Pakistan Ka Mutlub Kia? Islam Ki Ruswai, Aur Kia

Guest post by temporal of Baithak Blog

Al- Quran 5:32 “…if any one slew a person – unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.”

Forget we are Pakistanis for a moment? Remember we are Muslims – first and last – nice, wonderful, kind, gun toting neighbour hating Muslim.

Of course this has nothing to do with Islam or Pakistan. Any one who casts even a wild aspersion over this is a bigot.

True, 98 or 99% of Pakistanis follow Islam.

True, at cartoons and books published in distant lands forces us to come out in the streets and burn and loot our public property.

True, we believe in one Allah.

True, we kill other Muslims in the name of (our) Allah without regret.

True, true, true!

Now, let us forget about Tasleem Solangi.

Let us forget about the sisters in Baluchistan.

Let us forget about Dr Shazia and Mukhtaran Mai.

Let us forget about Allah and His Book.

Let us forget about Muhammed (saw) and Bukhari and Tirmizi et al.

Let us forget about rule of law, forget about courts, and parliaments and democracy.

We have wise men in jirgas. They know best. They are fair and just. They are more powerful than dead pious men.

They know Islam best. Let us roll over and play dead.

As it is we have been told we do not have anything in the till to pay up our fiscal debts, while the billionaire non-identical twins Zardari-Sharif rush off abroad to manage their vast holding at the slightest excuse.

Let us forget these deaths.

Let us talk about IMF, Plan Z, Load Shedding, Chenab waters, Ata, Daal and Roti and Islam.

Pakistan ka mutlub kia?
Islam ki ruswai, aur kia

ISLAMABAD: There is more to the bone-chilling account of the 17-year-old Taslim Solangi of Khairpur who was thrown to dogs — she was 8-month pregnant and was forced to give birth to her baby prematurely.

The baby was immediately thrown into the nearby Ubhal Wah canal after her killer father-in-law passed a judgement that the child was illegitimate and did not deserve to be allowed to live. By Rauf Klasra


Posted

in

, ,

by

Comments

85 responses to “Pakistan Ka Mutlub Kia? Islam Ki Ruswai, Aur Kia”

  1. Farhan Avatar

    Teeth , first I don’t agree with your heading , it’s degradatory to all those people who sacrificed for this country chanitng the correct version of this slogan . coming to Tasleem Solangi , It’s said that Allah will give you the rulers as the ones you deserve , we are the ones throwing our women in front of dogs and our leaders and at doing their best to throw the whole nation to dogs , Tasleem died and got rid of the pain but the dogs we are going to face will keep us alive for themselves neither we will be able to defend to ourselves nor die in shame .

  2. Shah Avatar
    Shah

    Dear Temporal
    Once I stayed in Murree for a while in winter.Everything was white with snow.In the beggining it was good but than I got fed up I decided with my neice and knephew to make a snowman.To my surprise under months of snow grass shoots were still green.
    That is what I call hope.Not only on national level on personal level as well sometimes things get from bad to worse but as long as a person tries to correct .Things do turn out right.
    We have to pull out of this together.It is like the basic principal of Life.We all know every human is on plannet earth only for a span of 60 to 80 years.It does not mean we kill ourselves today.untill the time comes we have to put our best effort to survive and make life better.
    “TOUGH TIMES NEVER LAST BUT TOUGH PEOPLE DO”

  3. Lady M.B.B.S. Avatar
    Lady M.B.B.S.

    @Temporal

    why dont you change your name?
    i would suggest “Frontal”
    bcoz frontal lobe of brain is used for critical thinking 🙂

  4. Barrister Ali K.Chishti Avatar
    Barrister Ali K.Chishti

    Since when 98-99% of Pakistan are Muslims or the JI verse quoting blogers refuse to count minorities as “humans” ?

    BTW, this country was never meant to be an Islamic state but was made only after Nehru backed out of Cabinet Mission Plan in 1946 which was to form United States of India (MAJ/ML/Congress/Unionists all stake holders agreed). The country is a product of sociology rather then theology.

  5. Abidi Avatar
    Abidi

    I agree to this blog, but the title is a slap for the conscience mind not for the *sold-outs*.

    Tasleem solangi was one of our sister who was murdered by her *OWNERS*.

    But nothing would happen if the people who committed this crime have *connections*. There will be no GOVT RIT, just like what happened to the murderers of five women in Baluchistan recently.

