Mumbai Under Attack & Pakistan to blame

You are right but who’s gonna believe.
I feel like, we (the people of both countries) are football between these two governments.
What ever they do, the victims are the people of both countries.
Feeling really sorry for Mumbai.

Teeth Maestro
Your article is very genuine and since 9/11 in USA and July seven bombings in London ,whenever I hear such news,the fear engulfs me and I start praying,it is not linked to Pakistan.
Your concerns are genuine and fears for Karachi are mutual.
FIRST LET ME SAY I FEEL EXTREMELY SORRY For THE LOSS OF LIFE AND AT THE DEMAGE OF CULTURAL HERITAGE (Taj and Oberoi):IT IS AN ATTACK ON EMERGING SUPER POWER OF THE WORLD.
ALSO I WOULD LIKE TO APPRECIATE THE SPIRIT OF MUMBAI <IT DID NOT CAME TO STAND STILL ,PEOPLE ARE RESILLIENT AND ITS GOVERMENT DEFIANT.
Although India has tried to point fingers towards Pakistan but if India wants to progress truely and emerge as a true secular state and a biggest example of DEMOCRACY in THE WORLD,INDIA has to look within.
We the Pakistanis are victim of terrorism and even worst we are fighting USA as well.
India and Paksitan both cannot deny that even after the divide,both countries have tried to get rid of fundamentalists and hardliners but somehow ,both countries have failed.
India before pointing the finger towards Pakistan should consider that ISlamabad Marriot was attacked in the same manner.Targets were foreigners.
In both countries there is high ratio of people who feel deprived and poor and thus have deep resentment against the people who have access to money and splash the cash.
India particularly have many ethnic and religious problems which are needed to be addressed.
Invasion of Golden Temple,Murders of Indira Gandhi , Rajiv Gandhi and plane crash of Sunjay were not plotted by Pakistanis or neither by muslims.
FROM Babri Masjid,Bombay,Dehli,train balsts and to the mass murders and public massacres,of Christians and muslims in recent months are not linked to International Terrorism.These are India’s internal problems.
Untill India addresses the grievences of its diverse religious population,its original ideaology that Hindustan is for Hindus alone and the Jhumpar Patti poverty ,India will face such reaction which is breeding within its own masses.
This Terrorism act was not linked to Alqaeda either,as Alqaeda recruits believe in commiting suicide ,instead of using guns and taking hostages .
Pakistan never had better relations with India.Mr.Zardari has agreed to open Pakistan borders, has agreed to provide access to India to use its roads from WAHGA TO THE HIGHEST PEAKS IN KASHMIR and upto Afghanistan.What more can Pakistan government do to please India?
If these are not good relations what else would be?
Instead of trying to divert the attention from its own problems by blaming it on Pakistan and calling Pakistan a root cause of all problems of the modern times
India should really try to address the masses within the country.
TERRORISTS HAVE DEMANDED THE RELEASE OF THE PEOPLE TAKEN INTO PRISON ,AGAIN INDIANS WANTED IN DIFFERENT VIOLENCE ACTS
IN INDIA.
How this links to Pakistan?I do not understand.
What I do understand though is that Kashmir should be resolved so that both nations can peacefuly concentrate on their INTERNAL PROBLEMS and ATTEND TO THE NEEDS OF MASSES.
If the recent incidents in India and Pakistan spells out anything that is people in both countries are deprived,are poor,lack resources and have deep resentment against their respective governments.
A positive step would be if INDIA AND PAKISTAN governemnts condemn these attacks together.Co-operate with eachother in tracking down the culprits and accept each other as independent neighbours.
Unless India and Pakistan join hands this extremism in both countries will prevail.Also both countries need to nurture,tolerance,peace and unity amongst their respective masses.

Yes. Because on the jacket of those terrorists were written “Made in Peshawar”

one of the investors at my company got caught up when the Taj was attacked. He was fast enough to take his dad and got a number of people into a room where he smashed a window and made a rope out of bed sheets to climb out of the window from the 4th Floor. Traumatic isnt even the the best word to describe his experience.

While you are saying that these are India’s internal problems i just want to point out this time it is not an internal problem -It is NOT. These people are from KARACHI…the proofs are there for everyone to see on mainstream media :(
Please read what this gentleman has to say, he says all that i feel far better than i would ever be able to put into words….
http://greatbong.net/2008/11/28/indias-nine-eleven/

While i am willing to believe that religion is only secondary to these monsters, its driven more by base human emotions like jealousy as you point out; i am unwilling to buy that Pakistan is not behind these attacks!!!

I just wish that a majority of your countrymen were like you…and maybe we would have never had this strife in the first place!

DearIndian
Thanks for sharing.It is natural that the first finger from India will always be pointed towards Pakistan and vice a versa.
The TRAGEDY that struck India is massive and huge.Pakistan cannot afford the consequences of it.This needs a lot of investigation before India and the International community will be able to know exactly who is behind this.
We are fed with so much hate, propoganda and the mud fights that “WE “the people of India and Pakistan cannot see beyond each other.
India today is an emerging super power.Only few weeks ago it sentits mission to moon,think again dear friend ,your money ,your power ,your progress,your IT industry and now space plan …..you are a big fish now turning into Shark,Maybe it is teh other SHARKS…….who feel threatened.

I do not understand this apologetic behaviour. Why are we giving explanations when we don’t need to? Why are we talking about “the curse of terrorism that has engulfed both countried” and subtly implying that we might be responsible? Has there been a thorough investigation? Don’t we rememeber the Samjhota Express bomb blast, the immediate Indian reaction and the actual facts?

ISI has its hands full on our western border and cannot afford an intelligence war with our trigger-happy neighbour on the east.

Looking at it objectively, I feel internal forces in India have more to gain from these attacks. They would take the focus off Hindu Extremism and its diffusion into Indian intelligence (Lt. Col Prohit’s involvement in Samjhota Express and other bombings). Hindu extremist organisations such as RSS and VHS (both closely affiliated with BJP) as well as the Indian Intelligence have been under close scrutiny after the Col. Purohit incident. Finally its the election year in India and such an incident can only serve one party.

However, I am not pointing any fingers. I am just demonstrating that analysing the situation from a different angle would lead to a diammetrically opposite conclusion. It is just too early to tell and I am amazaed how quickly Indian media and politicians pointed the finger at Pakistan.

@ Indian

The events that are taking place in Mumbai are truly detestable. Believe me, nobody call relate to the plight of India at this point in time, like Pakistan. However, India declared that Pakistan behind these attacks within hours. find it hard to believe that an objective and thorough investigation could have taken place in such a short time. The convenient evidence found thus far itself deserves another look.

i agree with sajjad. they didnt have the intelligence to find out about the attacks. wait they did know something about it but they didnt bother following it up. even their own people are wondering how the terrorists could be so familiar with all the routes etc. it’s a “wonder” how they came up with the intelligence reports so fast and how they made all their conclusions. investigations usually take place over a long period of time. either they have oracles who help them track down the perpetrators or they have really good AI system which allowed them to input all the data and come up with fast answers. It was inevitable that they would blame Pakistan once again sigh.

To all,

If India is trying to start any war or kind of war, so I would say BRING IT ON…

Honestly I think Indian Media is playing a big role to change a mind set of normal peopl.

One of the arrested terrorists has been confirmed as a member of LET, from Faridkot in Pakistan. With of Population of 1 billion and majority hindu population i see no reason that the Hindu Fundamentalists need to import terrorists from our neighbor. The LET leader, The Mumbai underworld don and god knows who else roam freely in Pakistan…You seriously expect us to believe that Hindu Extremists are behind this?
I do not condone their actions either. In India we still have hope that the guilty will be brought to justice as the last week investigations have shown…
Can Pakistan make the same claim?

I do not want to be offensive, neither am i looking for apologies but i am just trying to understand Why? Why?

Indian unclejee are you talking about Indian Faridkot?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faridkot

While these terror attacks are deplorable, hateful and are surely done by people who are advocates of violent Islam and the hated sharia based .

However, taking this opportunity as a wake up call India should also stop the blame game of propaganda against Pakistan as Mr. Manmohan Singh said last night in his TV address that there is an “external” hand in all this. We and all others already know what he actually means by “external”.

India should also address the various issues related to discrimination and suppression of religious and ethnic minorities and stop violence against innocent people in Kashmir (More than a million people have been killed by the Indian Army killers).
India should reign in the Hindu extremists who commit rampant crimes against all minorities and are also advocates of Hindutva for all of India, irrespective of ones religious denomination.
India should implement its constitution that advocates secularism and provide constitutional guarantees to all minorities and not only Hindu schedule castes.
India should punish those who perpetrated crimes against Sikh community in Delhi & Punjab. It should also arrest and punish people responsible for Gujarat carnage of innocent Muslims.

Looking at Indian Muslims, one can believe that the vision of Mr. Jinnah to create a separate homeland called, “Pakistan” for a marginalized community was correct and relevant at that time. The dream may have been turned sour now, but that is due to reasons that had nothing to do with the vision of Jinnah.

@ Indian

The convenience of the evidence found so far itself makes it suspect. The sources behind acts of organsied terrorism are normally unearthed through complex money trails, logistic details and an analysis of motives not through mobile phones with Pakistani numbers or with an interrogation of a person who claims he is from Faridkot, Pakistan, which is a conundrum in itself as such a place does not exist.

My dear Indian do you think the highly trained terrorists, who had planned every last detail of their mission and successfully held off the whole Indian NGC force for almost 3 days, did not realise that they shouldn’t bring anything along that would implicate their backers. Come on! grow up and smell the crap in your own backyard.

Pakistan or for that matter ISI has nothing to gain from such attacks on the other hand the under-investigation Indian Army, the rently-humiliated BJP politicians and the Bajrang Dal/VHS/RSS extremists are already celebrating their exoneration. The investigation into these elements that was uderway in India threatened to expose the penetration of Hindu extremism in the Indian establishment.

Pakistan is fighting terrorism in all its forms while India is allowing them to take over their country.

@ Doctor you are wrong in more ways than one! :) I am rfeferring to http://www.maplandia.com/pakistan/punjab/multan/faridkot/

@Shakir Ally
Tell me how would you feel if some 3rd person were to tell you how you feel about your motherland…I am a minority person who hails from Kashmir…the Indian Kashmir….and believe even in my worst nightmares i do not want to join Pakistan…Azaadi is not one of my demands & never has been…I know practically an Independent Kashmir is not even a remote possibility…the minute we declare independence from India, Pakistan will not even spare 2 seconds before attacking us! Frankly if its a choice between India and Pakistan..i would always always side with India…I am guaranteed basic human rights, an opportunity to create a comfortable life for my family…In Pakistan i know i will always be treated like a second class citizen- A mujahir forever! I know i speak for majority of the people i know….

Minority cleansing is wat the now venerated Benazir pushed for against the Kashmiri Hindus..The situation in Kashmir is something that is being exploited in both India and Pakistan by politicians for their own gains! Please remember that whenever the Hindu rightwing has been in the wrong the whole country has criticized & condemned them, they are sidelined in the political arenas which is why despite being the largest party with elected representatives BJP was unable to form a Govt…because they were politically isolated…and i think we will see a repeat even in the upcoming elections too!

When you talk about Pakistan fighting terrorism please do point me to news artciles/links etc where i can read up how Pakistan plans to combat its home grown terrorism…

@Sajjad
I dont think this is the end of the ATS enquiry into the hindu terrorism that you talk abt…We all will have to wait and watch..but with UPA’s face in the mud after these attacks they have too much to lose by not pursuing that line of action…Luckily for us elections are just around the corner…

I agree that a lot of the evidence still needs to be validated, and maybe there is a one in a million chance that it might be a knee jerk reaction on India’s part but tell me with the history we share with Pakistan, of the LET, Hizbul Mujahidiin, the video evidence of Terrorist Training Camps in Pakistan are Indians really that wrong in blaming Pakistan for terror attacks of such scale?

I will leave it up to our inept politicians/administration to investigate and prove who was “really” behind these attacks!

I am also praying that Mosad does not disappoint and goes after whoever killed the Israeli Nationals in Nariman House…unfortunately we as a country have a better chance of justice through the Mosad than our own Govt..

but this country is on the verge of becoming a superpower despite the inept Govt,….and we shall survive this!

I reiterate, I do not want to be disrespectful of anyone..I (hope) am also certain that majority residents of Pakistan do not condone the attacks in Mumbai..It is definitely a case of a few bad apples giving the rest a bad name…

@Indian

I was watching reporter from indian new channel claiming that the terrorists were linked to pakistan because of their punjabi style dialect (just by listening to the conversation of the terrorist that he is from Deccan Mujahidin they figured out that he is Pakistani). Just because of a friggin’ dialect they linked it to Pakistan? .

A point to ponder few people came from pakistan and masterminded such a brutal and vicious attack which literally kept whole of India on its toes for 3 days. I mean do you really believe this crap propaganda that your media is spreading? Without any major help from internal sources these alleged Pakistanis couldn’t have even reached these 7 different points where they were suppose to attack.Its simply a logistically impossible for an outsider to even reach those 7 places without getting detected. I mean its simply preposterous to say that they came in speedboats from Karachi and then went straight to these hotels and orchestrated these attacks.

Now lets talk some facts. There are 7 major separatist movements going on in india at the moment. Hindu extremists have gone amuck in recent days,this year alone almost 50 churches have been destroyed and burnt by Hindu extremists. You’ve rightly said it your self why would Hindu Fundamentalists need to import terrorists from your neighbors. There are already enough people who have suffered and have genuine grievances and all this looks like their handiwork rather then few pakistanis who came by speedboats. Its all home grown terrorism and Indian intelligence agencies are too embarrassed to admit their failure and and trying to cover their failure by conveniently blaming it all on Pakistan.

@ Indian

Let me add to doctor’s list of India’s virtuous demonstrations of its secular stance:

1. 600 christians killed this year alone
2. 2000 Muslims massacred in Gujrat in 2002
3. Babri mosque demolished in 1992
4. Demolition of the Golden Temple (the holiest Sikh temple) in 1984

These are just a few examples. You’re worst nighmare might be joining Pakistan but I know for a lot people in India this would be a dream come true. There are separation movements going on in a third of India. When will you accept that India that India is a giant with clay feet?

@ Indian

You might find this article interesting:

http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/article_detail.php?id=533

It’s written by an Indian!

Bad days ahead! It is however heartening to note that the top-leaders on both sides of the blame-divide have reacted in a very sane manner. While Manmohan Singh has not blamed Pakistan government as such but has stated only that the roots of terrorism lie in the Pakiland, Asif Zardari has virtually confirmed this by saying that (I quote him in Urdu),”Gheir reyaasti anaasir hakoomaton par apna agenda musallat karna chaahate hein”.

India is not perfect; it has many problems. Even so, it tries to be fair and it tries to impose a secular law and provide equal rights. That is more than anything we see in the Muslim world.

This attack is not about Pakistan. It is about Islam. Once again we see Muslims doing what their god told them to do: kill and be killed. Thats in the Quran, in case you don’t know. Look it up. Book 9 verse 111 (how ironic!).

These vile killers in Mumbai murder innocent peoople because of their religion — and Muslims everywhere pretend that Islam has nothing to do with the hate and violence we see everywhere Muslims go. Muslims kill because killing is the purest form of Islam — and they don’t care if they kill Muslims or infidels, as long as they kill and cause pain.

All you Muslims do is make excuses and blame others. In case you haven’t read your own traditions, Mohammad also attacked villages and caravans over 25 times (according to Tabarai), sent out dozens of raids more, plundered, murdered, tortured, enslaved men women and children, let his men rape and even beat Aisha… Yet Muslims say “praise be into him” after his name.

This may explain the attacks, the hate and violence done by Muslims. 8 years ago I couldn’t have cared less about Islam. Now I have read their Quran, ahadith, learned their doctrines, studied their history and watch how they treat others. I have nothing but contempt for them and their religion and their dear prophet. I have tried to dialogue with them but they refuse even to be honest about the most basic words in their own scriptures. Pathetic!

Obviously Muslim should be invited to live only in Islamic societies (since they can’t live with non-MUslims in peace). They should leave the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, India, etc… and move to Muslim countries where they can have their hate, sharia, murder, and beat their women for fun (Islamically, of course). The rest of the world would still have problems but much much less.

You can delete this now. Whatever you do, don’t think about the hate in the Quran or the violence that Islam teaches. Never question. Never think. Make excuses. Blame others.

