Ever since the afternoon of the faithful day when in between the intense fighting at the Lal Masjid, the Pakistan Army victoriously announced the death of the head militant of Lal Masjid Maulana Ghazi Abdul Rashid. Watching the news reports come through on all news channels I did notice that everyone was refraining to tag his death as a Shahdat. For many non-Muslims reading this article, it might seem to be a trivial issue but to a Muslim it means a world of a difference. A simple naming terminology is of no consequence to the soul in this world but it means a phenomenal difference in life-here-after. Quite simply its a decision to be made by Allah for him on the day of the Judgment.
A shaheed is a title that is given to a Muslim after his death, if he died during the fulfillment of a religious commandment. For a moment lets forget the political issues surrounding the crisis, coming to the root of the issue it was Ghazi Abdul Rashid who was defending the integrity of Islam challenging the ineffectiveness of the government in implementing the sharia law hence allowing a progressive degradation of our society. Without doubt Right or Wrong Maulana Shazi Abdul Rashid was defending his place of worship and was fulfilling his religious duties in this process.
Shaheed is a title for a Muslim when he dies for Islam While on the other hand the aggressors (Pakistan Army) were overwhelmingly attacking the mosque to the extent of destroying a large portion of the property throughout the compound. Hence can easily be labeled as aggressors against Islam, which is probably the highest crime for a Muslim. The jawans may be following order but it must be remembered that if one of the jawans were to loose his life in battle against Islam cannot be labeled as a Shaheed simply because he was a Muslim.
I share with you an interesting email I received by Mr. M Javed Iqbal who portrays a very compelling argument, which actually also got me thinking about this important issue. I quote…
During the attack on Lal Masjid and Madarsah Hafsa a question that was repeatedly raised was ‘ Who is “Shaheed” and who is “Halak”.’
In my opinion the distinction is crystal clear. The mistake and mischief lies with the initiator. Who started knocking down masajid in the capital of Islamic Republic of Pakistan? If I am traveling and somebody open fires on me, I have a right to defend myself and fire back at him. Therefore we must understand that what Ghazi brothers did was in self defence. The pity is Mullahs of the country have been corrupted by Musharraf by offering nice salaries and perks to them, hence they failed to point out that the sanctity of a masjid was to be safeguarded at all costs. No Muslim can dare attack a masjid, because it is Allah house.
Accordingly security forces, army men and rangers who attacked Lal Masjid are jahunumi and the fighters of Lal Masjid are shuhdaa and shall Insha Allah Will be rewarded with Paradise. Each officer or jawan must have refused to obey illegal order of attacking a masjid. They could say: “Look sir ! we joined the army to protect the Masajid and save women and children, not for destroying and killing them”.
Since they gave preference to order of the officer over Order of Allah, they are mahluk and jahanumi.
The brave fight back of Ghazi Abdul Rashid is an eye opener. When most of the Mullas just talked he challenged the illegal and immoral acts of Musharraf regime of knocking down 90 year old masajid of Islamabad and kept fighting for the cause till death. On such noble death Mir has said:
Marge Majnun pe aqal gum hai Mir Most Mullas could not see this fine line and remained indifferent, although they could have raised hue and cry against desecration of masajid. We should not forget that Quran says “Allah is Most Powerful and Revengeful” Every party can see his image in this mirror!
Kiya Diwane ne maut pai hai !
Considering the issue, I feel convinced that the sad demise of Ghazi Abdul Rashid should be labeled as a Shaheed and full respect offered to the body in regards to its proper dignified burial. I would hold the Pakistani Army responsible to the extent of disobeying the Islamic Law to which they all have sworn to uphold.
He died defending the religion of Islam against the evil forces.
Comments
1,044 responses to “Shaheed or Halak ? – Ghazi Abdul Rashid”
The penny drops. 🙂
haq can only say……….troll has done this troll did that…..troll is bad haq is sad…what to say what not…..
im not posting anything new coz my previous queries still unanswered….n ayesha has already replied so there is no need for me to write more…i feel the same
now he would say By haq on Aug 8, 2007 | Reply
“yet another typical tactic of trolls to gang up against anyone rocking the boat of their trolling. a chat room tradition imported to blogsganging upl with other trolls is aimed at disorienting the opponent with mulitple posts. Of little consequence to anyone who understands the tactic”
lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
i think i hv told u already wat i had to say n i also said u dont hv to believe me neither i care tht mr ghaq believes me or not…..
including me n my sis there were two more females who went along……..they were also assigned the same duty n how they worked n collected news is not ur prob as u hv independent research so u find out urself…..
first u had prob with my sis accident….now u hv problem with my other sis…….i really dont understand ur issue coz wen i hv told u ur not convinced so its over
u know the papers published here/magazines etc u go to every paper magazine n ask urself tht wat did they do tht day??????
n mind it i hvnt told u my sis works for a paki newspaper or international…neither i hv told u she works for a paki magazine or an international mag…..
n mind u aside frm us there were females frm diff news channels/papers………
If u think my story is fabricated then ur ghazi stance is also wrong as so far instead of replying to others who hv asked abt ghazi ur constanly answering my posts
if my story is a fabricated one…..i will be answerable to allah on day of judgement not you………
mai jhoot bol rahi hun na to thek hai Allah mujko saza dai ga lekin wen u dont bel my words n u hv already said im a lier then u stick with ur statement tht im wrong….finished!!!!!!!!! n answer those question which ppl have asked you
Ayesha basically haq is just annoying you…..he has nothing to say…u hv made ur point clear…n he has made his point clear….my advice to u is just not respond to his posts…he is just trying to change the topic……….or maybe he is inciting u so tht u come up with ur sis name n her news pape r to prove urself correct….dont do this stupidity……
Now im telling u his next post wud b comments on this post….again he wont justify ghazi’s actions n his shihadat or cause…..
ur just like my sis n my advice is to stay away frm this man…….u must hv read wat he said abt president’s mother……
he is mentally sick n just indulging in an arguement with a girl n avoiding the real issue….
Ajj tak iss insan nai jo army walon ko galian nikaltay thay , aunty shami ki prostitution etc par khuch nahi kaha……
my sincere advice dont reply him….. I believe ur words kiunkay app nai allah ka nam liya hai aur agar app ghalat hui tou app roz e qayamat ko sazawar ho gee ….
Allah ka nam to ghazi bhi leta tha lekin uski aur harktain questionable thi……issi waja sai i believe u n if ur wrong u will b punished……
bas ab app tiyar raho yeh meri iss post k bhakye odhairay ga….. Analysis madam analysis…..thts wat he is doing….
logic saray inko isi case mai nazar atay hain …ghazi k logic ko tou ajj tak yeh explain nahi kar saka
i told you he is sick:)
By haq on Aug 10, 2007 | Reply
The penny drops.
LOLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ……
HAQ SAHIB PLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ GIVE US LOGICAL REASONS FOR GHAZI’S ACTIONS……………………………….
EYES WIDE OPEN
This has indeed been a day of days for me.
A very small triumph for me and for all those wishing to preserve the sanctity of the name of the 2000+ massacred at the behest of Musharrafs illegitimate regime on July 10, including Ghazi Abdul Rasheed Shaheed, the students of Jamia Hafza, and scores of rasikh-ul-aqeeda young men and children at Lal Masjid, and those who survived.
When I joined the message board of this blog, during the days after the July 10 massacre, I was intensely grieved over what I believe was one of the biggest human tragedies I had seen unfold in my life. I express myself through my writings and so I knew I needed to express my grief through my words.
I blog regularly and have my own blog which unfortunately is not in line with what I wished to express. I decided I wanted to set up a website about the July 10 massacre and chronicle the Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza saga. That however was not going to happen overnight. So till then I thought I would find company of like minded people on the internet.
Thats when goggling led me to this blog. I chose its board to post because its author appeared to me to be a moderate Muslim with a very balanced approach to the issue. I also did not find too much of hostility in the posts against Ghazi Abdul Rasheed. And thats when for the first time I expressed my grief to the world at large. Simultaneously I also discovered other sites, blogs and message boards on the internet some of which lashed out at Ghazi Abdul Rasheed with ferocity while others aggressively supported his cause – the implementation of Shariah in Pakistan.
While posting on this and other blogs I realized that there were many people out there who were maligning the good name of Ghazi Abdul Rasheed and his compatriots either under influence of the propaganda of tyrant Musharraf and his regime or because of their personal beliefs. These were almost always liberals and liberal extremists whose value system remains forevermore in direct confrontation with anything remotely Islamic.
So after my initial post, I decided I wanted to continue posting. I have a talent. And I am trained to analyze people and situations. So I decided I was going to employ my talent and my training. I decided I was going to continue writing but whereas it was easier to write on blogs where everyone sympathizes with Ghazi sahib, I wanted to take the risk of venturing into the murkier waters where lurk liberal extremists who spew venom at anything connected to Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza. So I set myself a parameter – to seek out and try my best to neutralize the propaganda of liberal extremists against the rasikh-ul-aqeeda Musalman children, women and men, of Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza.
It was real difficult and very depressing; to read some of the harshest words I have ever heard any human use for another, dead or alive. But thats the difference between a liberal extremist and a rasikh-ul-aqeeda musalman. Whereas the former will lash out at the opponent with ferocity, using the filthiest language possible to demean and belittle him, the latter uses words worth their weight in gold. And I heard the filthiest possible language used against me and the ones I was defending. It was all very toxic. I felt sick to my bones and I wanted to run away. These are bad bad people whose negativity can be very detrimental to anyone who dont have a thick skin. And I dont have thick skin.
I burnt the midnight oil on many a nights to analyze posts. I was ONLY picking up parts of posts in which liberal extremists had maligned Jamia Hafza, Ghazi Abdul Rasheed Shaheed and his compatriots and students. I did not address anyone in particular; I was just setting the record straight. And then I discovered posts written under the handle nauman, by evidently a liberal extremist who perhaps represents the darkest side of people on his side of the fence. The filth of his language gave hues of the shade of blood that ran through his veins.
Analyzing his posts wasnt an easy job. To go through the venom and the filth he put up as writing wasnt a bed of roses. The nonsense of his content was downright a bush of thorns I had to scour everyday. I just knew that if I could just somehow prove that his maligning of the good name of Ghazi Abdul Rasheed was nothing more than a liberal extremist showing contempt against Islam. But he would cleverly guise his contempt and would not allow to be held to any word he said.
And then I hit jackpot. As I started analyzing posts that were being made under the handle “Ayesha who was writing horror accounts of her familys sufferings at the hands of students of Jamia Hafza, I realized two things – a) she was not being truthful and b) the timing of her posts, the content and the structure were very similar to those of nauman. Until I realized that it WAS nauman posting as ayesha.
Like I said a small triumph for me. Here at last I was able to prove how underhanded, loathsome and shameful these liberal extremists can be if they want. Lying through their teeth about the students of Jamia Hafza, their whole lot has been involved in running this one big propaganda campaign just so they can justify the massacre their leader has carried out. And to succeed at dispensing misinformation they will lie as hard as they have to, as many times they have to, to whom ever they have to, to wherever they have to, lying in the papers, lying on TV and lying on the internet just as “nauman did. He lied to become Ayesha and as Ayesha he lied to tell stories that were nothing but one big lie after the other.
What a solace to know that whereas this little nobody who passes himself off as nauman and ayesha and whose language itself is enough to show the breed he is will lead the life of a common man, die when his time comes and be gone forever and forgotten. But Ghazi Abdul Rasheed Shaheed and his compatriots will inshAllah be remembered for all time to come. History will remember them as those who lay their lives for the cause they believed in. May Allah bless their souls.
I feel a bit lighter now. I know, in essence I have accomplished nothing here. The nobody I have exposed to the world matters to no one. But accomplishing nothing is better than no accomplishment at all. At least I can now say to Ghazi sahib on the Day of Judgment that I exposed to the world at least one LIAR who lied to bring a bad name to you, your compatriots and your cause. And at least I can refer this message board to hundreds out there to make them see how low liberal extremists can get to stay on top of things.
My work here is done. I need to move away from the toxicity and negative sentiments rampant here. I need to find peace and solace among those who share my viewpoint. I know its easier that way. But I need to heal my hurt. And with invigorated energies and on the hunt again I can perhaps just breeze through this board one day and expose another lie, lay bare open another half truth.
Until then!
DOUBLE VISION
In my analysis of the posts being made on this board under handles 'ayesha' and 'nauman', I was beginning to have serious doubts about the separate identities of their writers. This morning I finally came to the conclusion that both posts were being made by the same troll. But it was “naumans last post that he evidently posted under the handle “ayesha by accident that finally gave him away.
Troll Duplication is one of the oldest tricks in the book that trolls employ to sound forcible by “faux camaraderie. They invent a person who posts on the board alongside them, and at strategic points where they need approval from other writers, their invented persona writes in their favor.
The persona invented by “nauman is “ayesha. He has been making posts under that handle besides his own very smartly making sure they both retain their individuality. “Ayesha he kept articulate and somber in nuance so as to convincingly emulate a female persona, complete with a solemn tone and formal linguistic tenor. In posts he made under the handle “nauman he was more himself – boisterous, rowdy and vulgar in content keeping in line with his actual male personality.
But just like trolls of his genera, who are intelligent enough to imitate personalities in posts, make the error of letting that similarity become evident in the structure of the posts as well, “nauman too let his slip show.
I have been able to pinpoint 30 different instances of similarities in the structure of the posts of ayesha and nauman. Most important of these are as follows:
1.Both use the exact same short forms for ALL words they abbreviate [for instance n to abbreviate and].
2.Both lack a grasp on the grammar and syntax, skipping verbs and making incorrect usage of prepositions [ayesha: y u constantly bragging abt her sister – nauman: if u hv answered paste me again]
3.Both use the exact same phonetic spelling for ALL Urdu words they write [for instance mai (from)]
4.Both write dates in the exact same way [for instance 9th august]
5.Both use I instead of E when connecting nouns in Urdu [for instance Deen-i-Ghazi]
6.Both write haphazardly on the board with the exact same disregard to paragraphing or indentation, reflective of “rambling common to both.
7.Both their posts comprise mostly of very short sentences broken up by ellipses […]
8.Both end most of their posts on paragraphs that are in all caps.
9.Both use phoneticons to mock and ridicule the opponents post [for instance lolzzzz]
10.Both slide back and forth between English and Urdu in their posts.
Besides the similarities in the structure of both their posts, there are three more instances of similitude that are uncanny.
1.“Both made an entry on the same day [August 6], one after the other
2.Since then they have “both been constantly posting and always on the same day.
3.“Both live in Islamabad and so both have “first hand knowledge of everything that went on during, before and after Operation Silence/Sunrise of which “both post with the same degree of conviction.
4.“Both support each others stance completely giving references of the exact same points [for instance both claim that their sisters came under attack of the so-called “burqa Brigade while driving.] And though they both spew venom at the students of Jamia Hafza both fail to explain why they never reported the incidence either to the police or to the press, either then or now, which would prove IRREVOCABLY to anyone who has even an iota of sympathy for the student of Jamia Hafza that they were wrong in their approach.]
5.“Both use the using the exact same words written in the exact same order [aunty shamin, chinese girls].
These similarities are indicative of what is known on the internet chat forums and message boards as workings of a “clone. Trolls that clone are said to engage in “Troll Duplication, with the cloned troll being called “replica. “Nauman in this case is the original troll and “Ayesha, the troll he cloned is his “replica
lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
i will not give any explaination to it…..if it is possible for u to check the ip address do it urself….now he will say u write one mail frm one pc n another i.e of ayesha’s from the other pc………….
in my recent mail i hv started using his phrases likemiscreants, troll etc then according to his explaination “haq” iz also me………….as he post on the same date i mean his replies r also on the same date…….GOOD JOB WELL DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AUNTY SHAMIM N CHINESE GIRLS ARE ALWAYS KNOWN AS AUNTY SHAMIM N CHINESE GIRLS…..as far my sis being attacked is concerned she is my first cousin n i really do not know it was reported in newspaper or not…..she was treated at pns hospital coz her husband is in navy…..n i really do not hv any idea tht they called police or not…but on the other hand there was another col sahib in the room(wen we went to c our sis) whose daughter was brought in emergency she tried to commit suicide….about her i know tht her stomach was washed n was sent home…..its also a crime but i dint c any police even military police doing investigation…..in my neighbourhood a married girl lives….her father went to meet her n infront of her father the man put her on fire n she died…..she was taken to the hospital….i never read it any newspaper.purpose of telling all these incidents is every crime/theft/robbery/rape etc is reported to newspaper…….
1.i have learnt these short form n or lolz or watever he say while chatting…am i the only person using it? he has himself used lolz in one or two mails.aug 4th post of faisal…he has also used”n”…he also lives in F10 maybe faisal bhi mai hi hun (according to him) as he is also not supporting jamians…he discussed chinese girls…he also wrote lolz…FUNNY!!
ANOTHER POST OF AMNA on aug 6th has also used “n” not supported ghazi…maybe its also me
hamza on aug 7th according to haq is also me as he hasnt supported ghazi.ordinar pakistani n my posts also come at same date may be time it means he is also me.
2.if u read the post of rahim on aug 8th he has also switched from english to urdu n also against ghazi
2.he also posts on the same day n ourpost come one after another.
3. ordinary paki tried to speak for ayesha to which he objected in 9th aug post ….may be he is also…..
4.By NAUMAN on Aug 9, 2007 | Reply
the way mr haq is TROLLING about deen e ghazi is amazing……y i hv used “e” in deen i ghazi??????????????/
3.wats wrong if ayesha n me both live in islamabad…..i do not own islamabad….”n” i never said i had first hand knowledge about all this issue…nobody has…..
4. according to him i always supported ayesha….i only did few days back on her sis issue….she had an arguement i think with adnan on tht pakistani film i never commented….again her issue with adnan was on molvis i never said a word…….
5.By haq on Aug 9, 2007 | Reply
[>>>adnan: Political Moulvis are the most corrupt people in politics. these are the people who are damaging the image of Moulvis. But please remember Majority of Moulvis in Pakistan are not like them]
Well said. I totally agree to that although i think it is a very small minority of Moulvis who are worth their salt in Pakistan.
” u have supported adnan it means according to you tht you n him are not seperate ids but one person”
6. i tried to search in ayesha’s post i in deen i ghazi but i could not find any …may be i missed it…….
i would conclude by his explaination tht all the people posting here in favour of operation are sending multiple posts or there is only one or two person sending mails with differnt nick……n same goes for the people supporting the operation”
haq)”So after my initial post, I decided I wanted to continue posting. I have a talent. And I am trained to analyze people and situations. So I decided I was going to employ my talent and my training. ”
haq>>>>>”It was real difficult and very depressing; to read some of the harshest words I have ever heard any human use for another, dead or alive. But thats the difference between a liberal extremist and a rasikh-ul-aqeeda musalman. Whereas the former will lash out at the opponent with ferocity, using the filthiest language possible to demean and belittle him, the latter uses words worth their weight in gold. And I heard the filthiest possible language used against me and the ones I was defending. It was all very toxic. I felt sick to my bones and I wanted to run away. These are bad bad people whose negativity can be very detrimental to anyone who dont have a thick skin. And I dont have thick skin.”
