Blasphemy, in its literal meanings, is defined as a behaviour or language expressing disrespect for God or for something sacred
The issue of blasphemy, highlighted again by the recent banning of certain websites in Pakistan, has caught the attention of everyone again, through debates on media. I also read and heard different versions of thought on the issues of blasphemy. While due to the rapid transmission of the message throughout the country, and due to pressure generated by the perceived angry reaction( read road demonstrations resulting in injuries, burning , destruction and looting) of the people, authorities were keen to ban the sites within a few hours.
On the other side, it also gave birth to a serious question in my mind that ‘what the hell is blasphemy’ indeed?
As an ordinary Muslim, I may not be an authority to speak on Islam,(although Islam never limited or restricted opinion formation , to any ‘authority’), still the concept of blasphemy, as it is practiced in Pakistan at least, seems skewed, lacking commonsense and dare I say quite the opposite to what we learn as Muslims were the teachings of the prophet whose very honour we are trying to protect. Doesn’t that sound how we define the word ‘hypocricy’?
With our outrageous behaviour of killing, injuring, looting and burning do not we defile what the Prophet termed as sacred for Muslims and human beings? And thus by not listening to what he commanded do we not commit blasphemy?
It is saddening ( and not surprisingly lacking common sense) that, where the blasphemy laws deal with the cases such as Reciting prayers in a language other than Arabic (Indonesia); being alone with persons of the opposite sex who are not blood relatives; practicing yoga (Malaysia); watching a film or listening to music (Somalia); wearing make-up on television (Iran); and touching a Quran or touching something that has touched a Quran because the individuals were not Muslim (Nigeria), it shuts its eyes to what the life of the Prophet exemplifies. Yes that is his Sunnah.
While speaking about the sacredness of the Islamic beliefs and practices, how can the self styled and self declared saviours of the Islamic customs just ignore what the prophet had made sure to convey to them by asking it thrice in his last address that ‘have I conveyed the message of Allah to you?’
He laid out clearly as to what is sacred to the believers, when he said, “Allah, the Blessed, the Supreme, has made your blood, your property and your honor as sacred as this day of yours in this town of yours, in this month of yours (and such protection cannot be slighted) except rightfully.”
And then he alarmed that ‘do not revert to disbelief after me by cutting the necks of each other.‘
Where do we stand today in the light of Prophet’s message?
Is the blood, property and human dignity and honour, any matter of concern for us? Does anyone really deem these as sacred?
If we look around ourselves, what we see rampant around us is hunger, poverty, injustice, and people deprived of their rights. Despite seeing it all around us every day, did anyone ever take out a procession against the demeaning and dehumaising levels of poverty that more than 70% of us live in?
The crux and thrust of the message of Islam revolves around the significance of the right of the human beings. The objectives of the prophet was the conveyance of the divine messages, reform of society and the liberation of man from the clutches of perversion, crime and moral decay and taking them out from the depths of ignorance of their being. Their objective was to free him from the evils of tyrants and oppressors and to wean them off backwardness and superstition.
But we will still see around us that the touching of Quran by a non Muslim is an issue of blasphemy and dying of hunger is not. We still place the pages of Quran at the highest place in our homes but completely ignore the message it proclaims.
The message of God as the prophet conveyed is that Islam is the synonym for peace. Peace, I repeat the word. Islam stands for the justice. It stands against the discrimination of any kind and oppression and harassment of the weak. If anything it stands for is then it is these underlying principles, revitalizing the human dignity and a just society. A path for human beings that help them form a just society, enhancing life on earth and, making use of its resources and materials ( in moderation and as a trust) and using human and intellectual energies for the benefit of other humans.
Islam is about just distribution and use of resources equitably to all members of society with a view to nip in the bud the formation of any category of economic or social classes. This was the message of the Prophet and the principles of Islam in its human and social dimensions.
What was the message the Prophet conveyed to Meccan woman when he went to see how she was? The woman who used to throw garbage on him daily, when she was not there to through the dirt on him one day?
What did he mean when he told the people to choose for their brothers the same what they like for themselves?
Do we have the moral nerve to give the people what we like for ourselves? Is not the desecration of the teachings and orders of the God and prophet, not following these teachings the blasphemy then?
He asked his people thrice whether he conveyed His message.
Why are we silent then? Silent in practice… Do we still not know what is sacred? Or we are not his people?
We are indeed all blasphemers. And those demonstrating to protect his honour, who defile and desecrate his teachings by their very acts of arson and pillaging, while completely ignoring his message against poverty, injustice and human misery are the biggest blasphemers of us all.
Comments
116 responses to “What is Blasphemy?”
What I have observed throughout the 45 years of my life in Pakistan is that Blasphemy, if done by a Muslim is correct but if a Non-Muslim does it, he's punishable to death.
Beautifully written.
In this BBC report molvi sahab says Ahmad1s should be killed, but very graciously says killing should be done by Government not by people;
Pakistan minorities nervous after Ahmed1 mosque attacks
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/10431069.stm
What a portrayal of Pakistan and Islam.
The embrace of insanity — Sherry Rehman
http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=247575
http://ejang.jang.com.pk/6-29-2010/pic.asp?picnam…
Would any one care to protest on behalf of Sabir Sumro and his sister Kaynat Soomro?
May Allah help this family and may Allah punish the criminals, Ameen.
I do not have anything against the definition of the word but it’s the implication or rather the abuse by the Muslim majority to suppress the minorities which is worrying. The state should not let religion become a tool in the hands of the psycho extremists.
It is strong weapon of mass suppression in which only victims are non muslims and weak people in any society which stands on the name of Islam.
Mullah declaring Ahmadis wajibul-Qatl;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yMSVZ9jFRE
As a nation we mourn our loved ones so frequently that a feeling of numbness is now prevailing. We have become so prone to violence that incidents such as Lahore carnage do not shake up our conscious. The sense of national unity is now under danger as even Taliban have been divided on ethic lines such as Punjabi, Mehsud Taliban, why do they need this embarkation they are simply barbarians.
Sadia
nations cant be unified by dividing the community on the basis of faith and financial status.
In both fields our state shows its performance more than expectation.
Given full support to mullahs and their playground we say medressahs.
Make such laws/ conditions that support and protect rich and their treasures gain through illegal ways.
We have become highly polarized and charged nation.
Different kind of Religious beliefs are charging the nation and only little spark can be a reason of huge explosion in any settled area of Pakistan.
People's obsession to become rich and powerful through all means is product of military rule and day by day showing increase trend in people living close of elites and feudal characters.
These are not taliban who are dividing nation on ethnic colour, this is our paid politicians and settled ulema who are contributing in this kare khair to support miltiary for its escalating war strategies in all over Pakistan.
Now miltiary has only one option to behave like giant of state under US funding and it is to design horror phobia of talibans and then plan military operations on its own people.
Such kind of worst kind of democratic structure is to support militarism in our state that is why sustaining with obstinacy with out giving any relief to 2 bn people.
Aamir Mughal: Can you throw some light on what authority are the blasphemy laws based on? I am not talking of censorship but punishments in Pakistani laws for committing blasphemy.
Were these the opinion of the 4 Imams? I haven't read of anyone punished during the Prophets time for slandering him – correct me if i am wrong. In fact it was quite the opposite – the Holy Prophet's (PBUH) forgiving & respecting nature that lead to the conversion of many of his detractors. What's the evidence on which the Pakistani laws are made?
Sir,
The relevant details for your every query above is as under [a discussion on Blasphemy]: The Blasphemy Law: An Objective Assessment from Religious, Legal & Social Perspectives
Posted by Teeth Maestro October 20, 2009
Where is the link?
It is lost in Mughal's Pandora box.He need some time to find it .At this moment he is busy in keeping his eyes on actions of judiciary ignoring what babar awan ,a hit jiyala of PPP is trying to do in army planes and by supplying money to lawyers.
If these judges needed to fill their pockets it was high time to accept it as zardari and his group is all time ready to award them as per demand who could have given them favor in NRO matters.
Does babar awan this act come in range of blasphemy under state authority?
Al says: June 29, 2010 at 10:32 pm Where is the link?
=================
Dear Al Sahab,
This option of posting the link from Teetmaestro on Teethmaestro is disbaled, please type the subject in search option and you would reach there.
======================
Nazia says: – June 29, 2010 at 11:50 pm It is lost in Mughal’s Pandora box.He need some time to find it.At this moment he is busy in keeping his eyes on actions of judiciary ignoring what babar awan ,a hit jiyala of PPP is trying to do in army planes and by supplying money to lawyers.
=================
Dear Ms. Nazia,
I don't to re-write what I have already discussed. Do read above where is the link.
OK Thanks
People should watch this interview of an Ahmediya Revert to Islam, A.K. Shaikh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5n0NTAUQqY
Al,
Excellent link. An eye opener.
May Allah guide his wife and kids too.
I wonder what were the ulemas of that time doing? debating and debating….?
ulema cant do more than debate that is only purpose of their creation.If the debate would be instigating it would add more decoration in the repute of such ulemas.
Growth of extremists is primarily done in our soil through such debates and then miltiary training and arms supply through state turned them fanatics.
Recent cold murder of ahemdiyas are result of such cruel debates that is freely allowed in our land of illiterates.
This very word, Blasphemy is used purposely to victimize people from minorities by our Muslim brethren. This is indeed shameful and a law must also be enacted that limits the victimization of minorities in the name of Blasphemy.
Farukh Sarwar says: June 30, 2010 at 1:22 pm This very word, Blasphemy is used purposely to victimize people from minorities by our Muslim brethren.
====================
Absolutely, there is no doubt about it. This Law is always used in settling personal scores. By the way if you would go through the Books Compiled by Mullah you would be amazed to know that how they themselves Insulted Islam and committed Blasphemy themselves, a glimpse is under as per their own books [this is compiled by a Muslim Scholar Late. Capt [Retd] Dr. Masooduddin Usmani with original references from their own Original Books
Now read what the Giant Ulema of Deoband, Bareli and Ahl-e-Hadith have uttered worst Blasphemous Comment rather “Disbelief” now download these Comment from this website’s Heading Ghar Kay Chiragh with original reference. Blasphemous Comment by Mullahs against Islam not only Islam but Quran, and Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] and these Mullahs didn’t even spare Allah. Links are as under: JPG/QUOTES to show mirror to Barking Mullahs.
Ghar Kay Chiragh Part – 1
http://www.emanekhalis.com/emanqist1/emangist.htm
Sunta Ja Parhata Ja aur Sharmata Ja [Listen to height of stupidities, read the stupidities and be embarrassed to the hilt] Deendari Ya Dukandari:
http://www.emanekhalis.com/din/din.htm
Brazen Blasphemy against Prophet [PBUT] in the garb of Sufism? Is Shariat Court or Mullahs sleeping?
http://emanekhalis.com/emanqist1/emangist69.htm
Click "agla safha" till the page number 73.
Mughal I should appreciate your reading level that how deeply you read such stupidities or Allah has bestowed you lot of time to go into depth of such dirty literature.
I heard and read such nonsenses in my student life, after thay never plan to waste my precious time on such contents and studying faith that spread hatred and bitter differences between communities living under same geographical boundaries.
By the way how you develop such skills to read all at all cost .Was it part of your job or in your desk job you were most of time free man as we see in our govt's desks so you developed such patience of reading all for gaining none.
Note: Someone had earlier commented by using my ID. My comment is as under:
Nazia says: June 30, 2010 at 2:09 pm Mughal I should appreciate your reading level that how deeply you read such stupidities or Allah has bestowed you lot of time to go into depth of such dirty literature.
MAM: Reading is old habit of mine, since Class 2.
NAZIA: I heard and read such nonsenses in my student life, after thay never plan to waste my precious time on such contents and studying faith that spread hatred and bitter differences between communities living under same geographical boundaries.
MAM: One must read everything to expose Mullahs thoroughly. Reading is not without benefit.
Nazia: By the way how you develop such skills to read all at all cost.Was it part of your job or in your desk job you were most of time free man as we see in our govt’s desks so you developed such patience of reading all for gaining none.
MAM: Reading is my habit, it wasn't my job description to read Mullahs books. By the way there are desks/section in US CIA where they have deputed Officers [Consultants] whose only job is to read/review every known published books and then give expert advice on the same. May the Allah give some wisdom to Pakistani Agencies to do the same. By the way, how do you define "reading all and gaining nothing", how did you reach on this conclusion?
Farukh Sarwar says: – June 30, 2010 at 1:22 pm This very word, Blasphemy is used purposely to victimize people from minorities
======================
You are correct to the hilt: Urdu Section 28 Jun 2010, NewAgeIslam.Com Dalit plight in Pakisan: Let us live too – Part 1 BY Pirbhu Lal Satyani http://www.newageislam.com/NewAgeIslamUrduSection…
Dalit plight in Pakistan: Let us live too – Part 3 BY Prabhulal Satyani
https://teeth.com.pk/blog/2010/06/28/what-is-blasp…
You are worried about dalit who I think are in majority near interior sindh area.
You never saw that what we Muslims are doing with christian community whom we remember as chooras ( lot of apology). and lowest kind of cleaning jobs are assigned to them.
Our ladies who even arrange regular daras in their homes treat this minority in the same manner as Dalits are handled in India or sindh.
It is also very interested to see that in same vicinity house ladies are treating this class as highly untouchable entity and typical working areas are assigned to these christian maids for keeping their faith in secure environment but on the other hand in the absence of women these untouchable creatures are all time invited for illegitimate relations by their husbands .