Jose Kactuz

I am impressed with this very objective post by Teeth Maestro.It has generated a useful discussion.However I would here like to mention about report of this incident in another blog which I suspect is operating against the interest of Pakistan.It has a catchy name and is operated by one Adil Najm.The story he posts is total fabrication and silly.Such blogs should be closely monitored and scrutinized.The anti Pakistaniat may not be very obvious but it is there.He mentions that he visited and stayed at almost all the attacked sites in Bombay after he got married.I wonder who is the lucky man!!!

J Kactuz
What a selected study of Quran you have done ,I believe it was some pumphlet of hate race against Islam you read and thought let me take my steam out on MUSLIMS.
Well yes we are muslims and let me teach you one lesson from Quran which you have not read,PATIANCE AND TOLERANCE and ignore the stupids.
If your ideal world is without muslims,DEAR THAT IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.Creator has bigger plans than yours.

The amount of confusion and ignorance in India about Pakistan and Pakistanis is tremendous and harmful to both countries. Likewise in Pakistan, I’ve not found much of an accurate, frank understanding of India.

It’s not a question of identifying good and bad, but rather of creating and maintaining more people-to-people links.

We can see from the actions of a certain country in North America some examples of what can happen because of ignorance about other countries and peoples. No need to repeat that.

Increasing ties between professional organizations, cities-to-cities, schools-to-schools and in the athletic field will create win-win situations for everyone, economically, personally and politically. A little mutual hospitality goes a long way. Now is the time.

I would like to share few things:

1) Why government of India indicating finger towards Pakistan without proper investigation is because militant did so many foolish mistakes and for that there was not required any investigation.

2) You people (pakistani) trying to say that this brutal task is done by indins and not by pakistanies. then who hijacked indian plane at kandhahar? and where is all guys now who had got free?

3) And last thing i must say that you continue to defend pakistan and pakistani militants that is also my desire, at the end of your life you will got to know that you have got by your own people. and for that we are not intrested to spend our energy, we know how to live life better than u. and we know how to make India prosperous, and if u all people of pakistan will come to togather to fight with us, u will not win, so keep jehad going, dont send your children to school.

Recent incident at Mumbai is a recent example to explain this proverb.

What they have been doing Karachi,Kashmir,Assam, Afghanistan and now in Swat it is time to pay.

Look at western hippocracy since 1988 after Golden Temple incident and assasination of Indra Ghandi and Rajiv Ghandi and many other such incident specially in Mumbai it has never been considered unsafe for western tourist.

Just imagine 1 million britishers tourist ( NRI ) visit India but Because of MQM / Mafia killlings and Mujahidins / fundamenatlists Pakistan is unsafe………Why?

Look at Indian cricket team they are refusing to come to Pakistan because of security concerns and our ministers and politicians are begging please come please come……..do they have any shame.

Now England team is returning ……..security concerns.

I have serious doubts that this is what it seems Indians are going to put blame on Pakistan and will cry that because of Pakistani militant which are not controlled by so called democratic government and India need assurances from Pakistan and UN Security Council. I am very much sure that they are going to suggest and pressurise USA via Jew lobby that Nato forces should be in Pakistan and will deploy their army on our eastern borders………rest is very much obvious.

HINDU TERRIOSM IS OLDER AND BETTER WELL KNOWN THAN ISLAMIC TERROISM which a response and a cry in wilderness against atrocities carried out in Palistine, Iraq, Sudan, Afghanistan, Kashmir. Muslims are Defending themselves and they are very few and most of us are of Low Faith and cowards and beggers. Always giving excuses no this no that …

This time to call spade a spade.

AIK HOON MUSLIM HARUM KI PASBANI KAY LIYA
NEEL KAY SAHIL SAY LAA KAR TA BA KHA KAY KASGHAR

NEW DELHI, Nov 17 (Reuters) – Reports that Hindu militants may be involved in bomb attacks first blamed on Islamists may open a Pandora’s Box for India’s beleaguered security services and become a key voter issue before general elections next year.

At least 10 people, including a serving army officer and a Hindu monk and nun, have been arrested over alleged involvement in blasts in the Muslim-dominated town of Malegaon in western Maharashtra state that killed four people.

The same Indian army officer is being investigated over a bomb attack in February 2007 that killed 68 people on the Samjhauta Express, a train between Delhi and Lahore, police said. The attack killed mostly Pakistani passengers.

The reports have proved an embarrassment for the main opposition Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) as it prepares to take on the Congress-led government in both state elections this year and general elections in early 2009.

The BJP has been quick to criticise the Congress-led government for being soft on terrorism when it involves Muslims or Pakistan, but critics say it has been less willing to call for a clampdown on Hindu groups in the face of the latest allegations.

“In the wake of daily arrests of… (Hindu)… terror outfits, the BJP stood exposed,” senior Congress leader Veerappa Moily told the Mail Today. “They cannot take a high moral ground.”

While Islamists are suspects in many other attacks this year, the spectre of Hindu terrorist groups haunts many in India, which emerged from a traumatic partition in 1947 when hundreds of thousands were killed in religious clashes.

IS THIS CLEAR!!!!!!!!!!

@Sajjad: “Demolition of the Golden Temple”?

Anthony
Thanks for your comments.
Human to human relationship is so important ,
Thats what I thought recently on another blog I had quite an honest and frank political discussions with Indian people including Kashmir and suddenly I feel that since this attack ,they have shut out all reasoning ,even they think HUMANITY,FRIENDSHIP are just slogans.
I work in the Hospitality Industry in London,lived through
7/7 bombing ,Marriot happened my reaction was different,it was of a Pakistani person feeling ,sad,sorrowful and bad.
When TAJ and OBEROI are attacked it has affected me in another way.
It means terrorist have now this trend maybe if it is the right word, to attack Hotels.
One of my colleague who is from India lost his two friends working in Taj.

This act of terrorism has affected me in another way,although I am a muslim,but does the Indian people want to listen this how it affected me,I am shocked to discover no.Do they want to understand why I want to share my concern with them.

Suddenly I am not included in the humanity camp.
As long as Indians are singing they are superpower and their economy is booming ,they are fine,they have humanity and friendship ,as soon as there is some crises ,all evil is Pakistanis and Muslims.
Have they learnt from the DEVIDE OF 1947???
Pakistan government showed extreme responsibility when Marriot happened we could have blame it on India straight away but we wanted to do theinvestigation first.
What is Indian Government doing.Chief Minister is pointing towards Pakistan,Media for past ten years is feeding people ,behind all voilence it is PAKISTAN,heads of Indian Underworld are supported by Pakistan.”
The thing is INDIA although has become a super power has been to moon,one thing which I have learnt from living in UK that is the uniformity and understanding of people on basic human rights and human issues,be it Ire-land,Scotland,England,Wales or be it a small village.
The differences and hatred and small mindedness of India ,THE SO CALLED DEMOCRACY of the world is a MOCKRY a slap on the face of human rights,equality an dthey are not ready to accept others,human beings,this is the basic thing.
In Pakistan our psyche is not very different from them
but because we live in a country which is 80% muslims so we have accepted the rest of the world has different religions like CHINA,INDIA<RUSSIA and Europe and we respect that.
But the Indian mind is still very closed same as at the
time of 1947.Their prejudice is not over and it would not because they see Muslims,Christians,Budhists as invaders.
Only twenty to thirty percent people fom india can relate to what my response to Terrorism in INDIA this time is.
Those Twenty percent are Business community .
I WAS EXPECTING INdia to act more responsibly,Pakistanis are not reacting to war of words but would India stop there ,India has already started a tight build up against Pakistani borders,
What if Terrorists were Bangalis?Tamil Tigers,or what if They were Hindus?
WE ARENOT ASKING FOR WAR<neither of words nor of bullets our President has already exploited his resources to the worst .
If it is Martial Law comming in Pakistan and at the same time if Pakistan have to fight with Millitants in AFghanistan and with India .
If it is a game to buildup Political or pshchological pressure on Pakistanis,before Kashmir Settlement ,Zardari can come under pressure not Pakistani people.
If we have martial law this time,reponsibility is INDIA.

@ Mumbaikar

Akal Takht in the Golden Temple complkex in Amritsar was badly damaged during Operation Blue Star.

@ J Kactuz

Read about the Conquest of Mecca during the Holy Prohet’s (pbuh) time. The people who had been persecuting him and the Muslims for years were given a general pardon. Also read about the crudases and the events that unfolded Muslims captured Jerusalem under Salahuddin Ayubi. Once again a general pardon was issued. Also read about what happened when Christians captured it. The blood in the streets came up to the knees. Also, please answer why Jews took shelter in Muslim lands during the inquisition in Europe. The Muslim world has always allowed every religion to exist reacefully in its realm. No other religious empire can make such a claim. As for the situation these days, how many countries have been occupied by Muslim invaders? Every where in the world, foreign invaders have disrespected boundaries of Muslim countries. Do you think this doesn’t warrant a reaction? I do not endorse targeting of innocent people in any way but I the current dismal state of Muslims would mislead a minute part of the population.

As far as the Mumbai crisis is concerned, let the dust settle and then make a judgement. Already conflicting reports are surfacing.

http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2008/11/29/evidence-being-deliberately-ignored/

I don’t think Pakistan has anything to do with the attacks in the face of already troubled environment contained within its borders. It would be instead an obvious mistake to do it especially at a time once its running after getting financial aid from international orgs. What seems obvious is that western powers have much more interests vested in this whole scenario (cause if a war breaks out between the two countries would boost the arms sales).. Its virtually pointless to prematurely target Pakistan because it has become a fashion that wherever the evil Al Qaida / terror strikes people rather than professionally investigating the matter down to the core, try to save face by hiding behind such arguments such as it must have been done under the supervision of Pakistan.. come on now guys!! grow up..

Dear Sjjad and Farrukh,

Well said. But we have to say it loud.
Problem with us that we are muslims, good or bad, we have to abide by some rules laid done by Allah and his Messenger Mohammed pbuh.

We cannot spread rumours and we are not allowed put accusations till we have prove. But look at all these non Muslims soon any thing happens muslims did it Pakistan did it or there is a Pakistani link.

Just minutes after attack on Mumbai when they even didnot knew what’s going on they found ” Concrete” evidence that pakistan is involved and even their Prime minister blamed.

That showed hindu/indian mentality. Now they are blaming UK as well.

They forgot Faridkot is in India which supposed to be in Pakistan in 1947 but because Nehru was sleeping with viceroys of india’s wife ( An historical fact ) then Britisher’s has give back something in return as gesture of thanks.

Mr Anthony Indian/Hindu has hunger for Money they can sell anything for that.. before 1947 ..they were singing with Britishers then during cold war with USSR as they could provide them cheap technology deals now they are sitting in lap of USA because they are in power.

Pakistani has always had same friends they helped people and nations when they were inneed e.g. Saudi Arabia, UAE PRE OIL ERA, CHINA KOREAetc
The only mistake our politicians did was tokeep USA as friend.But Americans are not even friends to their own KINS.

Allama Iqbal said for these 10 boys longtime ago

AY GHAZI THERAY YA PUR ISRAR BUBAY
JINHAY THOO NAY BAKHSHA HAY ZOOK E ELLAHI
DO NEEM IN KI TOHKAR SAY SARAH O DARIA
SIMUT KAR PAHAAR IN KI HABAAUT SAY RAI.

Proverb in my earlier comment is

“WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND”

A COPY OF A BLOG WELL POINTED OUT

t is surprising that even if the so called ‘terrorists’ were Pakistani trained SSG commandos as alleged by many Indian members, I’m surprised how 12 men could besiege two major hotels for such a long while.

The hold ups were so well planned and executed with such precision!

Were all hotel security measures mere proxies?

Plus, 12 men vs. 1200 Indian security forces (involving everyone from Indian ATF to serving Indian Commandos) – the assault went on for almost 60 hrs!

Wow, isn’t that rather shocking? 12 men vs. 1200 (with all helicopters/equipment etc.)? And yet such a long battle for the takeover by Indian authorities?

Either the alleged Pakistani trained commandos are at least 100 times superior to the combined force of the Indian forces A to Z or this was merely a drama orchestrated by the intelligence agencies in India to achieve ulterior motives in future – (just like the 9/11 was used as the Wild Card by the CIA to attack Afghanistan & Iraq).

Some of which is quite clear and has been repeatedly mentioned and identified by different Pakistani sources.

So here are the two possibilities:

1. If it is proved that these 12 men were in fact Pakistani trained, then Indians should be ashamed of their armed commandos who took 60 hours to clear out 12 men and should accept their inferiority when it comes to real time combat.

2. If not, then Indians need to buckle up for a rough ride. There’s an evil within their country that they’ll have to fight and bring into limelight. RAW, by staging this drama, will indirectly be responsible for the massacre of almost 200 Indian citizens and another 300 casualties just to make way to achieve its hidden motives behind the whole drama.

Let’s see how it unveils.

Made And Produced In India

Published : November 28, 2008 | Author : George Fernandez
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Made And Produced In India

India trains all sorts of peoples, from terrorists to militants to fanatics, to suit its national and international needs. But in order to cover up its nefarious activities it focuses on Islam, Muslims, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia, Hajj, etc.; and blames its neighbors. Indian intelligence agencies are frustrated over the strong lobbying for highlighting Kashmir human rights violations at international forums by some NGOs in Europe and U.S., with the support of Indian human rights and peace activists. A huge lot of resources are being wasted on propaganda purposes by Indian government directly throughout the world.

By George N. Fernandez
Friday, 28 November 2008.
http://WWW.AHMEDQURAISHI.COM

MUMBAI, India—The police investigation into the synchronized September 29 bombing attacks in Malegaon, a city in the west Indian state of Maharashtra, and Madosa, in the neighboring state of Gujarat, has rattled India’s political establishment. The police have thus far arrested 11 people, while indicating that others, potentially many others, may yet be implicated in what they have termed an “extensive” Hindu-extremist terror network.

The arrested include a lieutenant colonel attached to the Indian Army’s Military Intelligence Corps and a retired army major.

Two of the suspects, a Hindu sadhu (holy man) and a sadhvi (holy woman), have long-standing and extensive contacts with prominent politicians and businessmen. All of the alleged principals in the bombing plot have ties to one or more of India’s major “Hindu-nationalist” [the term is used by the Anglo-American media; the real term should be terrorist] organizations: the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), the official opposition in India’s parliament, the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP, World Hindu Council), and the Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh or RSS.

Terrorism and Territory

Armed with latest weapons, “democratic” India occupies Kashmir forcefully, killing thousands of Kashmiri Muslims. India tactfully annexed its neighbor Kashmir, heavily militarized it and killed the freedom fighting Kashmiris and also branded them as “terrorists” and “cross-border-terrorists”. On top of that, India accuses Pakistan and Bangladesh of training “terrorists” against “innocent” India.

India trains all sorts of peoples, from terrorists to militants to fanatics to suit its national and international needs. But in order to cover up its nefarious activities it focuses on Islam, Muslims, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia, Hajj, etc. blames its neighbors and Indian intelligence agencies are frustrated over the strong lobbying for highlighting the Kashmir human rights violations at international forums by some NGO’s working in Europe and USA with the support of Indian human rights and peace activists. A huge lot of resources are being wasted on propaganda purposes by Indian government directly throughout its missions and various NGOs and other secret agencies the world over, including the Arab World. But it makes strenuous efforts to see that Muslims in India and Kashmir do not make any anti-India propaganda by placing before the world the real situation in the country.

The intelligence wings in India have marked the Indian Muslims into different categories. The major chunk of Muslims is described as “terrorists”, spies and agents of Pakistan, Kashmir and Bangladesh. In order to create make-believe strings, they link the freedom fighting Kashmiris abroad and their media supporters to Pakistani intelligence in order to rob the Kashmiri cause of legitimacy and put Pakistan on the defensive.

Christian Killings in India is
Hindu Fundamentalism

Thousands of terrified Indian Christians are hiding in the forests of Orissa while Hindu fundamentalists burn their homes and kill them without any real reason.

What actually is happening in India is that mobs are targeting churches, orphanages and homes of Christians. Officially, more then two hundred people have now been reported dead and twenty of them were deliberately burned to death in the aftermath of the murder of Hindu leader Lakshmananada Saraswati [unofficial figures have reached 600]. The Christians in India are terrified they left their homes and are taking shelter in forests.

