public and private property. They also put on fire a few government buildings in the process. What kind of Jihad was that?
    ____________________________________

    I have one question for all those who are now crying for Ghazi Sahib and his noble cause: where were all these people before and during the lal masjid incidence. If they support Ghazi Sahibs actions, they should have helped him and given their lives along with Ghazi Sahib. What had happened to them and their beliefs at that time. Why Ghazi Sahibs own brother escaped in burqa. Why didnt he fight along with other people when he was always preaching jihad and shahadat to his students. Is suicide bombing allowed in Islam as threatened by Ghazi. What was they thinking in the last so many years or should i say decades and why didnt they protest earlier against unislamic values in the society. Only when government asked them to remove illegal encroachment from government land, they started acting like this.

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Aug 27, 2007 at 4:19 pm

  208. Teeth Maestro dont you have anyother issues to through a debate.
    I think this is enough.

    by Zahid on Aug 27, 2007 at 8:13 pm

  209. continuing ordinary pakistani arguement i quote an ayat from surat jumma ” aye emaan walo jab namaz ki azan ho jumma k din, tou Allah k zikr ki tarf doro aur khareedofarokht chor dou,ye tumharay liyay behtar hai agar tum jano,phir jab namaz ho chukay tou zameen mai phail jao aur Allah ka fazal talash karo,aur Allah ko boht yaad karo iss umeed par k falah pao aur jab unhon nai koi tijarat ya khail dekha is ki tarf chal diyay, aur tumhay khutbay mai khara chor gayay,tum farmao woh jo Allah k pass hai,khail sai aur tijarat sai behtar hai aur Allah ka rizq sab sai acha(verses9-11)

    the friday lal mosque was open the followers of maulana aziz and ghazi rasheed( including their sisters) did not allow muslims to offer the friday prayers.this is a clear violation of the above mentioned ayats.islam should not be hostage to one or two maulanas.the khateeb brought by the govt was also a muslim.by following him or somebody else from amongst them jumma prayers could have been conducted but these political saviours of islam only wanted their khail tamasha of furthering their political cause…..may Allah have mercy on their souls.

    by nauman on Aug 27, 2007 at 9:22 pm

  210. I am very angry and depressed after reading the following news in today’s The News. And now I firmly believe that Musharraf and army are doing the right thing and they should have a major operation in the tribal areas and destroy all such militants because in my opinion, militant groups who are involved in suicide bombing, kidnapping and such killings are not Muslims but fasadees and should be destroyed with all the power. Let us assume for a moment that the whole army of 1 million and the Government (i dont know when these people talk about Government, they mean only parliamentarians or all the civil servants) are Kafir and such militants are fighting a Holy war, even then such heinous crimes have no justification based on Islamic teachings and as I said earlier that many ignorant people are playing in the hands of these cunning guys who call it a Holy war and use religion or money to carry out such acts with so much commitment.

    [Courtesy: The NEWS

    Video shows boy beheading Pak soldier

    DERA ISMAIL KHAN: Pro-Taliban militants have released a video of an apparently teenage boy beheading one of 16 paramilitary soldiers kidnapped in a restive tribal area bordering Afghanistan.

    The gruesome recording, a copy of which was obtained by AFP, will likely put further pressure on embattled US ally President Pervez Musharraf to crack down on Islamist violence in the Frontier region.

    The 35-minute video entitled “Revenge first shows the 16 soldiers, all of them in uniform, who were taken hostage on August 9 in the South Waziristan tribal agency. Four teenage boys with Kalashnikov assault rifles, daggers and headbands with Jihadi slogans are then shown along with one of the soldiers kneeling in front of them. One boy cuts off the soldiers head, using a knife and holds it up for the camera. The soldiers body was recovered on August 14 from a nearby town.

    The video shows the victim saying just before his death that “security forces should not fight against the Taliban. The military strongly condemned the video, saying it had not seen the recording but was aware of its existence. “It proves that they are terrorists. It is an act contrary to tribal customs and is also a cowardly act to kill an unarmed human being, chief military spokesman Major-General Waheed Arshad said. Negotiations are still under way to free the remaining soldiers as well as a military officer and three other officials who were kidnapped in South Waziristan on Friday.]

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Aug 28, 2007 at 6:35 pm

  211. ofcourse ghazi rasheed was greastest martyer in pakistan history,he was the only one among 160 million people faithful enough to allah to sacrifice his life for cause of islam.
    the people who are opposing him amaze me,either these people are too naive or they have inner hatred for islam,
    ghazi rasheed was not a typical mullah,,,he did his masters in quaide azam university islamabad ,he even did job in uno.he was not an “extremist” and neither he was mad astaghfirullah.
    actually he was very very sharp and wise,when allnation of pakistan was seeing the slaughter of true religious values of islam in pakistan and doing nothing ,at this time ghazi rasheed stood upa nd by giving away his life in allahs way he made all people of pakistan ashamed,ashamed of being so called muslims but doing nothing at all when islamic identity of pakistan is in grave dangera nd when our rulers are trying to make pakistan another turkey where even taking the name of islam is a crime

    by kashif on Sep 2, 2007 at 4:23 am

  212. and those people in this forum who are insulting or defaming ghazi rasheed and laal mosque people,thy rmember one thing,they will be punished badly by allah.they should remember my words,one day in their lives they will know that its the truth,
    allah hates those people who defame his dear persons,and shaheeds are very dear to allah
    .ghazi brothers refreshed the sunnah of imam husain actually by standing against antiislam forces and giving away thir lives

    by kashif on Sep 2, 2007 at 4:30 am

  213. Who is shaheed and who is not, Allah knows the best. But the actions of Ghazi Sahib in his last days have not painted a good picture of Islam in the eyes of people specially non-muslims. How a non-muslim who has seen the whole episode, would be impressed and think of converting to Islam. Islam is a religion of peace and not violence. Our Aalims and Muftis have always been telling that Islam has not spread through sword or by force. Always, people have converted to Islam after getting impressed from its teachings and believing that this is the whole truth and nothing else.

    by Ordinary Pakistani on Sep 2, 2007 at 11:10 am

  214. asalam o alaikum to all
    i tend to agree with ordinary pakistani and would like to add tht for all of us the law provided to us by Allah is supreme.i would again stress upon ghazi sahib’s followers to prove his actions from sunnat and quran.
    in my last post i had put few questions to dark cloud etc all of them are still unanswered
    1. was maulana aziz called ,umme hassan n their kids called out by their loved ones?
    2. at this moment more than 80 parents are searching for their kids ,a similar number through out the operation wanted their kids out but by your argument they defied the prophets hadith n died for a criminal cause.why?
    3. all those who died inside were they with the permission of their parents?
    4. i wan to do jihad prophet said do u have mother he repplied yes peophet said go serve ur mother “did ghazi brothers ask all their followers before defying the govt tht weather they have obtained permission from their families?
    5. u urself have pointed out a ghair sharaee act of ghazee brothers they contradicted a saheeh hadith?????/
    6. u say“Allah told them to remain inside cuz they masjid is house of god and who ever takes refuge in house of god ..are u by any means suggesting that ghaze was now getting wahi????????

    there cannot be any doubt about the illegality of ghazi sahib’s actions as all of them were against the pakistan penal code but i believe tht his actions were immoral and unislamic also.
    emotional slogans, jingoism and religious black mailing cannot and should not be made to over ride quran,sunnah,common sense and logic…

    by nauman on Sep 2, 2007 at 6:46 pm

  215. I have already asked you to defend ghazis acts in the light of quran n sunnah .in my studies the prophet(p.b.u.h) never abducted a woman,never constructed a madrissa illegally,never killed a fellow muslim,never set fire to abu jahals house inspite of his repeated mazalims, your ghazi sahib has done all of the above n more.wow thats a true follower of the prophet(p.b.u.h).
    I ask you why did ghazis so called jihad start when jamia hifza was put on notice???kia iss sai pehlay Pakistan mai tamam govt sharee thi ?

    dark cloud himself pointed out ghazi rasheed not following the sunnat……

    ” i want to do jihad prophet said do u have mother he repplied yes peophet said go serve ur mother “
    did ghazi brothers ask all their followers
    that they hv taken permission from their parents???????????????????????????????????
    please explain all his actions i.e burning public/pvt property,slandering,abduction,killing in the light of quran n sunnat….
    nobody on this blog has been able to explain it yet & im sure none would be able to do coz my Allah who is kadir e mutliq,rehman and raheem ( all praises are for Allah alone) is not with those who commit crimes.

    by nauman on Sep 2, 2007 at 9:37 pm

  216. asalam o Alaikum

    dark cloud since 27th august has not been able to find ahadith, ayats supporting ghazi sahib’s actions…..haq ran away after 11th august…..sadia habib lies are also infront of you…..yet there are many on this blog who are and will be raising their voice to support ghazi sahib actions without any religious knowledge..few of them are kashif and usman…..they n others can be easily blackmailed in the name of religion…..our problem is that we havnt studied Quran and accept everything from ppl like ghazi rasheed who make us a fool in the name of religion …..
    read quran n try to understand the message given in Quran….don’t believe what anybody tells u ,instead do your own independent study and research n find out the truth…..
    dark cloud you have no answers for our ( me n ordinary pakistani) questions, neither u can prove ghazi correct by quoting any hadith so its better for you to accept the truth that ghazi rasheed was a criminal and nothing else….you should thank God that u were not part of his so called jihad hence did not join him n his followers in any criminal activity….( i do not intend to offend you)
    may Allah save us from people like ghazi rasheed n help us in understanding Islam…….

    by nauman on Sep 7, 2007 at 11:40 am

  217. I have read the comments by all. They are all fine. But the point is little worthless now that Mr Ghazi and many others are physically not amongst us. We always do something too late and the whole purpose of saving lives was lost in the case of attacking the House of God= the Lal Masjid. Now we are crying but what will happen. I agree with most comments that the government was aggressor here no doubt and should be labelled as munafiqin. But we can only talk and hope the new generation of Pakistanis will make us proud of being who we are as Pakistani. May Allah help them over come any or all obstacles that they may face. I join with all in praying for those brave Muslims who lost their lives while being attacked from outside. It’s unheard of that in a Muslim country (Pakistan), the government(also Muslim) attacks a House of Allah = Lal Masjid, killing so many people (also Muslims) inside the mosque.

    by Salimdost on Sep 9, 2007 at 10:26 pm

  218. yes i agree that precious lives were lost then again the responsibilty lies on ghazi rasheed for misguiding them…if he had surrendered along with his followers it wud hv avoided this bloodshed n yes govt could have handled it in a little sensible manner but im sure it wont have made any difference as mr ghazi was not supportive for any peaceful negotiations.

    by nauman on Sep 10, 2007 at 1:57 pm

  219. (Its unheard of that in a Muslim country (Pakistan), the government(also Muslim) attacks a House of Allah = Lal Masjid, killing so many people (also Muslims) inside the mosque.)

    1. if somebody is involved in criminal activities in the mosque do u thinking he is giving respect to the mosque.mosque is not a temple and its a place where people pray before Allah.Allah is present everywhere

    2. as pointed out by ordinary pakistani the person who does not follow shariat is demanding an implementaion of shariat..how funny!!!!!!!

    (((join with all in praying for those brave Muslims who lost their lives while being attacked from outside. ))

    we are bound by the holy Quran to pray for all muslims…the label of munafqeen is indicative of bias and a lack of objectivity.we should not judge by emotions but only by facts .

    the lt col who embraced shihadat left behind a widow n two young daughters…all of those security personal left behind families whose greif is as hurting as for the families of those misguided muslims killed in the mosque. i will not use the word "munafiq" as thats for Allah to judge but i can say with conviction that many of those were criminals , some now have escaped under the cover of burqa and are calling themselves heroes……..we shd beware of such fake mullas whose sole purpose is fisad.

    by nauman on Sep 10, 2007 at 7:16 pm

  220. hak k fath he jo ghazi shaheed ho gia ye hemesh zandh raheen gee shaheed kabhe mirty naheen sab ko ghazi k rasty per chalna ho tab ja k hum muslaman ho sakeen gee ok aalah an ko janat meen jagh de aamen

    by saleem on Sep 13, 2007 at 12:45 am

  221. saleem sahib,

    lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    phir uss time app so rahay thay???????/ app bhi unkay naik kam mai unko join kartay idhar narray(slogans) marnay ki kia zarorat hai..

    u said “sab ko ghazi k rasty per chalna ho tab ja k hum muslaman ho sakeen gee ”
    tou bhai phir app kab muslim ho rahay hain???????????????/

    Allah unkay gunnah maaf karay aur unko janat naseeb karay.( unko waqai dua ki zarorat hai takay unhon nai jo zulm kia hai Allah usko maaf kar dai)

    apko bhi mai yehin kahun ga k please agar apkay ilm mai ho tou ghazi sahib k tamam actions i.e, burning public pvt property,slandering,abduction,killing,misguiding young people in name of jihad,illegal encroachment
    etc ko explain karain Quran aur sunnat ki roshni mai…i.e, unhon nai jo yeh tamam naik kam injam diyay hain ….maybe im unaware , meray knowlede mai izafay k liyay prophet(p.b.u.h) ki sunnat sai aisay hi incidents quote karain with referenses………i would be waiting.

    by nauman on Sep 13, 2007 at 11:41 am

  222. ha!!!!!!!!!

    since i started posting on this blog im putting same question i.e supportive hadith n ayat for ghazi’s actions to all those favouring ghazi rasheed .i hvnt so far received any response so far instead, stupid kind of jingoism based on emotions rather than facts are made here…..

    dark cloud n some other ppl on this blog were like what if auntie shamim or chinese girls were abducted…they were taken to mosque for reprogramming etc etc…..

    my question to all those ppl is again ” what if ur sister is abducted in the same way n taken to mosque for guidance without her n ur consent u would be telling ur family/friends that our sister was a bad character lady …they have taken her for guidance .they will treat her nicely there is nothing wrong…….” bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!

    even in the month of ramadan they cannot avoid their gulgapara…..whats so special about praying in lal masjid????????? just to create fuss n nothing else….if one is interested in ibadat he can go to any mosque.lal mosque is not the last n only place for prayers………..

    release of some of the students by the supreme court is/will prove wrong…suicide bomber at ghazi yesterday was linked to lal mosque…….may be he was also doing jihad………

    its just an indication of ignorance n lack of knowledge of Quran……….

    p.s whoever wants to favour ghazi rasheed please do so but at the same time do give us knowlede about “ghazi rasheed actions in the light og quran n sunnat”( give me examples where prophet(p.b.u.h) slandered,abducted,killed muslims, set fire, lied etc)
    coz only then ur post will be valuable if u support it with logic facts n examples from Quran n sunnat

    Allah bless u all n happy ramadan to all of u

    by nauman on Sep 14, 2007 at 9:37 pm

  223. Ghazi brothers are not shaheed.

    by mirza on Sep 23, 2007 at 3:42 pm

  224. no doubt!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by nauman on Sep 25, 2007 at 2:59 am

  225. Mr. Nauman no body will give u any answer maro gay tu pata chal jaey ga par kea hay keh bhut dair ho chuki ho gi….. tab wahan jawab lena tu lag pata jaey ga.

    by saadia Habib on Sep 27, 2007 at 10:39 am

  226. bhut dur nahee hay balkay bhut thora time hay aap ko answer milnay main……worry not wasay he rat ko neend disturb na karo… shabash……bhut saron ko mil chuka hay jawab aap ko b mil jaey ga. yun he soch soch kar parashan kea hona hay na na.. balkay aik kam karo army say pocho woh b ab thora thora jawab day latay hain…

    by saadia Habib on Sep 27, 2007 at 10:42 am

  227. WELL I THINK IT IS A SERIOUS TOPIC AND BLOG SHOULD ALSO CONTAIN SOMETHING , I AM DISAPPOINTED TO SEE THE VAGUE COMMENTS OF SAADIA HABIB ON THE TOPIC , I THINK THIS TYPE OF ROMAN URDU SCRIPT SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO ENTER IN A SERIOUS TOPIC LIKE THE ONE , WE ARE READING.

    by SADAQAT KHAN on Sep 27, 2007 at 11:05 am

  228. yes sadia habib u r very right…. i hv no doubt on illegality n criminal n sinful acts of ghazi rasheed and his supporters…..
    you are a lier ….i have pointed ur biggest lie on the blog so scroll above n read …..”"were u the student of jamia hifza or ur cousins??????????”" atleast u try to find out the truth…i think neither u nor ur cousins were part of that game…u just wanted sympathies thtsy u pretented to be part of this…..
    don’t worry respected sadia habib im not at all worried n sleeping quite well mashallah…..
    yes everybody would be answerable to Allah on day of judgement…i ask forgiveness from Allah in this holy month of ramadan and also ask forgiveness and guidance for misguided muslims like you.
    well friends yet again one another post full of taunt n meaningless gossip…..no hadith or ayat still so far to support the arguement.
    i do not intend to offend anybody of you including who are in disagreement with me on the topic but if somebody is hurt with any of my post i ask for forgiveness!!!!!!!

    by nauman on Sep 27, 2007 at 2:20 pm

  229. He is INSHALLAH shaeed.mayAllah bless him.i have one quition that what abnout army death. they did als only duty.what is with them.

    by Khurram on Sep 29, 2007 at 8:08 pm

  230. haey noman bahi aap ko tu aag he lag gae…. plz zada na sarain……. wasay be aap jasy log sar sar kar mar jatay hain :D

    by saadia Habib on Oct 1, 2007 at 11:59 am

  231. haey Allah jeee. Nauman bahi aap tu sar he gaey.. koi bat naheen sartay rahin does not matter for any body…. lolzzzzzzzzz…….

    by saadia Habib on Oct 1, 2007 at 12:01 pm

  232. i dont need to prov u that i was student of that jamia..mujay logon say concern nahee mera Allah mujay janta aur daikhta hay..simpathay aur tum logon say hahahahahah. very funny for me.. 2nd aap logon ki simpathay army kay sath hay aur we are agaist them. go a haed baby and pamper them who were supose to protect u.. Hamaray leay hamara Allah bhut kafi hay…. got it now…..ab shayad main na jwab day sakon coz mara result a chuka hay.. aur main aik aur jamia main jo esi ki branch hay wahan ja rahi hoon.. jab moqa mila jawab zaroor doon gi…

    by saadia Habib on Oct 1, 2007 at 12:07 pm

  233. All Muslim know that the lal masjid Tiger Abdur Reshid Ghazi is Shaheed he not kill because he work in the lal masjid for Islam All the pakistani know that the General Musharaf is a Rober its mean Dako he is Enemy of Islam and Pakistan If he was slected for more five years he was dengerious for pakistan and Islam.

    by Tiger on Oct 2, 2007 at 3:44 pm

  234. Musharaf is Dog and All the senior staff of Minister of Interior is his sons and they are son of butch

    by Tiger on Oct 2, 2007 at 3:47 pm

  235. Ghazi brother are Sheede Islam And Sheed Pakistan Musharaf is very Cruel and work for America because the bush is his father

    by Abbas on Oct 2, 2007 at 3:55 pm

  236. Nauman and others, who are bound to prove MUSH a Momin.

    MUSH is a mini-Dajjal, just a blind follower of his Master, a-lil-bigger-Dajjal.

    All the progress he claims is funny itself. Do people not know who can’t get electricity 24 hours a day and don’t have water to drink.

    All the fancy cars you see are on loans through micro-financing.

    Instead of credit, MUSH should be punished as he has put the whole nation into debts and debts just like his Master.

    Just waiting to see MUSH running his gas station in TX.

    by yetAnotherPaki on Oct 3, 2007 at 5:13 am

  237. sadia G
    y would i be jealous of u…i have proved u a lier on this blog and u urself by ur way/tone of addressing me have proved that ur nothing more than an illeterate cheap person.while ur completeing ur education do learn some manners.if this kind of language n tone u use to spread islam im sorry to say its really impolite and harsh…i dont need proofs from you of being student of jamia hafza….your two contradicting post are the biggest proof to prove u wrong.
    as far as ur technique of running away from this blog iz concerned its similar to that of haq and dark cloud…..my question remains unanswered…..

    tiger, abbass , yet another paki

    u abuse musharraf and are obviously politically against him. i have already in my previous posts clarified that this blog is not about politics.the question is weather ghazi sahib actions were islamic?i dare say they were not.musharraf politics maybe wrong but his being wrong does not make ghazi correct.the only shohda in that scenerio were the 14 security personal and the innocent cameraman and civillians passing by who were killed due to no fault of their own.most of them were doing their duty. if abducting chinese , burning buildings, accusing /abducting women, keeping arms in a mosque,making students hostage and corrupting young minds and lying on various occassions on tv etc and wearing burqa to run away are services to islam then lets all do it!!!!!!!!!!
    may allah have mercy on us…..
    as far as dajjal is concerned who r u to term anyone dajal?do u have wahi? how can u claim?
    i again say give me ayat n ahadith of the crime comitted by ghazi….you cannot do it……calling musharraf kafir /jew etc can not make ghazi sahib or burqaposh molvi correct…..

    by nauman on Oct 3, 2007 at 11:27 pm

  238. By Dark Cloud on Aug 27, 2007 | Reply

    “i wan to do jihad prophet said do u have mother he repplied yes peophet said go serve ur mother “many mothers and fathers
    were crying out for their children thats why Maulana allowed them to go after identifying their parents and relatives..”

    basically supporter of mr ghazi rasheed himself pointed out the ghair sharaee act of ghazi brothers…..this incident in which prophet (p.b.u.h) did not allow the boy to go for jihad without parents permission or making it clear serving your poor old parents is a jihad itself.
    i hv said these things earlier but let me say it again:-
    * ghazi sahib asked the students that they were allowed by their parents to do this so called jihad against fellow muslims?
    * why burqa posh molvi , his wife surrendered ….they were not called out by their loved ones

    on tv channels the interview of the jamia hifza students were shown throughout the operation…..they all were crying like anything and complaining that they did not know what ghazi sahib did to spoil their kids brain…they just sent their children to get islamic knowledge but ghazi sahib without their parents concern involved them in these illegal activities…..
    * ghazi sahib responsible of betraying the trust of the parents who gave their children to jamia hifza for knowledge about islam….ghazi brothers instead used them for their own private matters and used them as hostage.
    * islam does not allow any body to pay zakat from stolen money….in the same way one cannot perform jihad when his means and basis are wrong from the day 1.
    * all those people and muftis who declare me or any other person against ghazi brorthers as kafir should have participated in that so called jihad…..if u all are supporting him then y dont u hv guts to do the same….i know why is it so? coz the answer is very simple its difficult to call them doing criminal activities in the name of islam but your subconcious somehow believe that they were wrong.
    * as far as musharraf is concerned i have disagreement on various issues like cj, nawaz sharif, uniform etc etc…..but the operation wasnt wrong …it was necessarry….yes it was imp but the govt is responsible for their lack of knowledge about the presence of weapons inside the mosque….again they could have handled the situation in some other better way but again we cannot deny the fact that the ghazi brothers till last day of operation was invited for negotiations…..ghazi did not give his life for cause of islam…it was his ego tht did not allow him to surrender…….n just tell me by the death of of ghazi rasheed n his companions to what extent shariat is implemented in pakistan???????????????
    y not a single molvi continued the so called jihad by ghazi rasheed??????????????????
    not even u who are supporting ghazi?????????????
    if any politician calls for a strike, or go about in destroying public private property i.e burning buildings, cars ( last yr feb on issue of nawuzu billah prophet’s ( p.b.u.h) cartoons in a newspaper)…..u will see everybody had joined them but in this case nobody did…..
    * still i will not call ghazi rasheed and his supporters as kafir, dijal, bush ka chamcha aur any other abusive word.

    i will not do so coz Allah does not allow us to do this….its a sin……..
    anyways frndz the issue is quite clear…there is nothing much left on which one can argue…..but my request is please support ur posts logically correct i.e about any crime which ghazi did should be supported by a similar hadith or ayat……the ayats which dark clour reffered were out of context and he misunderstood them and i clarified him….since 27th aug he could not come up with any other hadith or ayat but unfortunately pinpointed the biggest sin of ghazi for using children for his own private benefits without their parents consent.

    Allah bless u all and sadia g Allah give u the courage to speak the truth!!!

    by nauman on Oct 4, 2007 at 5:53 am

  239. TM: Thoroughly disappointing. In your angst against the current government and army, you have framed an argument that is glorifying a bunch of people with no legitimate qualification to represent our religion, who, in fact, in their ignorance are demolishing the spirit and light of our religion. How would they be able to uplift the moral degradation of society? That is a naive and convenient argument for you to use against those you despise.

    Do you know that it was another military dictator, Gen Zia-ul-Haq, who had initiated the emphasis on Sharia within society as law to cover up his questionable execution of a legitimate prime minister? It was the perfect cover for him and its consequences have been far reaching. You really ought to check your primary sources to ensure they align with your general claims and views. It also acted as a catalyst to the ensuing inflood of Afghans and pashtuns with their tribal and wrongly placed versions of Islam. And now you, an educated man of the world, are easily falling prey to these products of times and events which have long ago left the path to right and good. Things are a mess, a big mess, but we set ourselves up for a fall when we reach for empty illusions as a solution (as you do when you think that the Lalmasjid crowd was the moral salvation of us all before venturing to gauge their legitimacy or intent or even right).

    The repressed ones (such as the ill qualified, bearded so called ulema) are often the most morally degraded. We all have to find our own way and sadly their is no one group to turn to to help us (with the exception of Abdus Sattar).

    I ran into your blog two days ago, and expected more from you given your qualifications and life exposures. I think I shall now not be quite as intent to follow your posts.

    Good day.

    by Disappointed on Oct 6, 2007 at 1:23 am

  240. disappointed:
    im convinced and appreciate your point of view!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by nauman on Oct 6, 2007 at 11:33 am

  241. eid mubarik to all of you!!!!!!!!!

    by nauman on Oct 12, 2007 at 10:23 am

  242. Mar gaya mardood
    na salam na dorood

    Umar Kuta ka pataho par lanat ba shumar

    by Syed Ali Hussain Naqvi on Oct 14, 2007 at 9:11 pm

  243. thI ran into your blog two days ago, and expected more from you given your qualifications and life exposures. I think I shall now not be quite as intent to follow your posts

    by adb on Oct 19, 2007 at 3:08 pm

  244. Assalam.o.Alikum to all Muslim Brothers. As there is discussion going on and the purpose of this discussion is to decide whether Gazi Abdur Rasheed is SHAHEED or NOT??? Just waana say,
    ” Apna AAMAAL daikhoo , apna KARTOOT daikhoo phir baat karoo. Hamaari zindagi main DEEN naam ki koi cheez hai hi nahee aur HUM un k BAARA main BAAT ker rha hain Joo aaj ka is PUR-FATEN dooor main bhee DEEN per AMEL kerna waala tha. Actually , joo is HAADSA main SHAHEED hua , woo hamaara apna nahee tha. Ager un main sa koi hamaari BAHEN hooti to main daikhta koon yahaan per aa ker is tareh DISCUSSION kerta. SHAME ON US ! ! !

    by Umer Khan on Oct 19, 2007 at 9:56 pm

  245. Allah ka shukar hai meray janay walay apna dimagh istimal kartay hain woh inn criminal activities mai involve ho hi nahi saktay…..inko shaheed kehna waqai sharam ki bat hai.i agree!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by nauman on Oct 20, 2007 at 8:03 am

  246. nauman
    Sorry to say, ” Yahan per to DILOON ka haal jaanna waala Moojood Hain”.

    by Umer Khan on Oct 20, 2007 at 2:47 pm

  247. dilon ka haal janay wala Allah hai aur woh har jaga mojood hai…..Allah has given us Quran for guidance and brain to judge right and wrong…..ur oneanother person who is emotionally black mailed in the name of religion….if u read above i have quoted u several incidents, ayats to support my arguement…..none of u can answer my questions yet u claim ghazi sahib was a hero…mr ghazi died coz of his ego…..i dont want to start over again…the issue is quite clear…u just need ur brain to judge rite n wrong

    by nauman on Oct 21, 2007 at 6:49 am

  248. I will SALUTE CRUSADERS and JEWS for such a great work to involve us in these types of DISCUSSION.
    SALUTE ONCE AGAIN

    by Osama Bin Laden on Oct 21, 2007 at 2:15 pm

  249. in my point of view ghazi abdur rsaheed fight the name of islam if any person fight the sovernity of islam and he died he is SHAHEED so ghazi abdur rashhed is shaheed

    by GOHAR SHAFIQUE on Oct 21, 2007 at 7:41 pm

  250. suicide bombers are then shaheed as well as they do it in the name of islam.

    by nauman on Oct 22, 2007 at 6:25 pm

  251. My Dear Brothers……
    Once Again I will say,
    “I will SALUTE CRUSADERS and JEWS for such a great work to involve us in these types of DISCUSSION.
    SALUTE ONCE AGAIN”

    by Osama Bin Laden on Oct 23, 2007 at 2:58 pm

  252. ghazi sahib shaheed for nifaz-e-islam

    by zeesha on Oct 23, 2007 at 9:54 pm

  253. unfortunately all the army generals are corrupt as they are given big plots in defence so i beleive the attack was not rite.

    At the same time i dont think it was justified for maulana to enforce shariah by force as we have to use our mind or fiqh.

    Even when the treaty of hudaiba was agreed upon by the prophet most of his companions got upset as it looked as if it went against muslims but it was the right thing to do at that time.

    Muslims should not invlove in themselves in any voilent activity but instead spread islam through dialogue,debate and discussion like dr.zakir naik,sheikh ahmed deedat and yusuf estes are doing and not to mention sheikh hamza yousaf

    by fahim on Oct 28, 2007 at 3:01 am

  254. all glory be 2 allah
    banee tahreek talba&talibath ghazi shaheed
    now ameer tahreek molana sheralishah sahib inshaallah mission jari rahayga

    by hammad on Oct 31, 2007 at 3:31 pm

  255. Salam brothers and sister.
    Its a very confusing topic that who is lalak or Shaeed.But i think that Islam teaches us humanity.the basic law of islam.
    eik dafa movie main dekha rahay tay kay eik sher(lion) laita huwa hay oor oos say kuch fasalay pur kuch janwar chara kha rahay hain lakin sher sirf daikh raha hay accack kisi pur nayi kurta. ju commentry kur raha tha oos nay bataya kay yeh sher ka pait bura huwa hay oor eisay shikar ki zaroorut nayi. So he is not making attack any animal becoz he have no need of food. Lakin hum insan jub pait bur laitay hain tu hamari kuwahashat oor ziyada ho jati hain. tu brother mujay click huwi kay abi hum mukamul junwar bhi nayi huway insaniyat tu bari door kibat hay.
    thanxso much.whois halak and how is sheed i dont know.

    by naini on Nov 5, 2007 at 11:51 am

  256. Lets pray to our Allah from the depth of our hearts and close the discussions on the topic.

    Musharrafs Supporters:

    Ya Allah Pak Humain Roze Qiamat Musharraf Aor Os Kay Ettehadyun Kay Saath Othana!Aor Hamara Anjam Unkay Saath Karna! Ameen

    Ghazi Abdur Rasheeds Supporteres’Pray:
    Ya Allah Pak Humain Roze Qiamat Ghazi Abdur Rasheed Aor un Kay Ashab Kay Saath Othana!Aor Hamara Anjam Unkay Saath Karna! Ameen

    These are the two short prayeres both should pray.

    by Gulzar Ahmad on Nov 20, 2007 at 7:26 pm

  257. OK. So you have confined the whole sanctitiy to these two groups, Musharraf and Ghazi Brothers?

    Are you stupid?

    No Muslim prays like this as you are suggesting.

    Everyone wants to be raised with the Holy Prophet P.B.U.H and his household.

    Think again!!!

    by Josh on Nov 22, 2007 at 12:33 am

  258. i agree with u

    by mishkat on Dec 14, 2007 at 3:06 pm

  259. “Will Busharraf launch OPERATION SILENCE against the army of the United Snakes of America to establish the writ of the state?

    The writ for which the government launched an operation against the students of the Jamia Hafsa and Lal mosque and burnt them all by using WP (white phosphorus); the same writ has been ruined under feet time and again by American Army. We ask the government that when would they launch the same operation silence against the coalition forces? Will the government as a gesture of protect stop giving logistic and Intelligence support to the coalition force?

    In fact the people of Pakistan know that the slogan of establishing writ is only when it comes to kill Muslims. Alas the government does this by using a sham full excuse that if we will not do this American will come and will do this. But the fact of the matter is that if Pakistani government today stop providing intelligence and logistic support to the coalition force they can not oven continue there operation in Afghanistan. American can not do anything alone without the support of our traitor and agents rulers. Our rulers giving then protection by sacrificing there own national interests and by sacrificing there own people and armies.

    We have seen how brave, strong and able the Amarican army is in Iraq.

    What is evident is that the utilization of force by the government to deal with both secular and Islamic forces exposes the intellectual bankruptcy of Busharrafs mantra of enlightened moderation. Instead of employing thoughts to battle the ideas of the opposition, Busharraf has resorted to force. The same method has been repeated by Busharrafs alliesAmerica, NATO and Israel under the guise of battle of hearts and minds and both have failed to crush the Islamic movements in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine. So what chance does Busharraf have?

    Dear Brothers and sisters, it is the right time the push the fragile wall of American empire which is falling and Establish and Islamic Caliphate which will protect our Blood, dignity, recourses, unity and Aqeedah and will take the whole humanity out from the clutches of capitalism into the light of Islam. Indeed the world is waiting for an Ideological change and what better alternative will the world have other then Islam.

    May Allah(swt)bless Abdul Rasheed Ghazi and all those who are fighting kufr and the armies of Kufr. May Allah
    (swt) give vitory to the belivers and grant us Khilafah.
    Ameeeen.
    Allah(swt) said it Quran ” Do not lose heart against the heaviest trail and never be in a state of grif, for you are bound to succeed if you are true in faith”.

    Thanks and Jazakallah

    by Dr.Tariq on Dec 15, 2007 at 10:42 am

  260. My Dear Brothers
    Once Again I will say,
    “I SALUTE CRUSADERS and JEWS for such a great work to involve us in these types of DISCUSSION.
    SALUTE ONCE AGAIN

    by OSAMA BIN LADEN on Dec 24, 2007 at 11:06 am

  261. The Lal Masjid issue will keep on burning the hearts of the Pakistani for long time to come. How can one tolerate killing the innocent children, women and youngmen even if we forget the old aged mother of the Ghazi brothers, about qhom on one is bothered.
    Though I cannot support building of a madrassah on occupied piece of land. The problem however is that the tackling of the issue in the end by the Royla army was absolutely an act of a drama well rehersed. In fact it appears now that the directors of this whole drama had the same ending in mind for long.
    Could’nt the royal army plan any thing that would have forced the occupants of the mosque to come out? Why media was not allowed to go near the vicinity of the mosque? Why was the media not taken to the mosque immediately after the operation cleanup had finished? Why mopping up exercise took so long? Where did the bodies of the victims go? It was all a drama staged by the fasict dictator to please his master that the radicals had entered even in the capital of Pakistan and only he could go such an extent to tackle them and kill them brutally.
    Now coming back to the main thing. Yes they are Insha Allah shaheeds. All those who were killed in the lal masjid. Since only Allah SWT Knows who actually is a shaheed, we should call these people as Insha Allah Shaheeds. Now that they have gone to their Lord, we have to pray that such incidents never take place in Pakistan. That such rulers never come to power in Pakistan. That royal army become Pakistan Army once again. That royal army should stop working to strengthen the rule of a military dictator but should take to task itself, any general who thwarts the constitution for personal gains and rule.
    Naveed

    by Naveed on Dec 25, 2007 at 10:54 am

  262. This morning, I woke up and started thinking about people calling Benazir a SHAHEED. Even biggest newspapers in Pakistan. I started thinking what a shaheed is and realized she is not one. She didn’t die for sake of Islam. In fact she never done anything for Islam. Then I thought about Zia and Bhutto, may be I am wrong about them but I never read that they have done any good to Islam. Media in Pakistan is so illiterate that they don’t even know meaning of Shaheed. How can we hope for good? A person who is killed due to political reasons is not a Shaheed unless he/she was defending Islam. For all these three, people who think they were Shuhda, they need to look for Shaheed’s defination. This include sahafi’s in Jang newspaper as well.

    by Asif on Dec 29, 2007 at 1:07 pm

  263. Shame on Perwaiz Musharif (Busharif) He used and is using Pakistan’army & (Innocent ppl)’blood for the sake of his own chair.

    May Allah help the helpless
    (Amin)
    Pakistan Army Zinda baad EXCEPT PERVAIZ MUSHARRIF (BUSHARRIF)

    ALLAH HAFIZ

    by hafeez on Dec 31, 2007 at 12:16 am

  264. Shame on Perwaiz Musharif (Busharif) He used and is using Pakistan’army & (Innocent ppl)’blood for the sake of his own chair.

    May Allah help the helpless
    (Amin)
    Pakistan Army Zinda baad EXCEPT PERVAIZ MUSHARRIF (BUSHARRIF)

    REGARDS

    by hafeez on Dec 31, 2007 at 12:18 am

  265. L on Perwaiz Musharif (Busharif) He used and is using Pakistan’army & (Innocent ppl)’blood for the sake of his own chair.

    May Allah help the helpless
    (Amin)
    Pakistan Army Zinda baad EXCEPT PERVAIZ MUSHARRIF (BUSHARRIF)

    REGARDS

    by hafeez on Dec 31, 2007 at 12:22 am

  266. main to bus itna kaho ga Allah kay rastay par chalo Allah har aik ko nqki ki tofeeq day.zalimo ko barbAD KAR DAY

    by tahir on Jan 15, 2008 at 1:57 am

  267. abdul rasheed ghazi ik number kay fardiay hain kun k abdul aziz sahab nay kaha k mujhay hazoor paak ki ziarat hui hay woh bhi 300 martaba .aray bhai jis ko bisharatain ho jain woh GHAZI ILM DEEN KI tarhaan shaheed ho jata hay BURQA nahi pahanta . afsos hay in logon pay deen islam ko apnay baap ka mazhab banaya hua hay ik taraf politics ko dhoka likhtay hain dosri taraf apnay hi mulla maulana fazal ur rehman or qazi hakomat say khaltay hain ik taraf america ki mukhalfat kartay hain to dosri tarafapni auladon ko unkay paas bhajtay hain ya awaam ko kab tak bhaint charhatay rahain gay ya wohi fasadi mulla hain jin kay baray main nabi paak nay kah dia tha kay yah sharpasand mulla zaroor ayengay sab logon say guzarish karta hun kay bacho in mullaoon say .NABI WARIS

    by SAMEENA SABIR on Jan 15, 2008 at 1:06 pm

  268. Shaheed is a term that is now used widely in the muslim world as a title for someone who died for a cause, whether right or wrong, rather than being reserved for someone who gave his life for the cause of Allah.

    The real question lies in answering the following question first “What is the cause of Allah?”

    Call me naieve, but according to my knowledge, the lal masjid area was basically land that was encroached upon, if not all then definitely a substantial amount.

    Second, the Imam’s of the masjid, namely the Ghazi brothers, had been implicated in terrorism charges before, a well documented fact. And as to who initiated the mayhem, the entire fiasco was broadcast live on nationwide TV, from the time of attacking the adjacent library to the kidnapping of police officers to the burning of shops etc. (for the sake of simplicity, lets forget the kidnapping of alleged prostitutes and the chinese massage ladies et al)

    Thirdly, no matter how correct the views of Ghazi brothers were vis a vis the shariah law, the basic fact remains that shariah can never, I REPEAT, NEVER, be enforced on anyone. It will succeed ONLY AND ONLY if it is adopted willingly by the masses; sadly, that is not going to happen in Pakistan unless the people at large stop being hypocrites, you and me included.

    by danstar on Jan 22, 2008 at 3:34 pm

  269. To The Chief of Army Staff Gen.Parvez Musharaf
    Sir
    Ye baat tu puri dunia janti hai k aap aik ghatia insan honay k sath sath musalmano k naam pe aik azeem dhabba hain.Lal masjid me jo hua us pe har sahib-e-goor insan ke aankh ashkbaar thi.to kuttay k bachay tujhay challenge karta hoon k jaisa to musalmano k saath kar raha hai inshaAlla tere sath b wohi huga kiun k insan agar zulm karay to us ka badla usay dunia me zarur milta hai.tu amrica ka pittho hai

    by syed Usama Saleem on Jan 22, 2008 at 10:40 pm

  270. I dont want to go into whether he was shahid or Halak? its upon God to decide… all i would like to mention is that he was talking about Sharia. Which Sharia he was wanted to bring… the taliban or extreme form of shariah which have nothing to do with islam… so my friends with open eyes open brain is must so you can understand what was there aim. For sure he was fighting for his personal aim not for islam… and all those deaths are on his own head, no one else. Forces gave him enough time to draw back, but he choose to die, so be it… Pakistan is suffering because of these people a lot… now we have one more in Swat, may God be justice with the issue, and kill the one who deserves. Aameen

    by Sajjad Haider on Jan 26, 2008 at 3:32 pm

  271. he was not a shaheed becuase he ws not following islam i.e in the foot steps of Muhammad(SAWS) just think did our prohpet ever forced islam ? no he never did that he didn’t kidnapped non muslims even when they were doing worng i would have called that f..king Mullana a saheed if he some how had converted the chinees women to islam instead of kidnapping them.IMAGINE A HEADLING THAT F/8 CHINEES WOMEN HAVE CONVERTED TO ISLAM BY MULLANA INSTEAD OF THE HEADLINES THAT HAVE HAVE BEEN KIDNAPPED BY MULLANA. every problem can be solve if we just consider Prophet Muhammad as our role model

    by MALIK AMAN on Jan 26, 2008 at 9:38 pm

  272. People you guys are so pathetic that you have a pic of this terrorist published. Shaheed, Jannat are not the words for this man. He was a terrorist and I am very proud of Pakistan Army to eliminate this thing from the society. At the last momement, he wanted to get out but others who were not getting the safe passage asked him to give his life since he preached all about it. Glad the Fitna is gone and its over. Please grow up and remember its OK not to shoot every one with AK 47 and make a name for yourself and study and make sure you are not a burden to Pakistan and be part of a normal Non Mullah society. Be human for a change and Not a freaking taliban or a terrorist for a change. Follow Islam and not bin laden for a change.

    by Khurram Sheikh on Jan 30, 2008 at 8:50 am

  273. Aslaaaaal-o-Alaikuuuuuum

    Mere bhai aj kal k dor ma jan dena koi aasan kaaam nai ha aj hamara deeeeeeen itna kamzoooooor ho gya ha k hum apne puray din ma 5 namazoon k liya thora sa waqt nai de sakte to jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan dena to boooooooohat dur ha.
    Jis jis ne GHAZI sahib ko SHAHEED nai kaha wo apne girebaaaan ma jhank ker daikain sab kuch samjh a jaye ga

    Asal ma kuch hum ma se hi aesay hain jo ya chahte hi nai k PAKISTAN ma ISLAAAM ho wo log is dunya hi ko sab kuch samjh ker isi ma mast rehte hain un ka dill nahi chahta k hamari maan aur behan bhi islam per chalain wo sirf ye chahte hain k GENARAL PERVAIZ BASHARAM ki roshan khayaali our beeesharmi puray PAKISTAN ma aaam ho jaye
    MOLANA ABDUL RASHEED GHAZI sirf SHAHEEEEEEED hi nahi balke SHAHEEDON se bhi shaid barh ker hain unhoon ne Islam ki khatir apni jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan ki b perwa nai ki aur hum unhe halaak keh dain to boooooooohat hi sharm wali bat ha (SHAME ON U ALL)

    Kash ALLAH hamain b un k naqsh-e-qadam per chalne ki tooofeeq de

    AAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNN.

    by Shahbaz Yousaf on Feb 11, 2008 at 8:27 am

  274. Dr. Awab

    I did not realise that you could be so clueless This Ghazi was a friend of Ijaz ul Haq and Ch. Shujaat and an ISI agent. He was dumped after being used. What is wrong with you. Why can’t you just foucs on real issues like democracy, poverty, injustice?

    by Laila Ahmed on Feb 11, 2008 at 11:30 am

  275. Dear Sir,
    It is better that we should leave it to Allah to decide.
    What ever has happened in Lal masjid happened on the signal of Taghooti forces who want to teach jehadis/Sharpasands a lesson.The example of Fatah Makka and its peaceful out come is infront of us.Ghazi Brothers had taken law in hand they were culprits.According to sharia one can not take weapons against the state untill the government has stopped them from Salat.The govt can be criticised.
    the matter of masjid-a-zarar is different.they were anti islamic forces.however here there were muslim women and children,there were many ways to handle the situation.it was over own country.

    It is a hidden secret that over javans /officers who were against this action were taken away/killed by their own people!

    by Shahjee on Feb 13, 2008 at 1:24 pm

  276. Ghazi Shab jese insaan is dunia main kabhi kabhi payda hote hain. un ko hum halak nahin keh sekte kise muslam ko ye zeb nahin deta keh ho ghazi shab ke liye ye alfaz kahey wo shaheed hain un ki nqaber se kushboo ka uthna is baat ki gavahi hain keh wo shaheed hain. Muhammad Aqeel Hamza Zahid Mahmood

    by Zahid Mahmood on Feb 18, 2008 at 10:02 pm

  277. [No Muslim can dare attack a masjid, because it is Allah house.]

    Many such mosques fell in pakistan to give way to roads n highways, what allah house r u talking about here?

    The same thing has happened in saudi too which is progressing faster infrastructure wise, they even raized down prophet muhamd’s house to rubble to errect new buildings.

    by sameer on Feb 21, 2008 at 5:40 pm

  278. bhai raza majid illegal kis tarah hai masjid leagel the aur jamai hafza maulana sahab ne khud kaha tha ke islami nizam ka governoment elan kar de mein pervez mussaraf ke jotay uthanay ko tayar hon jamai hafza bhi garanay ko tayar hon phir islami nizam govt kyoun nehin latey sath islamabad mein 90 mosque ko notice diya 1 masjid tu 100 years purani hai us ko bhi garaya diya 7 majid shaheed kardein gain kyoun aakhir 1 church bhi gara kar patao goverment walo phir dekhtay hain kya ho ta hai

    by waqas on Feb 26, 2008 at 10:31 pm

  279. hai raza majid illegal kis tarah hai masjid leagel the aur jamai hafza maulana sahab ne khud kaha tha ke islami nizam ka governoment elan kar de mein pervez mussaraf ke jotay uthanay ko tayar hon jamai hafza bhi garanay ko tayar hon phir islami nizam govt kyoun nehin latey sath islamabad mein 90 mosque ko notice diya 1 masjid tu 100 years purani hai us ko bhi garaya diya 7 majid shaheed kardein gain kyoun aakhir 1 church bhi gara kar patao goverment walo phir dekhtay hain kya ho ta hai

    by waqas on Feb 26, 2008 at 10:37 pm

  280. I think this debate must be stopped now.It is the most purposeless debate I have ever come across.Maulana Ghaza has gone to our maker,and no matter what I our you say ,he will get what he deserves.So stop bickering over something on which people are poles apart and will never agree.
    But consider this that those who use the house of Allah for stocking arms and promoting violance,can they be considered good people ,leave alone shaheed.The other side also used excessive force when less brutal methods could have served the purpose.Both were wrong and did evil.And anyone who justifies evil will also be counted amongst evil doers.
    But Allah knows best.May he have mercy on Pakistan and all Pakistanis – and also all those who died at Lal Masjid. Ameen.

    by Hassan Rizvi on Feb 27, 2008 at 1:52 am

  281. im not sayin dat wat ghazi rasheed did wuz rite but wat musharraf did was just not an acceptable behavior!!!musharraf and all da corrupt ministers made excuses dat
    1.ghazi rasheed kidnapped foreigners
    2.illegal weapons
    3.bunkers etc
    4.Ghazi is holding back children and women as prisoners

    dere wuz no one foreigner found no bunkers etc and if ghazi was holdin back the helpless the ones who came out why didn’t they the army that ghazi had held them captive?when lal masjid was opened they showed rocket launchers etc.Use ur common sense people if the lal masjid people had all these things how come they didnt use it?rocket launchers have a long range how come they didnt destroy the houses nearby?how come the army wasnt destroyed?

    musharraf killed an entire generation devoted to islam! WHY? because george bush told him so!

    Jamia Hufsa was Asis’s largest madrassa where 2000 poor girls all over pakistan came to seek knowledge in the light of quran.

    musharraf says only 150 people were killed then what happened to the remaining 1000 girls? the ground just open up and swallow them! i’ve seen Jamia hufsa myself it was huge.musharraf considers himself a muslim how can he be a muslim when pieces of the quran,women’s and children’s bodies were found in G-7 nala!the gov told lies in the tv wenevur the azaan started they always started firing i know this because iwas there at the time of the incident.

    the nite when ghazi rasheed was killed along with 1050 innocent chilren and women the sky turned blood red like wat had happend at karbal at hazrat hussain’s martyrdom!

    v will 4get over the passage of time dat dis incident evur happened but wat about those families who lost their luved ones in this operation? they will never forget how their luved ones were forced to eternal sleep by the hands of the cruel musharraf and bush who’s only goal is to see muslims suffer.

    by era of darkness on Mar 16, 2008 at 4:04 pm

  282. o u all just shutup and stop talkin about that bastard ghazi and his mentally sick followers…..KHAS KAM JAHAN PAK……..haha people devoted to islam…hillarious!!!!!!!!
    aqal k andho use your brains……..anybody using the name of islam can blackmail the muslims……all the supporters should have died along with him instead of barking on this blog.

    by sick n tired on Mar 17, 2008 at 11:24 am

  283. I quite agree with the last post.People who blow themselves up killing innocent civilians-working class people, labourers, innocent women and children ;all of them fellow Pakistanis and Muslims at that- and then fantasise that they are going to heavens are mentally sick and desereve no mercy.
    What kind of shariah can such people believe in?Their call for shariah is just a ploy and a cover to win sympathy for their blackmailing activities .
    We need to support our government in getting rid of these nuts.All mosques which are found even remotely connected with promoting or supporting such ‘fitna’ must be closed.Also it is about time the real ‘big guns’ behind the bombers are caught and punished for their activities, instead of being given the blind eye.
    I suggest they be strapped into explosive jackets and be blown up.They need a taste of their own medicine.
    Being sick n tired will not help at all:the nation needs to be aroused enough to support in every manner all steps to eliminate this evil menance,crazy enough to target their own people.

    by Shabbir Ahmed on Mar 17, 2008 at 7:33 pm

  284. ghazi rashid is sheed because he work for islam .in pakistan there is no islami rolls and regulation country .in the marriate hotel. lott of rich man go with bed carcters girls and womes .and get visky .beer.and other lots of elcols, viski is avalable .also in the marriate hotel.othere more hotel get dance party there. there is alow to get sex there. film stars come there. also goia.bed peoples and lady avalable .rashid go work for islam in the lifew.pakistan there is no islami rolls .all mna. mpa. othere consaler is not good people. if any body have mony or badmash people he go to mna.mpoa.othere seat.gazi work for islam.for muslam . mashrif allow to take zana. all bed work alow. rashid is gazi and shaeed.good by

    by luqman muslim on Apr 25, 2008 at 7:14 pm

  285. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!

    ghazi rasheed was working for people like “luqman muslim”………….if u are speaking in a blog and that too in english try to learn it first….HARDLY your ANY spelling is correct………i think u hv never been to school or college……thats y u believe in people like ghazi bastard rasheed…… you mr muslim how can u accuse musharraf for spreading zanna…….was this society pure and morally correct before musharraf……who has given this bastard the right to give fatwas and kidnap women …….if u read Quran u will come to know tht publicity of sins is not allowed ……i.e gunnah ki tasheer karna manna hai…………
    but illeterate people like u believe in fisadis like ghazi…..
    CONGRATULATIONS!!!! KHAS KAM JAHAN PAK

    by sick n tired on Apr 26, 2008 at 5:44 pm

  286. oye luqman…….tu kis madrissay da nam badnam kar rayan hain?????????????? sharam kar kakay sharam…….BAD dai spelling tu ik wari vi saheeh nahi likay……….. tu marriot hotel wich ja k app vaikha hai k othay ko honda hai????????? ya othay maal ghazi paijan supply karda si???????? tu hain kon??????????? ballo mainu tay teray tai shak hai k tu wi kisi chowk wich phat na jaeen…..thwanu ottay ja k tay chittar painay hi panay athey wi penay chai dain……….

