In a seminar on the “Education System in Pakistan: Lessons Learned and the Ways Forward” at the Islamic University in Islamabad Dr. Pervaiz Hoodbhoy made a very shocking and controversial statement to state that
The News: “The culture of effective communication was diminishing in universities as the number of female students hiding their faces with Burqa (veil) were rapidly increasing compared to the trends that prevailed during the decade of 60s and 70s”
Dr. Hoodhboy may be a learned professor having detailed insights into the functioning educational system in Pakistan, does definitely have the right to have an opinion, but somehow what makes me wonder, that this forward thinking liberal philosopher must have better appreciation for respecting the right of every individuals, simply the right to express himself/herself on how he/she may dress should ride well with at least this educator, be it tight fitting jeans or a typical top-to-bottom veil with bare minimal opening for the eyes. These women come to the university for education and definitely not to be ogled at by their teachers and fellow students on how they dress.
So when Dr. Hoodbhoy uses the pretext of “hindering the culture of effective communication” makes me want to give the learned gentleman a deserved a solid whack on the knuckles. Why should he be bothered how the girls in his class dress?
Maybe as one facebook commenter rightly pointed out, it might interest the professor to give up his telephone, mobile and email as that too can be a hindrance in face-to-face effective communication. I may respect his right to have an opinion, but for no apparent reason he’s just asking for trouble
Update: Credit to Nadir for clarifying the issue further, there is a definite possibility that the comment published in The News may have been taken out of context, but within the same report it was also reported that some professors also contested Dr. Hoodbhoy’s statement. The exact words used can be a debatable topic
Comments
173 responses to “Pervaiz Hoodbhoy against Burqas in Universities?”
Nazia: You are giving very disjointed arguments & seriously seem confused. First you placed polygamy in the same category as prostitution & now with muttah nikah which have nothing do with each other. The only thing you are sure of is that religion & Islam is to blame for everything.
As it is muttah nikah is not followed by Sunnis who happen to make up the majority of the muslim population. And within the Shia community too there are few who follow it. Half my family is Shia and i don't know of anyone who does. Personally i don't agree with the concept in present times because it can only be used to exploit women from poor backgrounds. No one from a well-off background would agree to give his daughter or sister in muttah nikah to anyone. So only the poor will end up being exploited.
As far as Polygamy is concerned, it was practiced before Islam & still is in many cultures of the world. Islam does not encourage polygamy – it only permits it. There is a big difference. And in our culture it is not common so its not even a major social issue that you are so worried about. I don't know of anyone personally who has more then one wife.
You have to make a distinction between the religion & its followers. You can criticize the followers for not following the religion correctly but you cannot make it a basis to criticize the religion unless you don't want to believe in it. That is your choice then. Everyone is free to believe what they want.
If people do not marry widows & divorcees & prefer unmarried women than that does not mean that the permission to marry more than one woman is to be blamed. If there was no such permission in Islam do you suggest men would magically start preferring widowed & divorced women over virgins? I fail to see the correlation. This is a social & cultural issue & should be dealt with accordingly. It has nothing to do with religion.
You don't have anything new to say here. You are just parroting what western feminists have said for a long time. And look what western societies have turned into. I have read that about 50% of the children in the United States are being bought up in single parent homes – i cannot vouch for the number but i am sure it will be pretty high.
In the US sleeping with as many women as you want & having children with them is not a crime but marrying more then one woman is a crime. Do you even realize the absurdity of these laws?
Men & women have equal rights but it does not mean they are equal. They are different physiologically & psychologically & have different needs. If you want equality in everything than be prepared to give up a lot of the rights you enjoy & live like women in the west where men prefer to live with women without marrying them.
What else could men want? They are getting their physical needs met without the added responsibility if they were to marry the woman. They can get up & leave anytime they want to, leaving the woman to fend for herself & any children that they might have. Marriage would add to the responsibilities so why marry.
If you ask me personally as a man i would definitely prefer such an arrangement. Who wouldn't? But i know these things lead to a breakdown of the family structure & a deterioration in society.
Do you think in societies where polygamy is illegal men don't have relationships with multiple women? Every other day we hear of some actor or sports star or politician in the US getting caught cheating on his wife. Why do they do it? Because they are in positions of power & wealth & there is no legal way around so they end up cheating.
So does banning polygamy solve the problem? Do you really think women are getting freedom this way?
You write: "After discussing to my ladies belong to different cultures, I hardly found a case where woman can think of allowing her husband for 2nd woman as wife.They can even tolerate keep or girl friend but no way such kind of legal permission is allowed happily by any woman."
I can agree with you that most women would rather prefer their husbands to be with them only but again that will not guarantee men will not cheat on their wives. Because those men who do have such urges & the means will most probably cheat because they do not have a legal way around the issue if you have your way.
And again you are not thinking in broader terms. You are thinking in terms of being a wife what you would prefer. If i understand you correctly you say women would rather have their husbands keep girlfriends then have a legal relationship.
You completely miss the broader picture from the point of view of the society. Those mistresses & girlfriends are also women. They also have a right to live a respectable life & have a family & be taken care of. If you place a ban on polygamy it will only guarantee that all these women will not get their due rights in the society. It is never going to stop men sleeping with more than one woman if you want to achieve that.
We have both societies in front of us – those that ban polygamy & those that don't. You can take your pick.
A1
your ID should be A10 as it more suits with your bumpy and humped verbal attack on me.
I have no confusion in my mind and I am only focused on typical Muslim culture.Read carefully it is you who is accusing me of being a western minded creature.
I never ever took any example of any western style or law in this discussion.
I am just pointing hypocrisy of those who mend Islamic laws toward male dominance features.Here you have confirmed my point of views and I fully acknowledge that I am criticizing followers who only sorted religious protection for keeping their supremacy on majority.
You say
Marriage would add to the responsibilities so why marry.
so who is deviating of islamic laws due to irresponsible nature ?
No one from a well-off background would agree to give his daughter or sister in muttah nikah to anyone. So only the poor will end up being exploited.
