Location: Karachi Press Club
Date: Tuesday 7th October, 2009
Time: 5:00 PM
The People’s Resistance strongly condemns the Army brutality captured on video recently as illegal and despicable behaviour on the basis of violation of the understanding of our human rights and our laws.
In no sense can this strong condemnation be understood as support of the Taliban. Lets not fail to remind ourselves what else the fight was about besides army action. The fight was against violent intolerance and deluded religious bigotry. It was also long overdue. We are glad it happened. This behaviour, and that not shown in the video, is intolerable and will undoubtedly help in making a Taliban comeback.
Our cause is the extension of civil society, not brutal behaviour, the extension of civil methods, not illegal indefensible torture through indiscipline inside Pakistan Army.
As Citizens of Pakistan, we want our soldiers, big and small, to set the record straight.
Comments
117 responses to “Peoples Resistance: Protest against Army Brutality”
ali abdi,
1st of all army has started operation when the orders were givn to them by government so you cant blame army for that….
for your kind info i don't listen to zaid hamid…. i hve seen the on ground realities….if u have guts, go to swat one day…
one day when fazlullah will be caught, and will be beatn like this, will u have another protest??
its very easy to write comments while having no basic info…. have a view of the location, check the basic facts and on ground realities, u will come to know whats the situation!!
i dont know why the people of Pakistan act so blindly, or they just tend to be different!
@Salman Asghar :
[ After having a look of your second post regarding the video of Pakistan Army, i doubt you to be a taliban paying you heavily ]
Dude firstly, if your military a** are tired filling dollars into their EMPIRE, why not Awab making some bucks too? Thats his democratic right , nai ??
Secondly, since i know him in person for a while, i recommend you to KNOW people first before vomiting shit.
If you have any answer to the video your are welcome to say anything you want but dont start aerial firing just because the ugly truth is hard for you to digest.
THE people of PAKISTAN are the owners of this country and the MILITRAY is the servant. And a servant is a servant is a servant who is SUPPOSE to complete the task given to him.
Now please dont give me that crap "watan ki khatir jaan de di" bullshit.
– More political workers have sacrificed their lives then your officers
– Why you people dont pay tribute to the FIRE FIGHTERs who lost their lives since 47 in their line of duty, wo aap logun ko shahadat kiun nai lagti??
– aap logun ne thaika lia hua hai shahadat ka licence deney ka?
– Majority of the shuhadaa are the poor 8K salary jawanz working as sipahi then your officers, but it pisses you off when we critize the officers?
– None of the officers are abducted from their homes to do service in ARMY so they are not doing any ehsaan when they join ARMY, they do for the sake of LITTLE-INVESTMENT-HIGH-RETURN reasoning, and in doing so if few hundred are killed its just like a police jawan killed or a fire fighter killed in his line of duty, WHY ONLY ARMY makes a FUSS and BIG DEAL about it?
– If this video had POLICE showing brutality, would you come to defend police? I think you wont even shit on it. Because for ARMY police is like a *****
So next time your try advocating a WRONG DOING by ARMY, know you will get it back at your face.
FULL STOP !!
@MB
before i say anything, i didnt discriminated between an officer and a sepoy, its Pakistan Army…. the officer sepoy casualty ratio of during this operaton is highest in world!
[Dude firstly, if your military a** are tired filling dollars into their EMPIRE, why not Awab making some bucks too? Thats his democratic right , nai ??]
so u agree he doing all this for making bucks!!!
secondly if u know any one by person, please dont tkae his side if he is doing wrong, other wise u have to eat his vomited shit!
Yes i agree, the people of Pakistan are the owner, but dont forget that army is the protector of country after Allah!
ofcource being army as a servant there is no doubt…here in this case too, army was sent by ur civilian government orders when the locals of the area needed help! army totally acted on government orders! and its completing their task!
"watan ki khatir jan dy di" these seem to be simple words when uttered by a mouth like yours, but practically… its beyond your imaginations!
– Political workers!! huh… these 3rd rated people when find nothing, then they join politics… they are bunch of stealers, murderers and filthy peoples… recent examples are shumaila rana, firdaus etc etc…. and above all.. u love ZARDARI! who dont get tired by filling his a** for $$$$$…the most filthiest people of Pakistan are in politics!
– i havnt said any thing about fire fighters….please stick to topic!
– MB, if there was just a sepoy beating those taliban, was it fine to u? do u have problem with the beating or with that officer?
– Little investment!! try not to come home one day and off ur cell phone, then see the what happens! man for God sake…if u have that much shit, why dont u go to swat and see the conditions for ur self????? if u have guts go n join army, u will come to know how much little investment is it!!! Salute to those mothers and fathers whose sons have joined army to protect ur a** and shit with peace!
– if there was police, i would be much more happy then m now…at least for the first time they would have done a good job!!
those talibans deserv much more then this!!
ever thought of recievng ur brother's, friends or near ones body without head? cut in parts? seen video of his killing??
no man, u even cant imagine!!! Pak army has seen worse then this! the place where ur thinking stops, from there the torture of talibans start!!!
next time you try to shit about ur Army who protects a**, 1st think of ur brother or ur son if he was there in the custody of taliban!!!
i hope you got ur answer back to your a***
Pakistan Army Zindabad
Pakistan Paindabad
@salman
" the officer sepoy casualty ratio of during this operaton is Another way to look it at is INCOMPETENCY fellow, what to boast about it.