    GHAZI RASHEED GANDASAY / BANDOOQ WALAY TAI AZIZ PAIJAN BURQAY WALAY TAY SARAY ISLAM DAI SACHAY SHEEDAIAN NU ALLAH HIDAYAT DAI

    by mulla umar on Apr 26, 2008 at 5:53 pm

  287. oye luqman…….tu kis madrissay da nam badnam kar rayan hain?????????????? sharam kar kakay sharam…….BAD dai spelling tu ik wari vi saheeh nahi likay……….. tu marriot hotel wich ja k app vaikha hai k othay ko honda hai????????? ya othay maal ghazi paijan supply karda si???????? tu hain kon??????????? ballo mainu tay teray tai shak hai k tu wi kisi chowk wich phat na jaeen…..thwanu ottay ja k tay chittar painay hi panay athey wi penay chai dain……….

    GHAZI RASHEED GANDASAY / BANDOOQ WALAY TAI AZIZ PAIJAN BURQAY WALAY TAY SARAY ISLAM DAI SACHAY SHEEDAIAN NU ALLAH HIDAYAT DAI .
    park likh tai lo pelon kena chakran chai pai gayay ho…jahil na howay tou………khasman nu kha ghazi nu

    by mulla umar on Apr 26, 2008 at 5:54 pm

  288. oh shaheed ko halak kehney walohn lanat hy tum par

    by Allama on Apr 26, 2008 at 10:44 pm

  289. oye mulla umar
    mere hath se kuteh k mot marey ga to
    shaheed ko halak kahneh waleh
    wo to shaheed howe hen
    to kuteh ki mot mare ga
    luqman sahe keh raha hy

    oye
    sick n tired
    to baster hy to harami hy haram ka hy
    sick n tired to to mere baster kuteh se bi bureh mot mare ga
    to kanjar ka bacha hy harami hy sooor hy to

    by Allama on Apr 27, 2008 at 10:26 am

  290. ghazi rasheed deshshat gardi kartay huway mar gia………
    look at these islam k sheedai………ghazi so called jihad was for people like them….

    by ooops on Apr 27, 2008 at 10:45 am

  291. halak kehne waleh sab kafir or america ke bandey hen
    in sab par allah ki lanat ho
    abdul rasheed ghazi shaheed rehmatullah alye zinda bad
    america or musharaf murda bad
    musharaf to kuteh ki mot mareh ga

    by Ghazi Shaheed on Apr 27, 2008 at 3:33 pm

  292. saheed howe hen wo halak kehne walon tum sab najaiz ma bap ki owlad ho

    by Danger on Apr 27, 2008 at 3:34 pm

  293. halak tou boht decent word hai woh mara gia tha :))))))))))))))

    jo galian bak rahay hain woh sachay muslims, islam k ashiq aur true followers hain…..i dont need to abuse ppl to prove my point……those who do not have logic do such things……..
    i support shabbir ahmad view point …..he was a terrorist and killed…danger apkay tou kia hi kehnay??????? atleast u prove ur identity………ghazi was an american agent aur gand ghol k mar gia aur ab chittar kha raha ho ga…….woh shaheed hai tou tum sab bhi uski tarh sheheed ho jao….dar kis bat ka hai?????????? marra tou woh bhi kuttay ki mot hi hai????? akhir mai tou jan bakhswanay ki fikar kar raha tha…andar apnay hi bandon nai bahir nahi bhagnay dia…….

    by ooops on Apr 27, 2008 at 5:18 pm

  294. Ghazi kai khilaf bolney waley, Altaf Hussain kaa to moonh kaala ho hee raha hai, saath saath MUSH (AKLHU= Allah Kee Laanat Ho uspey) bhee khud apney mah-khaney main zaleeel ho , ho kar..apney baap Ariel Sharon kee tarhaa zindagee aur maut kai darmian rahey gaaa. Naa maut miley gee aur naa zindageee, Insha Allah.

    by kabheekabhee on Apr 27, 2008 at 11:55 pm

  295. Aik bhai woh thaa jisney jo kaha uspey jaan deee. Salam ho uskee Jura-at ko aik woh thaa jo burqa pahn kar zaleel hoaa.

    Allah izzat ata farmaey jinhon nai janain-dee aur Allah zaleel farmaey unko jinhon nai masoom-on per golian chalaeen aur qaum kai ghez-o-ghazab sai dar kar chup-chupaa karo masoom-bachon aur khwateeen ko dafan kardiaa. Qaum kai ghez-o-ghazab sai to bach gaey, Allah kai ghez-o-ghazab sai kon bachaey gaa , jo jantaa hai haqeeqat.

    Allah Musharraf ko aur uskey jaisey jitney Munafiqeeen hain, jo muslmanon per zulm kartey hain aur uskee himayat kartey hain tabah o barbaad farmaey aur unkee zindagion ko dosron kai liey maqam-e-ibrat banaey, Ameeen.

    by karachiWala on Apr 28, 2008 at 12:08 am

  296. chalo tum saray sachay muslims kab shaheed ho rahay hain????????????????????????? hum munafaqeen hain ACHAAAAAAAA app shaid apnay apko Allah samjhtay hain….mujh mai itni jurrat nahi k mai ghazi ya kisi ko munafiq kahun baharhal woh mar gia tha geedar ki maut………
    tum log saray kab shariat nafiz karnay k liyay shaheed ho gai? idar baith k yabbrian marna iz very easyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy………..hahahahahakhekhekhekhekhekhekhe!!!!!!!!!!!

    by ooops on Apr 28, 2008 at 9:16 am

  297. mashallah allama sahib itni shirafat ki zuban mai bat kartay hain….aur baqi saray bhi itni achi galian dai kar apnay sachay muslim honay ka yaqeen dilatay hain but wait!!!!!! did prophet(p.b.u.h) abused any body??? did he kidnap any woman???? did he abducted small children and girls & boys against their parents wish for jihad??????? did he use mosque for such criminal activities in the name of islam??????
    the answer is NO …… do we have to follow ghazi or prophet (p.b.u.h)………..
    u all cannot answer these questions but just abuse coz thts very easy to do…….all the jahils do the same……emotional jingoism cannot make him right.
    keep on abusing i dont mind…earning sins for urself ……..
    can just say …Allah apko aqal aur naik rasta dai aur hidayat…..

    by use brains on Apr 28, 2008 at 11:02 am

  298. I really fail to understand why so much of a debate about the shahadat or not of Mr. Ghazi? Now he is gone and his matter is with Allah SWT. Only HE Knows whether or not he is a shaheed or not. Why do you bother.
    All those who support his cause should call him Insha Allah Shaheed. Allthose who do not think that he embraced shahadat should keep silent on the isuue.

    It is very sensitive issue. If he is a shahhed in the eyes of Allah ST then those who are striving hard to prove that he is not, they will have to face the consequences. So better keep silent and pray for althose who suffered.

    by Jawan on Apr 28, 2008 at 3:24 pm

  299. oye use brains tera dimag kharab hy to sam ka kharab nahi hy dimag short nahi kar

    by muslim brains on Apr 29, 2008 at 10:26 am

  300. jawan
    wat if musharraf is or nelofar bhaktiar or any kidnapped woman by ghazi are morally better than us in the eyes of Allah???????????????? n for calling all these people munafiq, qadiani, kafir , prostitute etc aren’t we afraid of the consequences?????????
    if everything shown on tv or published in papers against ghazi is incorrect , dramma by the govt etc so how we r sure tht the same media is correct abt musharraf or any of the above mentioned ppl.
    if something shown against ghazi on geo etc tht is false but if its against govt then its correct…wat a diplomacy
    we r so emotion n stupidppl tht we would burn our own buildings, beat our own ppl for tht cheif justice……we wont raise voice for actual issues like poverty, electricity, inflation etc etc…..
    im not i9nterested if mush is cheif of army staff or not…if he has removed his uniform wat happened??????????? nothing
    wat is geo…..by showing chali chali chapal type humour aren’t they inciting ppl to come on roads n talk lawn order in their own hands………….

    by use brains on Apr 29, 2008 at 11:03 am

  301. @use brains

    consequences?????????

    babuuu train nikal gaee hai, yai ticket bekar hogaya hai. Abb koee naya ticket laoo.

    Consequence…, uss waqt yaad nahee aya jab yateem bachey aur bachian, musharraf kai hukm per jala-ee jaa rahee theen.

    Salam hai uss haddee ko jo Mush kai galey main phansee hai, naa nigal saktaa hai naa nikal sakta hai.

    by Peelee Kothee kai bhoot on Apr 29, 2008 at 7:17 pm

  302. uss waqt sharam nahi jab maulana aurton ko aghwa kar raha tha …… jab wo yahood aur bush k kehnay pai afghanistan mai so called jihad k nam par apnay muslman bhaion ko mar raha tha…..aur jab uskai pairoo khudkash bambari mai najanay kitnay begunahon ko mar rahay thay….jab ghazi ki gari sai launcher niklay thay aur jab uss nai maffi mangi thi ya jab uska bhai burqay mai farar ho raha tha…yeh jihad tou boht asaan hai zan zar aur zameen dekh lo saray isb ki zakat , g 6 ki mehngi property , weapons aur zarorat parnay par larkion ka aghwa aisay jihadi waqai sunnat e nabwi sai mazak k murtakib hain aur jo phans qayamat k din unkay galay mai ho gi uss sai unko kon bachay ga ….SHAID ISS BLOG K LOG JO USKO DEFEND KARNAY K LIYAY LOGON KO HARAMI AUR NAJAIZ AULAD, MUNAFIQ KEHTAY HAIN…….hats off to u!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by use brains on Apr 29, 2008 at 8:44 pm

  303. use brains,

    Its useless to argue with these people.

    If you are true to your words, why don’t you spend some time reading Quran and Hadeeth so people like you can show Muslims what true Islam is really about.

    Its useless to argue without knowledge and references.

    by AjEeB on Apr 30, 2008 at 6:35 pm

  304. enough hadith n ayats are given above to prove him wrong …i dont need to cut and paste…..

    by use brains on Apr 30, 2008 at 11:33 pm

  305. KAR DIA MUSHKIL JEEEEEEEEEENA " GHAZI KAMEENA"!!!!!!

    by ballay ballay shawa on May 1, 2008 at 9:21 pm

  306. What ever he was doing was wrong and what ever happened was also wrong. It can be said that it was war of two wrongs.

    by Tahseen Alam Khan on May 2, 2008 at 2:55 pm

  307. Read this. This is a daugher of Pakistan.

    ……Sonia Naz is a 24-year businesswoman and mother of two. A year ago, she registered a complaint against the Faisalabad police. She said they demanded a bribe from her husband and kidnapped him when he refused to pay.

    Months later, she claims that she, too, was kidnapped by the superintendent of the Faisalabad police, Abdullah Khalid. “I told him that I was going to take back the complaint and I begged him for forgiveness. I said ‘Please let me go,’” Naz says. “But he didn’t listen and he raped me. Even when he was beating me on my face, he urinated on my face. And all the other people kept watching this happen. And I was begging each one of them, for God’s sake let me go, for God’s sake let me go. I have small children and they said yes, yes, we’ll let you go.”

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/pakistan/mckenna_pakistan.html

    …So who is responsible? Offcourse the criminals and the rulers

    What happened to the thugs who were responsible for rape of Dr. Shazia? When MUSH machinery came into working to malign Dr Shazia and to make people believe that she was herself responsible for it.

    Even if she was a protitute. It is the duty of the rulers to provide her justice.

    But…., Read MUSH’s response to this tragedy…

    Mush said, “This has become a money making concern. A lot of people say if you want to go abroad and get a visa for Canada or citizenship and be a millionaire, get yourself raped.”

    Did Ghazi support the criminals who raped Dr Shazia. No, it was MUSH…

    The only time our Police and our forces seem to be active is when they get COMMAND from the MASTERS.

    There are so many victims who have suffered because our rulers are busy ass*kissing the masters. May Allah destroy them and their Masters, Ameeen.

    This is what you are defending Musharraf for. May Allah curse him, and munafiqeen like him, and make their lives miserable in this world and hereafter, Ameeen.

    by ReadThis on May 2, 2008 at 7:06 pm

  308. SALAM.sab se pehley Jo log gazi ko halak kehein gay wo apnay baray mein sochai aap kitnay achay hain agar aap kehtay ho gazi wrong tha tu phir tum log khud pakistan mein islami nizam le ao apnay tareqay se islam mein kaha likha khai ke gana jaiz hai brithels jaiz hain.gazi ke sath pura g 6 tha tabhi munafiq darpook army ne curfew laga dia saray g 6 mein.aur idhar islamabad mein zana khanay aam khulay huwe hain hamokat KA KAM HAI UN KO BAND KARNA.MAGAR HAMOKAR YEH KAM NA KAREY TU MUHALAY WALON KA KAM BAN JATA HAI.ANTI SHAMEEM 1 AISE AURAT THE JO 20 YEARS SE WAHAN GALAT KAM KAR RAKE THE.HADEES SHARIF MEIN ATA HAI KE BURAE DEKHO HAT SE ROKO.AGAR HATH SE NEHIN ROK SAKTAY ZUBAN SE ROKO AGRA ITNA BHI EMAN NEHIN TO DIL MEIN BURA JANO.BUKHARI SHARIF AUR MUSLIM MEIN YEH HADEEES HAI.AUR QURAN MEIN 1 AYAT KA TURJUMAH YEH HAI KE JO LOG ALLAH KE DE HWE SHARIAT NAFIZ NEHIN KARTAY WO KAFIR HAIN.ALLah khud yeh keh rahay hain ke wo kafir hain.agar koi aur details chai ho ya face to face bat karney hai tu ao mere id yeh hai [email protected].3 din pehley g 11 3 islmabad mein 1 guest house ka pata chala jis par mashallah likha hwa hai aur wo brothel hai meray pas 10 gawa bhi mujod hain mein us ghar gaya aur un se payar se bat ke key yeh bund karo is se muslims ke besti horahe hai suddenly 2 police walay ayeh aur khney lagay aap idhar na ao.matlab police bhi un ke sath hai.magar yad rakho ab zamana badal raha hai swat mein bhi taliban ka control agay hai aab jaldi islamabad mein bhi ayeh ga inshallah.Mussaraf kafir yazeed hai.aur jo us ko pasand kartay hain wo yeh tu sochain ke mussaraf din mein kitney namaz parhta hia.army bhi us se tang hai wo america se dar gay.karagil mein us ne surrender kiya uar elzam nawaz sharif par lagaya.aur 1 aur bat agar lalmasjid walay kalat thay tu aap logon ke chaudry SHUJAT MAFI MANGANAY UN KE PAS KOABDUL AZIZ KE PASS AYA ELECTION KE DINA MAIN.AUR ALLAH NE PML KO ELECTION MEIN BURE SHIKAST DE.GAZI KE KABAR SE KHUSBU MEKAHI.AUR WO SHAHEED HO KAR BHI ZINDA HAIN UN KA CHEHRA MUSKURA RAHA HAI.MUSSARAF NE ALLAH KE WRIT KO CHALLENGE KIYA HWA HAI.AUR JO LOG KEHTAY HAIN KE MUSLIM MUSLIM KO MAR RAHA HAI YEH KAISE JIHAD HAI SUN LO HAZRAT ABU BAKAR RA NE BHI UN MUSLIMS KE KHILAF JIHAD KIYA JO ZAKAT NEHIN DETAY THAY.SAB SE PEHLEY LALMASJID KA MASLA KAHAN SE SHURO HWA HAKOMAT NE 7 MASJID ISLMABAD RAWALPINDI MEIN GIRA DEIN UN MAEIN 1 MASJID 100 YEARS PURANE THE MASJID CDA SE APPROVED THEIN LEKIN HAKOMAT NE OPHIR BHI GARA DEIN.AGAR HAKOMAT MASJID GIRA SAKTI HAI ALLAH KA GHAR GIRA SAKTI HAI TU 1 SIRF 1 CHURCH BHI GIRAY PHIR DEKHTEY HAIN KE MAERICA KYA KARTA HAI.AUR AAJ EUROPE PAR KADAM KADAM PAR CHURCH HAIN WO UN KO KYOUN NEHIN GITRATAY.MUSSARAF YAZEED HAI.GAZI SHAHEED HAI.

    by 1 Mujahid on May 3, 2008 at 11:30 am

  309. I AGREE WITH MUJAHID.SUBHANAALAH GAZI IS shaheed.

    by WAQAS on May 3, 2008 at 11:35 am

  310. plz visit http://www.lalmasjid.com/nsite/index.phpom

    by WAQAS on May 3, 2008 at 11:37 am

  311. LAUGHS OUT LOUD:)))))))))))ON MUJHAID

    ISLAMI NIZAM………….HAHAHA…… pakistan ka sab sai bara problem app jaisay jahil hain….selective use of ayats and ahadees just to prove your point..app logon mai na tou bardasht hai aur na hi emman…not defending q league, mush or anybody else…magar yeh kahan ka insaaf hai k hamam k sarray nangay utth k muashray mai fisad philana shru kar dein.islamabad k saray brothels ghazi sahib ko last yr hi nazar ayay uss sai pehlay woh so rahay ya ghazi sahib khud auntie shamim sai bhatta letay thay? pichlay saal sai pehlay kia aisi waja thi k unka eman soya hua tha? woh bhi america k isharay par utthay pakistan ko nuksan pohnchaya ..un k marnay walay bhi america k isharay par achay kam kartay rahay aur ab app bhi shaid ghair mulkion ko khush karnay k liyay pak mai fisad philana chahtay hain….kal aik 7 saala bachi wanni hui konsa molvi bola? imam masjid nai uska nikah parhaya jo ab jail mai hai? app jesay jahilon ko sirf brothals hi kiun nazar atay hain? chaska ya apnay zehan ka gand??????????????????????? iskay ilawa jo burraian hain unkay baray mai kiun khamosh rehtay hain???????/ ghazi sahib k 1 brother emam masjid frm a posh sector in isb nai apnay down syndrome betay k liyay peshawar sai sar paisa pai aik normal larki biwi k tor par lai li…iss par apka eman khamosh rehta hai.iss par app burai ko nahi roktay…disco natein bhi jaiz ….reshmi pagrian aur silky dress bhi jaiz kia mahafil e naat aur deeni ijtima aisi jaghon par nahi ho saktay jinki waja sai traffic jam na ho…pata nahi kitnay logon ki jaan in jams ki waja sai jati hai….
    app kehtay hain pakistan mai islami nizam nahi hai? kia apko nimaz parhnay ki ijazat nahi?? kia apko tableegh ki bhi ijazat nahi? kia apko neki karnay sai koi rokta hai?/ aur kia apko burrai par majboor kia jata hai..agar app burai kartay hain tou emaan apka kamzor hua………..arab mai even prophet (p.b.u.h) k waqt mai bhi buraian theen aur woh rehti dunya tak rahain gee…saudi arab mai bhi prostitution hai. kia har burai ka ilaj danda utrha kar mashray mai intishar philana hai? kia hum tableegh k zariyay logon k eman nahi badal saktay? kia app tab namaz parhain gai jab sari dunya mai prostitution band ho jayay? plzzzzzzzzzzzz kuch aqal karein…..logon k oper naam kasna tohmat lagana kisi muslim ko zaib nahi deta and two wrongs never make a right…..mush ghalat hai iska matlab yeh nahi hai k ghazi ya har natthu khaira thek hai…jo mush ko oppose kar raha hai woh thek hai…

    by use brains on May 4, 2008 at 1:19 pm

  312. ghazi saab shaheed huay hai

    by shahid on May 5, 2008 at 6:14 pm

  313. use brains

    tumharee logic bekar hai. agar woh pichley saal sai pichley saal prostitution kai khilaf boltey to aap boltey uss sai pichley saal kion nahee bola.

    Kiaa prostitution main apkee koee go-ot phansee hoee hai?

    Jabb hukumraan sotey rahengay, apney faraiz poorey nahee karengay to jo qaum kai gherat-mand hongey woh utheyngey. Zahir hai sotey-hoey logon kai liey to woh gher qanoonee hee hogaa.

    Phir apkey khiaal main sirf Ghazee sahib hee gher qanooni kaam kar rahey they? Baqee to poorey Pakistan main sarey Qanoonee kaam ho rahey hotey hain?

    12 may ko, Altaf Hussain gang nai Karachi ko khoon main nehlaa diaa, woh gher qanoonee nahee thaa???? phir fauj harkat main kion nahee aeee? phir hakoomat kee rit nazar nahee jageee. Mush nai pooree pakistani fauj ko zaleel kardiaa hai Qaum kai samney.

    Nahee masala yai hai kah Muslmanon aur Islami nizam kee jo baat karegaa unko sabaq sikhaney kai liey yai kiaa gaya. Aur uss sai khush kon hoa? jin logon kai dilon main marz hai aur Allah nai unkaa marz aur barhaa diaa.

    Poorey Pakistan ko pata hai MUSH nai kisko khush karney kai liey yai kia.

    Woh din door nahee jab nahtey shahrion per golian barsaney kai ilzaam main MUSH ko phansee hogeee, Insha Allah.

    by samee on May 5, 2008 at 8:20 pm

  314. U hv successfully avoided most of the points given by me. Mush is wrong in many things…..however if somebody is daku and the other a thief and both oppose to each other it does not make one of them correct. Both r wrong
    Ghazi only raised nifaz e shariat slogans when jamia hifza ‘s illegal construction came into question, im not justifying the destruction of any mosque constructed pre partition..islam is not only against prostitutes tht too the female variety only…ajkal males bhi kartay hain.auntie shamim ko target karma tou both asan tha…ghazi sahib nai faiza bad mai mojood baray addon ko nishana kiun nahi banaya aur sirf prostitution hi kiun?????????? Y dint he raised his voice against wani, sawara , sar paisa etc….qanoon tor k aur cda k bandon ko rishwat dai k jamia hifza mai extension kia yeh jannat k ticket hai……… islami nizam ki awaz tou maulana israr ahmad , dr zakir naik aur essay hi dosray both sai ullma / mubaligh bhi kartay hain magar zakat par palnay walay zakat sai weapons lenay walay, aurtain aghwa karnay walay sirf islam ko badnam kartay hain…..yeh sab islam ki arr mai wohi kartay hain jo enlightened moderation k naam pai mush / bush karta hai..inko bhi saza milni chaye aur usko bhi……kia apko maloom hai ghazi sahib nai kitna tax dia?????? Pak ko sanwarnay mai unki kitni contribution hai????? Unka suicide bombings ka ailan tou sab nai tv par sunna hai…jab bomba blast hota hai tou both sai baigunnah bhi maray jatay hain unka khoon kiskay sar hai??lal masjid mai agar koi baigunah mara gia tou uska khoon hakomat k sar hai inn khudkush hamolon mai jinki tableegh ghazi karta tha jo log marray unka khoon kis k sar pai??????sab nai ghazi k biyanat tv par sunnay yeh tou asan kam hai…… k 4/500 yateem aur besahara bachon ko zakat k paisay par palo unki brain washing karo aur phir unko yarghamal bana k hakomat ko black mail karo…islam nabaligh ki shadi ki ijazat nahi deta uski gawahi bhi mustanid nahi…hadees k who rawi jo bachay thay unki ahadees bhi zaeef samjhi jati hain tou ghazi sahib k so called jihad mai inn bachon ka kitna kasoor tha…inki tou sochnay samjhnay ki salahiat hi nahi thi both saun k maa baap bahir mojood thay …beharhal sharmindgi ki bat hai k maulana aziz tou jan bacha kar agia aur both sai bachon aur bachion ko marwa dia.in sab ka khoon ghazi aur aziz k sar par bhi bolay ga!!!!!!!! Kia tableegh deen ko philanay ka tareeqa nahi???????/ dunya mai sab sai tezi sai phailta hua deen islam hai yeh America mai bhi hai aur India mai bhi…kia wahan danday k zor par phail raha hai…jab dil badlain gai aur neyatain saaf hongi tou halat khud bakhud badal jaein gai………GHAZIN K ACTIONS HAR LIHAZ SAI GHALAT HAIN …NA YEH QURAN K MUTABIQ THAY NA HI SUNNAT SAI SABIT HAIN …QANOONI AUR IKHLAKI LIHAZ SAI BHI YEH GHALAT HAI….WOH SIRF PAK KA NAHI BALKAY UMMAT E MUSLIMA KA MUJRIM HAI KIUNKAY ISLAM KO ITNA BADNAM KOI AUR NA KAR SAKA SAWAYAY UNKAY……..CHOR KAFI HAIN MAGAR DEENI CHOR CHEENI CHOR SAI BURRA HOTA HAI….

    by use brains on May 6, 2008 at 11:18 am

  315. Maulana Ghazi Rasheed was a hero of pakistan.He fought and strugle for Islam.I apperiate his sacrifice.

    by nader on May 7, 2008 at 12:24 pm

  316. yes u can “”apperiate”" but only “jahils” can “APPRECIATE” him…..kia ghazi k marnay sai islam mar gia??????? ya uski maut sai islam ko kia faida hua……jaisay i mentioned earlier cheeni chor sai deeni chor burra hota hai…….by the way agar woh boht acha kam kar k gia hai tou app kiun tab aur ab jhak mar rahay hain??????????? danday nahi mil rahay , ya auntie shamim ki kammi hai?????? prostitution bhi khatam ho gaee…..burqa posh lashkar e islam ab kidar naam roshan karay ga islam ka ……..actually tum sab mai gharat, sharam , aqal, fehm aur dimagh ki kami hai!!!!!!!
    LAUGHS OUT LOUD

    by use brains on May 7, 2008 at 10:27 pm

  317. http://lalmasjid.com/vbforum/ use brai jahil pehley pori information hasil karo phir bolana suna audio bayan

    by waqas on May 8, 2008 at 12:49 pm

  318. use brains,

    nahee fil-waqt to tumharey jaisey prostitution kai supporters jeet gaey hain….kamalo kuch din aur..

    Ghazi nai jo kaha uskey liey jaan bhee dedi…mulk kai baqee *ulama* agar halwa-pooree aur biryani khaney main lagey hoey hain to iss main ghazi kaa to qusoor nahee hai.

    Muslmanon main to Islam badnam nahee hoaa, kafiron main hoa to uskee munafiq fikar karain, muslmanon ko fikar karney kee zaroorat nahee hai.

    Abu-jahal and company main bhee islam bohat badnam hoaa hoga jab Muhammad (PBUH) nai islam kaa parcham sarbaland kiaa thaa. Makkah kai kafiron main Islam tab bhee badnam hoaa gaa jab muslmanon nai Abu-Jahal kaa khatmaa kiaa thaa.

    by BolPiareyBol on May 8, 2008 at 6:43 pm

  319. LAUGHS OUT LOUD!!!!!!!!!! SIRF AUR SIRF NARRAY BAZI…….. COULD NOT ANSWER MY SINGLE QUESTION…WHAT A PITTY………. i never support prostitutio0n …lekin agar jawab na ho kisi bat ka tou baat ghuma k ulta marna sab sai asan hai……..
    jo shaks Quran aur sunnat ki ro sai ghalt hai tum logon k support karnay sai kia hoga….answer my questions in the post……. narray bazi is not an answer…….. u hv no answers at all!!!!!!!!!!! i dont justify musharraf par woh islam ka nam laikar wohi kam nahi karta jo ghazi karta hai
    and mr waqas apki jo post hai may3rs wali uss sai oper mujhaid 1 wali post bhi app hi nai likhi hai with two different nicks….. apkay caps on thay jab app nai mujahid wali mail close ki…waqas mai bhi caps on hain…mujhaid wali mail mai throughout u hv spelled ghazi as gazi aur waqas wali post mai bhi spellings yehi hain……
    mujko alhamdulliah information hai har tarh ki lekin i cannot support a sinner…shaheed hona tou boht agay ki cheez hai………
    jinkay pas apni baat ko prove karnay k liyay jawab nahi hotay woh aik dosray par keechar hi ochal saktay hain…i challange again to give answers to my questions….. last yr i used to post on this blog with the nik nauman even at that time nobody could answer….. DEENI CHOR CHEENI CHOR SAI HAR HAL MAI BURRA HAI………

    by use brains on May 9, 2008 at 11:01 am

  320. just a few lines….. at the time of prophet (p.b.u.h) muslims were surrounded by kuffar….at one time the prophet (p.b.u.h) was the only muslim then came the sahabas due to his character and his message.. my prophet(p.b.u.h) never abused any one.never punished anyone without trial or outside the law…islam muslims k liyay nahi aya na hi Quran sirf hum muslims k liyay hai.prophet (p.b.u.h) bhi rehmat ul alameen hain …means for the entire world….the prophet (p.b.u.h) spent only 63 days out of 23 yrs of prophethood in jihad and that jihad was also in accordance with islamic tenets. muft k narray nahi thay…ghazi sahib tou property bacha rahay thay……unki tableeghi khidmat kia hain???????? islami muashray ko bananay k liyay aghwa aur weapons uthanay k ilawa kia naik kam kia???????? madrissa woh zakat sai chalatay thay……. tankhwa ussi ghair sharee aur unislamic hakoomat sai letay thay……unki contribution kia hai saway bachon ki brain washing k…..hadees mai jihad k liyay bhi maa baap ki permission zarori hai…..kia unkay pass yeh permission thi???? dosra yeh kesa jihad hai jo apnay hi muslims bhai sai kia jayay ….marnay walay fauji kia muslims nahi thay???????? mai ghazi sahib k muslim honay ko challange nahi karta lekin unka tarz e amal sunnat ya quran sai sabit nahi…..
    dr zakir , maulana israr , maulana tariq jamil etc ki tableegh sai najanay kitnay log emaan layay hongay…unn mai sai koi islam ki ghalat tasweer paish nahi karta…iss liyay log asar qabool kartay hain….ghazi sahib k criminal acts sai konsay kafir mulim hongay…..iss chez ki fikar har muslim ko honi chahye…..
    APP NAI HALWAY POORI, BIRYANI KI BAAT KI…AGAR APP GHAZI K ITNAY BARAY SUPPORTER HAIN AUR USKO SAHEEH JANTAY HAIN TOU KIA WAJA HAI K APP NAI GHAZI SAHIB KA SATH NAHI DIA????????/AB NARRAY BAZI SAI INTISHAR KIUN PHILATAY HAIN.
    AGAIN……… DEENI CHOR CHEENI CHOR SAI HAR HAL MAI BURRA HAI………

    by use brains on May 9, 2008 at 8:22 pm


  321. APP NAI HALWAY POORI, BIRYANI KI BAAT KI…AGAR APP GHAZI K ITNAY BARAY SUPPORTER HAIN AUR USKO SAHEEH JANTAY HAIN TOU KIA WAJA HAI K APP NAI GHAZI SAHIB KA SATH NAHI DIA????????/AB NARRAY BAZI SAI INTISHAR KIUN PHILATAY HAIN.

    ….bhi sath dey to rahey hain unkey liey nahee to kiaa tumhain defend kar rahey hain, in posts sai?…

    kiaa aap Alzheimer ka marz hai yaa ADD kaa?

    To apkey mutabiq to Yazeed sahee thaa aur Hazrat Hussain (RTU) ghalat they. MUSH nai wahee kaam kiaa hai jo Yazeed nai kiaa thaa.

    by BolPiareyBol on May 9, 2008 at 9:42 pm

  322. who is telling u to defend him????????? if u genuinely believe that his cause was righteous n islamic y dint u join him in lal masjid?????if not at tht time continue his noble work now…….wats stopping u frm doing it?????? just cheap emotionalism !!!!!

    my belief is that he was wrong…its proven from Quran n sunnat so i will not follow him…….his call for jihad was unislamic so i wont be a part of it….. kidnapping any women is not allowed in islam…holy prophet never abducted even a non muslim for guidance or watever u say……he never stored any kind of weapon in the mosque……he never killed a fellow muslim….never burnt public property….. but MR GHAZI HAS DONE ALL OF THIS AND MORE…

    read all my posts above n identify where i hv supported musharraf???????????????????? if one is wrong the other cannot b automatically right…….musharaff shd be punished for his deeds…..i never said tht he is innocent……. musharraf will defintely be answerable to Allah for the loss of innocent lives and his other mistakes…….same is true for ghazi……..ghazi is shaheed just like benazir……people call benazir shaheed too …how funny!!!!!!!!!

    u never told me abt his religious contributions…this topi dramma is excluded……..people know maulana israr, zakir naik, maulana tariq jameel, ghamdi etc etc….but nobody knew before lal mosque abt ghazi abdul rasheed………

    there is no justification for ghazi’s actions and u can only defend him in two lines i.e

    1. ghazi abdul was a shaheed as he worked for islam.
    2. musharraf is kafir and ur munafiq so ghazi abdul rasheed is shaheed.

    LAUGHS OUT LOUD!!!!!!!!!

    by use brains on May 10, 2008 at 10:47 am

  323. use brains = ADD patient

    bhi agar pakistan sai bahir kaheen job kartey ho to tumharee company health insurance to detee hogee? kiaa dimagh kaa ilaj cover nahee kartey woh???

    Ghazi ko choro apnee fikar kaaro, kaheen tumhara marz la-ilaaj naa ho-jaey.

    by karachiWala on May 11, 2008 at 4:10 am

  324. shaid ghazi k tamam mannay walay sirf ilzam tarashian , taunts aur fazool goi hi kar saktay hain KIUNKAY APP K PASS GHAZI KO SAHEEH SABIT KARNAY K LIYAY KISI KISAM KI KOI DALEEL NAHI HAI….
    MUJHAY BURRA BHALLA KEHNAY SAI GHAZI SAHIB K ACTIONS TOU THEEK NAHI HO JATAY LEKIN AGAR APKI KHUShI ISSI MAI HAI AUR ISS SAI APKO DILI SAKOON HASIL HOTA HAI TOU SHOQ JARI RAKHYE….

    LAUGHS OUT LOUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I TOLD U THEY HV NO JUSTIFICATIONS….baat phir wahin aa jati hai k

    ” DEENI CHOR CHEENI CHOR SAI HAR HAL MAI BURRA HAI”…….

    by use brains on May 11, 2008 at 4:26 am

  325. shaid ghazi k tamam mannay walay sirf ilzam tarashian , taunts aur fazool goi hi kar saktay hain KIUNKAY APP K PASS GHAZI KO SAHEEH SABIT KARNAY K LIYAY KISI KISAM KI KOI DALEEL NAHI HAI….
    MUJHAY BURRA BHALLA KEHNAY SAI GHAZI SAHIB K ACTIONS TOU THEEK NAHI HO JATAY LEKIN AGAR APKI KHUShI ISSI MAI HAI AUR ISS SAI APKO DILI SAKOON HASIL HOTA HAI TOU SHOQ JARI RAKHYE….

    ***good attempt to avoid my questions and the topic!!!!!!! appreciated!!!!!!!!!! bhai ghazi hai kon???? last yr sai pehlay usko janta bhi koi nahi tha……… kidar tableegh hoti thi??????????? kon suntta tha??????????? lal masjid students…………. mashallah……….. kia prophet(p.b.u.h) nai danday k zor par islam philaya????????????????

    LAUGHS OUT LOUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I TOLD U THEY HV NO JUSTIFICATIONS….baat phir wahin aa jati hai k

    ” DEENI CHOR CHEENI CHOR SAI HAR HAL MAI BURRA HAI”…….

    by use brains on May 11, 2008 at 4:36 am

  326. Hazrat Abdul rashid Ghazi Shaheed(r.a) ka khalaf bolany wala tum musshraf ki NAJAYAZ son ho.kafer ho shia ho kafer kafer shia kafer.

    by raja on May 13, 2008 at 9:08 am

  327. Rajaa Saab

    Are you not insulting Mr. Ghazi by supporting him and at the same time abusing others specially people from shia sect.

    And one thing i fail to understand that why people in defence of Mr. Ghazi start criticizing and abusing Musharraf. First clear up your mind: whcih person you want to discuss here. a wrong does not make the other wrong right.

    If uou are a student of Ghazi, then Ghazi Sahib should have taught you to be tolerant with people of different sects and religions.

    I think that army action in Lal Masjid could have been avoided but army under pressure from media took a hasty decision. However, Mr. Ghazi and his friends were given so many days to come out but i dont know what compelled them not to come out.

    by Ordinary Pakistani on May 13, 2008 at 5:17 pm

  328. i just hate freedom of speech becoz of people like raja

    by MALIK AMAN on May 13, 2008 at 5:56 pm

  329. AGREED!!!!!!
    ……………………..Freddom of speech and expression is accomnied with responsibilities. All behavior is controlled by responsibility of mind and action. Ghazi’s actions can only b termed as
    IRESPONSIBLE AND CRIMINAL!!!!!!!

    by use brains on May 15, 2008 at 1:08 pm

  330. Shaheed tum say yee keh rahay hain lahoo humara bhula na deena
    kasam hay tum koo ayee sarfarooshoon adhoo humara bhula na deena
    hay deen ka dushman humara dushman
    woo izatoon ka lutera dushman
    lahoo main bheegay dareeda anchal
    kasam hay tum koo bhula na deena
    shaheed tum say yee keh rahay hain
    lahoo humara bhula na deena

    Yee Ujra Gulshan Weeran Galiyan
    yee Jaltay Baagh aur Udaas Kaliyan
    humari maoon kay behtay ansoon
    kasam hay tum koo bhula na deena

    jinhoon nay gulshan kay phool maslay
    haseeen chaman ki hain kaliyaan roondi
    woo haath paoon hee kaat daloo
    yee farz apna bhula na deena

    WAZOO HUM APNAY LAHOO SAY KAR KAY
    KHUDA KAY HAAN SURKH ROO HAIN THAHRAY
    HUM AHAD APNA NIBHA CHALAY HAIN
    TUM AHAD APNA BHULA NA DEENA

    shaheed tum say yee keh rahay hain lahoo humara bhula na deena

    by adnan danish on May 23, 2008 at 3:26 pm

  331. WAH WAH WAH ….BOHT ALLA SHAIRI HAI

    by USE BRAINS on May 28, 2008 at 12:22 pm

  332. oh allah ki lanat hy tum par jo halak kehteh ho one
    allah ki lanat hy musharaf ko dorost kehne walon par

    by himat hy muj se bat karneh ki on May 29, 2008 at 5:03 pm

  333. achaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa……thanks for ur kind information……….aur apni category bhi maloom kar lain????? Allah nai apko wahi bhaiji thi k kis par lanat hai aur kis par nahi???????????

    by USE BRAINS on May 30, 2008 at 12:36 pm

  334. shaheed hamisha zinda rahta hayyyyyyyyyyyyy.allah ke lathi bay awaz hay….zulm karnay walay allah lo pusnd nahi.wo admi jis nay kise ek insan ka khoon kia us nay sary insaniat ka khoon kia.ghazi rasheed shaheed zinda hain.

    by samra rasool on Jun 13, 2008 at 8:13 pm

  335. Ghazi Sahab SHAHEED hannnnnn La shaq haza nafar Shaheed

    by malik mansoor on Jun 14, 2008 at 1:04 pm

  336. farsh-e-makhmal pe ayy sone walo…
    tumhe qabar main sona pare ga….
    apne aamaal ka jaiyza lo..
    warna qabar main roona pare ga…

    Ghazi sb k bare main bure kehne se app log apne app ko dekh lo..aur kuch nahi kehna mujhey….mujhey tu hansi aati hai us per jo lal masjid walon ko bura kehte hain….

    by adnan danish on Jun 16, 2008 at 4:27 pm

  337. I think the people of Red mosque literally known as Hifza brigade they tried to change our society culture which destroyed us over past 50 years but u know it takes time to bring such a revolution in your society i think we need such more Brigade in order to build our society on pillars of honesty loyalty like that and about Shaheed and Hallak i will say it obvious that Moulana Abdul Rasheed Ghazi is Shaheed just because of one and simple Reason which is that He sacrifices his life For Islam not for money Status Bank balance.in spite of knowing that he might be killed
    May you soul rest in eternal peace

    by Raja waseem Ahmed on Jun 17, 2008 at 11:54 am

  338. utha k phaink do bahir galli mai
    lal masjid k saray ganday thay anday
    chor detay jo unko tom khulla sarak par
    martay phirtay woh sabko danday hi danday
    marrnay walon mai shamil jahan k nikamay
    kartay yeh gand hota monday ya sunday
    sad shukar kuch Allah k bandon nai baira uthaya
    jahan ko phir min janib allah bolaya
    jhotay jihadi thay burqay mai saray
    k jurrat to dekho k aurat bana k
    kahan ki sahriat k khusray ya banday
    saheeh hai lal masjid k ganday thay anday

    KHAS KAM JAHAN PAK!!!!

    by USE BRAINS on Jun 20, 2008 at 5:17 pm

  339. adnan danish apko hansnay ka aik aur nadir moka faraham kia gia…….plz laugh out loud

    by USE BRAINS on Jun 20, 2008 at 5:23 pm

  340. No doubt it a greatest sucfice of Muslim world, we hope that in future again it sucfice will be repeated when this nation need it, Islam zinda hoota hay haar karbla kay bahd. hamari tareekh assey hee bhat see qurbanun say bhrey pari hay/

    by Liala on Jun 24, 2008 at 2:05 pm

  341. USE BRAINS…shame on you…i m sure you r not a Muslim….
    feeling sorry for you…..ALLAH se dua karon ga k app ko Maaf kar day….jo batain tum kar rahay ho..i m afraid ALLAH tumhe kabhi maaf nahi karre ga……

    han mujhe hansi aa rahi hai…TUM per…..aur affsos bhi ho raha hai…

    F U

    by adnan danish on Jun 24, 2008 at 5:28 pm

  342. yehi tou kharabi hai ghazi k followers mai k woh ghazi k ilawa sabko non muslims samjhtay hain…..bhaijan hum ghazi nko kafir hargiz nahi kehtay…na apko kahun ga….lekin unkay siyasi drammay ko islami rang bhi nahi donga………

    apko mujh par hansi aai …boht shukriya k mai apko khusha karnai ki waja bana……afsos ghazi sahib k actions dekh kar jo unhon nai islam ki arr mai kiyay aur logon ki nasamjhi aur naqis aqal par waqai hota hai…i totally agree

    zaroor allah sai meri mafi ki dua kijye ga …sath mai ghazi aur uskay followers nai jo gunnah kiyay haina unki sifarish bhi allah k hazoor kar dijeyay ga….

    apki surety k tou kia hi kehnay…….debatable issue……

    hahaha

    waqai lal masjid k shaheedon(hehehehehe) sai pehlay na tou log namaz parthay thay,na muslim thay ab boht fark par gia hai…………..plz suicide bombings karain takay mukamal islami shariat nafiz ho……….aur poori dunya mai masjid ka, darhi ka, burqay ka aur islam ka nam aur roshan karein…i appreciate…….. liala g pakistan ko islami shariat k nifaz k liyay apkay danday ki,aur jan ki zarorat hai….dont hesitate danda uthain , aurtain aghwa karein, aag lagain, banday marain,,,,,,,aur islam ka nam ain shariat k mutabik roshan kartay huway apni jan ki qurbani dai dein………iskay bad hum apkay nam par bhi blog zaroor banayein gai……..aur apko bhi apka qadardan isi tarah jazbatiat ka shikar ho kar yad karein gai……

    waisay hi pakistan mai president sai lai k har natthu khairu ko apnay tamashay dikhanay ka shok chara hua hai……app bhi dikha laein…enjoyment hi ho jayay ge aur adnan danish bhai aur unn jaisay bohat sai muslims behn bhai khush hi ho jayein gai

    hahahahahaha

    by USE BRAINS on Jun 25, 2008 at 12:20 pm

  343. chal kafir ke ulad,randi maa ke bachay use brain apni behan ko hira mandia mat chora kar kuttiya ke bachay

    by use brains on Jul 2, 2008 at 12:15 am

  344. Allah apko naik hidayat dai…….ghazi sahib ka name kafi roshan kar rahay hain app……

    hahahahaha

    by USE BRAINS,nauman on Jul 2, 2008 at 3:13 pm

  345. adnan danish brother…….at long last u hv seen the light…congratulations

    by USE BRAINS,nauman on Jul 3, 2008 at 7:44 pm

  346. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K33hfhiw3g&feature=r...- 74k

    by adnan danish on Jul 3, 2008 at 10:31 pm

  347. who said thiz…
    may be i posted the wrong URL….i thnk so….

    by adnan danish on Jul 4, 2008 at 4:20 pm

  348. han bas sach pata bhi chal jayay tou jhutla do……molvi thek Quran sunnat ko choro…url bhi app nai khud hi bataya not me

    hahaha

    by USE BRAINS,nauman on Jul 4, 2008 at 9:37 pm

  349. sorry sab se mei galti pe tha mujhe maf kar dei.islam zindabad gazi zindabad.

    by USE BRAINS,nauman on Jul 5, 2008 at 12:15 am

  350. ghazi k saray followers waqai jhootay hain……apnay teacher ki tarh…………
    oper wala msg is not mine……yeh small(caps) use brains july 2 walay hazrat hain jinko gandi galian nikal k chain nahi aya tou mera nick use kar k message bana rahay hain…….

    GHAZI K SUPPORTERS AISI HI GIRRI HUI HARKATEIN KAR SAKTAY HAIN……………QURAN SUNNAT OR LOGIC SAI TOU YEH SAB BAHIR HAIN………

    KAL GHALTI SAI DANISH BHAI SACH BOL GAYAY TOU BAD MAI MUKAR GAYAY……………

    ISS BLOG PAR ABHI TAK JO BHI GHAZI KA SUPPORTER NAHI HAI YEH GHATIA HATHKANDAY PAISH NAHI KIAY……

    MULTIPLE POSTS BHI YEHI DAIN GAI, GALIAN BHI, NICKS COPY KAR K BHI
    SHAME ON GHAZI ABDUL RASHEED AND HIS SUPPORTERS

    LOLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ…..hahaha

    by noman on Jul 5, 2008 at 10:08 am

  351. assalamoalikum well use brains allah knows who was on right path.u should care for your self.where did u live in pakistan i think if u meet me then i will told u the right story so iam waiting for your reply

    by waqas on Jul 5, 2008 at 1:42 pm

  352. use brains i will answer all of your questions one by one start questioning

    by waqas on Jul 5, 2008 at 1:48 pm

  353. aoa waqas
    definitely only Allah knows tht who is on the rite path… but he has given us the Quran n sunnat as the ultimate guiding principles of life…….

    my questions are the same as the ones posted by nauman and ordinary pakistani……..scroll above and read…….thanks

    by noman on Jul 6, 2008 at 11:37 am

  354. SalamzZZZ

    JO ho gaya So Ho gaya…
    ab Comments daynay ka faheda???
    any way
    Any 1 Send me imran khan’z mobile Number?
    My Number is
    03454056831
    +923454056831
    i am Rehman
    From lahore Pak

    by Rehman1235 on Jul 7, 2008 at 10:08 am

  355. ghazi shab ko kisi ny halak kaha to os k pc men sy tamam data ghayab ho jaye ga last woring hy sab k leye
    i am a biggest hacker ab koi b one halak mat kaye warna apna pc tabah karneh k leye tayar raho
    jo on ko halak keh rahe ho wo sab kafir hen kafir
    lanti hen

    by ghazi shaeed zinda bad musharraf murdabad on Jul 7, 2008 at 8:24 pm

  356. y do i find tht all ghazi supporters are petty criminals tht is chore uchakay / hackers……kia ghazi sahib nai Quran aur sunnat se yehi seekha aur sikhaya hai

    WAQAS PEHLAY INN JAISAY LOGON KO TOU SAMJHAIN K GHAZI SAHIB KI SHARIAT THI KIA…..DOSRON KO NUKSAN POHNCHANA?????????? basically unki philosphy sirf blackmailing thi………..ab yahan bhi yehi kuch hai…..

    ghazi rasheed halak nahi hua tha woh apni zid , bawaqoofi aur ego k hathon MAR gia……

    by noman on Jul 7, 2008 at 10:23 pm

  357. noman bhai sab aik jesay nehi hotay kuch gazi ke supporters jhotay hotay hain kuch achay sachay hotay hain aap ko pori bat malom nehin hai.media jhot bolta hai aap questions dobara copy paste kardien.mein apara mei parhta tha mujhe pata hai kya hwa hai.

    by waqas on Jul 9, 2008 at 1:20 pm

  358. ghazi shaeed zinda bad musharraf murdabad …..gud yaar…..
    ye log samjhte hi nahi hain…….
    in sab k saath aisa hi hona chahaye…..

    nouman tum tameez se baat karo……is tarha ki batain kar k tum apne gunnah zaida kar rahay ho…..

    lal masjid main jo bhi SHAHEED huay ..wo tu ALLAH ka han kaamyaab ho gaye hain…..ab tum apni fikar karo…

    WAZOO HUM APNAY LAHOO SAY KAR KAY
    KHUDA KAY HAAN SURKH ROO HAIN THAHRAY
    HUM AHAD APNA NIBHA CHALAY HAIN
    TUM AHAD APNA BHULA NA DEENA…..

    by adnan danish on Jul 9, 2008 at 4:25 pm

  359. waqas
    apkay pass bhi second hand knowledge hai …abpara mai parhnay sai app ki info authentic kaisay ho jati hai? mai musharraf ko defend nahi kar raha lekin islam k unn thaikaidaron par zaroor aitraz hai jo masjid ki arr mai apnay interest k liyay apni gandi harkaton sai islam ko badnam kartay hain……..abduction, burning public property, slandering etc etc agar QWuran aur sunnat sai sabit hain tou zaroor bateyay ga

    _______________________________________

    adnan danish
    apki guftgopo tameez aur thzeeb k dairay sai bahir hai.dosron ko kafir kehna, galian nikalna aur danday ki zor par criminals aur crminal minded logon ki support karna apkay nazdeek waqai sawab aur akhrat mai nijat ka bais hai ….if so then ur highly mistaken………
    meri zaat ko jab bhi nuksan hoga Allah ki marzi shamil e hal ho gi……allah mujhay razi ba raza honay ki taufeek dai aur shar angaizon k shar sai mehfooz rakho……..app kis bat par khush ho rahay hain k woh uper walay hazrat boht deeni kam kar rahay hain………shahid ghazi aur app jaisay log ioslam ko criminals ka religion banana chtay hain………aisi fazool goi aur ghatia narraybazi sai na mai darta hun na impress hota hun but aik chez zaroor hoti hai…..lekin afsos ka mukam yeh hai k app k pass ghazio k actions ko defend karnay liyay koi sunnat, ayat ya logic nahi
    GHAZI WAS A GHUNDA N KILLED BY SECURITY FORCES FOR HIS CRIME FOR HIS CRIME

    LOLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    by noman on Jul 9, 2008 at 5:34 pm

  360. jab app koi bura kaam hotay dekho tu us ko phly haath se roko…na rok sako tu zaban se roko…phr bhi na rok paao to dil main bura janu…..per ye sab se nichla darja hai….
    so app un k tareeqay kar ko ghalt nahi keh sakte…jab islam ne keh dia..tu app kon hotay ho…..

    by adnan danish on Jul 10, 2008 at 4:58 pm

  361. please prove tht ghazi and his team had done all his actions according to sunnah…prophet (p.b.u.h) preached islam by word of mouth i.e tableegh………aside from jamia hifza where did ghazi performed such an act….

    plz prove nowzubillah , abduction, slander, setting fire, killing muslims , illegal construction, weapons in mosques from sunnat

    the prophet (p.b.u.h) paid for all the mosque constructed in the early days…..he was not member of any qabza group….like many of our molvis

    including u how many on this blog are using Quran / sunnat as their guidelines……..mostly ghazi supporters use abusive language and call ppl kafir….u also do the same.

    app ki kahi hui hadees k mutabiq ghazi sahib ko issi tarh rokna chahye tha jaisa govt nai roka …burai ko hath sai roknay ka hi hukm hai…..