    The govt only comes into action if the International media makes the cry. Not because the govt cares for its people but they want to get books published, get their pictures published and have their interviews taken or may be to get phony PEACE AWARDS and nothing else.

  6. guYasir Avatar
    guYasir

    Pakistan Ka Mutlub Kia? Musalmano Ki Ruswai, Aur Kia?
    Muslims shud be better instead of Islam becuz Islam revealed to spread whole over humanity as a whole way of life so Islam ki ruswai nahi ho sakthi rather those will be ruswa who doesnt follow/implement Allah rules. This is muslims among themselves who gone astray for worldly gain. Arabs are too corrupt so as Pakis who are only nominal-muslims. Each and every institution/dept is being corrupted according to TIP survey go and read it urself
    http://www.transparency.org.pk/
    Humanity is under occult attack by those who want world hegemony in every field whether be it media, press, education, economy etc
    They are extremely racists and their motto is “divide and rule” then infiltrate and subvert
    Islam is last and final obstacle in front of secular materialistic new world order which is wrapped in 24 protocols in its 4th protocol which heading is Materialism Replaces Religion and Allah says in his Book that materialism is satanism. Isn’t it?
    Must read these protocols in order to get contemporary world and its sinful affairs.
    http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-references-protocols-full-text-folder.html

  7. guYasir Avatar
    guYasir

    What you’ve quoted from Koran is the Ayat for those Jews who slain Prophets. Allah giving msg to those who killed their own prophets in particular and rest in general.
    Bush also know this ayat and quoted it in his speech bastard-bush push to bush or ambush to bush. He’s a murderer and mischievous-man.

  8. Rafay Kashmiri Avatar
    Rafay Kashmiri

    @ what an intellectual bankruptcy, financial disaster
    open up your real face, now you are attacking
    Pakistan’s very Nazaria, you must be collectively
    Punished for your transgression against AlMighty

    Traitors always comeup with their ” Khameer “

  9. Rafay Kashmiri Avatar
    Rafay Kashmiri

    @Barrister Ali K Chisti,

    how can you change the history ? what does “Cabinet
    commission ” means against full fledged Round table
    conference agreement and signed by all parties including
    Nehru and Patel. Does Cabinet Commssion represents
    any one ?? this commission was not imposed by Brit
    theorocracy and old retired gagas recruited by dying
    Brit Empire ?

  10. Rafay Kashmiri Avatar
    Rafay Kashmiri

    @ Since when secularism got married with Qadianism ?

    @ Farhan said it, when nations transgress and corrupt,
    then we impose on them those rulers who are worst than
    the transgressed, a child of 10 can make you all
    convinced of this phenomenan, but still they dont
    learn
    Rab dangan nei marda, denda mat nu maar

    this is what your blog represents with a shameful
    bended necks with regrets, punishment is yet to come,
    do prepare, then if you cry and protest then I shall
    laugh at you with huge laughters and would spit on
    your faces, you worst haiwans of Pakistan.

  11. Rafay Kashmiri Avatar
    Rafay Kashmiri

    @ curiously this post was brought today to counter
    my questions to the posters on Islamabad observer.

    if you are in favour of Nazaria-e-Pakistan and
    agree with Pakistan’s constitution of 1973, your
    identity would have been widly revealed to us all.

    come on lets start with it !! who will be the first

    TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN
    ————————–

    I, Rafay Kashmiri, do solemly declared that I adhere
    completely with Nazaria-e-Pakistan and approve the
    constitution of 1973. And I believe staunchly in
    Khatm-e-Nabuwat of Muhammed SAW as the last Prophet.

    NEXT PLEASE !

  12. Rafay Kashmiri Avatar
    Rafay Kashmiri

    @ Temporal,

    muslims can be good bad worst, like every religion,
    but condemning Islam is a donkey’ambitions which has
    no logic as usual.

  13. Barrister Ali K.Chishti Avatar
    Barrister Ali K.Chishti

    @Rafay Kashmiri – english please!

    Cabinet Plan was never “imposed” upon ML and Congress even a lay-man knows that! Btw, school did you go too?