" so u agree he doing all this for making bucks!!! "
Please read it again, it was for your argument's sake, since you assumed he is making bucks outa this video.
He uttered some good sense, you uttered some shit without providing what "WRONG" he did by posting this vid. You have no point on that, just because the vid goes against the ARMY it became "WRONG" for you which by common sense is some horrible shit logic on your side.
" the protector of country after Allah "
Is it why the interior PAKISTAN feudals beat the crap outa villagers since they are also the protectors after ALLAH? I mean being a protector "under constitution" and being A DAD "outa constitution" are two different things, and in our history they have tried to be DAD.
If the political workers are 3rd rated its because its YOUR ARMY which has hijacked democracy and has installed puppets like ZARDARI NAWAZ ALTAF MMA PPP typoz, its your ARMY which conspires to form parties, allies, deals NROz and all.
Its these political workers are 3rd type its because its your ARMY which is run by MENTALLY sick AND CORRUPT people like BAIGZ,TARIQ AZIZ, HAMID GULZ, DURRANIZ and QURESHIZ
Dude they are 3rd rated because its your ARMY which doesnt allows genuine political worker to come up and drag them by fabricating accusations in the name of "NATIONAL SECURITY" and then come up shits like Jinah pur, compromising nuclear program, Helping RAW against Khalistan movement, and all that crap in balochistan.
Dude before calling these politcal workers shit do read his to see who "DESINGED" conspired, broke, form, hijacked, and interfered to form a MIXTURE of ugly thugs in POLITICAL ARENA.
You shit first and then disown it, THATS YOUR TYPICAL MILITARY MENTALITY, create MQM and then call it traitor, do deals with PPP and bring them in power (1988) and then call them a security risk , form PML/IJI and all of sudden they are now anti-ARMY.
[ do u have problem with the beating or with that officer? ]
I have a problem with THIS FEUDAL MILITARY SETUP
This is just one incident, which slipped outa army filters, we are yet to find what "karnamaz" our jawanz have been doing since 6 decades.
[ Salute to those mothers and fathers whose sons have joined army to protect ur a** and shit with peace ]
Well, a SALUTE, yes i will do a salute but THAT IS IT
i wont then hand over my a** to them now, and say hey since your saved it from the TALIBAN now its yours so come over, **** me
Got the logic?
Anyone crossing his constitutional limit WILL BE CRITICIZED. And if its ARMY in this case, same rules apply.
[ ever thought of recievng ur brother’s, friends or near ones body without head? cut in parts? seen video of his killing?? ]
Does thinking of that thought justifies the WRONG doings?
What the nonsense point in it?
Why you are preaching on TALIBAN wrong doings here?
Who is advocating the TALIBANs here ?
You asking me to imagine the JAWANZ killed by TERRORITs to be my bros and family members and wondering how would i feel like.
I reverse the question – You start thinking these people like your family members and now i wonder how you would feel like if your father/brother is beaten like this in front of you, JUST BECAUSE THE RETARD OFFICER wants to get some BULLSHIT info outa you. . .
The simple POINT is, if these men are in anyway helping taliban or involved in wrong doing, bring them to justice BY PROPER CHANNEL, not beating the crap outa them so they "manufacture" some stories to get rid of the beating, EVEN if they are innocents. Since they know the ARMY officer ordering it JUST WANTs to get some (right or wrong) info outa them.
It seems my comment was not liked by Awab as I can't read it anymore.
So if she is sister of Ather MinAllah then does it give her license to be an ignorant and stupid? I don't think so. Crooks like Samar MinAllah and other NGOS who are fed by Western orgs always act like a propaganda machines for their masters. She whined because she was asked to do it. People like her are perfect example of the vulgar song of Noor Jehan,"Menu Nota Vakha tay mera mood banay".
@Unaiza: if this blog is all about lies then why on earth do you visit it?
man u expect a party during interrogation?????
be a man… dont be cc!
what do u mean by a proper channel???
do u think they will vomit anything about taliban and other butchers????
no!!
[” the officer sepoy casualty ratio of during this operaton is Another way to look it at is INCOMPETENCY fellow, what to boast about it.]
shame on ur pathetic thinking! this shows how a sepoy and an officer fight shoulder to shoulder to protect ur a**
listen, i dont have ne problem with the video, but i have problem that the video is depicted in a wrong way! u got some sort of girlish heart! its an interrogation going on….its a the proper way to deal with these talibans!
[I reverse the question – You start thinking these people like your family members and now i wonder how you would feel like if your father/brother is beaten like this in front of you]
when my social circle isnt invloved in such activity or helping taliban would i think like this?
u cant think of those army ppl who have recieved there family bodies cut in to parts because u r girlish person…. u cant think of joining army its quite above ur personality and defending the nation!
i cant think them as my father/bro being because a talib is not in my social circle…. and u cant think recieving bodies because joining army and defending ur nation is not in ur social cirlce… thats the difference!
be a MAN!
we must support Pak army as we are totally dependent on them not on our third rated politician [Salman Asghar]
====================
Dear Salman Sahab,
This may help in easing down the sudden bout of Patriotism!
* November 16, 2001 [search Daily Dawn Archive and if not possible then try the archive of Reporters Sans Frontières (Reporters without Borders)
Army officer in Islamabad assaulted Dawn reporter Faraz Hashmi after their cars bumped on the road. The police refused to register a case on Hashmi's request and the attack, which left him injured, came just days after he put an uncomfortable question to President Pervez Musharraf in a press conference, which visibly infuriated the president [questions were asked about the incoming US AID [READ BLOOD MONEY] to Military Dictator.
