Ever since the afternoon of the faithful day when in between the intense fighting at the Lal Masjid, the Pakistan Army victoriously announced the death of the head militant of Lal Masjid Maulana Ghazi Abdul Rashid. Watching the news reports come through on all news channels I did notice that everyone was refraining to tag his death as a Shahdat. For many non-Muslims reading this article, it might seem to be a trivial issue but to a Muslim it means a world of a difference. A simple naming terminology is of no consequence to the soul in this world but it means a phenomenal difference in life-here-after. Quite simply its a decision to be made by Allah for him on the day of the Judgment.
A shaheed is a title that is given to a Muslim after his death, if he died during the fulfillment of a religious commandment. For a moment lets forget the political issues surrounding the crisis, coming to the root of the issue it was Ghazi Abdul Rashid who was defending the integrity of Islam challenging the ineffectiveness of the government in implementing the sharia law hence allowing a progressive degradation of our society. Without doubt Right or Wrong Maulana Shazi Abdul Rashid was defending his place of worship and was fulfilling his religious duties in this process.
Shaheed is a title for a Muslim when he dies for Islam While on the other hand the aggressors (Pakistan Army) were overwhelmingly attacking the mosque to the extent of destroying a large portion of the property throughout the compound. Hence can easily be labeled as aggressors against Islam, which is probably the highest crime for a Muslim. The jawans may be following order but it must be remembered that if one of the jawans were to loose his life in battle against Islam cannot be labeled as a Shaheed simply because he was a Muslim.
I share with you an interesting email I received by Mr. M Javed Iqbal who portrays a very compelling argument, which actually also got me thinking about this important issue. I quote…
During the attack on Lal Masjid and Madarsah Hafsa a question that was repeatedly raised was ‘ Who is “Shaheed” and who is “Halak”.’
In my opinion the distinction is crystal clear. The mistake and mischief lies with the initiator. Who started knocking down masajid in the capital of Islamic Republic of Pakistan? If I am traveling and somebody open fires on me, I have a right to defend myself and fire back at him. Therefore we must understand that what Ghazi brothers did was in self defence. The pity is Mullahs of the country have been corrupted by Musharraf by offering nice salaries and perks to them, hence they failed to point out that the sanctity of a masjid was to be safeguarded at all costs. No Muslim can dare attack a masjid, because it is Allah house.
Accordingly security forces, army men and rangers who attacked Lal Masjid are jahunumi and the fighters of Lal Masjid are shuhdaa and shall Insha Allah Will be rewarded with Paradise. Each officer or jawan must have refused to obey illegal order of attacking a masjid. They could say: “Look sir ! we joined the army to protect the Masajid and save women and children, not for destroying and killing them”.
Since they gave preference to order of the officer over Order of Allah, they are mahluk and jahanumi.
The brave fight back of Ghazi Abdul Rashid is an eye opener. When most of the Mullas just talked he challenged the illegal and immoral acts of Musharraf regime of knocking down 90 year old masajid of Islamabad and kept fighting for the cause till death. On such noble death Mir has said:
Marge Majnun pe aqal gum hai Mir Most Mullas could not see this fine line and remained indifferent, although they could have raised hue and cry against desecration of masajid. We should not forget that Quran says “Allah is Most Powerful and Revengeful” Every party can see his image in this mirror!
Kiya Diwane ne maut pai hai !
Considering the issue, I feel convinced that the sad demise of Ghazi Abdul Rashid should be labeled as a Shaheed and full respect offered to the body in regards to its proper dignified burial. I would hold the Pakistani Army responsible to the extent of disobeying the Islamic Law to which they all have sworn to uphold.
He died defending the religion of Islam against the evil forces.
Comments
1,044 responses to “Shaheed or Halak ? – Ghazi Abdul Rashid”
Shahadat depends upon the intent in heart. The Lal Masjid issue, and the events occured after it are very complex and shrouded.
Lt. Col. Harun ul Islam was indeed shaheed.
His death testified that There is no God but Bush and Musharraf is the messanger of Bush.
How can one justify the occupation of a children’s library which has no link with any unislamic activity, kidnapping of a woman without giving her right to prove her innocence, attack on CD shops and forcing them to shut down without providing any alternative means to earn for their families, kidnapping of policemen as a revenge of arrest of some of their colleagues, setting up parallel courts within a state against the laws of that state, kidnapping of chinese without any proof and without filing any complaint with any local government authority against any illegal activity, snatching arms and equipments from security personnels, firing and killing security personnels, damaging and burning, public and private property, keeping arms and amuntion in a mosque for no apparent reason, not laying arms and firing at security persoonel during the leninecy period of 5 full days, keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endagering their lives (also many of them got killed and without any prosumably), going back on his words again and again during the negotiations and last not least, painting a very bad picture in the eyes of non-muslims about the Islam, which itself is a huge loss to Islamic teachers and the institutions
Everyone saw Abdul Aziz getting caught in Burqa keeping in mind the fact that he was asking his students to get ready for jihad and shahadat. He and Abdul Rasheed had the same view point which Abdul Rasheed was also justifying in one of his interview.
Everone knows that at the end, Abdul Rasheed wanted to surrender and leave everything, even his demand for islamic system in return for a safe passage.
Moral corruption in pakistani society has not started ovenight or in the last 5 months. What was they thinking in the last so many years or should i say decades and why didn’t they protest earlier against unislamic values in the society. No one can deny that Islam can not be imposed by force. If the majority in our society is corrupt, then there is no justification to take law in your hands. One should first show through his examplary attitude and prove to other people that what true Islam is and how can we improve our lives by implementation of Shariah laws in the true sense. If we majority agrees with your view point, then you do what you want to do. Be good Muslim, Preach Islam, Convince others to follow Islam and when you are in majority, bring the laws, which you want to follow. Even then, minorities should have all the right to live peacefully and enjoy freedom of their religious within the boundaries set by majority through demacratic means.
ghazi was smiling after he was shaheed .subhan ulllah
http://daily.urdupoint.com/gallery.php?picId=6054&page1=1&date1=2007-07-22
hey another thing we dont need the americans to do any more, we can desecrate Qurans ourselves..
Mush taking us to selfreliance
ghazi abdul rashid is shsheed
maulana abdul rasheed ghazi shaheed sahib rehmat ullah is truly a shaheed.he was a great person to stand against all unislamic things. May ALLAH ALMIGHTY shower upon him all of his blessings.He will be remembered by those forever who knew him and loved him.
andhairoun kay muqabil aftab aaya hi kartay hain.
bashar jo dat jae to inqilaab aaya hi kartay hain
if somebody is a terrorist its musharaf.not ghazi sahib.musharaf is a qadiani.did u know. how can he let islam being followed.the operation was nothing else than a conspiracy,a sabotage against true muslims and ghazi brothers.and one sign of ghazi sahib`s greatness is that even now beautiful scent is coming from his grave.subhaan allah.
“Islam zinda hota ha har karbala ky baad” we can found many similarities of karbala in this action. Now Foojies are not our “spahies” they are working as very cheep butchers for TAGOOT.
One simple question: Are suicide bombers also shaheed? even if the suicide bombing is for a religious cause.
No one argues the noble work, which Ghazi Sahib may have done during his life time but at the same time we should have the courage to denounce the wrong actions either by Ghazi Sahib or anyone else.