ISKO KEHTAY HAIN OLTA CHOR KOTWAL KO DANTAY…..INHON NAI ARMY KO, AUNTY SHAMIM , NELOFAR BHAKTIAR KISI KO NAHI BAKSHA N HE TALKS ABT filthiest language…AGAIN READ THIS POST N YESTERDAY HE SAID I NEVER ADVOCATE GHAZI
IF U DO NOT HV ANYTHING LOGICAL TO SAY u come up with such stuff……on my repeated request he never been able to defend ghazi’s actions but was very quick in pinpointing president’s act…..
i never supported musharraf for his actions but i always said on this i support him
liberal extremist is the term used in his every post….we r also muslims but tht does not mean we indulge in criminal activities in the name of jihad…..a true jihadi in todays world i would call is “zakir naik”…..he is spreading islam through knowledge….if u c on peace tv there r thousands of ppl in his lecture n nonmuslims too…maybe he is also a liberal extremist as he does not support the so called jihad of ghazi in this form…..
HATSOFF TO U MR HAQ!!!!!!! GUD WORK KEEP IT UP…
i think nauman never supported me…..i read his yesterday post he never said that he believes but what he said was he beieves me becoz i was taking Allah’s name n if im wrong i will be punished on day of judgement.
n lot of people post on same day/date.anyways this arguement is of no use.if he believes what he wants to let him.i never cared whatever he said
in one of his mail haq sahib accused nelufar bhaktiar for kissing a non muslim…..mind u when lady diana came to pakistan she shook hand with many men including maulana type ( i mean people with beard)……….secondly nobody saqw nelofar kissing the man directly.it was in newspapers n it was taken from one angle.in my opinion the man was greeting her n helping her to come to ground .he was wishing her for her acheivement….if u have ever seen men jumping from parachutes they are on ground helped by people…the difference is its their custom to greet like tht i.e touching cheeks …it was nothing more than that.
i heard her interview on biz plus that how her life n image ruined by ghazi sahib’s fatwa….
MUJKO TOU YEH NAHI SAMJH ATTI K JAMIA HIZA /LAL MASJID MAI AIK SATH ITNAY NAMEHRAM MARD AUR AURAEIN AKATHAY KESAY REH RAHAY THAY????TAB GHAZI SAHIB KI SHARIAT KIDAR CHALI GAE THI.
n jasmeen mansoor on tv said that when she went to jamia hifza for interview she was compelled to take parda..n the people attitude over there was obnoxious.she is of biz plus.
jhoot ki app kia bat kartay hain.when his brother was caught in burqa next day live conversation on geo tv with ghazi was telecasted…the host asked “for Allah’s sake atleast send the small children out”.he said i dont have any kids here.”the host said should we keep it on record that there is no kid below 12 n he said yes”
tou sab ko pata hai k uskay bad kitnay bachay niklay thay wahan sai…
when the interviewr asked ghazi rasheed about his brother escape he said he wasnt running away he was going to meet somebody…he asked who was the person n he said i dont know……..funny isn’t it
anyways mr haq’s aim here is to distract one’s attention from the topic n nothing else…n what ever he has posted today is a poor effort on his part.plz use your anylitical abilities in analyzing the logic n reason behind ghazi’s actions n honestly telling us was it jihad?was he shaheed?
must do your homework on this.
MR HAQ’S LAST WORDS
My work here is done. I need to move away from the toxicity and negative sentiments rampant here. I need to find peace and solace among those who share my viewpoint. I know its easier that way. But I need to heal my hurt. And with invigorated energies and on the hunt again I can perhaps just breeze
lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
i can only laugh……….according to him every body is a lier except his so called “shaheed”.if i were nauman or nauman is ayesha why only two individuals used against ghazi…any of us would have then sent multiple posts in our favour….but it did not happen……kuffars, munafiqin , musharafites,deen i ghazi or deen e ghazi are very respectable words to use….
imagining the death of president’s mother is again his creativity , sincerity n decency…..i am myself releived that none of them on the site could provide islamic logic of ghazi’s actions….first every body used to call out ghazi as shaheed n soldiers as kuffar ..mission as jihad….n to support his cause n death by associating a certain fragrance…..none of them could give any logic….there was an interview of the kid on tv who surrendered at night that people inside the mosque were not permitting us to come out n they said if anybody tries to leave they will shot him…..i know many surrendered before that…to that ghazi made live statement to geo since we had food shortage etc so we sent them out n next day he came up with another statement that we have stored weapons n food which is enough for month.
he ran away from the blog bcoz he does not have reasons to prove “ghazi’s ideology in the light of quran”..yes he can do if comparing with other politicians or president.
i will end my post by quoting ayat from surat baqra
” aur khuch log kehtay hain k hum Allah aur pichlay paighmbar par eman layay aur woh iman walay nahi. fARAIB dia chahtay hain Allah aur eman walon ko aur haqeeqat mai faraib nahi detay magar apni jano ko aur inhain shaoor nahi.ink dilon mai bemari hai tou Allah nai inki beemari aur barhai aur ink liyay dardnak azab hai, badla ink jhoot ka aur jo un sai kaha jayay zameen mai fasad na karo tou kehtay hain hum tou sanwarnay walay hain.sunta hai wohi fasadi hain magar inko shaoor nahi”
Allah does not give you or anybody else the right to abuse someone in this manner….i am not a shiaite myself neither do i agree to the popular version of karballa..however in a decent society such language shd not b used towards anybody….b it a non muslim or some one from another sect.islam is a peaceful n loving religion…our sins n misbeliefs would be clarified on the day of judgement so lets not commit shirk & start stepping into Allah’s domain of judging people.
u claim to read Holy Quran n yet use filthy language in the same paras as that in which u mention the glorious Quran….highly inappropriate.
Miss ayesha …..u ask for proofs …i think u should wipe ur Face and brush ur teeth before even propagating ur bogus and ill Researched trash.u ask for “islamic logic” yet i ask u have u ever Read quran beside the surahs of chapter 30 with translation and if U did how much ….not to please me but to know for ur self the Answewr for ur questions u tell me the answers to these questions ? 1:is it wrong or unreligious especially from islamic point of view to demmand on all levels for implimentation of shariaah law if not Scrach ur secular brain and look for the 14 points in the legislation (says:pakistans law will be according to quran and sunnah )? 2:during the lal masjid protests how many people became the victoms By stick blows ? 3:if chinese and pakistani prostitues were straightened out via adressing of good teachings is it not the responcibilty of police Or state to carry out this right ful job in the first place (more over how many bled at the hands of moulana during these Acts …maulana went to different police stations in the area and all Of them refused to take action…how long should one wait)…(why isnt there any government yet who dared to even think of shutting down heera mundee).
4:show me the constitution of pakistan where it is written to Protect and promote prostitution (all international media pictured And named chinese workers and antee shameem as prostitues ….wana Check go to bbc cnn web sites) 5:why did government not take armed action on 12th of may againts mqm terrorists ? Also why did government back down from kargel which was our territory and righfuly pakistani check post?Recalling the above question how many people were killed ,wounded or even harmed by maulana and his peopel before operation silence (this includes the 6 month periode of the senario)?6:according to general (r)hameed gul the army cuasualties should have been mutiple times more than the civilians for the sake of saving Women children and the elderly but the ratio is ncomparable? 7 :the kid u are talking about every one except u and some others like u know that it was staged ….when ever the kid was asked a Question he was continuously blinking his eye and looked at some Thing on the position of x=-ve , y=-ve i.e lower left corner of The cammera or the tv screen ….the boy stated that he kept hiding behind the bricks yet he was un brozed un affraid and clean clothed(several media bodies took him aside and asked him few more questions he Got so much stressed-up in the end that he ended up confessing ” i dont Know any thing more i have a father he is a police man and he is over there !!!”)…but even if u dont believe it u missed the little girl interview On same geo stating that no one is keeping them on gun point and she Was given breakfast and dinner she was even younger than the boy ..Also u missed ajj tv interviews with several people who negated the Things u are trying to implyfy the proof is there on media….8:america is against mujahideen or jihadees or any word relating to it if pakistani army involved in lal masjid incident are given the title of mujahideen why would bush give 75 million/billion dollors to Pakistani mujahideen army and for what? Also geo and other media reported That pakistani army mujahideen used sound proof helicopter for taking pictures of the complex but no matter if it was a sound proof helicopter or not that was Given by the americans to locate usama question is tv reported on security forces Say that an apc was distroyed by a rocket launcher attack by the deffenders of lal masjid …Why they hesitated attacking the helicopters during there three time flight over lal masjid not Even fired a bullet upon them ..???(they might have considered the fact that helicopters are more Expensive than apcs) i think its enough food for u to digest for couple of eons if not ….i dare u to state ur self further but with proof and logic rather being a jew and blaming jessus pbuh for claming divinity …!
Dark Cloud your posts was made in CAPITAL LETTERS – if you are not aware it is considered rude to type in Capital letters on the Internet – this last post I was lenient enough to convert it all into Sentence format but if it gets repeated again consider it to be deleted. I respect everyone’s point of view but please be courteous and considerate to everyone.
What is also surprising that a huge debate is beign waged from the same IP under the following nicknames – R.A.J.A (2 copmments), Ayesha (1 comment) Nauman (2 comments) these are published above – while a few other comments written by ThunderBird and SilverBlade (also originating from one IP address) have been marked as SPAM as they were all made in CAPS.
Consider it a warning – I am about to spam block this IP address if it continues to be misused
DearDark cloud.
amazing i really reaaly apriciate your point of view u really shows mirror. but problem with people is they dont want to see thre ugly faces..
I really appricate your approch… God belss you Ameen…..
Madam Ayesha ur point keh etnay sary namehram kasay akhathay reh rahay thay tu for your kind information main nay b akhri din Ume Hassan kay sath he serrender kea tha. whan par koi mard ksisi aurat kay sath nahee reh raha tha balkay men were at seperat plac. woh tu talbat ko daikh b nahee saktay thay yes i agree keh dead bodies ham nay apnay mujahid bahayun ki uthaeen hain jo keh bahad main ur favort gov nay jala deen theen…… aur han jis cheez ka pata na ho us kay baray main bluff na kea karo…..
Asalamoalikum.
i read posts and comments mentioned above sadly i would say few brothers and sisters either
seriously lack inforation especially those people who are against maulana
bradrans actions or according to their own biased analysis their hatred towards
towards ghazee brothers and people with them can easily be viewed.
first question …what were the actions taken by maulana brothers …?
u tell me ? and how voilent were they …?a brother mentioned that because
of the ghazee brothers stand the buisness was affected ..! first thing the buisness was still running
during six month senario it was only after the police rangers got the lal masjid surrounded the buisness started to
get down not cuz of the ghazee brothers but cuz of the police cuz they were using tear gas…
2nd if u could review the news back then a merchant was killed by security forces while he got along
with other murchants of the area and they were comming towards lal masjid and were protesting,,,so please have a slightly
little more memory thank u …
if u talk about taking law in ur own hands suppose u are walking down the street and
u come across a gang who is robbing /beating/killing/raping/looting a person
what are u going to do in this case …. first option call 911 but its futile
cuz it aint workin in pakistan 2nd seriously call the police but we all know and its
a crystal clear fact that police never will come on time 3rd ur soul if alive knocks
at u and reminds u that u are a muslim and reminds u of a hadeeth saying of ourly beloved holy
prophet PBUH said “when ever u see a crime stop it with ur hands if u dont have the courage
to do that then stop it with ur toung and if u lack that as well then at least curse it
in ur heart and it is the least level or degree of emman (faith)”.
yet again i ask u what did those maulana brothers do or demand wrong ? its not just a 6
month story u are dealing with it goes way back !
have u ever hearad this word called free maison if not or might be but as most of us here are muslims
and read holy quran and are familiar with a word called jew (Bani Israeel)..!!
i dont admire hitler he was a damned person but he said “if there are two fishes fighting
each other in a stream a jew will be behind that plot…when our lovly country pakistan came into existance
the prime minister/president of isreal said “all children of isreal know this from now on that
from this day forth pakistan is ur enemy number 1 thats why Quaid e Azam said “that isreal is
the illegitimate child of United kindom and USA”but before all that Allah says in holy quran
” jews and and christians can never be ur friends” (not until u accept their religion)…but this ayah
according to my understand doesnot reffer to all jewss and christians but specificaly people like sheron
and Pope benidict (pope benidict recently said bad remarks about prophet mohammad and Allah subhana watala
also he challanged jehad .but amazingly he now regrets it and hides cuz Dr zakir naik and many other
internationaly acclaimed scholors of islam have challanged him to a debate and he hasnt accepted it yet).
My brothers and sisters u remember the incident of baberi masjid and most rescent event of publication
of cartoons by danish news paper and salman rushdie given the title of sir by the queen….do u even
realise why this all is happening 1 after the other ….ill give u an example in villages
women use a tool made up of sticks (called as chhannane ) to throw out insects and stones and
purify rice. well jews and free maisons have that channane and they use it after certain interval of time
to analyse and locate the muslims who still have fealings towards their religion.pakistan is 1 of the
enemies number 1 in their list and they dont want to see it flurish among them .tthey have think
tanks who plan the distruction of unwanted groups religions countries etc…i recomend u to watch or hear the
CD by the name of “the shadows”. it will open ur eyes …A triangle …all-seen-one-eye (can be easily
seen on a dollor bill or note) and david star
are most popular symbols used by free maison to show their domination over the world.
u now might have some idea of a force working behind the scenes .every one has to bow down to this force
and the one who doesnt will burn in its furry and wrath..this exactly resambles to a hadeeth by our holy prophet
PBUH”when dejaal comes he will have fire in his one hand and water in other those who reject him will
have his fire as punishment and those who bow to him will have his riches bestowed upon them”.
does this ring any bell to u ….no …carry out a task for me for ur own good to know some thing …
check out the american eagle symbol represented by american goverment .. it can be easily seen during government speeches and
announcements in the light of above hadeeth about dejal”if u cant find it then ill tell u
what it was all about.but i know u will figure it out.the david star or the star of david (daud alaii salam)
is the sybol of isreal ..its on every isreali flag… u will find this symbol on products on currency
on magazines on household products in movies several places ….(i can give proof upon request)..
u might be thinking at this point that whats this symbol gota do with any thing…well
think again this symble has gota do with every thing.by showing this symbol they show their domination over the whole world.
it works like this u will think what they want u to think u will feal what they want u to feal u will eat what they want u to eat
U WILL wear what they want u to wear even u will dring what ever they want u to dring ….eventualy u will have less or no choice
..whats this gota do with lal musjid and ghazee brothers ?
good question but before i answer that u have to do some home work on free maisons and their idea of domination over
the world !…we all were sleeping and thought that what ever is happening is happening way over their …in bosnia
in africa in iraq in palestine in somalia in sudan etc …we were all sleeping …but 911(plotted by US government) shook us all…
The Americans attacked Iraq for no reason …but they said they had 1 for it (WMD) yeah the weapons of massdistruction
…they smoked whole iraq in chaos and termoil and yet no answer to this question..bush said
in his speech at the end of 2006 on CNN in angery and exclamatory tone”we knew that there were no weapons of mass distruuction
……(took a pause and said) they will not give us oil …and there are some other purposes…”…its on record u can go and check.
what kind of a president says things like that any way….I Strongly recomend u to read a book by abid ullah jan(Afganistan the genisis of the last crusade).
this is a must have book …..appriciated and honored by many english reputed writers who write unbiased.u will get the picture of
the situations arround us ..
has any one seen a movie called Zoolander and ROBOCOP 1….i am not trying to be funny here …
now after talk about free maisons u will get the idea what i am talking about.themovie zoolander is a comedy
movie its not a big deal…but in the middle of the movie i think there is a song during that song
from some where the map of india and pakistan imerges to screen …it zooms in and zooms out ….
there was no line seperating the two nations i would say.it was the map of pre partion india.
from the looks of it i had no idea what was that about but later after analysing it i got the answer.
and ill give u the answer …. most of us watch discovery channel and national geographic
…..well i do most of the time …when ever there is a program regarding ancient fosils and people
of mouinjodarro …i am talking about texla old civilization…it is rightful to callout the name of pakistan
when ever the civilization existed here is debated but instead… several hundred times they call it west india..
not even once or negligible times they callout pakistan……do u think its by mere chance …or just bad luck..
no dudes its not…u must have seen robo cop 1 …in this movie some where their runs a commercial on tv
of a playing toy (war simulation toy) …shortly all family memebers in that commercial pass a statement on hat toy in commercial
but the little boy says some thing realy not relevent to the whole movie and it shocked me ..and i quote
“Pakistan is threatning my borders “…u can check it the movie is easliy available …what i still gota
find about this statement is that what was the year of make for this movie and what was happening that time..
think about all of this brothers and sisters our beloved prophet told us about his appearence.
i mean the dejaal ..he is here and has been here for a long time in the form of a system …
they were at first showing symbolic appearence but now they are bold and more open than ever.
watch national treasure(it gimics total masonic idea)..free maisons are up now to kill true muslims all over the world.
u must have heard the remarks of the presidential election candidate who says that if he comes in power he will distroy
mekkah and medina and the holy Qaba (GOD forbbid).down load the cocacola symbol and invert its
jpg or gif image using acdc software read it in arabic style..
it surrprisingly says La Muhammad La Mukkah (God forbbid).if i would have told u about cocacola symbol u would
have laughed at me but now even u try u cant cuz its now getting clearer.lastly does any one know
a game by the name DEVIL MAY CRY 3 SPECIAL EDITION for play station 2 in this game there is a movie scene
where virgil (a character) is standing by a gate and a demon possessed man appears holdiing a book
…he opens the gate to demon world with that book…the horrifying thing is that the door has
arabic writings on it and if u watch carefully its the door of HOLY qaba that can be easily dentified.
this game was made over there in japan by capcom …u can see the masonic domination over the whole world.
thats enough from me for now i hope my statements ,might help shedding light in order to understand every day
events….i request all of u brothers and sisters to read holy quran with translation
and understanding and establish regular prayers…for only they can protect us from evils of dejaal
..Allah subhanawatalah Guide us All Amen. ASALAMOALIKUM Wereahmatulah wa barakatu.
i thank u sister (Saadiya Habib) i realy appriciate ur encouragement may ALlah help us and Bless us all and give us power to fight off evil. ameen .Asalamoalikum Peace be on you and your family.
brother teeth maestro i acknownledge ur complaint i will see through it that u wont be having it agin and i pray to Allah to bless u with wisdome and courage and to bless u for this major effort we are but a drop in the ocean but with out these drops the ocean will die…asalamoalikum peace be on u and your family
dark cloud)
my intent has never been to support prostitution or any other evil plaguing our society.my point is tht Ghazi did an unislamic thing throughout this scenerio..Islam Kharooj ki ijazat nahi deta…All ullma aside from political molvis say the same.it should always be our aim to spend life as per the Quran.there cannot b any 2 opinions about this.Islam as i interpreted is not a religion based on hate.the Quran whenever quoted should not be as suited to our interest.we should always quote Quran in context.The following ayat clarifies the chain of authority in our religion.
its stated in surat Nisa ” aye emaan walo, Allah ki ataat karo aur rasool (p.b.u.h) ki ataat karo aur in logon ki jo tum mai sai hukmran ho.phir tumharay darmian ahgar kisi maamlay mai ikhtilaf hou tou issay Allah aur Rasool ki tarf phair dou, agar tum Allah aur yom e akhrat par eman rakhtay ho.yeh behtar hai aur injam k lihaz sai bhi acha hai”
Prophet( p.b.u.h) said n i quote ” tum in sai jhagra bas is waqt kar saktay ho jab tum koi khula kufr in ki tarf sai dekho jis k baray mai tumharay pas Allah ki hujjat maujood hou”…..(muslim kitab alamarat)
this hadees makes it clear on what to do n when to do it….the first point that requires decision is tht if our constituion n our laws are in consolance with the Quran n sunnah…i would like you to point out the relevent sections in our constitution or penal code which support prostitution , gambling etc…u will find tht our laws aside from minor problems relate to the Quran n Sunnah.if not the federal shariat court can always be approached to rectify any problem.now lets anlyze Ghazi sahib’s actions n his position.by all definitions he was the naib imam paid out of govt funds.i cannot understand how a govt employee can rise against his own ruler.shariat requires 4 witnesses to act against a sexual offender.these witnesses appear before a court of law to prove guilt or innocence.anybody accusing a women of immodesty without proof is punishable by 80 koras.auntie shamim or Chinese cannot be prostitutes in the eyes of shariat if bbc cnn or even ghazi sahib says so.we require 4 witnesses. Similarly Osama bin Ladan etc can be a criminal only if proven in a court.a media trial can only b termed as propaganda.( no defense intended).