    Quran says….deen mai jabar nahi….

    by noman on Jul 10, 2008 at 9:47 pm

  362. Government’s Vice department should have controlled those brothels, chaklas and ” beauty parlours ” of Islamabad.

    But how could they finish such places when MNAs and MPAs , Army officers and government officers themselves were among clients of those chaklas and brothels.

    Musharraf tried his best to convert Pakistan into an international Chakla .

    Above poster Noman is a Qadiani in disguise.

    by spectator on Jul 11, 2008 at 4:17 am

  363. who was caught frm chinese massage parlour????????

    waqas and anyother who was interested in telling me shd first tell these muslim brothers wat mr ghazi was trying to do

    i told u his supporters can only abuse and nothing else……….but tht does not make mr ghazi correct…..

    this is so funny!!!!!!!!!!

    thts wat ghazi was preaching and thts wat his followers were learning

    QUIET OBVIOUS

    holy prophet(p.b.u.h) never abused any body and never used foul language so MY RESPECTED BROTHERS I CANNOT MATCH U IN UR CHOICE OF DIRTY , FILTHY LANGUAGE ALLEGATIONS

    lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    by noman on Jul 11, 2008 at 9:03 am

  364. noman bhai app ke islam ke taleem kam hai deen mei jabar nehin is ayat se pehley history dekho yeh ayat sirf zabardasti kisi nonmuslim ko islam mei dakhel karne se rokney ke liyeh hai raha hadees burae dekho hath se roko.aap se sawal hai kya hazrat abubaker sadiq ra ne un musalmano ke khilaf jihad nehin kiya jo zakat na detay thay???? socho parho islam kya kehta hai.chinese parlour par shujat hussain jata tha aur bhi wazir jatay thay.rahi baat mei apara mei partha tha is liyeh kyoun ke sara operation hamlogo ke samne hwa meray college ke 70 percent larke lalmasjid ke samne rehtay thay mere nani amma g 6 near lalmasjid rehtey hain aur antishammem dalal aurat the sab ko pata tha.aur lalmasjid kherqanoni zamen par nehin bane tabhi aap ko keh raha hoon aap ko pori information nehin hai.jamiah hafsa aur 7 shaheed masjid cda ne khod aprove ke thein.1 masjid jo hakomat ne shaheed ke 100 years purani thi name masjid ammerhamza islamabad baney se pehley ke masjid the wo.aur lalmasjid walo ne kon se property jalae wo samne wali building ke baat ap kartay ho to wahan tu rangers ne position sambhale hwe the aljazea prog witness dekho phir pata chalay ga.1 aur question aap ne kiya ke weapons in mosque.hazrat muhammad saw ke zamanay mei masjid mei teerandazi ke mashq hwa kartey the us zamanay mei arrow bhi hatayar thay tu jab hazrat muhammad saw teerandazi ke practise karwa sakte hain aur sahaba ko trainig de jasakte the tu ab kyoun nehin.islam aap ko defend karney ke ijazat deta hai.allah quran mei farmate hai jitney zayate tum par ke gae ho tum bhi utni zaite karsakty ho par us se zaida na karna.6 july conference mei 50 thousand log islamabad ayeh kya sab pagal hai agay dekho islam kaisey raij hota hai.hakomat ne tu sazae maut khtm karde yanni allah ka kanon tor ke allah ke rit ko challenge kardia hai.

    by waqas on Jul 12, 2008 at 1:17 am

  365. noman bhai koi faisal karney se pehley aap lalmasjid ka moakif sun lein phir aap ko haq hoga bolnay ka audia bayan all jumah aap ko lalmasjid ya jamiah hafsa ke website se milay ga

    by waqas on Jul 12, 2008 at 1:28 am

  366. Noman Qadiani or asteen kay saanp

    No body here is a follower of Ghazi sahib,

    We are followeres of one Allah and one Rasool (saw ).

    ” Chakla ” is the proper word for massage parlours.

    I know for sure that most of the filthy rich Qadianis of Islamabad and Pindi area are clients of such Chaklas or brothels..

    Most of the rich Qadianis of Islamabad drink alcohol or sharab and they are not practicing Islam.

    You don’t have to tell us what Islam is and what Lal masjid was doing.

    There are reports that Qadiani women entered Lal Masjid and they provoked both government and Lal Masjid to kill each other.

    And your cheap hhahhaahahaha ..and LOLzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    ” Khisiani billi khanba Nunchay ”

    Get lost you chalak madari.

    by spectator on Jul 12, 2008 at 1:37 am

  367. without any cause u hv accused me of little knowledge abt religion…….typical molvis tactic………u hv chosen to put me rite but hv convieniently avoided all those on this blog who use abusive language n call ppl qadiani or kafir……..u hv also chosen to avoid all my accusations…..

    1. abduction and slander…….u hv still not quoted an ayat aur sunnat proving kidnapping and tohmat……hazrat abu baksr sadik was the head of state n govt.his action was tht of a ruler and carried state authority……u may name a sahaba who in presence of govt acted as per his own will, built a mosque, abducted women and killed ppl inside it

    2.u said tht the building was occupied by rangers…maybe all pakistani tv channels were lying when they reported n showed videos of u ppl burning n breaking the building…..ghazi was also involved in burning melody cinema after azim tariq;s death…….

    3. the govt act of destroying old mosques was wrong but in trying to save jamia hifza most of which was illegally constructed…ghazi sahib held entire isb hostage…

    4.who gave ghazi sahib the authority to do sduch acts….only 50000 ppl according to u gathered in the recent conference.news papers put the strength at 12000…. but in the recent elections almost 12000 votes were cast…none frm jamia hifza n lal masjid were elected…most of the ppl of isb do not support u extremist……..the fact is lal masjid is the best chanda generating mosque in isb…….the same zakat sadka and khairat used for bullets, hand guns by ghazi…..now ppl are trying to inherit this franchise…….

    5. lal masjid and jamia hifza along with 100;s of madrissas were funded by cia money specifically for the afghan jihad….america k paisay khanay walay hamay islam batayein gai?????????the only reason the place was not targeted by govt earlier was coz of ghazi’s link with the isi n other intelligence agencies……..his connections with sipah sihaba are well known…..this org is again extremist in its views…however just by living across the street u claim to b a know all…….u must hv then heard of the preechings in lal mosque promoting suicide bombings………….these were aired on tv aswell……..n yet u support them

    6.the responsibility to punish lies with the state..jungle ka kanoon nahi hai………

    7. as per news papers the man caught frm the parlour was the brother of an mma mna……..secondly ghazis followers are neither the police nor the law nor do they hv religios authority……..nor they were elected so they cannot represent any segment of the society……

    8. many ppl died inside the lal mosque…..were there parents asked before involving them in so called jihad?????? y were so many parents outside begging ghazi to release their children…..

    9. y did maulana burqa n umme hassan run frm jihad……y ghazi atb the end was begging for safe passage???????????/

    a lot of contradictions

    by noman on Jul 12, 2008 at 3:12 pm

  368. Noman ,

    How I caught that you are a clever Qadiani, and how simple was Waqas that just because you had a Muslim name ” Noman ” , he called you ” a brother “.

    Basically you are trying to chew on simple people of Lal Masjid , you are trying to bite on their self esteem by saying that most of the activities of Ghazi sahib were illegal.

    They are simple people , they cannot reach to your and your Jamaat’s cleverness , but I tell you that they are registered with the government of Pakistan , just like your Ahmadiyya Charity is registered with various governments of Pakistan.

    May I ask you what is the legality of Musharraf to become president of a Muslim country like Pakistan.

    He himself admitted that he is a Sharabi , Zani and he sleeps with dogs and he even doesn’t know how to say Namaz or read Quran properly.

    Will you tell us the legality of various Sharabi and dog loving bureaucrats of Islamabad that how they did ” qabza ” on the resources and real estate of Pakistan ..??

    May I ask you Noman that what is the legality of your clever Delhiwala Mirzas to collect 50 million dollars (300 crore rupees ) Chanda or charity money every year..

    If any body ask about audit or expenses report then he is kicked out of your jamaat and some times kidnapped or killed .

    Lal masjid people were homeless and pennyless citizens of Pakistan , whose generals and bureaucrats and Pirs and Mirzas are among richest people of this world.

    They are simple people , but they will learn your tactics one day and they will expose your dirty activities one day.

    And stop shedding these crocodile tears for Pakistan and keep on whining in front of your Western masters that Mullahs call you Kafir.

    It was your Jamaat who called all Muslims as Kafir , and when it was established in the national assembly of 1974 that Qadiani books consider all Muslims as Kafirs , then that Assembly declared you as Kafirs but still you people have billion dollar properties in Islamabad and Pakistan and you gather there all the time to conspire against simple Pakistanis.

    by spectator on Jul 13, 2008 at 3:32 am

  369. spectator…………..ur comments match the mental approach by all lal masjid supporters…i.e all those with us are muslims and all those against are kafir/qadiyani/jew etc

    this intolerant mindset has given rise to extremism all over the world…….normally i try to avoid personal attacks or take it in a very light manner…alhamdulliah im not a qadiyani marzaee etc etc however ur act of blaming me as a muslim in disguise will inshallah be challanged in the akhrat…….as far as ur comments regarding musharraf are concerned im not going to defend him or many of his illegal acts…however i hv the right to question any chor daku lutaira who hides behind the name of islam for his personal interests…..

    u called lal masjid walas a simple n innocent ppl..CORRECT …thtsy they were fooled by ghazi rasheed and his criminal fellows…..my question remains unanswered……prove ghazi correct in the light of Quran n sunnat……

    u hv quoted/accused musharraf as zani, sharabi etc etc………even if correct do u hv 4 witnesses or refernce authorities under islamic law to prove ur point..if so y such a strong muslim as urself not go to court or public with these allegations…..

    despite claiming to be a true pakistani, staunch muslim who prays 5 times a day, reads Quran , the language used by u does not befit a good human being…wat to talk of a gud muslim

    my knowlege abt marzaees is nill therefore i cannot comment abt their religion……ur accusations regarding the beurocrats/polititions maybe true but the same can be said abt ghazi…he also shd be categorised as part of the land mafia and the filth of pakistan

    i hope tht next time u come up with a comment u would follow the norms of decency and manners associated with gud muslims….(amen)

    by noman on Jul 13, 2008 at 3:28 pm

  370. MASHALLAH

    APP NAI JO ZUBAN ISTIMAL KI YA GALIAN NIKALI YEH qURAN K HUKM K MUTABIK HAI?

    SUNNAT SAI KOI AISI MISAL MILTI HAI ?

    FALANA SHD DO THT N SOME ONE SHD DO THT TOU CHORAIN PEHLAY APP BATAYEIN K APKI TARBIAT YA SCHOOLING MAI KIUN ITNI KAMI REH GAEE K APP ITNI ALLA PAYAY KI LANGUAGE USE KAR RAHAY HAIN……………

    by noman on Jul 14, 2008 at 9:39 pm

  371. hahah noman again u didnt have any knowledge.i think u r not living in islamabad.islamabad ppls elected nawaz sharifs anjum akil khan because he is suporter of lalmasjid and he was present on lalmasjid conference. according to hadees bukhari and almuslim if anyone see some wrongdoings he should stop it by hand if he has enough eman but if he dont have enough eman he should stop them by saying and 3rd is keep quiting which can be adopted when u havent strong eman.so gazi stop brothel madam anti shammem.
    2nd baat ke anti shahmeem pi tehmut agar lagai hai wo kehtii hai tehmut hai tu wafaki shari adalat mei makadma chalaya jata tu phir pata chalta us par us ne mafi mang le.agar ap islamabad mei hotay tu app ko h 8 markaz ke samne abhi bi anti shameem ka ghar dekhata hoon wo meray dost ke ghar ke sath rehte hai allah ke qasam.2nd aap media reports dekh lien 15 sal se anti shammem brothel khulay hwe they geo walay ary walay saray jhotay hain kya muhalay walay bhi jhotay hain kya wo sachi hai. aap ke italah ke liyeh araz hai lalmasjid hakomat ne zia dor mei banaye the tu goverment ne bania gazi sahib ne thori bania hai jo keh rahay ho.sath jammia hafsa 1992 mei bana shuru hwa tha wo bhi sarkar ke ijazat se.tu app kon se masjid ke baat kartay ho
    2nd gazi ne cinema jalaya boht acha kiya mera bas chalay poray pakistan ke cinema ko jalaon kyoun ke yeh gher islami hai.tv chanels wallay sach bhi boltay hai aljazera mei bhi kaha ke yahan rangers ne positin sambhale hwe the then ….
    3rd purani masjid hakomat nehin gira rahe the aap khud socho islamabad mei total kitne masjid hain 90 masjid ke list hakomat ne tiar ke shaheed karnay ke liyeh tu baki kya bach gaya pehley he kummah ko jagah nehin hote.agar masjid purani hogae the tu 1 charch bhi purana ho gaya hai near blue area wala wo girana tha hakomat ne phir brabar ke bat hote,
    4- allah give authority to gazi shahib and us to stop any wrong doings by hand.2nd pml nawaz won election in punjab due to lalmasjid and your pml defeated all over pakistan due to operation.ch pervez elahi and shekh rasheed said
    that we was defeated due to lalmasjid issue haaaa lol.
    5 american cia was giving money for mujahideens it is true but gazi sahib pehley bhi jihad kiya ab bhi taliban ke liyeh awaz uthae hakomat ke tarah nehin rang badla.islam aap ne quran hadees se sekhna hai.isi ke sath thalok hota tu operation na hota yeh aap ne ilzam lagayah sipha sahaba ke sath thaolok hai lekin sucide bombing jaiz nehi hai hakomat ne pehley khud kaha 1965 paki fauj tanks ke nechay akar khudkush hamlay kiyeh brb pul tabah wo kya tha sab bakwas tha khudkushi haram hai police par khud kush hamla jo conference mei hwa wo bhi cia ne karwaya.
    6 aap islam ko jangal ka kanon kaho tu allah he hafiz.
    7 islam aap ko ijazat deta hai tu police walay kya hakomat kya sab kuch nehin hakomat tu allah ke hai.mma ke wazir bhi atay hongay lekin mma kon kehta hai achi hai sab bura kehtay hai yahan tak ke lalmasjid walay bhiiii.islam mei khilafat hai yeh jamhori nizam bakwas hai allah ne jo nizam diya hai khilafat ka usi par amal hona chahia ham jamhori nizam ko nehi mantay
    8 aap ke italah ke liyeh araz hai ke ab aap dekhein jab media zahr ugul raha ho masjid ke undar gher mulki hai masjid ke under surong hain aur pata nehin kya kya bakwas tu saf zahir hai parents ko jhot pataya jhayeh tu unho ne yahe kehna hai ab jab operation ho gayah hai tu aaj dekho parents kya kehtay hai agar lalmasjid confernce mei tum hotay tu pata chalta tumhain students khud keh rahay h
    ai ke ham ko kisi ne yargamal nehin banaya tu bat he khatm.
    9 good question gazi sab was not terrorist unho ne kaha ke media ke samne sara weapons aur masjid ko dekhaya jayeh mei hatayar phekon ga par hakomat dar gayeh ke logo ko hakeekat na pata chal gayeh.gazi sab khon nehin chahtay thay par un ko majbor kia gia defend karnay ko.2nd umme hasan ke bare mei mujhe zaida pata nehin mulana abdul aziz rehmtullahle shadat se bhagay nehin thay ijazulhaq ne un ko kaha tha ke aap bahir kisi tarah niklien ya aap ka bhai takey thareek chaltey rahay aur forces par hamlay kia jain aur khud socho 1 admi apnay bhai beta maan k chor kar kyoun bhagayeh ga jab ke us ke sari family under they
    11 aap ke liyeh yeh bhi patao ke gazi sab ke kabar ke mitti se khusbu bhi mekhi media is bat ka gawah hai.aur aap sahdat ke bad ke pic un ke dekho wo muskura rahay hain.
    atlast agar tum lalmasjid ke khudbay suno gay tu tum ko pata chalay ga sab chesso ka and u r brain washed by some ppls

    by waqas on Jul 17, 2008 at 11:15 pm

  372. noman visit http://www.jamiahafsaforum.com/forum and lalmasjid.com and http://jamiahafsa.multiply.com/ and jamiahafsa.com and see all audio video bayans of lalmasjid then ask me a question in every audio bayan there is answer of all your questions plz visit and hear bayans of maulana abdul aziz

    by waqas on Jul 17, 2008 at 11:22 pm

  373. waqas………….. ur very right as per ur definition of islam every ghunda mawali if fortunate enough to be the imam of a mosque can get away with murder because usko tou Allah nai ikhtiar dia k burai ko jahan dekhay khatam kar dey……..if he kills then his emaan is very great..if he abducts his iman is still fresh….he can terrorize the entire community because fortunately for us he does not recognise democracy neither laws of the state….he is the law as only he knows the Quran….all those with him are mujahids and those against are kuffar……………u supported the burning of melody cinema …what next?????????? would u burn all the tv stations too or what about the internet??????? burn all internet links…….ghaszi rasheed zindabad…….put acid on all women without maulana aziz;s burqa as they all r indecent……..ghazi rasheed zindabad………..your logic is too good for him………..you said tht pmln mna was elected.wow …thts gr8..nawaz sharif his leader is the greatest theif of all..the poor chap owns only a few dozen mills and a few billion dollars…bichara………….as far as aunty shamim is concerned u say tht she shd hv gone to federal shariat court.is she the only prostitute in town??????hv u ever visited faiz a bad or pir vidhai??????? ghazi rasheed was basically a bigot…selective application of Quran……….do u want to say tht ghazi got wahi frm allah n tht is y all his actions were correct??????? he slandered aunty shamim over national tv …who were the 4 adult 4 witnesses who hv actually physically seen her doin such acts????????????rumours maybe……shak may be……….but its very easy to spoil anybodys repute..i donot defend aunty shamim if she is a proven prostitute…….but the case has not been proven in court……jamia hifza walas approach the courts for maulana aziz;s bail but they dont do the same if they hv to slander anyone………….uss nai mafi mangli yeh uskay khilaf saboot hai.qadir khan mafi mangay tou uss par
    pressure tha…….
    taliban k sath ghazi k puranay talukat thay…….these ppl are terrorists behind suicide bombings in pakistan n elsewhere…theyu shd not be spared…….ghazi sahib was an american agent throughout his career in the mosque, raised on american money used for an american jihad against russia…now these ppl are trying to use the rest of the country for their criminal interests…..jews k paisay par jihad ghazi hi kar sakta tha.wah kia jihad tha……..
    islam jungle ka qanoon nahi hai but one imam masjid cannot claim to be the law enforcer……wat if someone agrees to ur interpretition of islam n finds u doin wrong deeds…as per ur ideas he shd just kill u coz u will kafir as per his definition………he does not need to court or police coz woh eman k pehlay darjay par hai……….lolzzzzzzzzz
    islam is the supreme law n ur law as followed by ghazi was unislamic…..
    u say tht those students were there on their own wishes then y they surrendered??????? eman ki kamzori ya waldain ki mohabbat????????????
    molvi burqa ran out to save his life ..now he claims ijaz ul haq called him out ….lolz……..tehreek uss nai burqa pehn k chilani thi??????ijaz ul called or not i dont know but where was his brain..if he can be forced to come on ptv aur ghongat utha saktay hain which later was claimed as a result of pressurre then aunty shamim;s confession may also hv been due to pressure…..umme hassan k baray mai apko pata nahi lekin u live in g6 …g6 ppl know everything….lolz……basically u dont know how to defend this lady!!!!!!! sab jan bacha k bhagay thay….

    ghazi ki qabar sai khushboo atti hai …hahaha….when u turn frm f 10 chowk on kashmir highway a stinking smell greets u coming from h8 graveyard…woh kiyon atti hai??????? i hv never heard someone say tht janat ul baqeeh sai khusboo aai ya sahaba ki qabar sai khusboo aai….wats the religious significance???
    u say tht eman ka pehla darja k burai ko roko.a lot of ppl hv used abusive language on this site..some hv even called me kafir.u hv not so far shown ur emaan by even condemning their words……..shaid iss liyay k woh lal masjid ko support kartay hain…..wow……..

    last week on nadia khan show hamid mir claimed tht a girl frm jamia hifza wearing suicide belt came to him as she was angry over govt etc etc……..if hamid mir was correct frmwhere did the girl get the jacket?????????

    students of jamia/lal masjid call everyone kafir…umme hassan is a regular guest on ajj/geo…she says the same…..n u tell me tht i shd hear their recordings……..mai aisay jahilon ki bakwas sunnun????????????

    by noman on Jul 18, 2008 at 3:19 pm

  374. sorry noman islam kekab kaha ke burai dekho katal kardo meney kaha hath se roko kya anti shammem ko lalmasjid ne katal kiya shammmmmeeeeeee.and pml nawaz jeet gayeh tum ne uper bakwas ke ke lalmasjid ka supporter nehi jeta islamabad mei 2 umedwar pml nawaz ke lalmasjid ke sath thay wo jeet gayeh aur wo lalasmid conference mei bhi shareek thay meney tujhe jawab dia hai pagal apnay sawal parhle phir bol and 4 gawah zanah ke liyeh chahia hotay hai agar koi khulayeh am burai ka adaa chalaraha ho us ke liyeh 4 gawah ke zarorat nehin hai pura muhalah witness deraha hai see ary news hahahhaa anti shameem ke rishtaydar.court ke bat kartay ho 25 sal se us ke muhalay walo ne kitney dafa court mei gayeh pata hai bachay ko wo phir shekh rasheed ke wajah se adalat case na diar karti the waise lalmasjid walo ko agar ilzam lagana he tha thu koi aur aurat par kyoun na lagatay.aur phir pir vidai ke bat kartay ho tum wo lalmasjid se bohot dur they dosri bat mei janay ko tayar hun un ko mei mana karo ga khud akela tum adress do ya sath chalo allah janta hai isb mei jahan mujhe pata chala hai meney mana kia he kalat kam karnay se.g 11 guest house jahan 1 weak pehlay chapa para wahan bhi un ko meney mana kia tha.agent gazi nehi tum HO tum kya allah ho naozbillah jo american agent kehtay ho dil ka hal allah janta hai.taliban zindabad khudkush 65ke jang mei pakistani ne ijad kiya tha ab mza lo khudkush ka haaaaaaaaaa.umehasan is principle of jamiah hafsa and mei un se nehin mila tab kehta ho ke mei zaida nehin janta aur kuch…shaheed ke kabar se khusbu atti hai sach hai yeh and afghanistan mei 2001 mei shuru mei taliban ke kabro se bhi yahi khusbu ayeh the.2nd jo tum h8 kabristan ke bat karte ho tu jehan badbo atti hai waha cda ke kora para hwa hai jaha aaj kal fast ka bord laga hwa hai jab ke kabristan kuch fasle par hai han agar shuda ke qabar se boo ayeh tu phir pato i wILL ALSO COME AND SEE.MEI F 11 MEI REHTA HO JAB KE MEI AKSAR US ROAD SE PINDI JATA HON.2ND KAFIR KE BAT NEHI MEI CONDEM KARTA HO PEHLEY BHI KAHA HAI KE AISE KEHNA JIAZ NEHIN TUM NE MUJHE PAR ILZAM LAGA DIA JO LOG KAFIR KEHTAY HAI ALLAH UN KE GUNAHO MEI IZAFAH KARAY GA LEKIN QURAM MEI AYAT KA TARJUMA HAI JO LOG ALLAH KE DE HWE SHARIAT KE MUTABIK FAISLE NEHIN KARTAY WO KAFIR HAIN SO THINK …..tabhi kehta hoo pehley information lo phir bolo ab kab tum islamabad mei he rehtay ho tum 1 guzarish hai ke ap mujhe se milo mei aap se umer mei chota zaror hon ga par phir bhi app milo and umehasan condem sucide bombings but i really like accurate sucide bombing jis mei koi begunah na mara jayeh bare mei tujh ko kuch pata nehi.meney .

    by waqas on Jul 23, 2008 at 11:21 pm

  375. aur mei g6 mei kuch arsa raha ho mei udhar 2 sal parha hoo pcc apara mei aur mere nani nana mamo sab g 6 mei rehtay hai and jamiahafsa jaha khatm hota hai waha samne walay ghar maray college dost fawad ke hai agar yakeen nehin jao pata karlo.

    by waqas on Jul 23, 2008 at 11:25 pm

  376. U talk abt allegations but im astonished abt ur language..u call me aunty shamim ka rishtaydar…….absolutely in bad faith…..otherwise we all r related through adam and eve…..u talk about 4 witnesses this requirement is there to prove hud tht too if someone has actually seen the act of intercourse…the muhallay wallas could not hv seen the act only suspicions…..the only way this can be otherwise is if some of the accusers were themselves clients…..kindly also quote the various fir numbers or judicial complaints as claimed by u…..this basically was a publicity gimmick…I cannot vouch for aunty shamims character but I can also not defame her because I do not hv witnesses to prove it…..aunty umme hassan has also launched a tohmat on neelofar bakhtiyar I hope she has references to prove hud otherwise she herself deserves korras……( jinnah news paper last week) ……I hv heard the interviews of 313 brigade of jamia hifza headed by umme hassan on aljazeera…….the educated girls consider every one outside jamia hifza even a little bit different frm them as non muslims…….u urself support suicide bombings…..wow.can u prove it by Quran n sunnat..khudkushi is the extreme of nashukri and na umeedi……….Allah is with those who hv patience……u say suicide bomber targeting gunnahgars is jaiz….kindly prove if such can happen in this world ……how is it decided and who does it declaring tht all the targets are gunnahgar……I once asked tht where did ghazi sahib involved himself in tabligh or in attempts to change the minds of ppl around him………aside frm political statements and criminal acts he does not hv any track record……. THE SAME CHANNELS LIKE GEO ARY AJJ ETC HV SHOWN LIVE COVERAGE OF SERMONS BY MAULANA BURQA AND GHAZI THREATNING THE GOVT TO HIS SUICIDE BOMBINGS…….

    U still did not answer tht y ghazi was asking for safe passage …..y the cowards of jamia hifza / lal masjid surrender???????????????? Tab islam kahan tha……..tab eman kamzor kiyon huwa…………..

    Mian biwi bhag gayay….aik ki biwi pehlay hi bahir thi I don’t know y…….aur aik nai pursakoon zindgi guzarnay k liyay safe passage maan raha tha……….lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Ab Islamabad mai chappay partay hain…….the same used to happen before……….i agree with u tht these things shd happen………the govt has also stopped burai verbally n by force in lal masjid…………..nawaz sharif is the biggest cheeni chor…ajkal atta chor…….unko elect kar k app nai islam aur Pakistan ki both khidmat ki……wen petrol will reach 150 per litre and nawaz bhai will buy another qasae e saroor I hope prostitution will be finished in pak……….

    Waisay aside frm prostitution and parda there is nothing wrong with our society…….app bhio brothels ki talash mai jatay hain……..cheeni chor k hath kab katain gai???????molvion ko jhoot bolnay sai kab rokay gai???????? Achi baat aap bhi kehnay ka saleeqa kab sekhain gai…………. UR A VERY LEARNED AND GUD MUSLIM,ITS TIME FOR U TO ACT.

    U wanted to go to pir vidhai…im amazed…….ur an authority on brothels in isb but ur unaware abt faizabad n pir vidhai…….wat abt shahi muhalla in lhr??????? Recently almost all channels namely geo tv one hv done progs by taking interviews of sex workers…….

    1 worker on tv one wanted to get married and leave prostitution…y don’t u help her out.i hv yet to hear some one frm lal masjid doin any public service on this regard…….even maulana burqa can ask aunty shamims hand in marriage coz 1 as per u unhon nai toba kar li…..2. 4 shadion ki ijazat hai………3…unko izzat ki zindgi bhi mil jayay gi…….actually including u app sirf tohmat lagatay hain, mana kartay hain practical help koi nahi karta………..bas yehi apki interpretation hai islam ki.

    by noman on Jul 24, 2008 at 3:07 pm

  377. next plz type in english as its very difficult to read roman urdu when ur giving a detailed answer!!!!!!

    moreover while referring to Quran give surat/ayat no….

    kindly also prove all actions in light of sunnat……..kidnapping for watever reason is not permited by islam……….chinese girls and aunty shamim jaisi bhi thi but y were all of them abducted????????????????????

    being in g6 u n ur friends/family did not join in the SO CALLED JIHAD ….y not……u support them so much magar shaid sirf baton tak…………jaan apko bhi bari piyari thi…….hehehehe

    shaheedon ki khushboo sirf cda k korray sai dub gaee?????itnay anmbia ki qabrain mojood hain…sahaba ki mojood hain lekin khusbooain sirf afghanistan ya ghazi sahib ki qabar sai atti hai…….

    pata nahi kitna ittar dala jata ho ga uskay mureedon ki tarf sai……….smile on a dead bodys face is due to relaxation of muscles……yeh sab karamat daba peeron ki hoti hai………those who were martyreed in afghanistan were they only fighting with russians or against fellow muslims???????? russians left in 88 wat sort of jihad were muslims waging against each other???????????

    if molvi burqa can come out wearing a burqa on ijaz ul saying i seriously doubt his aqal o fehm……….the same goes for all his followers………

    25 saal muhallay walay jatay rahay yeh app kehtay hain.lal masjid bhi kafi purani hai………if aunty shamim was corrupt y did masjid ppl tolerated for so long.y act only when the govt was acting against illegal encroachment by jamia hifza i.e last yr …actually yeh chanday par chalnay walay molvion ki apna chanda bachanay ki koshish thi……….( do tell me fir complaints no )

    for maulana burqa’s bail/release all lal masjid ppl go to court kachahri and this is given due coverage in news papers and tv but i hv never heard these ppl goin to courts against aunty shamim or chinese parlor……..moreover they never targeted any any other social ills like corruption, law n order,street crimes, wani, swara, rape etc etc etc….no press conference by lal masjid ppl or these pure neighbours mentioned in the media ever before……….it all came on tv, papers last yr……..pehlay emaan /islam khamosh tha….

    app brothels mai manna karnay jatay hain…….or keep gathering info abt them……dont u hv anything better to do……..i also hear a lot of things abt prostitution etc……but i never go after such places which are suspicious……

    a lot of bad things happen in remote areas of all 4 provinces.in balochistan and places near the village of ghazi sahib women are paraded naked on the drop of a hat…..women are also sold openly to men frm affluent families in chitral and northern areas………

    y dont u help these ppl.there issue is not prostitution maybe ur only interested in brothals n prostitutes becoz ghazi sahib used it as a publicity gimmik…..

    u say tht cinema houses shd be burnt………y…..ram chand pakistani is being released next week…..it does not not revolve around songs and dances.the issue is very real and true……bad movies shd not be made…vulgarity shd not be supported……….not all movies are bad…….for their political purpose ghazi sahib , umme hassan and other girls from lal masjid appear on same tv channnels supported by programmes/adds promoting vulgarity……kia yeh ghalat nahi???????????

    meetha meetha hip hip karwa karwa tumhara…..hahaha

    (((((((waisay i would really like an an explaination and appology for u calling me AUNTY SHAMIM KA RISHTAYDAR))))))))

    donot give selected answer..answer both my posts…..

    fazool logic , allegations sai jawab na dena behtar hoga….

    by noman on Jul 24, 2008 at 8:06 pm

  378. when the first khaip of girls surrendered from lal masjid they were giving interviews on geo tht we havnt been given rs 5000 as promised by govt……………..kia hi jazba tha

    sajid khan this i cannot decide tht mr ghazi wud be put in hell coz its allah to decide not us ….neither i call anyone kafir…….only i say is he did wrong……..we humans are nobody to call anyone jahanummi, kafir , qadiyani…………….yes a debate can be done on acts on the basis or right n wrong, islamic or unislamic….

    by noman on Jul 25, 2008 at 10:39 am

  379. Assalamoalikum

    may is baat say mukammil ittifaq karta hun k GHAZI sahab SHAHEED or pak army jahannumi hay

    by Sajid Khan on Jul 25, 2008 at 2:19 pm

  380. Hey Noman why you deny that you are not an Ahmadi.

    I know who you are ..

    Why all this propaganda on internet forums and pretending at the same time that you are not an Ahmadi.

    What ever you say is not credible , you are a liar and your job is to divide , confuse and dilute main stream Islam.

    by An Ahmadi on Jul 26, 2008 at 2:00 am

  381. lolzzzzzz…another tactic to confuse the issue…..

    by noman on Jul 26, 2008 at 10:31 am

  382. sab se pehley anti shameem ke rishtaydar g 11 guset house brothel jahan mei gaya unho ne khud tasleem kiya ke idhar galat kam hota hai mei ghar ke under nehi gaya.aur us ka mujhe 1 larkay ali ne bataya tha.2nd jab 65 ke jang mei tank ke under walay ko khudkush se marna jiaz hai tub ab kyoun nehin us wakt bhi koi indian musalman tank chalaraha ho ga.3rd rashid menhas se nishanehaider wapis liya jayeh kyoun ke us ne khudkushi ke hahah.lalmasjid walay free quran aur burkha har sal logo ko detay thay for your kind information pechlay 7 salo se.aur is ke elawa 8october ke zalzalay mei lalmsajid walo ne boht madad ke aur jihadi tanzimo ne bhi khud mussaraf zalil manta hai hahaha.kehtay ho lalmsajid walo ne kya kam kiye.fir ke bat kartay ho to tum isb mei retay ho meray sath chalo agar thanay walo ne fir darg ke tu mei mano ga tum ko.thana margallah ke asi shakuat ali ke pas jao sabak sikhay ga tum ko wo aaj kal wo chakshazad thanay mei hota hai jan.cinema ke bat achi lagi par aaj tak 1 asi film ka name bata jis mei larki ne pura parda kiya ho lolz.hhaahahh

    by waqas on Jul 27, 2008 at 2:00 am

  383. Will Of Ghazi (R.A) English version

    When this letter reaches, you those inside Lal Masjid might have been martyred. Around 15,000 security forces and paramilitary troops with all their sophisticated weaponry would have crushed unarmed and innocent students. They would have conquered the Lal Masjid and Jamiah Hafsah. Lal Masjid is looking like Karbala at this time. The scattered bodies of martyrs, the cries of wounded students, the destroyed minarets of mosque and its four walls are crying for we have been only been punished for demanding Islamic Shariah for which 600,000 people were martyred when Pakistan came into being.

    In this entire scenario the unexpected arrest and interview of the Head Cleric of Lal Masjid and the founder of the student’s movement Maulana Abdul Aziz dressed in a Burqa caused a lot of disappointment among the Islamists. The Media deliberately tried to paint a wrong picture of it and most of the people were deceived. Ordinary people thought that Maulana Abdul Aziz was trying to escape from the fear of death and he was leaving behind his sincere companions and students. Those people who don’t have any abilities to analyze the situation should think that if Maulana Abdul Aziz was really trying to escape from death then why would his son, daughter, mother, wife, and myself (his brother), his sincerest companions and students not follow the same strategy?

    I believe that instead of refuting allegations of our opponents it is more relevant to tell our broken hearted supporters that Maulana Abdul Aziz became a victim of enemy’s conspiracy. Even though there is a certain mystery is drawn over his arrest, with the passage of time the truth will be revealed. We know how much Maulana Abdul Aziz loves martyrdom in the way of Allah and what an enthusiastic Mujahid he is in the caravan of Jihad. The only mistake he made was trusting some people at a very critical time and he will have to suffer the consequences of this mistake. The truth is that Maulana Abdul Aziz was not afraid of death; neither was he fleeing from it. He had written his will, taken Ghusl and was waiting for martyrdom but then a ray of hope that the lives of the rest of the people could be saved created the resulting trouble. Rest assured, that in the near future the trith will be revealed,

    I must say that Maulana Abdul Aziz and his companions started the movement only for the pleasure of Allah and implementation of Shariah. The amendments in Hududullah [limits set by Allah], destruction of mosques, the spreading of vulgarity and nudity, self made explanations of Islamic creed, military assaults on the Jihadists, handing over Muslims to Kuffar’s prisons like sheep and goats, and the wide-spread secularism were not bearable for us and these are the reasons why we decided to launch the movement. I also want to clarify that none of the students inside Lal Masjid or Jamiah Hafsah were forced to stay with us. All the students remained with us at their own will. Their hearts have been changed by hearing the speeches of Maulana Abdul Aziz.

    I also want to mention that we want the just system of Islam in our country. We are looking forward to seeing the implementation of Shariah laws in the courts of justice. We want the poor to have justice and bread. We want to end bribery, illegal methods, favoritism, injustice, and vulgarity. The solution to all these problems is the implementation of Islam and that is the only solution. This is the order of Allah and also a demand of the constitution of Pakistan. We have denied the comforts of this life and instead have chosen the difficulties of this path. We are fully aware of what we are doing and we have chosen the life of the hereafter over the life of this world.

    The courage of students with me is sky high and I would not be wrong in saying that their courage is a source of motivation for me. I ask what crime have these students committed? Is the punishment of standing in the way of Allah with the intention of correction of some wrong people a reason to destroy innocent people with explosives? There are people who claim that we challenged the writ of the state but why did they deny the laws of Allah and challenged His writ? These people who have fired bullets on the bodies of students of Quran and Hadeeth are oppressors indeed.

    On this occasion the media has also shown its biased behavior. but we leave this matter with Allah. In the end, as a part of my will, I would repeat my words to the Islamists, the members of our movement, the students, their relatives and the media that our movement was started with sincere purposes. We remain firm on our demands of implementation of Shariah. We are satisfied that we chose the way of sacrifice. Sacrificing life for the implementation of Islam is an honor to us. We are not disappointed in the mercy of Allah and we believe that our blood will become the message of revolution. This world sometimes labeled us as the agents of taghut and sometimes they labeled as us mad fanatics. But today the rain of bullets is proof that we are fighting in the way of Allah. Indeed the people of truth faced different trials. If our Amir Sayyidina Hussein R.A. was martyred in helplessness then we are proud to be part of the same caravan. InshaAllah, the Islamic revolution will come to this country.

    The Gardens will perceive spring but we will not be there to see it

    by waqas on Jul 27, 2008 at 2:09 am

  384. http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=8972

    by waqas on Jul 27, 2008 at 2:17 am

  385. Allah has arranged a very strange system for the Shuhada. There is all enjoyment, all peace and all honour in this system. By the Lord of Ka’ba, if we understand that system, we will not bother to live in this world even for a minute. What is there in this world than fraud, lie, diseases, worries, fights, quarrels, sins and restlessness? The Shaheed will be asked in the Paradise what more he yearns. He will answer, “O my Lord, send me to the earth again so that I may be martyred again.” O yes, return from the Paradise just for martyrdom. Allah-o-Akbar! O yes, the place where there are the palaces made of gold, silver and jewels, holy pious celestial wives, no worry, no disease, but the company of the Prophets and the Sahaaba(RA), the horses that fly in the air, unique health and youth and everything that man can yearn for i.e. neither fear nor anxiety. But the Shaheeed is ready to give up all for the sake of the blessings that he gains at the time of martyrdom. Today, when I began to write, I missed the Shahada very much.

    The politics of the country does not deserve only discussion. These days, it is not politics. It is open terrorism i.e. the American’s phones, Parvez Musharrif’s obstinacy and personal limitations of Mr. Asif Zardary. Pakistan is, no doubt, under torment; the country that sided with the Pagans and killers is groaning under the load of sins. The smoke of oppression is still rising from Jamia Hafsa, Baajorr, Waziristan, Swat and Karachi. But I smell the fragrance of the blood of the martyrs from this smoke. The Shuhada of Karachi like Hazrat Ludhianvi, Hazrat Shaamzai (RH), Hazrat Jameel (RH) and Mufti Iqbal (RH), the Shuhada of Jamia Hafsa like Ghazi Abd-ur-Rasheed, Maulana Maqsood Ahmad and a number of dear sisters and daughters, the Shuhada of Baajorr and Waziristan i.e. innocent pious sons and daughters; in which were all these killed? But Allah be thanked, the retired military officers are talking sense. Would that the present day Generals had also remembered that they had been born to the Muslim mothers. The voice of Azaan also echoed in their ears. They have also recited the Kalma of Hazrat Muhammad . Then why are they becoming the soldiers of Bush? Do they not remember their death, grave, Madina and the Hauz-e-Kausar or will they also speak the truth only after retirement?

    Allah abominates the Pagans and does not accept any of their good deed. The Noble Quran has clarified this fact time and again. Then how fair is it to cooperate with the Pagans and to become a part of their unholy unity? Keep it in mind, those who side with the Pagans can also become the butt of Allah’s abomination and wrath—- and they are becoming. There were also a few Muslims in the army of Abu Jahl; the Muslims who were swept by the circumstances. These people lived in Makkah. When Abu Jahl set out with his forces, they also came out with them. They would say to one another that they would make the final decision after the face to face encounter in the battlefield. If they saw some power in the Muslims, they would profess Islam openly and join the Muslims. But if they did not see any power there, they would remain attached with their nation i.e. Polytheists, because they are to live in the world and run with the times. The Abu Jahl swarm reached the field of Badr with pomp and show, weapons, arms, bands, dancing, singing, pride, haughtiness and the war might. The Muslims also stood before them; very weak, unarmed, mild, shoeless, unarmed; a few had swords in their hands that were broken, the others had only sticks, cudgels and stones in their hands. There was the clamour of the camels and horses in the army of the Polytheists whereas there were supplications and sighs in the army of the Muslims. Then the skies began to tremble. Hazrat Jibrail Amin with the army of angels landed on the earth on his horse “Haizoom.” The accursed Satan with his millions of disciples also descended to the side of Abu Jahl. When the Muslims in the army of the Polytheists saw this, they cried out, “Today, the Muslims have come out just to die. How can these few unarmed weak Muslims counter this huge army? There will be no fight today rather one sided proceeding. Abu Jahl and his army will wipe out the Muslims within a few minutes or in the words of Sheikh Rasheed will make them omelette.” O yes, the naked eyes were observing this only. Therefore, those policy-stricken Muslims remained the part of the Infidel army. When the war started, those unlucky people were killed. The Noble Quran tells us that all of them were pushed into the hell. While seizing their souls, the angels beat them well and said to them, “What did you do?” They answered, “We were weak. So we became a part of the Polytheists out of constraint.” The angels did not accept this answer. They beat them with the whips of fire and drove them to punishment. O Allah! we seek thy protection. What is the similarity between the merriments of Shuhada and the torments to those who sided with the Pagans? O yes, I am missing the Shuhada today very much i.e. Huzaifa, Talha and Paamla who were killed around Babury Masjid, then Arsalan, Bahoo and his companions who sacrificed their lives after them. Babury Masjid is the daughter of Ka’ba and the esteem of Islam. It was right to raise voice at it, not a crime. Those who taunt those who raise a voice in favour of Babury Masjid Movement may weaken and Advani may build a temple there and they may take the sermon deliverers to inaugurate that temple who taunt us. “Where did you keep sleeping at the time of Lal Masjid who raise voices for Babury Masjid. Lal Masjid is also the daughter of Ka,ba.” No one has forgotten it nor a Muslim can forget it. Allah be thanked, Azaan and Namaz is also performed there. May it continue till the Doomsday! The pulpit of the Lal Masjid may again be blessed with the voice of Hazrat Maulana Abdul-Aziz who is the son of a Shaheed, the father of a Shaheed, the brother of a Shaheed and the nephew of a Shaheed. Actually, I have started the study of the Surah of the Noble Quran named “Surah Muhammad” whose another name is “Al-Qital.” Our Holy Prophet has a very deep relation with Jihad and Qital. Those who do not believe in Jihad and Qital, actually, do not believe in Hazrat Muhammad . I have been accumulating the gems on Jihad in this Surah. More than forty-five pages have been written till verse number four. There is command of Jihad as well as those of prisoners of war. There is excellence of Shuhada at the end of the Surah which extends to two more verses.

    I was reading the commentary of the commentators and envying at the Shuhada. Allah-o-Akbar! The Shuhada have gained great success. But only the Holy Prophet knew the high position of martyrdom or only that knows who is killed. Allah had told and shown this position to the Holy Prophet . Therefore, he, time and again, yearned for martyrdom in this world whereas his position is much higher than the Shuhada. The others know of the excellences of martyrdom but they come to know of its actual position and the practical blessings after martyrdom. That is why; the Shaheed will yearn to return to the world after entering Paradise. I was studying the excellences of Shuhada and feeling sorry for the people who write journals to lessen the importanace of martyrdom and in their fancy, they plead the true Din. Allah be thanked, the righteous people are themselves sensible. They do not need anyone’s pleading. The Shuhada of Afghanistan are the pioneers of Jihad in this age. Ten thousand Shuhada of Dasht-e-Laila! How strange is the figure ten thousand! When the Khaaqanis attacked Kharasaan during the reign of Hazrat Usman Ghani (RA), the entire army of the Muslisms was martyred in that battle which numbered ten thousand. The Noble Quran tells us time and again that Allah does not need anyone’s Jihad. He can kill the Pagans Himself if He wills. But He enjoined Jihad so that He might judge who is the true Muslim and who is the so-called Muslim. He enjoined Jihad so that some Muslims might be blessed with the high position of martyrdom. Now every Muslim should peep into his heart, “At what place is he standing in this trial?” A few days ago, I was walking on foot. A few young men of schools and colleges were talking about “Jihad” in a loud voice. All of them had western dressed and western styles. They were saying, “Actual Jihad is the Jihad of the “Self” and this is the greatest Jihad. I was astonished at this net of Satan. Approx 558 verses of the Noble Quran have described Jihad. That is not the real Jihad rather the minor Jihad? If the people who write books on “Jihad with Self” had gone out with the people that the “Jihad of Self” whom people are calling greater Jihad is comprehensive Jihad of Hazrat Ibrahim Ablah, Hazrat Ibn-e-Mubarik, Hazrat Imaam Raazi and Hazrat Imaam Ghazaali rather it is the Jihad of Mirza Qadiani. He has raised this voice and has tried to weaken the importance of the obligation of Jihad in the way of Allah. If you do not believe, go to the people and ask them. They do not know the meaning of Jihad with the “Self.” On whose basis have they humiliated the research work on Jihad?
    __________________
    Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching and reason with them in the best manners possible” (Sura Al-Nahl 16, Ayah 125)

    by waqas on Jul 27, 2008 at 2:36 am

  386. BEFORE REPLYING TO POSTS LEARN MANNERS………the language u used is filthy n degrading…….the use of word zaleel and aunty shamim k rishtaydar shows ur low mentality………

    Rather than applogy u use these words again and again as all of the lal masjid ppl and supporters…this shows tht u lack knowledge and cannot answer in a logical and decent manner…….your education rather lack of it is evident from this…

    U say tht one person in g 11 confessed tht bad things happen there…maybe…..as far as aunty shamim deeds this was told to u by mr ali…..as per Islamic law 4 witnesses are required even before launching an allegation…..tht too if they hv seen the actual act…plz clarify ur position not from muhallay wala gawahis but actual eye witnesses…….

    As far as ur reference to 65 war plz quote the battle exact i.e location date etc so tht I can check dates……….as far as Rashid minhas is concerned the act cannot be termed as suicide as he was fighting an enemy officer on board tht plane…..however ur attempt to belittle a daring officer and compare him with those who take innocent lives shows ur sick mentality…….only two ppl died as a result of tht plane crash…1 was an Indian agent…..

    The fav tactics of lal masjid supporters is loud accusations…now u hv started accusing some asi in some police station……u hv convieniently forgotten ur accusation and hv not supported it when I asked u to prove tht lal masjid ppl had gone to the police or launched an fir/judicial complaint……I presume u to be a dangerous person as u support suicide bombings and terrorist therefore meeting u is out of question….

    Ur very rite when u say tht madrissas and many Islamic org did a lot of gud work after the quake…president musharraf acknowledged it terming them the best ngos in the world….. u admit these words from him but say tht everything else which goes against u are lies……similarly a lot of gud work was done by the army, the police and other law enforcing agencies….many of our soldiers were martyred during search operations ..however u will not praise them as u seem to be anti Pakistan

    Lal masjid ppl distributed free Qurans kash Quran parh bhi letay…..they used to distribute burqas even to men…maulna burqa is a living example……the funniest thing is tht all these jihadi org are doin jihad against muslims…none is fighting against America , India or Israel……if u want to wage jihad plz do so in other countries than Pakistan..dont destroy ur own country….

    Waisay momin ki nigahein neechi honi chahyein but ur interest in brothels and films says otherwise……HOWEVER I ASKED THE REASON Y UMMEHASSAN N HIFZIANS ARE SO HAPPY TO APPEAR ON TV THE SAME MEDIA WHO DOES NOT WEAR COMPLETE CLOTHES……MUNAFIQAT

    WILL OF GHAZI……………….. LOLZ

    First para…..claims tht there were unarmed students inside the mosque…lolz……itna bara jhoooooooooooot………I myself hv seen students holding weapons , wearing masks outside the lal mosque…….u may claim tht many weapons were placed later by the govt…maybe but wat of the weapons which everyone saw before and during the operation on various tv channels.secondly ghazi was fighting for shariah lolz I hv already clarified tht he was only trying to protect an illegal madrissa which was the biggest chanda gathering place for lal masjid…

    Second and thirds para……..reffered to maulana burqa

    He left behind his mother and son, wife and brother….lolzzzzzz….it was as per plan…pehlay mai jan bacha k bhagun ga then the gr8 umme hassan…the son was not allowed by terrorist inside..maybe ghazi was also a hostage to the same terrorist…he himself was supporting…the same ppl for whom safe passage was demanded by ghazi…..waisay maut sar par ho tou maa bhi bhool jati hai as proven by maulana burqa…………….the theory of conspiracy against maulana burqa proves one thing tht maulana sahib was extremely foolish and thus not able to lead any one…………..
    • Y did ghazi was asking for safe passage …where shariat sank at tht time?
    • Y umme hassan surrendered?
    • Y jamia hifza were demanding 5000 when they surrendered?
    • Y all the students surrendered?
    • Y ghazi sahib claimed there are no children inside?

    4th para…………. All the students infact wanted to surrender however only a fewcwere permitted by the terrorist to surrender and come out……he talks abt shariat…where was shariat at the time of asking for safe passage?????? Infact everyone wanted to save his/her life……….

    Last paras………they r just emotional cra p attemptiong to fool ppl tht the movement was in any way Islamic………

    Last post by waqas

    “Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching and reason with them in the best manners possible” (Sura Al-Nahl 16, Ayah 125)
    the word of allah is supreme therefore I will use the same verse u reffered to at the end of ur post…….please act on it…please don’t use abusive language………..allah says tht one shd invite ppl with beautiful words,preaching , wisdom, reason and in the best manners possible
    when did ghazi sahin did all tht??????????????????????????? He straight away went for jihad against fellow muslims, abducting women, buirning property, killing fellow muslims………this ayat proves tht ghazi sahib was doing unislamic things
    u hv yet not been able to prove abduction, slander etc in the light of Quran n sunnat….ummehassan is still doin the same unislamic activities…….maybe for u burning of girls school in swat is also true shariat

    obviously u hv copied the entitre post from somewhere…atleast be original …for me the true martyrs were those soldiers and police men who died protecting the lives of countless others from suicide bombers sent out by maulana burqa n his followers…..
    u support suicide bombing may Allah give u guidance………
    u hv still not answered any of my questions of my previous posts like
    • Where did maulana brothers preech in beautiful words as ordered by allah aside from lal masjid.
    • Did they honestly believe tht by giving sermons in a small mosque of a small sector of isb they could change the fate of the country and muslim world as a whole….
    • Y do all lal masjid supporters call everyone who opposes them as kafir?
    • Ask hamid mir tht how student of jamia hifza obtained a suicide jacket?
    • Are there no other social ills / unislamic acts being done in the society.y do all molvis go after brothels?
    • Is there any document which spells out how shariat implementation would be carried out acceptable to all sects?
    • Y ghazi brothers accepted pay from the same ghair sharaee nizam and that too from ghair sharaee bank and ghair sharee president?
    • Did ghazi obtained permission from all the parents for the students participation in jihad?
    SAB SAI BARI BAAT Y DID NOT U JOIN THEM IN THIS SO CALLED JIHAD????????