So how these sacred Muslim ladies tolerate their neat and clean husbands who even not allowed their utensils to be touched by these lady sweepers, is another psychological disaster in our hypocrite society..
aap upnay daam main siyaad aa gia;
http://tribune.com.pk/story/24600/jamaat-e-islami…
Dalit plight in Pakistan: Let us live too – Part 2 BY Pirbhu Lal Satyani http://www.newageislam.com/NewAgeIslamUrduSection…
Mughal: I have read through the first 50 comments of the topic you referred me to but up to now i have not found any useful comments. Most of the comments are aimed at proving one or the other person a kaafir or deviant – Ghamdi & Maudid seem to be very popular contenders. Some people are also confusing seperate issues of apostasy & blasphemy.
I cannot understand how blasphemy is a capital offence in Islam. If it was than shouldn't the muslims been ordered to kill all Kuffars – if not all than most – who used to slander the Prophet(PBUH) and speak against him openly?
And what is the logic of punishing someone for blaspheming the prophet when muslims cannot even say or do anything to those who are blaspheming Allah. I mean clearly, there can be no bigger sin than ascribing partners to Allah. Everything else Allah can forgive but Shirk is something that will never be forgiven. I don't understand how this shirk or blasphemy against Allah is not punishable but blasphemy against the Prophet (PBUH) is. Doesn't seem logical to me.
In my opinion since this is a very sensitive issue for every muslim there should be restrictions on using public forums for blasphemy. But i don't understand where the punishments have been derived from.
Al says: – June 30, 2010 at 5:34 pm Mughal: I have read through the first 50 comments of the topic you referred me to but up to now i have not found any useful comments. But i don’t understand where the punishments have been derived from.
========================
Read my post which answers your query "Al says:
June 29, 2010 at 5:42 pm Aamir Mughal: Can you throw some light on what authority are the blasphemy laws based on?
Were these the opinion of the 4 Imams? I haven’t read of anyone punished during the Prophets time for slandering him – correct me if i am wrong." – The post carry Hadiths which are the foundation for the Punishment of Blasphemy.
Al says: – June 29, 2010 at 5:42 pm Aamir Mughal: Can you throw some light on what authority are the blasphemy laws based on? Were these the opinion of the 4 Imams? I haven’t read of anyone punished during the Prophets time for slandering him – correct me if i am wrong.”
============================
Read post number: 67 Aamir Mughal says: October 29, 2009 at 6:13 am
Four Imams and Validity of their opinion: Blindly Following Imams and School of Thought. http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/blindly-…
To this stupid Neem Hakeem who is continuing to throw mud on others, I would like to help that qadyani supporter to read a bit about those “innocents” who are asked to declare every non-Qadyani a Kaafir. Read the content from Qadyani texts and hide yourself in a bin.
tinyurl.com/253aocs
See this, every one is a kafir;
fatwa, deobandi kafir, brelvi kafir, ahle hadith kafir, kuttay, wahabi کافر
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X01htQUvKcQ
Idiot.
See to what your favourite Muadudi says about Muslim League and Quiad-e-Azam;
http://pakteahouse.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/im…
Hakeem
praise the long term vision of British rules who created JI under maudadi, kashmir issue and qadaayni conflict under mirza.
We people of subcontinent couldn't get rid of such divide rule and fight policy.
None of these issues are resolved after 63 years of declaration of a Muslim state.
Instead of solving through political and religious sensibilities,our leadership actually produce more cloned features of above unsolved problems left by British.
Mughal
see the history of Muslim leadership hardly anyone tried to follow the true legacy of Prophet and His companions.
All strong groups design Islamic principles and masses under their control to hold their supremacy on each others.
I have many times asked you to name any islamic state which is following the blasphemy law in its true spirit.
I have told you too that fairy tales of theoretical knowledge through books is far behind than handling the real situation.People fond of reading might know ups and down of all civilization but they cant solve a real social problem around them.Even they are unaware of what is real sentiments of people living close to them.
So instead of going into historical detail of blasphemy laws just understand the real situation that this global world of communication is more rapid and nuisance than our thoughts.
People will surely come to attack on particular faith or its principles .Their work has become so easy when Taliban like breed is highly being publicized through international media as relic of Chengaz khan in muslim world.
You as individual or even state having variety of cultures and religions in one boundary cant maintain standard of blasphemy for cosmopolitan setups.
Like I give little example in your case.
In your any article you have ridiculously mock on Arabic dress of locals that why these Saudis wear such dress as it is suitable for some indecent jobs which are considered fun loving for these arabs.You also give some list of these activities.
You are forgetting that it is standard dress of Arab culture and Prophet and His companion also worn same kind of dress.
So you think that blasphemy law can be applicable on you too as I who even don't bother for such peculiarities can pin point your wrong notions.
But you did it to define a special Muslim class which are considered as care takers of Holy lands.
So like you people have different aspects to explain their points of ponder as per their experience and observation .
Human minds need lot of space so that their confusions and misunderstanding can be handled in cordial ways.These are the signs of humanity and civilized attitude and strong reason of building foundation of any powerful community.
Nazia says: – June 30, 2010 at 11:08 pm Mughal see the history of Muslim leadership hardly anyone tried to follow the true legacy of Prophet and His companions.
MAM: At least three generations after Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] followed him [PBUH] i.e. Tabaeen and Taba Tabaeen [Companions of the Companions of Prophet] and Companions of Tabaeen]
Nazia: I have many times asked you to name any islamic state which is following the blasphemy law in its true spirit.
MAM: None.
Nazia: I have told you too that fairy tales of theoretical knowledge through books is far behind than handling the real situation.
MAM: I may be a Secular or anything bad you name but these Theoretical Details [hadith and Authentic Tafseer of Quran] are not fairy tales for me.
Nazia: Like I give little example in your case. In your any article you have ridiculously mock on Arabic dress of locals that why these Saudis wear such dress as it is suitable for some indecent jobs which are considered fun loving for these arabs.
MAM: Reason to Insult Aal-e-Saud and Arabs and their dress is because "Quran and Hadith order you to treat everyone equally and be fair and these present Arabs are not rather they are racists. Read the last sermon of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH].
Nazia: You also give some list of these activities. You are forgetting that it is standard dress of Arab culture and Prophet and His companion also worn same kind of dress.
MAM: Wrong again. Go through the Biographies and Hadith and read the Chapter of Dress.
Nazia: So you think that blasphemy law can be applicable on you too as I who even don’t bother for such peculiarities can pin point your wrong notions.
MAM: Blasphemy [read Shaatim-e-Rasool] means insulting Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] and that is no where in my post related with Aal-e-Saud, Arabs and Wahabis: Corrupt, Vile & Filthy: Arabs, Aal-e-Saud, & Wahhaabis. http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/06/corrupt-…
The post above is aimed at mistreatment, labour law violation and above all Disastrous Foreign Policy and too support that Disastrous Fatwa Bazi.
Mughal
non Muslims and even Muslim majority have no time to research what is exact dress code of Prophet and His companions.
This is same dress code as you have defined to explain the nature of filthy shaikhs of Saudi which is recognized in whole world as identification of Muslim community.Where ever Islamic history and image of Prophet would be shown same dress would be represented.It is found in museums and literature of non Muslims states.
Look I have no objection on your personal point of view but the day any mischievous mullah would read your this article he can choose you to fit for applying blasphemy law.
Nazia says: – July 1, 2010 at 11:10 am exact dress code of Prophet and His companions. This is same dress code as you have defined to explain the nature of filthy shaikhs of Saudi which is recognized in whole world as identification of Muslim community.
MAM: Proper Dress Code is given in Sunnah [Hadith] i.e. no dress code but dress must be decent and hide your private parts otherwise there is no hard and fast rule of Islamic Dress Code. The Thob Arab Muslims nowadays wear also worn by Coptic Christians [also Arabs]. Muslim identity is Quran and Hadith not the dress code otherwise Thob would have been a dress for the Muslims living in Non-Arab Country. By the way you have imprisoned Islam in Arab Dress code. Islam is universal not restricted to the dress code.
NAZIA: Look I have no objection on your personal point of view but the day any mischievous mullah would read your this article he can choose you to fit for applying blasphemy law.
MAM: The article which have been citing as Blasphemous is on Facebook as well as sent to the thousands of members on my elists and I understand what is Blasphemy and what is critical comment on Arab Racism.
Mughal
Human minds work on the basis of diversity.
What other mind can think differently than your observation, you can judge through following example
THE HOLY PROPHET'S DRESSING
1. Colour of Dress: The colours of preference of Rasoolullah (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) were first white, and then, green.
2. Shirts (Kamees) and Robes: Rasoolullah (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) used a single long robe and recommended its use for others; as it covers the major portions of the body.
3. Trousers: The Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) recommended the use of trousers to length of half of the lower portion of the leg. It may however be lengthened above the ankle.
4. Turban and cap: There are a few Traditions (Hadith) discussing the use of the cap and advocating that it should be generally, round and even at the top.
now read your observation in this context
.
Now read what you exactly said on this dress which was liked by Prophet and his companion.
The dress these Arabs wear is only good for following purpose
Arabian Diaper [Shemagh/Igal] for Head and Arabic Envelope for body [Thob]
1 – Intercourse.
2 – Eating like Pigs [they are pigs rather Wild Boars].
3 – Going to Bathroom.
4 – Sleeping.
5 – Farting.
6 – and dying, the dress is so comfortable that they don't need "Kufan" Funeral Clothes and can easily be buried in the same. Their dress is not good for any kind of work.
please read this too
The Holy Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) liked wearing white clothes and said they are the best clothes, your living person should wear them and enshroud your dead in them. [Madarij-un-Nubawah, Shamail-e-Tirmizi].
Now what is your thought that are you eligible for blasphemy laws valid in Pakistan and Saudia.
Nazia says: – July 1, 2010 at 4:07 pm Mughal Human minds work on the basis of diversity. What other mind can think differently than your observation, you can judge through following example – THE HOLY PROPHET’S DRESSING 1. Colour of Dress: The colours of preference of Rasoolullah (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) were first white, and then, green.
MAM: Hadith for the Green color being the favourite color are all Concocted and Weak Hadith.
2. Shirts (Kamees) and Robes:
MAM: Reference?
3. Trousers:
MAM: Reference?
4. Turban and cap: There are a few Traditions (Hadith) discussing the use of the cap and advocating that it should be generally, round and even at the top.
MAM: Reference. Turbans and Cap is and was also worn by Non-Muslims.
now read your observation in this context. Now read what you exactly said on this dress which was liked by Prophet and his companion. The dress these Arabs wear is only good for following purpose.
Arabian Diaper [Shemagh/Igal] for Head and Arabic Envelope for body [Thob]
1 – Intercourse.
2 – Eating like Pigs [they are pigs rather Wild Boars].
3 – Going to Bathroom.
4 – Sleeping.
5 – Farting.
6 – and dying, the dress is so comfortable that they don’t need “Kufan” Funeral Clothes and can easily be buried in the same. Their dress is not good for any kind of work.
please read this too The Holy Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) liked wearing white clothes and said they are the best clothes, your living person should wear them and enshroud your dead in them. [Madarij-un-Nubawah, Shamail-e-Tirmizi].
MAM: Differentiate between Shemag/Igal and Turban. Shemag and Igal are also worn by Jews [Bani Israel] try to search more through google that the head gear mentioned above and Turban and cap mentioned in Hadith are two different things. Blasphemy is related with the direct insult to the person of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] and please differentiate between the Cultural Habits of Arabs and Sunnah.
Nazia: Now what is your thought that are you eligible for blasphemy laws valid in Pakistan and Saudia.
MAM: If you have a itch for getting a Fatwa against me then take the print of that post and distribute in Madressah. because i know how to defend myself.
Nazia says: – July 1, 2010 at 4:07 pm Mughal Human minds work on the basis of diversity. THE HOLY PROPHET’S DRESSING Now what is your thought that are you eligible for blasphemy laws valid in Pakistan and Saudia.
========================
Dear Ms. Nazia,
Go to my blog and click the FEEDJIT LIVE TRAFFIC MAP and see for yourself that Posts and Blog is being read in KSA. Now go to the market and get all 6 Major Books of Hadith including the very First one the Mawatta Imam Malik, and also get Tafsir Ibn Kathir with any Genuine Biography of Prophet [PBUH]. Do buy any book related with Arab Culture. And after reading all these sources particularly the Kitaabul Libas [Chapter on Dress] in every Hadith book then tell me what was the dress of Kuffar-e-Makkah and Mushrikeen-e-Makkah [Idolaters and Polytheists of Makkah before the Conquest of Makkah]. You may find that Muslims and Non-Muslims used to wear same kind of dress [same in appearance], the only difference was that the Muslims used to wear cap inside their turban, the length of their clothes used to be above the ankles etc.etc. The dress code in Islam is very simple [clean (pure- Paak), decent (means hiding your private parts and those parts too which can give anyone wrong ideas] so don't make the Arab Cultural Dress as an Islamic Dress because even the Arabs cannot wear their national dress in those regions where temperature runs in Minus degrees.
Criticizing Arabs or Aal-e-Saud and their Muttawwas have nothing to do with Blasphemy. Above criteria of Piety in Islam is Taqwa [Fear of Allah] and there is no place of Racial or Lingual Supremacy of Arabs on Non Arabs or vice versa.
Ref: O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware. [AL-HUJRAAT (THE PRIVATE APARTMENTS, THE INNER APARTMENTS) Chapter 49 Verse 13]
Do check the last sermon of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] which is almost in every Hadith book.
Trust me I have no itch if you more write on something abnormal like that which comes in circle of nuisance mockery for any community.