If we take Ghazi actions as correct then any one of us can start burning banks as they deal in interest/riba. Kiunkay burrai ko tou rokna chahye. Pakistan is not a secular state it never will be.97 % muslims live here.the right to make decisions for these ppl of Pakistan cannot rest with a person who speaks maybe only for his madrissa.this is against the Islamic concept of shura.any support to such actions would be unislamic because it defies the Quran as quoted earlier n as I quote below
aur khuch log kehtay hain k hum Allah aur pichlay paighmbar par eman layay aur woh iman walay nahi. fARAIB dia chahtay hain Allah aur eman walon ko aur haqeeqat mai faraib nahi detay magar apni jano ko aur inhain shaoor nahi.ink dilon mai bemari hai tou Allah nai inki beemari aur barhai aur ink liyay dardnak azab hai, badla ink jhoot ka aur jo un sai kaha jayay zameen mai fasad na karo tou kehtay hain hum tou sanwarnay walay hain.sunta hai wohi fasadi hain magar inko shaoor nahi.
The actions of ghazi brothers is manifest in this ayat.i pray for their souls n all those who died there because none of them was a non muslim.selective application of Islam can not be made.remember ghazi sahib was not even a mufti.
Some simple questions which u may answer 1. if ghazi sahib was pro shariat why did he defy the above mentioned ayats?? If no police station was registering an fir he could have directly approached the courts,the Chinese embassy etc but he chose abduction without authority.2. if ghazi rasheed was doing jihad why aziz sahib was running away in a burqa??if it was on some govt high ups request I dare ask was it shariat compliant,doesnt islam prohibit men from wearing women clothes3. if there were innocent girls/kids inside why did um e hassan run away from her charges??moreover ghazi sahib himself on tv quoted that no child below 12 was inside 9 refer aljazeera, geo tv)
4 why were there weapons 1,5,15 or any number inside the mosque.?? Ghazi sahib himself said on tv that he had weapons to last a month where did these weapons come from?? 5.why Chinese were targeted?? Why not the big addas at pir vidhai.was this because of a US link.6sadia im not supportive of the govt , I believe a lot of questions should be asked from those at the top but there mistakes cannot make ghazi sahib correct.i ask u if u were doing jihad then y did u surrender?? Isnt it unislamic to surrender if not prove it from Quran n sunnah
lets not confuse politics with religion.the govt as it is now has committed huge blunders.they should be addressed but by law not by might
amar bil maruf is not khuruj at all. plus all ulemas deobandies and berelvis consider musharraf a kafir though they do not have the power to say it alowed. I was quite shocked about this when i asked a prominent mufti in lahore if mush was a kafir for helping in war against afghanistan. He said yes. He said both deobandies and berelvies believe this. The salfi position is clear if you search on google with nullifiers of islam, you will see how many things apply to mush and his supporters.
osman>> no ulma / maulana has the right to declare anybody kafir.yeh tou wohi bat hai k jo hamaray khilaf ho woh kafir hai.jab musharraf or anybody else Allah k namlaiwa hain tou mai ya koi aur unn par kufr ka fatwa nahi laga sakta.aisay tamam ulma ka ilm kafi naqis lagta hai.musharraf ki boht si ghaltian hain but unn ghaltion sai ghazi sahib ki ghaltion ki justification nahi banti.amar bil maroof k liyay targheeb o tableegh ki zarorat hai na k voilance ki.nahi unil munkar ki khuch limits hain har society k rules hotay hain rules tor k Allah k nazdeek mufsid banna aur fisad philana jaiz nahi.ghazi k actions ki intiha kia hoti? mujhay hakomat dou aur kia?islam burqay aur prostitution pai hi sab hukm nahi deta. hamarai society mai aur boht si burraian hain wani,sanwara aur Quran sai shadee k khilaf jihad kiun nahi hota…smuggling karnay walay haji sahiban k khilaf jihad kiun nahi hota?? kalshinakof lenay aur denay walay doston k khilaf jihad k wakt yeh shariat kidar jati hai…anti musharraf honay sai islam badal nahi jata na hi implement hota hai….please do not call anybody kafir as only Allah is our witness
osman>> no ulma / maulana has the right to declare anybody kafir.yeh tou wohi bat hai k jo hamaray khilaf ho woh kafir hai.jab musharraf or anybody else Allah k namlaiwa hain tou mai ya koi aur unn par kufr ka fatwa nahi laga sakta.aisay tamam ulma ka ilm kafi naqis lagta hai.musharraf ki boht si ghaltian hain but unn ghaltion sai ghazi sahib ki ghaltion ki justification nahi banti.amar bil maroof k liyay targheeb o tableegh ki zarorat hai na k voilance ki.nahi unil munkar ki khuch limits hain har society k rules hotay hain rules tor k Allah k nazdeek mufsid banna aur fisad philana jaiz nahi.ghazi k actions ki intiha kia hoti? mujhay hakomat dou aur kia?islam burqay aur prostitution pai hi sab hukm nahi deta. hamarai society mai aur boht si burraian hain wani,sanwara aur Quran sai shadee k khilaf jihad kiun nahi hota…smuggling karnay walay haji sahiban k khilaf jihad kiun nahi hota?? kalshinakof lenay aur denay walay doston k khilaf jihad k wakt yeh shariat kidar jati hai…anti musharraf honay sai islam badal nahi jata na hi implement hota hai….please do not call anybody kafir as only Allah is our witness.ullema ki rayay Quran i pak par foqiat nahi rakhti.
nauman its very difficult to read your romanized urdu. Every one has the right to call another a kafir. The only issue is that if the accusers is wrong he himself becomes a kafir. I can call mush a kafir. If I am wrong I will become a kafir. This is from Sunnah. There is very strong daleel for mushs kufr. You are correct that if someone opposes you then you calling someone kafir is nonsense. But if you do it based on quran that is different.
If no one can call some one kafir then exaclty how were musilmans kazzabs followers declared kafirs? how were the munkiran zakat declared kafirs? how were the qaidanis declared kafirs.
Its very serious business to call someone a kafir. But when all ulema agree from every school of thought that someone or sect is a kafir like the qaidanis or mush then there is a lot of weight to the argument especially if they have a daleel.
anyways surah maidah verse 44..
And those who do not judge by what Allah has revealed are the kafirun.
1) All schools agree that deliberalty not implementing islamic law becuse thinking some other system is better is clear kufr. not doing out of weekness is acceptable according to some schools and not acceptable according to some. However going to war against those wanting sharia is clearely kufr.
2) Supporting kafirs againsts muslims in war is clear kufr. Agreed upon by Salfis, deobandies and berelvies. THis is basis for complete agreement on mush kufr by ulema.
It is imperative for ones own aikharat that one finds the truth.
What you have to realize is that finding the truth is as important for us muslims as it is for jews or hindus or christians.
Allah expects us to find the path too. Not just them.
For us muslims the fist thing we must make sure is that we understand shirk and kufr, so that we dont advertenlty end up being kafirs. For our own sakes.
when you explore this you will find remarkable amount of commanality among most islamic schools of thought thought adimitidly some difference too.
However, in the comaniltiy you will find things which will scare you about where we pakistanis stand.
Whether ghazi was wrong or right, I am not aware of any open kufr he did. He was apposed by mush who has certainly done open kufr in 2 if not more categories. Those who support his actions by heart and voice perhaps share his fate. Ulema opposed him because they said he did not have sufficient force to mount a rebellion. Question is did he actually do a rebellion. THere have been far bigger and more violent protest throughout the world without people being killed by their own governments.
Please find the turht for your self. Find out what Kufr and shirk are. Find the proofs and the daleel. Its guidance we all need.
You are absolutely correct that you have to have compelete islamic system. THe limit of Ghazis demand should be an islamic sharia based government not a kafir government like we have. If he wanted personal power for himself then he would have been wrong. However he said he would accept mush as amir if he implemented the sharia. Why he went after the prostitutes was because that was burai closet to him. Sahih Muslim hadith is clear about using strength to stop evil. Ofcourse if you do and you make a mistake you are liable. eg. if aunty shamim was a neik aurat then ghazi or whoever detained her should have been liable for detainment according to whatever sharia says. If however there was sufficient evidence against her well then.
Any ways as for Aunty Shamim, Sheik Rashid mother, a woman who says she would become a chirstian because of this has hardly any conviction about being a muslim.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=7476
poor naik aunty shamim and our politicians
osman >>>> if aiding kuffar against muslims is kufr then by ur definiton almost all our ullema including ghazi n those who participated in the afghan jihad (so called)are kuffar or all those muslims who were with najib were kuffar.this also makes all rulers including babar the gr8 who faught against ibrahim lodhi , mehmood ghaznavi who killed n raped muslims in kallat n iraqis n irani's are kuffar…i believe that we r making the mistake of labelling political disputes as religious disputes.Allah does not sanction mosques / madriisas on illegal lands.we have a clear example from sunnah on this.Allah alsdo does not allow killing of muslims in the name of shariat.remember 15 soldiers/policemen ( all muslims) died in this fight.Allah also does not permit lying cheating riba and a lot of other things.in your honest opinion anyone not offering prayers i.e a clear order from Allah is a kafir i.e not so.each sin has some punishment the higher you are the more responsibility u have towards Allah n his people.this was a shared responsibility which musharraf n ghazi had.the difference is that musharraf is an elected president weather by a deal or something else.ghazi was not even an mna.your definition of kafir interestingly also applies to the maulvi govt of nwfp where is sharia in nwfp? i ask you y ghazi sahib woke up to shariat only when jamia hifza was to bge demolished? y not before? was shariat as defined by ghazi present in pakistan before this…the answer is no…i do know that ghazi brothers were happy under the rule of army dictators before this.therefore their call for shariat to me is just politically motivated and foreign funded as the only beneficiaries of our bad relations with china are india america n israel.no support to prostitution is intended but i dare ask y more famous addas @ pirvidhai n heera mandee not shut down by our maulanas.vested interests….there shariat is certainly not islm.
as far as manian i zakat are concerned, understand that zaakat was the only tax on which system of governance was based in those times.it is ofcourse a clear order by which islamic society would flourish.the mujtahid was abu baqar razi Allah not ghazi rasheed.there is a differnce in stature.your allegation of musharraf being a qadiani is based on heresay..'what lies in one's heart is only known by Allah".in all govt departments a form is signed by all muslims declaring their faith.there have been qadiani christian n parsi generals in the pakistan army but by law no qadiani can become the cheif of army staff or president.musharraf signed that declartion when he was a cadet in pma.therefore by his own admission he is a kalma go muslim unless documentry evidence proves otherwise.if he is a qadiani his office should be challanged in the supreme court.lastly everything on the internet is not true.political propoganda n religious criminals do post even anti islamic websites..would u treat them as correct?satanic verses is a famous book written by a guaranteed hell bound author.its fame n circulation does not make it true.does it???????
u wrote "Whether ghazi was wrong or right, I am not aware of any open kufr he did"
Were the following acts for “a struggle to break the country free of shackles of a lawbreaker or “for the implementation of Shariah laws:
Illegal encroachment on a government land,
Illegal occupation of a childrens library,
Kidnapping and illegal confinement of women,
attack on businesses and forcing them to shut down,
Kidnapping of policemen,
Setting up parallel courts within a state against the laws of that state,
Kidnapping and illegal confinement of foreigners,
Snatching arms and equipments from security personnel,
Firing and killing security personnel,
damaging and burning, public and private property,
Keeping arms and ammunition in a mosque for no apparent reason,
not laying arms on the request of authorities and firing at security personnel during the leniency period of 5 full days,
keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endangering their lives (also many of them got killed during the operation).
If so many people have died and everything is so obvious with so many indications, then why is anyone not going to court? Secondly, when it was repeatedly announced for continuously five days that people inside should come out, and they will not be harmed, then what is the justification of anyone still hiding inside OR they were being kept there against their own will.
( as pointed by ordinary pakistani n i agree)
Asalamoalikum (this dialogue is mainly adressed to nauman)
4:75 And why should u not fight in the cause of Allah And of those who, being weak,
are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, Women, and children, Whose cry is:”Our Lord ! Rescue us from this town,
Whose people are oppressors;And raise for us from u one who will protect ; amnd raise for us from u One who
will help!”.
Surah Al Baqarah
2-191 and slay them when ever u catch them ,and turn them out from where they have turned u out ;
For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter;But fight them not At the sacred masjid,unless they (first)
Fight u there ;But if they fight u ,slay them (at masjid).Such is the reward Of those who suppress faith.
192:But if they cease,Allah is oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
193:And fight them on Until There is No more tumult and Oppression,And there prevail justice and
faith In Allah (subhana watalah).But if they cease, Let there be no Hostility Except to those
Who Practise oppressioin.
i would sadly say brother nauman i am highly disturbed by ur illresearched and biased statements.
.. have i ever adresserd u ….i was adressing to miss ayshas comments and for u to
to intrupt from no where and adressing to my issue was immodest and unethical (i sign a protest to ur
behaviour)secondly dear Brother i just dont know that instead of rallying up with the main stream u
are showing confrontation and mockry…. i realy dont get u.. u say some times this some times
that….but never clear…any way ill adress to clear ur mind up a bit ..well i can juat try
i dont know whats bothering u realy about maulana brothers yet still up to defend those
prostitues while u proclaim to have shown some witnesses in case of accusation ….
i got a strange taste of ur mixed up noodle…. should i cry or should i laugh .
The major problem we are facing today.
especially with lunatics like mubbashir on ONE channel talkshow quote verses of quran but
totaly out of context ….he quoted once the surah of holy quran” there is no compulsion in religion” and he
stated that if a woman or a man ….women in perticular ..wear any type of dress …
no one can object to them ….”the real problem starts right here u read a part of the quran and not full.
in context it shall be “there is no compulsion in religion truth stands out (away) from error”
that means u have to consider surah noor 24:30-31 (read this recommended http://www.ishwar.org/com(holyquran)).
so point is people play games with holy quran like jews and christians do to their bible.lot of verses in
bible clearly negates the things they say and do .
you quoted surah of holy quran 4:59 but u quote it out of context read 4:44-61.also 4:83
u will come to know that Allah subhana watala is telling us about jews and their demonic deeds.
jews invented lies upon lies and commited shirk upon shirk … allah tala is telling us that that they never
reffered to the scriptures given to Ibrahim (AS).so now after 4:56 i.e after mentioning the punishment
allah tala turns towards muslims and away from jews and is telling them that when u (believers) obey him and his
massanger and those charged with authority…if u disagree with those who are charged with authority among ]
u then refer it to Allah and his massanger if u do believe in allah and his massanger…now what does it mean
by reffereing it to allah and his massanger ….yes reffering to Holy Quran.show them holy quran so that they correct them selves.
u were totaly in error to lay alligation against molana reffering the surah .
instead read this to straighten ur self
2:44 Do u enjoin right conduct on the people ,and forget (to practice it) yourselves,and yet
u study the scripture?Will u not understand?
u mentioned that ” u can only fight them when ever u see them doing kuffr openly”.
brother i seriously ask u were u sleeping before lal musjid incident ,,,that u never saw any thing that is kufr according to quran
and sahih hadeeth……12th may incident is slaping ur lieing face hard .
have u read the surah of holy quran where Allah Said ” who so ever deals in intrust Allah
And His Rasool Rage war against him”……dont be speechless after reading this ayah i know u have read it before .
u say that u recquire 4 witnesses to prove 1 guilty for bad deed.
ur understanding of Holy quran seems to be null i am affraid so…
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u said and i quote “If we take Ghazi actions as correct then any one of us can start burning banks as they deal in interest/riba”
and the answer is:= Allah Said in Holy Quran ” who so ever deals in intrust Allah And His Rasool Rage war against him”
but i ask u how many banks did maulana burn …yet u lay a new and another lieing alligation which the governemt even wont back .
now
4 witnesses are required when the ruling law is shariah law and ruling goverment is according to Quran and sunnah.The
shariiah laws has never been implemented since establisment of pakistan.First we should understand why 4 witnesses are
required? When shariiah is properly implemented all women and men must dress up modestly and do hijab on all levels according
to surah noor 24:30-31.when people dress up modestly and opposite sexes dont try to feast upon each other …and unfortunatly
rape or prostitution takesplace then 4 witnesses are required because women already keep them selves behind vail(isolation).
so it might be difficult for them to prove their innosence .so it becomes an obligation upon the accuser to bring forth 4 witnesses.
it is ordered to believeing men that they should not waste time in wondering arround the streets and ordered to women to move in streets very quickly
while going from one place to another so that one might not be able to breed disease in his heart for long.
look at media look at television look at people arround, look at the movies people watch, look at the children in
schools and colleges what is our youth mostly talking about.they are talking about exactly what]
media is propagating .i think there was a statement of indra ghandhi which burried muslim pakistan long ago.
Stating this humilliating statement which is enough for us to burry our selves
in shame she said “we have defeated pakistan on cultural and social levels go to the citis of karachi and examin the video shops they
are full of indian movies and culture”.But i say, go to any city of pakistan and u will find hindustani culture almost every.