I respect the opinion of every individual but how can we decide who is Shaheed or Halaak. These things are to be judged by ALLAH because he knows everything. SUch discussions can easily devide a nation because everyone could have different opinion based on the knowledge available with him.
shaheedoun ka khoon rang zaroor layay ga.
musharaf`s real side will come in front of all very soon.
if once an agreement took place between the leaders and ministers,then why was there any need to go to the president house.and everything was changed.army came coz the primeminister asked it to as a chief executive then why was sharfu interepting.it was a planned thing.no doubt all the men,women and children are shaheeds.abdul rasheed ghazi zindabad
Good point Ordindary Pakistani, we probably don’t even know the “inside stuff” as they call it of this whole issue. Whether he is a `shaheed` or `halaak`, there can be no denying the fact that innocent people got killed and more importantly, the Army was used against its own people which can only have bad repercussions (as we are seeing). The situation overall is extremely worrying, no one is safe anywhere in Pakistan now (esp. NWFP). God knows how dire situation will become.
Mushharraf has an objective of razing off everything that sounds like Islam. His ambitions are all derived from the “US led war on Islam”. Ghazi’s methods should have been more refined and sensibly crafted, but his objective was right. With so much obscenity, vulgarity and immoral activities going on in our society these days, our blood realy boils too at the present military regime’s outrageous anti-Islamic policies. But we all are practicing is Sabr…. We are sure that the time will come when we all will rise and defend our values and Deen, with the power of Allah behind us. These Liberal elemants are having a tax-free holiday in Musharraf’s regime but Allah will strike on them soon, the believers dont worry they are praying and watching for Allah’s Judgement and eventuality.
I think you are belongs to Fiqa i Jafria
Raza…i agree with you that the situation in Pakistani is very bad and inncocent civilins and security personnels are dying without any objective reason.
First question should be: who is doing this and what are their objectives. Every ordinary pakistani would say without doubt that the people behind this are not muslims and definitely terrorist. They want to destabilize pakistan and indirectly or directly helping those non-muslim powers who want Pakistan to act according to their wishes otherwise these people will continue to harm Pakistan.
Now the question is what an ordinary pakistani should do in this situation? Should he protest and ask Government to step down. The situation today in Pakistan is definitely have its root causes resulting from mainly from the acts of the current government, however some blame is to be shared by previous governments. Religious extermism, availability of weapons across the country, poor performance of security agencies, increasing poverty, widening gap between poor and rich, no or limited education and knowledge availability and many other causes, which are compounding over the last few decades. We elect these people knowing that they are thieves and will not solve our problems only due to lack of education and knowledge. we dont want to think and follow others who think negatively.
An ordinary pakistani should show solidarity with fellow pakistanis and act against all those elements who preach hate, who tell us that America is evil power but their children study there, who are against army rule but negotiate deals with them, who tell poor followers to fight against unislamic rule by killing innocent countrymen and bombing in public places including mosques and schools.
I am not in any way supporting the current regime but i think that that this is not right to blame government for all the suicide bombings and rocket attacks and at the same time justifying these acts as a repercussions of acts by our government or our army.
I am also sad due to deaths of inncocent people in Lal Masjid incident and also on 12 May incident but it doesn’t mean that i should start killing other pakistanis and challenge the writ of the state in order to wage war (which they call jihad) against the government, which as per these elements is unislamic.
I know one thing that Islam has not spread through sword and Quaid-e-Azam had not shot any bullet in order to establish Pakistan.
Shaheed tum se ye keh rehey hain, by Abdul Rasheed Ghazi
Witnesses demand from you “Think of us, forget us not”
march forward and do not excuse these assasins of God lovers
These assassins have cut throats, legs and hands of your sisters brothers and sons,
Do not let them run, catch them by the neck and do the same with them that they have done with God’s dear ones
We are dying for God, be witness to this.
These cruel people do not even consider the hunger and thirst of children who have not taken anything for days.
The breasts of mothers inside the mosque are dried, they can not feed their innocents.
We are dying, remember us
and remember the courage and bravery we are showing to save the name and grandeur of God
You must follow us to meet us in heaven
And it is only if you die saving protecting the grandeur of God and Prophet Mohammad.
Remember us: we are dying to give you life and respect and to protect our faith.
(a friend translated this poem, composed and sung by Maulana Abdul Rasheed Ghazi at Lal Masjid. I asked my friend to do this translation so that Westerners like me who do not understand Urdu can stop and reflect rather than hastily classify what happened at Lal Masjid according to the cliches of the media. But I also asked him because the decision of the government to bury
the persons who died at Lal Masjid giving witness of their faith in mass graves is a profanation of their memory, of the rights of their relatives and friends to mourn them according to their faith, and of human dignity. This poem expresses what they died for, and we all – Muslims and not – owe it to their memory to try to understand it.
As to the use of “witness” to translate “Shaheed”: this is my only interference. My friend would have prefered “martyr”, at first. But in western languages, the understanding of “martyr” is influenced by the fact that the first christians martyrs died convinced that the second coming of the Messiah was imminent, that it would put an end to this world, and that life on earth was therefore of little or no worth: this is why the first christian “martyrs” could see the ridiculous indignity of being eaten by lions for the amusement of the emperor and the people as a way to bear witness to God, for instance. And this contempt of life associated with “martyr” in christian cultures is completely wrong for the persons who also died at Lal Masjid “to give us life and respect”. So in the end my friend accepted the translation of “shaheed” by “witness”) .
I can only hope that common sense should prevail and poeple can see straight and understand the things themselves rather than using the eyes and minds of other people to think.
Claude….which western country you are from? I am surprised that even the non-muslims are crying and saluting Ghazi Sahib with so much conviction. Instead of Ghazi Sahib and other criminals, we should feel sorry and pray for those innocent people including students who were not involved in these matters but got killed due to cross fire between the two parties. Would you be comfortable with the thought that a group of religious students headed by their teacher in your country do the same as they have done in Islamabad (illegal encroachment, illegal occupation of a childrens library, kidnapping of a woman, policemen, foreigners (Chinese), attack on businesses, setting up parallel courts, keeping arms in the religious seminary, snatching arms and equipments from policemen, firing and killing security personnel, damaging and burning public and private property and at the end not surrendering and keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endangering their lives). If you belive in the acts of Ghazi Sahib (as you said that it gave you life and respect), then you would definitely appreciate the acts of 9/11, where more than 3,000 innocents lost their lives for no reason.
The poem above does not reflect what Ghazi Sahib die for. Rather it incites people to take revenge and fight against the rule of law. What is your motive to spread this hate message?
How are you so sure that people died in this incident have been buried in mass graves. Are you not playing in the hands of media and without any solid evidence playing with our feelings.
Molana Abdul Rasheed Ghazi is shaheed and Pak-amry personals are Halak.
ABDUL RASHEED GHAZI SHAHEED was and is our nations hero.he become example for all muslims in our nation.we r proud that he is shaheed for a good cause(islam).if we compare ourself with all the students of jamia hafsa and abdul rasheed ghazi
then we examin that we r not true muslims..inshahallah his shahadat is not becomes lose for us….amin..!