A Christian religious leader said that even in the forests they are not safe. This is not the first time that we are seeing religious hatred in India, in the past we can see examples of Muslims being targeted and the violence cannot be explained in words. There has been very little or no Anglo-American media coverage. The western media outlets are generous enough to give India’s domestic Hindu extremists the label of religious fundamentalism not terrorism.

In the state of Chhattisgarh, four sisters were attacked and abused. In Jharkhand, Hindu fundamentalists attacked a church and tried to “reconvert” the Christian faithful. Four churches have been damaged in Kerala, Tamil Nadu, and Madhya Pradesh. In New Delhi, two churches have been damaged, and another four attacked. In Punjab, three Christians have been detained by the police under false accusations. In Uttar Pradesh, three pastors have been beaten, together with the wife of one of them. In Uttarakhand, two Christians have been killed, a priest and his employee.

Anti-Sikh riots of 1984

Thousands of Sikhs were killed in a government-planned genocide. Government officials, politicians and police openly participated. Innocent people were burned alive, women and young girls raped. Yet, there has been no justice.

When Sikhs chose to be part of India, it was promised that they would have an autonomous state where they could learn their own language and go about their own religion. To date, three religions, Sikhism, Buddhism and Jainism continue to be forcibly listed as sects of Hinduism in the Indian constitution, so that their followers are not given their due rights.

2002 Gujarat violence

Hundreds of mosques and other Muslim shrines were damaged or destroyed and makeshift Hindu temples were installed in their place in some cases. In Ahmedabad, the dargah of the Sufi saint-poet Wali Gujarati in Shahibaug and the 16th century Gumte Masjid (mosque) in Isanpur were destroyed. The Muhafiz Khan Masjid at Gheekanta was ransacked. Police records list 298 dargahs, 205 mosques, 17 temples and three churches as damaged in the months of March and April, 2002.

According to Human Right Watch estimate, 2,500 Muslims were killed in anti-Muslim riots in Gujrt in 2002. Some 1,223 Muslims were reported missing, 3,548 injured, 1,919 women widowed and 2,606 children orphaned.

An international fact finding committee formed by experts from U.S., U.K., France, Germany and Sri Lanka reported that “sexual violence was being used as a strategy for terrorizing women belonging to minority communities in the state.

MUMBAI November 26, 2008

India always prides itself on being a democracy, yet human rights are violated every single day. It is time to raise our voices, and show enough is enough. The Indian government has supported the killing of Dalits, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians and many other groups. November 26, 2008, Mumbai attack may be a reaction of killing of innocent people by Indian security forces.

Current security situation is the result of the governments’ (past and present) poor handling of matters. Indian Government & Media will try to cash this attack and will start killing of innocent Muslims & minorities in India again. I am also confident on my prediction that India will blame Pakistan, ISI & Kashmiris.

Making indiscriminate arrests of innocent Muslim youth, producing new “master minds” every 24 hours, presenting arrested persons before the media with faces covered with the traditional checkered headscarves — worn by Arabs and Muslims, producing sensational background information are all wrong signals that could damage the communal harmony and alienate the minorities.

The terrorism has not spilled over to India from Pakistan rather India is involved in criminal sets of terrorism in Pakistan. If you see the timings of Mumbai attack you will notice that on 26 November, 2008 Court martial proceedings started against a retired Lieutenant-General (Lt Gen (retd) S K Sahni) on corruption charges for allegedly procuring poor quality food items for troops fighting insurgency in Jammu and Kashmir four years ago.

Recent Mumbai attacks were preplanned, well organized and very professional. These were carried out by local Indian groups & Indian Intelligence agencies to convert the attention of Indian & world media from the court martial proceedings.

Please forward the email (see the evidence in the attached pictures one and two). The world should know how Hindus treat Muslims, Sikhs, Christians and other minorities in India.

The author is based in Mumbai, India, and is an Indian citizen from a minority religion that has seen up to 600 people dead this summer. He wishes not to publish his email address.

© 2007-2008. All rights reserved. AhmedQuraishi.com & PakNationalists
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[...] Awab Alvi at Teeth Maestro says: What has also sadly transpired within the following day is that the ‘official’ blame game [...]

Politicians and religious leaders in India/Pakistan are all the same. Yes there are examples of atrocities against Minorities in India but on other hand India has seen a Muslim President, A Sikh prime minister and a Christian head of ruling party all at same time. There are too many prominent Muslims and Christians in India. Even in US Obama had to give explanations 100s of times that he has forgotten his Islamic roots and is a devout Christian, which is not the case in India.

On condition of minority, condition of poor Hindus and poor minorities is all the same. I have Muslim and Kashmiri friends who are working in software companies in India and living a great life. But ratio wise Muslims there are more poor Muslims than Hindus.
Reason is not discrimination against them. Reason is that they listen to religious leaders, prefer study in Madarsas and not in newer school, want to stick to hardline interpretations of Quran (Yes I have read translations of Quran and Bible. Quran has striking similarity with Bible but educated Christians, Hindu and Muslims have moved ahead of hardliner views. But issue here is Muslims are much more devoted to religion than any other community. They get inspired by religious leaders much more than others. They prefer not going against religion even if they have to suffer themselves. That is what is exploited by religious leaders to fulfill their own ambitions.
This is not my analysis this is what i got from Muslim friends and one of them is rehabilitated Kashmiri, now a successful engineer living in UK from an Indian company.

Neither Hindus treat Muslims badly nor the other way round. It’s a fraction of Hindus and Muslims who under influence of hardliner leaders do this. And that is known to world, that such fraction among Muslims is higher than Hindus.

Have you gone into real reasons for Orrisa christian attacks. Bible asks Christians to spread religion and convert people to Christianity. Missionary there provide food, education and medical benefits to people. This helps people a lot and improves there quality of life. After some time they restrict these facilities to only Christians and ask people to convert. Nothing wrong in this but is unethical. Should Hindu organization attack them?
Instead of spending money on goons, start uplifting people there and if you can’t and those guys can live better life as Christians why shouldn’t they?
I really hope for a world, not without religions, but one where all religions can live in harmony. I like US capitalist culture here, everyone thinks of his own, how can I live better life. In contrast to Europe and some portions of Central US, religion is followed but is a guiding force and not one which regulates life.
While both in India and Pakistan there is a huge population both Hindus and Muslims, who instead of thinking on their own improvement work for not letting other prosper and grow. Each community gets equal oppurtunity in India and Muslims being minority gets reservations at many places. There are Muslims who have grown utilising these oppurtunities and and a large number of if not all of those who have not benefited, have themselves to blame.
Why does India blame Pakistan without investigation? Because involvement of Pakistan based groups in previous attacks is beyond doubt. LeT, Hizbul are based in Pak. Azhar Mashood released after Kandhar hijack gave several interviews from Pak. Dawood ibrahim, master mind of 93 blasts and a smuggler lives in Pak and his son is married to Miandad’s daughter.
Doesn’t mean that Pakistani elements are still involved but if you know a person who has a track record and an incidence happen, who will you blame first? Pakistan itself has to work on improving its own image and current steps being taken by Zardari seems to be helping.
I have Pakistani friends and my father is 47 immigrant from Bannu. I wish we can attain a soft borders between India and Pakistan and people can move freely. Both India and Pakistan will be able to focus more on improving quality of life of poor rather than spending on huge defense budgets. Losers in turn will be Russia and USA who will lose their big clients of warfare.

Ashish
Thanks for reaching out and writing.It has given me a lot of hope.
On the issue of religion,I am muslim and practicing muslim.Sometimes I just wonder what is a difference between me and a fundamentalist;the difference is huge,that difference is humanity.
Human approach some how in Asia towards religion is , we have stopped to approach the human beings.Why this has happened ?You have provided the answer yourself,politicians and religious preachers.
Religion for long has been used as a tool to be used for votes,to help corrupt politicians.
RELIGION IN BOTH COUNTRIES SHOULD BE SEPARTED FROM POLITICS
unless that happens we cannot act and react as a human being.
One good thing I have seen is that people ar trying to rise above themselves and are trying to reachout at a human level.IT SEEMS THE TRAGEDY OF INDIA AND PAKISTAN IS WE HAVE OUT OF DATE POLITICIANS,who cannot motivate people to rise above themselves but instead drag people down.
Politics ,religion why we become so hyper and why we become so emotional including me ??
WELL I HOPE IF WE WANT PEACE WE HAVE TO GET RID OF STUPID LEADERS,be they of ethnic minority or Religion.
Votes should be only for human prosperity.Terrorism is a completly different and International phenomenon.
HERE I WOULD SAY THANKS FOR GIVING ME HOPE <HUMANITY CAN RISE BEYOND BORDERS

I think this is not the time to blame Pakistan as this could result in tension between India and Pakistan. I am think that the Indian government and media needs to act little more maturely and responsibly. We have seen on several occasions in past when India has blamed Pakistan and Pakistan’s intelligence service but on all those occasions it turned out that the Indian army, police or some security or intelligence agency was responsible for attacks in their own country. These revelations came out of Indian government’s own investigative reports. These are facts which can be checked and not just made up stories as Indian government and press seem to be familiar with! We all want peace, harmony and prosperity. If a neighbouring country is instable, it can cause instability in the whole region. Therefore, both Pakistan and India need to work together to find the culprits and bring them to justice.

A clarification here, Indian Govt has not blamed Pakistan as state. It has claimed that few Pakistani nationals along with Indian Nationals are involved. To which even Zardari has agreed that there is a possibility that people responsible for attacks in Pakistan may be involved. But media sensationalizes it and use ‘Pakistan’ instead of ‘Pakistani Nationals’. It’s like saying India is involved in child abuse in when a fashion designer of Indian origin was caught.

did any one read the earth shaster of chanakia?

Hi guys,

I am from India. First let me respond to the actual post from Teeth Maestro. I appreciate your concerns abt Mumbai and I am sure you said that from heart.

Regarding the political blame game. India has every right to point finger at Pakistan for this attack because of the following evidence, which not even the best advocate in the world can defend in any court with a judge with 1% common sense.

1, Terrorists came via sea route from karachi
2, They hijacked a fishing vessel and beheaded the innocent fisherman.
3, They killed 2 coast guard officers
4, The captured terrorist is from Faridcot, he has confirmed his Let Links clearly
5, The blackberries and GPS system they used was checked and Phone was used to call Lashkar Commander in Muzaffarabad (Yusuf Muzamil). The GPS shows their route from pakistan.

Pakistan cannot deny Let’s involvement in this. We all know the connection between ISI and LET.

See we can control the stupid saffron terror outfits here, we have taken actions against them. But unfortunately pakistan’s democratic government is powerless in the hands of ISI and powerful sections in Army. There is no doubt that pakistan has become the launching pad of terrorists. Howabt Davood Ibrahim roaming freely in Pakistan. So it is clear that the democratic government has no control there and they do not have power to control ISI, evidenced by the latest news that Mr Zardari, gone back and said ISI chief is not going to visit India. So who is in charge there, ISI or Mr. president.?

Sorry guys, this has gone way too far. India has been patient till Mumbai attack. Considering the evidences and public anger towards the lack of action from the government India is forced to act. Unless pakistani government take stern actions such as arresting the lakshar leaders, handover of davood and controlling the anti national elements in ISI, we are in for something very bad. Lets all pray to avoid a war.

see!
these guys behaving like a spokespersons of indian government.is isn’t the time came to ask for an explanation of their role in terorrist activities in balochistan, FATA and other areas of the paksitan.
we had many doomsdays. countless loss of innocent lives with thousands of grieved families suffering from financial problems and no body pointed fingers against india.
why we are dying for good relations with india at any cost?…. isn’t time to change our approach in international relations.what about the relations with dignity and honor?
isn’t the time has come to keep aside our personal feelings and enthusiaism for having good relations with india and keep focus on our national interests and our security.

@ Ajith

I am sure the Indian authorities haven’t looked hard enough. If they recheck they might even find ISI security cards in the debris. Maybe they’ll discover a printout of an email sent from General Kayani detailing every aspect of the plan to the officers who perpetrated the actual act.

This is ridiculous!

I know it has gone too far. India shamelessly points fingers at Pakistan to try to cover up the massive failures at its end. Not once have Indian authorities given credible evidence and investigations have always revealed internal sources. There are at least five such incidents, the Parliament Attack and Samjhota Express blasts being the most prominent.

My dear it is easy to externalise problems than to face them. Please get your head out of your ass and read what Indian minority writers are saying about India. Your media and government can keep up the image of Shining India but it’s not going to put an end to the turmoil beneath this chic veneer.

These Indians are at least right in that

OUR politicians are A… lickers.

I tell if this has been Army Government these coward Indians would not have courage to threat us because those Mujahids would have replied in actions.

WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.

This is a coverup for blast investigation going on in which an army col. and minister is involved.

These guys are as ignorent as their Government is.

Sign of immaturity and weakness is to put blame on somone on mere e.g.
if a child breaks something first he cries aloud and then start beating someone and says he pushed me

This is what all indians are doing blaming someone they can.Being a muslim we want peace and to convey Allah’s message.We are to not force whats happening in FATA we have people caught who are Hindus(disguised as Taliban) but we have not made it issue we are investigating are these RAW paid deploys or BJP we could have done same After Marriot when most of evidence linked to India.

What we did was that we looked at our own inner weaknesses.

To Ashish we cannot take politics from religion because this gives us tells us how to live life in harmony. Islam tells us to love and sacrifice and not love ownself.

I want to convey a message to All my fellow Indians

Non muslims’s life end when they die and a muslim’s life begins after death.

Do Aalam Say Karti Hay Beghana Dil Ko
Ajab Cheez Hay Lazat e Aashnai

Shahdat Hay Matloob o Maqsood e Momin
Na Mal e Ghaneemat Na Kishwar Kusha

If this war begins it will be third world war and will not end at least in your lifetime

Prophet Muhammad’s Last Sermon
Date delivered: 632 A.C., 9th day of Dhul al Hijjah, 10 A.H. in the ‘Uranah valley of Mount Arafat.

After praising, and thanking God, he said: “O People, listen well to my words, for I do not know whether, after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and TAKE THESE WORDS TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE PRESENT HERE TODAY.

O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Treat others justly so that no one would be unjust to you. Remember that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that HE will indeed reckon your deeds. God has forbidden you to take usury (riba), therefore all riba obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital , however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer inequity. God has judged that there shall be no riba and that all the riba due to `Abbas ibn `Abd al Muttalib shall henceforth be waived.

Every right arising out of homicide in pre-Islamic days is henceforth waived and the first such right that I waive is that arising from the murder of Rabi`ah ibn al Harith ibn `Abd al Muttalib.

O Men, the Unbelievers indulge in tampering with the calendar in order to make permissible that which God forbade, and to forbid that which God has made permissible. With God the months are twelve in number. Four of them are sacred, three of these are successive and one occurs singly between the months of Jumada and Sha`ban. Beware of the devil, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.

O People, it is true that you have certain rights over your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under God’s trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Treat your women well and be kind to them, for they are your partners and committed helpers. It is your right and they do not make friends with anyone of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste…

O People, listen to me in earnest, worship God (The One Creator of the Universe), perform your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadan, and give your financial obligation (zakah) of your wealth. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.

Remember, one day you will appear before God (The Creator) and you will answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

O People, NO PROPHET OR MESSENGER WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I am leaving you with the Book of God (the QUR’AN*) and my SUNNAH (the life style and the behavioral mode of the Prophet), if you follow them you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness O God, that I have conveyed your message to your people.

*The Qur’an: Revealed to Prophet Muhammad during the period from 610-632 AC. The first five verses revealed are: (1) Read in the name of your Lord, Who created. (2) Created man out of a clot that clings (in the womb). (3) Read and your Lord is the Most Bountiful. (4) Who taught by the pen. (5) Taught man that which he knew not.

This what we are doing, spreading truth

1.Hindus Sati( burn alive) women defame them ( fashion film prostitution) in name of good time, westernization and we give them right and respect.

2.We do not take riba(interest) hindus, jews, capatalist thrive on it ,bleeding poor people.

3. we have months of peace which is now and was on 26/11

4. HINDUS and other spread Caste system ,west live with social classes and status but Muslim believe in no one superior or inferior all men are equal difference is their piety and righteous action

This is Politics of Islam – PEACE AND PROTECT.

But rest assure all INDIANS and disbelivers we keep striving and told to act if someone forces ZULAM on us.