Where has US aid to Pakistan gone? Mariana Baabar
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/10/where-ha…
we must support Pak army as we are totally dependent on them not on our third rated politician [Salman Asghar]
====================
For this????
Chapter 1
The Moral Aspect
Introductory
In Chapter I of Part V of the Main Report, we have dealt at some length with the moral aspect of the causes of our defeat in the 1971 War. This became necessary in view of the vehement assertions made before the Commission by a large number of respectable witnesses drawn from various sections of society, including highly placed and responsible Service Officers, to the effect that due to corruption arising out of the performance of Martial Law duties, lust for wine and women and greed for lands and houses, a large number of senior Army Officers, particularly those occupying the highest positions, had not only lost the will to fight but also the professional competence necessary for taking the vital and critical decisions demanded of them for the successful prosecution of the war. It was asserted by these witnesses that men given to a disreputable way of life could hardly be expected to lead the Pakistan Army to victory.
Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report
http://www.bangla2000.com/Bangladesh/Independence…
Yes i agree, the people of Pakistan are the owner, but dont forget that army is the protector of country after Allah [Salman Asghar]
============================
No you are wrong. If you are bringing Allah in all this then let me tell you that Allah is sufficient for anybody destruction or defence and Allah doesn't need any help from anybody [particularly the vile army].
وَإِن يَمْسَسْكَ اللّهُ بِضُرٍّ فَلاَ كَاشِفَ لَهُ إِلاَّ هُوَ وَإِن يَمْسَسْكَ بِخَيْرٍ فَهُوَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدُيرٌ
If Allah touch thee with affliction, there is none that can relieve therefrom save Him, and if He touch thee with good fortune (there is none that can impair it); for He is Able to do all things. [AL-ANAAM (CATTLE, LIVESTOCK) Chapter 6 Verse 17]
Listen, its not my job to lecture you on "PROPER CHANNEL" Kindly see a lawyer on it. The law is simple, if there is any proof bring them to court of law, present the proof, get them into jail.
[ shame on ur pathetic thinking ]
If your thinking horizon is limited, its not my problem
I am just letting your know, there can be other side of one picture. If you feel happy with a side that comforts you, you can happily be an ostrich.
[ its a the proper way to deal with these talibans ]
What proof you have of them being taliban?
Just because they are oridnary bearded person and not a SON/DAUGHTER/NIECE/NEWPHEW of a BRIG. COLONEL etc. right?
And being girlish is better than being ANIMAL ? Na ?
As for thinking them of being your family etc. If you cant think as such them dont hurl your wisdom on us PURELY ON ASSUMPTIONs. If you cant think, dont tell others as such.
[ u cant think recieving bodies because joining army and defending ur nation is not in ur social cirlce ]
Like i said, dont make assumptions about people you dont know, Receiving bodies dont make you brave. We still rmember 71. So stop uttering nonsense. If thats the criteria of your reasoning then TALIBAN are supposed to be the MOST BRAVE.
When your false patriotic sense cools down, think about this video as a neutral person and then reply.
@Amir Mughal
[ November 16, 2001 …………..(Reporters without Borders)]
Sir aap kiun individual cases quote ker rahe hain. If this is so then there can be a 3 hour documentary on all (hundreds of them) people our establishment killed or sold to USA in WAR-ON-TERROR crap.
es ka koi faida nai, agar SALMAB saheb newspaper padhtey toh unko ye sab pehle pata hota , magar wo jis tarah "zabardasti" aik WRONG ko apni "mahan" wisdom se justify kerne ki koshish ker rahe hain looks like wo sirf ISSB ki entry books or 6 SEP. ke patriotic songs se bahar nikal nahi paai hain.
Unko ye baat samaj hee nahi arahi hai ki hum ARMY ki respect kerte hain . . . us ARMY ki jo CONSTITUTION ko respect kerti ho . . or jo na kerti ho wo zaleel honey ke liye bhi tayar rahe or hamain EMOTIONAL lectures na dey.
hats off to Pakistan Army….
may not be related to this video but surely its an attempt to bring some sense in blind supporters of army.
(The article presents the views of Air Marshal (R) Noor Khan on 1965 war)
http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/42751/33125
If you don't have time to read the whole then read this important part:
“The performance of the Army did not match that of the PAF mainly because the leadership was not as professional. They had planned the ‘Operation Gibraltar’ for self-glory rather than in the national interest. It was a wrong war. And they misled the nation with a big lie that India rather than Pakistan had provoked the war and that we were the victims of Indian aggression”, Air Marshal Khan said.
When on the second day of war President Gen Ayub wanted to know how we were faring, Musa informed him that the Army had run out of even ammunition. That was the extent of preparation in the Army. And the information had shocked Gen Ayub so much that it could have triggered his heart ailment, which overtook him a couple of years later.
This in short is Nur Khan’s version of 1965 war, which he calls an unnecessary war and says that President Ayub for whom he has the greatest regard should have held his senior generals accountable for the debacle and himself resigned.
The performance of the Army did not match that of the PAF mainly because the leadership was not as professional. [Faisal]
===================
Their Professionalism can be seen only in Conspiracies!