Please rather than to speak its better to not only think but should have some knowledge..you people donot know that according to pakistan law you can make masjid at government land but not at personal..so tgis land was authorized to educational insititute and unfortunately when a institute couldnt be made till 6 years then mr zia dedicated this land to mr abdullah gazhi..and it was alloted and after him again now itd started disscussion..and according tolaw if that is government property then too they cant fell it…and for your very kind information…..masjide zarar was occupied by munafiqin (see mirror to see munafiq) and those munafiqin hadnt any quranic page even and they didnt teach any islamic revolution..they just made concipiracy against islamto vanish islam not like mr abdul rashid gazhi shaheed , who wanted to save islam from those people who are used to go to pimp houses(see miror again)
[>>>How are you so sure that people died in this incident have been buried in mass graves. Are you not playing in the hands of media and without any solid evidence playing with our feelings]
I take it that by raising suspicion about the dead having been buried in mass graves you are attempting to cast a doubt over the high death toll claimed by those who dont claim solidarity with the uniformed dictator. First of all it is not JUST the media that reported the huge number of men, women and children who were mercilessly killed by the Jawans of Pak army on 10, June 2007. Members of the media were in fact to be shot on sight by the orders of the Pak army if they as much as approached any of the many hospitals where 20 buses with shuttered down windows, numerous ambulances and the many armored vehicles time and again rushed the dead and injured.
There are many from the civil society, the parliament and the ranks of military who have assented that the death toll of the operation Silence/Sunrise is very high indeed. General (Retd.) Mirza Aslam Baig, an ex- Chief of the Army Staff, is not a name you dont bracket with the most influential figures in the country whose insight into matters of national concern draws from the inside information someone is his position has. In one of his recent interviews to an Urdu Daily [Ummat, issue: 30, July, 2007 – page 3] he made the following statement to one of the questions posed [and I translate verbatim]: “The kind of force used is out-and-out deplorable. Flame Throwers were used so that if there were fifteen girls in a room they all got burnt [by the flame]. Flame Thrower is a weapon an army fires into the enemy bunkers through a hole/vent that lets air in to make sure that everyone inside is burnt alive debris inside the Jamia Hafza had been so [callously dumped] that soon as someone scratched the surface of the wreckage, they hit a human bone, blood stained clothes, or everyday stuff used by children. This [irrevocably] proves that it was a vast number who were rendered shaheed [during the attack].
Before this, the army has admitted using White Phosphorus during operation Silence/ Sunrise. Aijazul Haq, the damned minister himself admitted that “White Phosphorus had indeed been used against those barricaded in the Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza. And we are all witness through live TV coverage to the continuous and heavy artillery attacks that rocked Islamabad throughout the days of siege.
Only Musharrafs minions could rationalize for flame throwers, white phosphorus and heavy artillery shelling to have been used for neutralizing 250 odd men their leader claim to have killed during the attack. Only they would accept on blind faith the death toll given by those whose soldiers callously dumped pages upon pages of Allahs holy book in an open sewerage line [May Allah forgive us for sitting idly and nitpicking on the issue of this desecration of the Quran and not setting out to beat the hell out of those responsible for this sacrilege act].
Circulating in various government and non-government circles, the conservative estimate of the number of innocent women and children killed in the Jamia Hafza and Lal Masjid massacre is somewhere around 2200. These innocent people were massacred and their bodies were dumped somewhere out of sight. Reported in Ummat [issue 31 July, 2007 Page 8] is two pieces of news that give insight into that number. According to one piece of news, when during the parliamentary session, members of the opposition repeatedly referred to the dead in the army operation on Lal Masjid operation as being in the thousands, none of the members of the ruling coalition raised a point of objection to it or stood up to contradict it. In the same session, a petition was filed with the Speaker to have an independent commission be set up to investigate the disappearance of “2200 to 2300 female students during the attack on Jamia Hafza.
dear all, Jamia hafza main army nay fasforas bomb painkay hain jin say iron b pigal jata hay insan tuinsan hay.. and they were not 22 to 2300 they were more than 2800 in side. mari cousins wahan theen woh b parhateen theen un kay mutabiq tu round about 3000 talbat aur talibelam wahan thay jab woh log nikleen wahan say tu aur un logon kaybahad tu koi 50 log aur bahar aey hain not more than this.. ghalib imkan hay 2800-3000 bachay, khawateen aur larkay wahan shaheed huay hain…
dusri bat ab b agar koi government ya army ka sath daita hay tu mujay hairat hoti hay keh woh khud ko muslaman kesay keh sakta hay. munafeen ki yahee tu nishani hay keh jab kurbani ka time ata hay tu peechay hat jata hay.. Mulana Gazi sb shaheed ki tarha kay muslman hain abi mojjood aur un he logon ki waja say yeh dunya b baqi hay warna tu Allah ka kanoon aur Allah ka ghazab bhut sakhat hay….. ham sab jantay hain….
Mari tu dua hay keh Allah es army ko aur es government kay har banday ko bata day keh asal badshah whohi hay aur us nay abi tak zalmon ki rasi lambi ki hui thi… Ameen…..
Dear Haq….I am not at all justifying the deaths of innocent people during this operation. But there is no solid evidence that around 2200 people have died in this incident. If so many people have died and everything is so obvious with so many indications, then why is anyone not going to court?
Secondly, when it was repeatedly announced for continuously five days that people inside should come out and they will not be harmed, then what is the justification of anyone still hiding inside (that also in such large numbers). At the same time, how can you justify armed men in a mosque (everyone saw men with gas masks and guns in their hands at the roof top. Is it a true picture of Islam?). Who killed the rangers personnel at the start of this incidence and Army has not killed 10 of their own men. Most of the people say that Ghazi Sahib’s methods were wrong but his objective was right, therefore he is Shaheed. I cant comment in whether he is shaheed or Halak as Allah knows the best but i only have to say one thing that is it justified to committ a crime even it is for a noble cause.
These cospiracy theories will continue forever same like 9/11 because in such cases, an ordinary person cant have the complete truth so we should try to accept and spread onlt that information, which is true and is supported by proper evidence.
Dear Saadia……Pakistan army is not consist of Aliens. These are pakistanis and they are not all from ruling family family. Majority of them are family members of ordianry pakistanis. If an error has been committed by an officer or commander, we cant blame the whole organization. If we curse them, then ultimately we are cursing millions of Pakistanis. Army as an organization will have problems, no doubt because social and moral corruption in pakistan will be reflected in all its institutions whether public or private.
I have one question for all those who are now crying for Ghazi Sahib and his noble cause: where were all these people before and during the lal masjid incidence. If they support Ghazi Sahib’s actions, they should have helped him and given their lives along with Ghazi Sahib. What had happened to them and their beliefs at that time. Why Ghazi Sahib’s own brother escaped in burqa. Why didn’t he fight along with other people when he was always preaching jihad and shahadat to his students. What was they thinking in the last so many years or should i say decades and why didnt they protest earlier against unislamic values in the society. Only when government asked them to remove illegal encroachment from government land, they started acting like this.
[>>>If you belive [sic] in the acts of Ghazi Sahib (as you said that it gave you life and respect), then you would definitely appreciate the acts of 9/11, where more than 3,000 innocents lost their lives for no reason.]