So again you are stamping on my point of view that weak class is being exploited through another islamic law.It is practiced in many Muslim area like IRAQ, Iran and hamas controlled area.
here I am impressed by your truthfulness at last you have retained some lost courage,
If you ask me personally as a man i would definitely prefer such an arrangement. Who wouldn’t? But i know these things lead to a breakdown of the family structure & a deterioration in society.
That is what I am saying by giving you example of action and reaction are reversible acts.
You think that I am personally against polygamy being a wife.
This was many times discussed in ladies circle and my point of view is quite different that other possessive,religious and violent women.I strongly believe if married man decides to bring second wife or go for extra martial relation no worldly love can stop him doing so and if resistance is created by his family the results would be more devastated.So if wife is in true love with her husband she should allow him for legal options until it was too late and leave him immediately in cordial way after setting her financial support if she cant support her in any way.
For any woman no doubt it is humiliation but if his husband has given her very good precious moments then she has to return her love through such sacrifice.
Usually good nature,humble and rich men are most eligible for 2nd marriages and ladies also want to trap such secure support as young and immature young men are not guarantee of their short cut desires.
What ever law you make like polygamy, stoning to death in case of adultery, whipping etc, hardly it can fear the negative feelings of any human if he or she decide to deviate from his moral and ethics.It can be only improved through healthy family life set up, proper aware culture on the basis of religious norms and lessening indifference attitude through improved rights given to weak genders.
In a small concession, the Lahore High Court on Monday reduced the reporting requirement to 30 minutes but kept the restrictions on talking to the media about nuclear proliferation or the Pakistani weapons programme. Restriction on movements: Govt, Dr Qadeer reach agreement Updated at: 1637 PST, Monday, March 29, 2010 http://www.geo.tv/3-29-2010/61954.htm
The Lahore High Court on Monday said that nuclear scientist Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan is a free man, however he has been barred from talking about nuclear assets or proliferation in any capacity. Lahore High Court declares Dr. AQ Khan a free man Monday, 29 Mar, 2010 http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-…
The only way to repay his beneficence is to make him president of Pakistan and life long head of AQKRL instead of KRL.
long live Dr.Abdul Qadeer Khan. we love you
but kept the restrictions on talking to the media about nuclear proliferation or the Pakistani weapons programme. – [The News] however he has been barred from talking about nuclear assets or proliferation in any capacity.[Dawn]
=========
From The Sunday Times September 20, 2009 Investigation: Nuclear scandal – Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan – The Pakistani scientist who passed nuclear secrets to the world’s rogue states has been muzzled by his government. In a smuggled letter, AQ Khan reveals his side of the story http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/…
I think you have switched under topic of dr hoodbhoy and cursing dr Aq khan.
US is not choocha(chicken) who has ignored all generals at that moments.
They just punished Dr aqkhan for hiding some figures and facts and awarded Musharraf and his team for obeying their orders.
Nuclear deals since the time of creation of bomb was under control of Pak army.It is interesting that gen kadwai and gen mehmood durrani have been removed from posts but both are still playing active role in their last positions.
So I call them CIA working Pakistani agents.These govt servants and uniform men are picked , trained and their pockets are filled for next generations and allowed to work till target is achieved.
That is why thousands were targeted on streets of pindi and peshwar by suicidal bombers but no one think of hitting naseer ullah babar, gen hammeed gul, gen asad durrani, kamal shah, wasi zafar, gen hamid nawaz, ijaz ul haq who were on missions of talibans or anti talibans process.
but kept the restrictions on talking to the media about nuclear proliferation or the Pakistani weapons programme. – [The News] however he has been barred from talking about nuclear assets or proliferation in any capacity.[Dawn]
===================
Court should have hounded the real culprit in the above affair:
After lunch, Nawaz brought up the subject of how Aslam Beg early in 1991 had sought a meeting with him (then prime minister) to which he brought Major-General Asad Durrani, chief of the ISI. They told him that funds for vital on-going covert operations (not identified by Nawaz) were drying up, how they had a foolproof plan to generate money by dealing in drugs. They asked for his permission to associate themselves with the drug trade, assuring him of full secrecy and no chance of any trail leading back to them. Nawaz remarked that on hearing this he felt the roof had caved in on him. He told them he could have nothing to do with such a plan and refused to give his approval. The Washington Post had just broken Kamran’s story and when I asked why it had not broken earlier, he told me how they check and recheck, and that in the meantime, he had been busy with the Mehrangate affair on which, between May and August, he had filed seven stories. We never learn from history By Ardeshir Cowasjee 21 July 2002 Sunday 10 Jamadi-ul-Awwal 1423 http://www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/20020721.htm
Meanwhile, what surprised some was Karamat’s dismissive tone about the A Q Khan affair, which he labeled a “proliferation episode” while denying any government complicity in it. “There was no government sanction, approval, or any kind of government connection with what went on,” he said flatly. But Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan, in his 11-page confession reported in the US press in February, named Karamat, former chief of army staff General (retired) Mirza Aslam Beg and President General Pervez Musharraf as the men on top who were aware of what was going on. As the chief of army staff from 1996-98, Karamat was directly responsible for the safety and security of the nuclear program. Reference: Pakistan lays down the agenda for the US By Seema Sirohi – Seema Sirohi is a Washington-based correspondent. Dated Dec 25, 2004
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/FL25Df01….
Nazia:
I am not tyring to be personal & i apologize if you are offended. But your reply shows what i am talking about when i say you are confused. Now you seem to be supporting polygamy.
I have raised some points in favor of polygamy & have given you a logical explanation of why i think it is better to allow men to have more then one wife then place a legal ban. You continue to look at it from an individual perspective whereas Allah has made laws from the perspective of the society.
Again please make a distinction between practice of muslims & muslim law. Polygamy is permitted, its not encouraged, but it is permitted & all schools of thought agree on this. There are no two opinions on that. So i will strongly disagree with you if you place it in the same category as prostitution. That might be your personal opinion but it is not Islam.