1000 yrs ago Mohammed Bin Qasim came and won India both with sword and hearts though very few in number

Mahmmod Ghaznavi did same. Now many QASIM AND GHAZNAVI live in subcontinent DONOT DARE TO WAKE THEM UP.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

Yeh Ghazi Yeh Tere Purisrar Banday
Jinhein Tu Nay Bakhsha Hay Zoq Khudai

Do Neem, In Ki Thokar Say Sehra o Darya
Simat Kar Pahar In Ki Haybat Say Rai

Do Aalam Say Karti Hay Beghana Dil Ko
Ajab Cheez Hay Lazat e Aashnai

Shahdat Hay Matloob o Maqsood e Momin
Na Mal e Ghaneemat Na Kishwar Kushai

Khaiban Mein Hay Muntazar Lala Kab Say
Qaba Chahaey Is Ko Khoon e Arab Say

Kia Tu Nay Sehra Nasheeno Ko yakta
Khabar Mein, Nazar Mein, Azan Sehar Mein

Talab Jis Ki Saddion Say Thi Zindgi Ko
Wo Soz Is Nay Paya Inhein Kay Jigar Mein

Kushad e Dar Dil Samjthay Hein Is Ko
Halaqat Nahi Mot In Ki Nazar Mein

Dil Mard Momim Mein Phir Zinda Kar Day
Wo Bijli Kay Thi Nara La Tazar Mein

Azaim Ko Seenon Mein Baidar Kar Day
Nigha e Musalman Ko Talwar Kar day

FYI

Indian troops started moving to border, hope u remember the last two wars we fought, when we both were almost equal and still we humiliated ur spineless forces. Now India is far more superior and we are backed by other nations as well. Keep praying to Allah. I don’t think even he can help u guys :)

@mumbai
SSISSIESsssssssssssssssss

@ mumbai

Some superior army you have. Your elite NSG and Black Kat commandos couldnt control 12 insurgents.

who went running to the UN after the 65 war?

” NASR UM MIN ALLAH E WA FATEH UL KAREEB ”

I THINK YOUR GOVERNMENT AND MEDIA TOLD YOU SAME ABOUT KARGIL..HMM

Ask Wajpai why he ran to daddy AMERICA….
plz tell Musharaf to stop they are killing us.

IN 1971 we were not beaten by you we went more than 100 -50 miles at many places but we were beaten within and as usual UN intervened and told us to give ur land back.

WE dont need any nation we need Allah’s support if any doubt come and see

SHAAHDAT HAY MATLOOB O MAQSOOD E MOMIN

NA MALEY GHANIMAATT NA KISHWAR KUSHAI

I warn you this time it is true jihad we have been quiet for some time and suffered a lot.

There are a few things which remain unanswered but time will tell who was behind these attacks….However I would like to ask a few questions about the following

1)Choice of targets:
- Who would benefit from targetting foreigners, high profile business men/executives?
- Was it a message to the western world? What was the message that seems to be getting conveyed- India isn’t safe for you? Go back?
- If so, in whose backyard is one of the most vile, obnoxious and militant outfit prospering?
- Why was Nariman house chosen? Why are the bodies of the Jewish victims the worst tortured?
- Who has a history of animosity with the Jews?
- If it was perpetrated by Hindu right wing- Why didn’t they target Haji Ali, Grant Road or Mahim? Their supposed targets have always been Muslims or Christian missionaries not foreigners!
- They don’t have anything to gain out of framing Pakistan- Coz their message is pretty clear- don’t suppress the majority by pandering to the minorities..No matter how I look at the events that just doesn’t seem to come across

2) Timing of attack:
- If the idea was to cause maximum damage why did the attacks start at 10:00 PM and not at 6:00-7:00PM IST (which is peak time)?
- was it a “convenient” coincidence that it was timely enough for the western media to pick it up?

3) Sophistication of attacks:
- Would the likes of Lt Purohit have access to Sat phones, marine training, latest weapons and gadgets which Mumbai police doesn’t seem to have? Media raised a huge hue and cry about the inadequacy of the equipment with our forces
- Even if they had access to all the money in the world where were these 10 bastards trained? Only a few countries come to mind which house terrorist training schools!

4) Identity of the terrorists
- Fidayeen, Jihad are well revered concepts in Islam…In Hinduism its believed that anyone who dies an untimely death is destined to remain in between worlds and never passes on…so even if the Hindu right wing tried to recruit people to carry out such attacks- there would be very few takers!
- With a population of 1 billion+ and ~70% Hindus why did the right wing have to import people from Karachi in Pakistan?
Something just doesn’t add up!

4) History
- Attacks on Akshardham, Indian Parliament, Bombay Bomb blasts of ‘93 are a few examples of heinous acts carried out by Pakistani residents and/or Pakistan based outfits

No one is saying that the Pakistani Government is directly involved in this attack, Pakistani National-Yes; Pakistan based Outfits- resounding Yes!

So I would much rather believe my Govt when it points fingers at Pakistan rather than the commentators in this forum- because even with my basic logical reasoning the evidence is highly stacked against Pakistan!

http://indianmuslims.in/a-letter-to-the-last-standing-terrorist/

A Letter To The Last Standing Terrorist
Written by Mohib Ahmad · November 28, 2008 · 2,166 views (15 votes, average: 4.53 out of 5)
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Last Standing Terrorist,

I hope you get to read this letter at the gates of hell where your fellow murderers are awaiting you. I would love to see the look at your face when you will be told that you are not a martyr as your valiantly claimed on the phone call but just a cowardly murderer who killed innocent people. Talking of phone calls, whom were you trying to fool by speaking in a Punjabi/Kashmiri accent while claiming to be from Hyderabad?

It was not surprising to see you use the oldest trick in the world, religion, as a justification of your dastardly acts. It was, however, quite ironical to see a terrorist having just killed scores of innocent people wanting to promote his religion as a religion of refuge and safety. You actually caused much more harm to the religion you claim to profess than anyone else could ever do from outside. Don’t you see that the religion you claim to be fighting for does not has space for people like you? No wonder you were panicked at the recent congregation of Islamic clerics denouncing terrorism and accused them as sell-outs.

As for your blabber about the injustice meted out to the Indian Muslim community, well listen – we don’t want you or any of your murderous fellow thugs talking on our behalf. Babri Masjid, Gujarat, Malegaon and Kashmir are not Indian Muslim problems – these are Indian problems. And we as a nation are capable enough of resolving these issues. We might fall on our way, make mistakes or have serious disagreements but we will find solutions as a nation.

The idea of India is too strong for terrorists like you to have any impact. It has stood the test of time over centuries and has not only survived but progressed. We will overcome this crisis as well – together.

Meanwhile, godspeed to hell to you and good riddance!

Mohib Ahmad

pathetic indians with pathetic fallacies
inspite of solving their problems they always blame their neighbors for wrong doings of their own.
they promote genocide and ethnic cleansing and expect peace.
pathetic indians with pathetic fallacies

Indian
“No one is saying that the Pakistani Government is directly involved in this attack, Pakistani National-Yes; Pakistan based Outfits- resounding Yes!”
THINK AGAIN
first it was British of PAksitani origin,than it was Pakistanis and now
Pakistani National-Yes; Pakistan based Outfits- resounding Yes!”

so wats the point you are making?
if its abt the semantics..i am sorry you have lost me…

Just to clarify..What i was saying is maybe Zardari/Geelani did not mastermind the attack..theyd be extremely foolish to do so…..but still there are terrorist organizations which are openly flourishing in Pakistan (hence Pakistani outfits)..with the govt turning a blind eye…Since thats a govt you put in office..their actions are going to get equated with the voice of Pakistan!

The 10 terorists definitely have links to Pakistan..whether be their nationality, the training the received, the support, the resources…just looking at the facts/events without even venturing into evidence presented by our agencies-all point in one direction-Pakistan!

@ Indian

You are the only one who finds your own arguments “logical.”

Choice of targets:

What would Pakistanis get out of targetting foreigners in India. Why would they want to send them back? Its more likely that people within India especially naxalites would attck such a group as they do not agree with the capitalist policies of India. Further as Indians like you think that Pakistanis have a problem with Indians so in that case why did they target foreigners’ residences.

How the f*** did militant groups know that there were Jews in Nariman House? Now you will say ISI is involved. But you yourself said that Pakistan is not involved only Pakistani groups. Make up your mind! Again seems more likely that it was a group from within India.

My dear a lot of Muslims were killed in these attcks. I think more than 50. Plus extremist groups in India have tried to frame Pakistan before as well so this is not the first time. Please read your own history!

Timing of the attack:

Coverage by western media would suit any group. How does this establish that the group was Pakistani?

Sophistication of Attacks:

Purohit had access to highly explosive RDX, the things you mentioned would have been no problem. Meri jaan you can buy satallite phones and mobiles in the market. What other “gadgets” have you found? And I think you have not read the report on the military personnel found to be involved with Hindi terrorist outfits. BAJRANG DAL EXTREMISTS WERE GIVEN ACCESS TO ABANDONED INDIAN ARMY TRAINING CAMPS.

Identity of Terrorist:

Jihad is well revered in Islam but targeting innocent people is strongly criticized. A vast majority of Muslims condemn the terrorist Islamic outfits. And who says the terrorists were imported from Karachi? You actually believe that crap? How did terrorists, who had just gotten of the boat, know the details of the city and even had access to the blue prints of the Hotels? Even Mr. Tata (owner of the Taj) raised this question on CNN.

History:

There is also history of internal terrorism in India. Why are you forgetting that?

Your post tells me that either you are wither very young or your mind has been blocked by your emotions. Your media keeps contradicting itself and your government keeps contradicting your media. A few sane and well journalists have already criticised the role of the Indian media. Wait for the dust to settle and then make your argumets.

http://www.twf.org/News/Y2008/1127-Mumbai.html

Quoted from Dawn, A Pak News Paper:
“New Delhi has not accused Islamabad’s civilian government of involvement but has expressed deep frustration that its neighbour has been unable or unwilling to prevent militants using its soil to attack Indian cities.

‘Even if the militants are linked to Lashkar-e-Taiba, who do you think we are fighting?’ Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari asked in an interview with the Financial Times.”

Dawn said on day 1 itself, that Modus operandi of terrorists seems similar to several attacks in Pakistan and to no other attack in India.

To add to conspiracy theories being floated, could it be related to 5-0 defeat of England team, They don’t want to go down 7-0? Could this be the reason. Let me publish it on a blog and add a link here.

“What would Pakistanis get out of targetting foreigners in India. Why would they want to send them back? It’s more likely that people within India especially naxalites would attck such a group as they do not agree with the capitalist policies of India. Further as Indians like you think that Pakistanis have a problem with Indians so in that case why did they target foreigners’ residences.”
>>To send a message to the western population to stay out. People like Osama-bin-Laden and many other leaders of similar terrorist outfits have openly criticized the west. Some of these groups have been masterminds of similar massive scale attacks in cities like New York and London and have even taken credit for it. The Mumbai attacks seem to have drawn inspiration from those attacks.
>> Regarding the attack being carried out by people troubed by the growing income disparities between various segments in India, I would have maybe agreed with you if only they hadn’t opened fire in CST, Mazgaon docks, Chowpatty & in taxis. All these places are not visited by the rich & mighty of India. These were regular people, going about the daily business of their lives. This attack was not directed directly at the so-called elite of India directly targeted…There are multiple records of victims/survivors saying that the terrorists asked for British and American passport holders.
>> Nowhere have they targeted residences- foreigners or Indians as mentioned by you. All establishments targeted were public places.
>> Today Pakistan is a failed economy- the nation is living on handouts from various agencies/countries. So who would be upset that while Pakistan has been reportedly portrayed as one of the most dangerous places in the world, your neighbor next door is the most attractive investment destination in the world and is increasingly popular on the international tourism circuit too
>> If the idea is to harm the Indian economy and India’s image as an emerging superpower-don’t you think then these attacks make sense?

“How the f*** did militant groups know that there were Jews in Nariman House? Now you will say ISI is involved. But you yourself said that Pakistan is not involved only Pakistani groups. Make up your mind! Again seems more likely that it was a group from within India.”
>> Its a well known fact, that a certain section of the Indian population is sympathetic towards Pakistan/Islamic nations. From the very start it was obvious that this was not the group’s first visit to either the sites or the country. They had studied the targets very thoroughly and they definitely had local support. There are multiples possibilities through which they could have come to India earlier- through the same route they chose this time (the coastline), through the Kashmir border (where infiltration by militants from across the border is a regular occurrence), using fake passports or identities (we do give visas to Pakistani nationals) etc…Just because you have intimate knowledge of place does not mean you have to be a local to plan out such attacks. If I were to go by your argument then the Al-Qaeda could never have masterminded 9/11 coz they sit half a world away in Afghanistan. I accept that they definitely had local support- SIMI, Dawoods network, local population, god knows who!
>> Why did the Pakistan PM first agree to send the ISI chief to India and then backtrack on the same promise? It is there for all to see who are the real masters of Pakistan…. ISI and the Army are the actual masters of Pakistan and it has been well established by the events of not the last week but the last six decades. I said the involvement of the Govt of Pakistan seems unlikely- the entire world knows that any civil govt in Pakistan has little control over the army or the ISI. So yes we are pointing fingers towards your army and the ISI.
>> Anti-Semitism runs quite high in Islam. The middle east is a burning example of this. Do read this peace carefully http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/hindus_jews_and_jihad_terror_i.html

“My dear a lot of Muslims were killed in these attcks. I think more than 50. Plus extremist groups in India have tried to frame Pakistan before as well so this is not the first time. Please read your own history!”
>>I agree that a lot of people of various ethinicities and religious leanings were killed. Let me point you towards something – there are accounts of people being let go when they said they were Muslims. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/3766609.cms
>> Does it sound like the actions of Hindu right wing?
>> I have read my history. Maybe you need to stop believing the jingoism fed to you by Pakistani media. Can you point me to a reliable source from where you got the number of Muslim victims???

Timing of the attack:
“Coverage by western media would suit any group. How does this establish that the group was Pakistani?”
>> For the so called home grown terror outfits their message and targets would all be local- they will derive no benefits from the coverage of these events internationally. But militant groups like Al-Qaeda, LET are known to have engineered such attacks for maximum mileage!
Sophistication of Attacks:
“Purohit had access to highly explosive RDX, the things you mentioned would have been no problem. Meri jaan you can buy satallite phones and mobiles in the market. What other “gadgets” have you found? And I think you have not read the report on the military personnel found to be involved with Hindi terrorist outfits. BAJRANG DAL EXTREMISTS WERE GIVEN ACCESS TO ABANDONED INDIAN ARMY TRAINING CAMPS.”
>> I have read the report maybe you need to read it again. Till yesterday Bajrang Dal was burning villages and today they are holding people hostage, open firing in public places and blowing up structures. I know there is a learning curve but surely it cannot possibly be so steep!
>> If the Bajrang Dal had to kill anyone it would be the Muslims then these are all the wrong targets..They would have targeted the Muslim ghettos in the metros. What benefit would they get from killing people in these locations? Also please make up your mind who perpetrated the attacks the naxalites? Or the Hindu right wing!
>> I still reiterate India is a far more inclusive society in the world. We all know Pakistan has made it a personal agenda to worry about the Muslims in India and not caring too hoots about their own residents. India has a thriving Muslim community. The Hindu minority in Pakistan is miniscule, declining and highly oppressed – there are hardly any notable examples of any of them making it to high levels in government, sports or any other field?

Identity of Terrorist:
“Jihad is well revered in Islam but targeting innocent people is strongly criticized. A vast majority of Muslims condemn the terrorist Islamic outfits. And who says the terrorists were imported from Karachi? You actually believe that crap? How did terrorists, who had just gotten of the boat, know the details of the city and even had access to the blue prints of the Hotels? Even Mr. Tata (owner of the Taj) raised this question on CNN.”
>>The GPS, the SAT phones recovered all have logs directly implicating Pakistan. I am sure you must have seen images
>> Like I said I am more inclined to believe my Govt.
>> I have already mentioned- these guys definitely had local support!