Interestingly, imploring in your post that your feelings not be played with over incidents cited by the local media regarding the death toll of the military operation in Lal Masjid without proof, you mention in the same breath the 9/11 attacks for which to this day the US government has not been able to offer any concrete evidence proving involvement of external elements including Muslim Arabs..
What happened on 9/11 was an atrocious event orchestrated by the US government against its own citizens [just as they did in Pearl Harbor] to perpetuate its agenda of waging a crusade against Islam. That is NO LOBGER CONSIDERD JUST A CONSPIRACY THEORYthree out of four Americans now firmly believe that it was the US government itself that clandestinely staged the coming down of the twin towers on September the eleventh. Please refer to the following links and read for yourself. [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=435265&in_page_id=1811&in_page_id=1811&expand=true] [http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20060405112622982]
And what defies logic completely is that how to you is the US government-staged terrorist “act of 9/11 analogous to what you have referred to as “acts of Ghazi Shaheed? The terrorist “act of 9/11 was conspired by the Bush administration for it to lead to set of calculated events that would help the US government curb the growing influence of Islam in the world, protect Israeli interests in the Middle East, take control of the vast fossil fuel reserves of the Muslim world and to keep a check on the emerging world economy, China? The toppling of the twin towers led to the death of [and having gone missing] 2,997 American civilians. Since then the US and coalition led “Operation Enduring Freedom,” Pentagon’s public-relations name for its war on terror has caused deaths of 832962 and seriously injuring1590895 in Afghanistan and in Iraq. Which means 277 times as many Afghans and Iraqis have been killed in the war on terror than the 2,997 killed or missing in on 9/11. More than 16 times as many Afghans and Iraqis have been killed than every person killed in all terrorist attacks worldwide since 1968. [http://www.unknownnews.net/casualties.html]
Please enlighten us how from your standpoint are 832962 deaths, 1590895 injured, complete destruction of the infrastructure of two countries, violation of human rights in Guantanamo Bay and Al Ghraib prison comparable to “acts of Ghazi Shaeed? You seem very good at posing questions. Try answering one.
What Ghazi Shaheed advocated, what you call his “acts, and was killed for and what happened on 9/11 are incidents related only through the repercussions of the crusade led by a Christian coalition on Islam and supported by liberal extremists amongst the ranks of Muslims.
Dear Haq
Interestingly, you have changed the topic and discussion, which were having. Kindly note that in my earlier message, I didn’t put the blame of 9/11 incident to any party. Also, i have not favoured any of America’s acts either in Iraq or Afghanistan. I dont know where all of a sudden it has come from? For most of us it is very easy to link everything to America, Israel or Jews and blame them for everything rather than looking at our errors, wrong judgements and degrading morals.
The point i was trying to make here was that any wrong acts of anybody should not be justified only because these acts were carried out as a retaliation of something or they were towards a noble cause. Wrong is wrong and it does not become right because intentions were good.
If you agree that i am good at posting questions, then try finding the answers of these questions so that things become more clear, which will help definitely in making right judgements and decisions.
One question which i repeat here: Why, at the end, Ghazi Sahib wanted to surrender and leave everything, even his demand for islamic system in return for a safe passage. Now dont tell me that this is one side of picture. We heard it on TV and we heard it from other respectable maulanas and alims who were involved in these negotiations.
Kindly note that i am not at all justifying the way, army action has been carried out.
There are numerous reports in the media about Ghazi grave having a perfume smell. A couple of days ago at the graduation cerenomy at Jamia Usmania in lahore I met two people who swore by Allah that they went to the grave and it had a sweet smell (khushbu) to it. I make this declaration by Allah that I asked both those people to swear by Allah as to this being true. Further more people who have been to the grave of Maulana Musa of Jamia Asharafia who died and his grave gave kushbu seems to have the same smell as ghazis grave.
Any ways regarding Abdual Aziz making state within a state is in accurate. I had a discussion with a prominent mufti about it. He said the method was doubtful. Then I asked him that when you look at it, the lal masjid people never implement the hadud laws i.e. never gave sharia punishement. At most they did was do amar bil maruf wa nahi al munkar with power so how could that be wrong? And mufti said to me that when you put it that way, there was nothing wrong with their methodology.
Usman….just imagine about the situation if every person starts doing amar bil maruf wa nahi al munkar with “power”. If they were right and there was nothing wrong with their actions, then it should be the duty of every mufti, every aalim and every muslim to do the same. But this is not the case.
If you list down all the actions carried out by Ghazi Sahib and his team, you will find many of their actions, which will not be supported by a mufti or an aalim.
Islam has not spread through sword and power used to impose one’s beliefs have always backfired.
Please allow me to clarify my intentions for posting on this or any other blog on this particular subject. My objectives for doing so are far removed from engaging anyone in a discussion or a debate. I am totally not interested in letting myself be drawn into endless arguments with people with whom I share no common point of reference because I cannot be convinced against my conviction that thousands of rasikh-ul-aqeeda musalman men, women and children were unjustifiably MASSACRED in Operation Silence/Sunrise by the orders of a tyrant. Neither do I wish to convince any liberal extremist to the contrary.
Up until 10 July, 2007 I stood in league of citizens of Pakistan who have supported Musharraf over the last 8 years thinking that his unconstitutional occupancy of the country came to be vital to our survival after 9/11. But people like me also saw that while the dictator used one hand for getting Pakistan out of troubled waters, he underhandedly put into motion a series of events aimed at rooting out Islam as deen from the country. Operation Silence/Sunrise was one such event he expertly masterminded.
Changed for ever by what I witnessed on 10 July, I will never be able to forgive myself for not having been there by Ghazi sahibs side to help him in a cause that goes beyond individual interests, beyond national interests and beyond what is so popularly being called the “writ of the governmentthe enforcing of Allahs writ in a land whose constitution guarantees the implementation of that writ.
My postings are intended to pick out, expose and set the record straight on disinformation about Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza posted by liberal extremists of the pro-musharraf camp, misconceptions of mislead liberals [who may or may not subscribe to the policies of the military regime] based on disinformation provided by the former, trolling of liberal extremists [deliberately posting false information in order to bait naive users, who believe in an ideology passionately but are not eloquent enough to word their argument, into responding so that they can tear apart their ineloquence with their cold logic making it sound that they have won the argument], and strategically conceived rhetoric and analogies aimed at confusing moderate elements of the society.
Beyond this point I will not engage in a one-to-one with any user. I would like to point out one more time my belief that the following post had malicious intent and that my response bare that intent by showing the maliciousness of the analogy drawn.
[>>>If you belive [sic] in the acts of Ghazi Sahib (as you said that it gave you life and respect), then you would definitely appreciate the acts of 9/11, where more than 3,000 innocents [sic] lost their lives for no reason.]
If one analyses this sentence on structure, it has two parts (1) “If you belive [sic] in the acts of Ghazi Sahib and (2) “then you would definitely appreciate the acts of 9/11….
Part (1) of this sentence speaks of the actions of a certain person while part (2) speaks of a certain event. The two actions are made to RELATE TO each other by the words “if you and “then you with the QULAIFIERS “believe and “appreciate qualifying the two actions.