During Lal Majid senario i was watching this horror on GEO television and there was a commercial break.
a female model comes to screen and says that she was going to introduce to us a very important and top personality.
yes ur famous actress prianka chopra .sadly i would say at this point our publics eyes and mouth opens up wide
upon hearing their beloved hindu actors and actresses names . They say we are muslims but if ask about a few names of our beloved sahabs
they ask in astonishment that who are they !? ….O allah give us Hidayah!!!i was speach less on her this statement.the model asked her
what do u want to say to pakistani people.she replied it is ur love and dedication that we are successful in our
movies we make these movies only for u…. this is a time for us to slap our Faces harder and ask who are we …why did we seperate pakistan and for what?
u talk about 4 witnesses yet i ask u in this age of science and technology especially
in secular state of pakistan where u must be aware of KB internet cafe incident where video cameras captured every thing.
Do u still require 4 witnesses .today after advancements in medical and bilogical sciences we can examin all sorts of matters with huge amounts of evidences.
To help u out in recovering ur short term memory
data loss .Do u remember hadood bill passed by the government.All newspapers are full of stories and reports u can cross check
that several prostitues of heera mandee distributed sweets among each other on passing of hadoodbill also in the parliment
several politions distributed sweets among each other in the parliment this was shown live on tv channels.
several top level newspapers conducted interviews with some of the sex workers of heera mandee …who stated joy fully that
many of them left this area cuz police took lota commission from them as well as they bothered the customers but now after the bill has passed
police can not interfere.scrach ur mischievous head and ask ur self isnt it a secular state.if it is not why would prostitutes
distribute sweets?
reguarding antee shameem and Co it is very simple …let her be examined medicaly and truth shall free her ….it was enough
to say that international media portrayed them as prostitues because its not a big deal for them after all its legalised in their
countries so they dont care .But still u are up to defend those prostitues so much i ask u what was the need for international media to show this women along with
others as prostitues.more over why did not government take action upon this issue correcting the international media…
Or better yet the answer lies in our own media explanation..why was GEO continuously calling her as antee shameem…..? why antee shameem?
Why Not Mohterma Shameem sahibah? why not miss shameem sahibah ? after all she was a lady…but instead GEO and other tv channels called her as
antee shameem? i recquire a logical answer backed by solid proof …i strainghted ur propaganda so back at u buddy ….
banee israeel asked for cow specifications and Allah made it harder on them to even find the cow…but words
some how keep adding to the lieing toung of people like bush?
there are several talk shows on geo tv as well as some other programs on which they show saympathy towards prostitues…several talks shows
are being conducted to defend and legitimise their deeds….is this secular pakistan or what ?
cuz in an islamic state under shariiah law such things can never occure!
did molana sahib even harm her when she was being held under their custedy but instead the women of the masjid told her about the right way and
teachings of our deen and they freed her …. how much broozes she had when she left the masjid?
dont be a hypocrite brother nauman!
Now i felt Big Hypocracy behind ur intention in mentioning of 2nd ayah …..
who gave u the authority to impose the meanings of ayah over ghazi brothers ….u have totaly lost ur mind and soul ….
how come u say that ghazi brothers fit in this ayah and not the government .i find u totally illogical.
recal ur short term memory again to 12th of May when 40+ innoscent people were murdered by MQM terrorists underthe super vision
of government.President Musharaf said during his speech on that day” we have demostrated our might and power today in karachi”.
what does this mean?
You gave another hypocratic remark saying that Maulna sahab should have gone to court …!?
Mr Nauman are u running in a high fever ?
Chaudry Iftekhar was begging for justice him self in the same courts which u reffered to.
i remember reading a column in express newspaper …Jawed Chaudhry stated an incident about a boy who was
kidnaped by agencies and his parents after getting disappointed from police came to him and asked him to help them
locate their son.he said how can i even help u when a judge cant find justice for him self in the same courts where 1ce he offered his job?
Also several mothers were protesting in front of lal majid for a long time for their sons being kidnaped by unknown people.
the newspapers back then were full of their pictures holding portraits of their love ones…?
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reguarding ur 2nd question….first off …try to read holy quran and with translation before u die cuz u might get some answers.
u asked “ghazi rasheed was doing jihad why aziz sahib was running away in a burqa??
if it was on some govt high ups request I dare ask was it shariat compliant,
doesnt islam prohibit men from wearing women clothes” (an enemy would think exactly like that with out considering the possibilities
or at least try to continuously advocate against the defender on the other hand a friend will give it some thoughts)
the answer to ur alligation is that have u read the ayah in Holy quran which says that u can have the meat of a pig ie the unlawful becomes lawful
when u have to save ur life …but have it so much so that u can survive until u get the lawful…most of us muslims know
about this ayah…more over when any government muslim/nonmuslim sends its disguised agents abroad …many times they disguise them selves as hindu
pundits some times as priests etc …does this mean they become non muslims ..most certainly not ….in war u acquire means what ever necessary to decieve ur enemy to gain
upper hand over them startegicaly. that is quite understandable but since u are v young to understand this point i ask u that
suppose i agree with u for sake of arrgument that maulana aziz ghazee sahib did wear it intentionaly ….what kind of punnishment shariiyah gives for this act…
more over that act just seperate only 1 person from thousands of other fightining for just cause …so ur accusatiion is lame and doesnot justify the governments brutal blood bath at lala Shrine .
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ur third question is totally false .what charges she had at the first place ..u make me laugh Mr nauman
u get feeds with out cross checking …tell me did the same people not put charges on Chaudry iftekhar …the result is
there in front of u….he won and government lost …2ndly if government has put charges over her …yet i ask has she been given fair trial yet to at least
defend her self………brother noman u are accusing highly respect and reputed muslims even respected by government personalities like
ijazul haq….so try to be a litrate and modest muslim …when ever u call her name again try to call her respected umme hassan.
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media was getting all the information from army cuz of curfew so there was no independent
source at all and every one was relying on army sources at 2AM while starting operation scilence durrani and Co stated at the
end of their speech while their adress to media and nation “who so ever tried to politicise
lal musjid happenings like 12th may incident (media coverage) shall be dealt in the same mannar as we are dealing with lal masjid.
after that all media tone was strictly changed to be be biased towards government.
u asked why were there 1515 number of weapons inside the masjid ?
firstly maulana sahib continuously said on tv stations that we dont have much weapons we have few weapons and we have
lisences for that to which no government person objected but instead he said that they had sufficient food for the time being
but lack of water because water had been cut off….but most importantly where did u get this 1515 figure from ? did u go ur self over there u say no
you saw it on tv …i ask ok my son was tv allowed there immidiatly after operation scilence was finshed ..and the answer is no…well my friend
go to a newspaper sellar and ask for newspaper in which the pictures were printed showing weapons in side the masjid …..
thousands of people are asking questions that every thing after the operation can be seen fully dusty and unclean/burned along with dust bodies
burned scarched by the bullets and broozed.but how come before dieing they decided to clean the weapons and place unused.
there was not a single dust particle over any of the shown weapon..more over how can u trust the government and pass over the thought
that they cant be implanted by government..
remember the incident when government showed 7 bodies of out siders claiming that they arent pakistanies …but later next day after pictures came in news
paper 1 body was identified by a women and she along with her nazim went to claim the body of
her son named usman who got his shahadat in the masjid and he was a teenager .his brother was in hosppital with injuries.
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stupid and false question .. the chinese case was investigated and after passing of few
hours they even showed the relative of those chinese in peshwer…both police and government
made it very clear that the chinese murders had nothing to do with lal masjid incident .
those were muslim chinese murchants who were told several times by police tohire some gurads to avoid a possible
robbery.they acknowledged the fact and replied that they arent strong enough finnacialy to
hire a security guard..according to police it was an armed robbery……so keep ur self up to date.
u disappointed me dear brother ….the suran u quoted above actually fits on u…
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Mr nauman u are asking her that why did she surrender ? u are v cold hearted person …no one surrendered …
neither was any 1 willing to surrender …this term was shoveld down ur throats by government ..
it was governments terminology…here u negate ur self u are a true goverment supporter …u said above
u were not but now u prove it over and over…u and people like u never use ur heads and with analysing and
investigating u hear and u propagate …. with out considering the possibility that it could be false …
Prophet mohammad PBUH said “when dejjal will come he will say its day and people will say yes it is when he
will say its night people will say yes ” but Holy quran says that..” if a person (or source)upon whom u have doughts
approach u and gives u news dont believe it check it up before u pass it to others …
Do u adress to ur mother and sister in the same mannerlike u are adressing to her…sister sadia is a mazloom …she is a victom
…instead being sympethetic to her u insult her and she is our sister try to talk in appropriate manner ..try to learn some manners
i dare u to state ur self but not with lies cuz i had enough from u
Asalamoalikum.
Nauman you proclaim to be a neutral person yet u are a full time government supporter.
in your last dialogue u openly spoke for the government and totaly copy their words.
u have totaly opposed maulana with biased reasoning
and exposed ur self cuz u are openly advocating the government.And this is outrageous.
let me enlighten u dear brother
a few months back there was a hot issue opened by the newspapers that several police men and government
agencies had some torture cells ..and they kidnapped thousands of people with out any case and tortured
them in those cells for unlimited ammount of time.u can crosscheck all news papers .this was
long before lal masjid incident.and news papers told about few hotels that were used for this kind of work.
Nauman if urfather or mother or brother or sisterunfortunatly happend to be in those kidnapped and
trotured persons what would u do? where would u get the help from..
before giving bad name to jihadi organisations in pakistan just watch the recent video footage by
hamid mir on flooded areas…many people stated on record that no government help yet approached them
except young boys from jehadi organistaions from serhed came to help them.hamid mir went to interview the sindh minister reponcible for
flood relief and asked him that why did he not send help..the minister replied while cuoting names
of few flooded areas that they were cut off cuz the tracks to these areas have been over come by floods.
hamid mir repplied that he was comming from the same areas and he reached those people and helped them the
way he could and recorded their statements and he had limited resources …why couldnt he being a minister go
there using his resources.he started mumbling and said this foolish statement.” O well this is what the opposition try
to insult me and take me down”(Curtsy Geo TV )…Is president musheref ware of these kind of ministers.
how can he let people like him rule as irresponcible minster keeping so many lives at stake.
Our Beloved Khaleefa Rashid Hezret Umer (RA) said “if even a dog dies thursty in my kingdom i would be held responcible by Allah on day of judgement”
then how could just these ministers sleep well while people are dieing with hunger thirst and disease.
brother nauman ghazee raheed sahab is asking u a question that when government agencies were kidnapping their
students unlawfuly …who was going to get them back…the agencies detained them unlawfully, took their clothes
off and started beating them called their parents bad words saying we will get ur parents as well and
and torture them..they called horrible words on them.
the agency cars blocked the way of female students of jamia hefza almost every day and said unspeakble words
to them so that they disperse away from jamia hafza (RA).
can u even question those agency personals that did our holy prophet PBUH preach such methodlogy
to be adopted but instead he said to the captives of war that who so ever can teach 10 words
to a muslim can go free.he did not torture them ever .Prophet Mohammad PBUH forgave hindah who ate his bloved uncles liver.
but we are talking about muslim lives here.they were butchred for demanding shriyah law.
read the interview of General Mirza Aslam Beig ..he said on tv in Dr shaids Programm Maira Mutabik that
children from Becon House came to mulana Rasheed Shaheed rehmatullah Aliah and told him about chinese massage centre.
Becon House school children demanded action from maulana to remove the filth from their city.
General said why would becon house children come to maulana .this doesnt make sense
for people with modernized ideology to go to people like mulana brothers.this seems a setup according to General Mirza Aslam beig sahab
and it was staged.
About antee shameem that people living near her house came to maulana and during his khutbas people
said to him …that u talk about cleanlenessand eeman while people like her are making this place filthy.
we went to police and they dont take action.please help us.
the two brothers were forced to take action.
taaa mooroo na bil maroof wa nehahu anil munker wa tu manoo na billah
moomin woh hai jo acha eee ka hukum daita hain aur buraai sai rookta hai ..
if police is not doing any thing and maulana took action …was it wrong if it was wrong how long should one wait a our youth get distroyed .
go infront of central hospital rawalpindi and see for ur self that there is a antee with several young girls there …they
group up there mostlty night times from 8 and onwards .i use to come via that road from my friends shop to my home and 1 day
i asked my friend on motorcycle that this group looks fishy …the aunty is having pan and she has a mobile
and there is a group of boys trying to talk to the group of girls with the antee and they are giving cheep smiles.my
friend told me that this is the story i got angery that its happening so openly lets go and tell the police .he said they have the
backing of police other wise that antee cant run her buisness so well in th eopen.and he was right
we went a few steps further and there were 3 police men standing over there ..i got realy disappointed .
reguarding kidnapping of policemen by maulana…..to tell u the back ground a suzuki mehran was petroling
in front of lal masjid over and over students took notice of the car slowing down infront of
lal masjid repeatedly.there were few men wearing shalwarkameez and they looked at the stoudents and the
lal masjid suspiciously.the students feared that they could be planning a bomb blast or to fire upon people of
lal masjid and they cought them and brought them inside the masjid.maulana came up to them and asked them
to identify them selves and what were they doing in front of the masjid. they said that they were policemen
and maulana asked why were u in civilian suits why not in police suits so that we could have recognised
u they repplied that they were spying on lal masjid.maulana called the government people
and asked them that were they sent by them …and they said yes we sent these police men .
maulana asked why did u let them spy on us and they did not reply.(Curtsy GEO TV)
1.Brother Nauman Unfortunatly if some body kidnaps ur sister or mother and rapes her and
police is unable to do some thing about it ..what will u do ?
i know hundreds of such cases in punjab sindh and serhed …if u can help let me acquire ur sevices
for allah will give u reward for this.
2.many cases came to ghazi brothers and he told hamid meer in an interview in the lal masjid
about several people who were being harrased by people in power and no one could do
any thing to help them.when u are so much help less and no one takes responcibility
to provide u justice people take law into their own hads.
3.Read the book Military Inc by Dr ayysha sidiqque ur mumbling mouth will rest for a
couple of years from defending this ferishta government.
4.if the top judge recquires more than 6 months to justice for him self how can a common
man get justice for him self.
5.I quote u my own personal experiences … my grandfather took loan from house building finance
corporation.we payed the loan in full and went to the court near fatima jinnah university.
they give a recipt after verifying the case and government charges some money.My father Took 550
ruppes along with him .when we saw the charging recipt i was astonished to see the charge.
it was 1110 Rs.may father said that how can it be it can never be that much.we saw a relative
of ours who came here quite often for the same purpose.we had to go back home to get more money
and it seemed a hard thing to do in scorching heat of sun light.our relative said let me talk to them
and i thought what is going to talk about if its a government fee how can they even leave us a penny.
we were about to leave and he returned saying give me the money and he got it done and got the recipt.
we barrowed 450 from him and payed the government with total of 1000 Rs.
i was praying for him and those government people in the court who solved our case with 110 Rs less
.but when i took a look at the recipt it was marked with 100Rs charge.i got furious and
said to my uncle let us talk to them ..this is outragious ..they are looting us in the open.
my uncle said yeasterday he came to check on a file and they charged a fee ….he said he asked for it
that whats the charge for and they made the file lost he gave them 300 Rs and the file was found.
he said they will make our file lost again and we might have to pay more than expected so just get out of here.
tell me where should i go to for justice.
6.not only that my uncle ran a rent a car buisness .he ran it in partnership.he had toyota 2OD and a suzuki carry.
one day they got robed and car jackers threw the driver out.my uncle had to close down his buisness
due to huge blow in buisness.he couldnt stand up and started working at a shop to make money for daily bread .
after a month or 2 some of his relatives from down punjab called him and told him that what was
his carry and 2OD doing in their city far away from Rawalpindi.my uncle told him about every thing and immidiatly went to
them.they went to the city police station and reported the crime.police investigated and then did not reply.
they went again to them and asked for the progress police told them that this is futile u cant get them.
my uncle asked why and police man replied that the car jackers are relative are Chaudery Shujjat.we
value our lives as well as the lives of our families.we dont want to wake up dead.
we cant even bother those people.just go home ur cars are lost for ever.Now can u help me MR nouman in this case.
7. a cousin of mine who is now in UK used to work as a driver and a loader for the army two years back.
his task was to load boxes and drive them some place.An army person ranking subedar major or
some one like that always accompaiedd him.one day they were stoped at attock check post
and security checkedd their boxes.they immidiatly got the arrested cuz they found out (cheresss) white
powder in those boxes. my cousin grabed that army guy by the collor and started crying that
i am just a poor driver why did u not tell me and kept me blind .how am i going to feed my poor family.security
acknowledged his innosence and let him go.but next day i never read the incident in the newspapers or the days after that.
these are just just three incidents happened to me and my relatives personaly out of 10s of thousands
happening every day.
8.after the earth quake incident several stories were heard which were horrible that i cant describe …i was there
along with other brothers to help the victoms .it was horrible every where .there was an incident happend
reported in the newspapers that an army Dr with a captain rank raped a woman already a victom of earth quake
and then he ran away.he took refuge some where and was never brought to justice.
several incidents reported in newspapers about kashmir where NGOs used the loal village girls and raped them and forced them to do the dirty jobs ..
they were threatened via several ways and black mailed and manipulated.the girls giving interview
to several newspapers told that many girls had no one left to take care of them so they were keeping quite
because they were very affraid.some were left with old parents to take care of and had no choice but to work
with NGOs .we along with a few others couldnt bear it.they at first talked us nicly and gave us jobs with good
salries but after a few days they started telling us to work late hours .onday they gave us some kind of drings and
juices and told us to sit in the office .we drank them and got unconcious ..when we woke up our clothes were torn off
and we were nacked .they showed us our pictures taklen in that condition and told us to work with them
or they will black mail them.these are not made up stories by me the news papers back then were full of these stories
u can cross check… for me there are enough rape stories to read in iraq by american army.
9.thousands of rapes take place every day .just a very few people like mukhtaran maeee get the attention
of international organisations .and they cashed her out to insult our government further and image of
pakistan was let down.why couldnt people like mukhtaran maee find justice in pakistan.
10. several people like ghazee have lava inside their hearts that cant be kept in side because
of so much injustice.
11. u say pakistan will never be secular…i think u are day dreaming…our country deals in ribah
and allah said in holy quran that “who so ever deals in ribah allah and his massanger rage war against him”.
our tv channels show nudeness and nakedness as a part of our unislamic culture.
even children are being given sex education via cartoons.the advancement in the media has brought
more negative impact upon our social and moral values than even a bit of +ve.indian movies given
appriciation shows reflection of indian culture in pakistan.so what are u crying about.pakistan is not pakistan any more.
it never has been.people get their moral education via stage dramas and government supports
them.
12.think bigger and on a broader scale .Holy quran and hadeeths of holy prophet PBUH told us about
comming fitna of dejjal .70 flags will gather to fight the muslims .what is united nations and what does it do.
where it was when there was genoside in bosnia and chechniya…where is it when innoscent people are being killed by the thousands
in afganistan iraq kashmir suddan somalia and palestine.where was it when 710000 people were killed in rawanda.
13.do u know who helped out americans in somalia against islamic groups fightining for freedom over there…yes pakistani army.
watch the movie by ridly scott BLACK HAWK DOWN.
14.why did pakistani troops help americans in somalia …what purpose did it surve after all americans lost
the war in somalia.