As per Teeth Maestro's Favourite Rauf Klasra
Weren’t they supposed to call on generals? By Rauf Klasra
Saturday, October 10, 2009
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id…
The sources even claimed that these frequent secret meetings between the top leaders of PML-N and the Chief of Army Staff as confirmed by Ch Nisar Ali Khan in his speech in the lower house the other day, might well have given the required confidence to the top guns of the GHQ to send the tersely worded press note to the media after the corps commanders meeting.
The sources said that the departure of the Army chief from his earlier tall claims of not getting himself involved in the political matters of the country after he took oath in 2007 had greatly shaken the confidence of this chain of command in the promises of top military brass, which had doled out commitments to the nation and the media of staying away from the politics.
The performance of the Army did not match that of the PAF mainly because the leadership was not as professional. [Faisal]
================
Professionalism at its best!
A BLAST FROM THE PAST:
CHRONOLOGICAL HISTORY OF 12 OCTOBER 1999
One will be amazed to know that General Musharraf wasn't physically involved [he was in the air riding airplane with then Brigadier Nadeem Taj who is now Lt General Nadeem Taj]in Occupying his own country and people but following characters were thoroughly involved in 12 Oct 1999 Military Mutiny against the Elected Government of 160 Million Pakistanis:
General Hamid Gul: "The army acted in the national interest" [LISTEN]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/473297.stm
Pakistan's coup: The 17-hour victory
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/475195.stm
now or never…
@Amir
I must say i am impressed by your collection of references 🙂
Salman,
You said:
……, army was sent by ur civilian government orders when the locals of the area needed help! army totally acted on government orders! and its completing their task!
and then you said:
….these 3rd rated people when find nothing, then they join politics… they are bunch of stealers, murderers and filthy peoples… recent examples are shumaila rana, firdaus etc etc…. and above all.. u love ZARDARI! who dont get tired by filling his a** for $$$$$…the most filthiest people of Pakistan are in politics!
at one place you curse Zardari and other politicians and workers and then you say that the civilians govt. has ordered this operation….and at another point you said that the operation is in the interest of the country
If Zardari has ordered this, then Zardari is working for the interest of the country and Kiyani (senseless of the country's interest) is not a hero rather just doing his job, what he is paid for.
OR
Zardari is making $$$$$$ (as you said) so Kiyani must be making some too? he is following the orders of a crook.
You are not clear in your thought process. Your blind support for Pakistan army has made you blind and ignorant
@Amir I must say i am impressed by your collection of references 🙂 [MB]
=====================
Thanks, I am humbled.
In response to comment by skeptic at 9:03am:
First he brings on a make-belief assumption about Army, then draws up a conclusion, and then asks others to endorse his beliefs. Any doubt left about this person's state of mind?
The same argument can be as easily brought forward about lawyers, about journalists, about politicians and practically about everyone.
Hey hey Amir Mughal saheb, take it easy . . You just ditched the blind-ARMY lover 6 feet under the ground.
ye na ho ki wo local cantt station ja ker aap ke "gadaar" hone ka certificate issue kervade ya ye "PROVE" kerde ki you are a "NATIONAL SECURITY" risk or may be some ISREALI AGENT. .lolllll you know typical MILITARY mentality . .
"bloody civilians" :):)
es mulk mai logun ke 2 fav time pass hain :
aik jis se faith na milta ho usko "Kafir" declare kerna
aik jis se soch na milti ho usko "gaddar" kehna
@Amir
y dont u write a book or make ur own blog or website sure u r an encyclopedia of Pakistan history 😀
@Amir y dont u write a book or make ur own blog or website sure u r an encyclopedia of Pakistan history 😀 [Faisal]
===================
Dear Faisal Sahab,
Thanks for your compliment. I am honoured and humbled by your comment. I am not an Scholar at all and books are written by Scholars. I just compile and collect information and try to share with others.
I have my blog http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/ and posts therein are basically my exchange of mails with different people. I have just put all these mails and counter mails from 2002 to 2008 in the shape of blog. These are basically my conversation with different persons.
Thanks again for your appreciative comment.
Regards
ye na ho ki wo local cantt station ja ker aap ke “gadaar” hone ka certificate issue kervade ya ye “PROVE” kerde ki you are a “NATIONAL SECURITY” risk or may be some ISREALI AGENT. .lolllll you know typical MILITARY mentality . .
“bloody civilians” :):)[MB]
======================
Dear MB,
LOL – Anybody is at liberty to do as you have suggested above, they are more than welcome because I am not in hiding my profile/picture are on my blog.
Declaration of being me an Israeli/CIA/Indian Agent wont do [go through my blog and you find that I have collection on Israeli/Zionist Extremism and Hindu Extremism as well.