    Kaaba ki koi betian nahi…prove me otherwise from Quran….

    Plz come up with logic supported by Quran…defend ghazi;s actions through Quran and I mean each one of them…show from sunnat tht prophet p.b .u.h nowzubillah ever abducted a woman????? Show from the sunnat of sahaaba tabaeens or taba tabaeens their indulgence in slander and killing fellow muslims……..also support suicide bombing from Quran and not from 65 war….
    Ur repeating things in your blogs …hv some sense……………im still waiting for your apology for all the bad words u use……….

    by noman on Jul 27, 2008 at 2:35 pm

  387. I like approach of Waqas , he looks sincere and truthful.

    Where as Noman is some clever guy who is trying to be a well wisher of Muslims but actually he is not.

    Noman is trying to lower self esteem of Muslims and he tries to ridicule and produce guilt in them.

    by Sultan e Rome on Jul 28, 2008 at 3:33 am

  388. :)))))))))))))))))) sultan u must be a g 6 fellow, friend of waqas……………..i really appreciate comments with logic…………only statements does not matter……………but i respect ur opinion as u hv this right to express……….i also admire u for ATLEAST not abusing……..well if u think im clever i will say tht i m not impressed with emotional bulshit of anyone……………….Allah knows well tht im sincere or not……..im questioning ghazi;s acts not his personality……..anyways neva mind!!!!!!

    my questions still unanswered

    by noman on Jul 28, 2008 at 8:24 am

  389. I like approach of Waqas , he looks sincere and truthful.

    laughs out loud

    maybe calling aunty shamim k rishtaydar,zaleel musharraf ,supporting suicide bombing, burning property,slandering allegations,believing every other person as a lesser muslim with less knowledge of islam & more makes u believe tht he looks sincere and truthful…………i agree he is sincere with ghazi sahib but watever he or ghazi sahib believes does not make them true muslims as their brand and interpretition of shariat is not in accordance with Quran n sunnat……..

    it would hv been better instead of praising mr waqas u shd hv helped him out with what he?(waqas) is failed to do that is to defend ghazis acts………..

    i can myself write such posts which favour me and oppose waqas or anyother with the opposite view……..but its useless………..

    the blog is not of me ,waqas, musharraf,meera g , any ahmadi or kadiani etc etc…….its of ghazi abdul rasheed and his students……..

    well u all know tht but its just another way of confusing, twisting the attention frm the discussion…….

    yes one shd be clever so tht ppl like ghazi shd not fool around……..

    hehehehehehe

    waqas u shd not focus on these posts as they r not for u ….im waiting for the answer (if u hv of) the posts above sultan;s…………so plz dont try to confuse the issue

    waqas the ayat at the end of ur last post shd be the guidline so tht u write in a decent manner………..

    im still waiting for an appology of the bad words u used………….

    abusing does not make any body correct……….plzzzzzzzzzz

    by noman on Jul 28, 2008 at 6:03 pm

  390. noman your question will be answerd soon.iam out of city iam using mobile gprs so cant reply but will answer ypur questions vvv sooon.

    by waqas on Jul 31, 2008 at 12:17 pm

  391. ok no problem

    by noman on Jul 31, 2008 at 9:20 pm

  392. gazi sahib saheed is kay waja say pakistan per ya halat hay

    by bashirkalani on Aug 9, 2008 at 8:32 pm

  393. lolzzzzzzzzzzzz

    woh zinda thay tou kia farq tha??????
    unkay bhai bhabi students zinda hain uss sai kia farqc par raha hai??????????

    my questions still unanswered!!!!!!!

    by noman on Aug 10, 2008 at 2:03 am

  394. :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

    by noman on Aug 14, 2008 at 2:58 pm

  395. i know its impossible to give explaination for ghazi;s actions………

    all his supporters fail to answer and leave one by one……..

    laughs out loud!!!!!!

    by noman on Aug 16, 2008 at 8:52 am

  396. Masoom logon ko qatal karney wala, zaleel bhee hoaa to kiss kai hath. Apney aaaqaa kai naey badmash kai hath.

    Jo sachey they woh shaheed hoey,
    jo luchey they woh zaleel hoey.

    Allah ko chor kar dosron ko apna walee banaogey to yahee hogaa.

    Yaa Allah tabah kur Muslmanon aur Islam kai dushmanon ko, AMEEEN.

    by One More!! on Aug 19, 2008 at 12:54 am

  397. lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    i knew ppl waiting here for this day…………

    zal;eel tou ghazi bhi hua hai

    who says he is shaheed

    jo apni jaan bachanay k liyaey safe passage maang raha tha????????????????????

    lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    bhaijaaaaaaan my answers still unanswered………dont try to confuse it by taking musharraf;s name………musharraf apni jaga ghalat tou yeh joh islam ka naam lai k gand ghol rahay thay unn k baray mai kia kahain gai………….

    its been 1 yr on this blog no body so far been able to defend ghazi;s actions in light of Quran n sunnat…….

    lolzzzzzzzzz adhay jaan bacha k bhaag gayay masjid sai……adhay safe passage mang rahay thay…..

    tou shaheed kesay????????????????????

    i dont defend musharraf……

    remember this blog is of ghazi abdul rasheed and not of musharraf

    kitnay dukh ki baat hai k jo usko support kartay hain they hv nothing to say to defend him saway uskay k woh 4 gaalian dosron ko nikal dein ya logon ko kafir keh dain

    what a shame and pity!!!!!!!!

    by noman on Aug 19, 2008 at 9:56 am

  398. the suicide bombings in wah hv claimed more than 70 muslims lives ………….shame on ghazi and all others who train suicide bombers and support suicide bombings

    before ghazi;s death he used to claim tht he has suicide bombers inside lal masjid .thank allah tht they are all dead

    the current bombing and the one in melody chowk must hv been carried out by ppl of the same sort

    SHAME ON ALL THOSE WHO THINK THT THIS IS ISLAM!!!!!!

    by noman on Aug 21, 2008 at 6:30 pm

  399. :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

    all ghazi lovers please welcome respected zardari as ur new president…….

    ab ghazi k khawab ki tabeer ka waqt aagia……ghazi ki shariat jo k Quran aur sunnat k munaffi hai ab saheeh meaning mai nafiz ho gi

    lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    hahahahahahaha

    pakistani awam deserve it!!!!!!!!!!!!

    good!!!!!!!!

    by noman on Aug 23, 2008 at 11:20 pm

  400. all of ghazi supporters hv run off as usual……coz its impossible for jaheelens and mufsids to defend fisad they are tryin to spread…umme hassan is in hosp …may she remain there and may her hubby remain in jail forever but shaid woh bhi deal hi karein gai…..

    respected asif zardari has takenover…..ab to mithaian banto………

    laughs out loud!!!!!!!!!!

    hats off to all those from the armed forces who embraced shihadat in the lal mosque operation…….indeed they saved us from our worst enemies tht is the jahil suicide bombers of lal mosque inc ghazi rasheed……may they kill molvi umer in a similar manner….. pak fauj zindabad, pakistasn paindabad…..

    ghazi lovers …GEO ZARDARI :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

    by noman on Sep 6, 2008 at 10:46 pm

  401. for those who donot know that lal masjid was orgionally occuied some decades of sqr_feets but the father of shazi extended it to nearly 2000 sqr feets approximately with help of people in army under the reign of zia ul huq or
    around that if sum one wants to impose sharia he shud go
    reforming his deeds rather then others if sum one commits
    sins he will pay for it infront of God donot cause fasaad
    on the name of islam have u ever seen anything happening
    like this ibn saudia arabia ,this is all crap u kidnapped policemen ,u took over shops illegaly burn shops of others and now u say that we r following islam good going spoil the name of islam and use it for ur benefits

    by Naveed on Sep 20, 2008 at 2:42 am

  402. aoa,

    how can u preach islam on gunpoint.

    all over history we denied Europeans' commest that Islam Spread by Sword and now we r "spreading" ( imposing Islam by Guns and power .

    who says Ghazi was shaheed please read the history of Kaaba when Kabaa was taken hostage and what Saudi Arabia did to culprits.

    <a href="http://http://www.amazon.com/Siege-Mecca-Uprising-Islams-Holies...target=”_blank”>http://<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Siege-Mecca…” target=”_blank”>www.amazon.com/Siege-Mecca-Uprising-Islams-Holies…
    and also this one

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mosque_Seizure
    i think we did very less to lal masjid occupents. they showed have been crushed and we should have set an example.

    by AAn on Oct 3, 2008 at 8:34 am

  403. agreed

    by noman on Oct 5, 2008 at 1:44 pm

  404. What a pity that we are still debating it? Have we gone mad? Why are we calling this terrorit SHAHEED?

    I think we deserve what ever is happening with us. We have corrupted our souls, our minds and our hearts to a level where we are unable to call a spade a spade.

    We deserve these terrorist attacks.

    by Akbar on Oct 11, 2008 at 4:39 am

  405. i believe all of ghazi lovers hv gone for suicide bombings namely haq , ayesha habib , dark cloud, waqas and all g6 fellows :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
    but i dont agree tht we deserve these terrorist attacks….yes ppl r foolish but even then lets not lose hope ……….

    judges ki bahali nahi hui na thtsy :))))))))))))

    zardari;s Pakistan is really khapping …….

    Akbar this is ghazi bolg thtsy ppl comment here….debate is over………

    lets pray together tht we shd get rid of this filth very soon inshallah.

    by noman on Oct 11, 2008 at 10:49 pm

  406. i HAVE NOT READ THE COMMENTS ABOVE , THE ONLY THING I KNOW ALL THE DEMANDS OF GHAZI BORTHERS WERE RIGHT BUT THERE WAY CAN BE WRONG.
    RASHEED GHAZI IS 100% SHAHEED LIKEWISE ALL THE MALE/FEMALE STUDENTS KILLED THERE.

    I SALUTE GHAZI SHAHIB!!

    by Arif on Oct 22, 2008 at 4:56 pm

  407. i will try to get CD of LAS Masjid real story on utube then every one is free to comment

    by Arif on Oct 22, 2008 at 5:32 pm

  408. thay were right……i believe……

    by adnan danish on Oct 23, 2008 at 4:17 pm

  409. hahahaha
    meaningless debate started again………..arif post is really funny…….

    by noman on Oct 25, 2008 at 2:46 pm

  410. arif

    nobody denies tht the punishment for theft is cutting off tht hand of the culprit…ghazi rasheed by all means had stolen land from cda……at the minimum his hand shd hv been cut off later to defend his theft he killed armymen amongst other crimes like abduction , burning property etc etc therefore the means as indicated by u justify his death as per sharia rules……ghazi actions were incorrect…

    jiskay means hi ghalat hon plus harkat who cares abt his demands

    its said…………jairy aithay pairay o lahore vi pairay tai lal masjid chay vi pairay…………….

    by noman on Oct 25, 2008 at 6:09 pm

  411. what a silly bunch of people its good that army killed him
    pakistan zinda bad pak army zinda bad

    by sameer on Oct 27, 2008 at 12:22 am

  412. ofcourse it was gud ridance to bad stinking rubbish…..

    by noman on Oct 28, 2008 at 1:23 pm

  413. no doubt “SHAHEED”
    He lived a life of “SAEED” and died a death of “SHAHEED”
    May ALLAH(swt) accept his SHAHADAT. give him the higher
    place in jannat,he deserve
    ameen

    by dr_jawwad71 on Oct 28, 2008 at 1:55 pm

  414. all qadiyanis, nationalists , secular extremists ,animals of materialism ,islamo phobics are happy on the shahadat of ghazi abdul rasheed.
    but soon inshaALLAH the time will come when these elements see their place untenable in pakistan, inshaALLAH the time will come when these elements will pay.

    by dr_jawwad71 on Oct 28, 2008 at 2:15 pm

  415. dr sahib the strength of ur emaan and the standard of ur interpretition of islam clearly indicates tht ur from amongst those who support suicide bombings against fellow muslims and other islamic activities ion the name of islam……

    ppl like u andd ghazi rasheed are responsible for the deaths of hundreads of ppl killed in the name of islam by suicide bombers….however none yet on this blog hv been able to support tht terrorist in the light of Quran n sunna…

    i challange u to prove his actions in the light of the above ….u will fail as others inshallah coz allah is not on the side of jaheeleens…….

    by noman on Oct 31, 2008 at 6:41 am

  416. @noman

    “dr sahib the strength of ur emaan and the standard of ur
    interpretition of islam”
    tell me what do you do if some one try to demolish a 100 yrs old mosque in your neighborhood???
    tell me what you do when a brothel or a massage parlor start working in your neighborhood?
    i don’t know about you but any muslim with pudency will do exactly like these people did.
    what happened when a cd vendor start to rent porn movies
    what will you do then???i think you are enlightened moderate enough it will never bother you but there are people who become restless and try their best to uproot these kinds of crimes.
    what ghazi abdul rasheed demanded? one can differ the methodology (including me)but his demand is just right.
    what crimes he commited ( have a look at the crimes of gen musharraf, zardari,nawaz shareef and altaf hussain)???
    your enlightened moderate gen: musharraf killed brutally with hundreds of women and children with phosphros bomb.
    is it you enlightened moderation???
    then tell me what is a difference between you and a
    suicide bomber.
    ( ghazi abdul rasheed never had any suicide bomber,nor foriegn terorrist.Who told you that???
    who told you that i appericiate suicide bombing????
    is it necessary for a person with your level of intellect to express thoughts in this kind of forum?????????

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Oct 31, 2008 at 6:01 pm

  417. Dr sahib

    Im against the demolishing of any mosque whatsoever..however im also against mosques / madrissas constructed over grabbed land.am against the opening of brothels anywhere not only in my neibhourhood….but im also against the abduction of women even if they are prostitutes for whatever naik maqsad……

    U hv talked about the crimes of musharraf, zardar , nawaz etc but u hv strangely missed ghazi rasheed and aziz, qazi hussain amongst other religious bigots.i believe all of them should be punished for their individual crimes….its strange tht we always target personalities not the issues involved…..

    I don’t disagree with anyone’s sensible demands however u cannot rob a bank to feed the poor .i hv some simple questions

    1. is it ghazi shariat or the one in Quran and sunna?
    2. y the opening of brothels was a sudden discovery by ghazi sahib?
    3. who were the witnesses of aunty shamim;s bad deeds as per shariah?
    4. y the brother of an mma mna was let off in the raid on the Chinese parlor.
    5. on whose behest only the Chinese parlor was targeted? Wat abt numerous Pakistan , Russian , tajik and afrghani parlors operating in isb
    6. mention the relevant ayas supporting all of ghazi;s demands and actions
    7. mention reasons y ghazi shd not be punished for his actions?
    8. u really know wat a phosphorous bomb is???????? The only device in use with
    Pakistan army is a small grenade which is used for smoke .

    As far as suicide bombers are concerned I hv myself heard ghazi aziz;s sermon claiming tht he had 50 / 60 suicide bombers inside…this was telecast live on all news channels….hamid mir also mentioned about girl coming frm lal masjid wearing a suicide jacket……so how come all those inside were innocent???????? To my mind they were all terrorist….waisay bhi all channels before the operation telecast images of the same students holding all types of weapon and burning / looting govt property adjacent to lal masjid…how come they are innocent……….they are the same innocent students responsible for the deaths of numerous policemen /army personal during the operations……

    Hamaray apkay ghar ki aurtein to danday lai k kabhi pims kabhi poly clinic dandnati nahi phirti…bari shirafat hain……..jamia hifza;s 313 brigade is quite famous …courtesy the interviews of its members on aljazeera…..

    The easiest way to shut down a brothel if there is one to change the environment surrounding it…..y 5 / 10 hooligans could not sit outside such brothels and stop ppl from goin in????? strangely only aunty shamim gained the fame of a bad one………why none of her clients if any were shown on tv by the same chap………ghazi also gave a fatwa against neelofar bhaktiar…who gives this bloody criminal the license to kill/criticize anyone he wants to???????/ tomorrow someone like him will outlaw wearing of jeans by men or talking in English maybe the next step would be a mendatory beard/burqa…….

    The funniest thing is tht u support a man;s demand for shariah who by all means was not following shariah himself………….i believe a better way to make an example of such ppl who try to defame islam and its teachings is public flogging and public hanging……….

    KHAS KAM JAHAN PAK!!!!!!

    by noman on Nov 1, 2008 at 8:41 pm

  418. @noman
    good to hear that you are against the demolition of mosques if CDA felt the same way this tragedy and bloodshed could be detered.
    don’t you think that CDA suddenly start working according to law? isn’t strange?? this land could be easily reinstated by courts but what CDA did,they provocate the peoples and tried to demolish 100 yr old mosque. but wait….are we talking about CDA???
    Isn,t the CDA is same,old and most corrupt department of pak govt?
    Isn,t right that the CDA bosses are one of the richest goverment officer in the world???
    isn,t the same CDA who snubbed rampant peculation of margalla hills agriculture land???
    what made CDA to work according to law???
    strange hunhh?….
    No doubt Ghazi brothers crossed some limits but don’t you think that laughing and dancing over their dead bodies are loathful act???
    4 witness are called by the courts of law for the accusation of fornication and adultry??
    and you want to apply this condition on brothels.
    did you ever see a prostitute having sex in market????
    who taught you quran and sunnah…..javed ghamdi???
    can you point out a single FIR against qazi hussain ahmed??
    why chinese ????is it international conspiracy?? no because chinese parlor was in the vicinity of lal masjid.
    by the way massage parlor are not allowed even china…strange isn’t it???
    aayat ??? ahadeeth??? my dear i m sorry to say you belong to the category of interpretationist no matter how many quranic verse and ahadeeth mubarka i quote,the end will be on interpretation. by the way you might heard the most quoted aaya about amr bil maroof wa niha un al munkir..
    or hadeeth about three degrees of iman

    never heard of phosphorus bomb??? see the (rtd)lt:gen jamshed kiyanis interview on geo tv with dr shahid masood.
    aired few months ago ( the most shocking interview i have ever heard.his testimony will be enough to convict pervaez musharraf as a war criminal)

    sucide bomber was merely a bluff to scare the authorities as ghazi brother sense that some thing is going wrong??
    you heard his bluff but you never heard that how he was almost begging the media to come inside in order refute the allegations of governament at the start of the bloody operation.
    one strange phenomenon observed that media was kept blindfolded since the begining of the operation.
    strange thing was that even after the end of operation media was kept away from jamia hafsa.
    every one who have love for ALLAH(SWT) AND HIS shariyah should be punished.
    you are angry for lowlives like neelofer bakhtiyar , aunty shameem who were only threatened but you don’t feel sorry for hundreds of innocent ladies,girls and children who were actually brutally murdered by armed forces.???
    i don’t know which clan of muslim you belong…
    serious question were asked after lal masjid saga..
    how the weapons in huge quantity brought in the islam abad while people like me can not enter with weapon like knife..
    unhuman, swinish and barbaric use of force of pakistan army while they could be easily be surrendered by blockade and cutting the electricity,water and other things.

    like me most of pakistani believe that ghazi brothers was instrigated by aegencies they didn’t realise the deadly trap in the begining when realized it was already too late because our bloody son of a gun general pervez need sacrifices in the alter of slavery to please his masters.
    he never wanted this issue to be resolved peacefully.
    done is done every one played thier part, but what are you doing is such a disgusting and nauseous even americans have manners they don’t do it.you know what are you doing???
    you are laughing and dancing over the dead bodies of hunderds of innocent muslims who caught in this tragedy…
    so hurting and shocking…..

    any way i think pakistan is brink of revolution many people like me believe that count down is begin for qadiyanis, nationalists , secular extremists ,animals of materialism and islamo phobics to wrap up and sooner there will be islam which govern on islamic republic of pakistan
    ameen

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 2, 2008 at 6:36 pm

  419. first of all im not laughing at the death and carnage duriing and after the operation but ur naive belief tht all those inside lal masjid were innocent is strange…..this blog is not abt cda .its corruption etc would require a seperate blog and is not a part of discussion…. there is a lot wrong with the system in the country and agree with me or not ghazi brothers were a part of the rot tht is the same system………..your claim that media was kept blindfolded is far frm true…i distinctly remember a program on geo in which ghazi rasheed was interviewd inside the mosque, during the abduction of aunty shamim and various policemen media went inside the mosque and interviewed both umme hassan and aunty shamim along with some students….y ghazi sahib did not conduct a tour of the entire premesis at tht time????????? u hv also convieniently forgotten the weapons shown by all channels before the operation…….the fact of the matter is tht ghazi n those inside were common criminals and had nothing to do with islam or religion..a lot of questions which should be asked , like y and how weapons were present in the mosque????

    y and who ordered cda to demolish the mosque????
    why cda permitted the construction of jamia hifza/lal masjid on encroached land???/
    for what purpose was the mosque being used for the past 20/30 yrs esp during the afghan jihad by cia?
    why ghazi was not punished for possession of rocket launchers?
    why he was not sent to jail after burning melody cinema in which two men died and burning of numerous shops in food street and aabpara?

    u mentioned 4 witnesws are reqd by law…plz correct urself…these witnesses are reqd by islamic law/sharia…u say tht sex is not performed in public…how laughable and naive…plz mention the places where sex is performed openly???it has always been performed in rooms tht is covered and hidden places…..the requirement of 4 witnesses does stand…….this law is from the quran…me u and ghazi cannot do anything do abt it……anything against aunty shamim is tohmat until proven as per sharia reqt…u called neelofar bhaktiar a lowlife.wat for???????????just for some pics during a para jump?????funny , coz u support a criminal , murderer,abducter…..

    u claim tht ghazi did not hv suicide bombers inside…yet he claimed the same on all channels…how funny tht the guy is facing an army and rather than giving up his arms and coming out as his brother and bhabi did later he chose to stay inside…the killing of all inside mosque lies squarely on the shoulders of this sick creature using the name of islam for watever interest he had……..

    as for late jsamshed gulzar kiani the guy was made a gen by musharraf, served under him and did not hv the guts to wuestion his boss throughout his tenure…he did not resign i wonder y???he developed differences after being appointed chairman fpsc….and came on tv just to oppose musharraf for political gains…my clarification regarding phosphorous bomb still stands……

    ur beloved media has put students frm lal madsjid infront of camera mny a times…thee jihalat and extremist views stand exposed….plz watch hamid mir;s comments on nadia khan show….

    the hadith u mentioned is y im on this blog coz i bel tht this is also a part of amar bil maroof …y shd a sick person like ghazi beallowed to hijack islam…as far as qazi sahib is concerned cia k paisay kha k ab tak xzinda hai…..unn par fir kiun ho ge…….he along with other molvis serves his american master in the name of islam…..u were surprised on cda sudden actions but ghazi;s sudden awakening to islam and brothels escaped ur attention……..
    the most innocent ppl who died during the op were the uniformed personal who had no choice but to lay down their lives to protect ppl like us………for 7 days the govt offered them surrender…all those who came out are still alive even if some in jail…….y the ghamar ghazi couldnt come out????????????
    u asked abt my clan of islam…..im surprised…why ru bent on tafarka…islam is one and same for all….i do not sympathise with anyone of u who can call ppl kafir if they disagree with u but those innocent suicide bombers are all shaheeds…..all those brave surrendered students say tht those killed by them were kuffar …strangely all those outside lal mosque are kafirs as per their definition…….i cannot feel sorry for such inhuman ppl………..

    khas kam jahan pak

    by noman on Nov 3, 2008 at 7:39 am

  420. “ur naive belief tht all those inside lal masjid were
    innocent is strange…..

    what are you trying to say that women,girls and children(2-6 yrs are also terorrists?
    for the sake of arguments if i accept this notion that they are all terorrist was the use of barbaric,swinish and relentless use of militory power justified??
    did you ever see the use of military hardware in situation like these, in any where in the world??

    did you see the use of phosphorus bombs in situation like these(please don’t tell me that you never heard that. alot of ppl know that ask any one of them or see for ur self the interview of jamshed kayani)
    what does it mean?? it means that this issue is not so simple. use of chemical warfare in anti terorrist operation
    shows there was some other driving forces beside stablishing the writ of state.

    “your claim that media was kept blindfolded is far frm
    true…..
    i said media was kept blindfolded with the begining of operation.don,t you remember that whole area was besieged and cordon off by militory and media was not even in the vicinity of lal masjid.i remember geo was showing roof top footage shooted from long range.don’t you remember that..?

    i didn’t say that there was no weapon.what i was asking that how these weapons brought in the islamabad while ppl like me can not enter with simple knife???
    the fact is that ghazi brothers were obliged and instigated by intelligence agencies for thier dirty games.

    “as for late jsamshed gulzar kiani the guy was made a
    gen by musharraf, served under him and did not hv the
    guts to wuestion his boss throughout his tenure…
    there was burned pieces of bodies watched by all media and ppl of islamabad was enough to believe jamshed kiyani’s claim.his credibility could be assessed only by court of law
    i hope that time will come when this wild pig(gen pervez) will be brought to justice.i hope a trial for this war mangol.

    “u mentioned 4 witnesws are reqd by law…plz correct urself…these witnesses are reqd by islamic law/sharia…u say tht sex is not performed in public…how laughable and naive…plz mention the places where sex is performed openly???

    i asked you before and i m asking you again is it necessary
    to talk on quran o sunnah??
    is it obligatory??
    are you sheikh ul hadeeth, mufti or alim e din???
    yes i meant islamic court of law (thank you)
    what i was asked a simple question, ” did you ever saw a prostitute having sex????
    does prostitute have sex in public???
    offcourse “NO” (even a block head could easily understand my point)
    tell me if you,me and many many people didn,t see a prostitute having sex how can you produce 4 witnesses in front of court of law???(islamic offcourse)
    these islamic jurisprudence deal with the normal people living in the soceity and you want to apply on brothels???
    i want to know the name of the asshole who taught you quran and sunnah.
    it,s not merely a para jumping after the para jumping she hugged a “GORA” (and please don’t tell that you never saw her hugging) i called her lowlife because of this public demonstration of “enlightened moderation”

    lot of ppl specially media closely observed the situation on ground and their testimony shows entirely different pic
    and please don’t forget that because of this unhuman and brutal act “silent majority” gave a slap to the face of gen pervaiz on 18th feb.irony is that in today’s daily jang dated 3/11/2008 hamid mir wrote an article in which he asked gen pervez some questions in face to face meeting with this wild pig.it,s worth reading i gaurunty you.

    http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/nov2008-daily/03-11-2008/col2.htm

    i believe that time will come when islam will prevail in this country.lal masjid and jamia hafsa was just a starting point.and i believe that true muslims from any school of thought will be separated from from the munafiqeen.inshaALLAH

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 3, 2008 at 1:10 pm

  421. @noman
    you can work better for so called human rights organisations.please stop using the words like quran and sunnah. we are what we are ….it,s a fate.its a destiny you can’t turn your back on your fate and your destiny.
    may ALLAH(swt)do our fate with shohada and sulaha
    ameen

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 3, 2008 at 1:31 pm

  422. Well first of all I cannot understand ur argument tht we shd not talk abt Quran and sunnah. Not being an alim or mufti does not stop us from seeking guidance from Quran…it is the glorious Quran and the prophet;s (p.b.u.h) which shd guide all our actions….having said tht lets get the issue straight

    U claim tht children age 2-6 were inside but I distinctly recall ghazi during the operation claiming tht no kids were inside….same was highlighted/questioned by the media……however even if for argument sake we bel u then who was holding them inside???????????/ when umme hassan can come out burqa molvi can run why dint these kids come out????????? It means the criminal sick ghazi was holding them as human shields……….how brave and Islamic……….if this is an amal e saleh I can just doubt ur iq and common sense

    Do u really know wat chemical warfare is?????????? Hv u ever seen chemical weapon at work????????????? The only time these hv been employed in subcontinent was during kargil by the Indians…if a chemical weapon had been use in jamia hafza the entire g 6 would hv suffocated.the army does not buy weapons to be used in small rooms.military weapons are area weapons affecting large areas.the phosphorous based grenade used in the operation is standard issue used to produce smoke to conceal movement of troops…it can cause burns / blisters etc and in rare cases can cause fire…however it was a legitimate weapon and shd hv been used to conceal troop movement…y shd innocent soldiers be subjected to the fire of terrorist…u seem to forget almost 13 /14 uniformed personal died in the operation….u hv again convieniently forgotten the weapon holding darhi walas shown by all channels in and around the lal mosque.

    U are extremely funny!!!!!!!!!!!!

    U shd also accuse ghazi tht he did not assist media by shooting video frm the lal mosque …if he could hv weapons inside, mobile phones y not cameras……however for ur kind information the media must hv been removed for their own safety…….
    Y ghazi did not call the media inside before the operation for a guided tour…maybe he was busy with aunty shamim and planning more kidnapping……..6 months before the operation there wasn’t army in or around the mosque stopping journalist .ghazi at tht time had the qabza of children;s library and the masjid rd was a jihadi area.the entire media at tht time was screaming for an operationto rid Islamabad of this menace.y ghazi at tht time did not invite them inside.

    I totally agree with u on one count tht ghazi brothers had been instigated for their stupid criminal acts…….however this does not make ghazi innocent…im not defender of govt or agencies ..they shd also be taken to task..similarly the ghazi leftover shd also be punished

    As far as jamshed kiani …may Allah bless his soul….the man did himself a great dis service by speaking nonsensefor political gains in his last yr…the guy was core commd rwp.directly responsible for security in rwp/isb…he also served in isi as a maj gen…yet he wanted us to belt ht he was not aware of anything goin on in the lal mosque.he himself was one of those responsible arguebaly for letting the weapons in …as far as his opposition to musharraf is concerned I disagree…..was musharraf stupid enough to promote an opponent frm maj gen to lt gen?????????? n then appoint him as chairman fpsc.how funny.

    As far as claims go .hamid mir on nks claimed a girl coming frm jamia hifza wearing a suicide jacket………….maybe she was one of the innocent girls u seem to feel sorry abt…how innocent…..waisay uss masoom larki ko suicide jacket kahan sai milli????????????? STRANGE

    Ur refernce to 4 witnesses ……dear brother its not me who requires it…it is mandatory as per Quran……..otherwise anyone would allege tht someone in their muhalla is a prostitute or a girl of bad character and punish them accordingly…just like they do kari in sindh……any allegation in which hud cannot be proven is tohmat , punishable by 80 koras….however take ur argument with the Quran not me….as I believe it its ur choice if u don’t….moreover the use of abusive language in the same line with the word Quran shows ur islam and Quran loving credentials

    U wrote “ I want to know the name of tht …………….who taught u quran”

    Neelofar bhakitiar was hugged by a gora …does tht make the woman a non muslim or a lowlife as u say???????the language u r usingis highly offensive…..u call ppl pig , qadiyani , kafir etc etc and u forget the quran which strictly forbids u frm using abusive language…….BASICALLY YOU ARE WORRIED/BOTHERED ABT NIFAZ E SHARIAT , QURAN OR SUNNAT……YOU ARE JUST DEFENDING PERSONALITIES U LIKE…….

    I do not defend musharraf but if the slap on his face was maulana ZARDARI u are welcome coz Pakistan really khappay……..as far as saint hamid mir owner of two farm houses in chak shehzad is concerned I personally emailed him askin him to hv a live programme in which ppl shd be allowed to question him live abt the role of media in the past 1.5 yrs…the gr8 man did not reply

    I hv not understood wat u mean by the last two paras….how can we talk abt islam leaving Quran and sunnah??????????

    Nobody has an ijaradari on islam/Quran…………

    Ghazi sahib ki jang shariat kit hi…..and u want to exclude Quran and sunnat frm the discussion…………….. laughs out loud!!!!!!!!

    Plz use decent language while contributing on the blog……..arguement cannot be won by abusive language

    by noman on Nov 3, 2008 at 10:01 pm

  423. my deeply rooted hatred and abomination for enlightened moderates and even more for so called scholars who interpretrate Islam to please the moderates not ALLAH(swt) made me to say which was wrong. I apologize to all pigs. pigs are pigs God created them, no body can change them.
    However, pervez musharraf is a biped pig, is a handy work of iblis there could be no resemblance. Really, I insulted the pigs
    My apologies to all pigs.

    Even though I think ghazi brothers crossed some limits my heart goes out for all people killed in lal masjid and jamia hafsa. No matter how violent they are in their methodology of imposing shariyah they could be coaxed by Diasporas and sincere Muslims who have hearts and souls. Every Pakistani (true Muslim) was deeply shocked and grieved by barbaric act of gen pervez.I feel the same way but you are celebrating the annihilation of these people who are our Muslim brothers and sisters.
    Don’t mind if I say that I only saw the qadiyanis to be happy on this tragedy.
    While the whole country is agreed that pervez musharraf was a puppet, a dictator who damage the Pakistan in unprecedented way and he should be brought to justice. I found a admirer of gen pervez…..Admirers who can be counted on fingers in billion of population.

    DENIAL DENIAL DENIAL………
    1) at the beginning of the operation some girls decided to come out side of jamia hafsa willingly
    2) many of the girls decided to stay but were compelled to come out side by umme Hassan
    3) many girls came out side never reached to their destiny.
    4) still there were orphan girls and babies (most of them founded injured and lost after 2005 earth quake and they brought in jamia hafsa where they were provided food shelter and guardianship .umme Hassan was like a mother to them and jamia hafsa was only place they got. These poor souls refused to leave even umme Hassan molana aziz tried hard to convince.
    My heat goes out for these poor souls.
    And I couldn’t understand what make you behave like a SICK BASTARD
    Are you sure you are not qadiyani???
    Umme Hassan escaped and left behind her 18 yrs old son, molana abdul aziz escaped and left behind his son, his brother and his mother (senile and diseased) all were also killed by soldiers of Pakistan army. What are you trying to prove???
    Did ghazi abdul rasheed also using his mother and nephew as a human shield??

    White phosphorus (WP) is a flare- and smoke-producing incendiary weapon, or smoke-screening agent, made from a common allotrope of the chemical element phosphorus. White phosphorus bombs and shells are incendiary devices, but can also be used as an offensive anti-personnel flame compound capable of causing serious burns or death.
    White phosphorus weapons are controversial today because of their potential use against civilians. While the Chemical Weapons Convention does not designate WP as a chemical weapon, various unofficial groups consider it to be one. In recent years, the United States, Israel, Russia, and Argentina have used white phosphorus in combat.
    Its use by the US has resulted in considerable controversy (see white phosphorus use in Iraq). Initial field reports from Iraq referred to white phosphorus use against insurgents, but its use was officially denied until November, 2005, when the Pentagon admitted to the use of white phosphorus while stating that its use for producing obscuring smoke is legal and does not violate the Chemical Weapons Convention. A Pentagon spokesman has also admitted that WP “was used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants,” though not against civilians.
    That is what I call a half truth. Any one can check about phosphorus bomb through internet (more precisely through wikipedia)
    Do I still sound very funny????

    “Y ghazi did not call the media inside before the
    operation for a guided tour…maybe he
    Was busy with aunty shamim and planning more
    kidnapping……..

    that is what I call laughing and dancing over their dead bodies. Are you sure you are not qadiyani????

    Core commanders do not deal with internal security neither any other serving army officer except those who are transferred to ISI or MI
    Smear campaign for every person who raise his voice against gen musharraf (Gen with excellent service record or journalist with good reputation, integrity and credibility)
    Wow that is the news our hamid mir have 2 farms in chak shehzad. (Poor hamid mir is unnecessarily paying the house rent in Islamabad.
    Do you know the punishment for a slanderer in Quran?

    I will say that Quran in the hand interpretationist is far more damaging then in the hand of American soldier in Guantanamo bay.
    Honor killing is entirely a different pretext is some thing to do with the typical tribal mentality, influenced by their traditions and customs with utter ignorance with Islam and shariyah. In sind they also make their daughters to marriage with Quran to save their family assets. Should we stop printing Quran??
    Do we have bad character women in our neighborhood???? Yes, we have, even in nice and decent families. What we do about that in our real life? we use to say “dafa kar yar jahanum ka shoq hey to janey de…
    You are still unable to understand that it is a “ family honor” who kills the women not the poor understanding of islam.
    Did you ever saw a woman who was killed by people OTHER THEN HER RELATIVES on the allegation of adultery and fornication??
    Still couldn’t understand why we need 4 witness in order to remove a brothel from our area???. Ask ghamdi , I am sure he may have some strange kind of logic.

    Zardari was selected by America to replace pervez. not elected by people of Pakistan.

    Hamid mir didn’t respond??? As he was also perpetrator against gen pervez, he might got scared when you send a e mail.

    “Neelofar bhakitiar was hugged by a gora …does that make the woman a non muslim or
    a lowlife as u say?????
    Hugging by gora can not make a woman infidel, but can surely make her low life and supporting the hugging can make any one a “PIMP”
    If my argument is wrong then let the gora hug your mother and sister publicly and set an example.

    I just advised you not to talk on Quran and sunnah because you don’t know about Islamic jurisprudence and it’s applications and on the basis of half knowledge you are ridiculising the poor souls.
    Although Christians and Jews orientalists have more knowledge but it doesn’t make them true Muslim. It’s a sincerity and taqwa and fear of ALLAH(swt) who make a person a true Muslim

    It’s a my deeply rooted hate and abomination for qadiyanis, secular fascists, enlightened moderates, animals of materialism, islamo-phobics and for scholars who want to please these elements of the dark side, made me say the words I don’t use normally. I ask almighty for forgiveness.(ALLAH ho ghafoor ur raheem)

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 4, 2008 at 2:36 pm

  424. *phew* Who won?!

    by Nadcracker on Nov 6, 2008 at 12:56 pm

  425. Once an american siad that pakistani can sell their mothers for money.
    i think he was not entirely wrong.we have some bipeds in islamic democratic of pakistan who are ever ready to sell anything for a small interest.these animals feel proud to be a pimp of a nation and brothels

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 7, 2008 at 12:08 am

  426. i quote you from ur second last para ” it’s a sincerity and taqwa & fear of allah who make a person a true muslim”

    i agree!!!!!!!!!moreover

    the qualifying degrees for emaan are explicitely stated in the Quran…kalema e shihadat is the basis of emaan…emaan e mufasil and emaan e mujamil as taught to us are better definitions.however the use of bad language proves tht u do not fit the above definition.in ur attempt to prove ghazi correct ur defying the orders of Allah and his rasool(p.b.u.h)…ur involving urself in slander,abusive language, calling others kafir etc etc therefore before putting up an arguement i would like to decide the terms of the arguement….. an arguement cannot be decided on the basis of abusive language as u use it nor on my or ur say so….we hv to refer to the Quran or saheeh hadith and sunnah.thts how Allah has ordered us to do in the Quran……ur very much against interpretitions.wat do u consider the 4 great aaimas .all of them interpreted the Quran in different manners…even ghazi sahib throughout his life adopted one interpretition from amongst atleast 4.his and ur extremist beliefs tht anybody who opposes u or him are kuffar smacks of igniorance and jihalat…..from ur post its evident tht ur anti musharraf , zardari etc but my dear brother if these two jhonnys are criminals tht does not make ghazi correct……none of these individuals committed watever crimes u speak of in the name of islam…ghazi sahib did…as far as the presence of ppl inside the masjid any one who did not come out after the govts call for surrender shd hv been taken as a terrorist but u believe tht they were fighting for a just cause…..but tht just cause was forgotten by the same ppl in the name of safe passage and gaoon ja k pursakoon zindgi guzarnay ki appeal…. uss waqt brothels khatam ho gayay thay…ya hakomat sharaee ho gaee thee?????????? if ur arguement tht their deeds were correct is agreed to then all those who came out including molvi burqa and umme hassan are munafaqeen…y the hell did they come out? wat are u trying to prove??????????????????????????????????????? many innocent lives hv been lost during suicide bombings by these so called jihadis tht u speak of . as per u the claim by molvi burqa tht he has 50 suicide bombers was just tactics……… he shd hv been shot even on these mere words as proof……aside from some brain washed orphans who the hell was supporting him?????????/ where were the deeni jaamat????????? and rest of the maulanas…..in the past 1 month the papers are full of raids on brothels by the police…it means tht even after his death they still exist…imagine umme hassan living in the same city and compromising …wat was so special then ? y and at whose ishara did the ghazis make a stand for shariah???????????? america , india israel ya ur beloved qadiyani?u talk abt ghamidi even maulana israr , zakir naik , or any other major / renowned alim e deen agree with the way ghazi did things…even u dont…13 soldiers/policemen were killed during the operation…some of them were killed even before the firing on the mosque started…ghazi is solely responsible for their deaths…..if musharraf shd be tried for any wrongful death wat abt ghazi ….he shd only be coaxed?????????/disgusting

    u talk abt my sister and mother…..wat were ur family members doing when ghazi was waging his war for terror…y did u not make an example??????????? maybe ur making using bad language…..

    as far as ghazi’s mother and nephew/son ….some theories suggest tht they were being held by ghazis fellow terrorist who had gone out of his control on seeing the govt reaction….just to ensure their safe exit……ppl suggest tht benazir bhutto might hv been killed by zardari coz he was the biggest gainer……..ghazi brothers also had political motives……apni jaan k liyay maa beta bhi bhool jatay hain…….and the clear example is this family……….

    as far as gen jamshed is concerned ur info regarding the army is incorrect…wat abt the role of 111 brigade which has troops all over isb…it is responsible for the security of both pindi and isb….this is directly under core commd pindi…jamshed sahib was one for more than 1 yr…he was also a maj gen in the isi yet all things happening in and around isb always escaped his attention….shahid masood is now a minister/musheer…..he was also anti musharraf ofcourse for political gains..similarly hamid mir who is so innocent and dedicated as per u convieniently forgets zardari;s and nawaz sharif’s corruption…kiani sahib kiska paisa lai k bol rahay thay aur kis motive k liyay bol rahay thay is evident by the timing and manner of his interviews…why did his concious wake up after retirement???????i would hv agreed to his honesty if he had resigned frm the army…tht wud hv been honourable…..

    phosphorous bomb tht u speak of does not exist with the pakistan army…the gernades they used contained wp1 and it does hv these effects which u speak of but there use for smoke and concealing movement of troops is justified…remembertht these ppl inside the mosque were armed , dangerous , sick terrorist.

    galian na denay ka bhi shaid apko alim e deen hi batein gai …ur parents must hv forgotten..quote a single abuse by the prophet(p.b.u.h) against abu jehal or abdullah bin abbi….my ideal personality even forgave hind who murdered his beloved uncle hamza..

    Allah orders us to read , understand and ponder upon the teachings of Quran…Allah has not addressed alims in the holy Quran…the Quran is a guidance for everyone…please read the first 7 ayas of surat baqra………

    ghazis actions shd be judged as per the Quran……..

    by nauman on Nov 7, 2008 at 5:01 pm

  427. @ nauman
    blah blah blah blah blah………..

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 7, 2008 at 5:31 pm

  428. jawad u hv finally run out of answer as ghazi cannot be defended by logic or islam….

    the language u use depicts ur lack of respect for islam and humanity…..all ur posts and the examples u quote are signs of ur sick mentality…

    all ghazi supporters in this blog hv been using similar language i.e abuse and slander …the funniest thing is tht all of u try to defend ghazi’s so called islamic actions….

    laughs out loud

    jihalat aur gandi mentality ka muqabla waqai app sai koi nahi kar sakta……

    shame on you!!!

    by noman on Nov 7, 2008 at 8:02 pm

  429. hahahahahahahahaha
    right now i am laughing at your self proclaimed victory
    keep dreaming……..

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 7, 2008 at 11:13 pm

  430. its not abt winning or losing.however if u feel tht u hv no answers or justifications as per Quran and sunnah i believe ur correct…..

    im not here to offend / abuse anybody…..nor im supporter of any politician however im against all those who for their political interests defame the name of muslims….

    in ur case u must learn manners , decency and norms of public conversation….

    ur helplessness is evident from ur last two posts…..my experience says

    1. tht ghazi lovers cannot speak in a decent manner/language.
    2.my questions still unanswered.

    by noman on Nov 8, 2008 at 10:51 am

  431. you are such a impossible person.it reminds me a story.
    once two person,over an incident exchanged bitter arguments one guy was a lean and short while the other guy looked like a wrestler huge and strong.
    suddenly short and lean guy blew a fuse and started abusing the huge one. the huge got out raged and he punched on his face.short guy paused for few second and challanged the huge guy if he dare,do it again.huge guy again punched his face and keep beated him till both got aggravated.
    passer-by came and helped the short guy and lift him up while he was pissed off.an ambulance was called and he was taken in to ambulance short guy stood up and said;
    bach gaya sala, aaj to mar hi jata mere hathon
    LOLZZZZZZZ……. hahahahhhahahahahhah

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 8, 2008 at 11:54 am

  432. Hey nauman!
    If you want further discussion, you should give up your disguise.Do not talk to me behind the masks.
    You want further discussion, declare your true identity.
    I am almost convinced that you are a qadiyani. Prove me wrong by saying:

    “I solemnly affirm that Nabi Kareem MOHAMMED (PBUH) is a
    Last prophet sent by ALLAH (SWT) and there is no prophet
    After Nabi Kareem (pbuh) and that the curse and wrath of
    ALLAH (SWT) be upon any person who claim to be a prophet
    After Nabi Kareem (pbuh)”

    What you have to do is just copy the Para under comas and paste it. I accept all your term & conditions for further debate,in return you have to agree upon only for this.

    Hey, @nauman what do you say?

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 8, 2008 at 12:12 pm

  433. 1. First Kalima TAYYABA, The declaration of Sanctity.There is no deity but Allah and Mohammed is His Messenger.

    the kalima written above is not for ur satisfaction.it is my emaan and im proud of it …i do not need ur certificate to prove myself a muslim…….i hv never stated tht the terms and conditions for any discussion would be be urs or mine…Allah ordains tht whenever in doubt refer everything to the Holy book i.e Quran or the sunnah of prophet (p.b.u.h) …these terms hv been set by Allah not myself…allah;s commandments are binding on all muslims…strangely u and all ghazi supporters hesitate to support the arguement by Quran and sunnah…..

    ur only confusing/twisting the issue to divert attention from the misdeeds of ghazi brothers……

    i still expact tht u will continue the use of filthy/abusive language and try to make up jokes as u lack logic and knowledge….

    u hv been indulging in slander against myself and others as i believe u will continue to do the same……

    read the Quran and find out the punishment for tohmat…ur an eligible candidate for it…….

    ghazi and his supporters call everyone kafir who does not agree with them……….strange

    please tell us after re reading ur own posts and the filth/abuses in them , do u consider ur self a good muslim?????? i will never call anybody a kafir aside from those who declare it but i can call u misguided muslim like ghazi……

    the fitna irtidad in hazrat abu bakar caliphate was dealt by him in an examplery manner…i also agree with 1973 constitution which declares qadianis/lahoris etc as non muslims…what i dont understand is u and all ghazi lovers declaring anybody who opposes them as a qadiani…surprisingly ur more interested in qadianis than Quran……..ru qadiani publicity agents???????????????

    all ur posts constitute filth and rubbish..y cant u support ghazi as per the Quran and sunna……..afterall he was fighting for implementation of shariah

    laughs out loud!!!!!!!

    by noman on Nov 8, 2008 at 5:23 pm

  434. 1. First Kalima TAYYABA, The declaration of Sanctity.There is no deity but Allah and Mohammed (p.b.u.h)is His last Messenger.

    the kalima written above is not for ur satisfaction.it is my emaan and im proud of it …i do not need ur certificate to prove myself a muslim…….i hv never stated tht the terms and conditions for any discussion would be be urs or mine…Allah ordains tht whenever in doubt refer everything to the Holy book i.e Quran or the sunnah of prophet (p.b.u.h) …these terms hv been set by Allah not myself…allah;s commandments are binding on all muslims…strangely u and all ghazi supporters hesitate to support the arguement by Quran and sunnah…..

    ur only confusing/twisting the issue to divert attention from the misdeeds of ghazi brothers……

    i still expact tht u will continue the use of filthy/abusive language and try to make up jokes as u lack logic and knowledge….

    u hv been indulging in slander against myself and others as i believe u will continue to do the same……

    read the Quran and find out the punishment for tohmat…ur an eligible candidate for it…….

    ghazi and his supporters call everyone kafir who does not agree with them……….strange

    please tell us after re reading ur own posts and the filth/abuses in them , do u consider ur self a good muslim?????? i will never call anybody a kafir aside from those who declare it but i can call u misguided muslim like ghazi……

    the fitna irtidad in hazrat abu bakar caliphate was dealt by him in an examplery manner…i also agree with 1973 constitution which declares qadianis/lahoris etc as non muslims…what i dont understand is u and all ghazi lovers declaring anybody who opposes them as a qadiani…surprisingly ur more interested in qadianis than Quran……..ru qadiani publicity agents???????????????

    all ur posts constitute filth and rubbish..y cant u support ghazi as per the Quran and sunna……..afterall he was fighting for implementation of shariah

    laughs out loud!!!!!!!

    by noman on Nov 8, 2008 at 5:24 pm

  435. again tricks! you are using the same tricks like many qadiyanis do.
    kalema tayyaba is surely a declaration of sanctity but it does not deal with imposters.
    your translation is wrong there was no “last” in kalema e tayyaba.
    therefore qadiyani used this kalema even their own temples (i personally saw kalema tayyaba written on the temple of qadiyani)

    what did i asked you?
    all i asked you was a simple copy the para under coma and paste it. why this is so hard for you?
    instead of clear statement you started giving bhashan.
    well @nauman bhashan time is over we have already exchanged many argument any one can go through these arguments.
    so stop beating the bush and say:
    “wrath and curse of ALLAH(SWT) on any one including mirza
    ghulam ahmed qadiyani who claim the prophethood after
    NABI E KAREEM MOHAMMED(PBUH)”

    just copy and paste
    easy isn,t it?