15 i used to go to islamic chat rooms in yahoo and every one knows well that several
people come there to maline islam.i came across a US soldier during the voice chat.
he was insulting muslims … i got him in a seperate chat room and asked him for
what was his religion.he said he was a christian .i told him about a few verses
in bible..saying jessus said love ur enemies…and another one saying if some 1 slaps u on
one cheek offer him the other ..he got ashamed …. later on he asked me where i was from and i told him.
he said O man we are comming to Pakistan soon. i thought it was meant for a joke.he became
my friend and after a few months i left chatting with him cuz he started telling me about
incidents in iraq.but his sentence “comming to pakistan” was reminded to me once when their troops
and helicopters came to pakistan for earth quake relief…and now the every day news are full
with the threats of american government for sending troops to pakistan .and recently a few months back they passed
a resultion that american army could perform operations any where in the world with out concerning the relative government.
Now every day i am reminded of that soldier….why he said that ….u see for ur self in vazeeristan.
they might be planning to de-nuclreaise pakitan and that a part of their old plan.their think tanks already gave reports
and metodologies on how to wipe pakistan off the map and process already started via separation
of east pakistan from west and now bhugtti incident and vazeeristan and so on and so forth.
God help us all
Dark cloud & zone of enders
I will try to address u both in the same post.firstly my argument is not in support of the govt.i believe that there should be a judicial inquiry into this incident.i would like answers to the following questions from this inquiry
1. why cda was sleeping while encroachment by jamia hafza was going on.
2. why were these encroachers (govt servants) khatteb/naib khatib not punished for this illegal act.
3. why ghazi rasheed was let of an year ago in an illegal arms case.if he was innocent the other party should be punished.
4.why there were weapons even 15 licensed or not inside the mosque?
5.how were our agencies unaware about the buildup to this event.
6. what was the role of wafaq ul madaris in this.
7.if there was a deal what were the actual contents n who were the negotiaters.
Lot of questions surround this saga.the role of our political maulanas is still not defined.
Now coming to your specific post.u have quoted the Quran( numerous verses) to prove me wrong.but u r missing the point.my questions still remain unanswered.i dare say that we have a religious alliance ruling nwfp.partially ruling balochistan and having a large representation in the national assembly.if any of our representative maulanas would have launched such a campaign it would hv had a semblance of moral and ethical value.my main opposition to ghazi brothers call for an illegal jihad stems from this.other less confrontational n more appropriate ways could have been devised to really enforce the word of Allah.i have still not read any document by both these brothers or any other maulana in Pakistan which really outlines their concept of shariat.mostly as mentioned in your post our shariat revolves around jihad n pardah etc.there are no details about ways n means to govern i.e. no detailed penal code,no explaination of the banking /financial system.none what so ever about a comprehensive shariat representative of all sects.e,g the concept of parda as jamia hafza practices A la maudodi is not agreed to by many other sects.which brand of shariat would be the over riding one .this question remains unanswered.i challenge all maulanas to produce a comprehensive legal document based on Quran n hadis n get it approved from a representative board of scholars from all sects.
Now coming to ghazi sahib call for jihad I will still call it kharuj as ghazi can by no means be defined as a leader of mass following.he has never contested any elections.if his leadership is to be agreed to in principle then he compares with all military dictators who came to power by might not right. I will refer to you surat infal ayat 60 this ayat defines the preparations for jihad without these preparations no jihad is valid.i also quote the following ayat i.e ayat 61Allah says n I translate “ and if they bend towards peace/accord then u all bend yourself and trust in Allah no doubt that he is all hearing and all knowing
The govt throughout its 7 days negotiations was pressing towards peace.i also refer to the sunnah of our beloved prophet (p.b.u.h) “ the sulah hudaibia is an eye opener for all of us. The above referred ayats in no way intend to make ppl gather a lot of weapons n start jihad against n Islamic govt.i believe that you are not serving the cause of islam by quoting quran out of context.
U have alleged that I should conform to the main stream . I dare say that the prophet(p.b.u.h) at the time of jahiliat was not in the main stream but he was speaking the truth.i would be honoured n very lucky if Allah grants me a tiny piece of heaven for following the sunnah.
12th may incident is under judicial inquiry.the verdict shd come out n the guilty punished but the criminal activities of some one do not justify another criminal activity .
ur point about banks. It was a comparison in unjustified reactions taking over the childrens library , burning govt offices all in the name of jihad.
4 witnesses/tauhmat..i disagree about your point regarding the requirement of 4 witnesses.one witness or medico legal exam is enough for zanna bil jabber.for zanna bil raza the requirement of 4 witnesses is because of the gravity of the allegation.just consider if some one abducts your sister takes her to a mosque presents her before the media n alleges that she is involved in immoral activities what izzat would a shareef aurat/family then havethe women even if returned without physical injury would never be able to show her face anywhere.kia kissi bhi aurat ko utha kar apnay pas rakhna kisi bhi maksad k liyay har k as o nakas k liyay jaiz hai???I do not say that auntie shamim or Chinese massage girls were prostitutes bcoz my religion does not allow me to do so…the word auntie is not a shameful word.it is the equivalent of khala/massi.however words can be misused.moreover single camera evidence is not acceptable in any court of law (internet café) however there should be strong checks on internet cafes n isps to block porn sites.
I have not touched upon hadood bill that is for the federal shariat court n the parliament to decide.my responsibility is to elect good representatives. I hv never supported heera mundee.your allegation is without proof.
Courts.u called me a hypocrat.n said that I should laugh at even the thought of ghazi approachingthe courts.lets c didnt ghazi brothers n their supporters demand a judicial probe into this incident.why ask a court in which u do not believe of getting justice.why maulana aziz etc are appearing before a court n pleading saying again n again that they trust the courts. What a mockery these brothers are making!!!!!
Burqa n lal shrine.u amazed me almost 1200 people came out of lal masjid7 to 800 males.only aziz sahib was dressed in a burqa.did he fear for his life? If so why isnt he dead yet? Why didnt the govt shoot him dressed in that burqa.the aim of the govt was to kill him as u alleged he is still alive.his daughter today has been freed.my short term memory tells me that only those khwarig / extremist died who did not surrender.aziz sahibs actions has caused shame on a decent garb i.e the burqa.
Weapons.. ghazi first claimed he had 15 rifles etc in the mosque.later he said that he had enough weapons n ammunnations to survive till a month.on the first day of the op announcements were made from inside the mosque that suicide bombers are being prepared.all this was telecast all over the media( u may check).do suicide bombers wear rifles n bullets for bombings or is it bombs . I dont believe that the claims from lal mosque were false.now dont say tht all tht is proven against ghazi brothers was tactics by the brothers to mislead kuffar n all the govt or media says is lies..u misread the number of rifles . it was 15 only not 1515 as u mentioned. I believe that the numer of weapons was much more than 15 coz 15 rifles cannot be used in continuation.license or no license..use of weapons against fellow muslims/police authorities is not allowed.
Chineseu r deliberately misrepresenting. I was referring to Chinese girls abducted by ghazee.i again ask was he in service with America?
Surrender made by sadia habib etc. if they were not surrendering what were they doing?running for their lives,abandoning so called jihad?????????what hypocricy..if they lacked the will to make a stand why did they they spread so much of fasad in the society.i believe that every student of lal masjid was a mazloom bcoz they were indoctorinated with a false belief about islam.all of them need psychiatric help.i asked her a simple question.chor ki darhi mai tinka hou tou who yehi kehta hai..in my entire post I have not insulted you which you did in you post but ofcourse those who follow islam like u do are allowed to abuse abduct n kill anybody they feel like
This is especially for zone of endersin Pakistan conditions are not ideal.we have to work towards such a situation through elections n other lawful meansnobody can be allowed to take law in their own hands .in the same Pakistan the chief justice has been restored.islamabad police/motorway police another good examples..15 n rescue1122 have responded adequately to calls made by me in person.some bad things do happen but we should not lose hope ion Pakistan if we are a part of it.
dark cloud ( yesterday i forgot to mention few things)
By Dark Cloud on Aug 17, 2007 | Reply
have i ever adresserd u .i was adressing to miss ayshas comments and for u to
to intrupt from no where and adressing to my issue was immodest and unethical (i sign a protest to ur behaviour)
By ayesha on Aug 11, 2007 | Reply
MR HAQS LAST WORDS
( the post to which you are reffering to wasnt even addressed to you.it was addressed to haq and i think u answered to clear your point or as haq did not reply…the same thing i did…ayesha did not reply ur post so i did it)
By saadia Habib on Aug 13, 2007 | Reply
Madam Ayesha ur point keh etnay sary namehram kasay akhathay reh rahay ( again ayesha was not talking to sadia habib so why she answered).
u wrote “Mr nauman u are asking her that why did she surrender ? u are v cold hearted person no one surrendered
neither was any 1 willing to surrender this term was shoveld down ur throats by government” ..
By saadia Habib on Aug 13, 2007 | Reply
“information main nay b akhri din Ume Hassan kay sath he serrender kea tha. ”
she herself using this term so why blaming me
u wrote “when ever u call her name again try to call her respected umme hassan.”
lolz read above sadia herself calling her by name…..and i have never humiliated or abused this lady in my post ever….but you should have also raised your voice when people call the policemen/army as kuffars.
u wrote……..”try to learn some manners ”
look who is talking…………several points from your post
1.ur understanding of Holy quran seems to be null i am affraid so
2.dont be a hypocrite brother nauman!
3.Mr Nauman are u running in a high fever ?
4.u and people like u never use ur heads
5.so try to be a litrate and modest muslim
u wrote…”Do u adress to ur mother and sister in the same mannerlike u are adressing to hersister sadia is a mazloom she is a victom”
i think i was very polite while asking her a question
n now u look at your post which was addressed to aisha
1.By dark cloud on Aug 13, 2007 | Reply
Miss ayesha ..u ask for proofs i think u should wipe ur Face and brush ur teeth before even propagating ur bogus and ill Researched trash.u ask for “islamic logic yet i ask u have u ever Read quran beside the surahs of chapter 30 with translation.
2. i think its enough food for u to digest for couple of eons .
now sadia habib post
1.By saadia Habib on Aug 13, 2007 | Reply
but problem with people is they dont want to see thre ugly faces..
2.aur han jis cheez ka pata na ho us kay baray main bluff na kea karo…
i have never in my post abused/insulted u ever…..
i Think that we should not oppose Ghazi Abdul Rashid (Shaheed), only because we dont belong to his firga or support their views.
we should analyze the sitution netrally, as we have to die one day and to answer before god.
This is brutual killing by Government just to get suympathy of U.S.
” Yeh Baazi Haaq Ki Baazi Hai
Yeh Baazi Tum Hi Haroo Gay
Har Gha Say Ghazi Niklay Ga
Tum Kitne Ghazi Marooo Gay.”
” Yeh Baazi Haaq Ki Baazi Hai
Yeh Baazi Tum Hi Haroo Gay
Har Gha Say Ghazi Niklay Ga
Tum Kitne Ghazi Marooo Gay.”
Dedicated to:
Ghazi Abdul Rashid Shaeed
If someone says anything negative about Islam,Quran,or anything related to Islam and if somebody reacts it means He/She is extremist.Or if somebody practices Islam in a proper way he is an extremist.
Is this the meaning of ‘Religious Extremist’??
” neem hakeem khatra e jan
neem mullah khatrah e eman”
khuch mohtissabon ki khulwat mai khuch waiz k ghar jati hai
what if ghazi sahib was an american agent??????
who else would abduct chinese???????????
waisay bhi
” ab shehr mai har rind i kharabat wali hai”
Teeth Maestro
im sorry…by mistake i submitted my post twice…
asalamualaikum
being a muslim & being a pakistani i am very confident to say that hazrat molana abdurashid ghazi is shaheed not halak becouse he was killed only for defending islam & mosques in islamabad i congragulate to shaheed ghazi with his fellows for their great shahadat & i also pray for shahadat by almighty allah for myself.
Dark Cloud, You have not answered Nauman’s question: if some one alleges that your sister or mother is involved in immoral activities and take her to a mosque without her will and keep her there without her will, would you be happy about that? That she is being treated nicely and women of masjid are trying to “reprogram” her mind with good teachings and after that she will be sent back to you with respect not humiliation. It would have to be done quietly to avoid media attention.
I dont appreciate you calling someone filth.
If in you opinion Government is kafir and unislamic, then what are your next plans? If there are around 97% Muslims with you, how many stand with you to wage Jihad against Government and army?
I also require some information for my own knowledge. Since you look so knowledgeable, please throw some light on: In Islamic Shariah, what would be the ways n means to govern? Would it be significantly different from democracy. How will a banking /financial system work. And whether all the sects will agree on all the minor details of the system which is in your mind?
bhagat singh was a shaheed.say the indians if the word shaheed is to die for one’s cause and has no religious associations then all who die for their causes can be called shaheeds by their supporters.
islam has nothing to do with it.our job is to analyze all actions in the light of islamic teachings regardless of many crimes/sins committed by the present govt , i can say this with conviction, that the actions of ghaze rasheed , maulana aziz n umme hassan were unislamic,hypocritical,self serving n down right criminal.
being a practicing muslim i hv to follow quran n sunnah n both do not allow me to support such actions.
Asalamoalikum
Brother noman before i say any thing about any thing first thing about sister aysha and u is that u both
are attacking on shuhadaa aggressivly .ur words are so much mocking and irritaing for many of us .
u cant call ur selves to be
good examples cuz u mock and oppose,.. weak and oppressed and conqured by those who sought to escape their deaths at the hands of americans.
***********************************************
((Nauman))
my questions still remain unanswered.i dare say that we have a religious alliance ruling nwfp.
partially ruling balochistan and having a large representation in the national assembly.
if any of our representative maulanas would have launched such a campaign it would hv had a
semblance of moral and ethical value….
((Dark Cloud))
who in the heavons name told u that MMA and related parties are the ideal or examplery muslims.
why did u even quote them as representators of islam by any means.instead they are the pure traitors
and zalims …the real culprits and full time Musheref supporters..they are among the deaf the dumb and the
blind.total hypocrates and enemies of islam.they could have washed their sins if they just protested
in front of the masjid during the operation scilence by creating human chain and could have saved thousands
innoscent lives.But instead they went to UK to conduct APC to secure their uncertain future for $$$ national treasure hunt.
***********************************************
((Nauman))
my main opposition to ghazi brothers call for an illegal jihad stems from this.other less
confrontational n more appropriate ways could have been devised to really enforce the word
of Allah .
(Dark Cloud)
the jihad of maulana brothers is perfactly legal in the light of fallowing hadeeth by our beloved peophet.
prophet PBUH said(Jabir Hakim kaa saamm-naa kelima Haq Kehna Jihad Hai)…how could u even
comprehend it as an illegal jihad.isnt the government doing jihad fee sabil shaitan in vana and vazeeristan…carrying out bloody task for the americans.
isnt the government jabir to kill innoscent children in the medrisa in bajoor agency ..it was the americans who bombed the places there
before and still continue to bomb but pakistani government took the blame on them selves even more hideous crime.
few days bak many newspapers published the news about nato forces clearly violating pakistani boundries and
bombing pakistani villages killing pakistani innoscent people who is gona pay for that and when?
…children were awarded with particles of tasbeeh penetrated into their innoscent eyes and faces..
(Curtsy Maulana Shah Abdul Aziz [MNA] serhed stating facts in hamid meers progarm on GEO).
2-3 years back news papers were painted all over by the name of Ch shujjat.his storage houses were
cought up with illegaly stored sugar.Zakheera Andoozi.every one knows that…what kind of action
was taken by Gr Musheref Government till now againts this hideous crime.More over Ch shujjat is still a
minister what Good aspect of the government does it show.and to which court will u go for the case .
imarn khan refferend to a code in the constitution of pakistan and said that if u implement that code in
pakistan almost more than half of the parlement will become empty because according to that code
one condition states “the person should be clean of any case especialy murder.Mr Imran Khan recently
won the case against MQM in canadian court .Canadian court gave her verdit for MQM as a terrorist
organisation.the question is …cant our own government differentiate between terrorists and non-terrorists.
12th of may incident was enough proof for MQM to be labeled as a terrorist organisation …more
over what provoke President Musheref for taking it personaly and banning live coverage while taking
no action against MQM terrorists.u say arent police and army and government real muslims….for that i
recommend u to reaad Dr ayeesha Sideeqis book “milatary INC”.i my self got just its 1 or 2 pages from the www and have to read in full
cuz its banned in pakistan…u have to get it from uk .
**********************************************
((Nauman))
i have still not read any document by both these brothers or any other maulana in Pakistan
which really outlines their concept of shariat
(Dark Cloud)
Do u live on Earth or Mars.You seem to say that the shariat version of lal masjid doesnt mach with ur
version of shariyat.what does ur verion say ? …and u layed an alligation on me that i
was misquoting the holy scripture….i think u are fed up of ur own life ..! i quote ur statement here
noman=:”I will refer to you surat infal ayat 60 this ayat defines the preparations for jihad without
these preparations no jihad is valid”
(Darkcloud):: Now ill quote surah “Al-Anfal(The spoils of war)8:60 “Against them make ready your strength
to the utmost of your power ,including steeds of war,to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies,
Of Allah and your enemies,and others besides,whom you may not know ,but whom Allah does know.Whatever
u spend in the cause of Allah ,shall be repaid to you,and you shall not be treated unjustly.
tell me brother noman in the battle of bader how many muslims were up against how many idol worshipers.
313 against 1000 plus.is this ratio by any means comparable.plus the muslims were poorly equiped
and had few horses as compared to fully equiped idol worshipers of mekkah.so please explain this misquotation of Holy verse
in the light of battle of bader.
you cant win war with Max Power of weapons….holy quran and history teach us that power
of eeman and determination can over come any other power.
Americans droped atom bomb over hiroshima and nagaskae and whole japanise nation bowed down to them
but they underestimated muslims …americans used 60000 ton uranium and continuing to use more in iraq
along with white phosphorus the latest verion of napalm on suni areas of iraq.(offical records and also quoted by Dr shahid masood).
A few examples to enlighten u…
1.the result of battle of badder.
2.Americas defeat in vietnam even using na-palm(Earlier used as white phosporus).
3.Iraq another vietnam for amrica and allied forces(Historical Remark by Seddam Hussain).
4.Defeat of russia in afganistan …
5.Afganistan Genisis Of the last crusade..heavily equiped evil forces of the world
against poorly equiped taliban.
these are just few examples of Pheroh defeated at the hands of Moses PBUH again and again.
***********************************************
((Nauman))
1.ur understanding of Holy quran seems to be null i am affraid so
2.dont be a hypocrite brother nauman!
3.Mr Nauman are u running in a high fever ?
4.u and people like u never use ur heads
5.so try to be a litrate and modest muslim
(Dark Cloud)
any just and unbiased person who summarizes ur post can easily make out that these
all five points about u are pure as honey.
***********************************************
((Nauman Quoted))
Miss ayesha ..u ask for proofs i think u should wipe ur Face and brush ur teeth
before even propagating ur bogus and ill Researched trash.u ask for “islamic logic
yet i ask u have u ever Read quran beside the surahs of chapter 30 with translation.