History:

“There is also history of internal terrorism in India. Why are you forgetting that?”
>>I am not forgetting anything. We have our problems, sure. But again and again as I keep pointing out, The probability of the guilty being brought to justice is far higher in India than in Pakistan. Also if you look at the history of the groups which have perpetrated violence in India against minorities- the attacks are nowhere close to the sophistication of this attack. They have always been led by the mob- Gujarat, Bombay ‘93, Orissa etc. What explanation do you have for the following?
- Almost 300,000 Kashmiri Pandits were forced to flee from Kashmir. Benazir Bhutto is known to be behind this ethnic genocide in the valley!
- As horrifying as the Babri Masjid demolition was not a single life was lost. The blasts in Mumbai, masterminded by a dawood Ibrahim (roaming about freely in Pakistan) is what triggered the ensuing blasts.
- The Parliament attack in 2001 was proven to be carried out by LET. The terrorists were Pakistani nationals. As the largest democracy in the world, it is to India’s credit that human rights activists are heard and the death sentence for that vile human being is still pending execution.
- Musharraf was responsible for Kargil- again may I remind you that this infiltration was entirely unprovoked.

“Your post tells me that either you are wither very young or your mind has been blocked by your emotions. Your media keeps contradicting itself and your government keeps contradicting your media. A few sane and well journalists have already criticised the role of the Indian media. Wait for the dust to settle and then make your argumets.”
>> Nowhere in my posts have I gotten personal with you or anyone else. I would appreciate it if you would extend the same courtesy to me. I hope it’s not too much to ask for because then it is very easy to reduce this discussion to a verbal slanging match defeating the entire purpose of this discussion

@indian
that was really a big bhashan.don’t you think?
can’t you give some bhashan for your own people for example peace ful and broad minded RSS,BJP,BAJRANG DAL.tell them that they are nice and civilised people and burning and slaughtering muslims is not suitable for them.
also give the bhashan to your security agencies tell them to be polite do not burn the train.
also there is need of bhashans about not to fabricate the evidence as we saw after attack on indian parliment.
and pointed out by inquiry commetie headed by narmila deshpande.

@ dr.jawwadkhan

why dont you tell ur jihadis/militants/ISI/Army the same thing too while ur at it :)

@indian
this is a really fantastic idea…..i,ll tell the jihadis that the slaughtering,burning and messacres are for our own good and there is no need to pick a weapon.
we can win the hearts and minds of hindu majority by singing bande matram and doing some dandwats in front of your god and godesses.after that we can all live with peace and harmony.this is really very nice idea.thanks for guiding us.

@Sajjad: “Akal Takht in the Golden Temple
complkex in Amritsar was badly damaged during
Operation Blue Star.”: Of course I’m aware of the
event.

1. How is that “Demolition of the Golden Temple”?
2. What the hell is someone supposed to do when
terrorists find shelter in a temple? Incidentally,
the cops then had explicit instructions to not
harm the sanctum sanctorum.

@dr.jawwadkhan
Do you remember a man called Gandhi…let me refresh ur memory… he got you ur freedom without any reliance on violence…..so greater purposes can be achieved without killing other people…but unfortunately with ur limited world view i dont expect you to know any of that!

It is people like you who are making the lives of Indian muslims harder…Now there is talk of profiling/tagging all indian muslims….all thanks to the constant infiltration, attacks, terrorism sponsored by Pakistan!

Why dont you get ur own house in order…stop ur own people from being killed in NWFP, Balochistan etc before worrying about what is happening in India!

Why dont you first improve the living conditions of the Hindus, Christians in Pakistan before worrying about the human rights of Muslims in India!

Also if you are so worried about our fate in India…pressurise your govt to allow us to migrate to Pakistan…extend us a warm welcome…the world will see how many people leave India to move to Pakistan!

@ Ashish

If you believe that a bunch of terrorists left Karachi, cruised through Indian waters for 50 hrs undetected by the Indian Navy then it is equally likely that the cause was cricket. Keep in mind this is the same Navy that takes minutes to intercept stray fishing vessels. The feat is even more amazing as there were joint military exercises taking place during the time on the coast of Mumbai and given the high security on the coast of Mumbai because of the Mumbai High Fields, which account for 40% of Indian domestic oil production.

I would advise you to read about the security arrangements on the cost of Mumbai and then answer how the terrorists made it through. What happened on the ground is even more fascinating but I wont get into that.

Now theories are surfacing that the insurgents entered Mumbai a month ago. Let’s see how this pans out.

@ Indian

Wasn’t Nariman House a foreign residence or at least a place where foreigners hung out?

Why would an Al-Qaeda-type group attack foreigners in India when it can make an attack on an angrez country? Like you pointed out that they are against the west so why attack India?

Why would Pakistan want westerners to stay out of India?
Your “impoverished” Pakistan and “emerging” India arguments implies that Pakistan is involved in the attack as it is jealous of India’s prosperity. Now you are digressing from your stance that terrorist groups based in Pakistan are involved. Why do you contradict yourself so much? Besides, if such groups were to perpetrate such an act, economic progress would not be a motive.

Why would terrorist organisations in Pakistan, which according to you hate India, attack foreigners when they can kill lots and lots of Indians? See the loopholes in your story.

The main targets were Oberoi and Taj hotels. Lots of rich people there and attack on these places is definetely directed at the rich.

So from Pakistani only attack now it has become an Pakistan + Local support attack. Slowly but surely you will get there. Let’s recap the changes so far:

1. ISI attacked (Official Pak involvement)
2. Groups supported by ISI attacked
3. Terrorist groups based in Pakistan attacked
4. Terrorist groups based in Pakistan attacked but with definite support from internal sources.

See how the Pakistan part is phasing out and the Indian involvement is becoming clear. Keep an eye on the trend.

A local outfit would want more international coverage than an already infamous group. Do you think Al-Qaeda needs more publicity? Already the problems within India are being highlighted in media around the world and people are finding out about the 160 million Dalits in India, the Naxalites and the treatment meted out to minorities.

Maybe you have been blinded by Shining India and have forgotten that you still have the largest number of poor people on this planet.

I see you have completely skipped that high-tech gizmos discussion. Couldn’t come up with an answer or realised that you created hype around a trivial thing?

Look I have already told you that it is too early to tell. Maybe it was Bajrang Dal, maybe the Naxalites, maybe wven terrorists based in Pakistan. However I will wait before pointing fingers especially given the recent events.

In your posts you have given a myriad motives, attacking jews, harming indian economy, targeting goraz and you have accused Pakistani govt, ISI, Army, terrorists, local support. You need to make up you mind!

- Not aware of the 300,000 Pandit incident. Post a link and I will do some research.

- So it is Ok to respond in kind? Then I guess Muslims i India should kill 2500 Hindus in response to the Gurat incident.

- Still no solid proof.

- I agree. Musharraf started it but it was hardly an act of terrorism. The area is divided by a line of control and Pak and India claim it to be theirs. Incursions over the LoI are common. Portions of Siachen have exchanged hands a number of times. So this was hardly unpredented as both sides have done this over the years. This is just an instant which escalated.

I see that you have ignored the most potent part of my argument (Your media keeps contradicting itself and your government keeps contradicting your media. A few sane and well known Indian journalists have already criticised the role of the Indian media. Wait for the dust to settle and then make your argumets) and have taken offence at my jibe. It was nothing personal and hardly slandering. I was merely describing your current state. Making up one’s mind in 1 hour over an event that lasted 3 days in my opinion is childish.

The days ahead will reveal:

1. How come the whole Indian Navy was sleeping and allowed a boat to dock without their informtion (see my reply to Ashish)?

2. How did the terrorists get their hand on structural details of the buidings?

3. Why did the Indian security forces react so late?

4. What is the relation of this event with the murder of the ATS personnel investigating Hindu Extremism?

5. Why did Israel send its investigation team wihthout India’s request? A notable Indian journalist (forgot his name) called it “maan na maan mein tera mehmaan.”

There are many more questions such as these that have been raised. Without the answer to these, an accusation cannot be made.

Talk of tagging is for all Indians and not for Muslims only. If there is any discrimination in the hand of law that is only preferential treatment to Muslims in India in certain aspects and no law that restricts their freedom in any aspect.
India has limited resources and huge population and illegal immigration especially from Bangladesh is causing havoc. So there are talks of having unique ID for all citizens which is norm in developed countries.

@ Mumbaikar

Have you seen the pictures of the place after the operation. I dont think the forces were listening to what they were told.

And yes, you can starve them out.

@ Indian

It is people like you who are creating problems for your own country by externalising your problems.

1. There are questions being raised on why Indian Navy was not able to detect. But it wasn’t 50 mile trip they failed to detect it was one hijack incidence. These guys captured an Indian fishermen vessel as soon as they entered India. And there have been reports of security lapse in regards to fishermen vessels which media is highlighting.

2. Not too difficult thing to do, as they were planning for operations for long time and definitely had support in India. Corruption is rampant in both India and Pakistan and not too difficult to pay someone to get details.

3. It took security forces couple of hours to realize what they are up against. They have never faced anything of this scale. Beyond that they were ill prepared to respond swiftly.

4. About murder of ATS personnel, it wasn’t anything which was planned. Those officials thought of it as gang fight or something and faced terrorists with pistols in Hand. They didn’t know what they are against. ATS officials obviously were first line of defense in Mumbai and they were brave enough and i would add not intelligent enough to lead from front.

5. Israel is sending investigation team as their nationals have been killed. Israel offered commando support which India refused. Be it Israel or US or UK each citizen’s death
is important and taken up by Govt and not Like India or Pakistan where there is no value for Human life and those who died are just one of huge number being repeated in Media.

If anyone be it an Indian or Pakistani believes Indian media especially likes of India TV on face value, they would be fool. India TV is backed by Suhaib Iliyasi who has multiple criminal cases pending against him and is most unethical among all. They didn’t even obliged to Army’s request for delayed transmission instead of Live one, which was not any kind of censorship but a request of not to help terrorists. They are in business of sensationalizing issues to attract audience. If you want to read real picture read http://www.ibnlive.com and see Times Now or CNN IBN. CNN IBN live tranmission is available online at url mentioned earlier.

@Sajjad

I Agree externalizing problem is not the solution. Even if there is external elements involved they can not act without local support and cutting that local support should be key element of strategy.

I remember reading somewhere, When Bush met Manmohan Singh he was introduced as ‘He is prime minister of country of 150 million Muslims with no single Al-Qaida member’ and that may not be true today.

@indian!
we know about gandhi and we know how the philosophy of “AAHINSA” was murdered long before the murder of mr gandhi.
but please correct yourself about independence.
1)it was not gandhi,it was quaid e azam mohammed ali jinnah
who won the freedom for us.the greatest of all leaders ever lived in subcontinent.please read “jinnah a corrective reading of the indian history” by asianand
2) freedom without any reliance on violence????
don’t believe every thing which is portrayed by bollywood movies. there was millions of muslims who were brutally messacred by hindu finatics.ethenic cleansing is in the foundation of india. thatswhy india still couldn’t get rid of it.

it is not people like me who are making the lives of indian muslim harder,it is the “hindu towa” which already made it.

why don’t you refrain yourself from following artshasta and chanakiya and let your neighbors in peace.pakistan, bangladesh, srilanka, nepal every where in the neighborhood
the miseries and restlessness points only one direction….india

don’t even think of comparing the condition of minorities in pakistan with the minorities of india.pakistan have much better record when it comes to minorities.
the hypocricy of inida is that they pick people from minorities for higher posts(president,prime minister,army chief etc etc) and get the licence for genocide and athenic cleansing.

we will be much better if india stop promoting terorrism in FATA and balochistan.(14 cousaltes are working day and night to accomplish this task)

“Also if you are so worried about our fate in
India…pressurise your govt to allow us to migrate to”

thanks for advise.paksitani govt: already did it60 years ago.my grandfathers migrated from “RAJHISTAN”.he was not educated person and my father became educated,worked and retired as a chief enginier from govt department(unimaginable if we were in india)
no matter how hard time of our history we are facing without a slightest doubt in my mind i believe that pakistan is a greatest blessing of ALLAH(swt) to us.

Not that specific book, but I have read a lot about Jinnah. It is a truth that Jinnah was a secular leader and wanted a secular Pakistan which didn’t materialize.Also he didn’t ask for a separate nation in first place and that demand emerged only after he was completely marginalized by congress and hence joined Muslim League. He asked for Pakistan when he realized that we will not be able to create his own place in Congress. He asked for a single state with reservations for Muslims in certain areas which congress rejected as it wanted equal voting rights for all.

I respect Jinnah as he was an educated Muslim for whom religion was not the only thing which mattered. He married parsi girl and his daughter married a parsi and his grand sons are prominent business family in India (Bombay Dyeing, for those who are not aware of it)

Lets just think where it all started. Pakistan giving support to ‘Freedom fighters’ in Punjab and Kashmir. And those people have gone out of their hands as happened with Indira Gandhi’s support for LTTE, America’s support for Osama and other radical groups in Afghanistan and Saddam etc. It is high time for world realize terror is no solution for any problem.

Wish Pakistan could have followed Jinnah’s advice which most if not all Muslims in India followed:

“In July 1947, before partition, some of his community members of Central Constituent Assembly asked Mohammad Ali Jinnah for his advice to Indian Muslims in the new State of India. Jinnah, refrained from giving specific advice but cautioned them, ” be loyal to India, concentrate on education and politics, and avoid confrontationist politics” and that “they should not seek to ride two horses” (The Muslims in India by A.G.Noorani) . Another quote attributed to Quaid-i-Azam is equally pertinent–”We are all sons of this land. We have to live together. We have to work together and whatever our differences may be, let us at any rate not create more bad blood… Believe me there is no progress of India until the Musalmans and Hindus are united, and let no logic, philosophy or squabble stand in the way of coming to a compromise…”. “

BTW, I am in no position to compare how life for you would have been if you would have stayed back in India, but can assure you would have got similar opportunities as Hindus.

Probably your father wouldn’t have got better opportunities in Pakistan as due to Mahatma Gandhi’s agitation Pakistan got disproportionately high share of nation’s wealth during partition which was essentially based on total Muslim population of India and not of Muslims which moved to Pakistan.

Thus Pakistan much better per capita income for first 30 years but post 91 liberalization India has been growing much faster to make up for that loss.

To get current peek into Muslim’s condition in India have a look at:

http://muslimwatch.blogspot.com/2007/04/muslims-spend-more-than-hindu-peers.html

oops, I meant your father would have got better opportunities in Pakistan than in India.

@ashish
quite impressive!
“It is a truth that Jinnah was a secular leader and wanted
a secular Pakistan…..”
i disagree that he was a secular person.in his youth he did marry a parsi girl but he changed diametrically in the last few years of his life.he disinherited his daughter for marrying a parsi man.so she didn’t have any choice except to return back to india.
i have quite a big number of refrences from his own speeches that he wanted an ideologic islamic state.but this not the right time and forum to present it.

no advise,no religion,no ideology and no force can stop the out comes of injustices.i wish indians could understand the simple rule.

@ashish
equally impressive u turn!
“BTW, I am in no position…….. opportunities as Hindus”
please do not tell me about minorities of india by giving us some ridiculous links.i have my own links.my relatives still live in india also i personaly visited india few years ago and when i returned,i thanked ALLAH(SWT)for not let me be an indian muslim.my faith in pakistan grew more stronger.

when i got the admisssion in medical college.my batch comprised of 500 students.no indian can believe that 200 of that batch was hindus……unimaginable in secular india.

your gandhi gave you a secular india. but he couldn’t give you a secular society.

@ Ashish

1. The distance is not 50 miles. It is a tad above 500 nautical miles (almost 600 miles) and most of this journey was in Indian waters. You can forgive the Navy for missing a fishing vessel that temporarily enters Indian waters but to allow a boat access to Indian waters for approx 50 hours and then dock is incomprehensible.

2. Easier said than done. If hotel plans are for sale in India, it better watch out. However, once the link between the terrorists and their supporters becomes clearer, a better analysis of the issue can be made.

3. Commandos train for these activities. Within hours NSG was there on site but yet the operation took 3 days. Keep in mind there were 12 people spread in 3 localities. An organised mob could have flushed them out earlier.

4. How do you know it wasn’t planned. Indians thought that the bombings Karkare was investigating were carried out by Muslims but found out that it was a planned “false flag” operation. These things only come out after a thorough investigation. Top 3 ATS investigators who had been repeatedly threatenend by Hindu extremists were killed within the first hour. Coincidence? Higly unlikely.

5. Your foreign minister, during a press conference, told the media that he had refused foreign support from UK / USA (can’t rememeber exactly) and had told them that if Indians could successfully run a country of more than a billion people, it could manage the investigation on its own. The very next day, a committee flew in from Israel. Help in investigations is offered not given forcefully.