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 8, 2008 at 7:04 pm

  436. 1. First Kalima TAYYABA, The declaration of Sanctity.There is no deity but Allah and Mohammed (p.b.u.h)is His Messenger.

    for u to believe in allah;s words i hv to copy paste what u write…this is the strength of ur emaan…if i do not copy paste certain paras u will not believe what allah says in the quran coz ur ego is not being satisfied…..

    y do u visit qadiyani temples????????? STRANGE!!!!!!!
    RU GIVING ME ANY HINT?????????

    y copying paste is so hard for me??????

    y is it so hard for u to believe wat stated in Quran…..watever i write and say has no importance for u…unless and until i say wat u say…watever u hv written is not even part of kalima…….but u say it its important

    i believe Allah is one .holy prophet9p.b.u.h) is his last messanger and i believe in all the 4 books he revealed on us…i belive in all his messangers………

    all those who claim prophethood after prophet(p.b.u.h) are sinners and will be punish by Allah….this includes those whose temples u r very fond of visting maybe thts the reason y u cannot c the logic in Quran and still choose to support ghazi etc….

    waisay Allah has not made it compulsory top curse and put his wrath on somebody for becoming a muslim…..these lines are ur creations and not foundation of being a muslim or emaan…….

    im not interested in any discussion with u because the manner of ur posts indicate the level of knowledge rather the lack of it tht u possess abt islam…..qadiani temples mai janay k bajayay if u had read the Quran even once with translation u would hv been putting ur energies to gud use…………

    now we hv to be branded muslims i.e if we believe in ghazi then we fit in the definition of muslims………..

    i hv still not questioned ur emaan even when u urself confess of visiting qadiani temples but its easy for u to slander and put tohmat on others……..

    y shdnt i pray for the curse of Allah on those who use abusive language and indulge in slander in the name of islam??????????

    there is no arguement between me and u …..i only demanded manners and decency …………….

    u know tht u r wrong …ur position is based on lies but ur still defending it because of ego…….these are just attention diverting tactics u r using…..

    please inform us in ur next post y u consider urself a better muslim as u hv failed to prove ghazis actions as per Quran n sunna and u hv decided to change the path so lets find out the good qualities of being a muslim from u…highlight it frm ur posts ……….

    good attempt to confuse the issue: history repeating on this blog……..

    laughs out loud!!!!!!

    by noman on Nov 9, 2008 at 1:13 am

  437. being a muslim means the ability to slander , call people kafir,using filthy/abusive language, disrespecting every second women,defending personalities and avoiding the Quran and sunnat,visiting qadiani temples… everyone with them is muslim , everyone against them is an inferior , kafir…..

    hahahaha

    are these the qualities which makes a gud muslim?????????

    however ur attitude is normal considering tht u support ghazi…all his supporters and him hv the same traits..it wud hv been unusual if u wud hv talked sense/logic…..

    ur last few posts indicate tht u hv nothing to support ur arguement……so keep thinking about new ways/tactics to abuse ppl as thts wat ur best at….

    may Allah save us from such thaikaidars of islam and forgive the misdeeds of ghazi and all those including u for continously indulging in tohmat….

    Allah apko hidayat dai……..ameen

    by noman on Nov 10, 2008 at 4:45 am

  438. It is a late response as I was busy with vaccinations of my fellow workers and some problems in claims of the patients.

    Always laugh out loud!!!
    Good to hear that you are not qadiyani. It is not compulsory we use as a test to know whom we are talking to? For any kind of discussion especially which involves the religious issue, determination of mentality of opponent is very important. Whether is he qadiani, secular fascist, or hired hand by intelligence agencies?
    One thing always amazed every body that one is crying and chanting so much about quran and sunnah why he is so happy on death of thousands of rasikh ul aqeeda muslims.
    One who is repeatedly giving bhashans about quran and sunnah why is lying all the time ? why he is distorting the truth, why he is tampering the fact?
    I thought you were qadiyani because I saw even liberal Muslims sad on massacre that took more than 2000 lives mostly innocent girls and children.
    Every one liberal or rasikh ul aqeeda grieved the deaths of rasheed ghazee and his fellow fighters.
    Why???……because Nabi Kareem(pbuh) said “ummat is like a body if one part hurts so the other part feels pain (meaning).this hadeeth reflects true nature of true Muslims.
    So according to hadeeth if some body is celebrating the defeat and massacre of Muslim it means that some thing is wrong with that person.
    And then I saw few people dancing and laughing over their dead bodies including you, immediately my mind told me that you might be qadiyani.
    Strange thing about you is that you are entirely different from Diaspora
    1) People of Pakistan believe that even ghazi rasheed crossed some limits his demand is just right. You suddenly appeared chanting and crying about Quran and sunnah and challenged (with half knowledge) that no one can prove in the light of quran and sunnah.
    Then I pointed out about amr bilmaroof wa niha an il munkir and 3 degrees of eiman in response is nothing but…. blah blah blah
    2) Every Pakistani believes that gen pervez is worst possible head of state one country can ever have. He sold out every thing for money and power even 700 innocent Pakistani to America. He played with constitution of Pakistan .toppled elected govt, dismissed unlawfully a Supreme Court chief justice, destroyed the cultural decency, propagated atheism and nude kind of secular fascism, immunized and promoted qadiyanis in an unprecedented way. People hate him and want his trial. While few like you are still supporting him badly. No wonder what make you diametrically different from the Diaspora?
    3) Strange kind of support for brothels and prostitutes. I asked you that why 4 witnesses is required to remove a brothel from area and when I refuted your arguments then again you started blah blah blah…..
    4) You denied almost about every thing happened on these days. Like phosphorus bomb. First you denied about lethality of phosphorus bomb but when I refuted your argument you started blah blah blah….. and started saying that this kind of phosphorus bomb Pakistan army do not possess this kind of phosphorus bomb. Lolzzzzz Are you a procurement agent of Pakistan army or you supply the arms and ammunition to the army?
    5) You slandered about hamid mir and his 2 farms in chak shehzad and forgot all about quran and sunnah
    6) Your gesture and comments towards ghazi abdul rashed and shohada of lal masjid and jamia hafsa is full of contempt, cruel and indecent showed your mental sickness and you require and decency and manner? While whole nation was grieving you were jumping like a cat. And now you are giving me the bhashan on decency and manner.

    Well I don’t have any respect who cheered on death of a true muslim and spew the poison against the people who were mercilessly slaughtered by army. No body has. Just ask any one.

    May ALLAH save us all from the fire who’s fuel will be the humans.
    May ALLAH save all from the pretense of modern age.
    May ALLAH save us from the pretence of exterior as well interior.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 10, 2008 at 6:09 pm

  439. Well first of all ur accusation about dancing and laughing abt the death of innocent ppl is entirely wrong…im happy tht the terrorist inside lal masjid died and got wat they deserved….i do not consider any single person male or female who died inside lal masjid as innocent….i had doubts abt the presence of children but ghazi himself denied tht no children were present inside…the entire media also wanted children if any to be safe…..later when the anti musharraf propogandists took hold of the media campaign etc i.e to throw the current govt out many stories abt lal masjid emerged…we were shown girls on capital talk , 50 minute , ary etc claiming tht there were children inside…the same girls were calling all army personal who took part in the operation as kuffar and said on national tv tht all of them were killed by allah …I find this claim of urs tht a wide diaspora of ppl i.e the majority supports ghazi and his actions far from the truth…..if this was the case mqm in khi and the ig Punjab would not hv blamed umme hassan of recruiting suicide bombers………..she along with her hubby were the custodians of jamia hifza and lal mosque respectively…..maulana burqa showed his courage by fleeing the mosque…if he was wajing jihad he shd hv stayed…..similarly umme hassan ran away and strangely left females inside the mosque…mean , stupid and entirely selfish…..as far as ghazi , son of umme hassan n her saas y they were left behind is known only to her.but this is a fact tht it was not for religious duties……why ghazi was asking for safe passage for himself n his companions for pursakoon zindgi, mazi ko bhulana chahtay hain ……..isnt maulana burqa safely in custody of the police? Wat makes u think tht ghazi wud hv been treated differently? I again stress tht if any innocent life was lost inside the mosque the entire blame rest on this family….

    U claim tht rasik ul aqeeda muslims cried at the deaths of ghazi n band of terrorists…strangely no one cries for 13/14 soldiers and policemen who died during the operation…just imagine the situation tht a stupid molvi needs money for jihad , kills u and takes ur money for buying a rifle….ur family must then say tareeqa thora ghalat tha magar molvi demand tou shariat hi ki kar raha tha….amar bil maroof ghar sai shru hota hai………see ghazi;s family history…….a family installed in lal mosque by zia ul haq for their affiliations with sipah sihaba.both brothers were paid by the same state against whom they had suddenly decided to wage jihad….these brothers were active participant in the afghan war…lal mosque at that time was a training / recruiting place for jihadis , trained on cia money…both these buggers including almost all our deeni jaamat hv direct links with cia…so much so that even the course of many madrissas has been approved by cia to be used against the Russians in afghanistan…hv u ever asked urself frm where do these guys in bajore , swat and lal masjid etc get the money from to waje so called jihad against Pakistan…there are 20000 regular Indian troops in afghanistan .the entire northern alliance is anti Pakistan.dubai and iran along with India are sponsoring these so called jihadis for their vested interests i.e non development of gawadar as a port against chabahar in iran and dubai itself…India naturally wants us in a problem …what better way to do it than using the same molvis most of whom were against the creation of Pakistan itself.ghazi led a mob after azim tariq;s murder , burning property all over abpara…not defending melody cinema but nobody had a right to burn it in the name of amar bil maroof…..the same ghazi was caught transporting rocket launchers for allah knows wat?

    1) amar bil maroof as stated in the Quran is beyond any doubt but we will hv to c who is doing it and how he is carrying this activity? This would remain Islamic till the time it remains within the bounds of shariah .as soon as u cross those bounds it becomes unislamic. Ghazi actions u urself agree were crossing limits .who permitted himto cross these limits/ and y was he doing it? Just for fun or fame.

    2) I do not support musharraf but I would not call him the worst of rulers.he really has strong competition to chose from . his policies are not part of my discussion. Coz he has not committed anything in the name of islam.ghazi on the other hand played into the hands of the western world by doing everything wrong in the name of islam.

    3) I hv not supported any brothel/prostitute. I do not hv any knowledge abt brothels or qadiyani temples nor I want to…the papers are full of stories abt brothels etc…to prove adultery 4 witnesses are reqd…incase of a brothel even if 4 witnesses are not present other options can be undertaken…..firs can be lodged…if ghazi himself had lodged an fir and then aggressively persuded by taking out prosessions, goin to media , approaching political authority tht is the mma mna aslam arain lot of pressure could hv been built up……..now don’t tell me tht these things were done…if so where r the firs, why aslam arain the local mna has no responsibility? Wat abt the media? This sacha media can only bring out rubbish/negative news y not something constructive.? Didn’t I give another solution rather than abducting tht lady…….the same chaps including the burqa brigade could hv stood a vigil outside this house not letting anyone in? another strange fact is the absence of any male clients from the entire scene. Y they if present were let off? The news reported tht the brother of an mmma mna was let off by the burqa brigade from Chinese parlor? U still hv not answered these lines….why ghazi was supporting the male clients of these alleged prostitutes?
    4) As far as phosphorous grenades are concerned u taunted tht I shd be an agent for the army to know abt them.my dear I hv a number of shaheeds in my family including those who hv earned gallantry awards like sj in wars against India the established kuffar…..i do not understand the ghazi brothers wajing war against their own army comprising fully of muslims and then declaring them kafir.the grenade is common issue in the army and I hv seen it .do talk to some fauji aside from politically motivated generals serving or retd.
    5) As far as my claim against hamid mir is concerned ur correct..it was my mistake..i had read it on a website and as I don’t hv any proof of it I shdnt hv spoken it out….however this gentleman himself talks abt suicide bomber frm jamia hifza ( girl wearing suicide jacket) u avoided commenting on it…strangely all these ppl easily find suicide jackets and explosive material to blow themselves up…the same chap before the operation used to say capital k beech mai aik masjid ka molvi apni hakomat qaim karna chahta hai.writ of the state challenge ho rahi….isb k shehri apnay apko mehfooz tasawar nahi kartay…..to support this many ppl were called on his show……geo along with other channels beat the war drums throughout the episode of all ghazi crimes…….these chaps were also responsible for building up pressure onto the govt for the operation in the same manner as they built up pressure against musharraf…chief justice ab bhi bahir hai but strangely the media is not giving it as much coverage now….gern kiani words against musharraf were headline news along with ex servicemen society……his death merited only a brief mention on geo esp coz their purpose had been fulfilled.
    Waisay jo tohmtain , galian, gandi ghatia batein app kartay rahain hain ya jo banday ghazi aur uskay logon k hathon marray hain unka hisab kon dai ga………..

    Finally :

    U call ghazi a true muslim but agree tht he crossed the bounds of sharia…..did he sign tht statement which u wanted me to sign….how do u know tht he was not a qadiani. An agent of raw , cia , mossad ….y r u not as strict in judging him as u were for me???????? Without any basis u called me a qadiani etc…….
    Where hv u seen me dancing???????
    Where hv u seen me abusing u or these ppl?
    Decency is a must in all public interactions……app logon ki maa par unglian uthanay ko islami samjhtay hain……I hv not even reacted on ur dirty examples……
    Many ppl don’t support ghazi so don’t call it a majority support….tht sicko was using orphans and females for his personal gain…..he shd not hv been shot…he along with his brother and bhabhi deserved all the sharaee punishments tht is chopping of hands for illegal occupation of land, flogging for tohmat, beheading for spreading fisad , causing nifaq and killing the innocent soldiers/policemen during the operation…..jis baikhofi sai this man committed such big crimes is a point of concern…was he above the law?????? If zardari is corrupt , mushraf is bad , nawaz is chor shd some molvi kill them all and claim tht I did this for ALLAH. A similar sicko killed a female mpa for not observing parda in gwa …this concept of sharia is strange..where every shida maja molvi can claim tht he is the law …obey me coz thts shariat .question me and ur qadiani kafir…oppose me and I will brand ur house a brothel or call u a lowlife…kill u and ur family and term u kuffar………gimmie a break!!!!!!!

    We all r common ppl not zardari musharaf or molvi burqa …these all r above the law in Pakistan….even if I do a small crime today I will be punished….all of them will go free as in sab ka pawa hai………aur log bawaqoof jo inn mai sai kisi aik ko support kartay hain……..ab tou burqay aur darhi ko dekh k shopkeepers are alert…….islam ki iss sai ziada badnami possible nahi thi……..i do not sympathise with these brainless females……shown on geo how they were kicked out from various hospitals in isb for threatening nurses….i feel pity on everyone who suts his brain , closes the Quran , forgets the sunna and starts following some zardari, mushrraf or molvi etc etc

    I hv been on this blog since lal mosque operation…my stance is still the same…prove everything from quran n sunnat I will agree…u can scroll above and read so u cant call it a sudden demand…….

    Lolz, hehehe, khas kam jahan pak ( as I don’t abuse and these are decent alternatives to bring out my anger)

    by noman on Nov 10, 2008 at 8:41 pm

  440. ” Lolz, hehehe, khas kam jahan pak ( as I don’t abuse and
    these are decent alternatives to bring out my anger)

    it’s not abusing, it’s an expression of sick mentality in the public.i don’t expect you to show sympathy for ghazi a.rasheed but atleast you can stop dancing and laughing over a dead body even he is your arch enemy.
    does quran and sunnah not tell you any thing about that?
    did you see (maaz allah) Nabi e Kareem(pbuh) and sahaba e kiram (rta) cheered on the death of any enemy?

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 10, 2008 at 10:34 pm

  441. from the entire post u had only this to jump upon…….just compare ur language, abuses with these simple words……… laughing is a sign of sick mentality, wowwwwww……ab iss pai bhi fatwa hai????????hansnay wala bhi kafir hai………i dont laugh over the dead bodies but i laugh over the sick mentality and senseless displayed by ghazi and supporters.

    prove from the Quran this is dancing over the dead bodies or unislamic…….u mentioned the prophet(p.b.u.h) and yet hyprocite enough to use words like pimp, pig , qadiani, kafir against all who oppose u…………u prove this from Quran plz???????

    however im happy tht u agree with the rest of my post as u hv no counter arguement specifically abt ghazi;s actions being islamic from Quran and sunnat…….

    dont even attempt to teach me decency coz ur not the rite person to do so coz my posts hv been very decent ……..

    u still hv not answered any of my questions even frm this last post……………what a pity!!!!!!!!!

    hehehe
    lolzz
    khas kam jahan pak

    by noman on Nov 11, 2008 at 4:34 am

  442. lastly i advise you sincierly to repent in front ALLAH(SWT)
    and ask His forgiveness.He is most merciful and gracious.
    in the end we all have to present in front of ALMIGHTY ALLAH(SWT)on the day of judgement which is not far from now(i think) where you will not be able to deceive any one by chanting about quran and sunnah.the day when ALLAH(SWT) will be in state of extreme majesty.
    when even Prophets except nabi kareem(saw)will not dare to say any thing.the day with full of hardness and longiness.
    and some one who just invited the wrath of ALLAH(swt) in this earthy life will be the looser of the loosers.
    extrem pain forever
    suffering forever
    tourment forever
    cursed forever
    and all this suffering for what?
    chiken feeds,dibs and disdained interests.
    just for a afflicting job.

    what a loss!
    May ALLAH save us all from the fire who’s fuel will be the humans.
    May ALLAH save all from the pretense of modern age.
    May ALLAH save us from the pretence of exterior as well interior.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 11, 2008 at 4:14 pm

  443. also In jusdgement day there will be no
    hahahahahah
    heehehehehehe and
    lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 11, 2008 at 4:20 pm

  444. Firstly its not ur advice.Allah tallah has ordered in the Quran that we should always be asking his forgiveness and repenting on our sins .we cannot express garatitude for the smallest of allah;s blessing in our entire life times. Hell is always deserved and jannah only by allah;s rehmat.

    u thinking about Quran ands sunnat is deceiving people????? Don’t u hv Quran at home….if u think im wrong correct me ……why not amar bil maroof and nahi unil munkir in the light of Quran and sunnat? Wats so difficult…….just because u don’t hv answers to defend that criminal?

    U can even call people Quran as deceivers and Qadiyani…….u shd beg forgiveness for this act…………. How can u call a muslim a kafir?

    How can u attribute shirk to a person who believes in Allah?

    Ghazi rasheed;s actions were unislamic and even not appreciated by u but he is rasikh ul aqeeda muslim coz he hijacked a mosque? Killed numerous ppl in the name of islam?

    Please read the Quran specifically ayat al kursi…Allah says illah bi iznahi means without allah;s permission nobody would be allowed the role of shifaaat…..we do not know who all Allah will permit….and secondly how dare u say that Allah will be in extreme majesty only on the day of judgement? Allah is the always majestic……….

    May Allah forgive me and place me in those who are on the right side……

    Ur right , on qayamaat u also dare to call ppl pig, pimp,qadiani, kafir , lowlife, bastard……….
    Dare to indulge in abusing ppl mothers and sisters ….

    Basically u don’t hv any answer/logic to support whatever ur trying to support………therefore u indulge in side stepping the issue under discussion…..
    I once again challenge u to support ghazi and urself in the light of Quran and sunnat……

    I really don’t understand y ppl on this blog indulge in personal attacks just to support that criminal……….

    U hv not answered a single question of mine….even u could not identify the harm in lolz and hehe morally, ethically or in the light of religion………

    Hats off to me tht I bear with ur abuses and bad language ( coz u will be answerable for them on day of judgement) and I just do hehehe…………u basically want to incite me and trying my patience……Allah sabar karnay walon k sath hain…..inshallah Allah mujhay sabareen hi mai rakhay ga. Amen

    Kash ghazi aur burqa brigade nai aik bar bhi roz e akhrat k baray mai socha hota tou who apni jaan ko khasaray main a daltay aur fisad na philatay……..

    Ha ha ha ha ……..

    by noman on Nov 11, 2008 at 9:21 pm

  445. Dear noman!
    Time is running out. Human life is just like a piece of ice in a scorching heat. Salvation is solely depending upon the surrender of our free will against ALLAH (SWT).
    HE is most gracious and the merciful. HE blessed us in the earthy life with so many things, our lives depend upon, and we even cannot count. In return, he just orders the complete and unconditional obedience. Only ALLAH (swt) decides whomever, whatever, whenever’s and wherever’s.
    If He orders His servants to fight for shariyah, promotion of virtue and prevention of vice in Quran, its mean we have to follow the command no matter what the cost it takes. It means it become a collective responsibility a “farz e kifayah” which means some one have to come forward and obey ALLAH (SWT) other wise we all will become offender fasiq and will be accountable on judgment day.
    Ghazi abdul rasheed did that he stand for shariyah fought against vice. He took the entire burden on his shoulder. He sacrificed his life along with other rasikh ul aqeeda Muslims brothers and sisters, unprecedented in modern history of Islam.
    In spite of being thankful for the sacrifice, you indulged yourself in the monkey business. Derided the poor souls, mocked upon their helplessness knowing that they mercilessly slaughtered by swinish, barbaric and rogue army.
    Repent for your derogatory remarks against the shohada the pure souls if you know the high levels of shohada.do not invite the wrath of ALLAH (SWT).
    When you say:
    Why not amar bil maroof and nahi unil munkir in the
    light of Quran and sunnat? Wats so difficult…….just
    because u don’t hv answers to defend that criminal?

    it indicates your level of understanding of “Quran and sunnah” you want a justification of one Qurani order in the light of Quran and sunnah…….so funny and absurd.
    so please tell me, with this level of understanding of Quran and sunnah, is it necessary to mock and ridicule the sacrifices of shohada e Islam?
    i call it a invitation to the wrath of ALLAH(SWT)

    in the end i must convey the meaning of hadeeth which say that deplore for a person who destroy his hereafter “aaqibah” for the “dunya” of the others.
    May ALLAH save us all from the fire who’s fuel will be the humans.
    May ALLAH save all from the pretense of modern age?
    May ALLAH save us from the pretence of exterior as well interior?

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 12, 2008 at 1:22 am

  446. well i am not thankful for any so called sacrifice made by those in masjid…those criminals were just causing fisad in the world and will punished ion the hereaftre inshallah….i hv already asked u to quote the relevent ayas of the Quran on which ghazi;s actions were based and how they were carried out……there is no justification for his criminal acts……

    wat were the outlines of his so called shariah ? just slogans?

    burning public property?
    lootingpublic offices?
    taking over children;s library?
    brainwashing children?
    killing innocent soldiers?
    calling ppl kafir?
    kidnapping?
    indulging in slander?

    these are sharee actions? i told u to prove these actions in the light of Quran and sunnat not to defend shariat?

    nobody opposes shariah……….u very well know wat im asking so dont try to say other than wat is asked……

    ghazi rasheed was as helpless as maulana burqa, his wife n other male / females who came out…….inn par so called jihad maaf ho gia tha????

    laughs out loud!!!

    ghazi bhi safe passage mang raha tha????????? pursakoon zindgi k liye????????????

    wat farz e kafaya and wat jihad abt it????????

    hehehehe

    promotion of virtue …hahaha…..u call his actions virtues????????????????

    fight against vice…correct…coz that wat the army was doing …tht is fighting against a fisadi / vice

    he took the burden………………….yes…..he is entirely to blame for the entire episode …..he is responsible for the deaths of all innocent ppl during the operation.
    i can only compare him with dakoos, abducters and petty politicians who make such sacrifices daily ……bibi shaheed, bhutto shaheed, zia shaheed and finally criminal shaheed
    ab log plots par kabza kar k, tv par jhoot bol k bhi shaheed kehlayein gai…wowwwwww

    wat abt the ppl killed by ghazi?????/ it was they who made the supreme sacrifice????? how can u call them barbaric?? who r u to name them brutul??????

    u shd repent in labelling ghazi actions as sharee…waisay u hv still not quoted the relevent ayas of Quran

    infact ur just beating the drum……

    ghazi ki tarefain does not make correct and rasik ul aqeeda…….

    u hv still failed to answer any of my questions…..
    dont try to dodge…….
    u very well know wat im asking…..
    like hamid mir u also hv taken u turn first according to u he crossed limits…now he is rasikh ul aqeeda……..

    kia andar burqay kam opar gayay thay …pehnta aur woh bhi bahir bhaj jata??????

    hehehe (funny indeed)

    by noman on Nov 12, 2008 at 4:54 am

  447. wat were the outlines of his so called Good governece of Musharraf
    burning public Mosque and burning public property in Fata area?
    kidnapping/Selling countrymen to USA for few dollars?
    Selling public property (steel Mill)
    taking over mosque and children’s Maddareasah?
    brainwashing public?
    killing innocent pakistani/muslims?
    calling Mujahidden as terrorrists and calling the real terrorist USA friend ?
    Breaking constitution.
    Imposing Martial Law.
    Putting Chief Justice under house arrest.

    indulging in slander?

    by Arif on Nov 15, 2008 at 7:46 pm

  448. http://www.jasarat.com/2008/10/24/columns/details/02.gif

    please read this regarding lal masjid massacre

    by Arif on Nov 15, 2008 at 7:54 pm

  449. arif

    again trying to confuse the issue…..this blog is not of musharraf neither im his supporter……..neither musharraf diod all wat u allege in the name of islam.
    ghazi;s madrissa was just like masjid e zarar …shd hv been demolished frm the outset…..

    these are not mujahadeens……..if musharraf is an american agent i believe ghazi also to be one…please read my previous posts carefully……….

    i know musharraf is wrong in many aspects neither im here to defend but if ur a ghazi supporter plz prove ghazis actions from Quran/sunna………as he was committing sins in the name of islam

    thanx

    by noman on Nov 15, 2008 at 9:32 pm

  450. @Arif
    “again trying to confuse the issue…..this blog is not of
    musharraf neither im his supporter……..neither musharraf
    diod all wat u allege in the name of islam.
    ghazi;s madrissa was just like masjid e zarar …shd hv been
    demolished frm the outset…..

    Not demolished from outset???
    no problem.
    destroy it with heavy guns and with militory hardware
    what?…children and women are inside????
    no problem kill them all
    use the phosphorus bomb if neccessary.

    and remember @noman will be there even we discuss this issue after 10 years.noman is authority on quran and sunnah
    no one dare to mess with him.he can even justify the actions of george bush in the light of quran and sunnah.
    if you have enough time to read his post please do not forget to see my answer side by side

    best regards

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 15, 2008 at 11:58 pm

  451. again indulging in slander…i hv never attempted to justify bush or musharraf…as far as ghazi is concerned he was judging the society as per his interpretition of Quran ….waisay who gave him this authority??????? tht is the entire point of my discussion.

    atleast now u hv agreed if partially tht the madrissa shd hv been demolished……in ur opinion how shd ppl holding guns , threatning to kill or abduct others at their own will and judgement be treated????? u can see the videos of these so called mujahedeens slitting the throats of ppl on u tube ….they all are justified…….molvi umer claims of killing 70 ppl in wah blast in ur opinion he must also be the greatest mujahid……..

    noone can mess up with the truth…truth will prevail even after 30 yrs……Quran and sunnat is for everybody………u can also use it if u are aware of it…….sadly u hv no answers and no logic….anyone reading ur post side by side would definetely realize ur personality traits tht is abusees, filth, slander and free time to visit qadiyani temples……….

    im against all those molvis who attempt to hijack the Quran , sunna and misuse it for their own lethal benefits…..

    women and children inside………y did they not come out????? if any coz ghazi said no children inside……innocent larkion k karnamay tou boht dekhay hain…..lefetovers call on tv everyone kafir so i assume the those who died hv the similar traits so i dont sympathise……………

    if any one of u wants to discuss musharraf , bush , wapda, cda, zardari plz do so on thir respected blogs…………..this blog is for the justification of ghazis actions as evident from its name but u can keep on trying to confuse the issue and support a murderer ,abducter, slanderer and a mufsid…….

    dr sahib tussi parh likh k gawaya……….

    by noman on Nov 17, 2008 at 4:28 am

  452. @Noman You just talk like Zaid Zaman Hamid and Altaf Hussain

    Musharraf is a traitor secular , murderer , dictator and just to extend his illegal rule and please his western master portrayed Ghazi Shaheed as a bad person.

    My dear if Ghazi Madrissa was like masjid e zarar then 70 % mosque in Pakistan are also like masjid zarar , so according to you they should also be demolished. If Musharraf occupies the whole country illegally, that’s alright for u but when a peace of land is occupied for mosque purpose , that’s wrong. So Noman Or Musharraf are the final authority to give Judgement that Ghazi Maderssa was illegal as It is for the court to decide and by the way superme court of Pakistan has given clear verdict to that again rebuilt the Ghazi maderssa that’s mean it was not like was not like Masjid zarar. Now noman please do not start this bakwas that Chief Justice Iftikhar was also a Terrorist.

    People in lal masjid were human being they were not animal that blood also counts, they also had a heart , they also had a family and above all as Pakistani citizen they was entitle to full justice in the court of law. But Muderror Musharraf decided I am god and I can kill any one I like and the justice was denied to innocent mulims, human being in Lal Masjid.
    Had there been only 1 American citizen present in Lal Masjid, Musharraf did not have the guts to do operation there Or if the some people had occupied any American School , there would have been negotiation.

    I shall upload a audio / video of lal Masjid real story but listen to it and if you have a clear heart , you would relize that Ghazi is really a Shaheed.

    As you said Mujahiddin slitting throats on u tube. How did you know they were Mujahaddin , so u know them personally , may be they were Indian agent or enemy of Islams . May be the video is fight between Taliban and Ahmed Shah Masood , where Ahmed Masood was also a muslim but sided with India and may be he was cutting throat.

    by Arif on Nov 17, 2008 at 10:37 am

  453. @ARIF!……..bravo

    1) 100 year old mosque has been demolished?
    ANS: so what!….i did not demolish it. Ask CDA as I m not responsible for that.

    2) What are you responsible for?
    ANS: i am responsible of demolishing the mosque and madrisas. As these are build on confiscated land and some one told me about masjid e zarraz. And my aim to prove that the action of ghazi abdul rasheed was against “Quran and sunnah”

    3) but what about our govt: officials from top to bottom? Are their actions are according to “Quran and sunnah”
    ANS: i am not responsible for gen pervez his ministers and govt: officials and i am not a defender of gen pervez and i don’t care of his actions. What I do care is to tell the people that “ghazi abdul rasheed shaheed was doing against “Quran and sunnah”

    4) if you are not defending pervez mushrraf then why you
    slandered about hamid mir about his 2 farms in chak
    shazad and why did you try to smear the integrity of
    the gen kiyani???as both guys raised their voices
    against pervez musharraf
    ANS:…………?????/we should not deviate from the topic pervez musharraf, CDA and higher govt: officials are not the topic of discussion.

    5) but why ghazi abdul rasheed was doing amr bil
    maroof wa neha un il munkir and he was using the
    force against evil deeds?
    ANS: blah blah blah blah …. i challange any one who can prove the actions of ghazee abdul rasheed in the light of “quran and sunnah”

    6) but what about above mentioned aayat(amr
    bilmaroof…….munkir and hadeeth of 3 degrees of
    eiman?
    ANS: prove me this aaya and hadeeth in the light of “Quran and sunnah” i challenge no one can……….(laughter in back ground)

    7) I couldn’t understand why you are so mad about ghazee
    abdul rasheed? is there any other reason except his
    actions against “Quran and sunnah”?????
    ANS:…… YES the students of jamia hafsa and lal masjid messed with Chinese massage parlor and aunty shameem which is against “Quran and sunnah”

    8) But massage parlor and brothels are prohibited in Islam??and aunty shameem was running the brothel…right???
    ANS: How dare you to call aunty shameem a whore with such a disrespect. You slanderer . Your action is against “quran and sunnah” do you have 4 witnesses????……. (hey khaki wardee! use some phosphorus bomb against this man. he has no knowledge of “quran and sunnah”)

    9) Sorry sir! Please forgive me i don’t want to be killed with phosphorus bomb? But in Quran 4 witness are asked if some one slendered against the CHASTE woman??
    Please see the refrence;
    “And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, (to support their allegations), flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;
    (sura al noor -4)

    ANS: u hv failed to prove ghazis actions as per Quran n sunnau know tht u r wrong …ur position is based on lies but ur still defending it because of ego…….these are just attention diverting tactics u r using…..i challange u to prove his actions in the light of the above ….u will fail as others inshallah coz allah is not on the side of jaheeleens…….
    all of ghazi supporters hv run off as usual……coz its impossible for jaheelens and mufsids to defend fisad they are tryin to spread………….

    (sky tearing laughter in the back ground)

    by dr_jawwad71 on Nov 17, 2008 at 4:20 pm

  454. Well u are finally seeing the light if but partially……u say musharraf actions were unislamic..correct …….many of them must hv been….but nobody is defending him….let me put u a question …all of abdullah bin abi;s , and the kuffar e makkahs actions were unislamic …masjid zarar when built was demolished on the orders of Allah as it was deeemed unislamic.the prophet (p.b.u.h) did not compete with these ppl by comitting unislamic acts nawuzubillah….all his actions were as per sharia as per wahi as per ethical and moral norms….when he had to build a mosque in madina land was purchased for it …he did not just start building from his own accord…..arif very rightly said by u all those mosques which are built illegally shd be demolished…recently on a tv prog news 1 mubashar luqman show a mosque built by dawaet islami was shown in khi….this was built on the plot owned by a widow who had two small children…the widow is running from pillar to post but hey arif and jawaad would let her children starve, let her plot be stolen kiunkay chori ki zameen par allah ki ibadat honi hai..aur iss chori ka tou both bara sawab hai……and chori karnay wala molvi yakenan rasikh ul aqeeda hai.in fsd it was mentioned all big mills hv encroached upon land to build one room mosques and thus including acres of extra land in their mill in the name of islam…who would dare to stop them? Atleast u wont….
    U also claim tht nobody knows if ahmad shah masood was an American/Indian agent…my point exactly..the lal masjid episode hurt Pakistan badly…..it was not musharraf;s govt which went coz it wud hv gone otherwise also but the image of Pakistan tht a molvi claiming the authority to challenge the govt by harassing ppl in the capital itself…kash molvi America sai jihad karta……….kash suicide bombing American army k khilaf hoti……1000s of american/Indian soldier are present in Afghanistan but hardly anyone of them is bothered by these mullahs …the molvis so called jahadis hit out at their fellow muslims………how are u so sure tht ghazi was not an agent??????? Coz all his actions speak otherwise……….
    The supreme court has given a verdict to rebuild the madrissa, very right…this is the legal and proper way of doin things…however the court has only permitted the construction on already allotted land …I ask u here if maulana aziz can now go to court y did he not do so before??????? If aunty shamim and the numerous parlours and brothels are to be declared illegal he could hv done so with the courts help…he himself did not hv any right to take the law into his own hands………I hv already given numerous options in my post of nov 10 these could also hv been exercised resulting in the safety of all those killed during the operation……yes all those in lal mosque had hearts and families but where were their minds????? Had they not read the Quran…did they not know tht they are doin unislamic things and causing fisad …..all of them shd hv surrendered like ummehassan ……moreover wat abt the families of the security personal who embraced shihadat during the operation?????? Wat abt those killed in the suicide blast in wah and isb?????? Ur beloved hamid mir himself claims it to be a reaction of lal mosque …he claims meeting innocent female wearing suicide jacket……..chak shahzad …..i hv already appologised tht I did not hv proved……however u hv not answered 1 ) hamid mir changed his statements on lal mosque before and after the operation as he also used to call them terrorist 2) and wat abt this innocent female suice bomber frm jamia hifza as claimed by sacha hamid mir……….as far jamshed gulzar the man;s character is evident frm my posts above …u r always repeating and not answering any of my points…

    I hv already given my point regarding amar bil maroof etc etc in 10 nov post…ur just taunting as u hv no counter to my answers…if im wrong quote the relevant ayas to prove me wrong…….i hv not denied amar bil maroof……wat ru trying to portray??????? Wat is tht blah blah blah …….u don’t hv answers to tht blah blah but ur ego cannot permit u frm admitting it

    Ur admission tht 4 witnesses are reqd to prove any one as zani is correct……if u do not hv these 4 witnesses u cannot accuse anyone of being unchaste….this is according to Quran and shariah……ur not taunting me ur the word of Allah…………its very easy for ppl like u to call anyone who opposes them by bad names or abuses….u hv license to indulge in slander ..app tou mujhay bhi pimp keh chukay hain…………apkoiss ki gawahi kis nai di??????? Pakar tou apki bhi ho gi…if not in this world inshallah in the next world……….
    If u disagree with any of arguments which was detailed i.e nov 10 come up with superior logic…..u on the other hand would not talk abt Quran and sunnah but indulge in galam galoch, slander, taunts and accusing others of being qadiani………

    Musharraf lost the elections so he was booted out…..he was claiming to be democratic ppl disagreed and booted him out …however ghazi was claiming tht he had the license to enforce his own interpretation of islam….i also hv the right to disagree and I will keep on doing so till the time any of u can prove me wrong from the Quran coz tht is the only supreme logic given to us by Allah almighty………plz grow up…learn how to talk, to argue in a decent manner, to give logics and counter logics……the way ur behaving becomes jahil women who indulge in laan taan……….

    Im happy tht u hv learned to laugh …it’s a healthy activity which as u now know its not unislamic which previously u thought was against shariah…so keep on laughing and I really don’t mind if u really tear the sky off……….

    Laughs out loud ( this would be termed as laughing over dead bodies)

    by noman on Nov 17, 2008 at 6:21 pm

  455. @Arif …bravo again

    Did you see the light??i give you more
    Your interpretation is just imazing. Who taught you these lovely things?
    1) Masjid zarrar was built with intensions of spreading of fitna in muslims and by munafiqeen
    Masajid in islam abad was built by ordinary Muslims(not at least by ghazi Abdul rasheed or molana abdul aziz) .Lal masjid was using to impose shariyah and against evil deeds of society.

    2) Masjid e zarrar was demolished by Nabe e Karem (saew) who was informed by ALLAH(SWT) about the intentions of munafiqeen and of course by the order of ALLAH (swt)
    masajid in islamabad were demolished by CDA. And who gave the order? …..yes!…..Our beloved gen pervez musharraf .
    why ???? because these masajid are the security risk in movements of vips.
    Who feel uncomfortable when they saw bearded men in the way.

    3) were these masajid built through unwarranted peculation of any widows,orphans or any other person????no these masajid were built “illegally” on the lands of CDA
    Including 100year old masjid.
    So the million dollar question is …whether the demolition of masajid in islam abad are justified by demolition of majid e zarrar????
    Of course …..yes
    How?????
    Because @noman say so.

    “kash molvi America sai jihad karta……….kash suicide bombing American army k khilaf hoti……1000s of american/Indian soldier are present in Afghanistan but hardly anyone of them is bothered by these mullahs …
    question: what the hell @noman is talking about????
    ANS: may be he didn’t heard any news about Afghanistan since 8 yrs.

    “The supreme court has given a verdict to rebuild the madrissa, very right…this is the
    legal and proper way of doin things…”
    Q: what does it mean??? Do you want to say that first CDA will demolish a mosque and madrisa and then after courts verdict we will be able to build those mosque again.
    Bravo!
    Q: what about your instance??? We are sick and tired,listening the troll about illegal peculation of land and unwarranted constructions of masajid. Where youpeople stand now after court verdict.
    Q: are you sure this argument goes in your favour?

    Your numerous options???? Are you talking about the same old bull shit you are spreading restlessly since one year with different identities????

    Superior logic or superior bull shit?

    “uradmission tht 4 witnesses are reqd to prove any one as zani is correct……if u do not hv these 4 witnesses u cannot accuse anyone of being unchaste….this is according to Quran and shariah……ur not taunting me ur the word of Allah……

    ALLAH (swt) reveled these aayat. When munafiqeen slandered about chastity of ummul momineen HAZRAT AYESHA (raa) as they never missed a chance to hurt RASOOL ULLAH.(SAAW) .so through these aayat ALLAH(swt) gave the immunity to the chaste women of society not the “chaste” women of brothel.
    Your understanding of islam is amazing

    Im happy tht u hv learned to laugh …it’s a healthy activity which as u now know its not unislamic which previously u thought was against shariah…so keep on laughing and I really don’t mind if u really tear the sky off……….
    One more thing about sunnah” NABEE KAREEM(SAAW) NEVER LAUGHED , neither He laughed nor he approved laughing He said(meaning)
    “ if you know what I know then you would cry more rather than laughing”

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 18, 2008 at 1:10 am

  456. masjid zarar when was demolished on the orders of Allah but Lal Masjid was demolished on the order of General Musharraf (who thinks he is GOD).

    Luqman of TV1 is a puppet and Goverment Agent, So I don't watch is bloody and Dramabaz shows. If there is a dispute on land , it is for the court to decide not Harami Musharraf.

    Musharraf was the agreesor, ghazi acted on reaction as self defence. He kidnapped Protitute Aunty Shamim and chinese message which were running illegallly but its alright for mush .

    We had a wine shop in our locality in Karachi in 1998, we did every thing to stop it legally but eventually we took law into our hand and march a crowd of 500 people towards wineshop , broke it and now the wine shop is gone for ever.

    Again "Ghazi Shaheed"way of doing was wrong but his intentions and demands were right.

    by Arif on Nov 18, 2008 at 1:44 am

  457. arif the use of word harami for anyone no matter how much politically opposed ur is a sin as ur also not a God and neither was ghazi……..

    we hv to consider the case of all masjids illegally built on the basis of masjid e zarar…u went out to destroy a liquor shop but how many times hv u gone out to destroy such illegal constructions…..kia islam sirf apni gali mahallac saaf karna hai????????/ sharab is out of pakistan????????

    u telling me ghazi kidnappind women in self defence??????????? if aunty shamim is a prostitute has prostitution finished even by her after tht sharaee kidnapping and self defence………just prove kidnapping of anybody even prostitute in light of Quran and sunnat……….heera mandi nis built by musharraf???????????????????? even before musharaf pakistan was free of prostitutes…………… there was a sharaee govt before him????????????????? where ghazi was at tht time?????????????y ummehassan is quiet now???????? y ghazi was asking for a safe passage if he was doing jihad i.e self defence………….
    if the destruction of mosque is to be decided by courts tht is true then wether someone is prostitute or not shd also be decided by court………….u call mubasshar lucman a drama baz may be all who oppose u are dramabaz……

    u also hv not answered any of the question i put fwd esp in 10 nov post……………

    jawaad g

    plz correct urself …..lal mosque was not built by ghazi brothers…it was a govt masjid in which both brothers were paid govt employees tht is khateeb and naib khateeb..mashallah sharaee tankhwa patay thay…but jiska khaya ussi ki thali mai chaid kia……………..

    again masjid e zarar shd be the basis of our judgement…..i believe tht theghazi brigade actions if not of munafaiq was tht of mufsids….the actions were unislamic , crossing limits as u say so even arif say so……..but islam allows breaking the rules of Allah nawuzibillah by beloved ghazi sahib coz unka maksad naik tha…….evil deeds roknay k liyay tableegh kidar kartay thay????he started fighting/jihad against fellow muslims directly…..the day u hv the courage and guts to speak for the ppl who hv been wronged by such molvis I would believe ur cause…atleast ur sincerity tht ur against all sins but ur support of ghazi shows ur selective attitude…

    Afghanistan news…….there is no jihad going on in Afghanistan…both sides are fighting Americas war.giving usa the excuse to stay on and Afghanistan…..hv u forgotten tht osama bin laden was paid cia agent and bush senior and junior paid workers of the bin laden group before their presidencies……..from where they are getting the arms and ammunition/money for this so called jihad???????? Don’t tell me tht Afghanistan is first world nation producing such weapons…….

    4 witnesses……..those ayas , ayat e barat abt hazrat ayesha (razi Allah) were abt women in society…u agree with me or not …these prostitutes are not frm mars…also from the same society…….unkay liyay islam aur uskay qanoon farq nahi hain…….to prove some one a prostitute or any brothel witnesses are reqd….just by rumours or allegations u cannot start calling women as prostitutes or a house as brothel…………..this was what ghazi sahib did………….wat abt the male clients , the zanies?????????? None of them were abducted…….u also hv not spoken banything abt them ????????/ y?????????????and wat was wrong in the options I gave abt brothels??????? Y cant those be practiced or anything in the better manner???????? Neelofar bhaktiar was also frm a brothel???????????? Her hugging was unislamic ……but geo shows only Islamic programme thtsy biyanbazi on geo is jaiz………

    who gave both u and ghazi the license to abuse ppl??????

    My logic is the Quran and sunnat …I hv always said tht prove me wrong frm it…but u call it bullshit (nawzubiiah)………………only ghazis saying shariat makes him sharaeee…no matter wat else he is indulged in……………..lolzzzzzzzz

    The hadith u quote to me is out of context…..the prophet(p.b.u.h) when he said tht we wud cry if knew abt wat he knew tht is dosagh and azab awaiting ppl who do not obey Allah……laughing was reference to all other wordly things which we give preference over the word of allah ………….

    I do notlaugh with gay abandon…wat I find funny is ppl committing sins doing unislamic acts , abusing, abducting slandering etc etc all in the name of islam……….their only justification is musharraf…….musharraf ghalat hai tou hum bhi ghalat karain????????????????
    Laughs out loud
    Plz stick to the points and answer my questions if u hv spare time do read Quran as well………..

    Till the time u do not prove ghazi correct frm Quran and sunnat yes the argument goes in my favour……….

    by noman on Nov 18, 2008 at 5:10 am

  458. I must admit that i have never come across such a Martian style of logic……… … who are you people?? Who taught you this unique kind of arguments?

    “plz correct urself ….. …
    How can I correct my self while I am giving the same argument (lal masjid was not build by ghazi brothers…..yeh this was my argument)

    but jiska khaya ussi ki thali mai chaid kia………”
    One more hadeeth (meaning) “once ALLAH(swt) decided to destroy a village and sent the angles. after some time angel came back and said oh our Lord in that village, resides a very pious man who waste no time and pray all the time(morning or night). ALLAH (swt) said “destroy him first as he didn’t tried to stop the violation of my commands”
    From where you brought this logic? … insan ALLAH(swt) ka diya huwa khata hey aur uskey aehkamat ki pabandi ka mukallif hey. Who are you people? Where is the “Quran and sunnah” now? Is that your superior logic? Tell me which is superior, commandants of ALLAH (SWT) or general ethics???

    I believe that the ghazi brigade actions if not of munafaiq was tht of mufsids…
    “KHirad kaa naam junooN paR gayaa, junooN kaa KHirad
    jo chaahe aap kaa Husn e karishmah_saaz kare
    (Men kahoon to haqeeqat, tum kaho to bohtan)

    Afghanistan news…….there is no jihad going on in Afghanistan…both sides are fighting Americas war.
    This what I call blah blah blah …..Really very funny …..Does it mean if I fight with my enemy it will be my enemy’s fight …..?Who are you people??? Where you come from??

    OBL was cia agents??? Who told you that??/ I can believe you only if you accept that you are also a paid agent of CIA. Then your information will be credible.
    (Men kahoon to haqeeqat, tum kaho to bohtan)
    Does “quran and sunnah” never told you about punishment of slandering.???

    witnesses……..those ayas , ayat e barat abt hazrat ayesha (razi Allah) were abt women in society…u agree with me or not …these prostitutes are not frm mars…
    who are you people??? From where you come from……..
    4 witness for known chaste woman like HAZRAT AYESHA (raa) not for woman like aunty shameem or neelofar bakhtiyar(who openly hugged a gora and when I call her lowlife because of publicly demonstration of obscenity. You got mad as you did not like the word “lowlife for neelofar bakhtiyar) …..did you understand now???
    Every fornicator male or female should be punished according to hadood ordinance.

    First you said;
    “Im happy tht u hv learned to laugh …it’s a healthy activity which as u now know its not unislamic which previously u thought was against shariah…so keep on laughing and I really don’t mind if u really tear the sky off……….
    Then you said;
    “laughing was reference to all other wordly things which we give preference over the word of allah ………….
    You people should know that what ever you write become recorded history of conversation. I don’t know what you say about this act, I call it a blatant lie.
    In last I want to know “WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE??? WHERE DO YOU COME FROM???

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 18, 2008 at 1:43 pm

  459. Hahahaha…………….. u hv finally discovered ur funny bone……on one side u say tht im from mars and then u want to know from where do I come from??????????????? Maybe all those who oppose ghazi are frm mars in ur opinion…………in my opinion all hv been created by Allah…I hope u agree……as far as ur suggestion that 4 witnesses are only reqd 4 declaring chastity of umhat ul momeneen or women of good character is false…..

    Ayat 4, surah noor clearly states the reqt of 4 witnesses for alleging zana against a women……however in ur opinion no witnesses are reqd for women like aunty shamim…if so how without any witness can their crime be proven?????? Only by ghazi say so??? This principle if agreed to would open a Pandora box…everyone would be free to declare someone they don’t like as corrupt or zani………as far as brothels are concerned how do u prove without witnesses tht a certain place is a brothel???????? Just by ehl e muhaala say so???????? Even if they hv not seen anything personally and its just a suspicion…………in our society its very easy to point finger at ladies……..all working ladies can be called low lives by ur standards…….the hadood ordinance also has many lacunas…the admissibility of forensic evidence is not there to prove rape …a women requires 4 witnesses ……how laughable!!!!!!!!! There is no provision of dna testing / seminal analysis…however fornicators/adulterers must be punished as per sharia rules….similarly all those who indulge in tohmat shd also be punished by 80 koras……..for argument sake if I agree tht the lady was owner of a brothel wat was the sharaee significance of kidnapping her??????????? And giving her free advertisement over the national media…..similarly hugging is indecent but neelofar bhaktiar maintains tht she was hugged by the man who was her trainer…it was not done by her permission……and hugging does not prove adultery or fornication…at the most it can be termed as indecent…nor does indecent behaviour makes some one a lowlife……

    ghazi;s double standards:

    1. both brothers were appointed caretakers of lal mosque by a military dictator zia who was involved in judicial murder of Bhutto but no problems at all….
    2. ghazi burnt meldy cinema and u all justify tht ghair islami movies are shown there…..but ghazi was willing to use all these pvt news channels for his publicity .despite the various highly indecent programmes being shown on these channels…..geo has been running documentaries making it easier for a common man frm where to get prostitutes, wat are the rates and wat are the gestures they use for invitation……….maybe these are public service messages but no problems here as well…..
    3. ghazi personally went for the afghan war waged by American money…..but ab America ganda hai…….whom he was fighting there??????? Basically the shiatie northern alliance whom he doesn’t consider muslims therefore must be killed.
    4. ghazi and his brother built a madrissa on encroached land…u also support mosques on encroached lands…..but u forget the Quran as did ghazi……I quote surah toba ayat 108 and 109….”( iss masjid mai tum kabhi kharay na hona , beshak who masjid k pehlay hi din sai jiski bunyad parhaizgari par rakhi gae hai who is qabil hai k tum is mai kharay ho……..109…..tou kia jis nai apni bunyad rakhi Allah sai dar aur iski raza par who bhalla ya who jis nai apni ne chunni aik garhay k kinaray tou who isay lai kar jahanum ki agg mai gir para aur Allah zalimon ko rah nahi deta……) jamia hifza as per ghazis own admission was built on encroached land …uski bunyad taqwa nahi thi jaisay Allah ka hukm hai ( yeh unkay kartooton sai zahir bhi hai) but ghazi has his own sharia.
    5. ghazi abducts aunty shamim but we do not hear anything abt her male clients….thts strange she was running a brothel without clients…convenient.
    6. Quran says tht if u kill one man it is killing of the humanity but ghazi sahib was responsible for killing 13 muslim soldiers…not of Indian army but of Pakistan police/army and rangers…..but it was self defence as u sa y…..very strange self defense against arrest coz army was not threatening to kill them if they had surrendered…..maulana burqa is still alive…umme hassan is also present.
    7. ghazi was fighting for sharia….but on the same hand he wanted to run frm this self created jihad and was asking for safe passage…thts really funny……maulana burqa secret negotiations k naam par pata nahi kidar bhag rahay thay…….umme hassan saas ko pechay chor k khud bhi bahir gae…itni jan piyari thi k shariat tou issuer hi nahi tha beta bhi bhool gia…devar kis khatay mai……….
    8. some say on this blog maulana burqa came out on ijal ul haq suggestion but umme hassan bakion ko choe kar kiun bahir aai?????????????
    9. wat was ghazi;s shariat…wat all he wanted???????????? Wat were his so called demands????????? Wat were his proposals to implement the Quran in letter and spirit???????? Danga fisad, aghwa, qatal , tohmat, burning…………
    Allahs commandments are not in conflict with ethics or morality infact these commandments spell out and define morality and ethics…..if u find any commandment in conflict with general ethics and moral values u r free to quote the ayat……

    Obl………..u must hv missed watching the documentary abt 9/11 i.e Fahrenheit 9/11…the documentary gave evidence which has not been refuted by the bin laden family or the bush family…watch it its easily available …….but maybe u r one of those who believe tht 9/11 was the work of afghanis/taliban….. but every one in the world is a lier except hamid mir and gen kiyani……..now u want me to admit tht im cia agent…previously it was qadiyani issue…u were rather updated of their temples as u hv visited them but ilzam dosron par
    U asked me abt the punishment of slandering…ur the biggest slanderers of all…Quran also forbids calling ppl by bad names but u convieniently call ppl kafir, qadiani, pimp, lowlife, bastard etc etc………….lolzzzzzzz……..