(Dark Cloud)
yes ….and i forgot one thing more …she needs holy water as well to purify her heart and soul..
just read her mails ….they are full of lies …false alligations and yes … what kind of muslim does she call her
self after watching a shameful and full of propaganda movie against islam.(even the clips that GEO TV ran about the film are very shameful to watch).
***********************************************
((By Nauman))
2. i think its enough food for u to digest for couple of eons .
(Dark Cloud)
May be i was right about her but wrong about u cuz u seem to have the stomach of president bush.
***********************************************
By nauman on Aug 6, 2007 ..[i do know that it is a fashion now a days to criticize the
army but many army men in 65 n 71 gave their lives for a righteous
cause]
(Dark Cloud)
what righteous cause ? during 65 and 71 …was india attacking a country that had shariiah law..?
their incompetency made east-pakistan lost for ever.
Gr yahya Khan humiliated pakistan in the eyes of the world.that chronic drinker couldnt controle it in international general essambly and
lubricated the floor in the centre of general essambly hall.tell me how many generals,
colonals, captains and majors got their court-martials after their surrender in east pakistan to indian forces.
they welcomed indian low raking officers on red carpet …indian low ranking officers tore medals and stripes
off of our army high ranking officers and gave them utter humiliation.we gained nothing in 65 or 70 but lost
kashmir and east pakistan along with 60 thousand troops surrendered and a major peace of land was occupied by indian forces
which was returned back to us .
***********************************************
(nauman)
By saadia Habib on Aug 13, 2007 | Reply
“information main nay b akhri din Ume Hassan kay sath he serrender kea tha.
(Dark Cloud)
she is not familiar with the term “surrender” being used by the government and media negatively because during the first
2 days of the lal shrine siege… no tv channel used the word surrender and many analyists condemned the way
troops and scurityforces treated students comming out of masjid.They were treated EXACTLY like guntana-mo bay prisoners.
Besides…. Maulana sahab made it clear on tv that he will never surrender cuz he and his people
never committed any crime.the point of surrender comes if he had committed any crime and asking for
shariiyah law implimentation is not a crime.it is but revision of 14 points in the constitution of pakistan and a just demmand.
i ask u a question brother noman that which court gave a verdict to Gr Musharaf to take arrmed action against lal masjid people?
but it is only possible when their is martial law in effect isnt it ?
***********************************************
(nauman)
( the post to which you are reffering to wasnt even addressed to you.
it was addressed to haq and i think u answered to clear your point or as haq did not
replythe same thing i didayesha did not reply ur post so i did it)
(Dark Cloud)
As i interrupted sister aysha ..it was her call to ask me why i did what i did…but who asked u to advocate..
but beside that …werent u already interrupting brother Haq…and he wrote many many logical points that made ur lieing illogical arrguments meaning less..and to none
of them u answered properly and to the point….i face many people like u every day in islamic chat rooms …many jews and christians come
to attack islam and most of them are like u ….cuz when brothers like Haq kill their precious time and give u logical
arrguments u make fun of their good intentions and good will.
************************************************
(nauman)
1. why cda was sleeping while encroachment by jamia hafza was going on.
2. why were these encroachers (govt servants) khatteb/naib khatib not punished for this illegal act.
3. why ghazi rasheed was let of an year ago in an illegal arms case.if he was innocent the other party should be punished.
4.why there were weapons even 15 licensed or not inside the mosque?
5.how were our agencies unaware about the buildup to this event.
6. what was the role of wafaq ul madaris in this.
7.if there was a deal what were the actual contents n who were the negotiaters.
(Dark Cloud)
points #1 and #2 ….ur short-term memory is continuously making problems for u dear brother no place was illegaly occupied.
for starters …the place was owned by no body …maulana sab submited an application along with proper ammount to CDA
to get the place legaly.he fullfilled all requirements.but national book foundation intrrupted later on and demmanded
that it should be given to them not to maulana sab.but maulana sab wasnt demanding the place for his personal use
instead he was expanding the place for people of Allah who came there to learn and read the divine revilation.
u decide ur selves which one was serving the lord better Jamia Hafza (RA) or children library.
Holy Quran is the best teacher for childern as well as for the grown-ups.Why Did CDA neglect purposefully the first lawful candidate
and prefered national book foundtion.because they were already on an aggenda to clear islamabad of masjids and madrissas.
this all started by tony blairs visit to faisal masjid where salatul-asser was delayed and and azan was banned.
all people who came there to offer salatul-asser were dispersed by security guards.they had to offer their prayer
out side the masjid in missrable condition.
about ur point #3 ;first thing suppose i am president of pakistan and i call u (nauman) a drug smuggler and i never let u
even atleast present ur case …can u ever call that fair justice…? fortunatly i heard his say on this alligation by the government
and he said that he had a car in his possession and a government employee barrowed car from him and tricked him by putting weapons in it .
before u laugh take a look at ur trusty government and its actions against Chaudary Iftekhar.also review the verdict of the court
given against Law minsiter wasee zafer with 1 lack rupee fine was charged against and was given orders to uninstall
spying devices in in the houses of the respected judges ..u know the rest dont u .
For point #4:
Surah Al Baqarah 2-191 and slay them when ever u catch them ,and turn them out from where they have turned u out ;
For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter;But fight them not At the sacred masjid,unless they (first)
Fight u there ;But if they fight u ,slay them (at masjid).Such is the reward Of those who suppress faith.
the surah clearly states that u can keep arms and ammunition in a masjid for self defence .
besides people can keep arms for self defence where ever they want …and if they live in a madrissa and masjid
where they are responocible for protection of thousands of lives they have to keep arms in case of theft
robery/looting and terrorisim by any group.also government employees like ejazul-haq gave them licensed weapons to protect them selves.
there are 100s of goldsmith and electrnic appliances shops on murree road and they all have thousands of gurads
with ak 47s and pump actions …if they are allowed to guard non living things with their lives
why cant we keep weapons in a masjid or medrissa where there are thousands of lives requiring protection.
besides there is a verse in holy quran that says “during war 1 part should stand at guard while the other offer their prayer ..and when they
have offered their prayer let the parties change places “…lal masjid and jamia hafza were no less than a battle ground for Maulana and his people.
maulana did no drive all those apcs ,cannons and trucks surrounding the lal masjid …who were the aggressors then ..
Point # 5:This can never be possible……as tvs stated ISI head-quarter wasnt far from lal masjid.they were perfactly aware.
Point # 6:Their role was to make it realy easy cheesy for government to take armed action.cuz wafaqul madaris did nothing but rode
in their highly expensive cars here and there.they were no different from MMA. The most effective thing they could have done that could have
saved thousands of civilian and few army lives is to conduct a protest in front of lal masjid froming a human chain (like dheerna).
Point # 7:Maulana Rasheed shaheed made it clear in an interview conducted by khursheed ali khan of ONE tv channel that government made an
offer to Maulana Aziz Ghazee that they will clear all those cases alleged on him and his people …maulana replied that he refused
the offer and said put my personal issues aside …and first talk about nifazee shariiyah….” (curtsy One TV Khursheed ali khan)
now one can easliy point it out that a guilty person will most certainly opt for the offer by government but maulana didnt do that..
cuz he new that all false alligations can be dealt with later and they should press on the real issue.O My Lord i Pray to u to give
these people the ability to conceive and comprehend the truth.
*************************************************
((nauman))
A la maudodi is not agreed to by many other sects.which brand of shariat would be the
over riding one .this question remains unanswered.i challenge all maulanas to produce a
comprehensive legal document based on Quran n hadis n get it approved from a representative
board of scholars from all sects.
(Dark Cloud)
Surah Al-Imran(The Family Of Imran) 3:64 “Say: “O People of the book!come to common terms as between us and you:
that we worship non but Allah;That we associate no partners with him;that we erect not,from among ourselves,
Lords and patrons Other than Allah.”if they turn back,say you:Bear Witness that we (at least) are muslims
(bowing to Allahs will).”
the word “people of the book”refers to christians , jews and muslims as well ….as all muslims
received divine revilation from lord almighty GOD so by all means they as well are also people of the book.
many among muslims all over the world are hypocrates and when message of holy quran comes to them they
knowingly refuse it e.g banning of dealing in ribbah commanded by holy quran but many muslim governments deal with ribah etc.
so the last part of ayah tells us that muslims can give shahadah infront of hypocrate muslims that real muslims are those
who submit their will to ALLAH.
having said that if u find a point in maulana maudoodis research which is common in other sects and does not produce conflict with
Quran and sunnah …..u can easily accept on the other hand if u find a point which is against quran and sunnah u can easily throw it away.
its realy that simple.If u think its not then think what ever u want to but islam will over come all religions .its destined to because its the ayah of holy quran.
************************************************
(Nauman)
I will refer to you surat infal ayat 60 this ayat defines the preparations for jihad without
these preparations no jihad is valid
The above referred ayats in no way intend to make ppl gather a lot of weapons n start jihad
against n Islamic govt
(Dark Cloud)
Surah Al Baqarah
2-191 and slay them when ever u catch them ,and turn them out from where they have turned u out ;
For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter;But fight them not At the sacred masjid,unless they (first)
Fight u there ;But if they fight u ,slay them (at masjid).Such is the reward Of those who suppress faith.
111:::if the government is so islamic then why doesnt it ban ribah (intrust) totaly.
Holy Quran”Allah and His Rasool rage war against the one who deals in ribah (give and take of intrust)”
222:::why doesnt islamic government of pakistan shut down heera mandee and other places like that?
333:::why doesnt islamic government of pakistan close down ties with british government for giving Salman rushdie the sir name.
etc
first digest this ok brother noman
************************************************
(nauman)
12th may incident is under judicial inquiry.the verdict shd come out n the guilty
punished but the criminal activities of some one do not justify another criminal activity
(Dark Cloud)
why didnt Gr musharaf run a judicial inquiry over lal masjid 6 moths before….i give u my word that
12th may culprits will never be punished cuz they are right hand of the government i.e MQM
and they are aided by international oragnisations and have a strong hold in karachi.
a bloody siege by army could remove such filth but that will never happen in a million years.
ur last statement has made a curse on u from Allah…because u marked shuhada as criminals.
Shuhada of lal masjid told us how the incident of kurbala happend and how the shuhada of kurbala
were butchered and martyrd.the way lal masjid was surrounded and the water supply was cut off ..
while government knew there were women and children and feebles inside the masjid.But they did not feal
Pitty on them.U Exaggerated Mr Haqs statement about presidents mother.what he wanted to say is that
some people learn their lesson when Allah subhanwatal puts their own family or them selves to trail.
pheroh never understood the massage from Moses PBUH delivered by Allah subhana watalah ..he neglected it
deliberately even saw the miracle of spliting of sea in half but his mind was foged with pride and greed
and he met his doom in the sea …
************************************************
(by nauman)
just consider if some one abducts your sister takes her to a mosque presents her before the
media n alleges that she is involved in immoral activities what izzat would a shareef
aurat/family then havethe women even if returned without physical injury would never be able
to show her face anywhere.kia kissi bhi aurat ko utha kar apnay pas rakhna kisi bhi maksad
k liyay har k as o nakas k liyay jaiz hai???
(BY Dark Cloud)
brother noman dont be so stupid… Did maulana take all women living in nearby houses in to the masjid .
dont be so illogical…if they take ur sister and ur sister is clean u should not worry
because they arent taking them to a governments torture cell but taking them to a Holy Shrine.
A holy place of worship.U are narrow minded as well as non-tollerant ..thats why u cant judge people
like maulana rasheed sahib . while Maulana Considering the facts about antee shameem as prostitute why
would maulana esscort a filth to a holy place…this thought never crossed ur mind now did it…
more over he treated her nicely and women of masjid tried their best to reprogram her mind with good
teachings and right way of islam and then they sent her back with respect not humiliation but media blew it out of proportion
and pressed the issue so har that made it look worse..ill give u the example of junaid jumshaid…he was taken to masjid to great alims
and he listened to their good things and he got himself back on track but what was he before …
considering this fact can cry here as well that people insulted the singer by taking him to masjid .
…yet i ask u again how many brozes she had by stick blows of jamia hafza women
yet they treated her kindly ….because jamia hafza women knew that miltary action is not an option
if u sought to teach some one everlasting manners unless some ones heart and soul is in search of truth …
not like u runnin a one man show.
************************************************
(nauman)
I do not say that auntie shamim or Chinese massage girls were prostitutes bcoz my religion
does not allow me to do so…the word auntie is not a shameful word.it is the equivalent
of khala/massi.however words can be misused
(Dark Cloud)
Brother Noman why are u pretending to be so dumb …tell me how many times in a day and every day does GEO call women antee ..
did they call nilofur bukhtiyar as antee …how many times did they reffer to baa-nazeer-bhutoo
as antee …the closest word they use is baigum but even they never used it for her.
u are just fixated to defent only one prostitue …theer are many banglos in islamabad now
that run this buisness especially in few sectors theer are bars out in the open …wine is
served openly.a few months back there was a issue in the newspapers … our government
cought a container of wine and intoxicants it reffered to all muslim embassys.government
only demmanded that owners of the container just give a written proof that it belonged to them and
they will give it to them but no one complied.in the end they gave it with out any requirments
to muslim embassys …thanks to ur secular state of pakistan.
************************************************
(nauman)
only aziz sahib was dressed in a burqa.did he fear for his life? If so why isnt he dead yet?
Why didnt the govt shoot him dressed in that burqa.the aim of the govt was to kill him as
u alleged he is still alive.
(Dark Cloud)
i never knew u wanted him dead so much.he never feared his life nor he ran away.
Maulana Shah Abdul Aziz MNA told in hamid mirs program infront of eejaz-ul-haq that
” a well reputed personality gave him a call and told him to wear bhurqa …and come out along with other
women in disguise so that they could easily take him away for nigociations with out any one being noticed .”
(Curtsy GEO tv Hamid Mir programm).not even 1ce ijazul haq objected to him…that means he knew that personality as well.
in short maulana abdul aziz was tricked.dont just get fixated to burqa many of our agents go to other
countries for spying disguised as christians and hindus and its justified.
************************************************
(nauman)
.my short term memory tells me that only those khwarig / extremist died who did not surrender.
aziz sahibs actions has caused shame on a decent garb i.e the burqa
(Dark Cloud)
if that is the case then why wasnt it respected by ptv crew and the generals who conducted Maulana aziz sabis
inteview by forcing him to purposefuly wear burqa through out the interview..and why did they put a shiait there
to ask questions to him with huge aggression.suppose if he commited a mistake that doesnt mean u could bombard the
whole madrissa along with red shrine.
************************************************
(nauman)
Weapons.. ghazi first claimed he had 15 rifles etc in the mosque.later he said that he had
enough weapons n ammunnations to survive till a month.on the first day of the op announcements
were made from inside the mosque that suicide bombers are being prepared.all this was telecast
all over the media( u may check).do suicide bombers wear rifles n bullets for bombings or is it
bombs . I dont believe that the claims from lal mosque were false.now dont say tht all tht
is proven against ghazi brothers was tactics by the brothers to mislead kuffar n all the govt
or media says is lies
(Dark Cloud)
i almost agree with the first line but after that u started adding to it…i watched
and listened to his statements about weapons he clearly said aboud some weapons and enough food but less water.
cuz water was cuttoff.the media clearly made it cryatal clear and questioned the government people
that where are the suicide bombers belts cuz there werent any suicide bombings during operation
scilence.also where were those bunkers and underground holes and tunnels cuz both national and international media never found them.
*************************************************
(nauman)
u misread the number of rifles . it was 15 only not 1515 as u mentioned. I believe that the
numer of weapons was much more than 15 coz 15 rifles cannot be used in continuation
(Dark Cloud) recheck ur post u ur self quoted 1515 dont blame me for ur foolish mistakes.and
reguarding 15 rifles can be or cant be used who are u to decide that ..in how many battles have u participated except
for computer shootin games.if 313 can face 1000+ in battle of badder why cant 15 rifles face em all…u are so messed up to think any thing
beside having ditators cerilac with extra lieing vitamins +.
*************************************************
(nauman)
license or no license..use of weapons against fellow muslims/police authorities is not
allowed
(Dark Cloud)
then who are these fellow muslims who obduct and kidnap citizens of pakistan and hand them over to CIA and FBI for
2500 to 3500 US dollors …read the newspapers dated before lal masjid.who allowed
these fellow muslims to kill innoscent children in medrissas in bajoor and vana vazeeristan areas.
and who will take revenge for tthese innoscent lives killed by our beloved miltary soldiers.
*************************************************
(nauman)
if they were not surrendering what were they doing?running for their lives,abandoning so
called jihad?????????
(Dark Cloud) dont use government terminology cuz it wasnt used by tv channels before durranis press confrence.
use ur own barin but u have a problem of short term memory …sop no use.i give u a hint
cuz some times u go brain dead…u use the term surrender when u take the surrenderers weapons
into ur own custody. A reporter asked Gr waheed arshed that if they surrendered them selves
where are their weapons? he repplied ..they left them inside the masjid. how convinient .when u hold a
gun to some bodies head and order him to handsup ….what will he do…?
*************************************************
(nauman)
i believe that every student of lal masjid was a mazloom bcoz they were indoctorinated with
a false belief about islam
(Dark Cloud) Nifaze shariayt is a false belief.look for the 14 points in the constitution of pakistan.
their demmands were just.and u talk about indoctrinated …who was indoctribating and what to president musharef
when he was called in camp david USA where no muslim leader has ever gone to.
*************************************************
((By noman)) (i have never in my post abused/insulted u ever..)
Madam Ayesha ur point keh etnay sary namehram kasay akhathay reh rahay
( again ayesha was not talking to sadia habib so why she answered).
((Dark Cloud))
i proved u wrong because u dont do self analysis .Read ur points i quoted from
ur mails u have proven ur self to be an abuser/backstaber/molester/sadist and a big lier.
***********************************************
((By noman)) (i have never in my post abused/insulted u ever..)
“Ok now i am realy tired of ur sick tricks Brother Noman.yet u show another aspect
of ur personality.”
(Dark Cloud) what made me say that… …your hatred towards the lal masjid people and women of jamia
Hafza (RA) ur continuous opposition to their just cause is very much irritating..the sticks carried by women was not a big issue
neither is the burqa worn by maulana because these things can be dealt with later… do u bombard ,fire shells and throw whiskey P
(white Phosphorus AKA wiskey P term used by americans while they used it in falujah and other parts of iraq in suni areas)
on people just because they demonstrate with sticks or wear burka…a militart action is not the justification.
the real issue is that what was the demand made by the brothers….it was simply nifazee shariyat..
u say what version of sheriyat will u impose ….this is an attack upon the 4 most respected
imams of majority muslim population of pakistan…all 4 imamas said that if any one finds any of
our fetwas or things against Holy Quran and sahih hadeeths …throw that fetwa against the wall…
this is enough proof that there will only be on shariiat according to Quran and sahih hadeeth…
((nauman))
in my entire post I have not insulted you which you did in you post but ofcourse those who
follow islam like u do are allowed to abuse abduct n kill anybody they feel like
(Dark Cloud)
first off tell me who killed who in ur last words……during 6 months of lal shrine senario
how many were killed or wounded by maulana and his students…ur lies start right here
2nd
if u havent insulted me does it give a right to u to insult others if i have said any
thing to sister aysha she has the right to ask me since u do her advocacy then
explain ur motive behind these provocative statements..