    (here’s a piece from one of my articles published although this is common knowledge)

    The Cabinet mission send out by the Attlee government in May 1946 proposed a plan specifically intended to defuse the ML’s demands. Independent India was to be a federal union in which overall central government controls would be limited to foreign affairs, defense and communications. The provinces, which would assume responsibility for other matters, would be free to form regional groupings. The Punjab and Bengal the provinces with a Muslim majority, would therefore be able to set themselves up as autonomous states within a truly loose federation. Both the ML and the Congress accepted this plan and their elected representatives prepared to sit together in a Constituent Assembly designated by the provincial assemblies in 1945-1946. So the specter of Partition receded; but on 10 July 1946 Nehru surprised everyone and stated that his party did not consider itself bound by any previous commitments, and that Constituent Assembly in which Congress had a majority would be sovereign in all matters. The ML decided to withdraw from the constitutional process and to mobilize for the “Day of Direct Action” on 16th of August.

    As for your question about the Cabinet Mission plan and Muslim League`s subsequent refusal to join the assembly… The league had agreed to come into the assembly after the explicit agreement on the Cabinet Mission Plan. Once Nehru claimed that as the Majority party the Congress was free to act as it pleased in the assembly the agreement became null and void. This was done to appease the soft Hindutva element which had crept up in the Congress.

    There is rationale for a secular state even in a 100% Muslim state let alone a state like Pakistan… the rationale is simply to not get into matters of faith which would end up being a divisive force … like Rushdie says in his book `Shame` .. (paraphrasing) … Pakistanis could have cemented a national identity on the basis of a common faith had they not made such an awesome deal out of the faith.

    So secularism and its practical uses go beyond the human rights and minorities` rights argument….

  14. yaseen ch Avatar

    well, you should change the headline, its not giving any good impression at all.

  15. Chamaat Avatar
    Chamaat

    Change this bloody heading..you dumb..a$$$

  16. Rafay Kashmiri Avatar
    Rafay Kashmiri

    @ Barrister Chishti,

    why the hell you ever brought this crap of
    Cabinet mission and Nehru’s supposedly helped
    Muslim State, you talked rubbish, admit,
    who the hell are you to judge or even utter nonsense
    like
    ” this country was not suppose to be an Islamic
    state………….. crap.
    The country is a product of sprituality which
    includes sociology, you do’nt even know that Islam
    is 80% social, gurantees the citizens of every
    social aspect. Thus an Islamic State,
    to hell with your
    secularism, socialism, marxisim or Qadianism, these
    are nothing but murderers of humanity.

    before opening your
    mouth you should have realized there are millions and
    millions of people who made Pakistan and are witnesses
    against your monsonges.
    Keep your Master’s yateem language called Englsih
    inside your pocket, you need it, whenever you beg
    or lick boots of your master. Colonial Patwaris.
    since when donkeys attending colleges ? reading in
    Universities ?
    do you believe in Nazaria-e-Pakistan and
    1973’s contitution ?

  17. guYasir Avatar
    guYasir

    yaseen ch are ya yokel?

  18. Rafay Kashmiri Avatar
    Rafay Kashmiri

    @ Temporal,

    I would suggest you to withdraw this dirty,
    anti-Pakistani, anti-Islamic, anti-muslims
    coward, anti-human rights, anti-freedom of
    expresssion, how would you react ? if its

    Secularism ka matlab kia ?
    Hinduvta ka matlab kia ?
    Qadianiat ka matlab kia ?
    Evangelist ka matlab kia ?
    Marxism/communiste ka mutlab kia ?
    Sikhism ka matlab kia ?
    Suffism ka matlab kia ?
    ” PPP” Ka matlab kia ?
    Zarbhutt ka matlab kia ?
    Batilan ka matlab kia ?

    I would love to handle all of them !

  19. Rafay Kashmiri Avatar
    Rafay Kashmiri

    @Barrister Chishti,

    sorry, I forgot, your last para which is indeed
    a Shahkar of litracy, particularly when mentionning
    a marginal like Rushdie, then you venture into
    Secularism’s theory “borrowed”
    from french law of 1901 and 1905, or have you invented
    your own pendoo thories ?

  20. Barrister Ali K.Chishti Avatar
    Barrister Ali K.Chishti

    @Kashmiri Sahib,
    Accuse me to be a “pig” but never-ever call me a “paindoo” or a “mirpuri”.
     
     
    Read English – it says,
     
    “Nehru backed off from his commitments forcing MAJ to make Pakistan.