Muttah nikah is a concept that is not followed by a majority of the muslims. Some people may be following it but the majority doesn't. And i personally think it shouldn't be allowed because it becomes a legalized form of prostitution.
As for prostitution, yes it is exploitation of woman but no one justifies by using religion. You are totally wrong on this one.
I said it in my previous post as well that you are just parroting the issues that western feminists have been raising for a long time.
Polygamy has become such a major issue but sleeping around with as many women as one wants does not somehow register in the feminist mind as exploitation of women. Sexually objectifying women in magazines & movies does not register as exploitation. It only becomes exploitation if it has anything to do with Islam or religion in general.
Try & convince me with a logical argument by refuting my line of reasoning in justifying polygamy. Tell me how it will lead to a better society if we ban it.
You are just giving examples of exploitation of women that is not at all because of Islam or Islamic Laws & you use it to rant against Islamic laws & what is clearly allowed in the Quran.
A10
I again say that being a woman I am not favoring polygamy and it should be only allowed under restriction ,shouldn't meant for having young birdes on the basis of wealth or status.
This is normal practices for polygamy and hardly anyone follows as it is perscribed in islamic books
My favor only comes if husband is too good with his first wife then she should handle him with care, otherwise state law support woman in this regard and she can punish her slippery husband if he would go for it without her permission.
As it is part of men acts in our religious circle and they have got all encouraging attitude from system and religious backups SO my dislikeness is valueless in this regard.
No one justifies prostitution but how much religious clerics run campaign against existence of prostitution as biggest reality of our society.
These are the same religious clerics who go for monthly donations from such adulators for running their religious activities.
Why I try to convince you on polygamy issue as you have all time support from society and religion on it.
Just tell me why you didnt select any shaheed widow and his orphan children under your custody to fulfill islamic need of allowing polygamy.
But as you have always declared that why you go for responsibility instead of short lived enjoyment.
That is my point that we ignore our responsibilities and search for short term happiness when our pockets are filled and better choice is available to us under legal cover.
Noway I can convince any man of this Muslim society against negative effects of polygamy as he would consider it as shortsightedness of woman.
He even not bothers to foresee consequences of such options
Kindly first decide that either I am parroting, or in confusion and then chase my comments.
Jaan chad dai meeri.
I agree that clerics do not raise the real social issues in our society & instead are more interested in pointing fingers at jews, zionists, hindus, america etc. etc.
I have a problem when you place polygamy in the same category as prostitution and then say that Muslim men use religion to justify these practices. That is why i say that no one has EVER justified prostitution using religion.
Abusing the law like marrying underage girls is something different & nobody is supporting that. But that does not in any way imply that polygamy is to blame. If we ban polygamy will such abuse stop?
The corruption of our religious leaders cannot be used to negate a permission given quite explicity in the Quran – again it is a permission not an encouragement & Allah even discourages men by saying that don't marry more then one woman unless you will be able to be fair to them & most of you won't be able to.
The permission should be looked at in terms of society as a whole. You think men in positions of wealth & power will stop sleeping with women other then their wives if we place a ban on second marriages?
You have the western society in front of you where it is illegal to marry more then one woman at a time. Here are some statistics for you:
"The United States has the highest rates of teen pregnancy and births in the western industrialized world. Thirty-four percent of young women become pregnant at least once before they reach the age of 20 — about 820,000 a year. Eight in ten of these teen pregnancies are unintended and 79 percent are to unmarried teens."
So much for putting all the blame on polygamy. These are social & cultural issues & should be dealt with accordingly. Islam provides a legal way out of this problem & places responsibilities on men. Placing a ban is not going to solve but exacerbate the problem. Islam gives these permissions & then places a strong disincentive in the form of punishments for people to engage in extra-marital affairs – It gives a solution.
I will repeat that yes you are talking from an individual point of view when you say that women would rather prefer their husbands keep girlfriends than be legally married to another woman. What about those other woman? Aren't they a part of the same society? Shouldn't they get their due rights as well? I can only say it is a very naive argument you have put forward.
You cannot argue using logical points & reasoning so you keep going round in circles & say one thing and then another. Your posts are more rhetorical & emotional then answering to the arguments in any constructive way.
You say:
"Just tell me why you didnt select any shaheed widow and his orphan children under your custody to fulfill islamic need of allowing polygamy."
Firstly, I haven't selected any 'shaheed widow' because i am in my 20's & still have to get married.
Secondly, this has got nothing to do with polygamy. If we ban polygamy today will men start magically preferring widowed & divorced women with children over virgins? Your argument over here does not even make any sense. I will repeat that this is a social and cultural issue.
Thirdly, to my knowledge there is no such Islamic requirement for polygamy. You cannot just make laws out of thin air. They have to have a basis in Quran & Hadith. If you have a basis for your opinion then please share it on this forum.
Leaving religion completely aside your argument for banning polygamy doesn't even hold against simple logic. Again we have both societies in front of us – those that ban polygamy & those that don't. Can you say that banning polygamy has cured the society of the social ills that you are pointing to?
Polygamy is not even a major issue in our society. It is an issue to you because it has been fed into our minds by western 'feminists' & 'intellectuals'.
There are more serious social issues that we face in our society – things like widespread child abuse, homosexuality & our hypocrisy as a society to accept that these social ills do exist.
A20s
Why you are feeling shame that Muslim majority and clerics misused and still misusing islamic laws and try their best to control the circumstances for their favor under guild of religion.
It is very unfortunate that many of the Muslims are in name alone, and very few follow the religious rules, they take unfair advantage of the law of polygamy. In such circumstances, question arises that in Islam what is the prophecy regarding such shameless people. And how their misuse be limited?
That is just the duty of Islamic government to be helper and supporter of oppressed and inimical to the oppressors in the same way if divorce and polygamy is a cause for injustice upon the woman.