000.By nauman to Haq on August 2007..: u r mentally sick n weirdo sick frustrated person like u shd not even be permitted near
womencoz every body else is uncivilzed , illeterate stupid except you whereas its just the opposite](who gave u the authority to insult
modest and Honorable people like Haq .Just because brother Haq differs ur point of view with logic and reason doesnt mean that can spit out what ever u want to .”when truth is heard against false hood
,false hood Perishes and false hood is destined to Perish” Holy Quran )
111.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[Ayesha basically haq is just annoying you..he has nothing to
say](how could u even make a guess about some 1s intentions about others
u just made up ur assumption based upon ur perceptions and ur perceptions could be highly wrong fallowing
that u attacked on Haqs good intentions and character)
222.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[my advice to u is just not respond to his posts](i think she can decide for her self)
333.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[or maybe he is inciting u so](the words “or may be” clearly show ur assuption for Haq
and ur assuption could be highly wrong .have u read the ayah of holy Quran”dont back bite or slander” so u opted to eat ur dead brothers meat)
444.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[Now im telling u his next post wud b comments on this post.
again he wont justify ghazis actions n his shihadat or cause..](are u a fortune teller also u seem to have fixated ur short term memory
for not accepting any evidences in favour of Ghazi brothers u are clearly on one-man-agenda)
555.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[he is mentally sick](shame on you for back biting)
666.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[Ajj tak iss insan nai jo army walon ko galian nikaltay thay , aunty shami ki prostitution etc par khuch nahi kaha]
(How shameful for u to write such a sentence.people like HAQ dont browse internet every day for people like antee shameem)
777.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[I believe ur words kiunkay app nai Allah ka nam liya hai aur agar app ghalat hui tou app roz e qayamat ko sazawar ho gee .
Allah ka nam to ghazi bhi leta tha lekin uski aur harktain questionable thi](O My Lord I never knew this man could be that much retarded
if some one rcites Gods name does that mean he/she is truthful and u should believe more over u are insulting ghazee rasheed sahab not only
by calling his names as if he was inferior to u but also by mocking his loyalty to Allah. you said ur self ” no one knows ons intentions” so how come u know his)
888.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[issi waja sai i believe u n if ur wrong u will b punished](kis wejah sai zara mujha bhi batana mairaa bhai..if she is punished u will be punised
along with her for sure according to ur own statement…u are making mockry out of ur self)
999.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[logic saray inko isi case mai nazar atay hain ghazi k logic ko tou ajj tak yeh explain nahi kar saka
i told you he is sick:)]( what and whose logic do u understand …i never knew u were such a sadist ur self …u gave a smily in the end for what …u slander and laugh in the end…u
ur self are realy sick dear brother)
010.By nauman on Aug 11, 2007 ..[i never said i had first hand knowledge about all this issuenobody has..](u admit ur self that u dont have
first hand knownledge about the issue then how come u hold Maulana Ghazee at fault…2ndly u are totally wrong to say nother has the true picture of senario
again i tell u that u dont have (illlme ghaib) and i dare say no one has beside Allah subhana watala)
011.By NAUMAN on Aug 9, 2007 ..[now by ur lucid explaination on different words n their meanings i hv learnt tht ghazi rasheed can be labelled as MISCREANT , RELIGIOUS EXTREMIST,MINION 2
FOREIGN POWERS WITH DEVIOUS DESIGNS AND OFCOURSE A CRIMINAL](how many times did u label Mr Musheref and others as criminals if not why molana sab…u are so much biased)
012.By nauman on Aug 8, 2007 ..[if musharraf is wrong on many issues he is wrong.he is not wrong coz he doesnt hv a
beard or live in a mosquehe is wrong coz of legal n constitutional issues if proven in COURT OF LAW](if a nonmuslim reads this comment of urs
first he would laugh at muslims mocking muslims 2nd he will most certainly have bad image about muslims with
bearded men and masjids ..people live in masjids during ramazan as well …ur sick saditic pleasure might take u out boundries of islam….pehlaaa tooloo phir bolo
…bawaqoofi aur jahalat mat kero even tariq azeem and ijazul haq several times confessed on tv that u cant dought the neeyas of these brothers cuz they are clean and holy men)
013.By nauman on Aug 8, 2007 ..[ITS BASICALLY A HAMAM OF SAINTS IN WHICH ALL R NAKED](shame on u for even quoting such a sentence…khud beed ikhlaqi kerta ho … dooserroon ko nasihat khud miyan faseehat)
014.By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[I believe ur words kiunkay app nai Allah ka nam liya hai aur agar app ghalat hui tou app roz e qayamat ko sazawar ho gee](before
u claim her to be more than a prophet let me remind u of ur short term memory problem and show u a huge contradiction in ur sisters statements because u believe liers
and never do self analysis)
**************************
By ayesha on Aug 11, 2007:::
i never cared whatever he said
in one of his mail haq sahib accused nelufar bhaktiar for kissing a non muslim..mind u when
lady diana came to pakistan she shook hand with many men including maulana type
( i mean people with beard).secondly nobody saqw nelofar kissing the man directly.it was
in newspapers n it was taken from one angle.in my opinion the man was greeting her n helping
her to come to ground .he was wishing her for her acheivement.if u have ever seen men jumping
from parachutes they are on ground helped by peoplethe difference is its their custom to greet
like tht i.e touching cheeks it was nothing more than that.
i heard her interview on biz plus that how her life n image ruined by ghazi sahibs fatwa.
(Dark Cloud)(can u believe this non-sense…how can u believe her..first off whether she kissed or not
but i saw the pictures on geo tv my self she was ambracing forget about muslim …non muslim men
i ask her and u ..that is it allowed in islam for a muslim woman to even touch body of na-mehram and non muslim
((2ndly she was wearing pants …are pants allowed in islam for women …even men cant wear tight pants in islam sys holy quran surah noor 24:30-31 )
o my god she says “its their custom to greet like thati.e touching cheeks it was nothing more than that”what kind of muslim is she
and what kind of muslim are u nauman for supporting her even she said that.))
(((AANNNND especialy in the last line she is openly supporting neelofur and her act does ur version of shariiat allow this ))).
*******************************
Hindas blasphime continues
By ayesha on Aug 11, 2007
i dont know who gave u this respected name ur name should have been hinda.
MUJKO TOU YEH NAHI SAMJH ATTI K JAMIA HIZA /LAL MASJID MAI AIK SATH ITNAY NAMEHRAM
MARD AUR AURAEIN AKATHAY KESAY REH RAHAY THAY????TAB GHAZI SAHIB KI SHARIAT KIDAR CHALI
GAE THI
n jasmeen mansoor on tv said that when she went to jamia hifza for interview she was
compelled to take parda..n the people attitude over there was obnoxious.she is of biz plus
(Dark Cloud) Shame on u to slander and dought upon shaheed brothers and sisters…
u missed the doccumantry of ragee umar a respected reporter of al jazeerah on friday”he was allowed into the complex and he visited
and filmed the women section he went to the library then to the canteen then to small clinic and
inspected medicine. u can watch the video there was no male alloed in that area except the journalist and his camera man..they
made it clear to the world that they were not narrow minded “. aljazeera journalist made an astonishing remark
“when i saw it from out side it was very worring site to see women in such a hasty situation but i am realy surrprised to see how female
students are working so calmly inside the complex…there is no rushing to be seen every where its a totaly different picture inside”
u can go to aljazeera site and request the doccumantry video.
******************************
By ayesha on Aug 6, 2007
khuda kay liyay movie mai there is a dialogue haram ka paisa jaib mai rakh kar halal gosht ki dukan dhondna
(Dark Cloud) Ur good GEO tv ran the clip of this movie ….there were shameful and immoral immodest
scenes on that clip…especially a woman runs towards the man and she is holding a bed sheet
wraped arround her and she was holding it tight with her hand.showing that if she loses it she isnt wearing any clothes underneath.
u get the picture…how in the hell could u watch these movies. forget an islamic iimage.
u people are giving a bad name to islam.plus casting of film actors who are sons and daughters of
prostitues …just how could u give them a chance to perform and tell us how should we feal towards islam.
a full time propaganda to promote false hood about islam.they and u are doing a favour to danish news paper editor.
*****************************
By ayesha on Aug 6, 2007
shariat cannot be implemented thats clear..pakistani nation is in a habbit of fussing around.
shariat is not anyones property that he/she likes to implement in accordance with his wishes
(dark Cloud) At-Tawbah (The Repentance)
9:33 “It is he who has sent his massanger with guidance and religion of truth,
to proclaim it over all religions,even though the pagans may detest (it).”
Then Who the heck are to say that shariiyah cant be implemented.Allah him self promises that
his deen will become master of all religions and WIKLL over come all.and for ur kind information
people so called muslims who celebrate their birth days should know that birth day celebration was and is a pagan practice.
muslims at all costs most certainly can not celebrate an event if its a practice of another religion.its a religious practice of the pagans.
o yeah she confessed it her self that she and people like her dont want shariiah in paksiatn nor any where..
if i am wrong then what are u ur self doing to implement the right shariah in the light of Holy Quran and Sahih hadeeth.
if unfortunatly becomes prime minister of pakistan i shall kill my hopes and dreams for implimentation of shariyah laws
cuz acording to her my wishes cant come true ever and she isnt gona do any thing about it .so Allah nauuzzz billah
might be wrong to say that islam will over come all religions in the end according to miss aysha.ill quote u a
verse of Holy Quran …and at the same time i morn at u that why havent u read it.
*****************************
TV channel Buisness PLUS
i know buisness plus people very well …any unbiased person can easily make it out of their talks
that they are full time government supporters and have anti islamic minds….mostly closer to be secular.
especially their program mubashir-dot-com is full time anti islamic propaganda ….the host mubashir misquotes quranic ayas
and most oftenly he reads half ayas not full …..by commiting such acts he claims him self to be brother of aroon shuri (india).
**************************
(Nauman)
in Pakistan conditions are not ideal.we have to work towards such a situation through elections
n other lawful meansnobody can be allowed to take law in their own hands
(dark Cloud) u having said that i ask u it has been more than 60 years and be have been continuously moving towards making it better
but its still nill while india got its freedom a year later and they are more than 200 years ahead of us ….incidents like baberi masjid and
gujrat muslim massacre take place there as well and they have population problem as well still they got them selves better than us …not even 1ce miltary
took over.and there system of putting their priministers and presidents to trial is hell lot better and effetive
can u say that hindus are better than muslims shame on u to even talk about elections …we all know they never were fair and never will be under these repeating faces.
**************************
(Nauman)
some bad things do happen but we should not lose hope ion Pakistan if we are a part of it.
(dark Cloud) How Foolish ….u call it just some bad things …east pakistan was just some bad thing happened right…
yes my dear brother 60 years and counting for hopes…yet innoscent Ghazis are martyrd.
**************************
Dark cloud
walaikumsalam
On one hand u alleged that im aggressive against the unislamic shaheeds of the lal mosque n yet you use words against me and others supporting my view point such as relating us to jews n Christians , telling us to have a bath in holy water( app Indian movies kam dekha karein, islam mai ganga jamna ka tassawar nahi) ab e zam zam sai baptisma shaid ghazi sahib k maslik mai jaiz hai , as far as my not answering haq sahibs “logical questions please read the post again.its the other way round when ppl run out of answers they run away. if haq talks about murdering n killing a fellow muslim 80 yr old defenseless woman its certainly Islamic as per your doctrinebut my prophet (p.b.u.h) was against killing innocent people especially women and children.
In your next post u will justify killing of women n children if they r Christian jews hindus or muslims opposed to your point of view.
U also have avoided and not answered my question.u still have not told me about an authentic manuscript by ghazee brothers telling us the details of shariat laws and their implementation. Moreover I hv still not come across any document giving ghazi brothers the stature of muftis representing all islam or even of all muslim sects in Pakistan.your post belies a very confused mindset.
1. U wrote((Dark Cloud))
who in the heavons name told u that MMA and related parties are the ideal or examplery muslims.
why did u even quote them as representators of islam by any means.instead they are the pure traitors
and zalims the real culprits and full time Musheref supporters..they are among the deaf the dumb and the
blind.total hypocrates and enemies of islam.they could have washed their sins if they just protested
in front of the masjid during the operation scilence by creating human chain and could have saved thousands
innoscent lives.But instead they went to UK to conduct APC to secure their uncertain future for $$$ national treasure hunt.
On the other hand u take the word of an mma mna to prove your point as follows children were awarded with particles of tasbeeh penetrated into their innoscent eyes and faces..
(Curtsy Maulana Shah Abdul Aziz [MNA] serhed stating facts in hamid meers progarm on GEO).
Either these alims including shah abdul aziz are deaf dumb, hypocrats, zalim and not exemplary muslims as u call them or “ they are actually always stating facts please decide if you defending principles or personalities.
U reffered to a hadis to which I agree.basically u have stated my point.kalma e haq kehna ain islam hai prophet ( p.b.u.h) also stated the same.where did he state that kalma haq includes abduction,tohmat/slander,killing soldiers of the state,burning public property n spreading fasad in the society.believe me the prophet(p.b.u.h) would have looked down upon such actions.
I reffered to surat infal ayat 60 and I again maintain that the prophet (p.b.u.h) in ghazwa badar gave to us the tafseer of that ayat.would u disagree that at that moment the 313 muslims and their small resources were infact the maximum they could muster at that time.Allah said n I quote “ aur tiyar rakho apni sari quwatyeh muslims ki sari quwat hi thi.if it had not been the case then muslims would not have gone to war infact throughout the period of muslim dominance muslim rulers went to war with the maximum resources, when muslim forgot the quran they started to decline .
Ghazi sahib did not have the entire muslim community behind him.thats exactly why I said a more representative call for shariat could have been initiated by elected representatives.
Auntie shamimI would again stress that we should decide in the light of quran n sunnat.please give me one example from life of holy prophet(p.b.u.h) in which he abducted (nowzubillah) a woman muslim or otherwise n kept her at masjid e nabwi.any one example if proved in the books of saheeh hadith would make it easier for me to understand.islam teaches us to respect women not to slander them.Allah does not like propogation of evil/sins .( burai ko chupanay ka hukm hai na k ishtihar bananay ka)
I dare say by abducting auntie shamim the Chinese n policemen ghazi sahib perform an act which was against sunnat.as far as geo or any other tv channels use of the word aunties is concerned answer my following question
1.should we follow quran n sunnat or geo?
2.if geo propgates against quran n sunnat would it be correct for us to do the same?
3.shariat requires 4 witnesses in a court of law not on tv.
4.many channels including geo do not call ghazi brothers as maulana. They also have caught him lying on tv( about the presence of children etc )— decide urself
when u find a supportive argument from geo or mma u quote them otherwise u are against geo n entire media plus political molvis..who is more confused, running a high fever, me or you?????????????????????????
These so called jihadis faught americas war in Afghanistan.they fought the same in iraq n iran and they are still doing it in Pakistan n Afghanistan.honestly dont u believe that the greatest beneficiary of nifak bain ul muslameen would be America itself.i ask u to justify suicide bombers killing innocent muslims all over Pakistan and iraq.
U alleged that I support govt , please read my post more carefully. I do not justify the wrong acts of the govt. collateral damage is not permitted in islam therefore death of innocent ppl at the hands of govt forces if any is condemned. U refer to waziristan/fata area.the govt operation there does raise many doubts about its rationale but being a law abiding citizen I do know tht fata is a bed of lawlessness.a stolen car from mjuree rd will be found in fata.any criminal can run away n find refuge there. When the govt asked the militants to lay down their weapons as per our laws they should have.there is no justification of foreigners living in fata as guests of the locals.i ask u y dont these arab , chechin,uzbic,tajik n afghans go to their own countries n spread their venom there.Pakistan ko ganda kiun kartay hain. Sari umar America sai paisay lai kar muslims ko martay rahay ab bhi tyehi kar rahay hain.maybe they take money from raw n mossad as well
.65 or 71 wars were imp for Pakistan but u r still confused tht weather u r a pakistani or not.in 65 to u the cause was not riteous because religious bigots like u are n were against Pakistan from 1947. u are traitors living in our country .if u dont like it here please do not destroy it.migrate!!!!!!!!!!!!!moreover 71 was not a military disaster only.it was a national failure and I accuse ppl like u to be responsible, u never considered Bengalis equal citizens of Pakistan.yhis inequality caused Bangladesh.but how did we lose it.isnt it a muslim country with more muslims than us but u consider them lesser muslims as well (maybe).
Sadia habib. I agree with you wen u say that sadia habib did not know the meaning of the word surrender , exactly my point.she did not anything.therefore how can u hope from me to believe someone who knows nothing and aspires to change society.neem hakeem khatra e jan..similarly your point regarding president is genuine but I dare ask which court gave ghazi permission for his criminal activities????///jamia al azhar?
1.. why cda was sleeping while encroachment by jamia hafza was going on.
2. why were these encroachers (govt servants) khatteb/naib khatib not punished for this illegal act.
Dont lie!!!!!!!!!!1the place on which jamia hifza was being built had been awarded to national book foundation years ago.ahmad faraz the then chairman is still crying hoarse over it for arguments sake even if I agree with your point does this justify further construction just because the land was vacant.was ghazi Rashid above the law?was he permitted to do what he wants when he wants n how he wants it? All who disagree can be conveniently called Christians n jews hahahaha.
Library has no use as far as you are concerned.i have got the concept of shariat of all ghazi supporters.parhai likhai band , no doctors, no engineers.lets produce khateebs at a massive scale to spell doom for any society by spreading hate n violence .
If azan was not allowed in faisal mosque it is a crime but what of the jumma prayers not allowed by ghaze supporters in lal masjidwow apki kia hi bat hai!!!!!!!!!
3.why ghazi rasheed was let of an year ago in an illegal arms case.if he was innocent the other party should be punished.
Ur answer is pure hypothesis.lets talk facts. After this incident ghazi rasheed wrote an undertaking signed by him n held with the ministry of interior n aukaf, that he would not do such things againthis was guaranteed n signed by ijaz ul haq n the maddrissa board etc.the same has already been shown on tv.as far as the cj/nawaz sharif case is concerned the govt was wrong as proven.what does this has to do with ghazi however this does show that we have an independent judiciary to which gghazi sahib conveniently never go .my point has always been the rule of law for all.
4.why there were weapons even 15 licensed or not inside the mosque?
U answered with the following ayat Surah Al Baqarah 2-191 and slay them when ever u catch them ,and turn them out from where they have turned u out ;
For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter;But fight them not At the sacred masjid,unless they (first)
Fight u there ;But if they fight u ,slay them (at masjid).Such is the reward Of those who suppress faith.