     
    Pakistan is not an ideological state based on some incoherent idea of a poet. It was a product of history, brought about by a series of events, which were political in nature and were the result of the discord between the two leading parties Congress and the Muslim League… Like Azad points out in his book, there were many opportunities for the Congress to end the feud .. and for all practical purposes, Muslim League would have become a wing and an extension of the Congress Party. Those who continue to criticize me for `delving unduly in the past` fail to realize that a lot of Pakistan’s problems today are the result of an `imagined ideology` which has been allowed to continue unchecked by those who have been unwilling to set the historical record straight.
     
    The maker of the 1973 Constitution, pseudo democrat president Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, had the singular honor of being the first civilian martial law administrator the world apart from his fascism against my people he did everything to save his seat and that included joining hands with mullahs – MQM happens to be the only party true to Quaids vision of a truly secular Pakistan (with all the violence but someone I AGREE too – it’s part of our society from Direct Action Day to 12th of May).

  21. Barrister Ali K.Chishti Avatar
    Barrister Ali K.Chishti

    ANP Kasha Who ASAP Sam he Bhai To Kea Sam he.

    Maze Kahn Ka Job Hai Erik Kane aura doors Sam he.

    Kashmiri Sahibs comments:
    “Secularism’s theory “borrowed” from french law of 1901 and 1905?”
     
     
    It pretty much came from Jinnah and the Pakistan Movement. Ulema and religious fanatics (forefathers of the Taleban the Deobandis) were in alliance with Gandhi and the Congress Party and opposed to Jinnah and the Muslim League and the entire Pakistan Movement. Pakistan was envisaged as a secular state by the founders of Pakistan. Unfortunately, people like you don’t remember or deliberately ignore the opposition of JUI-H and Azads/Madudis to Pakistan and dilly-dallying with Congress.
     
    Pakistani secularists like myself atleast don’t envisage a thumping ban on religious expression or even state recognition of majority’s ethos which will in any secular democratic society be the basis of legislation. Just like in Secular India, the ethos will ultimately be determined by the Hindu values… in a secular Pakistan it is Islam and its civic code and ethos.
     
    25th October 1947. Interview with Reuters’ Duncan Hooper note: not to be confused with his interview with Reuters’ Doon Campbell which has been quoted in detail else where.

    Minorities DO NOT cease to be citizens. Minorities living in Pakistan or Hindustan do not cease to be citizens of their respective states by virtue of their belonging to particular faith, religion or race. I have repeatedly made it clear, especially in my opening speech to the constituent Assembly, that the minorities in Pakistan would be treated as our citizens and will enjoy all the rights as any other community. Pakistan SHALL pursue this policy and do all it can to create a sense of security and confidence in the Non-Muslim minorities of Pakistan. We do not prescribe any school boy tests for their loyalty. We shall not say to any Hindu citizen of Pakistan ‘if there was war would you shoot a Hindu?’
     
     
    The irony is that people lacking in “intellectual rigor“ venture on debates about secularity and idea of Pakistan.  

  22. Barrister Ali K.Chishti Avatar
    Barrister Ali K.Chishti

    wops! messed up poetry!

    should have been,

    Apna Kaha Woh Aap Samjhe Bhi To Kia Samjhe.

    Maza Kahne Ka Jub Hai Eik Kahe aur doosra Samjhe.

  23. Unaiza Fatima Avatar
    Unaiza Fatima

    The people who did this deserve to be hanged in front of public and burnt. But NO…WAIT! Let us ask HRCP before executing capital punishment. They don’t like capital punishments in our country, do they?

  24. Barrister Ali K.Chishti Avatar
    Barrister Ali K.Chishti

    HRCP? that fake-feminst “begum-bajis”? it’s a social group more then a human rights! the closest human contact they have happens to be there husbands 🙂

  25. Lady M.B.B.S. Avatar
    Lady M.B.B.S.

    KAABA KIS MUN SE JAO GAY *HALI*
    *SHARAM* TUM KO MAGAR NAHIN AATI

  26. Faisal.k Avatar

    Good piece temporal…i agree with ali although it is widely believed that pakistan was made for religon the underlying operations suggest otherwise. If pakistan was made for islam why did the larger part of the mussalmans stay on that side? India still has a huge muslim populace nahi?

    To me the solution is to seperate the mosque from the state….if we want to follow qaids path rather than baitullahs that is. These people have made us doubt our own people everyday.

  27. Abidi Avatar
    Abidi

    Faisal,

    I don’t think your math is right about majority of Muslims in India. You didn’t include Bangladesh in the equation.