Regards
What Pakistan Army is doing is not even a point percent of a single drop of tear from a mother’s eye of a martyred son, not a point percent of feelings of father burying his young son. Check out the answer of your topic here
http://paknpak.com/pakistan-army-vs-human-rights-…
@Salman
I have replied there but the comment may/may not appear there so i will post it here :
"" This is interesting, the same taliban were the miracle GOD-send children of our ARMY in 1996 when they captured KABUL. Our same ARMY hoasted them as their kids and Fazl-ur-Rehman proudly told everyone that its his madressa children. People like Hamid gul and then ISI officers boasted their achievements (kinder refer to all Jawabdeh programs which iftikhar has done with former MILITARY officers including a recent one in which a colonel still proudly tell about his children and their achievements in AFGHANISTAN)
Stop lecturing these emotional rhetoric. Agar saanp palo gay toh aisa hee hoga. Why these TALIBAN were not bad for you when they were slitting the throats of the afghaniz when they were hanging the dead bodies on electricity poles in kabul . At that time these talibans were the hero’s of our ARMY and now when the snakes have come back home all of sudden PATRIOTIC rhetoric is being flooded on national channels by ISPR and ARMY.
what about the mothers fathers daughters and sons of the ones killed by YOUR TALIBAN hero’s in Afghanistan from 94 – 2001 ? Dont they posses tears? , jo ab ye jazbaati batain kerke aap awaam ko bewaquf bana rahe ho.
jo fasal aap ne boi thi 20 saal pehle ab wo kaat rahe ho so stop bullshitting ""
@ before i could reply..some els already replied to ur comment
hats off to Pakistan Army….[Salman]
=========================
خوفزدہ دہشت گرد !
وسعت اللہ خان
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/columns/2009/10/091011_…
اگر مذکورہ سرکاری بیانات پر یقین کرلیا جائے تو پھر جی ایچ کیو راولپنڈی پر ہونے والا حملہ سمجھنے میں کوئی مشکل نہیں ہونی چاہئے۔یعنی درجن بھر دہشت گردوں نے ایک ماہ قبل اسلام آباد کے نزدیک اعوان ٹاؤن میں ’گھبرا‘ کر ایک مکان کرائے پر لیا۔ بیس پچیس روز تک ’ بدحواسی‘ کے عالم میں جائے واردات کے نقشے بنائے اور جی ایچ کیو کے اطراف سروے کیا۔’انتہائی خوفزدہ‘ ہوکر فوجی ودریاں پہنیں اور ’دہشت زدہ‘ ہوکرایک موٹر سائیکل اور سوزوکی وین میں جی ایچ کیو کی دو حفاظتی چوکیاں پار کیں اور کانپتے ہاتھوں سے دو گرینیڈ پھینک کر چھ فوجی افسروں اور جوانوں کو ہلاک کردیا۔
obviously it was a drama!!!
if my guess is not incorrect, this drama was staged to kill that brigadier.
Every military dictator in Pakistan needed some justification for the coup and to perpetuate his rule. General Musharraf was no exception. And he began to rope in some of the politicians and seasonal manipulators. One of them was constitutional expert Shariffudin Pirzada who had assisted General Ziaul Haq as well.
”I was called by General Musharraf. I went there. Some corps commanders wanted to impose the Martial Law. I insisted that General Musharraf should become the chief executive and also retain the president for continuity of the system,” Pirzada recalls.
He asserts that it was then feared that some of the apex court judges might pass a judgment against General Musharraf. ”Only then it was decided to ask the judges to take oath under the PCO. Four judges were not invited to take the oath,” he says.
Among the PCO judges was Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, the present Chief Justice of Pakistan. He was among the judges who not only validated General Musharraf’s coup, but allowed him to amend the Constitution.
Watch Shahzad Raza’s documentary: Making of a coup, on DawnNews today at 1530 and 2330 hours.
Back to the future? Countdown to the Oct 12 coup By Shahzad Raza Monday, 12 Oct, 2009 | 07:13 AM PST
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-…
obviously it was a drama!!![dr jawwad khan]
=========================
I agree with Jawad Sahab that there is something fishy in all this. First the emrgence of Interrogation Video, Kerry Lugar Bill, Blast in Indian Embassy in Kabul, Blast in Peshawar and latest is attack on GHQ????
GHQ Attack: Security Failure Needs To Be Investigated by Azfar-ul-Ashfaque – The writer is a journalist associated with Dawn.
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/10/ghq-atta…
the army deserved this attack and even more
these scoundrels only respect the language of brute force…
and i don't believe that it was a drama…what incentive would the army or establishment have in giving a slap on its own face…that too at the hands of a bunch of youngsters…
shame on pakistan army…kiyani must have peed in his pants all day long.
shame on pakistan army…[abdullah khan]
==============================
Yes indeed, after using some Mullahs for the so-called Strategic Depths [shame on you Rascal Mirza Aslam Beg and Naseerullah Babar as well] they blame Madressahs and Mullahs for every ill. They are wrong…
Read..
The fear of an Islamic threat has been the driving force behind most Western countries’ foreign policies toward Pakistan in recent years. The possibility that violent Islamists will kill President Pervez Musharraf, throw Pakistan into turmoil, take over the country and its nuclear weapons, and escalate regional terrorism has dominated the psychological and political landscape. Such fears have usually led to support of the Pakistani military as the only institution able to contain the danger. But the Islamist threat is neither as great nor as autonomous as many assume. True, Pakistan has experienced more than its share of religious violence, both sectarian and jihadi. But serious law-and-order problems do not mean the fate of the state is at stake. No Islamic organization has ever been in a position to politically or militarily challenge the role of the one and only center of power in Pakistan: the army. On the contrary, the Pakistani Army has used Islamic organizations for its purposes, both at home and abroad. Islamist organizations balance the power of rival mainstream political parties, preserving the army’s role as national arbiter. The army has nurtured and sometimes deployed violent Islamists in Afghanistan (with U.S. support at first), Kashmir, and other hot spots on the subcontinent.