I totally agree but as I interpreted this relates to ghazi brothers n the hifzians and the govt maybe acted on this ayat and did the operation to protect islam n the mosque from ppl whose actions were criminal un Islamic n highly questionable..moreover ghazi sahib actions of keeping weapons illegally attacking police abducting females did spread tumult n his actions were indeed oppressive.infact this criminal behaviour was started by ghazi n his supporters by challenging the govt again n again and snatching weapons from police who knows if the operation had not occurred how many innocent muslims would they have killed because they were calling for suicide bombings against muslims .
Murre rd k jewlers rizk I hilal kamatay hain they observe the law n hire legal security personal.y didnt ghazi sahib takes such help.it would have been entirely legal n less costly as one rifle cost 50,000 approx.a security guards only 5000 per month.but he chose to commit khiyanat in zakat money n purchase weapons and ammunition to protect him from muslims living around him.because his islam was under threat from the actual muslims themselves .ullema i-soo sai Allah bichayay.
Point # 5:& 6This can never be possibleas tvs stated ISI head-quarter wasnt far from lal masjid.they were perfactly aware.
We finally are in agreement.this fact merits an inquiry and the sacking of the isi chief with the chief of ib n fia etc. the role of political molvis should also be discussed.
7.if there was a deal what were the actual contents n who were the negotiaters.
U reffered to an interview on tv one.i refer u to to what I heard on geo,ary1 and on aljazeera etc.after maulana aziz ran away in a burqa and umme hassan also surrendered the call for shariat wat given up.ghazi sahib said n I quote “ mujhay aur meri walida ko sakoon ki zindgi guzarnay k liyay gaon bhaij dia jayay at tht time this great mujahid had sunk his call for shariat in nala lai n his only demand was for safe passage for him n his companions.for arguments sake even if ur point is correct then y did so maulana aziz give up n run wearing a burqa.similarly umme hassan the great abductress also chose against shariat.wah kia hi jazba hai.
At the end u again justified the abduction of auntee shamim n said tht ghazi only abducted her y not anybody else. Allah ka shukar hai tht the govt acted otherwise he might have abducted a lot more in the name of islam.i again say please quote an incident in which ther prophet (p.b.u.h) abducted any female for teaching purposes.ghazis brand of islam was against quran n sunnat or atleast his actions were.
As I already said ullema have not been able to define a comprehensive shariat even the definition of ribba is not all encompassing.lets hear from you about the book of shariat agreed upon by all sects and its application vis a vis routine day to day functioning.may Allah give u light.
dark cloud
as far as your second post. i didnt wan t anybody dead a little sense could have avoided this blood shed. as for the imp personality his nut is not publicate maybe it was american embassodar to whom maulana wanted to go for guidance wearing burqa.
_______________
the above episode was misused by the govt i agree(burqa) but who provided the fuel????????
____________
the statements made by govt functionaries shd be questioned but they do not justify ghazi sahib’s criminal behaviour.suicide bombing was being propogated by ghazi rite frm the start of the operation.u used the word lal shrine , some have equated it as kaba ki beti i hope ur not amongst shrine worshippers.
Dark Cloud) recheck ur post u ur self quoted 1515 dont blame me for ur foolish mistakes.and
4 why were there weapons 1,5,15 or any number inside the mosque.?? cant u c the coma in between n read “any number”….it was an examople not exact figure.
i havnt participated in any battle but common sense which seems un common in u is an indicator……..
_____________________-
in wazeer istan the army is fighting an enemy who hides in fights.suicide bombings is the best attack for them. they take money from cia raw n mossads n target pak army.the americans comitted a crime in bajor the govt by acknowledging it did the same. both shd be taken to task in a court of law.
_____________________
no army personal went inside the mosque to make umme hassan or other students to surrender.they came out themselves . to my mind the mosque was under control a small group numbering 70/80 or more with weapons etc to fight.
___________________________
nifaz i shariat is not a false belief but the way in which ghazi sahib went about it was absolutely unislamic.he just wanted to cover his crimes.his demands changed by the month later by the day, n lastly by the minute.he was not even a man of his words.
________________________________
when truth is heard against false hood
,false hood Perishes and false hood is destined to Perish Holy Quran .
i agree truth will stand the tests of time n ppl will answer for their sins in their hereafter.
as far as the 4 aaimas are concerned i did not insult them at all but my question is tht wwho will decide whom to follow me u or ghazi rasheed or maybe none at all.y do u want to snuff out all tolerance from islam .i for one do not want to live in a fascist unislamic state built in the name of shariat.
__________________
if u havent insulted me does it give a right to u to insult others if i have said any
thing to sister aysha she has the right to ask me since u do her advocacy then
explain ur motive behind these provocative statements..
y u interfered in sadia habib matter.i do not advocate anyone but im against ghazi.
____________________
as far as ayesha’s incident is concerned ur rite we may choose to believe none of them as everthing needs to be proven.the same incident happened to my cousin sister .as its not in papers n was not reported therefore i will not stress but it did happen.
_______________
bawaqoofi aur jahalat mat kero even tariq azeem and ijazul haq several times confessed on tv that u cant dought the neeyas of these brothers cuz they are clean and holy men)
kabhi ijaz ul haq acha hai aur kabhi burra.well ur very confused.
____________________________
khuda kai liyay_____________
app tohmat laganay mai sab sai agay hain. apkay hathon sai kisi aurat ki izat mehfooz nahi coz ur a prevert.just answer me this thing can’t the sons n daughters of prostitutes be good men or women.emaan ali in the film is daughter of abid ali n i think he never married a prostitute.
______________________________
as far as haq being weird n sick that he is. i should include u in the same category……..
__________________________
u put a spin on everything.aitikaf is a holy duty n must be performed by all who can.dont take things out of context.-
__________________________
to sum up i would just add read the quran n try to understand the essence of our religion.
By Dark Cloud on Aug 17, 2007 | Reply
“””guarding ur 2nd question.first off try to read holy quran and with translation before u die cuz u might get some answers.
u asked “ghazi rasheed was doing jihad why aziz sahib was running away in a burqa??
if it was on some govt high ups request I dare ask was it shariat compliant,
doesnt islam prohibit men from wearing women clothes (an enemy would think exactly like that with out considering the possibilities
or at least try to continuously advocate against the defender on the other hand a friend will give it some thoughts)
the answer to ur alligation is that have u read the ayah in Holy quran which says that u can have the meat of a pig ie the unlawful becomes lawful
when u have to save ur life”””
By Dark Cloud on Aug 24, 2007 | Reply
************************************************
(nauman)
only aziz sahib was dressed in a burqa.did he fear for his life? If so why isnt he dead yet?
Why didnt the govt shoot him dressed in that burqa.the aim of the govt was to kill him as
u alleged he is still alive.
(Dark Cloud)
i never knew u wanted him dead so much.he never feared his life nor he ran away.
Maulana Shah Abdul Aziz MNA told in hamid mirs program infront of eejaz-ul-haq that
a well reputed personality gave him a call and told him to wear bhurqa and come out along with other
women in disguise so that they could easily take him away for nigociations with out any one being noticed .
(Curtsy GEO tv Hamid Mir programm).not even 1ce ijazul haq objected to himthat means he knew that personality as well.
in short maulana abdul aziz was tricked.dont just get fixated to burqa many of our agents go to other
countries for spying disguised as christians and hindus and its justified.
1.he himself said he ran becoz he was saving his life n now putting the blame on me that i want him dead.
2.nobody came inside the mosque to help him in wearing burqa.he could have denied the idea.even if somebody requested it.
3.when they were demanding for safe passage, court intrervention ,many other things they should have demanded n called that person with whom they wanted to negotiate.
4.he is not an agent or a spy of pakistan.
what a pity and shame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
______________________________________
(Dark Cloud)
if that is the case then why wasnt it respected by ptv crew and the generals who conducted Maulana aziz sabis
inteview by forcing him to purposefuly wear burqa through out the interview..and why did they put a shiait there
to ask questions to him with huge aggression.suppose if he commited a mistake that doesnt mean u could bombard the
whole madrissa along with red shrine.
1.nobody told them to remain inside.they were given enough opportunity n time to surrender like others
___________________________________
if u havent insulted me does it give a right to u to insult others if i have said any
thing to sister aysha she has the right to ask me since u do her advocacy then
explain ur motive behind these provocative statements..
then why were u jumping if i asked a simple question from sadia habin…if she had any problem she could have asked me…secondly i did not object whatever u said to ayesha in the post which u r reffering to…i just gave my own view point to this issue….everyone on this blog do the same…if u were chatting/talking to ayesha or any specific person then u can do it via emails.
_____________________________
By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[Ayesha basically haq is just annoying you..he has nothing to
say](how could u even make a guess about some 1s intentions about others
u just made up ur assumption based upon ur perceptions and ur perceptions could be highly wrong fallowing
that u attacked on Haqs good intentions and character)
By nauman to Haq on August 2007..: u r mentally sick n weirdo sick frustrated person like u shd not even be permitted near
womencoz every body else is uncivilzed , illeterate stupid except you whereas its just the opposite](who gave u the authority to insult
modest and Honorable people like Haq)
lolz…………what u do dark cloud???????????who can imagine an 80 yr old woman death n express it on internet is sick in my opinion…y objected that i wanted abdul aziz to be dead where as i never said so but u defend his words ……….what a hypocracy!!!!!!!! u yourself insult others so u dont hv the right to ask what others write in their post……..u have the write to call anyone prostitute/jew /christian n then u expact tht ur opinion shd be highly appreciated nn for your words which u said to me u have an explaination i.e
2. i think its enough food for u to digest for couple of eons .
(Dark Cloud)
May be i was right about her but wrong about u cuz u seem to have the stomach of president bush.
((Nauman Quoted))
Miss ayesha ..u ask for proofs i think u should wipe ur Face and brush ur teeth
before even propagating ur bogus and ill Researched trash.u ask for “islamic logic
yet i ask u have u ever Read quran beside the surahs of chapter 30 with translation.
(Dark Cloud)
yes .and i forgot one thing more she needs holy water as well to purify her heart and soul..
just read her mails .they are full of lies false alligations and yes what kind of muslim does she call her
self after watching a shameful and full of propaganda movie against islam.(even the clips that GEO TV ran about the film are very shameful to watch).
((Nauman))
1.ur understanding of Holy quran seems to be null i am affraid so
2.dont be a hypocrite brother nauman!
3.Mr Nauman are u running in a high fever ?
4.u and people like u never use ur heads
5.so try to be a litrate and modest muslim
(Dark Cloud)
any just and unbiased person who summarizes ur post can easily make out that these
all five points about u are pure as honey.
i have never in my post addressed u as a foolish/retarded but u do n read above…….whatever u have pinpointed in my posts made to haq u shd hv first inspected your own behaviour n language……
__________________________________
By nauman on Aug 10, 2007 ..[he is mentally sick](shame on you for back biting)
i think this blog is readable by everybody n haq has an access to it……
________________________________________
ajj tak baki k molvis tou ghazi k actions ko saheeh nahi mantay . pak mai sirf ghazi hi muslim/molvi nahi hai…..they do not support him……..now u will say they r not exemplary muslims!!!!!!!!!! what a joke………
u talk about bad politicians/army officers/n other immoral activities in pak ….i can also give u examples of molvis involved in rape n filthy activities but the action of one person does not make islam/molvis bad as a whole…..ur ghazi sahib is also one example indulged in criminal activities but inshallah there are n will be gud maulanas still present in pakistan……because of these ghazi brothers or some other bad molvis i will not label maulanas as bad ppl…………..ghazi sahib k tou kai jhoot tv walon nai pakray hain…..aik so called jihad karnay wala, islam ka almbardar , mosque mai baith kar jhoot bolain to baki logon ko app kia question karain……..( im not defending govt).
__________________________
i will again say lets hear from you about the book of shariat agreed upon by all sects and its application vis a vis routine day to day functioning.may Allah give u light.
Nauman
You have many valid points but refrain from personal comments because one should act with dignity in response to any poor remarks/statements from people at the wrong end even when they are insulting and provocative. Keechur mein pathar painkhnay kaa kia faaida.
Though, the topic here is about Ghazi Sahib: Halak or Shaheed but just to highlight, i have noted one thing from the statements posted by Ghazi Sahib’s supporters that due to the injustices in our society in the last so many decades, many people have lost hope. Their grievences have led them being played in the hands of many cunning people who use close-to-our-heart subjects like religion, politics or slogans of roti, kupra, makaan in the way they want to. Unluckily, we are so much in the habit of using the eyes and minds of other people to think and follow our self made leaders blindly that we dont bother finding the truth. Ignorance is a greater social evil that being an illetrate.
One can only hope that good sense should prevail and poeple start understanding what is good and bad for us as a Muslim nation.
Guys leave this fight, evey body has to die you and me also, just wait for it, and we all will see our end, and one more thing wat ever v are saying we have to answer for every single word, so i think we should think before speaking, yeh na ho keh kal sari duniya kay samnay jab Rab ul Ezat hamin pukarain tu hamara monh kala ho aur hamray pass koi jawab na ho keh ham nay Rab kay kawaneen ko apnay matlab kay leay change kar lea aur un logon ka sath na dea jo sirf Allah kay leay lartay rahay……. Think… Ghazi Abdul Rashid (Shaeed) nay jo b kea sirf Allah kay leay kea un ka koi zati matlab naheen tha aur Allah sab say behtar jantay hian woh sirf Ham sab ki Rasi lambi kar rhay hain yeh na socho keh woh daikh nahe rahay…….
aur han aap sub log kon hain kea ap main say koi esa hay jis nay 10 sal sirf Allah ki kitab ko smjanay kay leay lagaey hoon ya nabi ki baton ko samja ho naheen na i m sure keh aap sub logon main say sab kay sab dunya ki education hasil kar kay debatis Allah par kar rahay ho pehlay es kabil tu bano keh Allah ki bat kar sako apnay eman daikho kea tum main nay koi hay jo Allah kay leay kisi say thapar kha lay naheen i m sure koi naheen ho ga woh log tu Allah kay leay goliyan kha gaey aur tum log un kay khilaf bat karo gay tum sab log sirf esi kabil ho keh asi batain kro jin say tum logon kay gunah zada hoon aur Allah kay ghazab ko face karoo zada say zada……. time tu ab b hay Allah say daro aur us kay nam kay leay uth kharay ho na keh Pakistan (just a part of earth) ya Musharaf kay leay.. yeh Sari zameen Allah nay banai hay sari zameen par Allah ka kanoon hona chayay aur sari zamen Musalman ki na koi aik hisa naheen…..think
dear ordinary pakistani i value your point of view…..as far as personal attacks are concerned i might have said harsh words to haq as he used to avoid the topic but you are right one should refrain from it and im sorry if anything i said offended anybody but with the other gentleman ‘dark cloud” i was normal rather he is offensive……anyways i think there is highly anything debatable…..picture is quite clear but as u said its only visible to those who use their brains not emotions….ghazi’s actions cannot be justified in the light of quran n sunnat neither our govt is totally innocent……as far as operation is concerned yes its true that it could have been avoided but ghazi rasheed if had surrendered would have avoided the bloodshed…… whateer the case is ,political situation, we have to go to courts that is the only option or press conference ……we cannot take the law in our own hands by claiming courts are not functioning effectively……..his death is also not of a shaheed n policemen/soldiers who died are shaheeds as their personal interest/intention was not involved…….
u say n i quote “One can only hope that good sense should prevail and poeple start understanding what is good and bad for us as a Muslim nation.”
my net was running slow and the page was uploading when this mail of sadia habib caught my attention.
By saadia Habib on Aug 1, 2007 | Reply
“””dear all, Jamia hafza main army nay fasforas bomb painkay hain jin say iron b pigal jata hay insan tuinsan hay.. and they were not 22 to 2300 they were more than 2800 in side. mari cousins wahan theen woh b parhateen theen un kay mutabiq tu round about 3000 talbat aur talibelam wahan thay jab woh log nikleen wahan say tu aur un logon kaybahad tu koi 50 log aur bahar aey hain not more than this.. ghalib imkan hay 2800-3000 bachay, khawateen aur larkay wahan shaheed huay hain”””””””””
now read this post
By saadia Habib on Aug 13, 2007 | Reply
Madam Ayesha ur point keh etnay sary namehram kasay akhathay reh rahay thay tu for your kind information main nay b akhri din Ume Hassan kay sath he serrender kea tha.
the post made on aug 1st said that her cousins were students of jamia hifza .she never in that post mentioned about her…what ever she is telling is according to her cousins who surrendered r,reported it.
now in the second post she said i also surrendered.
now what u have to say about this dark cloud??????ayesha was lying or not im not sure but this is a clear indication she(sadia) never in her first post mentioned that she was also a student….i now seriously doubt about her cousins being student of jamia hifza…..in the same way i also feel that its a way to gather sympathies………
neloofar bakhtiar_______________
(Dark Cloud)(can u believe this non-sensehow can u believe her..first off whether she kissed or not
but i saw the pictures on geo tv my self she was ambracing forget about muslim non muslim men
i ask her and u ..that is it allowed in islam for a muslim woman to even touch body of na-mehram and non muslim
((2ndly she was wearing pants are pants allowed in islam for women even men cant wear tight pants in islam sys holy quran surah noor 24:30-31 )
o my god she says “its their custom to greet like thati.e touching cheeks it was nothing more than thatwhat kind of muslim is she
and what kind of muslim are u nauman for supporting her even she said that.))
(((AANNNND especialy in the last line she is openly supporting neelofur and her act does ur version of shariiat allow this ))).
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first of all why dark cloud ur mentioning this to a post addressed to me….coz u will say why im replying to it……….
fortunately or unfortunately i have the same view point….she did not embrace him intentionally in my opinion ….maybe it was initiated by that trainer…..
as far as the second part is concerned i.e about pants in which u said men are not allowed to wear pants then my dear ghazi rasheed should have abducted boys/men from islamabad to give them knowledge about pants/dress……men should have been guided first instead of a woman…..now i know ur answer it will ” prostitution is a bigger sin than pants”….
“””and what kind of muslim are u nauman for supporting her even she said that.))
(((AANNNND especialy in the last line she is openly supporting neelofur and her act does ur version of shariiat allow this ))).”””
only Allah knows what kind of muslim im…..n app kisi k khilaf fatwa bhi nahi dai saktay takay uski life kharab karain aur usko badnam karain…burai ka ishtihar nahi banana chahye…..
nauman, sadia is correct. You better find out what kufr is at least. I talked to mufti hamid ullah Jan and according to him your position takes you out of islam.
Dear Osman
Which position of Nauman takes him out of Kufr. Since a mufti Sahib has taken a decision about this, therefore i am also interested in knowing about that. Declaring someone as a Kaafir is a sensitive issue and we should exercise precaution on that.
As far as Sadia’s statement is concerned, it definitely creates some doubt because in her second post she mentioned that she had surrendered on the last day but in her earlier post she mentioned about her cousins and not a single word about her being there. I dont say that she is lying but it creates some doubt and Haq who has a talent and he is trained to analyze people and situations, should throw some light on this.