    Even if more Muslims are India they are still treated as third class citizens in your DEMOCRATIC, SECULAR INDIA.

    Long live DO QAUMI NAZARIA

    Pakistan ka matlab kiaa, La Ilaha Illa-Allah

    People who do not agree with DAU QAUMEE NAZARIA should move to india and join BJP

  28. Lady M.B.B.S. Avatar
    Lady M.B.B.S.

    BAITULLAH IS AMERICAN FUNDOOOOO

  29. Irfan Avatar
    Irfan

    Lady M.B.B.S,

    Did you have too much caffeine? or you are digressing on purpose?

  30. Rafay Kashmiri Avatar
    Rafay Kashmiri

    @ Barrister Chishti,@ 4-40
    It is with pleasure, that we would like to inform you
    that we have duely noted your request.

    As for your English loving nature, The British Empire
    had, in the past, a tremendous pleasure to bestow upon
    your Mr M.G.A.Q an eternal favour by receieving
    permanantly his ” Ilham ” in English. The same Ilham
    should force the flipping Pandit to “betray from our
    colonial initiative of Cabinet Commision” so that the
    bloody muslims may not get any credibility instead of
    the penis-less Pandit running around our menopaused
    lady Mountbeaten.

    yours @ 5,08, I did’nt realize your assumptions would
    go beyond Mirza’s collective lunatic asylum.

    Talk about Mirza, come on !

  31. Rafay Kashmiri Avatar
    Rafay Kashmiri

    @ Barrister Chishti,

    I wish I could throw on your face alongwith your
    halimwalis, the whole INDIAN country as a reference of
    your so called ” Original Indian Nehruvian Secularism ”
    with fresh Genocides of Muslims and other minorities.
    Since 1947 Indian existance is a slap on your anti-Islam
    and fake Democracy’s face as well as entire Humanity’s.

  32. Lady M.B.B.S. Avatar
    Lady M.B.B.S.

    i digressed intentionally..search why!

  33. Rafay Kashmiri Avatar
    Rafay Kashmiri

    @ Abidi Saheb,

    well said. faisal knows his place !!

  34. Lady M.B.B.S. Avatar
    Lady M.B.B.S.

    @Irfan

    i was in very hurry actually,

    no comments from my side from now onwards,
    i enjoyed enough,

    tata everyone

  35. Pakistani Avatar

    @Temporal, with its rhyme and meter, the title you chose would fit real well behind a rickshaw or a truck. Can you please summarize what you are trying to say, in a few sentences rather than this attempt at loose psuedo-poetry of some sort. Don’t mix cause and effect. If this post is about the brutal murder of the girl, you can’t expect anything better from people of an uneducated society who are part of this country probably as an afterthought. The news that you linked to has also mentioned:

    “There have been numerous cases where the MNA, a former Nazim, has taken personal risks and saved lives of many women. There have been other cases when she learnt of deaths months after the incidents and ordered enquiries and the culprits were brought to justice. This has been duly acknowledged nationally and internationally, as she received a number of citations on peace and human rights.”

    You are quick to the draw at criticizing how a bunch of ignorant idiots can kill a female, which is wrong, sure, but you don’t realize that its the way of those people, and can’t be changed in a few decades if they are left to their own devices and only noticed when they do wrong. You fail to mention this other female, from the same people, who is fighting successfully against this, and from her citations, it seems that she has won a few battles.
    It is about uneducated people living under rules from a few centuries ago. They killed for family honor, not for Islam, so please don’t go about associating this with the religion.

    BTW temporal, were you part of the Pakistan Movement and know the true reason of why Islam was made, or are you just frustrated that you were born in this godforsaken country instead of, say, the USA? Do you want to make this country better or do you just want to whine and bitch about it and think that you’ve done your part? Do you pass your time by writing such crap while waiting for your canadian immigration or HSMP?
    What I am trying to ask is, please explain the point you are trying to make in this post a bit more clearly, because unless I’m very thick, I don’t see it.
    Terrorists may have hijacked Islam, but posts like yours can contribute in its death, and can be far more damaging.