Pakistan: The Myth of an Islamist Peril By Frederic Grare Publisher: Carnegie Endowment Policy Brief #45, February 2006 Click on link for the full text of this Carnegie Paper
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/files/45.grare.f…
Dr. Jawwad,
I agree. I wonder if that killed brigadier had expressed his view against the upcoming operation in Waziristan.
Accidents happen, just like they way Meer Mushaf (Air Chief) who opposed Musharraf and Just like the other Kiyani (who opposed Musharraf in a famous CSS officers case) died of a mysterious disease in just one month.
Some thing is cooking and we seem to be helpless.
May Allah forgive our sins and take away this humiliation from our country, Ameeen.
The thing is its our people on both sides of the fight, whether we agree with them or not.
May Allah forgive our sins and take away this humiliation from our country, Ameeen. The thing is its our people on both sides of the fight, whether we agree with them or not. [junaid]
================
A'ameen
at one side u beg for army and other side u hate it?? jao dafa ho jao india… odher he raho…. u dont deserve a nation of ur own!
@salman asghar!
do you know why there is such a level of distrust against our own army? because our army betrayed our nation and committed many unforgivable crimes
1) they engaged themselves in a war against its own people just in a state of fear.in order to survive they started killing them. they were so obedient that they even took the blame of crimes committed by american army just to prove that they are defenders of the country.
2) they kidnaped many innocent pakistanis and sell them just for dollars.now those pakistanis are on the mercy of americans.
3) high ranking army officers are involved in corruptions much bigger then corruption of asif zardari.all the valueable lands are under control of retired army officers.
the bussines run by rtd generals never suffer the loses like civilians does. they are running the businesses fertilizers,sugar mills,petrol pumps even bakeries instead of gaurding the nation.
4) drone attacks are especially the damaging one.so called world no 3rd army watching the drone attacks helplessly.these drone attacks especially put a question mark moral reasons of the existence of army.
5) they violate their oaths and constitution of pakistan in a very obnoxious and nauseating way.
6) they(top brass) are devoid of national pride,patriotism and professionalism.
7) they have a superiority complex against the civilians(many of us have a personal experience)
and they show extreme degree of inferiority complex when it comes to america.
8) tendency of use of bruital force against its own people on the issues which could be solved by negotiations. akbar bugti is a near past example
tell me what are the arguments in the defence of pakistan army?
This weekend’s dramatic attack on the army headquarters in Rawalpindi, the military center of Pakistan, underscores the volatility and fragility of politics in the world’s second largest Muslim country. The Taliban attackers demonstrated that despite losing the campaign in the Swat Valley this summer, they retain the capacity for terror in the heart of Pakistan – striking, in effect, into the Pentagon of Pakistan. And the attack, which left 16 dead, will almost certainly revive concerns about the capacity of the Pakistani army to protect its nuclear arsenal. If the Taliban can get into army headquarters, where else might it strike next?
http://ahraza.wordpress.com/2009/10/12/pakistan-t…
Excellent Jawwad Sahab
7) they have a superiority complex against the civilians(many of us have a personal experience)[dr jawwad khan]
=======================
Minor Example:
Some 6 years ago Chaudary Nisar Ali Khan {Pakistan Muslim League Nawaz Sharif} in an interview with Dr. Shahid Masood for his program Views on News on ARY ONE said that after illegally toppling the elected government of Mian Nawaz Sharif on 12 Oct 1999’s Military Mutiny, General Mehmood Ahmed {The Former ISI Chief} took Nawaz Sharif {the elected Prime Minister of 150 Million Pakistanis} to Army Barracks where he was forced to sign some papers which Nawaz didn’t and naturally Nawaz and his family sealed their fate. That happened with Nawaz Sharif once before when during 1993’s political crisis when Nawaz Sharif in his live speech had said without taking the name of the then President Ghulam Ishaq Khan {actually Army} that he {Nawaz} will not take dictation and later on the Invisible Hands succeeded in getting resignation from Nawaz Sharif. In a meeting where both Nawaz and Ghulam Ishaq Khan were present with several Army Generals, Nawaz tried to leave the room when a General stopped him using a very Fancy Army Stick and forced that stick on Nawaz’s shoulder and made him sit down.
{Reference: Agenciyon Ki Hukoomat by Late. Azher Suhail published by Jang Publishers Pakistan}.
Far worse thing happened with Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s dead body who was murdered by General Zia, Judiciary and USA. On the orders of General Ziaul Haq an army officer checked the Private Parts of Bhutto’s Body to make sure that Bhutto was really a Muslim [Colonel Retd. Rafi Interview in Newspaper and on GEO TV too in 2008] and they made it sure.
at one side u beg for army and other side u hate it?? jao dafa ho jao india… odher he raho…. u dont deserve a nation of ur own![salman asghar!]
=========================
Dear Salman Sahab,
If our Former Chief of Army Staff the Rascal Musharraf was so brave that then what was the need of the damn Kargil Operation [a suicidal and ill advised operation] when he would have to shake hand with Atal Bihari Vajpai and for this hand shake the Military Establishment sacked Nawaz Sharif to pave the way for the worst era for the new Pakistan [Jinnah's Pakistan died in 1971]
USATODAY.com – Musharraf, Vajpayee shake hands at summit
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002/05/india-pakista...
high ranking army officers are involved in corruptions much bigger then corruption of asif zardari.all the valueable lands are under control of retired army officers.[dr jawwad khan]
========================
Jawwad Sahab is correct to the hilt:
Soiled Hands: The Pakistan Army's Repression of the Punjab Farmers …
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2004/pakistan0704/
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2004/pakistan0704/pakistan070...