Now something about KSA I think it is most hypocrite state in Islamic world representing as the guardians of Islam It is actually big set back to whole Muslim community that such kind of dynasty is controlling you through natural oil wealth and having sacred places in their custody.This state control people's emotions through religious harassment and that trend is dominant in all islamic states where double and triple standard of living is provided to majority highly against the basic principles of Islam to run stat matters.
Look Mughal Holy Prophet was a pure arab that is why his dress ,marital approach, eating habits, social orders , his way of living represent the true arab culture.He and in Quran there were not hints of any life patterns of people towards pacific Asia and Latin America etc.
His and his companions 'appearance all over the world is represented in same way which I presented.
You never wear Arab dress including jullaba or abbeyya or whatever you say.It is very easy to wear even in minus temperature and windy areas with some accessories.I have worn it and consider it more comfortable and more appropriate from covering point of view than our shalwar kammez and thin duppata which represent our subcontinent style.
These are not worn when arabs stay indoors and tight fitted dress which is all time wear under this robe is preferred in cold weathers.Mini trousers are part of Arabic dress, if you want I can send you and you would find it more comfortable than our traditional shalwar and kammez.
Oh yes head covering with typical styles/colour for both men and women were ordered to created clear distinction among kaffir mushriks and muslims living in same vicinity.
Later on this head covering was turned into face covering as muslin and nonmuslim living in this areas were extremely fond of beautiful women and they were all time ready to snatch beauties under beast custody using all power they had .
I really have no time to read 6 major volumes of Hadiath and try to pass that life which is not synchronized with my culture.I know the values of respect for all.I am against shrines but I regularly give pick and drop services to my old uncle and aunts who want to go there.I even never refused my old aunts to take them in pirs for curing black magic which I always mock.As I don't want to hurt the faith of any body .
For people's whatever their faith, it is their whole life and we have to respect you who sure with close friends and people who have courage to listen something bitter we talked like that as I am talking to you.
God forbid me if I take your abnormal comments to any den of Mullah and demand fatwa like that.
I am just showing you as you are favour of blasphemy laws and I am against its implementation in illiterate and selfish society.
Nothing is itching me but showing you different aspect of your ridiculous comments is not a difficult task for me,
Nazia says: – July 2, 2010 at 1:57 pm Look Mughal Holy Prophet was a pure arab that is why his dress ,marital approach, eating habits, social orders , his way of living represent the true arab culture. He and in Quran there were not hints of any life patterns of people towards pacific Asia and Latin America etc. His and his companions ‘appearance all over the world is represented in same way which I presented.
===================
Dear Ms. Nazia,
You are again wrong again no doubt Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] was born in Arabia but he was a Blessings for the whole mankind not just Arabs.
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلَّا رَحْمَةً لِّلْعَالَمِينَ
We sent thee not save as a mercy for the peoples. [AL-ANBIYA (THE PROPHETS) Chapter 21 Verse 107]
Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] was also not Pure Arab i.e. Bedouin [Ref: Al Raheeq Al Maktoum by Safiur Rehman Mubarakpuri – do read the book and check the bloodline of Prophet Ismail [PBUH] – All those Prophets [PBUT] who were given Books [Commandments] are linked with Prophet Abraham [PBUH] and Prophet Abraham [PBUH] wasn't an Arab. He did visited Arabia with his son Ismail [PBUH] to re-construct the Ka'bah.
NAZIA: I really have no time to read 6 major volumes of Hadiath and try to pass that life which is not synchronized with my culture.
MAM: If you have no time to read Hadith then your opinion on Islam and Culture would be your personal opinion not the genuine one as defined in Sunnah.
Nazia: I am against shrines but I regularly give pick and drop services to my old uncle and aunts who want to go there.I even never refused my old aunts to take them in pirs for curing black magic which I always mock.As I don’t want to hurt the faith of any body .
MAM: I am dead against such Shrines and Pirs but I am also against Killing People sitting in there rather it would be better to preach and convey the message of Tawheed [Monotheism] to them and advise them to not to visit Shrines and Pirs for the solution of their problems because it is Shirk [Polytheism] and instead of helping your Uncle/Aunt in their Bida'at (innovation) [and issuing Fatwa of Blasphemy against me] you should not cooperate with them.
Nazia: Nothing is itching me but showing you different aspect of your ridiculous comments is not a difficult task for me,
MAM: May be ridiculous for you but I stand by comment.
This is a good discussion. As a non-Muslim, let me shed some light on this discussion. I will try to be nice.
1. It is obvious that Muslims only care about Mohammed. Anybody can slander their god Allah and they do nothing. However, any criticism of their prophet makes then go beserk. This is not a modern development. Many 20th century European writers visiting North Africa and India would comment on this.
2. Muslims are ignorant of the basic tenants of their religion. They want to believe that Islam teaches what they would like it to represent rather than what is actually found in the Quran and ahadeeth. From your comments above it is obvious that Muslims are always telling each other how wrong the other is about theology.
3. Islam is not about "peace" or justice, nor does it "stand against discrimination or oppression." It is not about "human dignity or a just society", unless you want to exclude the relationship of Muslims with non-Muslims. These things sound really nice, but you have to be very creative to find these concepts and you must ignore a large protion of what Islam's writings teach. You cannot reconcile justice with the attacks on non-Muslims and the continuous evil words about infidels, unless you pretend that non-Muslims don't exist or that they are all evil by nature. That might be an acceptable idea except that Muslims are always accusing each other of "unbelief" or worse. Note also that almost all blasphemy charges are done by Muslims against Muslims. Think of that!
4. Islam means submission. It is about a person submitting to the values and teachings of the Quran. It is about the life and teaching of Mohammad. The fact is that the message is full of contradictions. You can find nice things in the Quran and inspiring events in the life of Mohammad. You can also find some very vile things said about non-Muslims in the Quran and the traditions tell us that Mohammad attacked his neighbors dozens of times, plundered them and enslaved men women and children. These were not in self-defense, contrary to what Muslims tell each other.
5. For the most part, I see a recognition that Muslims have failed to find justice and peace. The problem, to me, is that they say its because they do not follow the real true message of Islam. I think that truth is exactly the opposite. There is no justice and peace because they do follow the true message of Islam. Messages, plural. Thus both the nice kind good Muslim and the evil killer are both following Islam. Who are you to say which is wrong when both can proclaim that ownership of the message and point to verses in the Quran and traditions to support their claim? How can a Muslim condemn an attack on a mosque if their prophet did the same, as recorded in the hadith and Quran?
6. Well that is it. Nazia, Al and others, I like your writings but you are limited by the fact that you write within a Muslim mentality and are restricted to certain attitudes. By necessity you cannot explore the idea that Islam is imperfect for that would be blasphemy. Thus you must find an explanation of these issues without considering the integrity and logic of your source. Good luck on that!
Kactuz.
PS: "correct me if i am wrong". Ok, you are wrong, Mughal. Yes, people were punished for slandering Islam's prophet.
Jay kactuz says: – July 1, 2010 at 12:06 am
2. Muslims are ignorant of the basic tenants of their religion. They want to believe that Islam teaches what they would like it to represent rather than what is actually found in the Quran and ahadeeth. From your comments above it is obvious that Muslims are always telling each other how wrong the other is about theology.
MAM: How about the same in Christianity. Muslims have been ordered by Allah to keep yourself on constant check and keep warning other from doing bad [peacefully] and it has nothing to do with the message of Islam when Muslims dissent with other violently rather this is the violation of islam itself.
3. Islam is not about “peace” or justice, nor does it “stand against discrimination or oppression.” It is not about “human dignity or a just society”, unless you want to exclude the relationship of Muslims with non-Muslims.
MAM: Islam means Attaining peace by submitting to the will of Allah and Islam's main theme is Justice and before raising finger please check European History when Churches were Ruling the Roost.
JS: You cannot reconcile justice with the attacks on non-Muslims and the continuous evil words about infidels, unless you pretend that non-Muslims don’t exist or that they are all evil by nature.
MAM: Support your allegation with Quranic Text and Hadith where Muslims have been ordered to attack Non Muslims or insult their religion.
Rather Islam says:
لاَ إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ فَمَنْ يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىَ لاَ انفِصَامَ لَهَا وَاللّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ
There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false dieties and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold, which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower {The Cow – II (Soora All-Baqara) Verse 256}
ادْعُ إِلِى سَبِيلِ رَبِّكَ بِالْحِكْمَةِ وَالْمَوْعِظَةِ الْحَسَنَةِ وَجَادِلْهُم بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِمَن ضَلَّ عَن سَبِيلِهِ وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ
Call unto the way of thy Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation, and reason with them in the better way. Lo! thy Lord is Best Aware of him who strayeth from His way, and He is Best Aware of those who go aright. [AN-NAHL (THE BEE) Chapter 16 Verse 125]
وَلَوْ شَاء رَبُّكَ لآمَنَ مَن فِي الأَرْضِ كُلُّهُمْ جَمِيعًا أَفَأَنتَ تُكْرِهُ النَّاسَ حَتَّى يَكُونُواْ مُؤْمِنِينَ
And if thy Lord willed, all who are in the earth would have believed together. Wouldnt thou (MOHAMMAD) compel men until they are believers? {Jonah – X (Soora Yunus) Verse 99}.
اتَّبِعْ مَا أُوحِيَ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ لا إِلَـهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ وَأَعْرِضْ عَنِ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ مَا أَشْرَكُواْ وَمَا جَعَلْنَاكَ عَلَيْهِمْ حَفِيظًا وَمَا أَنتَ عَلَيْهِم بِوَكِيلٍ
Had Allah willed, they had not been idolatrous. We have not set thee as a keeper over them, nor art thou responsible for them. Revile not those unto whom they they pray beside Allah lest they wrongfully revile Allah through ignorance. Thus unto every nation have We made their deed seem fair. Then unto their Lord is their return, and He will tell them what they used to do (Cattle – VI (Soora Al Anam) Verse 107, 108).
فَذَكِّرْ إِنَّمَا أَنتَ مُذَكِّرٌ
لَّسْتَ عَلَيْهِم بِمُصَيْطِرٍ
إِلَّا مَن تَوَلَّى وَكَفَرَ
فَيُعَذِّبُهُ اللَّهُ الْعَذَابَ الْأَكْبَرَ
Remind them, for thou art but a remembrancer, Thou art not at all a warder over them. But whoso is averse and disbelieveth, Allah will punish him with direst punishment. [AL-GHASHIYA (THE OVERWHELMING, THE PALL) Chapter 88 Verse 21, 22, 23, 24]
JS: That might be an acceptable idea except that Muslims are always accusing each other of “unbelief” or worse. Note also that almost all blasphemy charges are done by Muslims against Muslims. Think of that!
MAM: Agreed to some extent.
4. Islam means submission. It is about a person submitting to the values and teachings of the Quran. It is about the life and teaching of Mohammad. The fact is that the message is full of contradictions. You can find nice things in the Quran and inspiring events in the life of Mohammad. You can also find some very vile things said about non-Muslims in the Quran and the traditions tell us that Mohammad attacked his neighbors dozens of times, plundered them and enslaved men women and children. These were not in self-defense, contrary to what Muslims tell each other.
MAM: Please give example with the reference.
PS: “correct me if i am wrong”. Ok, you are wrong, Mughal. Yes, people were punished for slandering Islam’s prophet.
MAM: Where did say that people were not punished for insulting Prohet Mohammad [PBUH], I am a firm believer of Blasphemy and its implementation on those Muslims as well who utter blasphemous comment [that include Mullahs]
I was not to write in this blog until I read Jack Koctuz. He has put forth some points to ponder for us. Many interesting deliberations have also been forwarded e.g. when a muslim commits blasphemy, nothing happens, but if a non-muslim commits the same he is subjected to death penalty.
But first thing first, Mr. Koctuz, you are viewing the whole scenario from a narrow angle. People forget about themselves while criticizing others. Blashphemy Act passed through National Assembly is a political move enacted as far back as General Zia regime who was darling to Western powers 'cause he engaged Pakistan in proxy war against the then Soviet Union. Millions of dollars were fed by USA to form madressahs in Pakistan that taught Jihad is the integral part of Islam. Now, the west wants the turn around, as if Islamic teachings (right or wrong) is a disco club, change the disc any time. Suffice to say, mushroom of terrorist groups surfacing in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq are the natural plants of the seeds sown way back. Let me tell you loud and clear, not a single instances of blasphemy actually occured in Pakistan. All the cases of blasphemy filed in courts were having ulterior motives behind them to settle the score. At the most, you can say the Blasphemy Act is bad in the society, I do agree. Period. However, in the present circumstances when religious groups (powered by West in the past) are dominant it is not wise to repeal the act, more so, when the country is passing through a delicate phase due war against terrorism. Way back Huntington wrote a controversial phrase in his book Clash of Two Civilizations "Islam has bloody borders". yes we do have bloody borders when we are deprived of our lands (Palestine now Israel). We know for sure that we have been horn locked with jews (we never hated them before the creation of Israel)with purpose. When oil was dug before World War II, West apprehended rise of Muslims (their memory is real sharp). With the fundings of Rothschild dynasty, Israel was created right in the heart of arab countries such that all powerful oil money would be wasted in wars and conflicts with Israel. How true was West's think tank!
Billions of Darood & Salaam are offered from all over the world every passing second repeat second. Is there any other soul that can match an iota of stature of our Prophet Muhammad Sallallaho Wa Aalehey Wassallum – none. So you can well imagine how sentimental we are on this issue. Regarding Allah, the Creator, the Merciful the Beneficent, He has assured us that he would decide each and every matter Himself of which He is perfectly capable, so nothing to worry about by us.