  36. Pakistani Avatar

    And before I leave, now that whatever-higher-force-you-may-or-may-not-believe-in has shuffled his feet and those idiots are dying due to the earthquake, are you going to do another “haha, told ya so” post, or are you going to get up and help them, out of the sheer benevolence of your heart? Just wondering…

  37. karachikhatmal Avatar

    its ironic that people spent all of yesterday commenting on this post, and no one bothered to add any information or contacts regarding the quake.

    i had come to this website for that very reason, and i was shocked to see that all of yesterday we had people fighting with each other over their bullshit comments and couldn’t be bothered to help pakistanis actually in need.

    all those questioning pakistanis or muslims should just turn around and look at themselves. stop giving a f*** about yourself for one second, and try to help while its still needed.

  38. Rafay Kashmiri Avatar
    Rafay Kashmiri

    @ Karachikhatmal,

    shut up, and try to give your blood if its worth, you
    never know, perhaps you carry Barrister’s English one.

    @ Barrister Chishti,

    its total shame for seculars/marxist of Pakistan
    to lie about MAJ, usually we can identify these liars
    who have been lying since 40 years now that MAJ was a
    secular, it is a lie which can be compared with as if
    one is not sure his/her parents have changed their sexes.

    The thing is that Pak Seculars know the truth but they
    LIE & LIE. They even can not take one phrase or word out
    of one speech of MAJ where he would have used the word
    secular for Pakistn ! I challenge the Barrister ! If he
    can not prove then he will give me the right to call
    him a ” PIG ” OK ? you can keep your Duncans in your
    panteries.

  39. Barrister Ali K.Chishti Avatar
    Barrister Ali K.Chishti

    In the interview to Weldon James of the Collier’s Weekly magazine, on or about 25th August, 1947 the Quaid said:

    “We expect to evolve a progressive, democratic government, in line with the Muslim belief in the equality of all men, and to work for international peace. As I have said many times before, Pakistan guarantees the just and equal treatment of all citizens, Muslim or non-Muslim, with freedom of worship, speech, press and assembly…

    “There are fanatics in all countries; and of course we have some. But the present ‘troubles’ are a hangover from old political alignments and quarrels, stirred up from the outside, and I do not expect any great internal difficulties anywhere in Pakistan. At last Pakistan has been established and now we are free and independent nation to mould, build and reconstruct and in this great task we need goodwill and friendship of all great nations”. (Quaid-e-Azam papers F. 135-GG/5-10).

    I could quote you hundreds of statements

  40. Barrister Ali K.Chishti Avatar
    Barrister Ali K.Chishti

    YOUR TEETH-MAESTRO DIDN’T ALLOWED ME POST A RESPONSE.

    More of your filth – it’s pity how anyone who go against the Mullah-LINE is branded a “Qadyani”. BTW, since you loathe you so much why don’t you call me and meet up – it would be easy to throw me : 0345-9118462 call me!

    As for MAJ he was a secularist here’s what he said in the US

    “Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims-Hindus, Christians and Parsis – but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.” [Feb. 1948, Jinnah’s broadcast address to the people of the United States of America]

  41. Rafay Kashmiri Avatar
    Rafay Kashmiri

    @Karachikhatmal,

    noway, there are many, including myself who were
    busy enquiring right and left to their relatives in
    places severely hit. and at the moment all of us are
    busy. Anyway thanks for reminding !
    We must pray to AlMighty and beg His pardon !!

  42. Teeth Maestro Avatar

    @Ali Chishti

    I would appreciate if you avoid throwing accusations around that ‘someone is trying to censor your comments’ there are none – the only comments that get trashed are comments that use profanity or vulgar language. rest I have no interest in stopping the discussion that is progress. If you and others can talk to each other with respect, then its all ok – but if someone starts to get carried away then its best left off this discussion forum

  43. Rafay Kashmiri Avatar
    Rafay Kashmiri

    @ To Fazil Wakil
    Teeth Maestro might be your Dandaan-saaz, not mine,
    he uses a lot of local anaesthesia ! unlike his faher
    Ilahi, ok lets go on !!!
    One has to clean thick layer of filth over Pak history,

    absolutely rubbish, MAJ never ever used the terms
    socialist, communist, secular, religionless, Godless,
    aetheist, pantheists, progressive (only meant development)

    You know well that the period, post WW2, branded and
    associated the word ” progressive ” to
    Communisim/Socialism/Marxism, so do’nt come with that.
    The only concrete message I can get from your radio
    recorded message (supposedly)of MAJ, is
    ” we do’nt want a vatican in Pakistan ”
    and by far a Socilaist Republic,neither,
    nobody is interested in having them.
    The rest, about minority, MAJ was taught the
    teachings of Islam, to respect minorities. I don’t know
    if you have knowdege of Islamic history. !