Now in reality in masculine society promote intentionally or unintentionally the wrong perception of polygamy. And men tend to believe it so that they are able to justify their second, third, fourth and even tenth marriage and are permitted to keep divorcing and marrying women until they have turned God's permission for practicing polygamy into what resembles prostitution whether you accept it or not.
Holy prophet started polygamous martial status in 50s and except Hazrat Ayesha all are over aged,divorcee and widow
I give you latest example of new kind of real story recently heard from my social circle.
A popular builder of Lahore name syed tariq shah is popular in his circle for polygamy after becoming over rich in last tenure of lands and building high boom.
He has officially two marriages living in DHA and gulberg.
Two of her girl friends are found residing on rent in lahore garden town area.He gives the rent of both houses.In one house his lady is all daytime busy in Islamic teaching and night time suspicious cars are seen in front of that house.
Second house he has allotted to singer rabi peerzada and she has one son from him.Singer introduced her as mrs tariq shah.
In front of this house, a lady who called her mrs geenral hayat is living there for many years.General car was found there in late night hours.
So what do you think about such night wives only?
I have just given you latest from my general knowledge how people mishandled polygamy cum prostitution.
I can give you many disadvantages of polygamy and if possible find its advantages positive aspect in Islamic society.
Less time with the husband
Less attention
Jealousy and unshared love; since the woman likes to have full attention and full unshared love from her partner just like demand of a man.
Family malfunctioning and Chaos ensuing less discipline and guiding for his new generation.
Less money saved due to increased expenditures for more than one family
Population problems that burden the society.
Unfairness and discrimination as husband can have more than one partner while the wife should marry only and exclusively one.
It is good to hear that you have reached in 20s otherwise I thought I am talking to baby boy lying most of time his crib and in exercise time he comes on net.
So I was trying to brain wash a Muslim kid to take care of widows and simple girls too of islamic society as legal wives but disappointed to read that you have grown up older and this 20s is not good age to provide guidance.
Any how this war on terror has made very young widows and you can think of a true Muslim like that and happily follow this polygamy by keeping one unmarried and a widow wife side by side.
After practicing this then try to discuss me your beautiful adventure of polygamy and I would really love to listen it.
Anybody reading our exchange of comments can figure out for him or her self who the real child is over here.
Please tell me how many cases do you know of or have heard of where men keep divorcing their old wives & marrying new ones. One off cases of abuse do not really support your argument in any way.
What are you trying to prove with your example of some rich builder? His keeping two girlfriends apart from his wives is a proof against polygamy & against Islamic laws?
You say: '……night time suspicious cars' – First of all how can cars be suspicious? & secondly if he is carrying out these activities under the cover of darkness like you say, it means that he does not want people to see his activities – that means that these types of activities are not tolerated in our society. How can you blame polygamy for this thing? Polygamy is permitted exactly to discourage this type of behavior & marrying a woman in a respectful & open way instead of having a secret relationship.
If someone is abusing the law that doesn't mean that the law is to blame. If people constantly break traffic signals do you suggest that traffic signals should be removed because they are the reason that people break the signal in the first place? This absurd logic is exactly what you are propounding.
I fail to understand where you come up with these correlations. You know you sound like a disgruntled old women who is afraid her husband might leave her for a younger woman & so feel so passionately about polygamy.
You say: "Unfairness and discrimination as husband can have more than one partner while the wife should marry only and exclusively one."
So basically you are saying that if women were also allowed to have more then one partner at a time then it would be fair & non-discriminatory. All i can say is stop parroting western feminists & think for yourself.
And your other arguments like less time with husband & less attention – what can i say – i am just at a loss of words.
You know what Nazia, on second thought i kind of agree with you. Polygamy is to blame for all these social ills in our society you mentioned. We should just ban it. That way the rich builder of Lahore will have only just one wife & three girl friends instead of two wives and two girl friends. Problem solved!
And that way Nazia, by banning polygamy men will also magically start preferring widowed & divorced women with children instead of virgins.
What was i thinking before? Thank you for opening up my eyes
A20s
Lot of characters are available on national level
one is khar and other is yousuf salehiden grandson of Allama Iqbal,javaid sheikh ,shareef din per zada, abdul hafeez peerzada etc and many of our political icons all time in our parliaments.
Who is going to ban polygamy I have given you guidance to make happy Allah and yourself and go ahead.
you lost your words on my this statement.
your other arguments like less time with husband & less attention – what can i say – i am just at a loss of words.
Go to pirs or den of faith healers where 90% of women go and demand such magical powers to get the attention of their husbands or desperately looking for a taweez to control their husband.
You wouldn't believe that majority of ladies go there from so called educated and modern families.
Again you have an objection on my comment
if women were also allowed to have more then one partner at a time then it would be fair & non-discriminatory. All i can say is stop parroting western feminists & think for yourself.
Ethically and morally one good partner is enough for one human being in his/her one life but some ladies become very revengeful or might acquired same attitude after seeing the unfaithfulness of their partner, father and brother.
Ayesha khar the daughter of khar is ditto copy of her father so she is very popular in her social circle for her courtships.
Anybody reading our exchange of comments can figure out for him or her self who the real child is over here.
_____________________________________________________
2AL
ofcourse i am reading carefully the both sides of comments.
I realized how reasonable,articulate and mature response is given by Al and how childish and eristic Nazia is.
I always said one thing liberalism is not a social belief it is religion….some things will never change in this world.that is why some naughty
Kudos to Al but you are trying to catch a hare with tabret
Dr khan
next time read comment of your jigar A1 carefully and mine with carelessness.
or you can ignore it.
Who is forcing you to waste your precious time on your haste.
Watch the difference between hare and wild cats before chasing.
Nazia, its AL not A1. Just figured what you meant by A10 & A20 – i thought it was the name of some minibus from your area.
Secondly, Dr.Jawwad isn't my 'jigar' but he appears to be a man with a mind on his head in contrast to some people one comes across on these forums who can go on and on with their circular arguments without adding anything to the debate, changing the goal post every time because they know they can't win a point. I am sure you must have come across such people too.