    Lastly , in defense of laughter I still consider it a healthy activity…u being a dr know tht it takes 14 muscles to smile and 72 to frown…my use of two meanings or more than 1 meaning abt laughter is not a lie……….i can atleast indulge in this harmless activity without fear of ur fatwa…….coz its much better than galam galoch which u prefer and maybe think its Islamic and sharaee……..

    Yes arif is really brave…atleast he is honest enough to admit tht ghazis way of doing was wrong and demands were correct……..my point exactly………praise him for his demands and punish him for his actions………..bat insaf ki hai

    by noman on Nov 18, 2008 at 6:47 pm

  460. i got it you are a teacher who teaches ordinary public,that how one can retort the cheap,deflective and perverted mentality.well done keep it up……

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 18, 2008 at 9:23 pm

  461. thanks for the compliment…….i hv quoted ayas from the Quran if u hv the guts to call them deflective and perverted well its ur choice…….

    these are the usual comments when ppl run out of answers, logic qand want to avoid the superior logic i.e Quran…….

    (tum kaho tou hakeeqat, hum kahain tou deflictive)

    ur last two post which comprised of self questions and answers and cutting/paste were really master pieces and creative confusion………….

    calling ppl qadiyani, pimp, low life , bastard etc etc according to u maybe are signs of knowledge and kamil emman………

    laughs out loud

    by noman on Nov 19, 2008 at 4:14 am

  462. calling ppl qadiyani, pimp, low life , bastard etc etc according to u maybe are signs of knowledge and kamil emman………

    in the last i will say that pimps, lowlives and bastards can be forgiven,even a qadiyani can be given hidaya.
    but there is no salvation for “MUNAFIQ”.
    ALLAH(swt) has such a wrath on munafiq that He told Nabi e kareem(saaw) not to pray for them,i will not listen any pray for munafiq even you(nabi kareem-saaw)pray for him.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 19, 2008 at 5:05 pm

  463. calling ppl qadiyani, pimp, low life , bastard etc etc according to u maybe are signs of knowledge and kamil emman………

    in the last i will say that pimps, lowlives and bastards can be forgiven,even a qadiyani can be given hidaya.
    but there is no salvation for “MUNAFIQ”.
    ALLAH(swt) has such a wrath on munafiq that He told Nabi e kareem(saaw) not to pray for them,i will not listen any pray for munafiq even you(nabi kareem-saaw)pray for him.
    (dead serious matter/not funny at all)

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 19, 2008 at 5:06 pm

  464. now ur trying to call me munafiq

    what for?????????/

    agar kisi bat ka jawab nahi hai tou galian to mat dou

    tumko wahi nazil hoti hai tht everybody else who opposes ur viewpoint is munafiq………

    ur still indulging in slander
    ….plz tell me wat Allah says abt slanderers…….

    basically ur approach is k agar choti gali sai kam na chalay tou uss sai bari gali dou………..aur phir uss sai bari……….

    app shaid galian denay ko shariat kehtay hain…..shame on you

    u must hv read my post above for which like my previous posts u hv no answers and ur typical approach is of galam galoch etc etc has started……..

    i invite u again to stop abusing as it is a sin….if u dont hv guts to appologise for abusing me atleast ask for forgiveness in isolation……….

    just to support urself u hv started supporting qadiyanis…..y not as u visit their temples………

    pimps, lowlives can be forgiven………tou yeh bat ghazi ko nahi pata thi………wat was the fuss abt???????????????????

    atleast not sharia kiunkay yeh tou app bhi mantay hai his actions were wrong but demand thek thi…………

    again i praise his demands but he, maulana burqa and ummehassan shd be punished for his actions ……..

    if ur unable to defend ghazi;s actions it means tht im munafiq………..ghazi ko ghalat mantay huway bhi usko ghalat kehnay sai dartay hain…………bari ego hai………….laughs out loud!!!!!!!!!!!

    ch ch ch ch ch………….i pity u

    whose mentality is cheap and perverted???????????? mine or urs????????????

    shame on u!!!!!!

    try something decent this time…..u will really feel gud im telling u……….

    by noman on Nov 19, 2008 at 10:05 pm

  465. @noman sahib!
    arey aapkiyoon dil par le gaey.aap jaisey ashiq e “quran o sunnah” ko koee munafiq keh sakta hey.khuda nakhuwasta aap kiyon honey lagay munafiq.
    munafiq to poora pakistan hey jo ghazee abbdul rasheed se hamdardee rakhta hey.
    munafiq to woh log hen jo kehtey hen ke ALLAH(swt) ki zameen par ALLAH(SWT) ka qanoon ho.
    munafiq to woh sarey mujahideen hen jo america ke khilaf kihad kar rahey hen.
    munafiq to woh log hen jo porn cd’s jalatey hen.
    munafiq to woh log hen jo aunty shameed aur neelofar bakhtiyar jaisee iffat maab auraton par bohtan lagatey hen.
    khuda nakhuwasta aapkiyon honey lagay munafiq.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 19, 2008 at 11:19 pm

  466. baraey meherbani hamen apni hansee se mehroom na kijiye.
    chalen aapki bat rakh leta hoon.
    “laughing was reference to all other wordly things which we
    give preference over the word of allah ………….

    hehehhhehehehelolzzzzzzz
    aapko aunty shameem ki kasam hans dijiye

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 19, 2008 at 11:24 pm

  467. Ur highly mistaken…….mai jahilon ki baton ko dil par nahi leta.
    Poora Pakistan ??????????????????????
    Kuch thora ho gia na………
    Ghazi k actions ko India/usa bhi support kartay hain……….

    Hamdardi tou ghazi sai mujko bhi both hai………bechara apni ego k haton mara gia……….poora Pakistan buzdil nikla…kisi nai usko support nahi kia.
    ……….really sad ……bechargi uski tou iss sai zahir hai k yateem bachay bachion k uskay 6 mahenay k dramay k bad bhi bahir sai uskay jahad mai koi shareek nahi hua……….really sad………

    akhri din tak tou sabko jan piyar thi sab sharaee demands sae passage ki nazar ho rahe thi shaid who sharaee safe passage mang raha tha……

    umme hassan election mai kab khari ho ge???????? Itni support sai tou she can be a pm aur maulana burqa Pakistan k pehlay burqaposh president…………

    serious question, y ur so reluctant to talk abt Quran???????????????

    Pooray Pakistan sai madad lai k hi meri post ka jawab dai dou to prove ghazis actions in the light of Quran and sunnat…….

    But who is interested in answering??????????????????
    Jawad sahib is just here to slander/abuse……..
    Opppppppps sharaee abuses…..

    Hahaha………aunty shamim ya koi aur kyuon????????/ laughing on ur helpness of ur incapability of answering back in the light of Quran and sunnat .

    by noman on Nov 20, 2008 at 5:02 am

  468. I thought “munafiqeen” do not exist any more, not at least in Pakistan. We used to call some one munafiq out of anger or to the person who lies too much.
    But this is the unique time in the history of Pakistan. Now we are looking the people who are defending all kinds of obscenity, rampant corruption, mockery with practice of Islam, cruel, sardonic and derisive commentaries for high level souls who fought for shariya and mercilessly massacred by “ sher diler sipahi”.
    Wow! What an era.
    It is an exemplary point where we see the one chanting quran and sunnah.
    It is a point of repentance to see the one quoting from Quran to legitimize obscenity, demolishing the mosque and killing of rasikh ul aqeeda mulims.
    Allah (swt) says in Quran;
    The Hypocrites, men and women, (have an understanding)
    with each other: they enjoin evil, and forbid what is
    just, and are close with their hands. They have forgotten
    Allah; so He hath forgotten them. Verily the Hypocrites
    are rebellious and perverse. Allah hath promised the
    Hypocrites men and women, and the rejecters, of Faith,
    the fire of Hell: therein shall they dwell: sufficient is
    it for them: for them is the curse of Allah, and an
    enduring punishment.
    ( AL TOUBA – 67/68 )

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 20, 2008 at 11:48 am

  469. finally u hv decided to discuss things in the light of Quran…i can also use the same ayat tht is ( al toba 67/68) to describe ghazi and his supporters……plz ponder on the word hypocrite……it includes some one who does not practice what he preaches.ghazi and his followers are a case in point…even you who support him are the biggest abuser i hv encountered on this blog…….now who is the hypocrite????????

    in ur own post u admitted tht ghazis actions crossed limits meaning tht they were wrong out of the bounds laid down by allah yet u call him rasikh ul aqeeda……now who is the hypocrite??

    u allege tht i m defending obscenity,corruption , mockery with practice of islam etc etc………it is the other way round…….calling any women corrupt without following the islamic edicts of witnesses etc is greater than obscenity……..now who is the hypocrite??

    as far as corruption is concerned if i encroach upon even one inch of land cda will take action, cda takes action every 3/4 months against encroachers in khi co etc but it did not take action coz of the same corruption , against jamia hifza…who bribed whom and why did this corruption take place. why a so called rasikh ul aqeeda muslim did not approach the authorities concerned for proper allotment of land…..why only qabza??????? now who is the hypocrite?????

    it is you and ghazi who made mockery of islam….just consider all your actions…abduction, qabza,killing , setting fire to public property and causing fisad…….galam galoch in your case…….now who is the hypocrite????????

    you and all his supporters ask others to believe you just coz u say so.but when some one asks u abt ur credentials u hv no answers…..all ghazi supporters are rasikh ul aqeeda by birth…it does not matter if they are doin unislamic deeds etc etc…..the strength of their emaan and qualifying factor is only ghazi rasheed……..

    those so called jihadis asked for safe passage……this is the greatest mockery . if tht had really believed in their cause they would not hv even offered to give up for their lives……they all knew tht they were wrong………..

    is burning porn cd centres a solution to the prob, in this manner the next step wud be burning of internet cafes and so on……geo , ary, ajj etc show all kind of indecent material and movies…….wat abt them???? woh tou sachay hain just coz they were against musharraf…

    emaan aur amal ki naai definition shaid yeh ho gi

    nawaz sharif was wrong thtsy musharraf shd do wrong.musharraf was wrong thtsy ghazi shd do wrong and so forth…….zardari tou hai hi sharaee sadar……

    as u hv started reading the Quran plz analyze ghazi;s actions and prove them by supporting ayas and sunnah……i would really be amazed if u discover nowzubillah the holy prophet(p.b.u.h) indulging in similar activities for the propogation of islam and enforcement of sharia

    by noman on Nov 20, 2008 at 2:52 pm

  470. Allah persistently draws our attention to in the Qur’an towards “munafiqeen”. Munafiqeen or Hypocrites, as the verses relate in the Quran, are two-faced people, who act as if they were pious believers, though they do not have faith. They are impostors. More importantly, they do not engage in such falsehood unaided; they aim to infiltrate the company of the believers, posing as one of them. The reason they seek to be accepted among the believers is to gain some personal advantage.
    They associate themselves with believers, appearing to be faithful, so as to deceive them in whatever way they can. Once they realize they will not be able to attain their desired end, however, or when the believers are faced with ordeals when tested by Allah, they immediately abandon them, thus revealing their true faces. Whether while or after leaving the presence of the believers, they do not abandon their agenda of bringing harm upon the believers, or fomenting conflict, and striving to ruin the unity of believers. For that reason, hypocrites are referred to in the Qur’an as “munafiqeen” (those who incite nifaq and fitnah).
    Hypocrites are a kind of people to whom Allah calls attention in many verses of the Qur’an, and against whom He repeatedly warns believers to be cautious. For this reason, a believer, who takes the Qur’an as his guide, needs to be vigilant against hypocrites, and be knowledgable of all their characteristics, for, every community of believers, who live by the morality of the Qur’an, will certainly encounter hypocrites.
    It would be very wrong to say that such people existed only in the time of our Prophet (saas), in Macca and Medina, for,-in every other period-as today, such characters are present right before us, under modern guises.
    In our present societies too, there are communities of hypocrites who assume they can conceal themselves by taking on the attributes of a believer. Deceptively, they ally with those who are unclear or insincere in their understanding of religion, as they are themselves, for the purpose of concealing the truth, changing it for falsehood, forming new sects, and bringing harm to the believers, both materially and spiritually.
    The Qur’an addresses to every nation and all ages. In compliance with the following verse,
    “… He will show you His Signs and you will recognize them.” (Surat an-Naml, 93),
    one who considers every matter in light of the “Quran , will recognize that the verses pertaining to hypocrites in the Qur’an, are accurate, and that, in our time also, such people, proving the miracle of the Qur’an, behave as they are described in the Qur’an. In that regard, believers expect that it would be an important form of worship in Allah’s sight to expose the evil intentions of the hypocrites, to reveal their true intentions, and to struggle ideologically, as prescribed by the Qur’an, to counter the war they wage against Allah and His religion.
    Being acquainted with the attributes of hypocrites is important for another reason; believers are responsible for educating themselves on these attributes. Being aware that inappropriate behavior is a quality of hypocrites or disbelievers renders a believer alert against such traits. Being arrogant, as well, is an attribute of hypocrites and disbelievers. However, in a moment of inattention, a believer might also act arrogantly. However, when he realizes that what he does is an attribute of a hypocrite or disbeliever, he immediately repents. For this reason, when reading the verses in reference to hypocrites, believers should also reassess themselves and derive the necessary lessons.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 20, 2008 at 3:03 pm

  471. plz read my post above and then answer, dont twist……..and avoid the issue

    and then tell me who is the hypocrite???????????????????????????

    by noman on Nov 20, 2008 at 3:17 pm

  472. @noman!
    ALLAH(swt) say in Quran about you;

    And who is more unjust than he who forbids that in places
    for the worship of Allah, His name should be celebrated?
    Whose zeal is (in fact) to ruin them? It was not fitting
    that such should themselves enter them except in fear.
    For them there is nothing but disgrace in this world, and
    in the world to come, an exceeding torment.
    (surah al-baqarah-114)

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 20, 2008 at 3:57 pm

  473. again an accusation…….dont quote ayas out of context…….i hv not at a single moment mentioned tht mosques shd not be used as places of worship……neither i hv in any manner supported the destruction of any legitimate mosque …..

    u may plz women abducted and placed inside places of worship etc for any reason what so ever
    also inform me abt the mosques in prophet;s time in which suicide bombers were trained and incited to cause mass murder of innocent ppl who were all muslims……..also quote me any incident in which the sahaba rasool (p.b.u.h) indulged in slander from the pulpit of the mosque………

    ghazi rasheed k actions k baray mai bhi ayat quote kijiyay……………ubkay yeh tamam crimes ibadat k zumray mai hargiz nahi atay

    Were the following acts for “a struggle to break the country free of shackles of a lawbreaker or “for the implementation of Shariah laws:
    Illegal encroachment on a government land,
    Illegal occupation of a childrens library,
    Kidnapping and illegal confinement of women,
    attack on businesses and forcing them to shut down,
    Kidnapping of policemen,
    Setting up parallel courts within a state against the laws of that state,
    Kidnapping and illegal confinement of foreigners,
    Snatching arms and equipments from security personnel,
    Firing and killing security personnel,
    damaging and burning, public and private property,
    Keeping arms and ammunition in a mosque for no apparent reason,
    not laying arms on the request of authorities and firing at security personnel during the leniency period of 5 full days,
    keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endangering their lives (also many of them got killed during the operation).
    If so many people have died and everything is so obvious with so many indications, then why is anyone not going to court? Secondly, when it was repeatedly announced for continuously five days that people inside should come out, and they will not be harmed, then what is the justification of anyone still hiding inside OR they were being kept there against their own will.

    still not answered any of my questions…….who is the hypocrite?????????????????????????

    by noman on Nov 20, 2008 at 6:04 pm

  474. i have no doubt in my mind for a single moment the time since i read your first post that you are not a muslim either you are a qadiyani or you are munafiq. later your post proved that you are a munafiq.i express my doubt about your disgusting behaviour and sick mentality that it is useless to repeat it again.
    i even can not pray for you knowing that you are a munafiq and fearing the wrath of Allah(swt)might be on me if i pray for you.
    as ALLAH(swt) said in Quran;

    “And, indeed, He has enjoined upon you in this divine writ that whenever you hear people deny the truth of God’s messages and mock at them, you shall avoid their company until they begin to talk of other things – or else, verily, you will become like them. Behold, together with those who deny the truth God will gather in hell the hypocrites”
    (sura al nisa-140)

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 20, 2008 at 6:53 pm

  475. In their outward appearance, hypocrites are almost no different from Muslims. Their intentions, however, is entirely different. To one considering their outward appearance, hypocrites could give the impression of being a pious person; with their speech, behavior and other traits, they impersonate believers and in their manner of worship, pretend conformity to religious norms.

    However, their understanding of the religion is a product of their errant rationale, rather than of the Qur’an. The basis of their perspective on religion is their ambition to reap personal benefits, and satisfy their own desires and intentions.

    In concealing these intentions, hypocrites strive to take advantage of those benefits that emerge from the positive environment fostered among believers who live by the morality of the Qur’an. They seek to profit personally from this bounty, abundance, beauty, peace, security, joy, unity, compassion, love and respect Allah has granted the believers as blessings. However, they believe none recognizes their opportunism but that they can readily deceive the believers. Moreover, they believe they are successful, a good fortune they attribute to their intelligence.

    However, though they think otherwise, hypocrites are truly deluded. For, to the true believer, even the slightest insincerity is apparent. Still, beyond that, Allah, Who is aware of the innermost thoughts, knows the real intentions of these people. Consequently, those attributes of a believer they pretend outwardly have no validity whatsoever in Allah’s sight.

    Allah relates this truth in the following verse, “… What they are doing [their worship] is purposeless.”
    (Surat al-Araf, 139)

    oreover, Allah knows of the hypocrites’ disingenuousness, and whatever else they think are able to conceal. Consequently, in the words of the Qur’an, through such insincerity, “… [hypocrites] deceive no one but themselves but they are not aware of it.”
    (Surat al-Baqara, 9)

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 20, 2008 at 7:02 pm

  476. hahahaha

    u make me laugh not coz u funny but coz ur simply pathetic…….now u claim tht u hv wahi coz u know tht someone is a munafiq or qadiyani…….wow………ur jahalat is evident by ur ability to question anyone’s emaan……..even after ur admission that u visit qadiani temples i have never called u a non muslim, qadiani .

    now who is munafiq????????????

    yesterday i came to know of a cameraman of cnbc pakistan named intisar…he was the first man to be shot by a sniper from lal masjid…his life has been destroyed as his spinal cord has been damaged…

    ghazi is entirely episode for this episode…u can confirm it independtly …frm ur posts its evident tht ur justification for ghazi will continue in the shape of abuses.

    u claimed tht entire pakistan supports him…..how false……i conducted a small survey in lhr and karachi asking what do u think abt ghazi abdul rasheed????????????answer was who is this chap????????i said lal masjid molvi, u support him????????????then the responses were
    + who hijacked the mosque
    +brainshed children
    + a friend in cnbc told me abt intisar and said they pray tht ppl like these brothers are punished strictly ans severly
    + we dont even know/recall him how can we support him
    +another said maulana burqa shd hv died as ghazi rasheed was in lesser control of things.
    +one said, this molvi burqa khud tou deal kar k bahir agia .imagine someone who is so opposed to the govt being and is being placed in the luxurious simly dam resthouse and later in a house in behria town.
    + one also adbiced me tht nobody even knows him in lhr or khi so dont waste time in talkin to ppl asking abt him…….

    who is the hypocrite????????????????????????????

    the funniest thing about u is that u can talk about anything but the issue and the criminal….you hv been trying to malign me by abusing me througout ur post but you hv not been able to quote a single ayat in favour of ghazibrothers……….

    you hv not answered a single point of my post…….i feel u dont even read them?????????? coz u just hv to abuse and for that reading is not reqd………..rather than quoting ayas to support ghazi;s actions ur picking out ayas and trying to allege tht all those who oppose u are munafiqs………
    ur really sick and hypocrite of the highest order!!!!!!i can easily quote the same ayas and call u a munafiq but in my opinion we can only question ppl;s actions in the light of Quran and sunnat not their emaan…as only Allah knows the haqeeqat of emaan……..

    please quote ayas for these actions……….

    u have also not able to support galam galoch…..the fact remains tht ur a pathetic person

    Were the following acts for “a struggle to break the country free of shackles of a lawbreaker or “for the implementation of Shariah laws:
    Illegal encroachment on a government land,
    Illegal occupation of a childrens library,
    Kidnapping and illegal confinement of women,
    attack on businesses and forcing them to shut down,
    Kidnapping of policemen,
    Setting up parallel courts within a state against the laws of that state,
    Kidnapping and illegal confinement of foreigners,
    Snatching arms and equipments from security personnel,
    Firing and killing security personnel,
    damaging and burning, public and private property,
    Keeping arms and ammunition in a mosque for no apparent reason,
    not laying arms on the request of authorities and firing at security personnel during the leniency period of 5 full days,
    keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endangering their lives (also many of them got killed during the operation).
    If so many people have died and everything is so obvious with so many indications, then why is anyone not going to court? Secondly, when it was repeatedly announced for continuously five days that people inside should come out, and they will not be harmed, then what is the justification of anyone still hiding inside OR they were being kept there against their own will.

    now who is the hypocrite???????????????????

    by noman on Nov 21, 2008 at 4:37 am

  477. jawad , the definitions of munafiqs really helped us in seeing the true face of ghazi and his followers….

    Allah relates this truth in the following verse, “… What they are doing [their worship] is purposeless.”
    (Surat al-Araf, 139)

    i believe that now u can finally see the mirror and recognise who is munafiq…….who was working for personal benefits , who was giving the impression of being pious by using lal mosque for personal benefits,who has got double standards :-

    1. both brothers were appointed caretakers of lal mosque by a military dictator zia who was involved in judicial murder of Bhutto but no problems at all….
    2. ghazi burnt meldy cinema and u all justify tht ghair islami movies are shown there…..but ghazi was willing to use all these pvt news channels for his publicity .despite the various highly indecent programmes being shown on these channels…..geo has been running documentaries making it easier for a common man frm where to get prostitutes, wat are the rates and wat are the gestures they use for invitation……….maybe these are public service messages but no problems here as well…..
    3. ghazi personally went for the afghan war waged by American money…..but ab America ganda hai…….whom he was fighting there??????? Basically the shiatie northern alliance whom he doesn’t consider muslims therefore must be killed.
    4. ghazi and his brother built a madrissa on encroached land…u also support mosques on encroached lands…..but u forget the Quran as did ghazi……I quote surah toba ayat 108 and 109….”( iss masjid mai tum kabhi kharay na hona , beshak who masjid k pehlay hi din sai jiski bunyad parhaizgari par rakhi gae hai who is qabil hai k tum is mai kharay ho……..109…..tou kia jis nai apni bunyad rakhi Allah sai dar aur iski raza par who bhalla ya who jis nai apni ne chunni aik garhay k kinaray tou who isay lai kar jahanum ki agg mai gir para aur Allah zalimon ko rah nahi deta……) jamia hifza as per ghazis own admission was built on encroached land …uski bunyad taqwa nahi thi jaisay Allah ka hukm hai ( yeh unkay kartooton sai zahir bhi hai) but ghazi has his own sharia.
    5. ghazi abducts aunty shamim but we do not hear anything abt her male clients….thts strange she was running a brothel without clients…convenient.
    6. Quran says tht if u kill one man it is killing of the humanity but ghazi sahib was responsible for killing 13 muslim soldiers…not of Indian army but of Pakistan police/army and rangers…..but it was self defence as u sa y…..very strange self defense against arrest coz army was not threatening to kill them if they had surrendered…..maulana burqa is still alive…umme hassan is also present.
    7. ghazi was fighting for sharia….but on the same hand he wanted to run frm this self created jihad and was asking for safe passage…thts really funny……maulana burqa secret negotiations k naam par pata nahi kidar bhag rahay thay…….umme hassan saas ko pechay chor k khud bhi bahir gae…itni jan piyari thi k shariat tou issuer hi nahi tha beta bhi bhool gia…devar kis khatay mai……….
    8. some say on this blog maulana burqa came out on ijal ul haq suggestion but umme hassan bakion ko choe kar kiun bahir aai?????????????
    9. wat was ghazi;s shariat…wat all he wanted???????????? Wat were his so called demands????????? Wat were his proposals to implement the Quran in letter and spirit???????? Danga fisad, aghwa, qatal , tohmat, burning…………
    Allahs commandments are not in conflict with ethics or morality infact these commandments spell out and define morality and ethics…..if u find any commandment in conflict with general ethics and moral values u r free to quote the ayat……

    who is the hypocrite?????????????????????????????????????

    by noman on Nov 21, 2008 at 1:06 pm

  478. You are a “munafiq” I have no doubt in my mind. It is crystal clear to me.
    Calling someone a munafiq is a very serious allegation, I think more serious than calling as “kafir”.
    Any one who fears ALLAH (swt) should be very care full in these things because otherwise he will be guilty of slandering and will be accountable in judgment day.
    I studied your most of posts, observed your behavior and lastly done analysis in the light of Quran and ahadeeth. My conclusion is that you are a “munafiq” the “munafiq” as per used in Quran and ahadeeth not as a slang word we use in our daily lives.
    I have a strong reason to say this and your posts are evidence that you are a munafiq according to Quran and ahadeeth.
    I have been expressed my contentions in the form of doubts so many times and now I present you my abriviato placiturn once again.
    First thing wile reading your post one thing strikes any one, the repeatedly use of religious terminologies like “Quran and sunnah” “shariyah” “iman” and incongruous references from Quran with deliberate distortion from original meaning. Which is not some thing which can be easily tampered as there is extremely hard and restless work behind the transfer of commentary and paraphrase from Rasool ullah(saaw) to succeeding generations without slightest possibility of misinterpretation.
    As Allah (swt) says in Quran;
    “Behold, it is We Ourselves who have bestowed from on high, step by step, this reminder? And, behold, it is We who shall truly guard it [from all corruption].
    (surah al-hijr / 09)
    That is why you munafiqeen must understand that you can not make fool by chanting “Quran and sunnah” or by misinterpretation.
    In the following I will prove (inshaALLAH) that what make you munafiq

    1) Your attitude towards masajid and madrisa which lacks the profound attachment and care which every Muslim have. In one Hadeeth Rasoolullah S has said: “The most beloved places to Allah are the masajid.”
    (Muslim)
    The Prophet S has stated in one Hadeeth that the condition of a Believer outside the masjid is that of a fish out of water. A fish obviously has no desire to be out of water and if it is taken out, will long to return, and will remain restless for as long as it is out of water. In the same Hadeeth, the sign of a munafiq (hypocrite) has been described as a bird in a cage, longing to be released there from as soon as possible.
    Rasoolullah S has said:
    “There are seven (types of persons) whom Allah will give protection with His Shade on the Day when there will be no shade except His Shade :…(one of them is) a person whose heart is attached to the masjid…”
    (Bukhari, Muslim)
    I did not see any kind of sanctity for masajid in your posts. In spite of saving masajid and madrisa which are claimed to be built illegally by most corrupt CDA, pervez musharraf and his security goons (including 100 year old masjid) later on was proved to be a great source of abashment court as court gave the verdict to rebuild the mosque, you gave the reference of masjid e zarrar which was built by your spiritual ancestors with the intention of spreading fitna. While these masajid is built by true muslims with the intention of saying prayers. You sacrilegiously and criminally mixed two events which do not have slightest resemblance. As mentioned in Quran clearly:

    “AND [there are hypocrites] who have established a [separate] house of worship in order to create mischief, and to promote apostasy and disunity among the believers, and to provide an outpost for all who from the outset have been warring against God and His Apostle. And they will surely swear [to you, O believers], “We had but the best of intentions!” -the while God [Himself] bears witness that they are lying
    (surah al tauba-107)

    By the way no masjid and madrisa in Islamabad was built on land peculated from a widow, orphan or any other citizen of Islamabad.
    Even though if I agree on the notion that the masajid and madrisa were built on peculated land of CDA your behavior is typical of a “munafiq” persistently and over vehemently insist on demolishing proves that you are a typical munafiq. In spite of demanding CDA to withdraw from ownership of a land you insisted on demolishing which is not a behavior of Muslim.

    2) Profound attachment and care for brothels and prostitutes.
    You don’t want to consider aunty sahmeem a pimp and she is running a brothel. It is a grave slander for you, while whole Islamabad knows about this brothel.
    You are mad about Chinese massage parlor incident.
    You were deeply shocked when I called neelofar bakhtiyar a “lowlife”.
    In your words:
    “Neelofar bhakitiar was hugged by a gora …does tht make the woman a non
    muslim or a lowlife as u say???????
    Indicates that you do not know about the pudency which every muslim by birth have.
    After so many complains when aunty shameem neither closed the brothel nor shifted to specific places for brothels and prostitutes ,students of jamia hafsa took an action and force these prostitute to repent. That incident made you extremely mad and you started cheap and disgusting lambastes against these rasikh ul aqeeda mulims.
    In the defense of brothels you again used your “munafiqana” trick and searched aayat which can be used against the act of jamia hafsa and then you find aayat of sura al noor. Which are specifically and exclusively about chaste women. But your munafiq nature never able to abstained from playing with the meaning of the words of Quran
    You implied the condition of 4 witnesses on the brothels. Your approach, favorites and preferences clearly indicate about your deeply rooted “infaq” or munafiqat
    While Islam insists on chastity and cleanliness of body and soul. Islam restricts its followers from evil deeds. ALLAH (swt) says in Quran:
    “Verily, as for those who like [to hear] foul slander spread against [any of]
    those who have attained to faith grievous suffering awaits them in this world
    and in the life to come: for God knows [the full truth], whereas you know [it]
    not.
    (surah al noor-14)

    Another place Allah (swt) says:
    “And bids you only to do evil, and to commit deeds of abomination, and to
    Attribute unto God something of which you have no knowledge.
    (surah baqarah -169)

    and bids you only to do evil, and to commit deeds of abomination, and to attribute unto God something of which you have no knowledge.
    In another place Allah(swt) says in Quran
    Say: “Verily, my Sustainer has forbidden only shameful deeds, be they open or secret, and [every kind of] sinning, and unjustified envy, and the ascribing of divinity to aught beside Him – since He has never bestowed any warrant therefore from on high and the attributing unto God of aught of which you have no knowledge.”
    (surah a’raf-33)

    While your actions your feelings and intentions can easily felt and seen through your persistent posts. Every muslim pious or sinner like me even can not think of defending the brothel in the neighborhood. Your continuous and relentless post with derogatory remarks who took action against these centers of evil. And desperate try to justify that action against “Quran and sunnah” is a proof of your munafiqat.
    Your sacrilegious approach to defend the obscenity clearly tells us that you do not have a fear of Allah(swt). Because you are a “MUNAFIQ”

    3) Countless, Persistent, disgusting and cheap lies with out any penitence about intentions of shohada e lal masjid and jamia hafsa about the numbers of shohada , ghazi rasheed ,hamid meer, gen jamshed kiyani and phosphorus bombs with highly offensive, derogatory and sardonic remarks against the high level souls of shohada e lal masjid and jamia hafsa. Indulgence in the action which is very close to an act of dancing and laughing over dead bodies. This clearly shows your deep rooted “NIFAQ” and hatred against rasikh ul aqeeda muslims.

    Allah (SWT) has described the Munaffiqoon in the Qur’an as follows (what means):
    “Among men are those who say: ‘We believe in Allah and the Last Day’, but they do not actually believe. They (think) that they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive their own souls. In their hearts is a disease so Allah has increased them in their disease and for them is a mighty punishment for the lies they used to tell.”
    (Al-Baqarah: 8-10)

    Anas (ra) reports that Rasool ul Allah (saaw) said:
    “Three (characteristics) if they are found (in an individual) then he is a Munafiq even if he (is
    seen) fasting and praying and says, ‘I am a Muslim.’
    If he speaks he lies, if he promises he breaks his promise and if he is entrusted he betrays the
    trust.”
    (Agreed Upon)

    (continued)

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 21, 2008 at 9:37 pm

  479. (continued)
    4) Challenge every one to prove the action of ghazi Abdul rasheed in the light of “Quran and sunnah” while his action is clearly justified by “Quran and ahadeeth”
    Before the presenting references from Quran about amr bilmaroof wa niha an il munkir. I would like to present a reference of Quran about the behavior of “munafiqeen” about that”
    Allah says in Quran:
    The hypocrites, both men and women, proceed one from another. They enjoin the wrong and forbid the right…”
    (Tauba, 9:67)
    Here is the answer of the challenge.
    “You are the best community that has been raised for mankind. You enjoin good and forbid evil and you believe in Allah.”
    (Aal-e-Imran, 3:110)
    . “The believers, men and women, are protectors of each other: they enjoin what is right and forbid what is evil.”
    (Tauba, 9:71)

    A very famous hadith declares it as an issue of faith.
    “Whoever amongst you sees an evil should change it with his hand. If he is unable to do that then with his tongue. If he is unable to do that, then with his heart, and that is the weakest level of Iman.”
    (Muslim)
    So if a person does not even feel bad about an evil, he has no faith whatsoever. Similarly we are encouraged to promote good
    “Let there arise out of you a group inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong. They are the ones to attain success.”
    (Aal-e-Imran, 3:104)

    These aayat e mubarika and hadeeth clearly justify the actions of ghazi abdul rasheed. These aayat are acceptable for muslims but as I don’t see fear of Allah(swt) in your attitude these will not acceptable for you.
    5) celebration on massacre and defeat of helpless rasikh ul aqeeda muslim.
    As I mentioned earlier that every Muslim Pakistani grieved the massacre of helpless rasikh ul aqeeda muslims.even liberals who believed that religion is a private matter. And disagree with ghazee abdul rasheed on imposing shariat. Because of inherent affiliation between muslims.as rasool ullah said:
    Ummat is like a body when one part hurts the other part feel pain.
    Only a “munafiq” or kafir can be happy on this tragedy. You go many steps further and started laughing while mentioning about those high level shohada.LOLZZZzzzzzzhahhahahah……..heheheheheehehehe and so on.it clearly indicated that you have no fear of Allah(swt) and defeat and death is highly welcoming for you. You celebrated at triumph. And revealed your self a real”munafiq”

    The aim of this post is not to blame some one but to defend the servants of Allah(swt) who love Allah(swt ) and his order, fought promotion of virtue and prevention of vice, have no reluctance to sacrifice even their lives.
    The purpose of this post is to defend the honor and respect of high level and exalted shohada and to reiterate my determination that I will inshaAllah always be there where I found a “munafiq” and to protect innocent and naive muslims against the pretence propagated by munafiqeen. Any muslim who read this post would be aware of munafiqeen chanting “Quran and sunnah”.when ever I remind this aaya of holy quran;
    “Verily, as for those who like [to hear] foul slander spread against [any of]
    those who have attained to faith grievous suffering awaits them in this world
    and in the life to come: for God knows [the full truth], whereas you know [it]
    not.
    (surah al noor-14)
    I feel pity for you.
    May ALLAH save us all from the fire who’s fuel will be the humans.
    May ALLAH save all from the pretense of modern age?
    May ALLAH save us from the pretence of exterior as well interior?

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 21, 2008 at 9:39 pm

  480. Lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Hahahahaha

    Dr sahib in anger u certainly crossed all limits……control ur anger and talk sense……first of all I do not care abt fatwas by ppl who indulge in abusive language/slander and visit qadiyani temples…….however on reading ur posts I was struck by ur confused personality………the subject under discussion if I may remind u is wether ghazi was shaheed or halak………u hv not given a single argument in favour of this gentleman yet………the only reference is to the ayas referring to amar bil maroof……..if u notice thts what the army did and that’s what im doing………that’s the only purpose of me being on this blog tht is preventing islam from being hijacked by ordinary ghundas and qabza groups……………..neither u hv answered any of my questions nor mentioned a single action in light of Quran and sunnat……..tomorrow u will start justifying bank robberies etc etc for collection of money for paying zakat………hahahaha..
    U allege again and again that I support destruction of mosques, noway…the mosque destroyed by cda shd be built…it was a wrong action…100 yrs old mosque shd not hv been destroyed..the ppl who did it shd be punished ……you urself say tht the court has ordered reconstruction therefore it is evident tht courts are the forum to decide disputes, common sense…….this is the same which is lacking in burqa brothers when they started looting , burning slandering, abducting just to save illegally constructed jamia hafza………instead of insisting tht all places of worship be built on taqwa as mentioned in Quran sorah toba ayat 108-110 u believe tht illegal construction shd be justified and later ratified……..you want a similar ratification of all ghazi crimes……….aurtain aghwa ki thts amar bil maroof………..lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Brothels………. I hv not supported any brothel …plz show me the firs launched against any brothel incl aunty shamim if it was a brothel ……..it was as publicity stunt………..as far as entire isb knows abt the brothel ur in a habit of using extreme words…..poora Pakistan, poora isb……….hv some sense……..a small place in g6 known by entire isb??? But even if I bel u and ghazi I hv the right to question the timing of his amar bil maroof and munkir……..aunty shamim started workin in 2007????????? Pehlay ghazi so raha tha????????????????? Where were male clients……still no answers?????????? Wat sharaee significance of kidnapping???????????????????? And if it was a correct act why is it not being repeated in pir vidhai faizabad etc known places of corruption…………umme hassan is still alive…..25oo students of isb still alive……..musharraf is no longer there to stop them……………….neelofar………is concerned I still stand by what I say…………….geo par fahashi jaiz hai kiunkay wahan biyanat denay hain yah amid mir hai………..but those who oppose u they shd not be respected at all and called munafiqs.

    Hamid mir, kiyani, phosphorous bombs…………read my posts above…regarding these 3 u answer my questions………phosphorous bombs is not there with Pakistan army…I do not agree with politically motivated faujis who lie on tv…………kiyani shd hv resigned and refused being promoted to rank of lt gen and chairman fbsc…..however he did not…

    A very famous hadith declares it as an issue of faith.
    “Whoever amongst you sees an evil should change it with his hand. If he is unable to do that then with his tongue. If he is unable to do that, then with his heart, and that is the weakest level of Iman.”
    (Muslim)
    The army actions were exactly in the light of this hadith………..
    Celebration over dead bodies……….this is an absurd allegation
    1. it was not a massacre of innocent ppl.tthey were all criminals and shd hv been punished.even maulana burqa and umme hassan shd be punished for the murder committed by them.
    2. u call them rasikh ul aqeeda and still say that thy crossed limits…..thtsy I do hehehehe
    pooray Pakistan ki theory kal clear kar di thi………..im also a Pakistani reside in isb and disagree with you…….and there are millions more like me ppl who hv lost their lives in suicide bombing , families of army/police personal killed/wounded by ghunda of burqa brothers , cnbc whole channel coz their cameraman was disabled by ghazi sahib………….mqm which represents entire Karachi ………..poora pakistan kaisay????????
    In all ur posts u hv only raised fingers on my neyat ,a matter which is strictly between me and Allah…………I on the other hand do not question your neyat I only question your and ghazi;s actions………you hv still not supported the use of abusive language …maybe thts also amar bil maroof as ur doing it……….similarly the burqa brothers hv given up their so called jihad, they were and are not helpless at all………if jihad was must then it shd be must now as also as the evils are still in the society………….u want ppl to respect burqa brothers on making a mockery of islam and infront of entire world………they ran away and u call them rasikh ulaqeeda……….even by ur definition they are not ……..

    Answer ghazi double standards:-

    1. both brothers were appointed caretakers of lal mosque by a military dictator zia who was involved in judicial murder of Bhutto but no problems at all….
    2. ghazi burnt meldy cinema and u all justify tht ghair islami movies are shown there…..but ghazi was willing to use all these pvt news channels for his publicity .despite the various highly indecent programmes being shown on these channels…..geo has been running documentaries making it easier for a common man frm where to get prostitutes, wat are the rates and wat are the gestures they use for invitation……….maybe these are public service messages but no problems here as well…..
    3. ghazi personally went for the afghan war waged by American money…..but ab America ganda hai…….whom he was fighting there??????? Basically the shiatie northern alliance whom he doesn’t consider muslims therefore must be killed.
    4. ghazi and his brother built a madrissa on encroached land…u also support mosques on encroached lands…..but u forget the Quran as did ghazi……I quote surah toba ayat 108 and 109….”( iss masjid mai tum kabhi kharay na hona , beshak who masjid k pehlay hi din sai jiski bunyad parhaizgari par rakhi gae hai who is qabil hai k tum is mai kharay ho……..109…..tou kia jis nai apni bunyad rakhi Allah sai dar aur iski raza par who bhalla ya who jis nai apni ne chunni aik garhay k kinaray tou who isay lai kar jahanum ki agg mai gir para aur Allah zalimon ko rah nahi deta……) jamia hifza as per ghazis own admission was built on encroached land …uski bunyad taqwa nahi thi jaisay Allah ka hukm hai ( yeh unkay kartooton sai zahir bhi hai) but ghazi has his own sharia.
    5. ghazi abducts aunty shamim but we do not hear anything abt her male clients….thts strange she was running a brothel without clients…convenient.
    6. Quran says tht if u kill one man it is killing of the humanity but ghazi sahib was responsible for killing 13 muslim soldiers…not of Indian army but of Pakistan police/army and rangers…..but it was self defence as u sa y…..very strange self defense against arrest coz army was not threatening to kill them if they had surrendered…..maulana burqa is still alive…umme hassan is also present.
    7. ghazi was fighting for sharia….but on the same hand he wanted to run frm this self created jihad and was asking for safe passage…thts really funny……maulana burqa secret negotiations k naam par pata nahi kidar bhag rahay thay…….umme hassan saas ko pechay chor k khud bhi bahir gae…itni jan piyari thi k shariat tou issuer hi nahi tha beta bhi bhool gia…devar kis khatay mai……….
    8. some say on this blog maulana burqa came out on ijal ul haq suggestion but umme hassan bakion ko choe kar kiun bahir aai?????????????
    9. wat was ghazi;s shariat…wat all he wanted???????????? Wat were his so called demands????????? Wat were his proposals to implement the Quran in letter and spirit???????? Danga fisad, aghwa, qatal , tohmat, burning…………
    Allahs commandments are not in conflict with ethics or morality infact these commandments spell out and define morality and ethics…..if u find any commandment in conflict with general ethics and moral values u r free to quote the ayat……
    answer my specific questions in nov 10 post and and my questions regarding hamid mir…
    who is the hypocrite????????????????????????

    by noman on Nov 22, 2008 at 5:12 am

  481. i read your whole post it was no different from previous posts.a repeat of same kind of arguments again and again.
    i gave my arguments.May Allah(swt) forgive if there is a human error in my post.
    let the Allah(swt) decide who will get his mercy ghazee abdul rasheed and shohadea e lal masjid o jamia hafsa OR you,pervez musharraf and his cronies and goons of army.
    done is done there is no more ghazee abdul rasheed and shohada e lal masjid o jamia hafsa.
    but i believe some others will appear and will keep appearing till Allah(swt) law prevail on His land.
    i believe the sacrifices given will never be wasted.
    INSHAALLAH there will be new people and new mujahid to continue this war.
    aehl e iman jahan men misl e khursheed jeetey hen.
    idhar doobay udhar nikley, udhar doobey idhar nikley

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 22, 2008 at 10:55 am

  482. look who is talking????????????

    u believe that it is a repition coz u hv not answered a single of my question………your poition is based on lies and u just stick to it………..the petty criminals who died in lal masjid are no more………i pray to allah that such criminal hiding under the guise of islam and jihad do not ever appear again……..but you are right tht people like these sick creatures do exist and may come again and again…….

    the falsehood of your claim that it was jihad is evident from the fact nobody including u is continuing ghazi;s so called runaway jihad……..these include his brother and his wife plus the surviving students……..

    again indulging in slander and accusation…i hv never pervez musharraf criminal acts…however this act shd be supported…the goons of army are maybe those rasikh ul aqeeda soldier who were killed at the hands of these mufsids inside lal mosque…….my heart goes out to the families and the individuals of the brave souls who gave up their lives to save the ppl from pakistan from these terrorist…….

    few months ago a lady professor of quaid e azam university came in capital talk along with umme hassan…..even ummehassan could not answer the similar points raised by the lady…..and u claim whole pakistan starts that mentally sick molvi…….u did not comment hamid mir claim abt suicide jacket…….neither u comment hamid mir;s changing side against to pro ghazi in one night

    who is hypocrite????????????

    u still hv not mentioned why kiyani was accepting all the benefits/promotions from the same general of whom he was against since kargil issue………

    u chose not to comment on the options of resolving the brothel issue……neither u told me the sharaee significance of aunty shamim abduction????? or about male clients?????? and also refrained from obscenity being shown on various tv channels just coz ummehasan comes on these channels………thtsy they are not lowlives

    who is hypocrite????????/

    u hv miserably failed to explain ghazis actions…..no justification has also been given of the jihad waged in a black burqa by mulana burqa nor of the sharaee surrender by the students, nor of the sharaee escape of maulana burqa , nor the reason y ummehasan aboned her female students inside and went out…….

    the value of jihad for these students was evident when on the very first night when they started crying after surrendering on tv tht they were not 5000 rs as promised by the govt……………lolzzzzzzz

    u hv also not explained y ghazi was lying abt the presence of children in the mosque………u may term it tactics in the same manner as u termed announcement of suicide bombers inside as tactics……….laughable..

    u also failed to explain ghazis demands and means to implement the shariat in letter and spirit??????????no written document has so far surfaced explaining the changes required in the constitution of pakistan or banking sector…..who all did he consult before launching this so called jihad???????? no major religious org came out in support of him.

    aunty shamim……. where were the firs/complaints lodged against the woman tht the abduction was the only solution……if the lady was corrupt u only provided her with free advertisement of her services……..nothing ever read abt her in papers/tv before but now she is the household name……the fame and opportunity provided to her by ghazi now has translated ur allegation tht entire isb knows abt her is true………

    u hv also not explained the sharee abuses which u hv been giving on this blog against my person, nor hv u explained how ghazi was rasikh ul aqeeda despite having crossed limits…….ur belief as evident now is based upon crap so dont tell me tht u believe it thts y its true…..

    comment by dr.jawwadkhan on October 31, 2008 @ 6:01 pm

    ghazi abdul rasheed demanded? one can differ the methodology (including me)but his demand is just right

    yet u call him rasikh ul aqeeda…….thtsy i laugh

    u said yesterday tht ghazis actions were justified under certain ayas……wow what a sudden discovery coz u were disagreeing with his methodology in ur above mentioned post……..if ghazi ctimes can be termed as jihad then george bush according to ur definition would be a bigger jihadi….all israelis wud also be called jihadis as per ur interpretition………musharaf , zardari , nawaz apkay bhi sharaee nro mai jihadi hi kehlain gai……….

    who is the hypocrite????????????????

    by noman on Nov 22, 2008 at 7:15 pm

  483. your questions are the questions of a moran and full of stupidity and devoid of truth.wrapped in slanders,lies and derisive comments against the high level shohada. however i gave answers of all questions not for sake of point scoring but for revealing the ugly face of munafiqat,to protect ordinary mulims from being prey of poisonous propaganda, you are being carried out.
    the problem is that most of your post is consist of nothing but bull shit.it’s a very difficult for me to sort out the real question from derogatory,disgusting and a really very cheap commentary. i tried my best and answerd every question which was nearer to the decency.
    as i proved your munafiqat from quran and ahadeeth.
    as you are not the seeker of truth i believe you should wait for the moment when you die and haqqaniyat will reveal it self to you.

    May ALLAH save us all from the fire who’s fuel will be the humans.
    May ALLAH save all from the pretense of modern age?
    May ALLAH save us from the pretence of exterior as well interior?

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 22, 2008 at 9:55 pm

  484. hahahahahaha

    u hv tried to answer…………lolz
    plz cut paste ur answers maybe i hv missed them…u answer my nov 22 posts …the questions are very clear………u could understand the alleged slander etc etc in my questions……u could also understand how to prove me a munafiq……….hahaha……….yet u say tht my questions were cheap and not clear and so ur unable to understand them then howcome u figured munafiqat and slaner etc out of something which u couldnt understand and sort out…………….
    the fact of the matter is that my questions are crystal clear ……..u talk about decency…….do u want me again to cut /paste the decent sharaee abuses which u hv been giving in ur posts………as far as u proving me munafiq from Quran u r again lying………u hv only posted ayas defining munafeeqen frm the Quran and on there analysis they point in the direction of burqa brothers and those present inside the lal mosque…..

    ur attempt to prove ur point by sharaee galam galoch can also under munafiqat…….u agree tht ghazi;s methodology was not correct , later u call them rasikh ul aqeeda this u turn can also be termed as munafiqat but y would u care……u claim tht its not a matter of point scoring for u but on the same hand u allege and continue to slander by calling me qadiyani , munafiq, pimp etc etc

    the fact of the matter is its not abt right or wrong for u its just abt winning or losing as clear from ur post below…ur ego will never let u c the truth

    comment by dr.jawwadkhan on November 7, 2008 @ 11:13 pm

    hahahahahahahahaha
    right now i am laughing at your self proclaimed victory
    keep dreaming……..

    u tried to call me bad names just to confuse and divert attention abt the crimes of burqa brigade

    who is the hypocrite??????????????

    i now challehnge u to highlight the questions which are not clear in my nov 22 post or even in posts above………..please dont give me poora pakistan theory again as this has also been proven wrong………

    i really pity ur helplessness as ur position is based on lies and u very well know abt it……..

    by noman on Nov 23, 2008 at 6:45 am

  485. well keep challanging.i will always be there whenever i found a munafiq in a disguise.
    i will be there INSHAALLAH whenevr i see some snake spewing venom against high level shaohada and practice of islam.
    do not behave like a “CHHINAL”.be a man. man do not bolsters his questions with slanders,lies and derogation.
    what has been done in last year,is a recorded history and no munafiq can smear the history with lies,slanders and cheap and disgusting behaviour.
    man talks throuh his heart.what is in your interior ,should be on exterior.don’t behave like a ssissified. be a man.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 23, 2008 at 4:31 pm

  486. comment by dr jawwadkhan nov 23, 2008

    (do not behave like a “CHHINAL”.be a man. man do not bolsters his questions with slanders,lies and derogation.)