    Did, Secular Russia respected minorites ?? or any
    comtemprary Political entity, a country like France, UK
    Holland etc etc.

    before in your comment

    The international Protocolaire message was not the
    national Internal policy of Jinnah,
    The word
    ” Fanatics ” I have reserves, rather suspicions, on the
    usage of such terms only arrived in public in late 70s,
    atleast in the comtemporary English or French language
    Political journalism, or is it MAJ’s own words.

    Whereas MAJ’s epoch, they were all talking nothing but
    Che Gevara, Marx, Engels, Trotsky, Castro, Mao, Ghandi
    Buddha and all kind of mortals.

    Do’nt get nervous, the whole Qadiani tribe is against
    Mullah, Maulevis, Muftis, Maulanas, hajis, Mujahids,
    Qazis etce etc, AND YOU KNOW WELL, WHY ?
    There is a huge vague and trend to be anti-religious,
    without even thinking, but the same are somewhere found
    practicing rituals of Buddhist, Hindus, pagans, and
    approving the Hindu-cult.

  44. Barrister Ali K.Chishti Avatar
    Barrister Ali K.Chishti

    Awab, it’s not baseless – all I could see till the evening is 19 comments and the rest as if somehow – someone limited my viewing! maybe it’s my fault – I respect your judgment and appreciate your honesty – must have been connection problems!

  45. Barrister Ali K.Chishti Avatar
    Barrister Ali K.Chishti

    Jinnah however was a Khoja Ithna Ashari …it is a sub-sect that constitutes ex Ismaili Khojas. Jinnah’s family converted enmasse to Ithna Ashari Islam and became part of Khoja Ithna Ashari community. Jinnah once said that it was not out of rancor or hatred for Hindus that he asked for Pakistan and he was right. After all his entire social life consisted of primarily Hindus…and technically speaking, Jinnah was part of the Hindu bourgeoisie since Khoja Ismailis and ithna asharis followed Hindu family law …and Jinnah himself remained part of the emerging Bombay glitterati …which came with British inspired prosperity and culture. It was natural that Jinnah was so strongly a part of the Congress.

    The rationale for Pakistan lies in the interests of the nascent Muslim bourgeoisie which was belated …since for the longest time mullahs stopped Muslims from acquiring western education …till ofcourse Sir Syed came to the scene.

    Sir Syed also managed to ossify a muslim identity when he urged Muslims not to join the Congress (which is why only a few joined like Tyabji and Jinnah)…

    Secularism does not make a nation into an atheist, but it does make the tolerance of all religious believes possible and in a nation with multiple religious believes, each religion must be provided with the space to exist without being dominated or persecuted by one particular religion that has the offical patronage of the state.

    The argument, whether MAJ was secularist or Islamist only makes sense if point was that Pakistan was created in the name of a religion, but it was not. Pakistan was created to ensure the consitutional, economic and religious, cultural freedoms of Indian Muslims and had Congress agreed to these demands, MAJ would not have pursued the case of the Indian Muslims to the point of partition in 1947.

    I had come up with credible references and I don’t see any of MAJ’s quotes?

  46. readinglord Avatar
    readinglord

    Chishti vs Kashmiri! A good debate indeed! I live near the Jinnah Heights on the Islamabad Highway which is bedecked with a bust of the Quaid. This bust once remained lighted at night and en lighted our house even during load sheddings, but now now it ever remains shrouded in darkness even when there is light all around, even in his motto of ‘Discipline’. His ‘Faith’ and ‘Unity’ also remain in the dark. What message does this convey? Is it not ‘blasphemous’?

    Btw, what about ‘Two-Nation’ theory! Kashmiries and Bangladeshies are nations in their own right but we cannot
    call ourselves even Muslim as of right.

  47. Barrister Ali K.Chishti Avatar
    Barrister Ali K.Chishti

    @readinglord,
    MAJ had agreed to an independent and united Bangladesh in 1947. It was unfortunately, Nehru again who vetoed it because he felt that this would mean “balkanization”. As for Two Nation Theory – Pakistan’s creation replaced two communal nations with two geographical ones. Hence Jinnah’s 11th August speech and other 30 pronouncements about there being no bar on the basis of faith.
    Unfortunately, we did not follow his vision.