There are several other observations:

1. The saffron band on one of the terrorist’s wrist (pic available online).
2. “Suspicious” activities around Nariman House before the attack.
3. The immediate and planned response of BJP.

However, these are merely conjectures and based on “non-credible” evidence just like the stories the Indian media is peddling. The Indian government’s response has been considerably better. It is also good to know that a reaction to the initial mindless slandering specifically by the hindi media has finally come. Yesterday on a Pakistani channel, an Indian report from Star News was played, and the guest Indian reporter (forgot her name) called it a “scene out of a bollywood film.”

Finally, a cardinal rule of investigation is not to reveal any information so that once the complete picture has been pieced together, the actual sources could be identified and caught. I am sure that the investigation teams given that task are practicing this mantra therefore whatever comes on the media at this point in time is amateursih speculation by people who want to raise their ratings.

@dr.jawwadkhan

If it is true, having 200 hindus in batch of 500 is impressive. 40% of batch comprising of less than 1.6% of people.

Meritocracy is something we missed in India. In India in such a batch, there would be 50-75% of people from reserved categories, depending on state, including so called SC/ST who have been living better life than general category students, Muslims, Christian SC/ST (though there is no concept of SC/ST in Christianity but people won’t convert unless they continue getting reservation) and then there are other institutions which are Minority institutions having 50%+ reservation for Minority such as Muslims and Christians.

In states like Tamil Nadu after all those reservations only 5-7% of Brahmins get through and thats why you see large number of South Indians in institutions abroad.

I am really impressed if Pakistan gives equal opportunity to compete regardless of religion, cast, creed. That is something which lead to Pakistan being knowledge superpower in future.

India is not a nation without problems and no one here likes politicians but there are enough checks placed in system. As you pointed out ATS didn’t hesitate investigating Army involvement. RSS has much less following in India than you would have imagined. Only reason BJP has following in middle class is not because of its Hindutva links but as that is the party which comprise of higher number of educated individuals than any other.

BTW I have long been thinking of forum for increasing people to people interaction between India and Pakistan. Had started a website during early days of Internet aimed at helping people find lost relatives across borders and got some success stories there.

There are perception about ‘us’ and ‘them’ on both sides and such interactions if held at logical level can help bringing out true picture.

To Sajid:

Look closely it’s not a Thread that the Hindus wear.

It’s too thick

It’s bright orange- what they wear is a reddish one

Their Red thread also has a white one woven into it- this is plain orange.

Dear Ashish,

Its been nice to c u comments a healthy discussion. I most of readers should consider few facts when making comments otherwise it will be moot point.

Pakistan is ” ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN”. It is a Muslim FEDERATION/STATE.
It is not a Secular state like India which is just for namesake as there Hindus are in majority and minority are under subdued.I think you should not deny it otherwise we will only try to prove my comment is right and no conclusion. Basically name of India should be Hindustan. In a secular state every religion should let all have equal rights but there is a constant effort to prove one religion right and distort other religions and convert somehow the other.This may be in constitution but not in practice ( exceptions may be there)

As most of Indian muslims even in this blog proud to be a nationalist than muslim Ummah.

I qoute Allama Iqbal and Mr Jinnah below and you could conclude your self

1. It cannot be denied that Islam regarded as an ethical ideal plus certain kind of polity by which expression I mean a social structure regulated by a legal system and animated by a specific ethical idea has been chief formative factor in the life history of the Muslims of India.”

Would you like me to see Islam as a moral and political ideal, meeting the same fate in the e world of Islam as Christianity has already met in Europe ” Is it possible to retain Islam as an ethical ideal and to reject it as polity in favor of national politics in which religious attitude is not permitted to play its part ?”

2.India is a continent of human groups belonging to different races, speaking different languages and professing different religions …. To base a constitution on the conception of a homogeneous India …. is to prepare for a civil war.

3.Pakistan scheme proposes a separate federation of Muslim Provinces directly related to England as a separate dominion. This scheme originated in Cambridge. The authors of this scheme believe that we Muslim Round Tablers have sacrificed the Muslim nation on the altar of Hindu orso called Indian Nationalism.
IQBAL

JINNAH SAID
1.’ The differences in India, between the two major nations, the Hindus and the Muslims are a thousand times greater when compared with the continent of Europe.’

2.India is not a national state, India is not a country, but a sub-continent composed of nationalities, the two nations being Hindus and Muslims whose culture and civilization, language and literature, art and architecture, name and nomenclature, sense of value and proportion, laws and jurisprudence, social and moral codes, customs and calendar, history and traditions, aptitudes and ambitions, outlook on life and of life are fundamentally different nay in many respects antagonistic”.

Has indian government shown bodies of any of terriorist. If not i wont consider them dead as it to me that india is looking for aggression towards pakistan.

As nato forces( usa) are bombarding FATA now indian wants to apply same algebric equation to protect its bounderies and i tell u now they will start bombing claiming they are training sites for ?terriorists.

AMERICAN’S CHANGE OF STRATEGY
This is an American plan or Bush plan as they want to come and play indirectly as their Iraq and afghanistan adventure has caused them great international disgrace. Indians are just Slaves to their masters first it was britishers now usa.

A discussion involving experts from both India and Pakistan:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/counter-strike-india-must-bomb-terror-camps/79599-3-single.html

we all know that it was all planned by india itself. i dont understand tht dont u indians know wat u guys are doin’ in afghanistan,balochistan,sarhad and even in FATA.u guys r so ignorant of the facts.i wonder how much clever would those young guys be tht they crossed the coastal borders with such efficiency gr88 isnt it.u guys’ve been blamin’ and blamin’since decades ,plz come 2 da reality and try to accept ur weaknesses and extremism .n plz tell me r u jealous of r ISI n ARMY oooo’ plz dont b.since when u guys r a part’f da jewish and american lobbies and’ve started playin’ such cheap monoplies against da muslims and u guys against PAKISTAN especially. tell me r u guys really jealous ,dis makes me laugh u know but no prob really we’ve got the power’f truth n faith and we would lub 2 face any challenge’s alwayz.ur attitude iz not gonna chnge then y should v keep silent.n beliv me da whole world iz inshallah goin’ 2 know da real side’f the torch bearer of da world’s peace keepin’ nations INDIA.i dont understand y r u guys playin’ games wid da souls’f da gone ones they wan’justice not ur weak and baseless blames.check da heartz’f ur extemist minds filled wid da hatred agnst muslims n PAKISTAN and u guys wont b able 2 face da world.

What I don’t understand why do you think ‘World’ is conspiring against Pakistan? Is Pakistan, a country which goes to brink of bankruptcy every few years, that important for USA, Europe and Israel.?

As if you are the enlightened ones who know what your govt is doing and done and rest of world including Pakistani media and other Islamic country media debating Pakistani involvement are bunch of fools.

Indian Army conspiracy, RAW conspiracy and all that. Wish RAW would have been strong enough for that. They are no CIA or ISI, who can act in Nation’s interest without seeking vote-hungry politician’s approval.

Just read about India and Indians through neutral websites and you will come to know, how much false shit about India you have been fed on since school days.

I have been reading Indian and Pakistani blogs for last few days and it seems ‘There are few fundamentalist (few Hindus and few Muslims) in India and few Moderates in Pakistan’.

http://dailymailnews.com/200812/03/news/dmboxitem.html

@hahahahahahahahah
can you give us examples of genocides in pakistan?
can you point out similar genocides like gujrat( where peoples are swinishly murdered, raped and economicaly destroyed) are orchestrized in pakistan?
can you give us examples where masses of fenatics killed innocent peoples because they do not share the same religion?
can you point out the single incident where an acting army officer burnt the whole train with people (burnt alive) and major political party come to support that criminal?
can you give us any example of ethnic cleansing like orisa?
can you give any example when 70000 people are killed because they ask for right of self determination?as agreed by/in united nations.

@hahahahahahhahahah
there is no comparision between india and pakistan when it caomes to minorities.

@ Ashish
If india want to bomb terrorist camps no problem but so by same token we should bomb same army battallien of col. who burnt the train full of pakistanis- and we will bomb few ministers houses as well.

BUT if those ? camps turn out to be poor civilians Are we allowed to bomb you Parilment and Presidency and your house ( as you also supporting this ) who would be directly or indirectly involved in innocent killings.

In my opinion before going that route think twice we are not same apologetic ( as our govt ) forgiving people anymore. As bearing too much Zulm is also kufr in Islam and 100 yrs are enough for overlooking.

@RAJA
EXCELLENT POINT

Please view this video by Kashmiri filmmaker Ashok Pandit, “And the World Remained Silent,” (linked here, http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=ilfJDY8rA9I&feature=related andhttp://in.youtube.com/watch?v=u2vsztUdkpU&feature=related ) which chronicles the ethnic cleansing of some 350,000 Hindus from Kashmir during early 1990. Do take not of the jihadist speech of the late,Ms. Bhutto.

Obviously it is ok for you to harm me and mine but not ok for me to protest or retaliate…

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/04/world/asia/04pstan.html?_r=1&hp

http://www.dawn.com/2008/12/04/top5.htm
“WMD attack to originate in Pakistan: US report”

And now Kashmiri Millitants say Pandits are as much part of Kashmir as Muslims and we want all of them back in Valley.
We know and acknowledge life of a common man in Heaven on earth has become Hell because of terrorist attacks and also due to Army’s attempt to prevent such attacks.

But people have a hope, that though some innocent people were victim of operation in Punjab but now once that terrorism has been wiped off from Punjab it is one of most prosperous state in India. And that hope has been demonstrated in recent elections.

@indian
same old bullshit in form of speculation and islamophobia, we saw many times.

please give us some thing concrete and solid.

Its been 18 years…these people have been living in refugee camps all over India..

I have not heard of any militants saying that they want the Hindus to come back to Kashmir…Please do give me the links…
But i have heard with my own ears people on loudspeaker asking Hindus to leave the valley or be prepared to die…
I am sorry but unless i hear the first message with my own ears too i am unwilling to believe that!

Terrorism was wiped clean in Punjab because the Govt decided to act tough and strike at roots… I think the time has come to do that in Kashmir too…..

I am tired of seeing my state being slaughtered day after day…

@Dr J

Unfortunately if ur eyes are closed…even if the truth were to hit you between the eyes i doubt if you would believe it….

I just want to say..dont you think it is unfortuante that a nations name is sullied because of the acts of a few??? that Pakistan is inching closer and closer to being categorised as a terrorist state or a rogue state? That once your allys are increasingly turning around and pointing fingers at you?

@dr.jawwadkhan

Ok, I agree this is all speculation, but does that help. An Important management lesson is ‘Perception is all that matters’. If you are a company manufacturing best possible product and people don’t think so you will go bankrupt.

So, I agree Pakistan has no involvement, but not just India, world doesn’t think so. I agree its all a false propaganda by India to defame Pakistan, but thats how the real world is. They have succeeded and now onus is on Pakistan to prove that they are not involved. Doesn’t help saying we are being framed without proof, because lets face it whatever anti-US feelings you may have, US has control over world institutions and IMF bailout that Pakistan got recently and will need more of it.

And it would be great news for both India and Pakistan if Pakistan comes clean of it and tension between both countries is eased.

@indian!
if you have some thing useful and concrete to share, we will be happy to watch other wise it will be the waste of our time and yours also.

@Ashish!
it will be surely a great news if the tenison between india and pakistan may ease.
but i couldn’t understand the validity of the notion that “one is accused and now it is the obligation of the one to prove his innocence”.
can you give me the one example of any civilised society which parctice this kind of judicial aberration.
“accuser should provide the evidence” sound logical….isn’t it?
we live in the world where every carnivorous animal not only chants his right to attack the herbivorous but also demands the law which can refrain the herbivorous to resist such attacks.

@ Dr J:
Please do take a look at the videos i posted..and then maybe we can talk abt genocide and ethnic cleansing!

There is a difference in accusing and general perception.
If a product is accused of being harmful to health, allegations are found baseless but public believes there may be some truth in allegation, people continue thinking of it as bad product.

Even if nothing gets proven against a criminal or even if court says he is innocent, if the whole society believes that he is still seen as criminal he will face a neglect.

And there is no denying in it that Pakistani nationals have been involved in terrorist activities earlier. Even ex-ISI chief and Zardari in an interview essentially said that ‘ISI is responsible for few such incidences earlier but now Political wing has been dismantled and its completely under govt control.’

So the best approach would be to have a look at current situation and work on coming out of it. Indians do accept the problems they have, no sensible Indian wants Hindu terrorism and are happy that it has been dismantled at its early phase. When they were able to accomplish just one attack and that too to take revenge of killing of a Sadhvi’s boy friend by SIMI.

No sensible Indian supports,Gujarat Riots, Christian Killing , whatever may be justification and cause Killing another human being of whatever religion is not acceptable in society. I have still to see an Indian who thinks that even if one’s family is killed by someone (logic given for Gujarat and 93 Mumbai blasts) one should go ahead and Kill other innocent people. Offcourse except for those few members of VHP, RSS, Bajrang Dal who use ‘mob emotions’ for their personal gain.

And this is not a problem in India, religious riots is problem in whole of south Asia, more people have been killed in Shia-Sunni riots than in riots in India.

Read this book called ‘Curfewed Nights’ by Basharat Peer a Journalist in Kashmir. Started reading it couple of days, it is a neutral account in form of a Novel about a Kashmiri teenager in 1989 and how He grows amidst terror attacks and Army deployment.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/fineprint–curfewed-night-a-memoir-on-kashmir/78255-9.html

Perception is perception. Many times it proved to be wrong.
No society can afford to have a judicial system works on general perception
Perceptions can not be the alternative of the justice based on concrete evidence especially when it comes to delicate and sensitive international relations like indo-Pak with potential of nuclear war.
The second gulf war is the living and present example of perception. When George bush and his cronies built a general perception that Iraq has connection with al Qaida and possess WMD’s to achieve their loathful goals and later proved wrong and result……..is in front of every one no need to say anything.
.
Either you are too naive or you are trying to be smart.
The interview you are quoting is about the internal problems of Pakistan. Political wing has nothing to do with India.

“And this is not a problem in India, religious riots are problem in whole of south Asia,more people have been killed in Shia-Sunni riots than in riots in India.”

Again I am sorry to say that ethnic cleansing is purely an Indian phenomenon. There is absolutely no hatred between Shia or Sunni population In Pakistan or any where else in south asia. What we see is some unknown terrorist carry out terrorist attack against innocent people of other sect. You will never see a group of mobs carrying weapons killing the people and burning the property of the people of other sect: or religion in Pakistan or any other country of south Asia.

http://www.urdunet.com/gujarat/gujaratphotos.htm

http://www.kashmiris.org/humanRights.htm

samjhota train blasts as there was a “GENRAL PERCEPTION” that it was done by ISI
http://newsx.com/story/35168

an eye openere for those who believe in general perception

http://www.countercurrents.org/hr-mukherji201006.htm

more about athnic cleansing in kashmir.one horrible detail report of human rights violation in kashmir

http://www.kashmiri-cc.ca/misc/SITHUMAN.htm

Guys Guys,…

Instead of fighting over sensitive matters like religion and pasting URLs from the internet ,..try to think about your life,..your future,..your country.
Internet is full of bullshit and If one writer writes HEAVEN IS HELL ,.the other one writes HELL IS HEAVEN.
Both countries have their own pros and cons…and stop fighting over religion.JEEZZ!.Educated enough to write in english and this is what you do!???.
Try to strengthen your country by doing something usefull,..try to stay together,…and pray for the ppl who lost their lives,.be it India or Pakistan or Timbuktu!.

And please dont rely too much on internet.Believe what you see,…Believe only when you know that its believable.

F the indian ,pakistani politicians who play with the spirit of their country men.!!.

DAMN!…Getta life guys!..Seriously.
No offence meant to any Indian or Pakistani.

@Indian
you are right you have right to retaliate but u are missing The point it is us who will bomb u again as relaliation be cause you keep destroying our peace. Indian Govt from Ghandi to NEHRU and their descedents have never accepted Pakistan and from day one they are doing thier best to destablise us.

@Ashish
Reading few comments U said peace in Indian punjab is because govt dealt SIKHS with iron hand.hmmmmmm
I thought their was treaty but as u tell me either they sold their souls or they are cowards ( we thought they are brave punjabis).