    Hahaha.lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    ( tum kaho tou haqeeqat, hum kahein tou derogation)

    finally you are admitting that u understood my questions which previously u were denying tht they were not clear……the statement given by you describes u fully coz this is exactly what you are doing and you are correct when u say

    (what has been done in last year,is a recorded history and no munafiq can smear the history with lies,slanders and cheap and disgusting behaviour.)

    your last post again was not aimed at answering any of my question as mentally you hv accepted tht u don’t have answers for burqa brothers sharaee crime…….your post was aimed at leveling further abuses like chhinnal , munafiq , snake ,slanderer and finally sissy………….
    Look who is talking??????????????
    Your hypocrisy and sissiness is evident from the fact that on one hand u support ghazi and his band of thugs and on the other hand u chose not to join him…….now who is the sissy???????? Maut ka dar hai ya jantay ho k yeh sab kuch ghalat hai?????????? I believe a little of both….coz u urself admitted tht his methodology was wrong……..either u were lying then or lying now ……….please decide……….
    And then lets decide once and for all is the person who is just questioning ghazis actions in the light of Quran and sunnah, tht is me , a lier/ slanderer or you and burqa brothers who broke all laws of Pakistan like musharraf and tried to defame islam by doing unislamic acts ion the name of shariah and there supporters can only support them with galam galoch , calling other kafir, munafiq qadiyani etc……
    If u cannot write after a detailed deliberation or research then plz don’t waste your time….. previously u used to call me qadiyani with full conviction then ur conviction changed and started calling me a munafiq…y???????? coz I don’t support ghazi………

    My questions are based on a reading of the Quran and the comparison with burqa brothers doings and interviews on tv/papers……….contradictions which exist in burqa brothers conduct hv been admitted by u as well ………all my questions are public knowledge …..ghazi took over the library, he murdered soldiers/cameraman,policeman, burned a neighbouring govt office, cinema and shops, abducted policemen, women, possessed weapons illegally, constructed a madrissa on encroached land,brainwashed children and attempted to use them as human shields………..these are just a few of his crimes……….he also misused the name of islam for personal gain
    1st he raised the slogan of sharia for cheap popularity , then caused a lot of fisad which resulted in deaths of numerous innocent ppl , finally disowning his own cause/demands for jaan ki amaan and safe passage thtsy his brother and his wife ran away from the scene…………..this is the truth as recorded by history…….
    If all this is slander prove it that im wrong………….
    Lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    No answers for hamid mir , kiyani and all of the above………..
    Hahahahaha
    The extremism /terrorism of burqa brothers and their supporters is evident when they call all those who oppose them as kafir/qadiyani/munafiq………..
    Who is the hypocrite?????????????????????
    You hv been naggating ur own words and stand time and again in your posts………..
    Who is the lier?
    Who is the slanderer???
    Who is munaiq?????
    Laughs out loud!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by noman on Nov 23, 2008 at 9:11 pm

  487. Who is the hypocrite?????????????????????
    there was absolutely no need for so many question marks.
    ask anyone…

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 23, 2008 at 9:28 pm

  488. since few days i was reading the posts from the begining of the blog.
    it was very interesting to see that you are present here since 1 year, with different names like
    @NAUMAN(not noman)
    @AYESHA
    @R.A.J.A
    any one who read your posts can easily see that there is only one snake in human skin,who is spewing the poison.
    using same ip address as pointed out by teeth maestro in august13th2007 post.
    i read how @HAQ and @dark cloud kicked your munafiqana butt.
    and analysis by @haq was astonishing revealing your munafiqana and cheap technique of lies and filthy propaganda
    with the heading of “DOUBLE VISION” on 11th of august2007.

    you people should know that masses can not be fooled in this period of time where every one has an multiple source of high tech information and knowledge.

    still laughing?

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 23, 2008 at 10:33 pm

  489. dhitaee aur besharmee ki bhee koee had hotee hey…..

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 23, 2008 at 10:35 pm

  490. aik bat aur agar ghazee abdul rasheed tumharee tarah hijrha hota to is tarah shaheed na kia jata.
    molana abdul aziz aur umme hassan agar tumharee tarah munafiq hotey to apni man aur bete se mehroom na hotey.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 23, 2008 at 10:55 pm

  491. Laughs out loud

    I hv not kicked by anyone as im still on the blog..but many hv seen the light due to my arguments.what I failed to understand abt ur closing argument of all those who died in lal masjid not being hijras is very funny.you implied that all those who ran away were hijras.this then includes maulana burqa . your categorization of umme hassan and other female students with this lot is also degrading for the hijras as hijras are better humans than the burqa brothers and hifza brigade …atleast they don’t indulge in crimes I hv already mentioned in all my posts

    Now about use of multiple ids from the same ip address…..
    I read posts of raja, nauman/noman,ayesha………….raja posts are pro ghazi ….u trying to say I posted them???lolz……….nauman/noman/usebrains are my id….when did I deny….rather with usebrains id I identified myself that I am same nauman or noman….this has been revealed to u as well tht im on this blog last yr….when did I deny……..what teeth maestro has pointed was spam……..i hv network problem…..therefore my post used to upload 2/3 times and he used to delete it……it happens now also and I have to be very careful …..u can see my applogy later to teeth maestro abt the fact on the blog……as far as haq double vision is concerned…I gave a detailed answer to which he did not reply…………..later when on the blog I discovered two different statements of sadia habib i.e first she said my cousins surrendered frm masjid , later it was she even ordinary Pakistani commented tht where is tht expert haq to comment on this as he claims to be best in analyzing posts…….
    Moreover with my usebrains id somebody else misused it to support ghazi…….similarly once I pointed out that waqas id was used by another id for posting pro ghazi comments……………….

    Haq tried to shift the attention by this post double vision and a reason to run away from the blog……….what abt dark cloud??????????????? He left after he had no answers…….waqas also did the same

    Laughs out loud

    I don’t need to support the truth by multiple ids…..if it was the case u would have been reading multiple post against ghazi but after dark cloud only I stayed regularly on this blog till now………………..it is evident im not using multiple ids…….but u will keep on alleging and accusing different crap………coz thts ur style…………

    U don’t hv answers for ghazis action …teeth maestro also agreed in one of his post after being convinced by the arguments of those who oppose ghazi tht ghazi is not a shaheed….. I had not even joined the blog at that time……

    dhitaee aur besharmee ki bhee koee had hotee hai………u talking abt urself???????

    U hv attempted to prove me a qadiyani ………….by ur saying so im not qadiyani……so what so special about haq double vision………that was also an accusation like urs…….
    By ur own definition ur hijra then as u also did not embrace the so called shihadat?????
    You hv been trying to conduct a derogatory research on me coz u hv no answers for ghazis crimes…………. U again have convieniently side stepped the issue at hand tht is the legitimacy of ghazis actions ….ur just trying to confuse the issue by use of select material from this blog which to your mind maybe suits you…………the fact of the matter is that all ghazi supporters left one by one without answering my questions
    I give answers for all the questions raised by you…but u hv not done so?????????????
    Who is the hypocrite???????????????????
    U call me munafiq ….but havnt I pointed out your own hypocrisy, lies many a times …….
    Yes im still laughing !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    so when are u giving my answers regarding ghazi;s double vision????????????

    by noman on Nov 24, 2008 at 7:16 am

  492. dhitaee aur besharmee ki bhee koee had hotee hey…..

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 24, 2008 at 11:41 am

  493. KAFIR KAFIR SHIA KAFIR.

    by awaz of PAK on Nov 24, 2008 at 5:03 pm

  494. jawaad i feel the same abt u…….. ur at loss of words and logic about ur allegations /slander and ghazi;s unislamic activities………

    i will modify my statement that dhitaee aur besharmee ki in ur case waqai koi had nahi…..

    the mark of respect shown to ghazi by urself by comparing him with hijras and calling maulana burqa , ummehassan and coward students and people not joining ghazis cause and call for jihad as hijras (include urself) is really laughable….however hijras shd go on strike on being compared with such criminals…..ghazi also was willing to surrender as indicated by the media ..he also wanted safe passage so now who is the hypocrite???????????( i will not call him hijra because hijras are also Allahs creations and deserve respect)
    u can reduce ur besharmi by admitting that u have no answers and just busy wasting time…..

    i have answered all your questions/allegations…but dhitaee aur jihalat ka ilaj sirf taleem hai which u lack….

    laughs out loud

    i believe its a decision to avoid the topic in hand by indulging in galam galoch/abuses/useless allegations and wasted activities……

    i expect everything out of u except supporting your arguement by answering the questions

    laughs out loud

    by noman on Nov 24, 2008 at 6:15 pm

  495. laugh out loud!
    kicked on butt
    laugh out loud!
    hell waiting hereafter?
    laugh out loud!
    wrath of ALLAH (swt)
    laugh out loud!
    angels of tourment in the grave
    laugh out loud!
    laugh out loud! because you will not have the opportunity of laughing after you die.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 24, 2008 at 6:50 pm

  496. admitting that ur speechless
    admitting that u cannot justify ur arguement
    admitting that u can only indulge in taunts
    admitting that u can only abuse/slander
    admitting that u lack manners/decency
    admitting that ur here just to waste time
    admitting that it is just about ego not islam(in ur case)
    admitting that u now associate with hijras ( as per ur explaination)
    laughs out loud
    laughs out loud
    laughs out loud!!!! because u will get the opportunity of answering about ur galam galoch/slander/abuses/lies in the hereafter

    ( tum kaho tou haqeeqat, hum kahain tou blah blah blah)

    who is the hypocrite?????????

    by noman on Nov 25, 2008 at 4:13 am

  497. aik bat kahoon,
    bura mat man-na.
    men ne zindagi men tum jaisa dheet aur besharam aadmi naheen dekha.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 25, 2008 at 11:37 am

  498. yes i know
    tht u u dont hv mirror in your house
    otherwise u wouldnt have been complaining :))))))))))
    laughs out loud

    admitting that ur speechless
    admitting that u cannot justify ur arguement
    admitting that u can only indulge in taunts
    admitting that u can only abuse/slander
    admitting that u lack manners/decency
    admitting that ur here just to waste time
    admitting that it is just about ego not islam(in ur case)
    admitting that u now associate with hijras ( as per ur explaination)
    laughs out loud
    laughs out loud
    laughs out loud!!!! because u will get the opportunity of answering about ur galam galoch/slander/abuses/lies in the hereafter

    who is the hypocrite????????????

    lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    by noman on Nov 25, 2008 at 1:39 pm

  499. since few days i was reading the posts from the begining of the blog.
    it was very interesting to see that you are present here since 1 year, with different names like
    @NAUMAN(not noman)
    @AYESHA
    @R.A.J.A
    any one who read your posts can easily see that there is only one snake in human skin,who is spewing the poison.
    using same ip address as pointed out by teeth maestro in august13th2007 post.
    i read how @HAQ and @dark cloud kicked your munafiqana butt.
    and analysis by @haq was astonishing revealing your munafiqana and cheap technique of lies and filthy propaganda
    with the heading of “DOUBLE VISION” on 11th of august2007.

    you people should know that masses can not be fooled in this period of time where every one has an multiple source of high tech information and knowledge.

    still laughing?

    dhitaee aur besharmee ki bhee koee had hotee hey…..

    aik bat aur agar ghazee abdul rasheed tumharee tarah hijrha hota to is tarah shaheed na kia jata.
    molana abdul aziz aur umme hassan agar tumharee tarah munafiq hotey to apni man aur bete se mehroom na hotey.
    aik bat kahoon,
    bura mat man-na.
    men ne zindagi men tum jaisa dheet aur besharam aadmi naheen dekha.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 25, 2008 at 9:03 pm

  500. hahahahaha

    ur post is a repitition of crap tht is abuses/ acusations and allegations…….if u were not satisfied by my answer to haq u can refute it point ny point …..teeth maestro has indicated my span mail which i clarified later in one of my post to teeth maestro………

    u did not tell me how haq and dark cloud kicked me out????
    both could not answer the posts like u……..lolzzzzzzz

    so u claim all those who did not die in lal mosque are hijras so now we are clear about y maulana burqa , the id of umme hassan and the others who came out of lal mosque is also clear……..maybe u consider urself a hijra too but the hijras would be angry at this comaprison as they hv more respect then these petty criminals…..

    u shd be clear that by making repititve post/allegations which are unproven and not supported by any logic whatsoever cannot win an arguement…..

    since u hv been reading old post and quoting haq u must be clear tht haq was also not convinced by ghazis criminal methodologies…however as it is a matter of ego with u u will not c the light.

    hvnt u bought the mirror yet??????????????
    or ur afraid of seeing ur face and recognising it for what is??????

    if u cannot prove or support ghazi tou iska ghussa logon ko qadiyani, kafir, pimp , lowlife, bastard, besharam, dheet keh k na utaro……moreover u are highly mistaken that i need multiple ids to prove my point…truth remains the truth even if 1 man speaks or 10 and the lies remain lies no matter how loud they are spoken……….

    plz buy a mirror before replying……
    drink a glass of pepsio/cold water…
    keep chill
    be cool

    laughs out loud

    if ur unable to respect ghazi then please try to respect hijras in ur upcoming posts……….

    by noman on Nov 26, 2008 at 4:23 am

  501. I am only say that propaganda destroys any nation from the side of its political, economical or even the side from religious. Let first i comment on my friend which starts this topics, says “Without doubt Right or Wrong Maulana Shazi Abdul Rashid was defending his place of worship and was fulfilling his religious duties in this process.”

    My question is are you know the secrets of their hearts?

    If he was want to implement the sharia law so whats the badness in this purpose?

    and like our government (which is the thrail of america)
    we also attack and abuse on it. Kill little hafiz children.
    Is this right?

    or

    is this right that america attacks on pakistan and we even obbey their orders?

    One thing is remember my brother that the sharia law will be implement on all the world on one day.
    Allah destroys those nations which don’t obey Allah orders and make new generations which pray Allah all commands.

    by Mohsin Shah on Nov 26, 2008 at 2:37 pm

  502. i saw in mirror while righting this post and believe me i saw “nooraniyat” on my face for the first time in my life.
    thanks for the advice.you made my day

    by the way @haq and @dark cloud kicked your butt very hard (i must say if some one did that to me i would be long gone)
    the problem is your “MUNAFIQANA BUTT” is so “DHEET” that kicking will not work
    one have to take more aggressive steps.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 26, 2008 at 2:40 pm

  503. i saw in mirror while wrighting this post and believe me i saw “nooraniyat” on my face for the first time in my life.
    thanks for the advice.you made my day

    by the way @haq and @dark cloud kicked your butt very hard (i must say if some one did that to me i would be long gone)
    the problem is your “MUNAFIQANA BUTT” is so “DHEET” that kicking will not work
    one have to take more aggressive steps.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 26, 2008 at 2:40 pm

  504. Ghazi is hero of islam.
    Ghazi is Shaheed of Islam.

    by Arif on Nov 26, 2008 at 9:34 pm

  505. jawaad

    how funny , arrogant , proud and vain…its not nooraniyat what u saw…its ur vanity which made u see what u saw…..coz how can abusive language and slander etc can bring nooraniyat to one;s face.

    hehehe

    dark cloud…..ur claim that they kicked me out etc etc is not based on fact…dark cloud himself quoted a hadith which ghazi proved ggazi wrong and later he left coz of that…..

    haq…..yes he left after admitting in several posts that ghazis actions were wrong

    as far as ur own insanity is concerned it is evident that u cannot support ghazi or his actions therefore u indulge in abusive language…..maybe u consider the use of such language as shariat in the same manner as u consider ghazis criminal acts as sharaee…….

    if ghazis actions can only be proven correct by criticizing musharraf nawaz and zardari then everybody in this world is correct…shariat cannot be implemented by ghair sharaee actions….
    munafiqana butt…….maybe these words are the essence of sharia tht u support……….lolzzzzz

    i will not say tht u support and his actions coz thts not ur aim and purpose…u only come here for galam galoch etc……

    praise ghazi for his demands
    and punish him for his deeds/actions

    laughs out loud

    by noman on Nov 27, 2008 at 4:27 am

  506. @noman!
    i think shaheed ghazee abdul rasheed did some personal damage to you.
    otherwise no one can sit on internet and keep spewing the poison for more than 1 year with out single day off.
    i will not be surprised if some one tell me that you are a son of aunty shameem and becuse of the actions of ghazee abdul rasheed your bread and butter was badly kicked.
    if it is a case then my symathies are with you.
    you see ALLAH(swt) created the hawk but He also created
    carrion eating vulture.
    HE created a lion and also created the shit eatiing swine.
    and created human being and gave him the choice to be whatever he want to be.
    obviously you chose munfiqat,hogwash and chikenfeed for smearing the high level shohada to earn some bread and butter.so sad….

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 27, 2008 at 11:12 am

  507. these are ur agressive steps tht is
    more abuses
    i hv already stated tht this is all what ur able to do..ghazi rasheed caused personel damage to the families of the martyred soldiers …he also caused major damage to pakistan;s image as a sensible muslim nation…..he tried tto malign the name of islam by his so called sharaee crimes.
    if this is personel damage then i hv been personally agreived by his actions….
    u can keep on calling watever u want to im not bothered by cheepstakes like u…….
    u hv still not put up any defence supporting ghazis actions as per sharia……
    u hv also not clarified ur sharaee stand against hijras ……
    ur posts are very predictable….u dont surprise me at all as after a long thought process of an entire day ur only able to come up with new abuses….
    i will never answer u back in the form of abuses as tht is below my dignity and code of ethics . it is also forbidden as per shariah….
    even the prophet (p.b.u.h) never answered back when ppl used to call him bad names…..

    by noman on Nov 27, 2008 at 1:26 pm

  508. I think so reputed islamic scholars should decide if ghazi Shaheed was right OR wrong, secondly Court should decide.

    In the above case both, scholars and court has given verdict in favour of Ghazi.

    General Musharraf and its agent Noman and Zaid Zaman don’t have authority to speak.

    by Arif on Nov 27, 2008 at 1:56 pm

  509. @Noman!
    you do not abuse……
    but you are being indulged in one extremly loathful act since more than 1 year with out a day off.far more nauseous than abusing……….no need to repeat.
    you can be “munafiq” with out this monkey business.
    i can assure you.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 27, 2008 at 2:39 pm

  510. @Arif!

    did you ever see the walking talking "MUNAFIQ" depicted by Quran and Ahadeeth e Nabwi?…..no!

    read few posts of @noman,@nauman@ayesha@R.A.J.A(on snake in differend id's)

    it's a life time opportunity to see the walking talking "munafiq" depicted by Quran and Ahadeeth.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 27, 2008 at 7:29 pm

  511. arif

    in ur last post u called musharraf harami and now ur calling me an agent…….wow…u maintain tht i dont hv any authority to speak …yup only u hv it….and which court has given a verdict in favour of ghazi being rite……if so y maulana burqa has still not been released????????? u did not answer tht who is ghazi then to decide tht its a brothel / prostitute?????????? y not court?

    hope u will answer next time

    jawad

    u dont surprise me at all…ur main purpose at this blog is only to abuse which u consider as per ur shariat….nauman or noman are always known as nauman or noman just like u spell colour or color…….
    ( app kahain tou haqeeqat, hum kahain tou munafiq)
    if ghazi cannot be defended by any of u tht does not mean tht others are indulging in loathful bizz……..

    ur true channel i.e geo has brought back shahid masood after speaking so much against him……esp uir hamid mir in nks…………

    who is hypocrite???????

    praise ghazi for his demands( if correct)

    punish him for his actions

    so simple……….laughs out loud

    by noman on Nov 28, 2008 at 4:24 am

  512. @ Noman

    When you speak for Musharraf and defend his illegal action against LAL masjid. That means you are agent of Musharraf.
    Chaudry Iftikhar the rightful cheif Justice gave a clear verdict to again rebuild Jamia Hafsa and re-open Lal Masjid but your Master Musharraf defied the order. All the Islamic Scholars were against Musharraf (the Puppet of USA) actions.
    You can ask any islamic scholars that who was right.

    In my opinion too Ghazi was true and Musharraf was illegal.

    Allah Talah will punish Musharraf and its agent in this world and in the next world for murdereing several hundered innocent students and people of LAl Masjid.

    by Arif on Nov 28, 2008 at 8:39 am

  513. @arif!
    right you are. musharraf has gone but he left behind his legacy and hiers. the “MUNAFIQEEN” with in pakistan.
    wandering around gaurding the patrimony left by pervez musharrf through lies,tricks and deception.@noman goes few steps further indulging himself in derogation,lies and loathful laughing and dancing over dead bodies of high level shohada.i never saw some one so mean,so sick and so nauseous.a typical walking talking “munafiq”

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 28, 2008 at 11:18 am

  514. arif

    i hv never defended musharraf but i am against anybody being called harami or any other abuse but for u tht is sharaee….lal masjid is open…its a riteful place of worship as it is built on legal land …the orders regarding jamia hafza only pretain to the legal alloted land by cda…otherwise they are supposed to construct the madrissa under wafaq ul madaris ,elsewhere…….i have heard maulana israr and numerous others scholars who despite demanding the implementation of shariah state that the law shd not be taken into ones own hands….nobody supports ghazis actions including u…….as far as iftikhar ch being cj or not is not the discussion in this blog……….
    i do not speak for musharraf…i only feel for the ppl who died coz of ghazi;s stupid criminal behaviour…….if he was so correct in all his actions then why umme hassan and others not in custody not following the same path now……..y all of them ran away frm tht so called jihad…….
    u prove ghazis actions prom Quran and sunnah thts y i say praise him for his demands and punish burqa bros for their deeds…
    _______________________

    jawad u can only indulge in filthy abuses…please go back to ur qadiyani temple as tht is ur fav place

    laughs out loud

    by noman on Nov 28, 2008 at 1:25 pm

  515. arif

    “i hv never defended musharraf but i am against anybody
    being called harami or any other abuse but for u tht is
    sharaee….

    “MMMUNNNNNAAAAAAAAAFFFFFIQQQQQQQQQ”

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 28, 2008 at 1:41 pm

  516. You are a “munafiq” I have no doubt in my mind. It is crystal clear to me.
    Calling someone a munafiq is a very serious allegation, I think more serious than calling as “kafir”.
    Any one who fears ALLAH (swt) should be very care full in these things because otherwise he will be guilty of slandering and will be accountable in judgment day.
    I studied your most of posts, observed your behavior and lastly done analysis in the light of Quran and ahadeeth. My conclusion is that you are a “munafiq” the “munafiq” as per used in Quran and ahadeeth not as a slang word we use in our daily lives.
    I have a strong reason to say this and your posts are evidence that you are a munafiq according to Quran and ahadeeth.
    I have been expressed my contentions in the form of doubts so many times and now I present you my abriviato placiturn once again.
    First thing wile reading your post one thing strikes any one, the repeatedly use of religious terminologies like “Quran and sunnah” “shariyah” “iman” and incongruous references from Quran with deliberate distortion from original meaning. Which is not some thing which can be easily tampered as there is extremely hard and restless work behind the transfer of commentary and paraphrase from Rasool ullah(saaw) to succeeding generations without slightest possibility of misinterpretation.
    As Allah (swt) says in Quran;
    “Behold, it is We Ourselves who have bestowed from on high, step by step, this reminder? And, behold, it is We who shall truly guard it [from all corruption].
    (surah al-hijr / 09)
    That is why you munafiqeen must understand that you can not make fool by chanting “Quran and sunnah” or by misinterpretation.
    In the following I will prove (inshaALLAH) that what make you munafiq

    1) Your attitude towards masajid and madrisa which lacks the profound attachment and care which every Muslim have. In one Hadeeth Rasoolullah S has said: “The most beloved places to Allah are the masajid.”
    (Muslim)
    The Prophet S has stated in one Hadeeth that the condition of a Believer outside the masjid is that of a fish out of water. A fish obviously has no desire to be out of water and if it is taken out, will long to return, and will remain restless for as long as it is out of water. In the same Hadeeth, the sign of a munafiq (hypocrite) has been described as a bird in a cage, longing to be released there from as soon as possible.
    Rasoolullah S has said:
    “There are seven (types of persons) whom Allah will give protection with His Shade on the Day when there will be no shade except His Shade :…(one of them is) a person whose heart is attached to the masjid…”
    (Bukhari, Muslim)
    I did not see any kind of sanctity for masajid in your posts. In spite of saving masajid and madrisa which are claimed to be built illegally by most corrupt CDA, pervez musharraf and his security goons (including 100 year old masjid) later on was proved to be a great source of abashment court as court gave the verdict to rebuild the mosque, you gave the reference of masjid e zarrar which was built by your spiritual ancestors with the intention of spreading fitna. While these masajid is built by true muslims with the intention of saying prayers. You sacrilegiously and criminally mixed two events which do not have slightest resemblance. As mentioned in Quran clearly:

    “AND [there are hypocrites] who have established a [separate] house of worship in order to create mischief, and to promote apostasy and disunity among the believers, and to provide an outpost for all who from the outset have been warring against God and His Apostle. And they will surely swear [to you, O believers], “We had but the best of intentions!” -the while God [Himself] bears witness that they are lying
    (surah al tauba-107)

    By the way no masjid and madrisa in Islamabad was built on land peculated from a widow, orphan or any other citizen of Islamabad.
    Even though if I agree on the notion that the masajid and madrisa were built on peculated land of CDA your behavior is typical of a “munafiq” persistently and over vehemently insist on demolishing proves that you are a typical munafiq. In spite of demanding CDA to withdraw from ownership of a land you insisted on demolishing which is not a behavior of Muslim.

    2) Profound attachment and care for brothels and prostitutes.
    You don’t want to consider aunty sahmeem a pimp and she is running a brothel. It is a grave slander for you, while whole Islamabad knows about this brothel.
    You are mad about Chinese massage parlor incident.
    You were deeply shocked when I called neelofar bakhtiyar a “lowlife”.
    In your words:
    “Neelofar bhakitiar was hugged by a gora …does tht make the woman a non
    muslim or a lowlife as u say???????
    Indicates that you do not know about the pudency which every muslim by birth have.
    After so many complains when aunty shameem neither closed the brothel nor shifted to specific places for brothels and prostitutes ,students of jamia hafsa took an action and force these prostitute to repent. That incident made you extremely mad and you started cheap and disgusting lambastes against these rasikh ul aqeeda mulims.
    In the defense of brothels you again used your “munafiqana” trick and searched aayat which can be used against the act of jamia hafsa and then you find aayat of sura al noor. Which are specifically and exclusively about chaste women. But your munafiq nature never able to abstained from playing with the meaning of the words of Quran
    You implied the condition of 4 witnesses on the brothels. Your approach, favorites and preferences clearly indicate about your deeply rooted “infaq” or munafiqat
    While Islam insists on chastity and cleanliness of body and soul. Islam restricts its followers from evil deeds. ALLAH (swt) says in Quran:
    “Verily, as for those who like [to hear] foul slander spread against [any of]
    those who have attained to faith grievous suffering awaits them in this world
    and in the life to come: for God knows [the full truth], whereas you know [it]
    not.
    (surah al noor-14)

    Another place Allah (swt) says:
    “And bids you only to do evil, and to commit deeds of abomination, and to
    Attribute unto God something of which you have no knowledge.
    (surah baqarah -169)

    and bids you only to do evil, and to commit deeds of abomination, and to attribute unto God something of which you have no knowledge.
    In another place Allah(swt) says in Quran
    Say: “Verily, my Sustainer has forbidden only shameful deeds, be they open or secret, and [every kind of] sinning, and unjustified envy, and the ascribing of divinity to aught beside Him – since He has never bestowed any warrant therefore from on high and the attributing unto God of aught of which you have no knowledge.”
    (surah a’raf-33)

    While your actions your feelings and intentions can easily felt and seen through your persistent posts. Every muslim pious or sinner like me even can not think of defending the brothel in the neighborhood. Your continuous and relentless post with derogatory remarks who took action against these centers of evil. And desperate try to justify that action against “Quran and sunnah” is a proof of your munafiqat.
    Your sacrilegious approach to defend the obscenity clearly tells us that you do not have a fear of Allah(swt). Because you are a “MUNAFIQ”

    3) Countless, Persistent, disgusting and cheap lies with out any penitence about intentions of shohada e lal masjid and jamia hafsa about the numbers of shohada , ghazi rasheed ,hamid meer, gen jamshed kiyani and phosphorus bombs with highly offensive, derogatory and sardonic remarks against the high level souls of shohada e lal masjid and jamia hafsa. Indulgence in the action which is very close to an act of dancing and laughing over dead bodies. This clearly shows your deep rooted “NIFAQ” and hatred against rasikh ul aqeeda muslims.

    Allah (SWT) has described the Munaffiqoon in the Qur’an as follows (what means):
    “Among men are those who say: ‘We believe in Allah and the Last Day’, but they do not actually believe. They (think) that they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive their own souls. In their hearts is a disease so Allah has increased them in their disease and for them is a mighty punishment for the lies they used to tell.”
    (Al-Baqarah: 8-10)

    Anas (ra) reports that Rasool ul Allah (saaw) said:
    “Three (characteristics) if they are found (in an individual) then he is a Munafiq even if he (is
    seen) fasting and praying and says, ‘I am a Muslim.’
    If he speaks he lies, if he promises he breaks his promise and if he is entrusted he betrays the
    trust.”
    (Agreed Upon)

    (continued)

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 28, 2008 at 2:08 pm

  517. (continued)
    4) Challenge every one to prove the action of ghazi Abdul rasheed in the light of “Quran and sunnah” while his action is clearly justified by “Quran and ahadeeth”
    Before the presenting references from Quran about amr bilmaroof wa niha an il munkir. I would like to present a reference of Quran about the behavior of “munafiqeen” about that”
    Allah says in Quran:
    The hypocrites, both men and women, proceed one from another. They enjoin the wrong and forbid the right…”
    (Tauba, 9:67)
    Here is the answer of the challenge.
    “You are the best community that has been raised for mankind. You enjoin good and forbid evil and you believe in Allah.”
    (Aal-e-Imran, 3:110)
    . “The believers, men and women, are protectors of each other: they enjoin what is right and forbid what is evil.”
    (Tauba, 9:71)

    A very famous hadith declares it as an issue of faith.
    “Whoever amongst you sees an evil should change it with his hand. If he is unable to do that then with his tongue. If he is unable to do that, then with his heart, and that is the weakest level of Iman.”
    (Muslim)
    So if a person does not even feel bad about an evil, he has no faith whatsoever. Similarly we are encouraged to promote good
    “Let there arise out of you a group inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong. They are the ones to attain success.”
    (Aal-e-Imran, 3:104)

    These aayat e mubarika and hadeeth clearly justify the actions of ghazi abdul rasheed. These aayat are acceptable for muslims but as I don’t see fear of Allah(swt) in your attitude these will not acceptable for you.
    5) celebration on massacre and defeat of helpless rasikh ul aqeeda muslim.
    As I mentioned earlier that every Muslim Pakistani grieved the massacre of helpless rasikh ul aqeeda muslims.even liberals who believed that religion is a private matter. And disagree with ghazee abdul rasheed on imposing shariat. Because of inherent affiliation between muslims.as rasool ullah said:
    Ummat is like a body when one part hurts the other part feel pain.
    Only a “munafiq” or kafir can be happy on this tragedy. You go many steps further and started laughing while mentioning about those high level shohada.LOLZZZzzzzzzhahhahahah……..heheheheheehehehe and so on.it clearly indicated that you have no fear of Allah(swt) and defeat and death is highly welcoming for you. You celebrated at triumph. And revealed your self a real”munafiq”

    The aim of this post is not to blame some one but to defend the servants of Allah(swt) who love Allah(swt ) and his order, fought promotion of virtue and prevention of vice, have no reluctance to sacrifice even their lives.
    The purpose of this post is to defend the honor and respect of high level and exalted shohada and to reiterate my determination that I will inshaAllah always be there where I found a “munafiq” and to protect innocent and naive muslims against the pretence propagated by munafiqeen. Any muslim who read this post would be aware of munafiqeen chanting “Quran and sunnah”.when ever I remind this aaya of holy quran;
    “Verily, as for those who like [to hear] foul slander spread against [any of]
    those who have attained to faith grievous suffering awaits them in this world
    and in the life to come: for God knows [the full truth], whereas you know [it]
    not.
    (surah al noor-14)
    I feel pity for you.
    May ALLAH save us all from the fire who’s fuel will be the humans.
    May ALLAH save all from the pretense of modern age?
    May ALLAH save us from the pretence of exterior as well interior?

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 28, 2008 at 2:08 pm

  518. hahaha ( if u consider urself a dead body then surely im laughing over u)

    repitition
    repitition
    repitition

    i knew tht u can only abuse/slander/lie….u hv added nothing new and these are the same allegations which i hv alreadyu answered rather i hv answered ur each and every silly criticism but if ur needle is stuck to one point i cant do anything abt it.
    i am really not bothered by ur beliefs coz jihalat persists till the time one opens ones minds to the truth….
    its really funny to read some one defending shariat who is the biggest abuser on this blog….ur logic supporting abusive language is just ur opinion as ur every other belief..it is not based on Quran and sunnat….

    mburqa brothers are punishable in the light of all the Ayas/ahadith u mentioned……

    please tell me what u call a person visiting a qadiyani temple????????

    laughs out loud (u have not answered maulana burqa , umme hassan and ur hijra issue)

    by noman on Nov 29, 2008 at 4:23 am

  519. “hahahahah.lolzzzzzzhehehhehehehe”
    REPITITION?…..ofcourse
    Because we are dealing with same old “munafiq” who has been seated on the same forum since one year, with same nauseous intentions and with same old monkey business.

    “please tell me what u call a person visiting a qadiyani
    temple????????
    munafiq ne jab ghazee abdul rasheed aur shahada e lal masjid o jamia hafsa ko naheen bakhsha to mujhey kia chorhay ga. by the way i went to qadiyani mosque because my one of my class fellow in 3rd year mbbs(whom i didn’t know that he was a qadiyani) asked me to go for prayers.
    you are such a hopeless monkey shit.
    by the way if you want to know my ideas about qadiyaniat, you can visit following forum of teeth maestro:
    http://www.teeth.com.pk/blog/2008/09/11/aalim-online-inciting-murder-against-ahmedis
    i was there with the ID of dr_jawwad71.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 29, 2008 at 11:50 am

  520. Hahahahahahahaha
    Lolzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Khekhekhekhekhe
    Hehehehehehehehe

    (After a month) u realized that u had gone to qadiyani mosque and that too with ur class fellow who was a qadiyani and u dint know abt him
    hehehehe
    but u claim to know every thing
    u hv never seen aunty shamim and without witnesses u know she runs a brothel
    u were sure that im qadiani
    u are well aware of the neeyats of ghazi brothers
    but lolzzzzzzzzzzz
    u did not know abt ur friend tht who he was
    hahahaha…….u really make me laugh

    monkey shit…………. Ghazi sahib ki sharee recognized gali hai kia??????

    Laughs out loud

    Im on this forum since 1 yr…. then???????? Im here on this blog as my questions are still unanswered……….
    Yes my intentions are really noble
    Im here to call ppl munafiq , qadiyani, kafir, agent , harami, pimp, lowlife, bastard just coz they do not support ghazi rasheed

    My objections on ghazis actions are still there…as u don’t hv answers u come up with abusive language and slander/lies….i challenge u again to counter the points raised in my post of nov 10, nov 18….but maybe that’s asking too much because u have shown ur entire upbringing, background and education by the choice of language in ur nonsensical posts…

    You are the one who is interested in qadiyanis thts u visited the temple…maybe u were seeking support for burq bros coz only non muslims benefited frm the lal mosque fiasco…no true muslim can support ghazis criminal acts as I hv seen no ayat in Quran supporting abduction, theft, burning, muredering muslims, slandering. Islam puts an emphasis on taqwa …taqwa is the basic principle necessary for guidance and all other acts……..we are commanded by Allah to exercise sabar in all our problems..fisad has not been encouraged…..however as u don’t have answers neither u want to seek guidance from the Quran u will keep on calling me bad names…I m not bothered as for me allahs word is supreme and I cannot create new Gods / biddats in the shape of burqa brothers as they are ordinary mortals……u want me to respect and recognize ppl who ran away from their own call for jihad …even if I consider their point then all those who survived including maulana burqa and his wife are your criminals…you shd be speaking against them as they surrendered and ran away …even the ghazi bravo was asking for safe passage…..wow….what hypocrisy.

    U may keep on praising such petty criminals but infact their cause has nothing to do with islam or shariah coz their actions speak otherwise…..

    I fail to understand your inability to answer my posts…why u want to preech qadiyaniat? What benefit would anybody gain from learning abt tht religion but uvisit their temples and also indulge in support of the unislamic deeds of the burq bros .however u do it at your own will and wish

    U did not know abt ur fellow being a qadiyani despite 3 yrs of knowing him . u could not recognize him .
    Similarly maulana burqa did not know y and for what purpose he came out wearing burqa.
    Umme hassan also doesn’t know why she ran out….
    Nor do all the students who surrendered ….maybe for 5000 rs which they asking for as promised.
    All the hijras( sorry if I hurt the feelings of this community) outside lal mosque and on this blog who who did not join the so called jihad …
    All of them hv also failed to continue abductions from the various brothels in isb/rwp in the name of amar bil maroof, many cinemas are also waiting to be burnt by these jihadis

    ( tum kaho tou haqeeqat, hum kahein tou munafiq)

    laughs out loud , hahaha

    by noman on Nov 29, 2008 at 3:06 pm

  521. @LOLZ
    i know a very good psychiatrist who treat all kind of mental sickness. if you are interested i can give you his contact no>
    but please do see some psychiatrist.
    hahahahahhahahahhahahah
    hhehehehehhehehheheheh
    lolzzzzzzzzzzz are the initial signs of madness.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 29, 2008 at 3:32 pm

  522. strange tht u hvnt visited even once.maybe thtsy maulana burqa is admitted in pims tht is to be treated by a [psychiatrist hahahahahahahaha

    asusual again ran out of answers……..or hvnt come up with new abuses lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    sheeshon mai norrani chehra dekhna bhi pagalpan hi ki nishani hai ….furthermore defending wrong against right supporting lies against truth also shows your mental sickness.

    ur style of writing is very simple…….

    6 days munafiqat /qadiyanait plus abuses
    1 days quoting ayas that clearly throw light on ghazis criminal acts

    inshort 7 days of attempting to decieve urself and others….
    maybe ur still under the effects of visiting qadiyani temple or maybe u still go there to find answers coz where else would u be blessed with new ghazis sharaee recognised abuses…….( your vocabulary is really rich)

    ( tum kaho tou haqeeqat, hum kahein tou munafiq)

    hehehehehehehe
    lolzzzzzzzzz

    by noman on Nov 30, 2008 at 4:35 am

  523. @ LOLzzzzzz!
    the other treatment for the mental sickness like lolzz
    is “LOLOMYCINE” injection.i am sure there must be plenty
    of prevert residing in your native place.this treatment
    is obnoxious but it is an aggresive way of treatment for
    the mental sick and pervert like you.
    i hope your munafiqana butt will be just fine
    after “lolomycine” injection.
    have an injection and get rid of freeking
    munafiqana butt.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Nov 30, 2008 at 10:58 am

  524. this is the shariat which u want to be implemented??????
    Allah orders us in the Quran to refrain from the use of bad language but u esp dont seem to care abt Allah;s word…….its obvious as u visit qadiyani temples…….

    your helpness , sharmindigi of failing to support your arguement is evident……..

    i told u that u dont surprise me at all…..
    u disregard the word of Allah amnd dare to call other ppl munafiq ….how funny…..Allah has ordered us to observe taqwa .the choice of words by u does not fit any sharaee description and what to talk about taqwa…..but why would u care???????
    its evident that u do not respect Quran and sunnat otherwise you would know that the prophet;s (p.b.u.h) sunnat has the best guideline for us.

    u might belong to or support , qaum e loot .
    if these are your agressive sharaee steps to implement shariat , im not bothered at all ….
    u are p .hd in galam galoch thtsy u used the word dr…..
    i will not answer u in the same language if thats what you are trying for

    maybe you are trying to describe your own self and your nooraniyat in your posts…

    these are te result of frequent visits to qadiyani temples……

    who is a lowlife and hypocrite???????

    lolzzzzzzzz
    hehehehe
    hahahahaha

    by noman on Dec 1, 2008 at 4:24 am

  525. @LOLzzzzzz
    i really feel sorry for your mental condition.
    but dear!
    i can not give the due respect any pervert
    munafiq who do the mockery with high level shohada
    on barbaric messacre of helpless women and children.
    your mental condition need immidiate intervention no matter how bizzare the treatment (which i suggested),is much lesser than your mental sickness.
    for munafiqat only ALLAH(swt) can deal with it.we do not have a cure for that as it is “marz ul qalb”

    please do not hesitate to have prescribed treatment.it will be painfull initially but it has magical effect on the mental sickness.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 1, 2008 at 1:30 pm

  526. i really dont mind
    u cannot even give respect to the person you are supporting…..
    you cannot respect anyone
    im sure
    you cannot respect the orders of Allah i.e to refrain from slander/lies/dirty conversation and abuses.
    u dare to counter the points raised in my post of nov 10, nov 18….but maybe that’s asking too much because u have shown ur entire upbringing, background and education by the choice of language in ur nonsensical posts…

    your posts depict that ur still under qadiyanis spell……
    there is a phrase in urdu
    ( khisiani billi khamba nochay)
    when ppl run out of answers /logic they indulge in such kind of behavior……
    maybe ur inspired by qaum e loot so whatever u suggest , practice it yourself……maybe ghazi sahib k maslik mai jaiz ho thtsy ur suggesting ppl for such things.
    __________________

    the amazing truth about human tongue
    it takes 3 yrs to learn how to use it….
    but,
    its very hard to learn
    when not to use it…..
    _________________________

    by noman on Dec 1, 2008 at 11:50 pm

  527. WHERE ARE THE LOLZzzzzzzzzzzzz this time?
    hahahahahahhahahhahhahhaha
    hehehehehehehehehhehehheh
    hohohohohohohohohohohohoh

    don’t be mad noman.i didn’t mean to hurt your feelings.
    i thought you can laugh and dance over dead bodies.
    you can do mokeries over more than 2000 shohada.
    you can enthusiasticaly defend chakla and prostitute.
    you can defend the worst human being ever lived over
    pakistan soil.
    why you can’t have a LOLOMYCINE for your mental sickness??????????????????????????????????
    it will be much easier for you.
    right??????????????????????????????????

    “the amazing truth about human tongue…………….when
    not to use it”
    it is a slander and lie i never used my tongue against you.
    hahahahahahahahahh
    hehehehehehehehehh
    lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    i challange any one who can prove that abuse in writing is against “Quran and sunnah”…….familiar rant??

    strange time! the “ummati” of abdullah ibne ubbai is giving us the bhashan about “quran and sunnah”

    in last! did you heard?
    ” a LOLOMYCINE a day
    keeps mental sickness away
    LOLZzzzzzzzzzzzzz(tumhen apni man aunty shamim aur apney bap pervez musharraf ki qasam.
    hahahahahahahahah
    hehehehehehehehhe
    hohohohohohohohohoho

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 2, 2008 at 12:34 am

  528. i challange any one who can prove that abuse in writing is against “Quran and sunnah”…….familiar rant??

    have u never read the Quran
    have u never even once realized the greatness of our religion and the prophet(p.b.u.h)…how can u even suggest that the Quran and sunnah support abusive language in writing or verbal.
    i asked you to prove ghazis acts as per Quran…u failed as the holy Quran is against all such criminal activities.

    but for your convienience im giving u references….

    Regardless that u haveof ur abuses and your belief that to abuse ppl is sharaee…i am happy that u have finally asked me to refer to the Quran…
    I will refer you to surat hujrat ayat 11 .please read it and correct yourself.i will also refer you to the shan e nazool of this ayat ( sabit bin qais razi allah once made fun of another sahabi in the presence of prophet(p.b.u.h) .another riwayat states that this ayat pertains to bani tameem who used to make fun of various sahabis ).
    I refer you to surat inam ayat 108 in which allah specifically forbids to abuse even those idols which the kuffar worshipped .
    However as you are bent to prove that nawzubillah the Quran allows the abusive language and nowzubillah the sunnah also proves it , amazes me…I don’t know whether to laugh at this or pity you for your ignorance and such blatant misinterpretation of the Quran. Your suggestion regarding the injection also is against the Quranic teachings …I refer you to surat airaf ayat 80.however despite Allah;s guidance your choice to propagate such activities depicts your true beliefs /origin etc etc…..
    Im not mad at you, I have not made a mockery of anything ….i have given my arguments/questions against ghazi which u have not countered.however the mockery you are making of Allah;s ayas by supporting abusive language/homosexuality/slander/lies is horrifying .if a non muslim reads your posts to understand islam and muslims he would clearly be shown a negative picture.your acts though different are similar crimes as committed by ghazi.
    Do read some good books esp Quran .watch positive programmes like those on peace tv u will learn manners and decency ( if you are interested). Your mentality suggest that you rate ghazi and his crimes above Allah and his commandments , indicating biddats / qadiyani influence albeit with a different idol which in your case are the criminals who died in lal mosque…you are not willing to listen to Quran due to your bias .you have close your ears and eyes.nowhere I have supported anybody u say……I have only questioned ghazis crimes that too in the light of Quran but for you its difficult to open the Quran then read as u have limited mentality.
    If someone talks about Quran and sunnah u call it bashan…this is the amount of respect for Quran……considering your choice of words and obnoxious manner of addressing ppl its not difficult for anybody to recognize you for what u are…..i do not respect you but I will not indulge in abusive language as it ios forbidden.

    Khisyani billi khamba nochnay k sawa kuch nahi kar sakti………….

    Laughs out loud

    by noman on Dec 2, 2008 at 3:56 pm

  529. i am not a sick person to challange any one to prove my wrong doing according to quran and ahhadeeth.
    the challange was nothing but just a taunt as i saw many challanges in your posts.
    ABUSES
    what i do for my deep rooted hatred of extreme degrees for MUNAFIQEEN, SECULAR FASCISTS, MATERIALISTS AND ANY ONE WHO CELEBRATES THE DEFEAT OF MY FELLOW MUSLIM WHO IS FIGHTING FOR ISLAM AND SHARIYAH which made me say what i don’t say in my life.
    and i am not penitent about that.

    i love all the mujahid who are fighting for aala e kalma tullah. to my understanding the “mulhima” is about to occur as profecised by NABI e KAREEM(saaw)
    every shahdat of a rasikh ul aqeeda muslim is like a stab in my heart.
    consider this post as my last one.
    i don’t expect you to fight for islam or give the respect to shohada but as a human you refrain yourself from laughing and dancing over dead bodies of an other human being

    my prayers are the same

    May ALLAH save us all from the fire who’s fuel will be the humans.
    May ALLAH save all from the pretense of modern age?
    May ALLAH save us from the pretence of exterior as well interior?

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 2, 2008 at 6:09 pm

  530. Hahahahaha ( if u really consider urself dead then im laughing at u)
    U might have been taunting but against whom?????????? I atleast was not your target coz I have always maintained that u should support ghazis crimes as per Quran .the taunts if any were directed against the holy book by urself.this was the only challenge in my post…what was so difficult in answering decently????????????this must have been a challenge for you…thtsy your language/examples/choice of words/abuses/slanders/lies exposed your true personality…..you are sad over the defeat of an individual but you have no sadness over breaking Allah;s commandments, sirf naray bazi sai klam nahi chalta…….ghazi brothers did not repent neither do u…they committed crimes against islam and humanity…..u over indulging in sins by the choice of your words .
    Our love for allah and his prophet (p.b.u.h) should out way our love for any individual.
    The purpose of my post has always been that ghazi brothers were not fighting for islam or shariah.they were just using the name of islam for their own petty interests…rather then doin good deeds and changing the society by hard work i.e tableegh which was the prophets(p.b.u.h) way they indulged in fisad just to support illegal construction of jamia hifza they martyred numerous security ppl, u have never once expressed sadness over the loss of these innocent lives…by defending ghazi and criminals inside masjid you were infacting laughing and ridiculing these individuals…..i would call them better muslims then ghazi and thugs…you call ghazi brothers as rasikh ul aqeeda .how funny…you know their actions were not based on taqwa, neither they had anything to do with islam or sharia……..u proved my point by firstly accusing a lady u even havnt seen as a prostitute but when I highlighted this is bohtan u started abusing me by calling me different names ending with the abuse of a prostitute bastard son, absolutely in bad faith.your numerous other abuses including the propagation of homosexuality should also not make u repent as u must consider them Islamic and as per sharia.
    I oppose all those who try to use the name of islam to cover their sins as you also do the same…using dirty abusive language/slandering to defend islam………how funny.its very easy for you to call anybody who opposes you a munafiq thts how u ppl operate tht is bad mouthing your opponents.all thaikaidars of islam have no responsibility towards anyone…they can say or do anything they please……
    If your position had been based on truth u would have been able to answer /defend it but you know it very well to be false it in your heart thty u cannot even once dare to answer nov 10, nov 18 post of mine……….this was the only difficulty which made you indulge in bad behaviour………
    U want to distort the truth and call criminals shohada just coz all their crimes were in the name of islamwhich itself is the biggest crime they committed.it would have been better if u had used Quran and sunnah in an attempt to defend your arguments but you chose the more sharaee path ( according to ur mentality) i.e abuses and u still don’t repent………..
    Its ur last post………..similar to haq , dark cloud etc……nowu will claim tht im kicking myself out ……….hahaha…….these were ur special aggressive steps???????lolzzzzzzzzzzzz…..it was never about winning or losing but u made it point of ego…………I will still say that nobody has been able to defend ghazi …….u esp also failed…….if u consider it ur defeat , what can I say………….it would be better if u use this to obtain better guidance from the Quran……..

    Khisiyani billi jab khamba noch noch k thak jati hai tou khud hi tang aa k bhagti hai……….

    Your belief that by indulging in such kind of behavior ur fighting for islam is extremely funny………….