By ALL STANDARDS this sentence draws an ANALOGY [an inference that if things agree in some respects, they agree also in others]between what Ghazi Sahib did [“acts of Ghazi Sahib] and what happened when the World Trade Center buildings in NY came down by the “terrorist acts [the acts of 9/11]. It is like saying “If you like toffees, you will definitely appreciate chocolate meaning that the essence of sweetness, nuclear to both toffees and chocolate is what the person in question appreciates. In drawing an analogy therefore one applies the “this JUST AS that reasoning, comparing issues or entities that are similar in quality or quantity.
So I believe that contrary to what you are asserting as explanation [>>>The point i [sec] was trying to make here was that any wrong acts of anybody should not be justified only because these acts were carried out as a retaliation of something or they were towards a noble cause.], what you were trying INDEED to assert obliquely was that there is A commonality between the two “acts. And we all know that the “act of 9/11 is adamantly referred to as “terrorism by the western powers and their media, and is adamantly [and falsely] attributed to Muslims by both. Had your intention not been to equate Ghazi Shaheeds “acts to terrorism, you would not have used for your analogy one of the worst acts of terrorism sponsored by a government this side of the millennium. If one is to accept your analogy as correct, then one who supports Ghazi Shaheeds demand for implementation of Islamic Sharia as guaranteed in the constitution of Pakistan then one should support the terrorist act of 9/11 planed and executed by the United States Government.
Whereas three out of four Americans [75 % of the population] now firmly believe that it was their own, the US government itself that clandestinely staged the coming down of the Twin Towers on September the eleventh, liberal extremists in Pakistan continue to hold steadfastly and faithfully on to the propaganda of Bush and his camp that it was Muslim Arabs who carried out the attacks.
The only reason why I have spent a lot of time and energy in analyzing this post is to show moderate elements out there how the liberal extremist trolls cleverly guise their malicious intent against the fundamentals of Islam as innocent-sounding rhetoric in the best tradition General Pervez Musharraf who under guise of “enlightened moderation is wiping out every vestige of Islam from the country. Lets all beware.
well u all say his demand and intension was to impose sharia…..can anyone tell me if it is granted or permitted which sharia would be imposed in pakistan….there are so many sects in pak…shia would demand their beleifs as shariat….sunnis n alhadis would like to have their beliefs as final verdict n there are innumerable firqas in pakistan….which shariat you talk about??????????
one of you said why government does not take notice for killings by iltaf hussain in karachi…..well my dear every body is shouting that iltaf hussain did that y cant somebody rise above n be a witness in court of law, instead of shouting outside the court…..if cheif justice issue can be taken to court people should go to court again for iltaf hussain or anybody who is labelled as a murderer.
has anybody noticed where mr ghazi’s wife is? she is with his family in f 10 n she was set free after usual investigation…..people claim government tht they have killed them or arressted them……if govt can arrest maulana aziz n his wife n many other people from lal masjid they can arrest rasheed’s wife as well in open…..she did not attend his funeral as well…..n i hv a clue i may be wrong she does not support him( wise lady)….n my residence is also in f 10 n i know her where abouts…..n ihv inquired from the neighbours n they confirm that she is with his family
n mr ghazee was apaid employee or maulvi oof the masjid..he did not own the mosque…..if police tells u to leave or quit any citizen does not have a right to attack the police even claiming tht they have licensed weapons….u cannot challange the law…..-pak has good relations with china n the politicians in the past who were given safe passages according to u were not directly involved in killings or kidnapping of chinese…..but these ghazee brothers are….
shihadat or jihad cannot be carried out like that…for example today i decide for jihad against govt n im killed its not jihad or shihadat.
nobody can create a state within the state or do jihad etc against the king unless ” the king directly announces for kufr”…what ever they claim as fihashi etc its not tht it started in musharraf times…..it has been since pakistan was created as on the map of world…..
everybody on tv has seen them with bamboos, weapons etc …they have destroyed shops of cd owners etc….who r they???? caliph????? they shd have provided them money for alternate business n these cd shops also contain quranioc cds…..they also were destroyed …at tht time nobody shouted tht quran ki baihurmati hui…..
we or any body do not have the right to decide who is non muslim n who is not….their veiled students on geo said ” the soldiers who died durin operation were kafirs n were killed by Allah not us”…lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…..
everything they have done like kidnapping etc was a reaction according to them…
he used women n kids as a sheild ….my cousin was in the operation….he is in army…he said when ghazi was killed n they went inside many doors were locked n in every room there was suicide bomber….one was successful in blast n one was killed……
anyways its a long debate….they were just fasadees n nothing else….
You want to "pick out, expose and set the record straight on disinformation" but at the same time you dont want to discuss with people with whom you dont share common point of reference because you cannot be convinced against your conviction about this particular matter.
Just to remind you that it was you who engaged me and started the whole discussion. I believe that this in fact is the dilemna of our nation that we want others to agree with what we believe in but at the same time, we dont want to listen to others point of view. Allah is the best judge of who has malicious intent and who is spreading the disinformation
[Haq said>>>If one is to accept your analogy as correct, then one who supports Ghazi Shaheeds demand for implementation of Islamic Sharia as guaranteed in the constitution of Pakistan then one should support the terrorist act of 9/11 planed and executed by the United States Government.]
I make myself clear here i have no doubt that Pakistan was acquired in the name of Islam and Islam should be the basis of all the laws in Pakistan as guaranteed in the constitution of Pakistan.
By "acts", i meant the wrong acts of Ghazi Sahib and 9/11 acts can not be justified even if any of such acts were towards a noble cause.
One should also accept the fact that the following are criminal "acts" as per Pakistani law or even Islam does not allow such things:
Illegal encroachment on a government land,
Illegal occupation of a childerns' library,
Kidnapping and illegal confinement of women,
attack on businesses and forcing them to shut down,
Kidnapping of policemen,
Setting up parallel courts within a state against the laws of that state,
Kidnapping and illegal confinement of foreigners,
Snatching arms and equipments from security personnels,
Firing and killing security personnels,
damaging and burning, public and private property,
Keeping arms and amuntion in a mosque for no apparent reason,
not laying arms on the request of authorities and firing at security personnel during the leninecy period of 5 full days,
keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endagering their lives (also many of them got killed during the operation).
A person with an open mind will not accept that the above acts were committed so that Islamic Sharia laws could be implemented in the country.
And when Ghazi Sahib agreed to surrender everything including his demand for Islamic system in return for a safe passage and honorable exit from the mosque (we heard live convesation on TV set), then people started questioning his sincerity for this noble cause of implementation of Islamic Sharia in the country.
A lot of inncocent people died during the operation, which is very sad. But i fail to understand that when it was repeatedly announced for continuously five days that people inside should come out, and they will not be harmed, then what is the justification of anyone still hiding inside otherwise they wre being kept there against their own will.
The way people have acted during Juma prayer on last friday has not painted a good picture of Islam and their demand for islamic sharia in the country. They ever tried to repaint the mosque in red, which is just bricks and cement and does not represent any ideology in itself.
i love GHAZI SHAHEED………
islam allow jihad to stop bad deeds ..such women selling there bodies ‘n’ man selling bad cd’s it is allowed in islam ……..
burai ko hath say roko ……..
u can’t kill someone on acting on islam
Shaheeeeeeeeeed…………….
pak army sold out …………..
saadia Habib i agree with u……….