SO U HINDUS CRUSHED SIKHS…….I any sikh reading this to through away their Karpan.

I am a hindu.I want to address a muslim friend,about the problems with us.To my mind the main problem is our being Hindu and Muslim.And from that stand, we are trying to solve our problems.Imagine I am not a Hindu and you are not the Muslim.Our problems are the problems of two human beings.Simple …very simple…easy to solve.We will understand each other in better way.
All identities result into bloody conflict.Religious…national …social or whatever
Cant we humans live without allthese identities? Or only withw one identity ie HUMAN BEING

RAB E ASHAR LI SADRI WA YASRLI MIN AMRI
For everyone and all faiths

I totally agree with gk. What WORLD saying and raising slogan of Humanity Islam raised long time ago.

That what ISLAM teaches
1. ONE GOD:
THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE ALLAH – so why differ this is original message in most known religions but has been distorted.

2. ONE LAST PROPHET:
ONE LAST PROPHET MOHAMMED pbuh WHO IS NOT only FOR MUSLIMS BUT FOR WHOLE HUMAN RACE.

3.ONE QURAN
There is One Last book from Allah which is QURAN which testifies all Prophets and Holy books before this and also laid down principals to live life defining rights and obligations for everyone.

All human beings are equal and one who discriminate on grounds color,creed,riches or race will perish.

Man and women are equal and have rights and obligation and duties towards each other.

Respect and help your neighbours, elders, children, poor, orphans and donot breach anyones rights.

If you see any wrong doing stop by force ( if have ability ), if cannot speak against it and even not that than feel in your heart.

Keep striving for rights of Allah and rights for mankind.

Are we clear who has many gods and goddess, different faiths , holy books full of fights, wars,mythology,castes, races, status stating prophets companion as prostitutes even to dated and based on mere blind faith.

World in name of modernisation going backwards e.g. institution of marriage has been abused it was stone age when a man and a women use to live with declaring man and wife and each other were open to anyone and change partners – this is still practised in savage tribes of africa.In old civilisation and cultured world that is our ancestors was known as adultary or debauchaory.

In this modern world prostitutes are in trouble because thy donot know how to dress to attract customers as nowadays every other women is dressing and acting like that and are even sold on a cigarette.

This what we muslims are fighting and striving for, just delivering a message and fulfilling our duty bestowed upon us.

Prophet Muhammad’s Last Sermon

Date delivered: 632 A.C., 9th day of Dhul al Hijjah, 10 A.H. in the ‘Uranah valley of Mount Arafat.

After praising, and thanking God, he said: “O People, listen well to my words, for I do not know whether, after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and TAKE THESE WORDS TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE PRESENT HERE TODAY.

O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Treat others justly so that no one would be unjust to you. Remember that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that HE will indeed reckon your deeds. God has forbidden you to take usury (riba), therefore all riba obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital , however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer inequity. God has judged that there shall be no riba and that all the riba due to `Abbas ibn `Abd al Muttalib shall henceforth be waived.

Every right arising out of homicide in pre-Islamic days is henceforth waived and the first such right that I waive is that arising from the murder of Rabi`ah ibn al Harith ibn `Abd al Muttalib.

O Men, the Unbelievers indulge in tampering with the calendar in order to make permissible that which God forbade, and to forbid that which God has made permissible. With God the months are twelve in number. Four of them are sacred, three of these are successive and one occurs singly between the months of Jumada and Sha`ban. Beware of the devil, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.

O People, it is true that you have certain rights over your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under God’s trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Treat your women well and be kind to them, for they are your partners and committed helpers. It is your right and they do not make friends with anyone of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste…

O People, listen to me in earnest, worship God (The One Creator of the Universe), perform your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadan, and give your financial obligation (zakah) of your wealth. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.

Remember, one day you will appear before God (The Creator) and you will answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

O People, NO PROPHET OR MESSENGER WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I am leaving you with the Book of God (the QUR’AN*) and my SUNNAH (the life style and the behavioral mode of the Prophet), if you follow them you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness O God, that I have conveyed your message to your people.

sorry, little bit of the topic, has anyone actually checked whether all 12 or 16 terrorists killed and captured in Bombay drama were circumcised? that would have explained a lot;)

Please stop your islamic propaganda…that does not resolve anything!

hey indian ,when r u gonna stop ur blamin,propaganda but there is a lot’f diff ur’s is a propaganda and ISLAM its the solution for da mankind ,no comparison ,simply mindblowin’ dear .

@Indian

This FRUSTRATION in your comment just proves that u guys are intolerent and injust …….and your words are mere sweet coatings only weak will be misguided.

No problem its you who are suffering and will suffer more….

I dare you in the name of Allah to bring something like Quran from any of your book.

@Indian
Not the right place to discuss. I was surprised to see response in these blogs which were contrary to views I got from distant relatives and friends in Pakistan.

This blog seems to be run by same people bringing bad name to Islam and to their own country, Pakistan.

Don’t believe whatever being said on these blogs is true representation of Islam or Pakistan. For a healthy discussion with real Pakistani people visit http://www.paklinks.com/gs/

Dear Syed,

I am not surprised to see your comment. This what most of the muslims have turned into mostly Indians.

Now preaching Islam and telling people to come to right path is wrong and unhealthy.

Telling people not to do Idol worshiping is wrong calling them to come to peace is unhealthy.

Helping the oppressed and poor is unhealthy.
Demanding Justice is unhealthy.
Killing innocent is unhealthy.( Kashmir, bengal, assam, punjab, palestine )
Telling EVIL is evil is unhealthy.

It is not war of Pakistan or hindustan it is Islam and non believers. But Muslims are not initiators.

‘ Muslims are like a body if one part aches/suffers whole body feels the pain.’- Hadith Bukhari.

In Islam eye for an eye, limb for limb, life for life. we havenot even done full count of 1947 but we foregave which is even better.What we get they kill more.

Syed those were your ancestors who brought islam here we are following what they taught but you have forgotten it.

“On day of judgement you will be raised you die with ……..not only in body but heart as well.”

Dil Mard Momim Mein Phir Zinda Kar Day
Wo Bijli Kay Thi Nara La Tazar Mein
Azaim Ko Seenon Mein Baidar Kar Day
Nigha e Musalman Ko Talwar Kar day

Pakistani’s like Indians and has been forgiving them but……… THEY ALWAYS BREAK THE TRUST.

@syed

Just look at the comment of indian

Islam is just a propaganda

And what it makes you ‘pos’ or blind.

First it was Deccan Mujahidin now its Kashmiri link a muslim policeman……

To me its like a cheap bollywood movie plot.

Wakeup brother wakeup.

i dont know why anyone is fighting about this…
why would Pakistan give any of their own people away without any proof? and guess what the media doesn’t count.. its funny how some people are so hallucinated by their own media.. they cant see past it.. saddest part though is that the whole world is on India’s media’s side.. while Pakistan is just trying to follow the proper procedures. think about it people if one of your family member did something bad.. would you just hand them over t the police or would you not investigate first.. or ask some evidence from the police?

i hope the media gets their common sense back soon because people are dying its not just about some celebrity being anorexic anymore.

http://ugghani.blogspot.com/2008/12/deja-vu-of-samjhuta-malagaon-rdx-and.html

we will do are die for our country

That’s what Mahatma Gandhi said, right.
Great, So will we and that will be end of South Asia :-)

Alternative, lets kill all terrorists and Indians and Pakistanis can live happily ever after…

Dear Syed,

If you want peace in India tell your Gov. and your people to stop

sending terriorist in Balochistan, NWFP and Afghanistan.Tell them stop killings in Kashmiries.
OUR Govt is weak but we are not.

70% of caught militants (so called taliban) in Pakisatn are either non muslims and Hindus.

May I ask where a hindu is trained? I tell u in Hindustan.

It is very simple as A muslim who can die for Islam who says his prayers even in shadow of bombs and bullets how can he blast a mosque.

Only a HINDU/or Islam hating person can do that.

Secondily, Our Role model is Mohammed (pbuh).
Have a glimpse of your role model Mahatama Pitta sharif ‘Ghandi’ in my following post because He is the Grate……….
I hope all of u are following him in all his manners

DEAR INDIANS & SYED

“LIFE OF MOHANDAS GHANDI”

ACTUAL QUOTES ON GANDHI’S RACISM:

The Durban Post Office: One of Gandhi’s major “achievements” in South Africa was to promote racial segregation by refusing to share a post office door with the black natives.

“A general belief seems to prevail in the colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than the savages or natives of Africa. Even the children are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is being dragged down to the position of a raw Kaffir.” [local native of South Africa] (Reference: The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi, Government of India (CWMG), Vol I, p. 150)

Regarding forcible registration with the state of blacks: “One can understand the necessity for registration of Kaffirs [local native of South Africa] who will not work.” (Reference: CWMG, Vol I, p. 105)

“Why, of all places in Johannesburg, the Indian Location should be chosen for dumping down all the Kaffirs of the town passes my comprehension…the Town Council must withdraw the Kaffirs [local native of South Africa] from the Location.” (Reference: CWMG, Vol I, pp. 244-245)

Gandhi’s description of black inmates: “Only a degree removed from the animal.” Also, “Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized – the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals.” – Mar. 7, 1908 (Reference: CWMG, Vol VIII, pp. 135-136)
——————————————————-

My meaning of brahmacharya is this: “One who never has any lustful intention, who . . . has become capable of lying naked with naked women . . . without being in any manner whatsoever sexually excited.” –M. K. Gandhi

The greater the temptation, the greater the renunciation. –M. K. Gandhi

I threw you in the sacrificial fire and you emerged safe and sound. –Gandhi to his grandniece Manu Gandhi

I can hurt colleagues and the entire world for the sake of truth. –M. K. Gandhi (letter to shila Nayar)

[Gandhi] can think only in extremes-either extreme eroticism or asceticism. –Jawaharlal Nehru

The professional Don Juan destroys his spirit as fatally as does the professional ascetic, whose [mirror] image he is. –Aldous Huxley, Do What You Will

If gandhi was alive today, he would be arrested for sexual abuse and put away for life as a sexual offender.

“We know from his autobiography how shamefully he treated his wife. He was transparently honest and he had much less to hide from anyone else. Nothing can be found if other public figures are to be scrutinized because things have been carefully hidden and suppressed.” Gandhi, the family man. Gandhi’s Grandson.

0. Gandhi used to beat his wife up routinely.

0. Gandhi was having sex when his father lay breathing his last upstairs.

0. Gandhi denied sex to his wife for decades

0. Gandhi was an adulterer and had a spiritual marriage with two British women who were in the Ashram

0. Gandhi slept naked with his niece (and 12 year old girls) and other women to prove that he could control his manliness.

0. Gandhi would do enemas twice a day and if he liked you allowed you to enter the piece up his rectum.

0. Gandhi used to drink his own urine and also the urine of cows.

0. Chilled Urine drinking hot in India. From Gandhi to Prime Minister Desai to common man
Hindu India: A gift from the Hindu Gods:Cows Urine: UK Telegraph reports by Julian West

0. Gandhi son left him and converted to Islam

0. The racist Gandhi was a total failure in South Africa where he tried to stratify the society, Whites, Indians and Africans. His racism towards the Africans was horrendous. His horrific advice to all Jews to commit suicide was abomible. His atrocious letters to his friend Hitler were the height of stupidiy.

THESE ARE NOT MINE OR ANY MUSLIMS QOUTES.if donot believe read books your self.

I quote below an opinion on secularism as expressed by Nehru in his letter to Mohammed Ali Jinnah dated April 6, 1937:

“The fixing of the Muslims’ share in the state services by statutory enactment necessarily involves the fixing of shares of other groups and communities similarly. This would mean a rigid and compartmental state structure which will impede progress and development.”

Nehru obviously considered secularism an article of faith rather than a matter of convenience.

SO MINORITIES ARE OBSTRUCTIVE TO PROGRESS AND DEVELOPMENT -

I have nothing against Gandhi but he seriously hated muslims and believed that India was a nation just for hindus. Why would people leave their homelands if they didnt think that it could get better for them in India? Gandhi was a huge racist and its sad to know that thousands of people bought into his fakeness. A lot of injustice has always been done to Muslims in India and stats give that away.

Mullahs and sheiks of oil rich countries needs some entertainment time to time part of their lxurious life. apart from their usual immoral lives with many wifes and concubines. they want to entertain themselves with some fire works..let be it newyork,madrid,islamabad,or mumbai…they along with all sympothize muslims seems enjoy themselves watching it like a video game.after all its written in koran to wage war with unbelievers.they are the real culprits who fund them in the name of islam.these behind the scene players must be brought to justice.

Dear Prince
I am Raja so something in common.
well u again depicted very fairly ideology hindustan
ABUSE ,ACCUSE,REFUSE.
It is these Mullah’s and sheiks who made u cultered
otherwise
either u would be drinking urine- like m k ghandi and vajpai

or ur women burnt alive ( sati) for an immoral man

or dancing half / full naked for a male offspring or money in front of brahaman priest who after making her drunk giving her child by riding her.

or satisfying four or five brothers ( may be village) at a time.(Indra Ghandi slept with her music master, cheif minister and cocubine husband – by force or choice perhaps Hindu men are not good enough to satisfy one women)

or in name of being a bharamcharia sleeping naked with his neice (Ghandi slept with his 12 yr neice )

or a SHUDRA like u would not be allowed use ur wife till ur rajput king or Bharaman priest test her first and say ok.

It is in Islam that a slave sits and eats besides his master.And a slave can becomea king e.g. Sultan Al Tatamush

Piece of Advice: Before writing anything bad about just see what you are yourselves.

33:50 – “Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty.”
23:5 – “… except with their wives and slave girls, for these are lawful to them:…”

Islam’s Prophet promised slaves in Paradise
Koran 70:22 Not the devout, who pray constantly and whose wealth has a fixed portion set aside for beggars and the destitute, and those who believe in the Judgment Day, and those who fear their Lord’s punishment-because no one is safe from their Lord’s punishment-and who control their sexual desires, except with their wives or slave-girls, with them there is no blame; but whoever indulges their lust beyond this are transgressors), and who keep their trusts and promises, and who tell the truth, and who are attentive to their prayers. These will live with honors in Gardens.

(Tafsir) of Surah Al-Rahman (55), verse 72: “The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying:’The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 slaves and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana’a [Yemen]‘.”

you can hide your face in the sand but we see you….

You forgot biggest sin that Gandhi committed, that cost him his life was 50 crore Indian rupee additional grant to Pakistan, which in today’s terms is 300,000 crore rupees.

As for comparison between Hindu and Muslim being a Muslim brought up in India you can find negative elements in both religions. And as a Muslim I accept that there are more Muslim Fanatics than Hindus in the world. A religion has to be flexible enough to survive and change with times, which is what some fanatics don’t want to happen.

I am impressed by Shahrukh Khan on his views regarding religion, that is what every Hindu and Muslim need to learn.

Q: AR Rahman called you an ‘ambassador of Islam’. What is your perspective for someone to be an ambassador of any faith?
Shah Rukh: Being a model for any religion is not the right thing to be. Religion is a language to seek truth, and each language stands self-sufficient. One language does not express the truth better than any other. Religion to me is personal. Like parents’ memories. I have my father’s specs with me. Karan also has his father’s specs with him. But I can’t say my father’s specs are better than your father’s – how can you do that!

Q: Then how does something so personal become a topic of public dispute?
Shah Rukh: Religion actually is a discipline, a way to do things. It does not equate with spirituality. You become spiritual by believing in the power of Supreme Being. Religion guides you to understand His power faster than you would do experiencing it. I’d tell youngsters now that we need to create a new religion, a new discipline. And that new religion is work. Working with honesty, working hard in the improvement of the place, which you call your own – your country. I think we just need to be more self-assured, self-obsessed, self-sustaining.

@ syed ????
we have the QURAN and SUNNAH and the life of NABEE e KAREEM (SAAW) we do not need low lives to follow or learn.

do any one know that Saudi govt do not issue the visa for umrah to the bollywood ” muslim ” actors.like srk, amir khan or salman khan?
because saudi govt consider them as a hindu.
and they are damn right about them.