Galileo was condemned by Churches and was put in solitary confinement where he died miserably. His only fault was that he put forward Helio-centric theory which was against the teaching of Bible. Do you remember this?
Jay Kactuz: Of course if i call myself a muslim than obviously i belief it is the right path. If i question the authenticity of the Quran & Hadith than i am not really a muslim, am i? I will ALWAYS look towards the Quran & Hadith for guidance, not towards historians writing centuries after the Prophet (PBUH) & with obvious biases against him & muslims.
I think Islam is the most logical religion. If you are an atheist or agnostic than there is no use in debating this. But if you are not than than you aren't really in a position to be lecturing muslims on their beliefs. Followers of all the major religions in the world have equally & many times much worse records.
Whatever problems related to terrorism in the world today have a political angle & it is only some people with their own agendas who want to force their opinion that this is a clash of civilizations and the problem is Islam.
The fact is that Afghanistan did not attack & occupy America. America attacked Afghanistan. Iraq did not attack & occupy America. America did. Palestinian Muslims & Christians are not the occupiers. Israel is.
The propaganda of the west is so effective that it colors the entire narrative. So it is conveniently forgotten who the initial aggressor was & even the right of people to protect their life & property from outside invaders is branded terrorism.
There is a long history of false propaganda & creating biased historical narratives against the Prophet(PBUH). This is nothing new. But even amongst those who do not accept him as a Prophet are people who do admire him for his achievements.
According to Reverand Bosworth Smith;
“Head of the state as well as the Church, he was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope’s pretensions, and Caesar without legions of Caesar, without a standing army, without a body-guard, without a police force, without a fixed revenue. If ever a man ruled by a right divine, it was Muhammad, for he had all powers without their supports. He cared not for the dressings of power. The simplicity of his private life was in keeping with his public life.” (‘Muhammad and Muhammadanism’ London, 1874)
According to Micheal Hart;
“My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the secular and religious level. …… It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history”. (‘The 100, A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons In History, ‘New York, 1978.)
According to Alphonse de LaMartaine;
“If the greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astonishing results are the three criteria of a human genius, who could dare compare any great man in history with Muhammad”. (‘Hisorie de la Turquie’, Paris 1854)
“Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Conqueror of Ideas, Restorer of Rational beliefs….. The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?” (‘Hisorie de la Turquie’, Paris 1854)
According to Mahatma Ghandhi;
“It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission”. (‘Statement published in ‘Young India’, 1924)
According to Jules Masserman;
“Perhaps the greatest leader of all times was Muhammad, who combined all the three functions”. (‘Who were history’s great leaders?’, in TIME Magazine, July 15, 1974)
According to Sir George Bernad Shaw;
“I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him (Prophet Muhammad) – the wonderful man and in my opinion for from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Savior of Humanity”. ‘The Genuine Islam’, ‘Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936).
You can believe whatever historian you want to belief & whatever narrative you want to believe but you can do nothing about the fact that about a quarter of the world's population accepts him as the last Prophet of God & the perfect human being (PBUH).
A1
IT wont take too much time to get the comments of top non Muslim scholars/leaders who spoke against Prophet and Quran.Their all observations are based on thorough research.I am not in position to quote even few of them as it would generate heat in the debate and that is not my aim.
You are Muslim so you picked those which touch your soul and faith.
The leaders whom you quoted ,praised Prophet and his acts to spread harmony among communities.None of them ever thought of leaving their original faith to be Muslim after delivering such quotes.This is indication of true leadership that they dont throw mud on faith and ideals of each other but encourage people to stick to their faith as per their spiritual need.
This quality is quite absent in Muslims and its leadership .The deficiency in this attitude is made up by making killer blasphemy laws so that no voice should be raised against Islam, Prophet and leaders of Muslim state.
Nazia: What you are saying has nothing to do with my point. The majority of the worlds population is not muslim, which means they do not accept Muhammad (PBUH) as a prophet. If they or their leaders have adverse comments about our Prophet (PBUH) there is nothing surprising about it.
The jews have never accepted Hazrat Eesa (PBUH) as a Prophet. Their historical accounts will obviously be biased & slanderous against him. That does not prove anything.
If to you as a muslim historical accounts are more important & well-researched than what the Quran or Hadith say that is your call – historical accounts that you think are well researched that even some western scholars today admit were heavily biased & presented a distorted view of history.
The true sign of a persons greatness is when even your detractors are forced to admit to your qualities.
If you read my post i have said that slandering the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is not something new to this day and age. It has been the practice since the time of the Prophet himself. The Kuffar thought it was easiest to malign the character of the Prophet (PBUH) to stop the spread of Islam. But unfortunately for them the truth is what stood out in the end. Even his detractors used to call him Sadiq & Amin. Hundreds of millions of people around the world do not love him for nothing.
As a muslim for me he was the greatest human being ever. Period. Even aside from that i do not think any other person has had so much influence & is still loved just as deeply as he was 1400 years ago.
khalid humayun says:July 1, 2010 at 12:34 pm Galileo was condemned by Churches and was put in solitary confinement where he died miserably. His only fault was that he put forward Helio-centric theory which was against the teaching of Bible. Do you remember this?
===================
Al says: July 1, 2010 at 5:18 pm The propaganda of the west is so effective that it colors the entire narrative. So it is conveniently forgotten who the initial aggressor was & even the right of people to protect their life & property from outside invaders is branded terrorism.
================
Excellent replies.
Dear Mr. Jay kactuz.
How conveniently you forget Spanish Inquisition, Crusaders who mistreated their own fellows [ For Further Reading and for ref: Moors in Spain by Stanley Lane-Poole] and above all
do check the numbers of dead, injured and displaced in Two Great Wars of 20st Century [UN Figures] and then compare it with the numbers of those who died, injured and displaced during the battles fought within the life time of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] and even after three generations after him [Be warned in advance before quoting any ref from Islamic History books or reference from any Orientalist like William Muir on Muslims and Prophet Mohammad (PBUH)]
A1
I am just replying in your terms only direction is opposite.
We are discussing blasphemy and its influence in any society.
You are right that
The jews have never accepted Hazrat Eesa (PBUH) as a Prophet
That is why Jews faced persecution from Christians for centuries.Holocaust was worst form of oppression which jews faced from Christians.
So what we learn from worst examples of history.
One thing I would tell you that in this modern world Islam is in danger because of custodians of Islam who are actually responsible of bringing extremism in Muslim countries.
You say you are extremely in love with Prophet That is a sentiment of an ordinary Muslim in which he/she passes his/her life but if this love of Prophet cant hold us on a same platform as one ummah then what kind of example we are giving to outer world.Sunnis shias, ahmediays or other sects all claim to be followers of Prophet, all time ready to kill each other on the name of this love.
Loving someone is not name of passions only which we can multiply with the passage of time .It is serious responsibility that we own after declaring that Mohammed(pbuh) is our ideal human being.
After this declaration no choice is left in our lives except to follow his way of living which were simple,peace loving and based on principles of Islam.
I think people dont love Mohammed and his legacy but pose to be love with him or in frank way it can be said they flirt with name of Islam and Mohammed.
In flirting process people are acting in a way that superficially shows greater intimacy with the lover for passing good time or posing to be true followers of religious icons.This is some kind of decorative love which we want to present only but when there is need to behave and act like true followers we indulge ourselves in selfish deals for worldly desires.here all love of ideals vanish and personal interests dominant on our so called love stance.
How many muslims in Islamic society follow the true life style of Prophet.As a true lover have you followed his legacy of marrying to widow, taking care of FAMILY orphans and poor around you, or always speak truth, act like ameen or take care of your moral values in line of duty.
Oh yes these qualities of Momin appears in our people when they become old and dependent on God 's help, other wise in youth time all have live human ideals in the form of bosses or influential people around them who can give them worldly benefits.
So Muslim community badly lacks practicality of true spirit of Islam.
Claiming to be lover of Prophet has become an old decorative badge which we proudly use to show that we are true Muslims but our living styles contradicts what we say. Our love affair deals should represent our sense of responsibility in which there is no place for multiple compromises on the name of excuses and it is picture of true love to your love ones.
khalid humayun says: – July 1, 2010 at 12:34 pm Blashphemy Act passed through National Assembly is a political move enacted as far back as General Zia regime who was darling to Western powers ’cause he engaged Pakistan in proxy war against the then Soviet Union.
=========================
100% Correct: Ronald Reagan, Afghan Mujahideen, Talibans & Royal Mess. http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/03/ronald-r…
Hakeem Dhakkan,
So if Maududi said something against M. Ali Jinnah, then does it make him Kafir? or do you consider Maududi to be committing blasphemy?
You should check this site:
http://www.thecult.info/
Absolutely. Anyone with such treacherous attitude towards cause of Muslims of India deserves to be treated as traitor of Islam along with his jamaat-ghair islami. Him and his jamaat caused numerous Muslim lives to be lost and him and his jamaat deserves no sympathy.
Allah choose Quaid-e-Azam to make Mumlakat-e-Khudadaad Pakistan and Muadudi went against the will of Allah. Maududi was no scholar of anything, otherwise he would have known the right path.
Hakeem: According to edicts of the religious authorities of sects that the majority of Muslims in Pakistan follow (Barelvi, Deobandi), Jinnah wasn't even a Muslim.
How do you reconcile this fact?
Confusion of Mawdudi?
Same Mawdudi says;
“In my opinion the person who criticizes the Sahaabah {Copmanions of the Prophet Mohammad – PBUH} is not only a flagrant sinner (Faasiq), but his Imaan (Faith) is also in doubt. [Tarjumanul Quran August 1961]"
Abul-A'la Maududi: wrote an introduction to the book, "Ar-Riddah bain al-Ams wa al-Yaum" In it was written, regarding the Imami Ja'fari Shia, "despite their moderate views (relative to other shi'ia sects), they are swimming in disbelief like white bloodcells in blood or like fish in water."
READ HOW JAMAT-E-ISLAMI'"DEVIANT FOUNDER" MAWDUDI INSULTS THE COMPANIONS OF PROPHET MOHAMMAD [PBUH]
For example Khomeini once made a statement which was published in the Tehran times (Kitaab be Noujawanaan – P8) that if he conquers Madina Munawwarah, he will remove the two idols (Hadhrat Abu Bakr and Hadhrat Umar (May Allah be pleased with them) besides Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him). I am certain that no believer will accept such a statement against the great luminaries of Islam. Brother Amin, are we then to condemn only Khomeini and condone Mawdudi knowing well that Mawdudi was a close friend of Khomeini and was sympathetic to his course. In a book titled, 'Two brothers – Maududi and Khomeini' page 129, the following statement of Dr Ahmad Farouk Maududi (son of Abul-A'ala Maududi) was published in Roz Naame, Lahore – 29 September 1979, "Allama Khomeini had a very old and close relationship with Abba Jaan (father). Aayaatullah Khomeini translated his (fathers) books in Farsi and included it as a subject in Qum. Allama Khomeini met my father in 1963 during Hajj and my father's wish was to create a revolutionary in Pakistan similar to Iran. He was concerned about the success of the Iranian revolution till his last breath.' The book has provided the original quotes from Mawdudi’s book with the editions and page number. Mudodi Khumeni do bhai, Moudoodi and Khumeni two Brothers http://www.scribd.com/doc/15702018/Mudodi-Khumeni…
Kactuz
Read my comments these are usually based on heterogeneity of society for implying Blasphemy laws.
I cant talk about Islamic society or from visionary level of Muslim as I couldnt see any live example of true Islamic setups which we found in our books and history literature.
On individual basis we can find some examples but blasphemy law is not allowed to be handled by individuals and only state authority can implement it which should have proved its credibility in terms of justice for all.
So this little thing is not coming in mind of people who are favoring this blasphemy law as no true Islamic set up is available , rulers and strong groups are using this law for controlling herds of humans under their domain.The states who strictly follow this Blaspheme law are mostly under tyrannical rules where photos of ameers and shaikh have to install on all public and official places.In those countries it is highly objectionable to talk against royal ruling families so what is it we are expecting from such rulers that why they favor blasphemy laws in their respective states.
When followers of Allah and His Prophet who lead Muslim communities themselves deny basic orders of Islam as we see in dominating Muslim states, it should be placed under blasphemy but no Islamic state and its qazi ever dare to challenge the wrong laws of ruling groups.
So such laws which only influence weak genders and minorities in any state should be avoided to implement as it is mostly applied by brutal rulers to weaken the collective energy of any society under the threat of religious harassment
http://www.commongroundnews.org/article.php?id=28…
Then these "religious authorities" aka mullahs should get the hell out of Quaid-e-Azam's Pakistan and should not have come over from India in the first place.
In the very least we will not be dictated by these Mullahs on how Pakistan of Quaid-e-Azam is to be run.
Than you should really study history & about Jinnah's vision & his life. And you should take one side – the mullahs or Jinnah.
Jinnah was fighting for the political & economic rights of Muslims. This is pretty evident from his speech to the parliament that he did not want religion to be the business of the state. Plus his choice of Foreign Minister & Chief Justice were both Non-Muslims which really shows what type of Pakistan he had in mind.
When people like Maulana Maudidi quote his earlier speeches to prove their point, they are forgetting he was a lawyer. He was fighting the case of Muslims & he used every argument that he could – which is what lawyers do. And that is the reason he had to give that speech in parliament after partition to really clarify what type of Pakistan he envisioned.
Jinnah had all but agreed to the Cabinet Mission Plan in 1946 that would have created semi-autonomous muslim provinces within a United India. It was Gandhi & Nehru that derailed that plan. If he wanted a theocracy why would he ever agree on any such compromise?