Accidents happen, who opposed Musharraf and Just like the other Kiyani (who opposed Musharraf in a famous CSS officers case)[Junaid]
==========================
Dear Junaid Saha,
Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani never opposed Musharraf rather he was part and parcel of Musharraf Package [if you are deceived by his last days TV Programs against Musharraf then dont be deceived because these programs were Eye Wash]
Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani did get Prize Posting during Musharraf's Tenure and he number 2 in ISI when that Damn Kargil happened.
The real reason behind this sudden love of Lt General Retd. Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani for Constitution, Civil Liberties, Democracy, Rule of Law, and Independent Judiciary in Pakistan is nothing but Monetary Benefits for the Ex Servicemen Society and hiding the Criminal Past of many in Servicemen Society. These men have earned Millions if not billions under the same General Musharraf whom they want to try for treason. General Jamshed never mentioned Operation Cleanup in Baluchistan [aren't these Baluchs Pakistanis? and by mistake they also happen to be Muslims as well] particularly the Extra Judicial Killing of Sardar Akbar Bugti [if he was guilty then he should have been put on trial even in the Military Court]. General Jamshed restricted himself to Lal Mosque and Kargil [isn't Baluchistan in Pakistan?], why? Does military training snatch the sense of history, passion, and mercy.
"QUOTE"
Dr. Ayesha Siddiqa Agha [Defence Expert]
The wannabe heroes By Ayesha Siddiqa June 13, 2008 Friday Jamadi-us-Sani 08, 1429
So, the onlookers have to be careful in distinguishing between the need to investigate the Kargil crisis and the actual intent of people like Gen Jamsheed Gulzar Kiyani and others in telling the story now. The good general sat silent all these years enjoying his stint as head of Fauji Foundation’s company Marri Gas and then as the chairman of the Federal Public Services Commission. The question is that why didn’t he ask any question then? The retired officers defended the economic, political and social power of the armed forces and defended the organisation’s control of the state. They even mentioned the military’s right to ten per cent jobs as granted by the constitution which is an absolute fallacy. The ten per cent quota was granted by Gen Ziaul Haq and is mentioned in the Establishment code of the government and not in the constitution.
"UNQUOTE"
Anjum Niaz, Columnist Daily Dawn – Pakistan.
DATELINE ISLAMABAD: Angry old men [June 15, 2008, Daily Dawn Sunday Magazine] By Anjum Niaz
An ex-servicemen society has been launched. Alas, a watering hole has been provided for these endangered species who fear extinction unless they strut about and flap their tired old feathers trying to make waves.
Do men have a bad hair day? The four I watched last week on television certainly appeared as having one. Getting into each other’s hair, the quartet exposed itself to being men of straw and not steel as they have always tried portraying themselves.
Bereft of uniform and all the trappings that go with an army general, they came across churlish, even infantile. Why do retired generals get hardened and macabre? Why do their eyes turn flinty and laser hate, venom and anger? Why do they dye their hair boot-polish black? Why do they blow dry it? Why do some (Pervez Musharraf and Rashid Qureshi) wear their hair in a bouffant while Gulzar Jamshed Kiani prefers a funny mop that sits uncannily on his forehead?
Looks aside, what’s in a name? Plenty! President Musharraf and his spokesman, hawk-eyed General (retd) Qureshi beat one point to death last week: why had Jamshed Gulzar (JG) decided to add the suffix Kiani after his name? Both said that since the real McCoy was a Kayani, as in Army Chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, JG of late started calling himself JGK! Imagine the ‘impudence!’ Musharraf went to the extent of saying that this chap who is now calling for Musharraf’s impeachment came from a humble background and it’s the army that gave him distinction. JG must not forget his pedestrian antecedents. Ahem… Musharraf himself comes from a similar background.
The last general under discussion is Hamid Gul. He always looks and acts very angry. What’s his problem? Other than making umpteen TV appearances and putting himself on a pedestal, high above everyone else, what great service has this general done ever since he left the army? Sinister things happened when he was at the helm. Sketching doomsday scenario is all this one can do.
An ex-servicemen society has been launched. Hurrah and three cheers! Alas, a watering hole has been provided for these endangered species who fear extinction unless they strut about and flap their tired old feathers trying to make waves. Leading this retired pack are retired generals Faiz Ali Chisti (whose name sent shivers down our spines during Zia days); Aslam Beg (an arrogant iconoclast) and Asad Durrani (slippery as an eel).
These men have skeletons rattling in their cupboards and the one who has threatened to open up their cupboards to show us the skeletons is none other than Pervez Musharraf. He says it’s a long tale consuming “weeks of revelation” on these ‘unsavoury’ characters and the ‘dirty role’ they played while in service.
8) tendency of use of bruital force against its own people on the issues which could be solved by negotiations. akbar bugti is a near past example tell me what are the arguments in the defence of pakistan army? [Dr Jawwad Khan]
========================
Professionalism at its best!!!!