Why did you study medical and changed to newer practices mostly invented by ‘westerners’ rather than old world practices.(Assuming you are medical doctor)

Same way we need to incorporate newer learnings into religion. Both Islam and Christianity emerged from Jewish religion incorporating new learnings of time. Christians (well most of them, not all) moved ahead into modern world post Renaissance in medieval age. Muslims in developed Islamic countries (Indonesia, Malaysia, those living in western world, and some of those living in India and few in Pakistan have moved ahead. Its time for others to Join and practice Islam which allows for all other religions to co-exist peacefully.

“Why did you study medical and changed to newer
practices …..
lolsss .what a taunt…….hhahahahah
religion tells you what to do and what not to do.
scince tells you how to do.
seems two separate entities…….right????

“Both Islam and Christianity emerged from Jewish religion
incorporating new learnings of time.

your argument clearly tells us that you have no idea about the histories of religions, what islam is and what is the message ALLAH(swt) wants to convey through prophet Mohammed(saaw).this message is open for every one.
judism emerged after yahooda.jews strictly related themselves as seprate religion followed by specific race.
funny thing is that no one can be converted to be a jew and hence @syed call it a religion.can you tell me what is the message of judism??
no sir it is not a religion.judism doen’t represent a religion, it only represent a race.
christianity emerged after the prophet jeseus(saaw). and funny thing is that it is saint paul who is followed not the prophet jesus(pbuh)
what was the message of prophet jesus(pbuh)?????
(i came to find out the lost sheeps of bani israeel)
yes christianity emerged from judism.
islam is islam.niether it is known as mohammedism nor it is emerged from christianity or judism.
what make you say like that??????

“Same way we need to incorporate newer learnings into
religion.
a sincere piece of advice. do some comparitive study on religions.for me it is most useful study of modern time.
you have dr zakir naik at least you can listen to him.
or at leat you can search the meaning of “SYED”

What were the beliefs of Muslims before prophet Mohammad. I am talking of historical perspective and not religious.
As for comparison of religion, I have been doing that though views I have been reading could be biased as I have not read bible by myself but read books from various people on comparison of three religions based on same roots, Judaism, Islam and Christianity.

I am a devout Muslim and as a devout Muslim I don’t ridicule any religion be it Judaism, Hinduism, Christianity. Each individual has right to follow his/her own beliefs as long as he/she doesn’t hurt sentiments of others.

To begin with this forum seemed like being run by educated people who have their own views. What I didn’t like was ‘attempt to showcase supremacy of Islam’ over all other religions. For me Islam is the only religion that exists, but that doesn’t mean I ridicule followers of others. This is the root cause of all the conflicts world is facing, Christians want to convert rest of world to Christianity, Muslims to Islam and Hindus who never had propagating religion as one of agenda as followers are joining in.

How does it matter to me what religion other people follow. If a Muslim is not following Islam it is my duty and of all other to ‘convince’ him and not anything beyond.

That is the independence of thoughts and beliefs we get in India and nobody cares what are other people’s beliefs except ofcourse for those shiv sena, RSS fanatics and their followers (which contrary to your beliefs is minority among Hindus but as Islamic fundamentalists always take limelight so does hindu ones).

Dear Syed,

I am pleased that you called your self muslim and Devout Muslim -Allhamad u lila.

Well for you to get few facts straight.

1.All prophets from Adam , Noah, Mosess, Younas , ISa to Mohammed pbu them are Muslims and preached Islam – as per Quran.

2.Christianity at present is mostly based on St Pual which in 260- 315 AD was corrupted by a Pagan Greek King Constantine who’s mother was a Christian and on one hand strengthen Christianity and compiled bilble to his taste but also brought a idol worshiping into it.( greek mytholgy ? making it more popular with little understanding – this is bidat i.e something new to religion meaning that a human being is better thinker than Allah.

3.Allah is the God for all religion of books, e.g. Arabic Injil which begins with bismallah widely read in Arabian christians no one is imposing Islam on them.

4. WORD Elohim, Ellahi, ( Allahi) is in books of Jews.
5.In books of Hinduism there is mention of Allah and Mohammed.

No one is imposing Islam on anyone-There is no COMPULSION in Islam and religion.

If u read Quran with meaning and Sahi Bukhari Bidat is haram and anyone who does it punishable by hellfire.

YOUR example of Shahrukh khan or anyone like him is heart aching A person who says he is muslim but prays to Stone or do idol worshipping you must have forgotten Hazrat Mohammed pbuh broke all the idols placed in Kabbah only few time he was in anger and he did not do anything without permission from Allah.

Do you think you or anyone are more compassionate than ALLAH AND REHMAT UL ALMIN Mohammed.
Muslims donot hate anyone but everyone are against muslims.

Being a Muslim for you and us ALLAH words and Mohammed teaching should be above even my father my mother.

cont.

For PRINCE
1. Hoor mentioned in the Qur’an

The word hoor occurs in the Qur’an in no less than four different places:

(1) In Surah Dukhan chapter 44, verse 54

“Moreover, We shall join them to companions
With beautiful, big and lustrous eyes.”
[Al-Qur’an 44:54]

(2) In Surah Al-Tur chapter 52 verse 20

“…And We shall join them to companions, with beautiful,
big and lustrous eyes.”
[Al-Qur’an 52:20]

(3) In Surah Rahman chapter 55 verse 72

“Companions restrained (as to their glances), in goodly pavilions.”
[Al-Qur’an 55:72]

(4) In Surah Al-Waqiah chapter 56 verse 22

“And (there will be) companions with beautiful, big and lustrous eyes.”
[Al-Qur’an 56:22]

2. Meaning of Hoor

The word hoor is actually the plural of ahwar (applicable to man) and of haura (applicable to woman) and signifies a person having eyes characterized by hauar a special quality bestowed upon a good soul, male or female in paradise and it denotes the intense whiteness of the white part of the spiritual eye.

The Qur’an describes in several other verses that in paradise you will have azwaj which mean a pair or spouse or companion which means you will have spouses or companions pure and holy (mutaharratun means pure, holy).

“But give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portion is gardens, beneath which rivers flow. Every time they are fed with fruits therefrom, they say: “Why, this is what we were fed with before”, for they are given things in similitude; and they have therein companions pure (and holy); and they abide therein (forever)”.
[Al-Qur’an 2:25]

“But those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath – their eternal home; therein shall they have companions pure and holy: we shall admit them to shades, cool and ever deepening”. [Al-Qur’an 4:57]

Therefore the word hoor has no specific gender. Mohammad Asad has translated the word hoor as spouse and Abdullah Yusuf Ali as companion. Therefore according to some scholars a man in paradise will have a hoor that is a beautiful maiden with beautiful big and lustrous eyes and a woman in paradise will get a man with beautiful big and lustrous eyes.

http://indianmuslims.in/who-were-the-indian-prophets/

“I am a devout Muslim and as a devout Muslim I don’t
ridicule any religion……

good to hear that you are devout muslim.it is not the matter of nonsense derisiveness,derogation or ridiculing the other religions.it is the matter of understanding of islam.
may i ask you why are you muslim?
are you muslim because you born in muslim family?
or you opted islam after careful study of all religions?
is islam is a only way of salvation or not?
why Allah(swt) send NABEE E KAREEM(saaw)if christianity or judism were sufficient for guidance?
do you really believe that the after earthy life there will be no hereafter.
are we sent here on the earth just to live with peace and hormony? and after earthy life only peaceful people of all religion will go into the heaven and all “terrorist” will go in the hell? if that is the case then i am sorry to say that we do not have any thing common.you keep doing what you see right and we will do according to the guidance given to us “THE QURAN AND SUNNAH” not the hindu looking bollywood actor.

Quran came 6th century.

O’people come out sins and your ego believe in right as little time left.
But if you deny it makes not slightest difference to Allah but onus of your deed falls on you.

Politicians are to blame, india to blame, pakistan to blame. None of these are to blame on either side. including the inept politicians on both sides. I am a bombayite – I refuse to be called a mumbaikar because that is too is part of the problem. Everyone wants to create an issue out of nothing so they can make a mess solving the issue and blame it on the other party. Whether this is regional politics or international politics.

The problem is with religious fundamentalism. Shah Qureshi and Pranab Mukherjee can make bombastic statements. you think they have a choice or care? They are just taking up an issue that has been conveniently provided by factions. The problem lies with religious extremism and what I refer to as Knee Jerk Fundamentalism. Pakistan encouraged training camps so RSS became a Hindu militant organization. You have JeM and LeT so we have Deccan Mujahedeen. Take out religious extremism out of this and everything collapses. Break every damn madrassa (no offence to Muslim religion) and outlaw godmen in India and you dont need politicians to make a bigger mess of our problems. From the indignation I see here in the posts, barring a few, most of the pakistani entries are people that i know that i can co-exist with (never mind that they are fed their side of nationalistic propoganda while i am fed mine) but their thinking is logical, clear and simple to relate to.

Sadly, I type 10 words a minute, and painful as that was, typing this entry is still a walk in the park compared to actually achieving what ive written above which is a guaranteed solution to the problems we are both facing, whether it is Taj India or Marriot Pakistan.

http://ugghani.blogspot.com/2008/12/indias-media-blasted-for-sensational.html

Dear Bombay Guy,

Nice to learn what you have said.

I ll be proud to say and claim as a fundamentalist being are purist but if some one who does not like this put a label as extermist.

As u would agree there is always two opinion to one argument.

As all others, you are seeing what you hearing and being told. But we are dumb to a loud cry and deliberatly ignoring it.

Point is that you cannot win by snubbing ,crubbing, distorting one religion or sect, or organisation because it doesnot agree to you NOW.We have to listen to their point of view.

Last century TERRIORIST AND FUNDAMENTALIST are freedom fighters and heros of today.Are we not going to learn from this.

A big propaganda from Hindus like muslims are intolerent and destroy thier religion how the hell there are 1/2 billion hindus in India today after 1000 yrs of muslim rule.

We have to give right and breathing space to everyone. This what Islam teaches and helping your fellow human being if in trouble and fight for right till last drop.

Missionary schools for christians,Ashrams etc even
Tantaric schools,Night clubs, homosexuality clubs have all the rights to propagate and spread their ideas but why not these MADRAS which have given this world algebra, optics, physics to be blasted – DOUBLE STANDARD.

Why not supporting them and why destroying OR why corrupting. You will get Violence if you u force it.
AND THEN

Somewhere along the line one or most loose sight of real issue.

What I am saying stop blaming each other -charity begins at home.

We do ours you do yours.

Leave us alone search your self look beneath surface and than you probably wont disagree.

Raja

If we leave each other alone, we will drift further apart. 61 years should be proof enough to you. I read in some papers that Pak Taliban now outlaws female education. Propoganda or truth i dont know, but its not healthy. All im saying is dont abandon your faith – I wont mine. But learn to live with differences. I dont say dont do namaaz 5 times a day or dont observe fasts during ramzan. Please do. But violence to any other human is im sure, not taught in Islam or Hindusim or anywhere else. Remember this, a purist only becomes a fundamentalist when he abandons all in favor of single minded goal. Tolerance is important. I have a lot of muslim friends and they all tell me that the concept of jihad is to fight the evils inside ones body, and that it is being grossly misrepresented to teach impressionable minds that it means fight other religions and go to jannat. Is this true? I humbly ask you whether this is true or not. Im sure that if The Prophet taught this then he was on the right path, but someone somewhere misrepresented it to mean something else. Im sure killing women and children is a definite no-no… Why then is it happening? You will agree that irrespective of nationalism it is being done in the name of islam. Why? because people are being misled.

I have a great relations with all my muslim friends on this side of the border. Why not on that side?

I still feel theres a difference between fundamentalism and purity. You say you are a purist. Not so sure, whether you are a fundamentalist… Theres a difference and thats what i am getting at. A purist hindu and a purist muslim can easily get along. A fundamentalist hindu or a fundamentalist muslim wont get along with anyone else. I can co-exist with you, you can eat cow and i can worship it. If im purist ill look the other way when you are eating it. But if im fundamentalist, Ill make an issue of it… I hope you get my point. I look forward to your blog.

Peace be with the world.

yeah forgot to mention – im not saying break down madrasaas which are teaching science / history / philosophy. Just dont teach and propagate fundamentalism (not to be confused with purism)… I hope you get the difference.

Dear Bombay Guy,

To stop violance we have to destroy or disintegrate means of violance.

So India and USA biggest peace keepers or peace lovers of modern worl must lead by example.

So Great India should lead by example again and set an example to follow and set a message of peace to world

Roll back and disintegrate all its nuclear weapon and missile tech,Twice bigger as Pakisatn
4.5 million army 5 times bigger then pakistan and 3 rd largest in world
Airforce 4 times bigger than Pakisatn
Navy 2nd largest in world.

Small and weak nations will follow this immediately and there will be peace because only violance begets violance.

This will bring Peace to region at least. I think you must start this movement.

Raja,

You didnt answer a single question that I posed regarding fundamentalism vs purism. Instead you went into specifics about armies.

There is a difference in having armies and using them. You may own a knife in your kitchen, what differentiates you from a terrorist is that you dont use it while a terrorist does. So if India uses its army in attacking pakistan, then blame india. If it is used as a deterrent but is sheathed then dont blame India.

How come similar issue is not there with Nepal or Bangladesh or Sri Lanka which are also our neighbours? I’ll tell you the answer – the lack of rhetoric which is brought about by religious fundamentalism. I am not trying to paint india as a dove and pakistan as a rogue state by all means and with all due respect. All im saying is that stop trying to deflect the issue with talks of armies and you did this and i did that. That is all secondary, the root of the problem is the fundamentalism which is what im tryign to drive at. Everything else is secondary.

Again i repeat. Are you a purist or a fundamentalist? The answer my friend, will be clear to you…

Peace be with you and the world.

Hi,
Sir, Mumbai Attacks have yet again created tension in south-asia.
India has finally provided the official dossier[1] to Pakistani Govt
on January 5, 2009, which allegedly contains facts.

The Pakistani Govt is preparing official reply, however, various
Pakistani analysts are also analyzing this dossier. It turn out that
official dossier contain many factual errors. Unfortunately much
material is in Urdu, but following link is quite comprehensive:

http://www.brasstacks.pk/pdf/BrassTacks_014_Dance_of_the_devil.pdf

you can skip to page-13 and specially for Dossier analysis skip to
page-66. All I can say, security agencies (like CIA, Mossad, RAW) in
order for __greater good__** kill their own people to create a bigger
plot.

Sir, It should be noted that India-Pakistan tension is not just this
terrorism issue but it is infact beyond that. For example, violation
of “Indus Water Treaty”[2] by building “Baglihar Dam”[3] in the
southern Doda district in Indian Occupied Kashmir, over Chenab river.

It is really unfortunate that in-competent Pakistani Govt didn’t took
stand on this issue[4] (an alleged US-Govt pressure was also
involved).

This leads to following questions:

(1) Don’t you think that Stealing the water of Chenab River is a
threat to Pakistani Agriculture and Pakistani Nation?
and is an example of “state sponsored” terrorism from India?

(2) How can peace process be continued with this back-stabbing?

regards

** possibly to justify their existence and high funding

[1] http://www.hindu.com/nic/dossier.htm

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Waters_Treaty

[3] http://thecurrentaffairs.com/index.php/india-violated-treaty-in-baglihar-dam-case-indus-water-commissioner/

[4] http://www.dawn.com/2008/09/22/ebr4.htm

i think that bomboy attact is very interested history of attacts

Baglihar has been put to rest by international courts also saying that india is right in what it is doing

Pakistan has finally admitted its soil was used for planning terror attack. You harbour criminals, you harbour people like dawood ibrahim, lakhwi and kandahar hijackers and you expect worldwide sympathy? Its a shame that people are using the words pakistan and failed state in teh same breath. this is country of which we were once part of.. and you let this happen to you? It is a few rotten apples and the entire barell is being labeled failed. Stop these before you lose international face. we have no complaint with people of pakistan. Brothers and sisters on the streets. its the religious fundamentalists that are brewing all the trouble.

HI
Bombay gay,

As like before u like to hear what u want to.

In that report it said not only Pakistan but It was masterminded in Spain, uk, and india what about those are u failed state aswell and will as usual going to lick british arse – old habbits die hard.

why donot put blame on them because their and ur soil was used as well.

One advice keep……………

[...] fingers towards India already. One must note that the attack looks erringly too similar to the Mumbai attack but logically one must understand that this could very well be a cover up to instigate a war [...]

I would not blame anyone but whoever did this will pay for it somehow, and I don’t see the point of blaming each other and how U.S. helped in Bombay attack?