Third, since you know so much about Islam, what does it teach us about backbiting, 'gheebat', defaming & forwarding unverified allegations against other people?
A1
Oh hoo all wise men having mind in their head are joining hands.
If I have contrast with you people then why you are wasting your high profile time and effort on my mindless comments.
No way I am doing backbiting but setting an example of front biting which irritates people like you.
You wanted name of some people and same I did so instead of thanking me you start cursing me.Their acts are either on record or got through My personal resources.if you have you can verify it too.What is going to be angry on it if I give some kind of revelation.
I know that men of my society don't like my style as nobody is interested in hearing truth but prefer way of deception living.I agree with you that no way I can convince any Muslim to avoid polygamy as much as possible .
This situation becomes very interesting when same treatment is given to his loving daughter or his wife is found in extramarital affair,Then immediately all laws of punishment and justice become active in few moments,even these are the same men who follow the law of man made honor killing without fear of its consequences.
Who is dying for win games and why you are deciding by yourself under fake ID.
I am not changing th goal post since start of discussion and my point of focus is same as start that humans and specially influential men twitch laws toward their favor instead of spreading its effectiveness to larger masses.
In real life my reactions and sometime prompt actions annoys men as you are feeling.
I tell you an interesting and little bit of embarrassing situation for all participants of this unwanted scene of real life due to my rapid intelligence procedures.
While my stay in Karachi one of my nearby neighbor whose husband quite senior man having grown up children come in haste and told me that she had lost her contact with her husabnd since morning as she was not familiar any one in karachi so how she couldnt locate her husband.
Believe me if she had ever given me hint of her husband character I would think differently but this senior couple always proved like love birds in front of public so seeing the Karachi conditions I thought he might have been kidnapped .Those days lots of kidnapping of executives were being noticed in our surroundings.
So started working on his search I contacted his phone service which was found off for last 5 hrs, then I contacted his trekker company providing services to his car.They traced his vehicle standing in clifton area.So with in an hour I took all necessary acts of jamming his car, locating exact location and arrangement of local ranger and police force to get him from hands of kidnapper(imagined)
So when raid was conducted , baba jee was having candle light dinner with SMART widow and if we gave him some time he might had offered his proposal in this good environment.
I confess that I created mess in his open and concealed family life and reason of Rang main bhang like situation in his ideal life.
God forbid me for my unintentional mistake where my prompt acts create surge in normal life styles of our hypocrite society.
This is what happened to dr Hoodbhoy who is trying to give suggestion that veiled face create ambiguity in conceiving the human minds while sharing knowledge and same way I claim that covered and hidden personalities generate the concept of deception and diversions in human life styles.
@nazia!
don't embarass yourself
Dr khan
if A1 OR A10 is not considering you his jigar then dont spill your anger on me
What I did for which I feel embarrassment?
I am not giving you high profile references and philosophy behind simple life styles. so what is piece of embarrassment for me from your point of view.
I am giving you live and practical examples of what is going on in our society and instead of you feel ashamed on acts of your breed , you are targeting me for nothing.
Nazia! you are embarassing yourself by distorting A1's ID.
stop behaving like a "rand bewa"
@A1,
if you want to share ANY THING,you are more than welcome in my blog. I like your style of discussion.
hehehe
Thank you Dr. sb.
Nazia can call me whatever she wants. I don't mind as long as she keeps us amused. Office me time pass karna asaan ho jaata he
Dr khan
I know I am not in your good books
I dont care and nor want to be,
But I think we should have some limit of showing our frustration on others.
Jokes and healthy taunts should have some place in normal life but
I think in my dimwitted view that we shouldn't curse even our enemies.
So never ever curse a lady to be bewa as it is worst form of modest living I have ever seen in my system.
I know you have more sense of intellectualism ,Sufism and Islam ism than me.
You have proved that why I AVOID PEOPLE of tableeghi jaammat in my real life.
Nazia, are you kidding me. What waste of time. I enjoy debating with dim-witted people.
I didn't ask you for any names & i don't need to thank you for anything except maybe for some much needed amusement. I asked you how many people you know who keep divorcing their wives in search of new ones. You could have said i know 10 people, 20 people, or from what i can gather from your comments you know at least a million such muslims. I never asked you for any names. You can reread my comments.
And just for your information since we are all learning so much over here: Backbiting: to attack the character or reputation of a person who is not present.
So yes, if you ask any person with half a mind you were backbiting back there.
Here is what the Holy Prophet (PBUH) had to say about it:
Prophet Muhammad said :"Do you know what backbiting is?" They said, "God and His Messenger know best." He then said, "It is to say something about your brother that he would dislike." Someone asked him, "But what if what I say is true?" The Messenger of God said, "If what you say about him is true, you are backbiting him, but if it is not true then you have slandered him." (Muslim)
And here is what the Quran has to say about backbiting:
"O you who believe! Shun much suspicion; for lo! some suspicion is a crime. And spy not, neither backbite one another. Would one of you love to eat the flesh of his dead brother? You would abhor that. And keep your duty (to Allah). Lo! Allah is Relenting, Merciful." [Quran 49:12]
But of course what do i know. You are free to interpret everything so that it fits into your worldview.
I tried very hard but i just cannot understand what you are trying to say over here: "Who is dying for win games and why you are deciding by yourself under fake ID."
And I can guarantee you that no influential man has ever 'twitched' any law throughout human history – EVER.
A1
I can guarantee you that no influential man has ever ‘twitched’ any law throughout human history – EVER
Why can you claim like this,it is not clear to me but I can give you some subjects in which Muslims twitched laws to get privileges for strong groups and ignoring large community.