  48. Rafay Kashmiri Avatar
    Rafay Kashmiri

    @ Fazil wakil ki bekar kawishein,

    It seems you love visiting graveyards, just to dig
    out useless small bones, and look for imaginary
    nostalgia.

    M A J THE GREATEST was born as Asna Ashri, so what ?
    and was born in Brit colonized India like your father,
    my father, My Great Grand Father a Kashmiri was an
    employee of Brit Indian Army as a Doctor in Kashmir,
    transfered to Amritsar^in 1857. I can still trace back
    my great grand uncles still remained Brahamans like
    donkeys, unless kicked out from Kashmir. They all
    functioned like loyal subjects of her Majesty, Congress
    was the only “desi” opinion,
    but then slowly muslim opinion came up, who can have
    anything against it ??

    M A J DECLARED OPENLY IN PUBLIC WHEN ASKED WHICH
    SECT Did he BELONGed, HIS ANSWER WAS HISTORIC, HE REPLIED
    I DO NOT BELONG TO ANY SECT , I AM A SIMPLE MUSLIM.
    POINT.

    Fazil wakil can keep on digging his ancestral shrines.

    With all due respect to Sir Seyed who tried his best
    to bring in movements of “progress” ( not communist)
    and development among muslims, I never expected from
    him, a mufti type, piety, even having a thick enormous
    beard, but atleast he tried to wake muslims up to face
    the reality, he succeded in it, yes, some drawbacks
    on his personal account does not matter much, remember,
    we were all slaves !!! I will differ from him in many
    ways but no doubt he is one of the pillers of muslim
    awakened conscience in Brit India where muslims were
    purposely left behind by the Brits and Hindu rascles.

    Fazil Wakil is încapable to understand the TWO Nation
    theory, in other historical words ” do qaumi Nazaria ”
    M A J declared 25.000 times that on the basis of
    do qaumi Nazaria, he wanted partition of India at the
    time of colonial departure, and that partition will
    we in favour of majority consisting muslim regions
    called Pakistan,
    Kashmir, Hydeabad and Junagargh was militarily
    invaded by liar Nehru, East Bengale remained with
    Pakistan,
    thats another topic Fazil wakil will be interogated
    later by the defence,

    Fazil wakil is demanded to explain why, for whome, how,
    Pakistan was demanded and snatched away from Brit-hindu
    conspiracy ?

    And if Pakistan was created for Hasharat-ul-Behar or
    for Hindus, Sikh, Qadianis, Suffis ?

    The rest of your missive is really boring to death !

    The only thing I would tell you Fazil Wakil that

    MY GREATEST BABA M A J, NICKED, BRITS AND OTHER INDIAN
    PARASITES AT THE SAME TIME, AND I KNOW THE EVIL HAS
    NEVER PARDONNED THIS TO THE GREATEST OF ALL M A J.

    IN MY EVERY BREADTH, UNTIL I DIE, WILL ALWAYS THANK
    BABA FOR THE HIGHEST FAVOUR ON ME, I WAS BORN FREE.

    Mohammed Ali Jinnah The Greatest Leader on Earth

  49. Rafay Kashmiri Avatar
    Rafay Kashmiri

    @ Fazil Wakil

    Pandit Nehru was such a donkey that
    he would have thought of ” Balkanization ” and
    left the job to you or readinglord to write down
    in the history, some wrongnumbers dialed to many
    wrong persons. What are you talking, Wakil saheb,

    Dimagh mein khalal hay, ya Khalal mein Dimagh,
    Baitha hon aik chowk par, jaon kidhar ko mein

  50. Barrister Ali K.Chishti Avatar
    Barrister Ali K.Chishti

    Rafay Sahib,

    Dear Kashmiri Sahib, I could see you can not produce any credible source or rationality to your own words. I along with everyone would appreciate if you strictly stick to an academic discussion instead of bring emotions for the clearity of discussion.

    Kashmiri Sahib, both Sarat Chanderbose and Suhrawardy agreed to create an independent United secular Bengal… and they brought this pact to MAJ who accepted it. This incident can be found in every history book. It was Nehru who shot down this idea.

    Here is Encyclopedia Brittanica:

    Suhrawardy met with Sarat Chandra Bose, the acknowledged Hindu political leader in Bengal, and the two agreed that they should claim a separate, independent united Bengal. Jinnah was prepared to agree, as was Mountbatten, but Mahatma Gandhi and the Congress Party refused. When partition did come, it was decided by religion rather than language

    http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-33418/Bangladesh