This does not have anything to do with ordinary mullahs. These edicts are from Muftis from each sect – both Deobandi & Barelvi who declare each other as well as Shia as Kafirs. The Shia ulema i am sure also have similar fatwas against sunnis. This doesn't have anything to do with being from India or Pakistan either.
Now if Jinnah wanted a theocracy, than why would he be fighting for a Sunni/Deobandi theocracy? Shouldn't he be aiming to set up a Shia theocracy – something like we see in Iran?
This may explain so much emphasis on Blasphemy;
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-…
One follower of such Mullahs came to Quaid and said he would not vote for Quaid as Quaid was not Muslim in his eyes. Quaid said "Fair enough vote for Ghandi, he's Muslim all right.".
And this is the fact that many of these Mullahs had no shame or reservation in following Indian Congress and Ghandi as their leaders. This shows these fatwas were politically motivated. Even now if Mullah gets nothing, government of woman is haram, and if he gets diesel permit all is well under same feminine government. We need to stop giving importance to these political Mullahs and their politically motivated (read halwa maanda) fatwas. These Mullahs and their blind followers have a big share in ruining this country.
Hakeem: That they have a big share in ruining our country i agree & not just our country but their regressive thinking has kept Muslims back around the world & fighting amongst themselves.
But these are no fatwas by politically active or motivated Mullahs. Aamir Mughal can give you loads of references for these.
"But these are no fatwas by politically active or motivated Mullahs."
Most (all) Mullahs are political these days, if they are not active in politics per se then get funds/lands etc for madrassas, mosques etc. It's all politics these days aka halwa maanda.
A real spiritual leader would stay away form worldly gains as per traditions of true Imams.
* get funds/lands etc for madrassas, mosques etc. = then they get funds/lands etc for madrassas, mosques etc. from governments
Pakistan’s Medieval Constitution
http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2010/06/26/pakis…
This news although in a different context, explains why justice can not be had in false blasphemy cases (most/all cases are false as far as we know), as extremists can exert pressure on courts big time;
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/908…
Hakeem Dhakkan,
So according to you logic when Mullahs declared Jinnah as Kafir then they should quit the land of Jinnah instead of migrating to land of Jinnah..
hmmm…
In similar way since Qadianis consider Muslims as Kafirs then they should quit calling themselves as Muslims because Muslims do not believe that Ghulam Kafir Qadiani was a prophet
Also can you elaborate what other peoples should do who curse Muhammad Ali Jinnah and who are not followers of Maududi? should they also migrate too? like people of Jeay Sindh?
NO the truth is, we Muslims do not need a certificate from Kafir Qadianis to live in Pakistan or not.
Amir Mughal,
First of all let me make a disclaimer, I have never read Maududi and have never been a follower of his or his jamat.
But here are few points I would like to make:
In many of your comments you pretend that you hate Maududi because he uttered some bad remarks about the Sahaba. So I went ahead and read your full comments.
Useless, as your links and references are, the only thing you mentioned was that he praised Ayatullah Khomaini and boasted of good friendship with him. Since khomeni uttered bad words against the Sahaba, then according to your logic Maududi should be held responsible….WOW what a logic.
I wasted my time reading your complete comment, expecting that you would write how Maududi dis-repected the Sahaba but your logic is to accuse him for his association with Khomeni.
So according to you, a sunni can not have friendship with a shia….WOW!!!
You bad mouth Maududi but what about Khomeni? You don't dare on that…why this hypcricy?
Dear Awan Sahab,
Don't waste your time do read what I have compiled on Khomeini on also read what I have compiled on every kind of Mullah.
So according to you, a sunni can not have friendship with a shia….WOW!!! [Awan]
====
Where did I say that?
Useless, as your links and references are, the only thing you mentioned was that he praised Ayatullah Khomaini and boasted of good friendship with him. Since khomeni uttered bad words against the Sahaba, then according to your logic Maududi should be held responsible [Awan]
===========
Read Khomeini's Books "Kashf Al Israr" "Tehreer O Waseela" and Hukoomat-e-Islamiya [Persian] and then judge yourself Mawdudi's praise for him.
Do read and research before opening your mouth.
Ok, so let me see where in your remarks have you used atleast the same words for Khomeni as you have for Maududi.
or show me in your comments posted above where you described the crimes of Maududi?
Yes Maududi was the one of those people who gave hard time to Zulfiqar Bhutto, is that the reason you are after him?
awan says: – July 2, 2010 at 10:04 am Ok, so let me see where in your remarks have you used atleast the same words for Khomeni as you have for Maududi. or show me in your comments posted above where you described the crimes of Maududi?
awan says: July 2, 2010 at 9:46 am Maududi because he uttered some bad remarks about the Sahaba.
========================
Mawdudi not only Insulted Sahaba Kiram [May Allah be pleased with all of them] but Prophet [PBUT] as well:
The Mawdudi Calamity! By Maulana Yusuf Ludhiyanwi (RA)
http://www.central-mosque.com/aqeedah/Mawdudi.htm
The writer of the article, well-recognised by the non-Arab as well as Arab Ulama and a well recognised expert in Firqa-e-Baatila (deviated sects), Moulana Muhammad Yusuf Ludhianwi (RA), has maintained his intellectual honesty by fulfilling his scholarly responsibility of pointing out (criticizing) Mr. Mawdudi. The writer is concerned that Mr. Mawdudi has attacked the very fiber and backbone of Islam by criticizing the illustrious Prophets and building a wall between the Ummah and the Sahaaba (Radhiallaahu Anhum). In his constitution, Mr. Mawdudi says, ‘No human should be made a measure of truth besides Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam).’. but Allah Ta’ala clearly declares the Sahaaba (Radhiallaahu Anhum) as a measure of truth in the innumerable verses of the Qur’aan NS in particular, Chapter 2 verse 13 and chapter 48 (Fath), Verse 29.
Yes Maududi was the one of those people who gave hard time to Zulfiqar Bhutto, is that the reason you are after him?
awan says: – July 2, 2010 at 10:04 am Yes Maududi was the one of those people who gave hard time to Zulfiqar Bhutto, is that the reason you are after him?
===================
Also read what I have compiled on Bhutto [both Senior and Junior].
awan says: – July 2, 2010 at 10:04 am So according to you, a sunni can not have friendship with a shia….WOW!!!
======================
Where did I say that?
awan says: – July 2, 2010 at 10:04 am Ok, so let me see where in your remarks have you used atleast the same words for Khomeni as you have for Maududi. or show me in your comments posted above where you described the crimes of Maududi? Yes Maududi was the one of those people who gave hard time to Zulfiqar Bhutto, is that the reason you are after him?
====================
Lets assume that I bad mouth Mawdudi because he had given tough time to Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. But why the below mentioned "disliked" Mawdudi? Are/were they all Bhutto supporters?
Even Mullahs were allergic to Mawdudi and Mawdudi, Jamat-e-Islami and their supporter’s Kharji Ideology!
Most of the Blasphemous Narrations about Sihaba Kiram which are often quoted conveniently are basically in Khilafat O Malookiyat by Mawdudi who never knew the Status of Prophets [PBUT] and Companions [May Allah be pleased wwith all of them].
Mawdudi quoted Blasphemous narration after narration from Alleged Islamic History without even verifying the authenticity and concocted the so-called Political Islamist Ideology.
Do read Khilafat o Malookiyat [original version and several issues of Tarjumnaul Quran] by Mawdudi Calamity again and differentiate between History and Tabbarrah. Mawdudi, his deviant books and his deviants followers of Jamat-e-Islami were thoroughly exposed by not leading Deobandi and Wahabi Maulvis read the following books on Mawdudi’s Tabbarah on Sihaba Kiram and Prophets [PBUT].
There is book written “Khilafat wa Malookiyat Ki Tareekhi Aur Shariee Haisiyat [Authenticity and Relity of Caliphat and Kingdom by Mawdudui] by Hafiz Salahuddin Yousuf [Editor of Weekly Eitisaam, Lahore Pakistan , he is a Salafi Scholar and if you get that book then please note that in preface following Deobandi and even Barelvi Scholars praised the above book on the refutation ofr Mawdudi's Deviant and Blasphemic Beliefs regarding the Companions of Prophet Mohammad.
1 – Mufti Muhammad Shafi Usmani [Deobandi]
2 – Justice Taqi Usmani [Deobandi]
3 – Late. Maulana Ziauddin Islahi [Daar ul Musanifeen Azam Garh India]
4 – Late. Maulana Yousuf Ludhiyanvi [Binnori Town – Deobandi] – Refuted Mawdudi in letter entitled: “Tanqeed aur Haqqe Tanqeed” which appeared in Bayanaat – Karachi
5 – Late. Maulana Ghulamullah Khan [Rawalpindi – Deobandi]
6 – Late. Dr Israr Ahmed [Former Deputy of Mawdudi]
7 – Late. Maulana Ameen Ahsan Islahi [Former number 2 of Mawdudi]
8 – Late. Agha Shoorish Kashmiri [Noted Scholar and Journalist]
9 – Late. Maulana Manzoor Naimani [One of the founder of Jamat-e-Islami and Deobandi scholar and also refuted Mawdudi in his book on Islamic Revolution of Iran]
10 – Safi ur Rahman Mubarakpuri [Author of Prophet Mohammad – PBUH's biography Ar Raheeq Al Makhtoom and he is an Indian Scholar and a Salafi]
11 – Late. Yousuf Saleem Chishti [Deobandi Sufi Scholar]
12 – Late. Maulana Abul Hasan Nadvi [Former Head of Darul Ulomm Deoband and Member Board of Medina University Saudi Arabia]
13 – Late. Mawlana Yousuf Binnori – Founder of Binnori Town refuted Mawdudi
14 – Late. Mawlana Abdul Majid Daryabadi pupil of Ashraf Ali Thanwi refuted Mawdudi.
Abul Ala Maudoodi and his party have been the subject of fatwas by Ulama of nearly every sect.
Mufti Muhzar-ullah, of Jami Fatehpuri in Delhi, wrote in his fatwa:
“On the very face of it, these things [beliefs of Maudoodi’s party] exclude a Muslim from the Sunnis, and lead to divisions among the believers, and is the basis of making a new sect. But looking closely, these things take one to heresy. In this case, they do not make a new sect, but result in one’s entry into the group of apostates.”
Maulana Hafiz-ullah of Aligarh has written:
“Whatever was the position of the Zarar mosque, similar is the position of this [i.e. Maudoodi’s] party.”
[Note: The Zarar mosque was a mosque built by some hypocrite Muslims in Madina during the Holy Prophet’s time for the purpose of conspiring against Islam].
The word kufr is used about the Zarar mosque in the Holy Quran. Hence the same word applies to these people.
Maulana Izaz Ali, Deobandi, wrote in his fatwa:
“I consider this [i.e. Maudoodi’s] party to be even more harmful for the faith of the Muslims than are the Ahmadis.”
Mufti Sayyid Mahdi Hasan, President-Mufti of the theological school at Deoband, writes in his fatwa:
“If an Imam of a mosque agrees with the views of Maudoodi, it is a hateful matter to pray behind him.”
Maulana Husain Ahmad Madani (Deobandi) wrote in a letter to Maudoodi:
“Your ‘Islamic’ movement is against the righteous tradition in Islam. It is like the [extremist] sects of old such as Mu‘tazila, Khwarij and Rafiz. It resembles modern sects such as Qadiani, Chakralvi [deniers of Hadith], Naturi [rationalist], and Baha’i [i.e. the Baha’i religion]. It seeks to make a new Islam. It is based on principles, beliefs and practices which are against the Sunnis and Islam.”
The Committee of Ulama of Maulana Ahmad Ali wrote in a poster against Maudoodi:
“His reasoning is devilry against the Quran.”
awan says: – July 2, 2010 at 10:04 am Ok, so let me see where in your remarks have you used atleast the same words for Khomeni as you have for Maududi. or show me in your comments posted above where you described the crimes of Maududi? Yes Maududi was the one of those people who gave hard time to Zulfiqar Bhutto, is that the reason you are after him?
=======================
Is this Maulvi in the video a Bhutto/PPP supporter?
Ahl-e-Hadith is exposing Jamat-e-Islami Iqamat-E-Deen Aur Jamaat-E-Islaami – 1/7(Urdu)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdxccyRJtMs&fe…
awan says: – July 2, 2010 at 10:04 am Ok, so let me see where in your remarks have you used atleast the same words for Khomeni as you have for Maududi. or show me in your comments posted above where you described the crimes of Maududi? Yes Maududi was the one of those people who gave hard time to Zulfiqar Bhutto, is that the reason you are after him?
===================
Maulvi below is not a PPP Supporter or is he?
Ahl-e-Hadith is exposing Jamat-e-Islami – Jamat Islami and Moulana Moududi’s corrupt Manhaj http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IJ8OQoFsjg
Jamat Islami and Moulana Moududi’s corrupt Manhaj-part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylx8_GvWuFk&fe…
Nazia: Make one argument & then stick with it. This is what you said to which i had given my reply:
"IT wont take too much time to get the comments of top non Muslim scholars/leaders who spoke against Prophet and Quran.Their all observations are based on thorough research.I am not in position to quote even few of them as it would generate heat in the debate and that is not my aim. You are Muslim so you picked those which touch your soul and faith."
You said that one can easily find adverse comments against our Prophet(PBUH) & that these "observations are based on thorough research". If you are willing to believe the detractors of our Prophet (PBUH) & believe in their "thoroughly researched" opinions that is your choice. That does not prove anything & neither is an answer to the point i was making.
Like i said the true sign of a persons greatness is when even your detractors admit to your qualities & to your greatness.