OrdinaryPakistani,
Actually islam is quite clear in this matter.
regarding the governemnt and ruling by other than sharia please study surah Al Maidah in detail..
verse 44 of surah maidah has
Those who do not judge by Allah’s revelations they are the kafirun.
http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=477
http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=278
regarding amr bil maruf.. its completely clear in islam..
(from http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=345)
Allah the Most High said: Let there be among you a community who enjoin good and forbid evil; it is they that shall be successful, [3:104] and: You are the best community that has ever been brought forth for mankind: you enjoin good and forbid evil, and you believe in God, [3:110] and: Those who repent, those who worship, those who praise, those who persevere, those who bow down, those who prostrate, and those who enjoin good and forbid evil, [9:112] and: Those of the Israelites who were unbelievers have already been cursed on the tongue of David and Jesus, son of Mary, for they were disobedient, and transgressed. They did not forbid one another from committing the evil that they wrought. What they used to do was foul indeed. [5:79] The Qur’an is full of passages which treat of this subject.
Muslim relates on the authority of Abu Sa`id (radhiallahu `anhu) that the Prophet sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam said, “Whoever sees something evil should change it with his hand. If he cannot, then with his tongue; and if he cannot do even that, then in his heart. That is the weakest degree of faith.”
He also relates on the authority of Ibn Mas`ud that the Prophet (sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam) said, “There was not a single Prophet among those who were sent before me who did not have apostles and companions and followed his Sunna and obeyed his commands. But afterwards other generations came whose words belied their deeds, and whose deeds were not in accordance with what they commanded others to do. Whoever struggles against the with his hand is a believer. Whoever struggles against them with his tongue is a believer. And whoever struggles against them with his heart is a believer. But when none of these things are done, then not a single mustard’s seed weight of faith is present.”
Anyone doing amr bil maruf will ofourse be responsible for his actions if he is wrong. e.g. if Aunty Shamim was a naik parween.
Dear Osman…..I am happy that you are atleast discussing these things through logic and in the light of Islamic teachings which is also benefiting me in so many ways. At one time, I was asking myself: are the rulers of Pakistan or any other so called Muslim countries Kafirs, who will decide that and if they are, then isnt this the duty of every Muslim specially learned muftis and aalims to demand the implementation of Shariah laws, should such demand be with force etc.
I did some research on my own and came up with the following answers for myself.
I totally agree with you that it is the duty of every believer to carry out Nahi anil Munkar (stop others from evil). This is not the responsibility of a few individuals but the entire Ummah of our Nabi.
A person is required to carry out Nahi anil Munkar according to his capacity and authority. For example a Qaadhi may do Nahi anil Munkar with force. A layman may carry out Nahi anil Munkar verbally by encouraging a person to refrain from Haraam. In some instances one cannot do Nahi Anil Munkar physically nor verbally, in this instance one should ponder over ways in trying to correct the wrong. It is therefore incorrect to state that Nahi anil Munkar can only be done with force or power.
Also, a person should be held accountable if he accuses someone based on a wrong judgement and without any proper evidence. As far as I know, in islam, accusations like the one on Mrs. Shamim should be witnessed by four righteous (rasikh-ul-aqeeda) muslims. Some of the other acts of Lal Masjid people are also not justifiable (Illegal encroachment on a government land, Illegal occupation of a childerns library, Kidnapping and illegal confinement of women, attack on businesses and forcing them to shut down, Kidnapping of policemen, Setting up parallel courts within a state against the laws of that state, Kidnapping and illegal confinement of foreigners, Snatching arms and equipments from security personnels, Firing and killing security personnels, damaging and burning, public and private property, Keeping arms and amuntion in a mosque for no apparent reason, not laying arms on the request of authorities and firing at security personnel during the leniency period of 5 full days, keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endagering their lives, also many of them got killed during the operation)
Allah says:
“O you who believe, obey Allaah and obey His Messenger, and the people in authority among you. And if you dispute over anything, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger if you really believe in Allaah and the Last Day, that is best in terms of consequences.” (4:59)
Allah Taala orders us to obey Allah, His Rasul [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] and the Ulul amr (people of law). The Ulul amr are Muslim rulers. In this respect, to obey Muslim rulers is part of faith as that is the order of Allah. In order to be a Muslim, one should say Kalma and also believe in the basic aspects of Deen. For example, Salaat, Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] being the final Prophet of Allah, Zakaat, Hajj, etc.
If the governments of the Muslim countries do not rule by Shariah law, they are sinful but that does not take them out of the fold of Islam. Their un-Islamic activities are major sins. However, that does not constitute Kufr. Declaring someone as a Kaafir is a sensitive issue and we should exercise precaution on that.
If the government rules against the Shariah, that is a major sin and cannot be accepted. I agree that people should not accept any rule of government which is against the Shariah. But in the case of lal masjid, there were no such orders where they were asked to carry out any unislamic acts. Many respectable Muftis and Aalims denounced their acts and no one came forward to support them during the course of this incident.
[faisal >>>N THOSE IDIOTS WOMEN IN VEILS N MALE STUDENTSW [sic] WHO SURRENDER SHD HAVE DIED AS WELL]
And they called those inside the Lal Masjid “Terrorists”! Ironic isn’t it!!
main dawat deta hoon mr faisal ko please aap aain aour mehsoos karain kh rojhan main kitni khushboo hay aour ghazi abdur rasheed ki qaber say kitni khushbo hay
lal masjid main jitni talba&talibat jo mar gay wo shaheed hain jo bach gay wo ghazi hain
[faisal>> well u all say his demand and intension was to impose sharia..can anyone tell me if it is granted or permitted which sharia would be imposed in pakistan.there are so many sects in pakshia would demand their beleifs as shariat.sunnis n alhadis would like to have their beliefs as final verdict n there are innumerable firqas in pakistan.which shariat you talk about??????????]
“Only two things are infinite – the universe and human stupidity,” Einstein once remarked, “and I’m not sure about the former.” And I couldnt agree with him more. This is why I usually steer clear of posts the intelligence of whose content is directly proportional to the stupidity of their writers. But there, in the filth poured out in this post, there is a bone of contention I would like to pick on.
This particular argument has been raised [more intelligently, off course] time and again by wayward liberals and miscreant liberal extremists on various platforms to make the idea of implementation of Shariah sound hopeless and impossible on the basis of the many sects that the followers of Islam have come to divide themselves into over the centuries with each sect having their own interpretation of the various aspects of the Shariah. Shaikh Rasheed, Minister of Railway, another liberal extremist who mouths his dictating presidents words day and night, in fact used just about the same words in answering a related question once on TV. What these liberal extremists are saying in other words is that Islamic Shariah cannot be implemented for this reason [or that] and should hence be abandoned in favor of the more liberal, secular and western laws. So effectively, being vigorously demonized by the west, the Islamic Shariah is being misrepresented by their friends, the liberal extremists in the Muslim world.
To answer these miscreants, we need to first understand what Shariah actually means. All prophets have taught essentially the same Deen, the essence of which is to accept Allah as the ruler of the universe and the prophets as His representatives, each of whom have demanded their respective nations to obey what Allah has revealed as His Divine Law, the Shariah revealed for that particular nation.