You can go through few selective subjects in your "busy"working hours ,
Subject Hudood Law in Pakistan: An Example of Misuse of Islamic Law
http://www.iraq-bangladesh.inbangladesh.com/pakis…
subject: Misused anti-dowry laws in subcontinent
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?tit…
Subject: subjugation of girl child and basic human rights in Islamic society and basic human rights
http://rethinkingislam-sultanshahin.blogspot.com/…
Subject :strict covering of face and whole body with black cloak
Allah declared
O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women
of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go out). That will be better, so that they may be recognized and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
Quran-33:59
Simultaneously we should also understand that the Prophet of Allah Mohammed(saw) has also said that the face should be revealed in the following Saheeh Hadith:
Asma, daughter of AbuBakr, entered upon the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) wearing thin clothes. The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) turned his attention from her. He said: O Asma',when a woman reaches the age of puberty, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of the body except this and this, and he (Mohammed(saw) pointed to her face and hands.
Sunan of Abu-Dawood
Hadith 4092 Narrated by
Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin
It is very clear that the Prophet of Allah clearly pointed to the face and specifically said that the face could be kept revealed as to the hand till the wrist and Also there is another Saheeh hadees in the Bukhari where :
Al-Fadl bin 'Abbas rode behind the Prophet as his companion rider on the back portion of his she camel on the Day of Nahr and Al-Fadl was a handsome man. The Prophet stopped to give the people verdicts. In the meantime, a beautiful woman from the tribe of Khath'am came, asking the verdict of Allah's Apostle. Al-Fadl started looking at her as her beauty attracted him. The Prophet looked behind while Al-Fadl was looking at her; so the Prophet held out his hand backwards and caught the chin of Al-Fadl and turned his face (to the other side) in order that he should not gaze at her. She said, "O Allah's Apostle! The obligation of Performing Hajj enjoined by Allah on His worshipers, has become due (compulsory) on my father who is an old man and who cannot sit firmly on the riding animal. Will it be sufficient that I perform Hajj on his behalf?" He said, "Yes."
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith
Hadith 8.247
Narrated by Abdullah bin Abbas
Bukhari and Ahmad have reported that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "A pilgrim woman must neither cover her face nor wear gloves."
Fiqh-us-Sunnah
Fiqh 5.49
We can judge the that when Al-Fadl was admiring the beauty of the face of the beautiful women – Prophet(saw) did not ask the women to cover her face or turn her face – on the other hand he just turned the face of Al-Fadl(ra) to the other side and we know that in haj and in prayer the women are strictly forbidden to cover the face and we know that the haj is an international gathering and if the face aught to be covered Rasool(saw) would have certainly said so.
It is also not found in any example that at any time Prophet while preaching in mosque gathering at any instances ordered or requested the women to cover the face – on the other hand Allah and His Prophet have both stated that the face should be revealed;
So you can judge the extremity of legislation of strong Wahhabi group toward women folk.
Subject:polygamy in islamic societies is still controversial
Muslim countries themselves have clear laws that do not view polygamy approvingly; Tunisia and Turkey having banned it completely. In Egypt, if a woman can prove that her husband is married to another, he can be prosecuted for bigamy.
Turkish family law and marriage legislation and regulations uphold monogamy. A second marriage cannot be executed unless the first is dissolved.
In Syria, polygamy is highly regulated. A judge “may refuse permission for polygamous marriage unless husband establishes lawful cause and financial capacity”. Inability to conceive is one widely held ground for Islamic bigamous marriages. Click here.
In Morocco too, polygamous marriages are discouraged. Polygamy may not be permitted if a woman fears unequal treatment, according to Moroccan family laws.
In India, polygamous Muslim marriages are indeed few and far between.
I hope this is enough for you.I am amazed to read that in while working in office you have enough time to read the comments of dim whit people.
You have an excellent boss who is giving you soft targets for whole day.if such kind of job is available to you then let me know too.
You show your trend and tend through your words and I need no more additives to show you your interest.
In net world every thing comes on black and white and never come in context of back biting.
I just wanted to show you through live examples that people are following such hypocrite trends and I am just exposing them.Those people are popularly known in their social circle what I described and they feel proud of it without any guilt
@Nazia: I agree with you. We shouldn't be getting personal. Sorry for any personal comments i may have made above.
A1
we are not in any kind of agreement before any lengthy discussion and sometimes through slip tongue such situation create unintentionally.
But I am highlighting that few people only focus on personal curses only.
Reason could be superiority or inferiority complex, might be normal way of expressing high profile thoughts to low IQ people, way of brought up, teaching methods for giving hard lesson to others who dont agree with them etc
I dont know the exact reason of such low class direct frankness with hatred characters.
Teeth
my comments are vanishing from the screen.
It is not even showing for moderation.
You have changed any format for lengthy comments.?
@Nazia!
you have a very mature and intelligent approach to the issues.your inside information is also superb, but the religion is not a light issue and involves much of sentiments and emotions. There are many people like me who get emotional whenever some one point a finger on Islam.
The best way to discuss the religion is not to criticise on it. you may put your reservations and doubts for open debate but before it is necessary to come out the typical islamophobic mind set.If you get the satisfactory answer ,well and good but if you are not satisfied then do not criticize on Islam as NO BODY WILL FORCE YOU TO FOLLOW ISLAMIC CODE OF CONDUCT.
we believe that orders and injuctions of Islam are came from Allah(swt) and critcizing Islam is a criticism on Allah(swt).Also many people like me see Islamophobia in a context of clash between Global dajjali system and hard core islam.There is lot of emotions attached with this ongoing war.avoid being targetted just for comments.
Dr. sb. people do get emotional but we should learn to overcome our emotions & not get carried away. We should try & follow our Prophet (PBUH) as much as possible & always ask this question that how would he have responded in such a situation. Would he (pbuh) ridicule the other person, call him or her names or would he have convinced the other person through logic & good manners?
I am not pointing you out by the way. This includes me as well. I think all of us here Nazia, you, & Me have made personal comments over here that should have been avoided despite the fact that it so much more fun.
Dr khan
dont try to place fungus under silvery cover.
I am not in position to give you example of Holy Prophet that how he handled his worst enemies but who has given you authority to be controller of people's mind and faith.
I might be wrong enough but who has given you license to abuse.
If you become emotional in any matter then there is no harm until your emotions start trespassing others limit.