Please read through history & than make broad statements that only muslims lack true leadership qualities & muslims are always the ones creating problems.
I don't think Islam is in any danger. Muslims may be so because we have deviated from the right path. And please don't lump Ahmedis with muslim sects. Tomorrow if someone else comes and claims prophethood would you also accept his followers as muslims? Whatever many differences we have created between us but all muslims agree on the finality of the Prophet (PBUH).
Your other observations that we do not follow his path, have nothing to do with your earlier arguments. If people do not follow Islam, than Islam is not the problem.
And if there are problems in muslim countries that is not because of Islam or us being muslims. Most of the problems are political in nature. If the people of the middle east followed Buddhism do you think there wouldn't be the same problems there? The US wouldn't encourage & engineer monarchies & dictatorships to control the region & its oil wealth? Israel wouldn't occupy Palestinian lands? The Saudi/Egyptian/Jordanian/Syrian monarchies & dictatorships would be benign & peace loving & respectful of the rule of law & human rights?
Most of these problems things have nothing to do with the religion the people of the region follow. Look at the wars fought in the last 100 years & tell me how many were launched by muslims or by muslim countries. Than come & tell me that the problem is with Islam.
And i don't know why you are obsessed with marrying widows. Islam does not command us to marry widows. It is not an order that all of us have to follow. Islam just removed the taboo associated with it. All of the Prophet's wives weren't widows. And all men cannot possibly marry widows either.
A1
Before replying any person I see his/her comment first and then make my statement following comment only.
You say like that
when ever our detractors admit to our qualities and to our greatness can be index of our greatness
But it can reflects the broadmindedness of speakers that they are giving full space to heroes/ideas of other faith.
I have seen Ghandi boulevard in a strong Muslim country but nobody knows there about Jinnah although both raised their status at same tenure and area.
Have you seen name of Prophet and His companion in any state monument in non muslim areas.
We as Muslim have harassed the whole world by placing lock and key like blasphemous laws so no such liberal thoughts have been seeing in Muslim areas.
Yes you are right that most of problems in Muslim world is political but it is leadership that has covered these social and political problems under the guild of religious conflicts among communities.
This is very interesting that clerics of multiple faith never attack on top leadership and miltiary heads who make records of corruption in their tenure but all gather when something in support of public is sanctioned from govt level .It has become important part of our history that new kinds of faith are designed and developed either against state or in favor of state not to promote true spirit of Islam but to topple someone through bloody revolution.
I have no authority to say that ahmdiays are non muslims as they called themselves like that so whom I to declare them like that.
Second thing I have watched their attitude as neighbor and working colleagues, although they adopt abnormal way to present themselves but they belong to violence free group and I haven't seen and heard any kind of start of violence in their circles which is very prominent in our sunni shia gatherings.
So I cant follow the orders of Suadi friends who are ruling us on charity of those saudis.
No way I am obsessed with marrying widows of followers of sunnah but no doubt I miss no chance to vex the people including ladies and gentlemen who claim to be true lover and followers of Holy Prophet.
It is really fun to see as this question is annoying you even knowing well that marrying to widows is a strong example of Prophet to protect weak genders of society It was practical message to whole muslim community from top leader of Islam but his Ummat all time prefer to follow example of his last marriage, to marry younger girls.
Same situation of anger is seen in ladies community who all time preach Allah and rasool's way of living in daras like gathering , but when I ask them that they allow their husband for 2nd marriage or can accommodate poor and orphan girls with their son and brothers ,they reply me in same manner as you do that all men cant possibly marry to widow and orphans.
-So now I give you facts and figures in this regard only .001% muslim men opt to marry for a widow or orphan which I again say is strong sunnah.
-cleanliness is half of our faith and strictly orders by Prophet but if I am not wrong muslims are by nature highly unhygienic and avoid standard of cleanliness around their surrounding.
-We are strictly forbidden to take bribes, to say back biting and to accept interests(it is rated as eating flesh of your muslim brother) but 90% muslim community live with such highly off limits manners.
So please tell me having beard ,wearing shalwar above ankles ,saying prayers five times or marrying young girls are only ways of showing our love to Prophet and his sunnah.
Nazia: How many bloody revolutions can you list over here that have happened in muslim countries? The fact is that the overwhelming majority of the ulema throughout most of our history have been in service of the state & those in power.
Your argument that i have no right to consider ahmedy's non-muslims is really naive. Do you think ahmedy's consider you & me or people who do not believe in mirza ghulam ahmed as muslims? They also consider us kaafir & on the wrong path.
My believes concerning Islam are my BELIEVES – which means i think they are the right & true path – considering those who do not share the same beliefs as misguided is an inherent part of this or any other belief. If i also think that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was also right & Ahmedis are right in accepting him as a prophet, than that means i don't have any conviction in my own believes. Is that who you are?
Ahmedi's can call themselves whatever they want to but i have every right to determine what my faith is & whether i consider them on the right path or not & muslim or not. I have a right to my opinion just as ahmedi's hold the same opinion about me & other non-believers in mirza ghulam ahmed.
So your argument is really naive & without merit. It is just a vain attempt at sounding 'liberal'.
Agreed that they have not reacted violently to the excesses committed against them but that is only for one reason – they are in a minority and they fear a bigger backlash if they are perceived as fighting back. It is this fear that keeps them quite. The same is true of Christians. They are also victims of targeted violence, but they also do not dare stand up in fear of a bigger backlash.
That we do not treat our minorities properly & in the correct spirit of Islam is true. I agree & it is our fault as a society & we as have to reflect on this.
Marrying younger women has nothing to do with being Muslim or non-muslim but is an inherent preference of men. Do westerners prefer older women to younger ones? Do japanese prefer older women? Name one society in the world where men prefer older widowed/divorced women to younger virgins.
Again, please don't make broad statements like Muslims are by nature highly unhygienic. What does it have to do with being Muslim? Hindus are not? Christians are not? You can finds all types of people in every society & muslims are a very heterogeneous group. For example, apart from the faith, what do Malay muslims have in common with Pakistani Muslims or Turkish Muslims or a Muslim from Saudi Arabia?
Regarding your point, that keeping a beard or wearing shalwar above ankles are not the only ways of showing the love of Prophet, i agree with you. I never argued about that. I agree people have reduced religion to a few relatively easy things & forget about the bigger message of Islam. About Huqooq-ul-Ibad for example. Many times the people with the most outwardly Islamic appearance & practices are the most disrespectful of their fellow human beings.
A1
More than 4 million qadayin members are living in Pakistan.
How much is their total number not clear but where ever they live they present a very organized peace living group.I have many times seen that qadiaynis are discriminated in Pakistan by stronger group even in job circle.They have been persecuted in Pakistan through miltiary force many times along with political decision but they are on their way as their existence is as real as you and me are surviving here in situation of doubts.
So you and your state have done all worst to them but they are remain as such so let them to live in their world by considering us non Muslim at least they are not following the principle of terrorism and violence to prove their presence in this area or any other part of world.
I know and see the Islamic spirit of strong muslim communities of Pakistan.I have closely watched the activities of shrine lovers, I am afraid of all time wailing attitude of shias public meeting as we might see more bloodshed on the name Islam in our streets.I am highly irritated when Taliban are called extremist Muslims as it is insult to be heard as a Muslim.
I couldnt control my laugh after seeing the abnormal hype of brelvis muslim through delusional facts which they concocted with their little brains and spread in large gatherings.
So in this mess of faith distortion if these ahmediays play their non violent role then what makes revolution in this country?
If somebody declare that I am non muslim that it wouldn't change my birth right or personal choice of picking particular faith but if I am coward or hypocrite then I would take aggressive stance to prove my words at all costs.
You say
Marrying younger women has nothing to do with being Muslim or non-muslim but is an inherent preference of men. Do westerners prefer older women to younger ones? Do japanese prefer older women? Name one society in the world where men prefer older widowed/divorced women to younger virgins.
None of any above mentioned community claim to be followers of Holy prophet who himself adopted this practice.
Christians believing that Christ is son of God and hazrat Mariam as single mother always given proper place to illegitimate child and single mothers in their society because they think it is some kind of reflection of their prophecy to secure single mother and illegitimate child in this unprotected world
Most Japanese consider themselves Buddhist, Shintoist or both and follow Siddhartha Gautam The foundations of Buddhist tradition and practice are the three Jewels: the Buddha, the Dharma (the teachings), and the Sangha (the community.Do you think their majority deny its basic teachings.Marrying to young and old women are their personal choices and their religion or Prophet didnt set any kind of example as did by Holy Prophet.
I dont know about other faith but as a muslim I can build my broader vision after studying their way of civic designs and living styles that we are least bothered nation about Hygienic conditions even around our religious places.As an individual I have worked on this issue to guide the community in this regard as per my range but all in vain and every thing has come to zero what ever efforts or technology provided to them.
I have seen thousand years BC designs of roman construction where proper channels are found to handle human waste but this system is completely absent in old designs of Islamic architecture styles where fine designs of mosques, tombs, pillars are available but handling sewerage and garbage is not in priority.
Nazia: What is your point? Did i say that the discrimination & violence against Ahmedi's or any other religious or ethinic minority is or was justified? My considering them as non-muslims does not have anything to do with the violence committed against their community. What happened in Lahore recently was cold blooded murder & the responsibility falls on our entire society.
The issue under discussion is whether i have a right to consider Ahmedi's non-muslims. I HAVE. Just as they would consider me. This is an inherent part of any religious belief. You naively think you don't have any right to consider them non-muslim. This may mean either you are an Ahmedi yourself or you have no conviction in your own beliefs & accept every tom, dick & harry a muslim. Theres a 'muslim' sect that worships Hazrat Ali as a reincarnation of God – do you consider them as muslims as well? just because they call themselves muslims?
It is an inherent part of ANY religious belief to consider the other religions as on the wrong path. There is nothing 'extreme' or 'militant' about this. This is just a stupid argument peddled by so called 'liberals'.
Regarding younger women, you just reinforced my point. None of these communities are muslims which proves that Islam & being muslim doesn't have anything to do with the preference for younger women. You cannot name one community where men have such a preference. This is an inherent preference that men have. Islam neither commands nor recommends marrying older women to younger ones. You don't get extra points with God according to the age of the woman you marry.
You cannot me more wrong about Christian faith. Where do you come up with these explanations? Acceptance of single mothers in western countries is only a recent phenomenon & doesn't have anything to do with Christianity. If it was so than what about the Christians living in India & Pakistan or Africa? Have you started making up Christian teachings to justify your points? Where in the bible does it say it is ok to have physical relations outside of marriage? The US was a pretty conservative society up to i guess the 50's & still is much more religious than many European countries. Why do you think bastard is used in a negative sense?
Regarding Japan i haven't studies Buddhism so i don't know what its teachings are. I am sure you haven't either but are just blindly making up religious injunctions for them. Second, the Holy Prophet married widowed women as well those marrying for the first time. He married both older women & younger ones. There is no Islamic injunction that requires men to marry older women or makes it a compulsion to marry widows. This is purely a societal/cultural issue.
The ancient romans were pagans. So you think their cleanliness had something to do with their religious beliefs in Zeus, Jupiter, Neptune etc.?
Teeth: Why are my comments on this topic being blocked? I haven't written anything objectionable.
And there is some error in your site because my comment section opened with Aamir Mughals particulars already filled in including his email address.
LOL:)
Yesterday somebody typed "hjyjhj" and used my ID. Could be Blackwater!
A1
It is your virtual association with Mughal that is showing its colours like that in TMBLOG.I have already told you that he is your lost brother now it is going to prove now.
Nazia says: – July 3, 2010 at 12:26 am A1 It is your virtual association with Mughal that is showing its colours like that in TMBLOG.I have already told you that he is your lost brother now it is going to prove now.
=============
How come I am involved in your debate. By the way I am virtual at all, I am very much real.
No this is a yahoodi conspiracy. Just confirmed it with Zaid Hamid. RAW/CIA/MOSSAD & KFC are behind this.
Either that or Aamir Mughal is trying to slowly take over this blog.
mughal
You have some quality of virtuousness other wise how come your name is appearing on the addres of Aone who himself is afraid of facing the world with his real identity.
That uniqueness has put you in this debate otherwise my name could have been appeared on other participant's address.
Awan Idiot, like I said everyone is kafir;
fatwa, deobandi kafir, brelvi kafir, ahle hadith kafir, kuttay, wahabi کافر
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X01htQUvKcQ
Abay Need Hakim ..I never embraced Modudi's teachings because he is as potty mouth as Shias while cursing Companions of Prophet(SaW). How can I tolerate such person?
Aone
Your 2nd para is reply of my point.
First you setup hate culture for a group by calling them non Muslims.The majority sects controlling Pakistan never limited their efforts upto declaration but consistent process of persecution is going on and result is Lahore massacre.
Now you all make sad faces that your are not in favour of this but on the other side we all know that harassment is blunt tool for changing the faith of any community.
You have a strong right to say qadiaynis are not Muslims as your state officially declared it but other state like India UK ,Canada etc they are put in category of Muslims as this is personal choice of this community.
If some group or individual separates them selves on issues of khatam ul nubwat which only surrounds the personality of Prophet,then let the matter in the court of Allah as this way of preaching has attracted not thousands but millions and interesting thing is majority belong to educated backgrounds.
Whether you say my religious concept is weak or convicted but my little brain cant accept this logic that what is purpose of deadly fight with any community on the basis of Prophet and Prophecy issues.
I cant digest the orders of saudis and related sects who always violently act to prove their words.
I am highly against harassment in religious matters which is prominent feature in our politics that is why I have soft corner for ahmeadiyas who all time are harassed in our so called Islamic society.