فوجی بغاوت کی یاد: تصاویر
بارہ اکتوبر کی یاد
Wednesday, 7 october, 2009, 13:37 GMT 18:37 PST
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/india/2009/10/091012_pi…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/indepth/cluster_coup_10…
’بتایا تھا وزیراعظم کو موقع نہیں ملے گا‘
علی سلمان
بی بی سی اردو ڈاٹ کام، لاہور
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2009/10/091009…
نذیر ناجی بغاوت کے وقت وزیراعظم کے تقریر نویس تھے
پاکستان کے معروف کالم نگار نذیرناجی نے کہا ہے کہ بارہ نومبر سنہ انیس سو ننانوے کو پاکستان کے وزیراعظم میاں نواز شریف اپنی تقریر میں چیف آف آرمی سٹاف پرویز مشرف کو بھارت سے امن عمل کو تباہ کرنے کی چارج شیٹ جاری کرنے والے تھے لیکن انہیں قوم سے خطاب سے قبل ہی گرفتار کرلیا گیا۔
نذیر ناجی ان افراد میں شامل ہیں جنہیں بارہ اکتوبر سنہ ننانوے کو فوجی بغاوت کے بعد وزیر اعظم ہاؤس سے گرفتار کیا گیا اور انہیں پوچھ گچھ کے طویل عمل سےگذرنا پڑا۔
7) they have a superiority complex against the civilians(many of us have a personal experience) and they show extreme degree of inferiority complex when it comes to america. [Dr Jawwad Khan]
=======================
Correct!
Our Rommels and Guderians are not about to alight from their top of the line BMWs and Mercedes and climb into Suzuki Mehrans.
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-…
I give below verbatim (parenthesis mine) an exact copy, but slightly abbreviated, of a Top Secret but now declassified (vide NND 959417 14/1/93) letter written by Gen Mohammad Ayub Khan, C-in-C of the Pakistan Army, to Admiral Arthur Radford, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff, Pentagon [sic], Washington D.C. (Please read at http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/pakistan/ayubkhan27…
Minor Correction in the link:
I give below verbatim (parenthesis mine) an exact copy, but slightly abbreviated, of a Top Secret but now declassified (vide NND 959417 14/1/93) letter written by Gen Mohammad Ayub Khan, C-in-C of the Pakistan Army, to Admiral Arthur Radford, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff, Pentagon [sic], Washington D.C.
http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/pakistan/ayubkhan27…
Fantastic Amir Mughal
The patiance and to bring up the facts.
———–
Majority of Pakistani people just live in the vaccums.Their politics ,religion and every day reality are all in separate boxes.
We think little and at our best we just become angry ,shout,yell ,brake the stuff and than we loose of course but we have to blame someone for our failures ;now the politicians have given us a scape goat ;Pakistan army.
I am not trying to protect army but army is the strongest defence system of any country.
Before the use of shamefully abused word DEMOCRACY let the politicians come up with one political system.
I am so confused;
Mr.Bhutto was chief Martial Law Administrator
He was the president
He was the prime minister
Now Benazir was Prime Minsiter ,Zardari from the same party wants to stay President.
Ask the Shriefs,they would like to be the Presidents as well.
Kerry Lugar bill is the first issue which has been discussed by the people and in the assembly but it seems it will go ahead………against the public wishes…..
So which Democracy people talk about in Pakistan.
The struggle of Nawaz,Zardari,Benazir and the Judiciary was great struggle but how did it change the human condition or improved the circumstances of the poor .
It is most apt to say it was their struggle for power not for people.
——-
Mr Aitzaaz Ahsan ,wrote the tarans and sang them as well fighting for justice,if it was humanitarian movement where is he now?????
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Civil movements have to be run by people of substance ,not by oppertunists and sadly Pakistan has a system where only teh oppertunists can progress and come forward.
——–
IS it not true to say it is TALIBAN sort of Democracy in Pakistan,at least the people with heavey muscle and deep pockets can come only into politics …..I see no difference in the strategy of both …….
PUT UP or Shut up or else we have got the guns.
There are two institutions functioning in Pakistan:
Pakistan army and Mullah
Both will be distroyed by its own people and followers.
Attack on GHQ ……..
Was a warning .People of Pakistan have a choice,shun your army and accept Talibaan rule.
Afghanistan and Paksitan will be a great specimen of Islamic brotherhood.
Or they can stand behind the army and fight Talibaan?
Before making the decision they must imagine life ,while living with Pakistan army in the Cantts
Or do they prefer a wonderland like Kabul?
I am so glad that young middle class urbanites are also getting the clear message . I am so glad that you guys are not deluded anymore , that you wont just support an institution just because you grew up listening to the songs of its support . I am glad that you guys have the urge to know history other than the textbook of Pakistan history . Oh I am so glad that I see some sense to distinguish between the rights and wrongs .
The army of Pakistan , just like the army of Algeria , Turkey and Egypt are pawns of US Hegemony . This seems like such an overstated statement that people begin to doubt its authenticity . But dont ! .
The only argument that army lovers have is that we need the army , every one knows that army is a requirement for a state like water and food . But why this army ? Why an army that is not working on your interest ? Why an army that has led to oppressive tyranny and is a part of all loathsome activities ! Why this army ?
An army is no good if it cant fight foreign elements , give me one good example where Pakistani army has turned out to be successful ? If it wasnt for diplomacy or Pakistan's everlasting subjugation to western designs Pakistan would have long gone be conquered by any force , let it be india or iran or even afghanistan .
So an army that cant fight anyone but innocent civilians . What is it good for ?
I mean if we just have to depend upon US's sympathy , why then need an army ? Why cant we be like Saudia Arabia ?
Guys, kind of busy lately. will catch in few days
meanwhile amir and crew can pretty much handle the TRUTH side 🙂