    Tata
    Byebye

    Lolz( ur brain is dead , so im laughing at u)

    by noman on Dec 3, 2008 at 4:53 am

  531. neither shaeed or halak but asshole islamist mass killer

    by yusef islam on Dec 8, 2008 at 4:18 am

  532. @noman!
    finally your brother joseph the cristian is arrived.
    20 LOLOMYCINEs for both of you.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 8, 2008 at 5:36 am

  533. ur willing to go against allah…but wont admit the truth….
    tum tou apni bat par qaim nahi reh saktay………
    this is your true personality!!!!!!!
    maybe ur equipped with new stock of abuses……….
    plz identify your religion……

    poora pakistan hai..he has used the same kind of words that u use….

    lekin

    ( hum kahain tou haqeeqat, aur log kahain tou bohtan)

    i do not abuse……….

    khisyani billi sharmingi k maray khamba nochti rahay tou uss sai woh saheeh nahi ho jati……

    i gave u a safe exit with full protocol but u want ppl to laugh at ur sick mentality then its solely ur choice…..

    lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    hahahahahaha

    by noman on Dec 8, 2008 at 2:56 pm

  534. @noman!
    don’t be short with me.
    it was just a congratulation.
    since one year you are doing this monkey business alone now you have a spiritual brother to carry on this work.
    i think one year was not lost you got some success.
    if this joseph is not your another id.
    marry christmas (as i can’t greet you on eid ul adha) and have a nice day.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 8, 2008 at 4:18 pm

  535. i will congratulate u on bakra eid..

    coz i stick to my position tht using abusive language/slander /lies will not prove ghazi correct…..

    but as u dont believe in Allah;s words and continue to indulge in abusive language thinking it to b sharaee ,i think there is no hope for you…..

    if ur theory abt poora pakistan supporting ghazi is being proven wrong i cant do anything abt it…….

    u may consider talking abt ahadith and Quran as monkey bizz nowzubillah ..but maybe the promos of ur injections are the only sharaee things in which u and ghazi believed….

    my stand remains

    dare to prove ghazi actions from Quran and sunnat

    lolzzzzzzzzzzz( mission impossible)

    by noman on Dec 8, 2008 at 8:03 pm

  536. this is what i keep calling obnoxious and loathsome monkey business.
    slanders and lies were not sufficient for you that is why now you started deception and forgery.
    well that is what a munafiqat is all about.
    first you tried to prove your monkey business in the light of Quran and sunnah and now you are applying my criticism against your obnoxious activities over Quran and Ahadeeth(maazALLAH SUMMA maazAllah)
    this is i call a display of sick and loathsome mentality
    that is why i suggested you a LOLOMYCINE

    a MUNAFIQ can only be treated by ALLAH(swt)in hereafter
    for ordinary muslim like me sure it is mission impossible.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 8, 2008 at 8:44 pm

  537. there is a difference between what your actions the shariat u want to support……plz understand that shariat does not require and will never be supported by galam galoch/slander/lies…………..

    i did not try to prove , i proved that ghazi was wrong according to Quran and sunnah…..and none on this has been able top prove otherwise……

    you are only sticking coz islam , Quran And Allah;s words have no importance for you……you can abuse and talk abt Allah in the same line…..you can suggest injections and talk abt shariah without shame and guilt…….

    u can call ppl kafir , qadiyani, lowlife etc etc butur own words speak a lot abt ur conviction, character, personality, upbringing and background……..

    u realized very well the impossibilty of your mission tht is to prove ghazi correct from quran/sunnah.
    you are the one conducting monkey bizz …it is you who is abusing…….
    you declared tht it was ur last post but as u cannot live without abusive u started posting again otherwise u hv not brought any fresh evidence in favour of your beloved chor uchakas…….

    yesterday i visited teeth maestros hamid mir blog………lolzzzzzz…..apkay poray pakistan ki theory wahan par bhi ghalat hi sabit hoti hai……..

    ru still visiting qadiyani temples????????

    i will never try to compete with u in abuses coz ur a doctorate in tht…………

    lolzzzzzz……keep on abusing as ur only gud in abusing/lying/slandering & then believing ur a true muslim……….

    shame on u

    wow!!!!!!!!!!lol

    by faisal on Dec 9, 2008 at 4:47 am

  538. @noman or nauman or ayesha or yousef islam or faisal!
    so many ID’s for one man? definitely a blunder this time
    you should be care ful in your monkey business.
    this is the difference between you and me i have only one ID
    while one ID is not sufficient for you to disprove my “POORA PAKISTAN THEORY” this is the time for LOLZ but i feel pity for you.
    I have absolutely no mission to prove the GREATNESS of ghazi abdul rasheed. it has already been proved as he layed his life for a great cause that is why i didn’t respond your filthy dergatory and sick remarks.
    you fail to realised that a smear campaign becomes a joke when a person gives his life to defend his cause.
    only a munafiq has that kind of sacriligious approach to use the words ALLAH(swt) to bolster his ridiculous and sick attacks on the most respected high level shohada.
    my prayers are the same WITH one addition
    “ya ALLAH mera khatima ghazee abdul rasheed ki tarah farma
    aur mere sath qayamat ke din ghazee abdul rasheed ki
    tarah ka muamla farma” AMEEEEEEEENNN
    aur tumhara khatima pervez musharraf , aunty shameem aur
    neelofar bakhtiyar ke saath farma
    this is the last thing a muslim can do when he faces a MUNAFIQ

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 9, 2008 at 6:42 am

  539. now who is faisal??????

    my id has been nauman/noman ,use brains….and i hvnt conceal;ed it…thats just ur imagination……..i dont post comment on any other blog……….and i think ur referring to faisal on hamid mir blog……wahan i dont hv to add anything…..my points have already been posted by various ppl but if ur happy that they all are my ids keep on beliving it………

    actually u have no id…ur very confused….its evident from your use of abusive language, so called sharaee injections sponsored byu qaume e loot and visits to qadiyani temples…..

    you basically feel pity for your helplessness…..and i will definitely laugh at you.hahaha

    sirf khwaish kiun
    jihad mai beth jatay…..
    ajj tumhara bhi blog hota….

    buzdil ya what u say hijra……

    you really dont have to prove that ghazi was a great theif…he also was a big killer , a great slanderer/lier etc etc etc……his greatness is evident from supporters like u who are great abusers/liers/slanderers & visiters to qadiani temples and followers of qaum e lout….

    your piety is evident from your fine language……you must be using similar language infront of ur own family…..

    if i remember correctly ur fav ghazi was begging for safe passage on all ur fav pakeeza channels including hamid bhai;s…….daily many dakus are killed in encounters …u must be considering all of them shohda…

    many jews die for their cause…many hindus die for their;s while killing muslims in kashmir and palestine…u must be their supporter too as they also die for their cause…..

    it is said …….awara kuttay bhonk rahay hon tou insaan ko yeh zaib nahi deta k unn k sath mil k bhonkna shru kar dai……..

    so i will not reply to your abuses as its similar to barking……..

    khisyani billi khamba noch noch k khud hio pagal ho ho k har blog par chakrati phirti hai ……

    billian bhi ajkal munafiq ho gaeen hain………wow

    lolzzzzzz

    luv and regards for …molvi jawad almashoor ghatia zuban walay

    by faisal on Dec 9, 2008 at 9:14 pm

  540. now who is faisal??????

    look at your previous post smart ass!

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 9, 2008 at 10:48 pm

  541. and look at the name of commentrator in last two of your comments.
    funny thing is u didn,t realize your name is still faisal on your comments.
    what a pity.
    lost in MUNAFIQAT???

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 9, 2008 at 10:58 pm

  542. hahaha

    you proved my point….
    i was trying to make use of your methods..
    remember,
    maulana aziz tht he has 50 suicide bombers inside ?
    remember ghazi rasheed sayin there are no children inside
    remember u yourself sayin ghazis methods were crossing limits.
    if u read my post carefully i indicated intentionally that i visited hamid mir blog….
    i took the id of last post which was fresh
    why??????
    just to lure into a trap…….
    if im not wrong
    maulana aziz was tryin to change his id/sex
    if im not wrong
    how u avoid that u urself admitted he crossed limits
    if im not wrong
    how u kept on justfying the use of abusive language

    in short
    i was denying my own actions in the similar manner of your and ghazi……..

    and u think that it was blunder/mistake

    lolzzzzzzzzzz

    however the limits of my culpability are very restricted and innocent….
    even after proving my point i will not indulge in injection promotion or galam galoch……….

    u just questioned urself…and this is what u do…..

    for a noble cause……

    pata nahi app abhi bhi sheesha dekhnay mai kamyab huway hain ya nahi……….

    this post is again frm id faisal dedicated to molvi jawad almashor teekon wali sarkar……

    khud app apnay dam mai siyad a gia…..
    ( hum kahain tou haqeeqat, tum kaho to munafiq)

    kamaz kam iss post ka jawab de dena…. k whatever i have pointed was not done by you ppl

    lolzzzzzzz
    hehehehe( laughing @ ur dead brain)

    by faisal on Dec 10, 2008 at 4:54 am

  543. change the ID asshole!
    it’s still faisal.
    bohat hi barha besharam hey tu.
    pata naheen

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 10, 2008 at 6:24 am

  544. change the ID asshole!
    it’s still faisal.
    bohat hi barha besharam hey tu.
    pata naheen kitni tawaifen mareen hongee jab tu paida huwa

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 10, 2008 at 6:25 am

  545. change the ID asshole!
    it’s still faisal.
    bohat hi barha besharam hey tu.
    pata

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 10, 2008 at 6:25 am

  546. change the ID asshole!
    it’s still faisal.
    bohat hi barha besharam hey tu.
    pata naheen kitni tawaifen mareen

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 10, 2008 at 6:26 am

  547. change the ID asshole!
    it’s still faisal.
    bohat hi barha besharam hey tu.
    pata naheen kitni

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 10, 2008 at 6:26 am

  548. change the ID asshole!
    it’s still faisal.
    bohat hi barha besharam hey tu.
    pata naheen kitni tawaifen mareen hongee

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 10, 2008 at 6:27 am

  549. change the ID asshole!
    it’s still faisal.
    bohat hi barha besharam hey tu.
    pata naheen kitni tawaifen mareen hongee jab tu paida

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 10, 2008 at 6:27 am

  550. change the ID asshole!

    it's still faisal.

    bohat hi barha besharam hey tu.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 10, 2008 at 11:23 am

  551. Ch ch ch ch
    Ufffffffffffffffffff
    Itna ghussa
    Itni repetition
    Your norani shesha must have broken……
    I do everything openly….
    Its ppl like you who hide behind a so called islami id…..
    You failed again to answer my last post……
    Parhna nahi atta kia???????/
    Ya dogar ki beti ki tarh number lagwa kar hi mbbs mai ayay thay?/
    Who bhi pata nahi….
    Apni post mai 8 dafa apni family history batai last line????????/
    Lolzzzzzzzzz
    Hehehehehehehe

    Besharmi ki intha tou insane ki galion aur choice of words sai hi evident hoti hai…….
    Nowzubillah yehi shariat apki khwaish hai……….

    Anyways……..

    Ur finally caught in my trap and still abusing……how sharaee…….
    What spelling of noman would u prefer in my next post
    Nauman…noman….. or faisal is alrite with you????????

    This post is again dedicated to
    Molvi jawad ghatia zuban walay…….

    ( hum kahain tou haqeeqat, tum kaho tou munafiq)

    lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    by noman vs faisal on Dec 10, 2008 at 2:13 pm

  552. it’s not an anger asshole!
    it was a technical fault.
    you proved your self not only munafiq but also an idiot asshole.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 10, 2008 at 8:34 pm

  553. how come??????????
    by making u a fool??????????
    by trapping u in your own trap?????/
    u accused me of being yousaf islam……
    i thought that if u accuse me of multiple ids or fakes ids
    then u must say the same abt maulana burqa….

    but ur duplicity is proven….

    thtsy like a khisyani billi ur abuses have become more cheep…….

    u disreagard Quran and its teachings
    and u call others munafiq

    iss sai bari munafiqat aur kia ho gi…..
    u only discuss prostitutes etc and then talk abt islam……
    look at your language and then see who is the munafiq

    dont crap about poora pakistan theory and respecting those criminals of lal mosque by calling them shohda……

    yes im still laughing…….
    as u have been fully exposed…..

    qaul o fail mai tizad…….

    u wanted to acheive shihadat then wats stopping u……

    maybe ur own munafiqat
    waisay teekon wala kam chor dia ya abhi tak Quem lout ko follow kar rahay ho…….

    Allah rasool ko tou tum nahi mantay……
    ur religion is galam galoch…….

    i will be waiting for ur next cheep ghatia abusive post…..

    regards to dactar jawad …… dispeser ….qaum e lout

    shame on you!!!!!!!!!

    by noman on Dec 10, 2008 at 10:11 pm

  554. yesterday on geo fir a rasikh ul aqeeda madrissa trained imam masjid in mangla was shown…the pious imam had murdered a lady with whom he had illicit relations and a cute 4 yr old child…..he burried them in the mosque…later took out the bodies and cut them in pieces…throwing the remains in mangla dam & burrying the heads at another location……….

    as its evident by the raskih ul aqeeda actions of ghazi and his followers it is clear tht lal mosque was also home to such criminal lowlives……

    the duplicity of maulana brothers and their followers is again crystal by their complete forgetfullness about their demand for shariah……..now they only ask for reconstruction of jamia hifza so tht they can again tap the huge zakat collections from all over pakistan for their criminal activities……

    on the other hand there are some true believers lke dr zakir naik , maulana israr ahmad and ahmad deedat etc who are busy spreading the word of allah and converting thousand of non muslims to islam all over the world…these people in their seminars are subjected to harsh statements and rebukes by non muslims…but praise of allah be on them that they remain calm and patient and answer in the light of Quran ……Allah is with those who are sabareens…….thtsy these people are not only respected but are successful in spreading islam……

    however dr jawaad and other blind followers of the criminal ghazi only believein abuses and offensive behavior…they have the dhitai and besharmi of calling their actions and the crimes of ghazi and his brother islamic…….

    actions of musharraf , zardari, nawaz and other politicians are highly questionable but their wrongs cannot be used as a justification for what ghazi did…..he and his brother should be severely punished for their crimes…even if one of them is dead a court should establish their guilt….

    the true heroes in the entire episode are the personel and familes of the security forces who suffered during the operation…they died to save us from the wrath of these criminals……..may Allah grant them solace & numerous bounties in this world and the hereafter…..

    the munafiqat , double standards of ghazi and his supporters is evident from their deeds and words…the post of most ghazi supporters is only based on rubbish…they consider the use of foul language as islamic……its a pity that they cannot justify their actions from Quran and sunnat ………

    shame on ghazi brothers and their supporters….

    by noman on Dec 11, 2008 at 5:38 am

  555. Halak !

    by Gumnam on Dec 15, 2008 at 10:52 pm

  556. definitely a SHAHEED!
    may ALLAH shower him with His divine blessings

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 16, 2008 at 12:17 pm

  557. hahaha

    dactar jawad almashoor tekon wali sarkar ki wapsi…..
    your praise of a criminal including your post full of abuses on this blog are clerar indication of the type of people supporting ghazi……
    i have proven your double standards and hypocracy …however u remain just to indulge in more lies and falsehoods thtsy why i say hahahahahahahaha………

    if ghazi is shaheed then all decoits killed in encounters shd also be called shaheed………

    by noman on Dec 17, 2008 at 4:09 am

  558. @NOMAN
    chal jhoota, munafiq kaheen ka

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 17, 2008 at 11:02 am

  559. y???//
    coz of trapping you in ur own words
    lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    khisyani billi khamba noch noch k chakra gaee bichari…..

    if ur unable to defend ur beloved culprit its an eye opener for you
    but if u feel happy by abusing others ……never mind….
    keep enjoyin!!!!!!!!!!

    hehehehehehe

    by noman on Dec 17, 2008 at 1:31 pm

  560. idiot…..

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Dec 17, 2008 at 2:27 pm

  561. who?????????????
    ghazi

    so u finally agree…..
    the debate was of…..ghazi being shaheed or halak
    but
    tum nai tou galion mai apnay ghazi ko bhi nahi baksha…….
    lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    dactar jawad!!!!!!!!!!

    apki nooraniyat /helplessness jhalak jhalak rahi hai………….

    apko tou ghazi ki tareefon mai kitab likhni chahye
    as ur enriched with logic/ galian to support him

    khisyani billi khamba nochay….
    dactar jawad almashoor teekon wali sarkar……

    hehehehe

    by noman on Dec 18, 2008 at 4:19 am

  562. ya sahib hallak howa han or jin ko inhon na istimal kiya wo sab shaheed han.
    agar koi apna ap ko bohat bara samajhta ha to mari baton ka jawab da.
    rasheed sab na sab masoom bachon or bacheyon ko andar yargmal banaya howa tha. or apna bhai in ki bivi bachon ko or apni bivi ko keyon bahir bhaja.
    is bat ka jawab ghor sa socho or pura deen parh ka dakh ko kahin be is ki misal nahi mila ge. kiya bura tha ka apna pura khandan safe kar liya or dusron ka masoom jo wahan tha un ko bahir na aana deya
    lanat ha rashid per or is ka khandan walon per

    Allah tala na insan ko akal de ha us ko istimal karo jahan tak kar sakta ho Quran ma ya parh lo
    Nabi Akhir Zaman PBUH ka dor ma jitna be ghazwat howa howa han Ap PBUH na un sab ma hisa liya howa ha
    Jahan jan bachana ka hukam howa wahan jan be bachai gai apni or apna satheyon ki.

    seedi se bat ha insan ki akal ki
    koi be banda kisi be country ma rah ka 1000 banda ikatha kar ka us country ki govt. ka sath mukabila nahikar sakta.

    jihad female per faraz nahi ha or rasheed sahib na female ki jaanin zaya karwa din.

    agar ya jihad karna nikla tha to apna khandan keyon safe karwaya

    kiya wo females kisi ki oladin nahi thin.

    Allah rashid ko wasil jahanum kara Ameen.

    or un ko be akal ki hadayat da jo is ko shaheed kahta han

    by Conan on Jan 12, 2009 at 8:39 pm

  563. iss blog par ghazi k tamam supporters aql e qul ki hasiat rakhtay hain….they believe themselves to be superior to the Quran therefore they cannot see logic nor do they have any sense common or otherwise….dactar jawaad , ghazis gretest supporter is a case in point…. ghazis actions are not defendable ….he has recived part punishment in this world and would get the vremaining inshallah in the here after…..however his brother and umme hassan are still alive …they shd also be publicly hung …..all those who malign islam and cause fisad shd be punished….atleast i cannot ask for their forgiveness……..shame on them and their supporters!!!!!!!!

    by noman on Jan 19, 2009 at 2:57 pm

  564. “laanat ullah he aalal kazibeen wal munafiqeen wal aada e
    deen.

    ALLAH(SWT) Uske farsihton aur tamam makhlooqat ki laanat har jhootey,munafiq aur deen ke dushman par.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Jan 19, 2009 at 3:14 pm

  565. thanks to Allah tht ur finally seeing the truth and condemning both maulana bros and ofcourse all their supporters………

    dactar dactar i hope tht u hv left the bad practice of indulging in abuses and filthy language……..u must hv also realized after reading the Quran tht ur so called teekas common in ur posts are haram…….

    this one esp for u ………hahaha
    hehehe
    khekhekhe
    lolzzzzzzzzzz

    by noman on Jan 19, 2009 at 9:31 pm

  566. koi be banda jo ya kahta ha ka ghazi shaheed ha to wo QURAN OR HADEES sa asi koi be bat sabit kar da jo ghazi na ki.
    pakistan is a muslim country
    1- PAKISTAN MA IS BAT KA KATAAN IJAZAT NAHI KA JAHAN QURAN KI TALEEM DE JA RAHI HA WAHAN ASLIHA RAKHA JAI

    2- AGAR KOI PAKISTAN MA RAH KA PAKISTAN KI GOVT KA KHILAF UTH KHARA HO OR GOVT KA SATH JANG KARA KIYA AP US KO JIHAD KAHIN GA

    3- KISI BE HADEES SA YA SABIT KAR DO KA GHAZI NA MASOOM JANIN GANWA DIN APNA KISI MAQSAD KA LIYA OR APNI PURI FAMILY KO BAHIR SAFE KAR DEYA

    AGAR UN KO SAFE KARNA THA TO KIYA JO US TIME US KA SATH KITNI MASOOM BAHNIN, BATEYAN OR BHAI THA KIYA WO UN KO SAFE NAHI KAR SAKTA THA,

    4- KISI BE HADEES SA YA SABIT KAR DO KA GHAZI NA JIS KO IS KA SUPPORTER YA KAHTA HAN KA JIHAD THA CHALO THEEK HA HO GA UN KA LIYA, SIRAF YA BATA DIN KA ONTIME PER JAB US KO PATA CHAL GEYA THA TO US NA GOVT SA RASITA KEYON MANGA

    GHAZI NA UN MASOOM BACHON KO YARGAMAL BANAYA TAKA SHAHID US KO RASTA MIL JAI OR US KI JAN BACH JAI

    PAKISTAN MA HER DEENI MADARIS PER SAB KI NAZAR HOTI HA JO SIRF OR SIRF DEEN KI TALEEM DATA HAN WO ABI BE KAM KAR RAHA HAN WO DEEN KI TALEEM DA RAHA HAN UN KO KOI BE KUCH NAHI KAHTA

    JO DEEN KI AAR MA TAKHREEB KAR HAN UN KO SAKHAT SA SAKHAT SAZA MILNI CHAHEYA

    MUSLMANON KA NAME BANDAM KAR KA RAKH DEYA HA UN LOGON NA

    by conan on Jan 19, 2009 at 10:20 pm

  567. We must say about those who are killed in the way of Allah as Insha ALlah Shaheed because only Allah SWT Knows the actual niyyah of the person at the time he was killed. Please note this.

    Now as far as the question about the issue is concerned, I would request all to please read Holy Quran and Sunna yourself as you may be reading a lot of other things. Allah SWT Will Insha Allah question us about this on the Last Day. So fear Allah and think deeply in it and you will Insha Allah find your answers.

    Besides all thsoe who saw the episode of attack of the ” muslim” army on mosque know that this type of thing never pays fruit or the desired results. With brave soldies of army showing signs of “victory” to the first group of journalist, allowed to visit the mosque after its ” conquer”. These brave soldiers of army were standing in the mosques with shoes on. Yes this army is worth good to conquer its own people. Against enemy, it is like a lamb. Look what happended in Kargil and later how bravely they are fighting our own people in FATA.
    If the leadership is a slave of US howcome we can have an army that will safeguard the interests of Pakistan?

    by Syed on Jan 28, 2009 at 9:31 am

  568. @SYED
    completely agreed.
    Ghazi abdul rasheed is a shaheed.he along with fellow puritan muslims gave their lives in a way of “ala e kalmatul haque” for promotion of virtue and prevention of vice.may ALLAH(swt) accept their sacrifices and give their high places and jannat.they deserve respect and remembered

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Jan 28, 2009 at 12:35 pm

  569. noman @ conan the barbarian!
    if you were here in front of me i would kick your yanki ass and show you the way to your boss pervez musharrafs final place of tourment.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Jan 28, 2009 at 3:33 pm

  570. hello dr. jawwaid
    i didnt call anybody by is name, i posted comments if you think you are right then you should discuss with your family he would be favour you.

    dr. jawwaid you been fail to expl. by Quran and Hadees.

    kick is not solution on your topic.where the kick use if anyone abuseing then you can say that.

    but thnik about it you’ve bee kicked out that topic coz you have no any idea or ref.

    by conan on Jan 28, 2009 at 9:46 pm

  571. dr. jawwaid
    next time dont post any stupit topic if you have not any good comments or ref.

    rashid has been killed. he did fight with muslim country against terror not for islam.

    mr jawwaid if you think he is shaheed then whay you do that, you are also muslim and you should need shahadat but you can. you’ve got brain, you know islam dont say to fight with your muslim brother, if you do that then you should go to hell not paradise.

    you’ve already kicked out that topic. what could you do other commentaters.

    shame to you dr. jawwaid, i think you’re scraped doctor.

    by conan on Jan 28, 2009 at 9:58 pm

  572. scraped doctor jawwaid, you are abnormal person,
    Gen Muaheeif was Boss all of the pakistani nation when he was in power. now the Boss is Zardari and kind for your information that topic is’nt for Mushrrif where are you going on.

    that topic is mr. rashid who has been killed war on terror by Milit. govt.

    by conan on Jan 28, 2009 at 10:09 pm

  573. dr jawaad almashoor gandi zuban waay….. and qaum e lout k supporter

    u just know how to abuse or jahilon sai bat nahi ho sakti..i read in one of teeth maestro;s blog tht ur frm saudia …r their guns in any saudi mosque????????
    some terorist once tried to occupy the qaaba in early 80's they were treated in a similar manner to ghazi……

    sayad…..as far as conquering a mosque is concerned i can only laugh at u.the mosque was under occupation of terrorist u all saw the weapons …the brave army men freed the mosque frm the fasadis and the mposque is operating now with 5 times prayers held daily…..as far ghazi is concerned he shd hv been hung and the same is deserved by umme hassan.

    neyaton ka haal Alah janta hai …beshak…..but all action shd be with in the bounderies of islam……….galian denay walay , qaum e lout jo support karnay walay iss blog par ghazi k sab sai baray supporter hain …unko ussi zuban sai gandi gali aur Quran ka nam letay huay sharam nahi atti rather they feel proud……..

    by noman on Jan 29, 2009 at 12:33 pm

  574. syad

    u said tht the army is fighting its own ppl in swat and fata..what i dont understand is why are the own people fighting the army???/ if they are muslims why did they not go to fight the jews and israel? why dont they go to fight the hindus in kashmir????????/these so called own people are taking money frm india and israel and tryin to destablize pakistan…..remember mukharjee dstatement when he said jo agg hum nai apkay mulk mai lagai hai , app sai nahi bhujay gee…..also plz tell me in jahadion ko paisa kon deta hai????? aur yeh jin mulims ko swat mai qabar sai nikal k chowkon par tang rahay hain yeh konsa jihad hai………..school jilana islam ki konsi khidmaty hai????????wah….ab sab darhi rakhain , larkian parhna band karein kiunkay ap sab ki interpretition yehi kehti hai aur shaid apka bhi unkay baray mai yehi khayal ho ga k jo apko ghaat kahay woh kafir hai…………..
    the army operation is justified but they are using less force….itni choot di hai tou yeh hal hai……….inko line mai khara kar k urana chahye………….shame on them and those who support them!!!!!!!!!

    by noman on Jan 29, 2009 at 12:41 pm

  575. someone call on dm dig. tv and ask one quetion that team.
    he said if you have good anseer then reply, please dont bla bla,
    he said I had one friend who was jews, it was best but when the Israel attacked phlaisten I've been left that jews.
    one day he came to my office and said we are jews and attacking to mulims in phalisten but you reply my question you are muslim and pakistani can you expl. your country pakistani muslims are beating muslims. have you got any answer.
    would be stop. now i had'nt got any answer.

    now you team have got any answer.

    mr jawwaid have you got any answer about that question.

    by CONAN on Jan 29, 2009 at 8:47 pm

  576. hi jawwaid why are you absent.
    I read Quran with translation and Hadees.
    you cant find about rashid any refrence by Quran and Hadees.
    Noman bro say you live in Saudi Arabia.
    Saudi peoples go to Dubai for refreshments. lolz

    by CONAN on Jan 29, 2009 at 8:52 pm

  577. i also completely agree that :

    Ghazi abdul rasheed is a shaheed.he along with fellow puritan muslims gave their lives in a way of “ala e kalmatul haque” for promotion of virtue and prevention of vice.may ALLAH(swt) accept their sacrifices and give their high places and jannat.they deserve respect and remembered

    by Muslim on Feb 12, 2009 at 9:02 pm

  578. I could not read the entire lengthy discussion but I gathered that it hinged mostly on the verse of Quran "Amr bil mahroof and Nahi anil munkir", without however deciding what actually is meant by 'Maroof and Munkir' and whether this verse gives one the right to be a judge and all that Talibane Hufza had been doing.

    by readinglord on Feb 13, 2009 at 10:09 am

  579. here it comes again!

    "AMR BIL MAROOF WA NEHA AN IL MUNKIR" simply means:

    promotion of virtue and prevention of vice.

    this is the most clear crystal verse which can not be interpretated by any other way.

    problem is you have to be the muslim to accept the orders of ALLAH(SWT) i believe a QADIYANI can not take any benefit from QURAN E KAREEM.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Feb 13, 2009 at 3:46 pm

  580. You been fail to proved by Quran and Hadees.

    I think you are Qadyani coz if you've read Quran then you'd find but you didnt.

    I read Quran with translation but ghazi rashid story is'nt matching anywhere in Quran.

    you'd contact your teacher he could be find.

    Rashid has socide and killed his team, his team shoud be go to HAVEN and he'd Hell.

    I think Jawwad has been ghazifobia.

    mr. jawwad his you need HAVEN you should sleep next to ghazi coz you did more works for ghazi

    by conan on Feb 13, 2009 at 7:04 pm

  581. mr jawwad if you need HAVEN

    by conan on Feb 13, 2009 at 7:07 pm

  582. conan @ noman!

    shut up.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Feb 13, 2009 at 7:10 pm

  583. i need to kick your freaky butt.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Feb 13, 2009 at 9:10 pm

  584. jawwadkhan without brain

    mind you language dont use mother longue,

    muslim talk be polite not as you as abuse

    you've proved as you're qadeyani.

    by conan on Feb 13, 2009 at 9:17 pm

  585. mother tongue

    by conan on Feb 13, 2009 at 9:18 pm

  586. I would like to request all commnetators if you've refrence by QURAN or HADEES then supply there if not should be Quiet

    Please dont use abusing if you are muslim.

    someone use Dr. and would like abusing its not mean doctor I think its mean Driver.

    by conan on Feb 13, 2009 at 9:25 pm

  587. How could we justify his "shahadat".He tried to impose "his islam" and in result he lost his life, not only his life rather he is responsible for other innocent lives whose were lost in this operation.

    by Riz on Feb 13, 2009 at 11:02 pm

  588. @Riz

    justification of his shahadat is in verse of quran which has been repeatedly quoted here:

    "AMR BILMAROOF WA NIHA AN IL MUNKIR"

    he lost his life in promotion of virtue and prevention of vice. this is sufficient to prove his shahadat.

    as far as messacre of thousands of innocent women and children is concerned, i think musharraf should be hanged along with the other army officers who took part in this messacre along with qadiani officials who secretly played their role mounting tension and making issues more aggravated.

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Feb 14, 2009 at 12:01 am

  589. In the name of Allah the Beneficent the Merciful

    Commanding For Good & Preventing From Bad

    الامربالمعروف والنھی عن المنکر

    ===========================

    First you proved about Rashid it had legal action against Govt.

    Nothing

    how you can say about ghazi jihad.

    last time he had highjack some females and safely release his family.

    1- if any muslim challenge his Govt and killed by govt its not SHAHADAT.

    ==========================================

    Importance of Amr & Nahi

    Amr bi 'l-marûf & nahi 'ani 'l-munkar is a moral and ethical safety-net for the Muslim community and the human society at large. It does not allow the Muslim community to abandon its members in the path of immorality and self-destructive path. Nor does it allow the Muslim ummah to be indifferent to the moral and ethical dilemma faced by humanity at large.

    Allâh says:

    "There should be among you (O believers), a group (of the learned and sincere persons) who should call (the people) towards goodness, bid (them) to the good and forbid (them) from the evil–they are the successful people." (3:104)

    While describing the believers, Allâh says:

    "…The believing men and the believing women are helpers of each other: they bid the good, forbid the evil, establish the prayer, pay the alms, and they obey Allah and His Messenger–these are the people on whom Allah will be merciful. Indeed Allah is Powerful and Wise." (9:71)

    In the latter verse, while counting the positive qualities of the believers, Allah has placed amr bi 'l-ma'rûf and nahi 'ani 'l-munkar before the salât and the zakât. Because it is with amr and nahi that salât, zakât and other good deeds will be promoted and practised in the Muslim community.

    Imam 'Ali bin Abi Tâlib (a.s.) said: "Verily the people before you perished because when they committed sins, the Rabbis and the Priests did not forbid them from it. And when the people became submerged into sins and the Rabbis and the Priests did not forbid them, then the chastisement came down upon them. Therefore, bid towards the good and forbid the evil; and know that bidding towards the good and forbidding from evil will not hasten your death or decrease your sustenance." On the same lines, the Prophet of Islam (may peace be upon him) had said earlier that, "My followers will be in good condition as long as they bid (each other) towards the good, forbid (each other) from the evil, and co-operate with each other in good (deeds). If they do not do this, then the (heavenly) blessings will be lifted from them and some (evil ones) among them will be imposed over them (as a ruler). In that state, they will have no helper, neither on the earth nor in the heaven."

    Once a person from the tribe of Khath'am came to the Prophet and asked him: "O the Messenger of God! Please inform me about the best [teaching] of Islam."

    by conan on Feb 14, 2009 at 10:11 am

  590. The Prophet: "Believing in God."

    Khath'ami: "Then what?"

    The Prophet: "Maintaining [good] relations with the relatives."

    Khath'ami: "Then what?"

    The Prophet: "Bidding the good and forbidding the evil."

    Then the Khath'ami asked, "And please also tell me what are the worst deeds in view of Allah?"

    The Prophet: "Shirk: associating a person or a thing with Allah."

    Khath'ami: "Then what?"

    The Prophet: "Severing relations with the relatives."

    Khath'ami: "Then what?"

    The Prophet: "Promoting evil and forbidding the good."

    These ahâdîth from the Prophet and the Imam are sufficient to impress the importance of amr bi 'l-ma'rûf and nahi 'ani 'l-munkar for the ethical and moral wellbeing of the Muslim ummah and humanity at large.

    by conan on Feb 14, 2009 at 10:14 am

  591. 3. Amr & Nahi: An Expression of Brotherhood

    Amr and nahi should not be seen as interfering in the lives of other people; it is, on the contrary, one of the demands of brotherhood in Islam.

    The Qur'ânic verse in which Almighty Allâh has talked about Islamic brotherhood is not actually a verse about brotherhood–it is a verse which gives an extreme example of amr and nahi, and it justifies the "interference" by saying that "indeed the believers are brothers". Now read the entire two verses:

    If two groups from among the believers fight (against each other), then you should make peace between them. However, if one continues its aggression over the other, then fight the aggressor party until it agrees to return to the command of Allah. If the aggressor agrees to return (to the command of Allah), then make peace between the two on the basis of justice. Be just; verily Allah loves those who are just. Indeed the believers are brothers, therefore, make peace between your brothers. And fear Allah so that you may be dealt with mercy." (49:9-10)

    This verse is saying that Muslims cannot be indifferent to the problems of their brethren; they have to get involved: either they should resolve the conflict peacefully or side with the oppressed against the aggressor until peace and justice is achieved in the society. This is not interference in the negative sense, this is the demands and rights of brotherhood which Allâh has established among the believers.

    4. Conditions & Levels of Amr & Nahi

    The issue of amr bi 'l-ma'rûf and nahi 'ani 'l-munkar, depending on the circumstance, can take different forms: it can become wâjib or sunnat. Even the means of amr and nahi depends on the circumstances of the issue and the person involved.

    The person who wants to do amr and nahi should observe the following conditions:

    1. You must be familiar with the Islamic view on that issue in order to properly define "good" and "evil" before encouraging others to do good or forbid them from evil.

    2. In each given case, you must weigh the possibility of the influence of your advice. If you are sure or there seems to be a great probability that your words will have no effect on the other person, then it is not necessary to do amr or nahi.

    3. You must also evaluate the state of the person whom you want to advise. Is he insisting or repeating the evil deeds or was it just a one time slip on his part? If you discern or come to know that he is not going to repeat the sin, then you do not have to do amr or nahi.

    4. You must also evaluate the overall situation to make sure that your action of amr or nahi would not lead to a worse situation than what exists at present.

    * * *

    Even when you have decided that you should do amr or nahi, you will have to look at the different level of doing amr bi 'l-ma'rûf and nahi 'ani 'l-munkar. In all, there are three levels of amr and nahi:

    1. By indirect action: By indirectly expressing your dislike of the other person's wrongful behaviour. For example, by not greeting him or greeting him without the previous warmth, or by ignoring him: with the hope that this might lead the person to think about change in your attitude towards him, and hopefully guide him to the right direction.

    2. Verbally: If the first method does not work, then talk to the person. Whether you should talk politely and friendly, or harshly depends on the situation.

    3. By direct action: This is only applicable to those who have authority over others: parents, teachers and Islamic government. If preventing the evil depends on physical action, then it must be thought out very carefully. The example mentioned in 49:9 is of this level of amr and nahi.

    by conan on Feb 14, 2009 at 10:15 am

  592. امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر کے متعلق گفتگو

    میرے والد نے فر مایا: تم نے بہت سے احکام شرعیہ کو جان لیا ہے کہ جن کی تم کو ضرورت تھی اور بہت سی چیزوں کو جان لیا ہے ۔اب تم نے خدا وندعالم کے بعض احکام کو جان لیا ہے اور ان کے واجبات کی بھی حسب ضرورت تم پر وضاحت ہو گئی ہے اور ان کے بعض محرمات (حرام چیزوں) کو بھی یاد کر لیا ہے ۔اب میں تمہارے سامنے وہ چیز بیان کر تا ہوں کہ جس کو اس سے پہلے بیان نہیں کیا گیا۔

    اس وقت تمہارے اوپر واجب ہے کہ تم ماضی کی تمام سختیوں کو یاد کرو۔ آج تم اپنے سر کو آسمان کی طرف بلند کرو ، اور اپنے دل کی گہرائی سے حزن و ملال اور حیرت کے ساتھ پر ور د گار کی بار گا ہ میں یوں عرض کرو “۔

    الھی اعلم انک کلفتی ،ولکنی لا اعلم بما ذا کلفتنی“

    ”پالنے والے میں جانتا ہوں کہ تو نے مجھے مکلف بنا دیا ہے ۔ لیکن میں یہ نہیں جانتا ہوں کہ تو نے مجھے کس چیز کا مکلف بنایا ہے “۔ پا لنے والے؛مجھ پر ضروری ہے کہ میں جان لوں کہ تو نے کس چیز کو مجھ پر حلال کیا تا کہ میں اس کو انجام دوں ۔ اور کس چیز کو تو نے حرام قراردیا ہے، تا کہ میں اس سے پرہیز کروں۔

    اس وقت تمہیں جان لینا چاہیے، تمہارے ہم عمر یا تم سے بڑے لوگ بہت زیادہ ہیں جو پڑھ رہے ہیں ، وہ مدت سے تمہارے ساتھ رہتے ہیں اور تمہاری تمام مشکلات ومصائب میں وہ تمہارے شا نہ بشانہ رہے ہیں۔ اورتم خدا کی بارگاہ میں عرض کرو ، کہ اے خدایا ! فقہ اسلامی کی کتابوں کے مطالب کو جیسا تو چاہتا ہے میرے اوپر روشن اور آ شکار بنا دے اور میری مدد فر ما،تا کہ میں ان کو تیری مرضی کے مطابق سمجھ سکوں ۔فعلا جن چیزوں کا سیکھنا ضروری تھا وہ تم سیکھ چکے، اور کچھ احکام فقہ کا تم نے ذخیرہ کر لیا ہے۔ اب تم کو قرآن مجید کے اس قول کے مطابق ان پر عمل کر نا چا ہئے۔

    ”ولتکن منکم امةیدعون الی الخیر یامرون بالمعروف وینھون عن المنکر و اولئک ھم المفلحون“

    ”اور تم میں سے کچھ لوگ ہوں جو لوگوں کو خیر کی طرف بلائیں اور اچھی باتوں کا حکم کریں اور بری باتوں سے روکیں اور یہی لوگ فلاح پانے والے ہیں“پس تم بھی لوگوں کو نیکی کی طرف دعوت دو اور انھیں اچھائی کا حکم دو اور برائی سے رو کو۔

    سوال: والد صاحب میں کس چیز کا حکم کروں اور کس چیز سے منع کروں؟

    جواب: جس نیکی اور اچھائی کو تم جانتے ہو اس کا حکم کرو اور جس کو تم برائی سمجھتے ہو اس سے روکو۔

    سوال: لیکن ابا جان ؛ مجھے دو سرے لوگوں سے کیا مطلب جو شخص برائی کر رہا ہے میرا اس سے کیا تعلق ہے۔کہ میں اس کو ترک کر نے کا حکم دوں،میں کیوں لوگوں کے معاملات میں مدا خلت کروں ، اور ان کو نیکی اور اچھا ئی کا حکم کروں ، اور برائیوں سے روکوں، میں خود اچھا کام انجام دوں اور برائی سے ا پنے آپ کوروکوں کیا یہ کافی نہیں ہے؟

    جواب: اے بیٹا ! آج کے بعد ایسی بات نہ کہنا اور دو بارہ اس کی تکرار نہ کرنا ۔ امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر کچھ مراتب میں واجب کفائی ہیں اور اگر کسی نے بھی امر با لمعروف و نہی عن المنکر کے فرائض کو انجام نہ دیا مثلانہ میں نے، نہ تم نے اور نہ ہمارے علاوہ کسی اور نے ، تو ہم سب کے سب گناہ گار ہوں گے اور خدا وندعالم کے غضب اور اس کی ناراض گی کا باعث بنیں گے، اور اگر ہم میں سے کسی ایک نے بھی امر بالمعروف اور نہی عن المنکر کو انجام دے دیا تو پھر تمام لوگوں سے اس کا وجوب ساقط ہو جائے گا کیا تم نے خدا کے اس قول میں غور نہیں کیا؟

    ”ولتکن منکم امةً یّدعون الی الخیرو یا مرون بالمعروف وینھون عن المنکر واولئک ھم المفلحون“

    ” تم میں سے کچھ لوگ ہوں جو لوگو ں کو نیکی کی طرف بلائیں اور انہیں اچھی باتوں کا حکم دیں اور بری باتوں سے روکیں یہی لوگ فلاح پانے والے ہیں“ یہ آیت پہلے بیان ہو چکی ہے، کیا تم نے نبی اکرم صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم کے اس قول کو نہیں سنا کہ وہ ارشاد فر ماتے ہیں:

    ْْلاتزال امتی بخیر ماامر وابالمعروف ، ونھواعن المنکر وتعاونوا علی البر الخ“

    ”جب تک میری امت اچھائی اور نیکی کا حکم کرے گی اور برا ئی سے رو کے گی اور نیکی پر ایک دوسرے کی مدد کرے گی اس وقت تک میری امت سے خیر ختم نہیں ہو گا ۔ اورجب وہ یہ کام ترک کر دے گی تو اس سے بر کتیں اٹھالی جائیں گی اور ان میں سے بعض کو بعض پر مسلط کردیا جائے گا۔ اور ان کا زمین اور آسمان میں کوئی مدد گار نہ ہو گا“ کیا تم نے امام علی علیہ السلام کا یہ قول نہیں پڑھا:

    ” لاتترکو الامربالمعروف والنھی عن المنکر فیولی علیکم شرارکم ثم تد عون فلا یستجاب لکم“؟

    ”امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر کو ترک نہ کرنا ورنہ بد کار لوگ تم پر حاکم ہوجائیں گے۔ پھر تم ان کو بلاؤ گے تو وہ تمہاری آوا زپر لبیک نہ کہیں گے“ ”امام جعفر صادق علیہ السلام نے نے فر مایا:

    ” ان الامر بالمعروف والنھی عن المنکر سبیل الانبیاء ، ومنھاج الصلحاء فریضة عظیمة بھا تقام الفراض ، وتامن المذاھب ، وتحل المکا سب وترد المظالم، وتعمرالا رض، وینتصف من الاعداء ویستقیم الامر “

    ” امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر انبیاء اور صالحین کا راستہ ہے ، یہ ایک ایسا عظیم فریضہ ہے کہ جس کے ذریعہ واجبات ادا ہوتے ہیں اور نیک راہیں محفوظ ، اور کارو بار حلال ، مظالم دور ہوتے ہیں ، زمینیں آباد ، دشمنوں سے انصاف اور مشکلات حل ہوتے ہیں“

    اور نیز آپ ہی کا یہ ارشاد ہے:

    ” الامر بالمعروف والنھی عن المنکر خلقان من خلق اللہ، فمن نصر ھما اعزہ اللہ ومن خذ لھما خذلہ اللہ “

    ” امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر دو مخلوق خدا ہیں ، جو شخص ان دو نو ں کی مدد کرے گا تو خدا اسے عزت عطا کرے گا اور جو ان کو ذلیل ورسوا کرے گا تو خدا اس کو ذلیل ورسوا کرےگا “

    ” کلکم راع کلکم مسؤ ول عن رعیتہ

    ” تم میں سے ہر ایک اپنے اپنے گر وہ اور جماعت کا نگہبان اور ذمہ دار ہے “

    ہاں میں نے پڑھا ہے ؛

    پس اس بنا پر تم بھی اپنی جماعت اور گر وہ کے ذمہ دار ہو ، جو شخص ذمہ دار اور نگہبان ہوتا ہے اس کی ذمہ داریوں اور واجبات وحقوق میں مزید اضافہ ہو جاتا ہے ۔ یا تم ان سب چیزوں کے بدلے یہ کہہ سکتے ہو کہ میں یہ فضول کام کیوں کرو ں میں کسی کے معاملات میں مدا خلت کیوں کروں یہ میرے لیے زیبا نہیں ۔ امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر کوئی فضول چیز نہیں ہیں اور یہ دونوں کسی کے معا ملہ میں مدا خلت بھی نہیں ، یہ تمہاری شان کے خلاف نہیں ، بلکہ تمہاری شان کے عین مطابق ہیں۔ پس جس ذات نے تم پر نماز ، روزہ،حج اور خمس کو واجب کیا ہے اسی نے تم پر امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر کو واجب قرار دیاہے۔

    سوال: لیکن میں کوئی مولوی نہیں ہوں کہ جو امر بامعروف ونہی عن المنکر کروں؟

    جواب: کس نے تم سے کہا کہ امر بالعروف ونہی عن المنکر صرف مولوی کی ذمہ داری ہوتی ہے ۔امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر دو ایسے واجبات ہیں جو تمہارے اوپر میرے اوپر مولوی صاحب پر، طالب علم، استاد،تاجر، مزدور، ملازم ، فوجی ، ماتحت، مالدار،غریب ، عورت اور مرد سب پر واجب ہیں۔

    سوال: آپ کو میں نے فر ماتے ہوئے سناہے کہ امر بالمعروف و نہی عن المنکر کے کچھ مراتب واجب کفائی ہیں پس کیا ان دونوں کے کچھ مراتب واجب عینی بھی ہیں ۔ جیسے وجوب نماز یومیہ کہ جو واجب عینی ہے؟

    جواب: ہاں ان دونوں کے کچھ مراتب واجب عینی بھی ہیں، اور وہ ایسے شخص سے فعلی وقولی اعتبار سے نارضایتی کے اظہار کا مرتبہ ہے۔ جوواجب کو ترک کرتا ہے اور حرام کو انجام دیتا ہے ۔ کیاتم تک امیرالمنین علی علیہ السلام کا یہ قول نہیں پہنچا کہ جس میں آپ نے فر مایا :

    ” امر نا رسول اللہ صل اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم ان نلقی اھل المعاصی بو جوہ مکفھرة“

    ” امیرا لمو منین علیہ السلام نے فر ما یا کہ رسول خدا ﷺنے ہم کو حکم دیا کہ جب ہم اہل معاصی ( گناہ کر نے والو ں) سے ملیں تو ترش روئی کے ساتھ ملیں۔“ یعنی ہم سب کے اوپر واجب ہے کہ جو شخص گناہ کا مر تکب ہوتا ہے اس سے نا پسندگی اور ناراضگی کا اظہار کریں۔

    سوال: کیا امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر تمام حالات میں واجب ہیں؟

    جواب: نہیں ،ان کے وجوب میں مندرجہ ذیل شرائط کا پایا جانا ضروری ہے:

    (۱) امر با المعر وف ونہی عن المنکر کر نے والا شخص واجب اور حرام امورکو جانتاہو، چاہے اجمالی طور پر ہی جانتا ہو اور ان کی تفصیل نہ جانتا ہو اور اس کا اتنا جاننا ہی کافی ہے کہ یہ عمل واجب ہے کہ جس کا حکم کر رہا ہے اور یہ عمل حرام ہے کہ جس سے روک رہا ہے،

    (۲) یہ احتمال ہو کہ جس کا یہ حکم دے رہا ہے اس کو وہ بجالائے گا اور جس چیز سے یہ روک رہا ہے اس سے وہ رک جائے گا اور اس میں کسی قسم کی کوتاہی لاپرواہی اور غفلت نہیں کریگا ۔

    سوال: اگر یہ معلوم ہوجائے کہ یہ شخص جس کو امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر کیا جا رہا ہے حرام کو انجام دے گا اور واجب کو ترک کردے گا اور واجب وحرام دونو ں میں کسی کی اہمیت کا قائل نہیں تو کیا حکم ہے؟

    جواب: امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر کے بعض مر احل اس سے ساقط ہو جائیں گے (اور ا ن دونو ں کے بعض مراحل واجب رہیں گے۔ اور اس کاقولاًو فعلاً واجب کے ترک کر نے اور حرام کے انجام دینے والے سے کراہت وناراض گی کا اظہار ہے)

    (۳) یہ کہ واجب کا ترک کر نے والا اور حرام کا بجا لا نیوالا ترک واجب اور فعل حرام پر مصر رہے لیکن اگر احتمال ہو کہ وہ اپنے اس فعل سے بعض آجائے گا تو پھر اسکو امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر کر نا واجب نہیں ہے۔

    سوال: میں تاکید کے ساتھ سوال کر تاہوں کہ اگر وہ منکر کے بجا لانے اور معروف کے ترک کرنے پر اصرار نہ کرے تو کیا حکم ہے؟

    جواب: تو پھر اس کو امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر کرنا واجب نہیں ہے۔

    سوال: کس طرح معلوم ہوگا کہ یہ شخص منکر کے بجا لانے پر مصرہے یا نہیں؟

    جواب: جب تم پر کوئی ایسی علامت ظاہر ہوکہ جس سے یہ معلوم ہو جائے کہ وہ اپنے اس فعل سے باز آ گیا ہے اور وہ اس پر نادم ہے تو پھر معلوم ہوجائے گا کہ وہ اس پر مصر نہیں ہے اور اس کو امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر کرنا واجب نہیں ہے۔

    سوال: مجھے کسی شخص کے متعلق معلوم ہوتا ہے کہ وہ منکر کو انجام دے نے اور معروف کو ترک کرنے کا ارادہ رکھتا ہے تو کیا ایسی صورت میں مجھ پر امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر کر نا واجب ہے؟

    جواب: یہاں تم پر اس کوامربالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر کر نا واجب ہے ۔ یہاں تک کہ اگر وہ ۔۔۔ صرف ایک بار ہی کیو ں نہ قصد مخالفت رکھتا ہو ( تو بھی تم پر واجب ہے )

    (۴) حرام کا م کو انجام دینے والا اور واجب کام کو ترک کر نے والا اپنے اعتقاد کی بنا پر معذورنہ ہو مثلا جو فعل وہ انجام دے رہا ہے اور اس کے اعتقاد کے مطابق حرام نہیں ہے۔ اور جس کام کو وہ ترک کر رہا ہے وہ اس کے اعتقاد کے مطابق واجب نہیں ہے ۔ اور وہ اپنی اس خطامیں معذورہے۔ تو ایسی صورت میں تم پر کوئی چیز واجب نہیں ہے ۔

    (۵) امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر کر نے والے کی جان، مال اور ناموس کو حد سے زیادہ خطرہ نہ ہویا اس کے امر با لمعروف ونہی عن المنکر سے کسی کو خطرہ لاحق نہ ہو ، اگر ایسا ہوگا تو پھر واجب نہیں ہے۔

    سوال: اور اگر امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر کرنے سے اسے اپنی جان یا مسلمانوں میں سے کسی کو نقصان پہنچنے کا خطرہ ہو تو کیا کرے؟

    جواب: تو اس حالت میں اس پر امر با لمعروف ونہی عن ا لمنکرواجب نہیں ہے، مگر یہ کہ معروف یا منکر شارع اسلامی کی نظر میں بہت اہم ہوں ۔ تو ایسی صورت میں احتمال کی قوت کا لحاظ اور تحمل کی اہمیت کا لحاظ کرکے دونوں طرف کا موازنہ کرنا ضروری ہے۔ پس کبھی امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر واجب ہے اور کبھی واجب نہیں ہے۔

    سوال: اور جب میں معروف کے حکم کرنے اور منکر سے نہی کرنے کا ارادہ کر لوں تو؟

    جواب: امر بالمعروف ونہی عن المنکر کے چند مراتب ہیں:

    by conan on Feb 14, 2009 at 10:17 am

  593. wow!conan @noman

    thanks for the refrences from Quran e kareem.you made my job easier.but dear why "makalma"???can a "makalma" make a difference in this type of discussion?

    i would be happy if you produce some thing from hadith or asar e sahaba.

    you said:

    "if any muslim challenge his Govt and killed by govt its

    not SHAHADAT.

    it shows your poor understanding about islam and utter ignorance about islamic history.

    the fasiq and fajir govts in islamic history is being challanged by rasikh ul aqeeda muslims since the begining of islam.

    hazrat imam hussain(rata) was the biggest example.

    shaikh majadid alf e sani was the other example of our subcontinent.islamic history is full of these examples.

    glad to see the refrences from Quran e kareem.

    the meaning is crystal clear "promote the virtue" and "prevent the vice"

    question is how we can prevent the vice?

    the right answer is the following hadith

    “Whoever amongst you sees an evil should change it with his hand. If he is unable to do that then with his tongue. If he is unable to do that, then with his heart, and that is the weakest level of Iman.”

    (sahee Muslim)

    this was an answer of point you raise.

    regarding poisnous propaganda against shaheed ghazi abdul rasheed.it is so obnoxious,cheap and disgusting that i do not see any reason to answer that.people know that what happened 1 year ago and diaspora understand very well the reasons behind this poisnous propaganda even after 1 year.

    i am sure this propaganda will work in reverse direction.it is the law of ALMIGHT.

    my prayers are the same as before:

    ya ALLAH(swt) mera khatma ghazee abdul rasheed aur doosre shahada e lal masjid o jamia hafsa ke saath farma.

    aur conan @ noman ka khatima un logon ke saath farma jinhon ne in rasikh ul aqeeda muslims ko bedardi se qatal kia.

    AMEEN

    by dr.jawwadkhan on Feb 14, 2009 at 5:44 pm

  594. Is there any fatwa which clearly mention that what ghazee abdul rasheed did was unislamic?

    can you produce one?

    ALL muftian e karam and ulema e deen said what ghazee abdul rasheed demanded was just right.their only reservation is the use of force.

    the practical question what will happen when one day you see a brothel start working in your neighborhood:

    1) you shall tell them to move from here.(obviously there will be no result)

    2) you will complain in nearby police station (obviously ther