I would surely favour your so called Islamic stance if you prove that Pakistan is an ideal islamic state as per exact teaching of Prophet and orders of Allah.
Now something about your enlighten vision about marrying to young girls.
Holy prophet could have married to young and beautiful ladies which he was repeatedly offered by his people again and again during his stay in Mecca and medina.
The Holy Prophet married hazrat Khadija, a widow 40 years of age, when he was 25 years of age. They were happily married until she passed away at the age of 65. They set the best example for others to emulate in married life.
On the other hand Polygamy was practiced in Arabia at that time and almost all picked young and beautiful but the Prophet Muhammad remained monogamous all these years and set the best example for those who wish to remain monogamous.
The wives of the beloved Prophet were either widows, divorcees or captives of war, except for hazrat Aisha who was the only virgin he married.
Some of the women he married were widows of his sahaba who had laid down their lives for the sake of Islam.
But he set different examples as a leader of islam to pick and choose divorces, widows and older ladies too.
Asas a Prophet he acted against normal norms which you say is inherent behaviour of men and universally accepted as such.
On the other hand followers of Budhhaism and Christianity strongly follow the life styles of their propheta.
The Buddhist system of insight and meditation practice is not believed to have been revealed divinely, but by the understanding of the true nature of the mind, which must be discovered by personally treading a spiritual path guided by the Buddha's teachings.
This is on same principle which Prophet followed that all
teachings should not be accepted unless they are borne out by our experience not because of inherent attitude of powerful men of any community.
Now about the Christians I cant go to thousand year back history but just try to dig the reason that why in British rules lady willington hospital was made in lahore and we muslim called it as harm dai dan haspathal.
My mother in his student time made full thesis and research on this hospital that christian community for last hundred year was convinced that they have to secure newborns(no matter which religion they belong) who come into world due to illegitimate relation of adults because this was same charge which was put on their PROPHET.
So I think you are professional dodger who are not interested to understand the simple philosophy of religious belief that one has to follow the life styles of his Prophet as per his capacity instead of proudly claiming the universal habits of men as normal trait.
Nazia: You don't have an answer to anything. You just want to debate endlessly. There are two issues that you raised:
First, you said that you can find many people who have adverse comments about Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) & so the favorable quotes i posted don't mean anything. And to you these adverse comments were 'well-researched'. Go & re-read what you wrote & than either stick with your point of view or accept that you are wrong.
You can believe whoever you want to believe about our Prophet (PBUH) & any 'well-researched' account. I will base my religion on the Quran & Hadith. If you think people calling our Prophet (PBUH) names have done research on it, that is your choice. Your comment was not an answer to what i had written.
Second, i have every right to consider Ahmedi's non-muslims. This has nothing to do with the violence committed against their community so please don't give me that crap justification. Our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) showed us the right path from the wrong one. Would you nauzubillah even start blaming him for spreading hatred because he was calling those who did not believe in him kaafir? Please don't give these stupid justifications. There is a LOT OF DIFFERENCE between considering someone Muslim or not & going & murdering someone in cold bold because of their believes.
And by the same logic please do answer my question. Would you also consider the sect that worships Hazrat Ali as muslims too? Because by the logic you are following, you certainly should because they call themselves muslim.
I am not arguing anywhere about what Pakistani state is like. No where did i say that Pakistan is an Islamic state. So don't take the discussion in another direction.
Regarding the Prophets marriages, they were divinely ordained. He married more than 4 times which is not permitted for any Muslim man. So you cannot declare everything as an Islamic Injunction. I am not saying Islam teaches us to marry young woman. I am only saying that men prefer younger women to older ones & that is true everywhere in the world. And Islam does not command men anywhere to prefer older women to younger ones. Please don't invent religious injunctions.
For your information, Christians & Muslims alike believe that Christ came into this world through a miracle of God. We don't believe that he was an illegitimate child so there is absolutely no relation whatsoever between his birth & between children born outside of wedlock.
It is only now that in western societies this has become acceptable. This was not so a generation ago. And this cultural change has corresponded with a decline in religiosity amongst their population. It is not because of Christianity but despite it.
Christian teachings just like Islam forbid any physical relationship outside of marriage. And neither Islam nor Christianity teaches us to kill a child born outside of wedlock so your point is meaningless.
In the west, homosexuality is slowly becoming acceptable too. Will you link that with Christian teachings too? What about christians living in Pakistan & India? Are children born outside of marriage & homosexuality tolerated by them as well?
Please don't link cultural issues with religious ones.
You say: "Budhhaism and Christianity strongly follow the life styles of their prophet". Even Christians & Buddhists will not agree with you.
Just answer one question: WHICH WORLD DO YOU LIVE IN? Or do you just want to make up facts to make your point that all the problems are with Muslims only?
And please study some history before making massive generalizations about entire communities – communities that each have over a billion followers.
A1
No way I am presenting you massive generalization of communities but I am only pin pointing followers of Prophets of each faith.
I know very well that majority Japanese and pacific Asian people have taken them away from basic religion and mold their life styles as per demand of state.They never pose to be religious as we Muslim majority show it strongly to impress each other.
We Muslims always claim to be followers of Prophet and obedient of Allah.Actually it is not like that .We even speak lies to our soul.
Read carefully I am totally to the point but in my opinion social factors are more dominant but you are insisting me to follow the orders of Quran and Hidith at all costs.
Now if I give importance to your point of view then you ignore the example of Prophet of marrying divorcees and widows and consider it as divine's orders.
So tell me why this divine order is not fit for common muslims or do you think Allah did all this only for decorative purpose.
Lets leave this young bride issue and take another and it is importance of male child .
Allah had clearly taken male heirs from Prophet .His strong hadith of educating three daughters is an absolute example of giving importance to female child and practical too.It has already been proved that daughters are more loving and supporting toward parents if they are treated in good manners .
But see all the laws of inheritance favors male child.male child is still considered weakness of Muslim community They are popular for having multiple marriages for getting son or brigade of sons to show their supremacy to others.
Allah knew well that son was considered as symbol of proud in any society but He denied this blessing to His apostle of revolution just setting an example like foundation stone beofre building an Islamic society but majority Muslim community denied and still denying this hint of divine too. You are ALSO avoiding that Holy Prophet didnt set example of marrying divorces for his followers.
I think One lakh and 24 thousand Prophets have been sent to people of Asia and Africa but one can see the stubbornness of this generation that they are in need of more Prophets to understand the orders of God in more explicit form.
I dont say that christian and Muslim consider HAZRAT ESSA as an illegitimate child but he and his mother faced such kind of charges from their surroundings.
See the difference christian community as it accepts the presence of children who came into world wihtout wedlock.Tell me a single hadith, or Koranic verse or any ijthaid concept on the existence of that kind of child in our society.Such kids were also part of all kind of Islamic society since long time but what is their social and religious status nobody knows.
I am insisting you first create an ideal or close to ideal islamic society and then mark the division who is Muslim or who is not Muslim.This is the disturbance and injustice in Islamic society that give ways new faiths to get roots in any system.
You are just tagging some community with non Muslim using power of Quran and hadith because they are denying the hypocrisy of dominant sects.
I am living in this society which claim to Muslim and follower of Sunnah but in their practical lives I cant see even glimpses of such path which we read in quran and sunnah.
As I consider myself part of this hypocrite society where sons are preferred on daughters, widows and orphans are mistreated, people are cheated/killed on the name of religion and beheading others for showing power of particular faith, that is why indecisive in my opinions that who is Muslim or who is not.
I Give you another example in creation of talibans.it is same Pak army and its propaganda unit which once declared these Taliban as solders of Allah now this is same army its ISPR and its media team who are considering them fake warriors of Asia or considering them serious threat of Islam.
So this time you rethink that as wind is blowing against qadyinais so they are non muslim when ever state and maullah need them they would be consider Muslims within short period of time.
Nazia: Examples of your massive & mostly incorrect generalizations:
1. “Budhhaism and Christianity strongly follow the life styles of their prophet” – This is a laughable claim to which even Christians and Buddhists wouldn't agree. And in your own post you are now saying the complete opposite that they have moved away from religion. Please stick with one opinion. Don't keep changing the argument just to keep on arguing.
2. "Christians believing that Christ is son of God and hazrat Mariam as single mother always given proper place to illegitimate child and single mothers in their society" – The 2nd part is absolutely not true. Acceptance of single mothers is recent & only in developed western countries – not true at all of all christian communities. It corresponds with them moving away from religion & accepting living together without marriage as acceptable.
3. "we are least bothered nation about Hygienic conditions even around our religious places" – Cannot generalize about all muslims that they are unclean. And this isn't because we are muslims or non-muslims. Have you been to India?
I am not forcing you to follow anything. You can believe whatever you want to. And that is what Allah says in the Quran that there is no compulsion in religion – no one can force their believes over anyone.
You have to make a distinction between compulsory orders & something that is considered better. There is absolutely no orders by the Prophet for all muslims to marry widows or older women – If some muslim men takes a widow as wife and takes care of her and any children she has, he will get his reward from Allah. But it is not an obligation.
This is the same as say Namaz-e-Tahajjud. The holy prophet used to stay up all night & pray. Tahajjud Prayers were compulsory on the Prophet (PBUH). But they have not been made compulsory on the Ummah. Whoever wants to pray will get the reward for it but there is no compulsion.
Please clear this in your mind and don't invent injunctions in your own mind to suit your own desires.
Have you read the story of Hazrat Eesa in the Quran? This is what it says – when the people came to Hazrat Maryam & said to her that why have you done such a bad thing, & your parents were respectable people, she pointed towards the child. They said why are you pointing towards him, he is just a child. Than the child spoke up and said i have been sent down by God. So Hazrat Eesa was given miracles & it wasn't like he wasn't accepted in his community & treated as an illegitimate child. The miracles proved to the people that he had been sent down by God.
So please don't create logics in your own head & then create facts that illegitimate children have always been accepted in Christian communities. This is absolutely not true.
Since you have such a problem with Islamic teachings, please tell me where in the Bible does it encourage society to accept illegitimate children & accepts having sexual relations outside of wedlock? Please do give me references. I am sure you will try a google search on this but you will end up with nothing because you are just creating facts out of thin air to support your logic.
What hypocrisy of the majority sect are the Ahmedis denying? The only thing they are denying is the finality of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). Is this is hypocrisy to you? Tell me one thing – what are your religions beliefs based on? On the Quran & Hadith or just whatever comes in your mind & you think is right? I think your beliefs on religion are more in line with an agnostic.
My considering them Non-Muslims has nothing to do with the opinions of the Pakistani state. If the state declares them muslims, i will still consider them non-muslims. That is my belief. For your information Ahmedis don't have any love lost for us either. They think that whoever doesn't believe in mirza ghulam ahmed is a deviant & a non-muslim.
This is the third time i am asking this – Please do answer. Do you also consider the sect that worships Hazrat Ali as God as muslims too? Because they do call themselves muslim? So as per your logic we should have no right to call them non-muslims either. And we should wait for the creation of a perfect muslim state before we can consider them non-muslims. Until then whoever tom dick and harry comes up and says i am a muslim or claims prophethood we should just accept him or her. This is your senseless logic.
Al,
Don't take Khala Nazia seriously. Poor lady has been neglected in her circles and she doesn't know cooking, so let her cook something even if its on the computer…
She knows it all and has to bud-in in every conversation.
Seriously this kind of personality makes those "khalaz" who start the fire in any family in the neigborhood, because they want to be felt important so they pretend that they know it all.
Chuotto
you dont miss a chance to favour your uncles on my comments.
Who told you to interfere in elders matter or wasting time on my comments.
Your observation on my activities is as poor as your pathetic comment.
I am not budding in any discussion but you cant leave your bad habits of bugging all the time specially in aunty culture.
One thing I told you as a little advice that importance is created in any circle through respect of each other ,mutual help in difficult times and caring attitude.By igniting other's house or making fire would only develop hate and distance not importance of any one.
Aone
What I can comment on your irregular thoughts.
I have simply replied you my observation wihtout quoting googles search engines and without showing heavy references of quran and hadith.
I have replied you many times and in simple way that I wouldn't say any body non Muslim if either he is qadiyani or consider Hazrat Ali as God(if he/she wants to be identified as Muslim) even people would call me with names.
You want to say them non Muslims then it is your choice or part of faith but then prove also that you are real muslim not an opportunist who live on pick and drop choices in Islam.
I haven't seen any kind of islamic society around me nor pious people who pass their lives under Islamic teachings and if you people would keep me in fantasy world of old past then I deny to live in this world.
I watch on daily basis what is actually going on around me in name of Islam.
Now you want to generalize my statement for christian and buddahist as per your blockhead not mine.
Read this extract from (Bible, Matthew 1:18-21)
This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.
Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."
So in many European countries since many centuries, particularly Catholic ones, illegitimate births were first and foremost a matter for the church. The church and charitable institutions established several large ORPHANAGES in major cities where such kids were accepted without any hesitation.
In this particular background I gave you example of presence of Lady willington hospital in lahore.
But your life is to make confusion on other practical.
When you were not born my mother and aunts have made such kind of researches as social worker and doctors that what were real reasons of hypocrisy in islamic society.
we brought up in such environment where such discussions and reasearch are discussed as normal disucssion in home .There fore I dont need to die to find references to prove my points which I extract from my real experinces and my family members too.
So I again repeat the followers of Christianity and buddha don't claim their association with religion and religious icons as we Muslims do in our hypocrite life.
How poor your observation is about haqooq Allah and Haqoq ul abad.