People know very well how to channelize your stranded emotions in this ongoing war to keep you straight, align and disciplined.
You know importance of human alignment in all matters of life better than me.
You are not accountable for my deeds in front of Allah.You can disagree to me it is obvious and I can disagree to A1 to A10 in all matters whether it is religious or social.
Why I cant criticize wrong notion of islamic teaching mostly adopted by human minds.
My comment is still missing in this debate where I give different matters of conflict in religious laws in all level.
I am really telling you very moderate experiences as being a female it doesn't allow me to cross all limits, other wise I have more worst real stories happening around me on the name of religion.
Islam is as yours as mine and not applied on gun point or through power of abuses or applying blasphemy law.
That attitude shows you weakness and helplessness to cease the discussion, nothing in it to harass as you want.
Nazia: There is such a thing called sarcasm. Go and look up the meaning of 'twitch' in a dictionary & i am sure you will agree with me that no one has ever 'twitched' any law.
Your first few links about misuse of Hudood Laws, dowry culture etc. do not address any point i have raised. If you care to reread my first few comments i have agreed with the point of view that people have been using culture & other social customs in the guise of religion to subjugate women. So there is no debate over there.
The debate started when you started blaming Islamic Laws instead of the people who were misusing those laws.
Regarding your point about Hijab, I don't disagree with the links you have provided. However, one thing you should be clear about is that there were special restrictions on the Prophets wives that were not applicable on other woman. These included among others that they talk to na-mehram men from behind a curtain & they were not allowed to remarry after the Prophet's (PBUH) death. This was because of their special status in Islam. They were given a very clear option in the Quran when Allah addresses them & says that if you cannot fulfill all these requirements than you should leave the Prophet.
As regards the covering of the face, some muslims scholars think it is compulsory and some consider it not compulsory. However, ALL consider it as desirable. You will never find a muslim scholar who will be campaigning for banning the face veil.
In fact i agree that there are many Hadith that imply that women were in the presence of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) with their faces uncovered. And it follows logically as well that if women are not allowed to cover their faces during Umrah & Haj in the presence of hundreds of thousands of unrelated men, what is the logic of forcing them to cover otherwise.
However, when people start forcing their opinion that women should not be allowed to wear a veil than i have a problem with that. Just like you wouldn't like anyone forcing their opinion on what you should or shouldn't wear you should respect other people's right to wear what they want. Forcing your opinion is not liberalism.
Next thing you know Pervez Hoodboy would be campaigning that students shouldn't be allowed to keep a beard or that students shouldn't wear sunglasses.
Please leave it to personal choice. No one has given you the right to decide on behalf of all Muslim women that they are subjugated & need to be rescued.
You should read this article:
Confessions of a Hijabi: http://blog.dawn.com/2010/03/22/confessions-of-a-…
Regarding your argument about polygamy: Its a nice copy/paste job from the Hindustan Times blog (of all the places). For all the other people here is the link: http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/they-call-me-musl…
You can assess what the mindset of the writer is from this paragraph:
//"Islam is not what it is often made out to be and the real surprise is that realities are often ignored. You can pick several issues, like polygamy. There are more serious ones: if you kill enough non-Muslims you might even get to romp in a heavenly bedroom with 72 virgins. (I really doubt if God meant group sex! And even if He did, Islamophobes cringe at the very thought when Hugh Hefner’s Playboy Mansion has far more bedrooms with far sexier bunnies.)"//
The writer also declares: //"I am against treating the Quran as an absolute text."//
If you want to take such writers as your authority on Islam then i can only pray for you. It would be better if you just follow what your heart says instead of twisting the religion to suit your worldview.
The entire article you have quoted from tries to imply the following in the writers own words: "It is universally acknowledged that the Quran does permit polygamy. My stand is that the conditions it puts are designed to actually discourage polygamy."
But the writer fails to provide any proof of the conditions Islam places on polygamy. It has only been made conditional on the man if he thinks he can be fair to both women he can keep a second wife. No where does it say that the man should ask his first wife or anything else. And i have already mentioned this, Islam PERMITS polygamy, it DOES NOT ENCOURAGE it. There is a big difference.
Did you even read this article? The writer is quoting some 'front-ranking legal expert on Muslim Law'. What report was this 'expert' contributing to? This one: "Preventing Bigamy via Conversion to Islam".
So basically the authors of this report were worried about Hindu conversion to Islam because of the permission of polygamy. Were they worried then women were being abused? NO. Were they worried that women were not getting their due rights? NO. So obviously they had to reach the conclusion that they reached.
I don't know about Tunisia but both Egypt & Turkey have staunchly secular governments, specially Turkey. If you ever get the chance read the history of Turkey & how Ataturk tried to 'westernize' his country by doing away with all Islamic laws. And these bans are not backed by any religions edicts. They have been made by secular governments.
By the same token use of alcohol is permitted in Turkey. Would you then argue for removing its ban in Pakistan as well because an 'islamic' country does not have the ban?
There is a popular saying that don't try to fix what isn't broken. Of all the social ills you have pointed out you miserably fail to make any convincing argument that they are the result of allowing polygamy.
In all the countries where polygamy is banned, have they been able to overcome social ills like prostitution, abuse of women etc. that you mention?
I am still unconvinced that polygamy is a social ill or some 'negative' or 'sick' desire of men. Its a permission granted not encouraged in Islam. And it is granted because Islam places such strong disincentives for men to sleep with women without legally marrying them. It is only there to protect the rights of women in society. But you fail to see the bigger picture.
Sorry A1
I am throughout blaming people and their man made system to divert the religious issues toward personal desires.
You himself made abnormal comment on 72 hoors like incentive and expecting from me to digest it as such,It is not your double standard.
Your suicidal bombers are trained on this concept in your medressahs and you want me to show you why it is projected wrongly in any Islamic culture.
I was not interested in detail of hindustan times and intention of authors but looking for data of some muslim countries in which govt had come forward to stop misuse of polygamy.