Shariah, or Islamic law, therefore guides Muslim behavior in every aspect of life, from matters between the individual and Allah to relationships with others, and also include matter like Islamic worship, Family relations, Inheritance, Commerce, Property law, Civil (tort) law, Criminal law, Administration, Taxation, Constitution, International Relations, War and Ethics etc. So it not only gives the guidelines to moral behavior in pure but also through various other facets of life. Nothing we do in our daily existence or through our lifetime falls outside the parameters of the dictates of Shariah.
Major schools of Islamic law, or madhhabs or “ways of going”, had formed among Muslim communities by about 1100 CE. They were named after the pioneering jurists of early Muslim history: the Hanafi (after Abu Hanifa, 702-767 CE), the Maliki (after Malik ibn Anas, 717-801 CE), the Shafii (after Muhammad Idris al-Shafi, 769-820 CE), and the Hanbali (after Ahmed ibn Hanbal 778-855 CE), and the Jaafari or Imami (after Abu Jafar Muhammad al-Baqir and Jafar Sadiq, 702-765 CE)
Although these madhhabs, or the various schools of thought differ in their approaches to handling the sources of the Divine law or in the way they apply principles of reaching decisions, they all agree on the sources of Islamic law are united on the original sources of guidance, the Quran and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad. Just as the same Deen can manifest itself into a number of different codes of life [for the nations of various prophets] it can also manifest, at a secondary level, into numerous schools of jurisprudence, all of which are in agreement regarding the fundamentals but differing in minor issues of detail. So to say “implementation of whose Shariah should one favour is a cleverly concealed way of showing disdain to Islam itself.
Even in a country where they are a minority [1,591,000 forming 2.7% of the total population] 4 out of 10 British Muslims [40 percent of the muslim population] today want Shariah law introduced into parts of the country, a survey done by The ICM opinion poll for the dally Telegraph reveals. [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml]. Here in Pakistan liberal extremists are casting doubt over the Shariah itself, falsely calling it a fragmented unit of Islam just so that in comparison they can passionately advocate the secular liberalism they find so close to their hearts.
When it comes to secular democracy, the question “whose rule should we let prevail since there are people who support different candidates the simplest solution chosen is considered by ALL to be the best, i.e let the majority decide and let their representatives rule. But when it comes to the Islamic Shariah, suddenly “whose Shariah should we let implement becomes the biggest bottleneck to the implementation of Shariah.
In an Islamic republic like Pakistan, the majority Fiqh should be used as the basis for legislation or “Public Law” and the state should then give complete and absolute freedom to all its citizens to practice their own Fiqh in matters of worship, rituals, marriage and divorce laws, etc. The state should never interfere in these matters.
Such an outcome would however never be acceptable to at least the liberal extremists who are all too happy to let the sectarian ambiguity of Islam keep the implementation of Shariah at bay. That is what ensures the enforcing of their secular liberal values on the rest of us.
[>>>faisal: GHAZEE BASTARD KIS KHAIT KI MOOLI HAI] [>>>Arif: USS LAWANAY DI WOTI tai oday maran tai aai naionay wi shukar kita hona harami kolon picha chut gia]
I may have serious disagreements with a person but i would never call them such names. But then agian, self-restraint is the culmination of a lifetime of good breeding. I would implore the more moderate forces out there to see for themselves the “enligtened moderation” inculcated by Musharraf in his ranks. May Allah help us all see things as they really are.
well any muslim worth his name knows that maulana rashid died a death of highest grade martyr,he is definitely shaheed,,,he and his comapanions relived the karballa tragedy of 1400 years back,and just like imam husain lal mosque people gave away their lives for islam.may allah bless them and make other people like them
army men did this lal mosque operation and killed 2000 women children and hufaaz e quran,,so these army men who did this operatrionb under order of taghut are munafiqeen or munkir ,they are no longer muslims as they obeyed order of taghut anmd ignored orders of allah,,
i am happy too that i never went into army as being in army now means to kill mujahideen,and innocent hafiz e quran childrena nd women to please americans and their puppet rulers like musharaf
as for people cursing ghazi rashid in above posts let them curse him,as they will not be able to decrease his status ,he still is shaheed..these people are spitting on moon so their spit will land on their own faces.such people will inshallah join our taghut rulers in hell .amen
anyone with even an atom of islam knows that ghazi rashid was highest grade martyr and government and army people who did operation against lal mosque are munkireen or munafiqeen ,as they are killing muslims tro please kuffars.
every one knows that ghazi rashids grave has such divine scent that people were amazed at his burial,,also the stones where jamia hafza s female students blood was spilled in islamabad these stones still give amazing fragrance due to blood of shahids…
but some poeple have locks on their hearts as allah describes in quran,such people will never ever listen to or admit truth,,,but do not worry they will pay for it very soon inshallah and horribly too,as allahs justice is not far off
islam orders muslims to follow allahs orders unconditionally and without any doubts,,if aour ruler either muslim or nonmuslim asks us to do something which is against islamic sharia then as muslims we have to refuse this no matter what price we have to pay ,if we follow our taghut rulers than allah will throw us also in hell .
hazrat imam husain once said that a nation who does not rise up againmst its taghut rulers tahn such nation will also be thrown in hell fire along with their rulers
then i give a very eye opening hadeeth from tibrani colection of hadeeth..which is
“Hazrat muaaz ra narrates a hadeeth that prophet pbuh saida time will come when such leaders will rule muslims who will mislead the muslim societies into adopting nonislamic things.whoever will obey such rulers will be led astray and misguided ,and whoever will refuse to obey these taghut rulers will be murdered by them,,,people asked prophet (pbuh) that what should we do at that time? Prophet (pbuh) said do what prophet eesa and his companions did, who were cut in two by blades and who were crucified but they never obeyed such rulers neither did they give up their struggle against taghut or evil rulers (tibrani)
So this hadeeth clearly tells us that dying in allahs way is much much better than leading a life against allahs will (even if you are made forcibly made to lead such life by your rulers etc etc).
abdurashed was shaheed he was hero of pakistan.
Here is an interesting “open Letter” written to the Supreme Court of Pakistan by Prof. (Dr.) Anwar Ul Hague, a Chief Consultant Pathologist working in Islamabad.
[http://pakspectator.blogspot.com/2007/07/open-letter-to-supreme-court-regarding.html]
A thought-provoking excerpt form the letter: “When right in the center of Islamabad MacDonald of Bilal Musharraf [President Musharrafs son] can be built on expense of public healthy recreation activity site, why the government is bent to demolish Masajid?
well haq its interesting to read your post n ur lecture on breeding etc….im not in favour of personal abuse for anyone…be it ghazi sahib or be it musharraf but its my observation that political opposition to a general’s rule is clowding our minds from facts presented to us through various sources…what i do not understand is weather calling someone kafir / munafiq is a biiger abuse than the one u highlighted in ur post…i havnt found any post reacting to extremist comments posted by the ghazi brigade calling the security personal involved in the operation as kuffar.
who gives someone the right to call any muslim as kafir? i may not agree with musharraf but nor do i agree with ghazi…however i would never call them kuffars…the matter of shihadat should b left up to God… i do know that it is a fashion now a days to criticize the army but many army men in 65 n 71 gave their lives for a righteous cause….i hv many such graves…i hv also visited shrines of the quaid jinnah sahib , sultan bahu, data ganj baksh but the fragrance mentioned to prove the rightousness of their causes was missing….ghazi sahib may hv been right or wrong his grave definitely has nothing to do with it…i do know that he n his brigade had weapons with whom muslims were killed….some in the army also maybe the culprits of taking innocent lives n all of them will b answerable to Allah.the Army operated under orders after days of negotiations…ghazi sahib could have avoided the bloodshed just by coming out.