Tehjad prayer is between you and Allah and no way can be matched with following the example of marrying to widow and desperate desire of male son in Muslim society.
Allah dont need your five times head on collision on floor or your full day hunger in the form of fast.He has no bank in which he can place your zakat but God's all orders in the form of obligation indirectly links with haqooq ul abad and living with fear of God all the time.
You say your all obligation to get serenity of your heart and soul under some superior power which can at least give you peace of mind.
Then comes His Prophet.So those people who declare to be strong followers of Prophet should copy his life styles.
He obeyed divine laws as Allah wanted to show you that people should follow these acts but here lovers like you run away from live examples of Prophet and opt for those styles which suit you.
I am still stick to my basic faith as born a Muslim and teaching which was taught to us since our childhood as a muslim child in any Muslim family.
Beyond this I have no time to create tension around me on the name of religious conflicts.
Nazia: Actually i have been saying the same thing since the start. I stand by the quotes on the Holy Prophet (PBUH) i posted. And I think that i have the right to consider someone who does not believe in the finality of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) & one God as a non-muslim.
You say one thing and than another just to make a point. Now make a decision. What is it? Do Buddhists & Christians strongly follow their prophets or have they moved away from religion? Which one is it?
If you consider those that worship humans as gods as muslims too than you need to seriously take a look at your believes. If i start claiming that i am Chinese no one is going to accept it. I can claim all i want. The chinese are not going to say that ok we don't have any right to say he is not a Chinese so if he says he is a Chinese than he is a Chinese. This is what in essence you are saying. Was the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) wrong too in declaring non-believers as kaafir?
One advice – when you are discussing ANY Topic, a very basic criteria is to know something about it. If i go and debate on Einstein's theory of relativity it will help if i go and study his work first instead of just passing uneducated comments. Similarly when i am discussing Islam, it is necessary that i base my opinion on the Quran & Hadith from which the religion is derived. You say i don't have time to study the Quran & Hadith & than you have to give your opinions on Islam too. Utter stupidity.
And go and look the meaning of the word Orphanage in a dictionary. You don't think there is any difference between an orphan and a bastard?
Nazia: And marrying widows does not fall in the category of huqooq-ul-ibad. Everyone is absolutely free in choosing their spouses – whoever they want to spend their life with. There is absolutely no obligation in Islam to marry a widow instead of a virgin or younger woman.
Please don't invent injunctions yourself. I am absolutely certain that if there were any such injunction in Islam people like you would be crying foul that Islam is such an unfair religion that it does not even allow one the freedom to chose one's spouse.
A1
marrying to widow surely comes in haqqoq ulabad when state remain in war situation for more than 9 years.
This is high time to follow this suunah.
To what kind of injunction you are pointing out.
We live with two kinds of injunctions one is judicial injunction which our state defined when it see the mishandling of Islamic laws.
e.g
As done in 2nd marriage case that if first wife wouldn't give permission husband can put behind bar and marriage can be dissolved.
Or now change in Khulla right through local nazim is another kind of judical injunction implanted in our system.
From my point of view you can marry 4 beautiful virgin at a time as this is your religious right granted to you by your past generation which like you claim to be follower of Mohammed(pbuh) who married to widows and divorcees.
If you have any problem regarding search of beautiful girls I can take you in such Pakistan homes where parents of unwanted girls are ready to marry their daughters to any settled men of any age group.
So it is not matter what is available to you and what is your desire but when you claim that you are strong followers of Sunnah and Allah's order and under this powerful faith you start throwing people out of your fixed boundaries then follow sunnah at all costs as it is divines' order to His man kind.
One thing more bastard in many versions of bible are used for those kids who had come through mix breed specially from christian and Jews marriage or illicit relation.
So this term might be concocted in history when Christians clerics and Jews were strongly stood against each other
Nazia: What the hell are you saying? I cannot even consider someone who is worshiping human beings a non-muslim now? Why believe in anything than.
Huqooq-ul-Ebad is the right i have towards my parents, my wife, my relatives etc. I have obligations towards my parents – which if i do not follow i will be punished for. There is no obligation in Islam that one HAS to marry a widow & one will get punished if he doesn't. You will get the reward for it if you do but you won't get punished if you don't. So don't create your own logic over everything.
And your example shows just how closed minded the Christian religion was that even marriage to a jew was not recognized & children from such a marriage were considered bastards. And you want people to believe that Christians were openly accepting children born out of wedlock because of their religious teachings.
I think you should start a new religion – you have just created new injunctions for Muslims & Christians – why not create a new religion. You can issue your own commandments that marrying widows is compulsory on every follower & every one can be a follower – there are no set of believes – you can believe in 1 god, 2 gods, 10 gods or a 100 gods. There will only be one requirement – studying books & learning from history is not allowed. All opinions & injunctions must be uneducated & created out of thin air. Evidence is not required. Facts can be created wherever necessary to support your argument.
Aone
Your impression imprint that you are a man but your expression is not more than a quarrelsome woman who is all time ready to fight others for keeping her free time as much good as possible.
So first help me what is your real status in this world then I would reply you in better way.
Who tell you I would believe what people say to me about their variety of faith.But I want to give them space so that they would feel no resistance to pass their life as per their faith.
We should put compulsions and restrictions on our acts as per our faith and not peep on others to criticize and hit their terms of belief.Resistance and restrictions on any community wouldn't stop its association with its faith.It would surely reveal our weakness in front of them as harassment is some kind of hidden fear of oppressor which he/she poses to threat weak class as suppressor and people as minority start hating you to the core of their heart.
So war/conflicts whether psychological or physcial cant be won unless you win heart and minds of public.
God forbid If I even think of creating new religion or faith.It have been enough created to spread confusion in young minds so if I even think it God would shorten my life as much as possible.
Christians have more old legacy than Islam and had very bad patches in the form of burning women as evil or persecution of blacks and jews through the hands of whites ,child abuses in churches etc but they are known to kept their illegitimate children under religious boundary throughout.These orphanages were meant for those illegitimate kids .Please do some research in this way on my provided points.
Nazia: Meaning of Orphanage: "A public institution for the care and protection of children without parents".
Why would bastard children be placed there – they have both their parents – and according to you Christian society accepts them with open arms. Could it be that they were shunned by society & couldn't live normal lives in the real world? Or that their parents were ashamed of accepting them? And if they are so openly accepted than why do you use the word 'illegitimate'?
But to hell with common sense, logic & historical facts – if they do not fit in with Nazia Khala's theories than they don't matter. This is the 3rd commandment of Nazia Khala's new religion. The 1st is that logic & knowledge have no place in forming ones opinion. The 2nd is that ALL men must marry widows.
A1
who is forcing you to believe on my commons sense as we have nothing common to share and senses can be cursed by senseless curses which are in your inbuilt habit.
Decent civilization always uses appropriate terms for covering their weak areas and characters therefore in religious circle these bastard are protected under the name of orphans.
I never ever think that Muslim men prefer to marry widows and divorcees as I have seen practical demonstration of majority and concluded that Prophet life style is only used as projection and a Muslim person cant think of adopting His life patterns on the basis of his strong weaknesses as a male of hypocrite society.
I only ask such queries to those people who portray to be lover of Holy PROPHET AND his SUUNAH.
You know Holy Prophet preached concept of tauheed and social norms as were done by last many Prophets.But he was distinguished by few of his qualities under divine's instructions, than other Prophets.
FEW of his acts were,preferring marry widows and divorcees , love for daughters and pardon for his enemies.
By the way those who claim to be true follower of his suunah are always miles away of his such marked distinctions which were one of difficult and impossible act as being strong man of any society.
So either dont claim on hollow basis that you are follower of suunah and consider your self as normal born Muslim who would avail all best opportunity around you as and where basis .
It would more suit you and I wouldn't ask you such demand which is not in range of true Muslim when he is young ,strong and dominant in his decisions.
A1
I have read thoroughly about seeling of prophet, finality of prophethood and khatam nabwat concept long time ago.
I have read some of literature of qadiyani faith too in this regard.
So as teenager I believed what what scholars/mullah and our provided literature said about qadiaynai as they left no choice for people to give spaces to other concepts.
Then I saw hatred literature against community whom you and your state declared non muslims officially.
Then I observed my people and my army who had no right to interfere in religious affairs started persecution of this community.
I also watched my dominating sect started killing them wherever got opportunity.
On the other hand this community stand on their principle without killing other non muslim from their point of view.it is not matter of thousands but millions who although deny my basic faith but want to live with same tag as I do without disturbing the faith of majority.
Along with this I witnessed brutal usage of blasphemy law which even bring shia sunni against each other.
Then I saw the wrong supremacy of whabi group in our majority areas.
This is same group which influenced Bhutto to plant this hatred culture in our secular type state.
Now in latest update I heard that these clerics allowed ladies to have male chauffeurs after breast feeding them for showing maternity sentiments to male adults.
oh my God where the hell I should go to kill these stupids who are owner of our holy places
Trust me If I have to live in such circumstances I would take no time to declare my self as non Muslim and get out of this filthy concept of maternity as muslim woman.Thanks to Allah that I brought up in Pakistan where my surroundings help me to draw my belief as per my birth right and from my knowledge based on my studies and practice.
So please who are interfering in your faith but dont force me to indulge in hate business in religion matters.
Oh yes the day any one try to impose religion on me by force then I would strongly react with my uphold power granted to me by almighty God.
What is Blasphemy?
یہ ایسا ڈرامہ تھا کہ ججوں سمیت کسی کا دھیان اس بات پر ہی نہیں گیا کہ پھینکے جانے والے اسلامی جمہوریہ پاکستان کے آئین کی کتاب میں بھی اللہ کا نام موجود ہے۔
ویلکم ٹو کورٹ نمبر ون!
وسعت اللہ خان
بی بی سی اردو ڈاٹ کام، اسلام آباد
آخری وقت اشاعت: بدھ 21 جولائ 2010 , 16:20 GMT 21:20 PST
http://Www.Bbc. Co.Uk/Urdu/ Pakistan/ 2010/07/100721_ Wusat_analysis. Shtml
ویلکم ٹو کورٹ نمبر ون!
وسعت اللہ خان
بی بی سی اردو ڈاٹ کام، اسلام آباد
آخری وقت اشاعت: بدھ 21 جولائ 2010 , 16:20 GMT 21:20 PST
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2010/07/100721…
What is Blasphemy?
A National Shame: LAHORE, July 22: The Lahore High Court ordered on Thursday that a mentally ill woman who had been under detention without trial for 14 years be immediately released. She faced blasphemy charges but police never presented any evidence against her in the court. Zaibun Nisa was arrested after registration of a case on Oct 26, 1996, in Sihala against ‘unknown people’ on the complaint of local cleric Qari Hafeez. Initially she was kept in Rawalpindi’s Adayala jail, then brought to the Kot Lakhpat prison in Lahore and later admitted to a mental hospital. Local lawyer Aftab Ahmad Bajwa filed a petition for her release, saying she had been implicated in the case only to defuse public pressure. Mentally ill woman spends 14 years in detention By Our Staff Reporter Friday, 23 Jul, 2010 http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-…
execution period… cases took years to get settled! 1.52 million cases pending in courts countrywide Monday, February 01, 2010 http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=201…
* 18,312 cases in SC, 110,110 in LHC, 29,414 in SHC, 14,522 in PHC, 4,893 in BHC By Masood Rehman
ISLAMABAD: As many as 1.52 million cases were pending in the country’s courts until January 15, 2010, a number that could swell due to a shortage of judges in both the superior and subordinate judiciaries. After the imposition of the National Judicial Policy (NJP) on June 1, 2009, the Supreme Court has been able to reduce its backlog of cases from 19,055 to 18,312, until January 15 this year.
The Judicial System of Pakistan by Dr Faqir Hussain Registrar, Supreme Court of Pakistan http://pklegal.org/resources/JUDICIAL_SYSTEM_OF_P…
Your link is again a solid proof of my claim that blasphemy or islamic laws shouldn’t allowed on the basis of mental approach of executives or ruling class but after improving the vision of common people through social reforms and educating them.
You see it was an executive order that made a law that parliamentarian should be at least having graduate BA degree.
Here strong groups again misused this amendment by promoting culture of forgery in all scale.
if general naqvi made such move in which voters should be graduate before casting votes, then you would have seen different situation in favor of common people.
But all rules and previliges tend to be molded in favor of influential people.
Hum tu khay kay thak gay that in a hypocrite Islamic society there is no place for blasphemy law but people like you(intellectual hypocrite) need tragic examples like that.
That is why I always say first bring positive social reforms in distorted society like ours and then adopt or implement Islamic principles as per mentioned in Quran and sunnah.
Now you can sense the intensity of brutality of Muslim minds behind usage of such laws.
Pls pls dont say it is not fault of Islam that humans do not follow like that.
Islam is not such concept of life which can be placed in crystal ball and protected under armed kiiler guards so that it cant be touched by common people as normal living style.
Nazia says: – July 23, 2010 at 10:25 pm Hum tu khay kay thak gay that in a hypocrite Islamic society there is no place for blasphemy law but people like you(intellectual hypocrite) need tragic examples like that. Now you can sense the intensity of brutality of Muslim minds behind usage of such laws.
=================
What about this mentality: BARELY days after the Punjab chief minister was caught playing to the Taliban gallery, another high official from the province is in the spotlight for all the wrong reasons. This time, Lahore High Court Chief Justice Khawaja Mohammad Sharif has sparked outrage for reportedly saying that Hindus were responsible for financing acts of terrorism in Pakistan. REFERENCE: Tactless remarks Dawn Editorial Thursday, 18 Mar, 2010 http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-…