shariat cannot be implemented thats clear…..pakistani nation is in a habbit of fussing around….shariat is not anyone’s property that he/she likes to implement in accordance with his wishes……
whoever says ghazee n his fellows were on jihad …let me tell u jihad is not against muslims…..i will not call it shihadat …persons who died were dead coz of ghazi…who told them to remain inside…..when their leader escaped out y were they fighting….mr aziz said he came in burqa coz some politician suggested him to do this…..when govt was telling him to come out y dint he agreed…he was simply trying to run away…..
my sister is a journalist n i went with her to mr ghazi’s grave n have visited jamia hafza many times after the operation….there is nothing which u call khusboo….n if somebody believes there is a fragrance then his followers might have sprayed themselves in a same way when people say govt put the weapons inside the mosque.
yeh sab jihalat ki batein hain……he was a criminal n nothing else…..cheif justice jab 4 months tak sabar sai apna case court mai paish kar saktay hain aur insaf hasil klar saktay hain to mr ghazi ko bhi yehi rasta ikhtiar karna chahye tha agar unka koi prob tha tou….mosques give him donations n thts y he did not want to leave………
jisco khud mosque k ehtram ka nahi pata dosron ko kia nasehat kar raha hai…..
whoever support him shd hv joined him n die….
khuda kay liyay movie mai there is a dialogue ” haram ka paisa jaib mai rakh kar halal gosht ki dukan dhondna”……
jin logon ko jihad/islam ka nahi pata tht movie is for them
ghazi sahib nai jan ka nuksan property or deegar jaraim ki fehrist aik tarf lekin jitna poori dunyya mai islam ko badnam kia hai uski talafi koi nahi kar sakta….
islam means peace tou yeh peace hai???????? ajj tak kabhi kisi mandir/church mai aisa dekha hai……..n for your kind info the capt who died on the last day of op got married 8 months ago n was shot at the ladies surrender point by a man in burqa….
in logon nai burqay ko badnam kar dia pori dunya mai……….
yeh ghazi sahib logon ko gumrah karnay k zimadar hain……….aur inki gardan par itnai jano ka khoon hai…..
hamray logon ki yehi adat burri hai k jo molvi keh raha hai wohi thek…molvi kisi ka qatal karay tou jihad….govt operation karay tou innocent logon ka murder….
yehi saray darhi walay molvi thay na jo jab jamia hafza namaz k liyay kholi tou fasad kia wahan
ISLAM MAI KIDAR LIKHA HAI K APP NAI AIK KHAS INSAN K PECHAY HI NAMAZ PARHNI HAI???????JISCO AITRAZ THA WOH WAHAN NA ATA ….KAHIN AUR PARH LETA JUMMA….TAB JAB JOTAY MAR RAHAY THAY AUR MASJID K OPER CHARHAY HUWAY THAY AUR FASAD PHILAYA HUA THA TAB YEHI HAMARI QAUM INKO SAHEEH SAMJH RAHI THI JUST COZ INKI BEARD HAI….THEY SAID IT WAS A REACTION OF THE OPERATION…..BAKWAS……
KHUCH LOG YEH BHI KEH RAHAY THAY K YEH DRAMMA GOVT NAI APNAY BANDAY AKATHAY KAR K KIA HAI TAKAY LOG MOLVION KO BURRA KAHAIN….AGAR YEH GOVT K BANDAY THAY TOU JAMIA FAREEDIA KI FEMALES AUR GHZI BROTHERS KI SISTERS WAHAN KIA KARNAY AAIN THI???????????????
IN SHORT GHAZI WAS A CRINMINAL/MURDERER
Fifty clerics of Jamaat Ahl-e-Sunnat Pakistan issued a “Fatwa against the administration of Lal Masjid and declared the actions taken by Maulana Abdul Aziz and Maulana Abdur Rashid Ghazi to be un-Islamic. The Fatwa said that the Ghazi brothers had used the mosque for unlawful and immoral activities, which were hence un-Islamic. It also said that the Ghazi brothers un-Islamic actions were disguise as religious and because of which, Pakistan was looked down upon internationally.
i totally agree with ayesha n nauman…all supporters of ghazi including mr haq sound very illogical when they support a criminal….i do not understand y mr ghazi never approached a court of law for all the ills he saw in society..
mr haq has objected to bilal musharraf’s mc donalds …im not sure it is his or not but watever the matter shd b tried in court of law…no citizen has the right to take the law in their own hands….
shariat does not mean tht u start killing muslims in the name of juhad…ghazi was definitely not a shaheed as he killed muslims n took the law in his own hands …the govt is also to blame as they mishandeled the situation…ghazi n his bro shd hv been arrested a lot earlier…
yes amina is very right ….. by callind someone kafir (especially muslims) does not make anyone pious……yeh khusboo etc sab jihalat ki batein hain…..qabar poshi sai prophet nai bhi manna farmaya hai….logon ko islam ki saheeh knowledge nahi hai aur na hi jihad ka saheeh matlab patta hai isliye har woh shaks jo dehsgard ho aur unfortunately muslim bhi usko shaheed ya jihadi bana laein gai
aisi bat hai tou phir suicide bombers bhi jihad kartay hain……….lack of knowledge
nauman>>> well haq its interesting to read your post n ur lecture on breeding etc.]
Here is another fine example of how liberal extremists practice the art of “sidetracking” very cleverly when they lance at the moderates and the conservatives. In this particular kind of sidetracking the aim is to inflate the non-issue in a particular argument, add hyperbole to it, then cut it down to size again, managing in the process to smartly evade the actual point raised and augment the one they want to make.
This particular liberal extremist has sidetracked my point by not concentrating on its content but on its structure, calling it a “lecture on breeding which it is not by a wide margin. A ‘lecture’ by definition is “a speech or a lengthy rebuke…. 63 words of my post constitute neither a speech nor can they be dubbed lengthy. But having cleverly commented on the structure of the post, inflating its formation and then cutting it down to size by adding etc to it, the troll then comfortably goes on to side with those who have slandered and cursed a dead man by raising the issue of calling some a Kaffir.
The point I had made in my post was that liberal extremists like the one’s running amuck on this blog are not stopping at slandering a dead man, Shaheed or no Shaheed, but are going to the extent of calling him a “bastard” and “harami” [may Allah forgive me] names I would not call my worst living enemy. That Islam forbids to curse is something we all know. Ibn Mas’ud reported said that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “A believer is not an attacker nor a curser nor someone obscene or abusive.” [at-Tirmidhi]. Abu’d-Darda’ reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “People who curse will not be intercessors nor witnesses on the Day of Rising.” [Muslim]. Abu Hurayra reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “It is not fitting for a truthful man to be someone who curses.” [Muslim]
But then again its birds of a feather that stick together. By not acknowledging the fact that cursing a dead man is wrong by any standard, this liberal extremist has only claimed solidarity with those who are using filthy language to curse someone who is not on the earthy plane to defend himself. Like I said, its all about good breeding.