You can mock on this copy paste if that data and its details are not correct and again it is you who are projecting the non Muslims issue not me.
i can give you references of many non muslims the way they criticized Islam
Other wise if I wanted to paste it I could have done it as I did for other links
Same I never ever pointed finger on wives of Holy Prophet it is again you who is trying to create confusions.
Your extensions of accusing turkey and Egypt for secular is not correct as this Mediterranean belt almost show same kind of liberalism except Saudia. turkey has neighborhood with European countries so different colors of culture have been mixed with religious norms and same thing we see in few African Muslim states.
Do you still deny that those Muslim countries have tried their best via so called unIslamic way to discourage polygamy i,e
women written permission is not mentioned in any verse of Hadith and Quran.
You know why it was thought to modify such laws as majority of men started exploiting it and women awareness/ empowerment was not allowing them to further continue it as such.
Have you heard how much Sunni muslims take the oath of shia in courts for allotting all property and money to their female child.
Do you think that they are denying Islamic laws in which only male child can have full access of father's inheritance and in case of female child, state and other family members ant take share from deceased.
Do you think that shias are more Muslim then sunni or vice versa.
I have already read this article about confession of hijab and know the hijab science/philosphy much better than you .
Head/face covering is part of our system since our grand mother time and purely a symbol of Muslim woman in any society.
So young girls sometimes impressed by any personality or influenced by religious personality take it by choice or carry on as heritage but when middle age woman start this new theme after passing her peak youth time then there are other reasons , other than religious affiliation or awareness.
It can be showing more modesty after passing colorful youth, avoiding dying hair, looking for reasonable match for their young daughters by showing off like that or showing religious trends to their young rebellious sibling.
So I think the confession of that lady is still incomplete and need more truth jerks from our hypocrite society.
You know what you don't even make any sense. You just write down whatever comes to your mind. One thought leading to another thought leading to another thought to another thought and so on.
You miss the point on each & every argument. I don't know if it has to do with your understanding of the english language or there are some other issues.
I am not pointing to any incentives of 72 hoors. I am pointing to how your source who seems to be a muslim himself twists the hadith to suit his argument. Did the Holy Prophet (PBUH) ever say that whoever kills the most non-muslims will go to heaven & get 72 hoors? This asshole is suggesting exactly this. Just to make it fit into his argument. And then he goes on to make fun of the Hadith. And you are quoting this piece of shit!
I don't justify suicide bombings & neither do i think they are Islamic. But to put it into context, these muslims who blow themselves up are not inherently suicidal – no one is. It is not easy to convince a person to blow himself up like this. However, the propaganda of the west which so called 'liberals' like you absorb hook line and sinker, seems to suggest (implicitly but nevertheless) that these people are suicidal just because of being muslims & because they are being taught these things by mullahs.
This line of argument completely ignores the socio-economic & political circumstances that form the breeding ground of such behavior. Circumstances that western countries led by the USA are directly & indirectly responsible for.
Blaming it all on Islamic teachings helps to divert everyone's attention from the real reasons for the violence & enables the west to continue with its policies.
What confusion have i created against the wives of the Holy Prophet (PBUH)? Learn some English first, understand what i have written, and then criticize if you have to. Don't put these baseless allegations on me. It is one thing to get personal & another to blame me for creating confusion about the Prophet's wives.
You write: //"Your extensions of accusing turkey and Egypt for secular is not correct as this Mediterranean belt almost show same kind of liberalism except Saudia."//
You are wrong about both countries. Yes, Saudi Arabia is an anomaly in the region & their brand of religion is something that was imposed only in the last century. But you are wrong about Turkey & Egypt.
Turkey was the seat of the caliphate for 500 years & you are telling us that it always showed some kind of liberalism & secularism. Kamal Ataturk on the other hand was fiercely secular & wanted to do away with everything associated with the Caliphate. He sent into exile the entire Ottoman family that had ruled Turkey & the entire middle east for 500 years. His legacy continues to this day with the Turkish Army acting as the guardian of the secular nature of the State.
However, at the time the Turkish Republic was formed the population was deeply conservative. Ataturk was so obsessed with the West that he actually made laws banning the wearing of traditional dresses & the Turkish cap.
And even in present times, the voters have elected the AKP party that has its roots in previously banned Islamic Parties. The population is definitely not so fiercely secular as it has voted the party twice into power. Thus the constant tension with the armed forces. And Turkey happens to head the list of countries where the population is most anti-US, even more then Pakistan.
I suggest you read some history and then come and debate with me.
Regarding, Egypt it might have had a tolerant culture previously but that was true for the entire region under the Ottomans. Today it is being ruled by a dictator with an iron fist who has aligned his country with the USA & Israel – a policy which the majority of the population would reject if given the choice.
A significant section of the Egyptian population is pretty conservative. Al-Qaeda has its roots in Islamic Brotherhood – a militant Islamic Party in Egypt. Ayman Al Zawahiri came from Islamic Brotherhood as well as a lot of the intellectual cadre that provided the ideological basis for Al-Qaeda. Islamic Brotherhood happens to have significant support in Egypt.
Lastly, the lady who wrote the article does not owe any confession to you or anyone else. She just said it is her choice to wear a scarf & no one including people like you have any right to judge her for it & demand further confessions. Go and live your own life instead of forcing your opinion on other people not to wear a scarf or veil. No one has forced you to wear a veil & neither do you or Pervez Hoodboy have any right to force other people.
In the end i will copy/paste the argument that you have been avoiding like the plague because you don't have a logical answer except rhetorical & emotional bullshit & naming names:
I am still unconvinced that polygamy is a social ill or some ‘negative’ or ’sick’ desire of men. Its a permission granted not encouraged in Islam. And it is granted because Islam places such strong disincentives for men to sleep with women without legally marrying them. It is only there to protect the rights of women in society. But you fail to see the bigger picture.
wives of Holy Prophet
====================
Some Clarification regarding Prophet Mohammad [PBUH]'s Wives is under:
11 Marriages of Prophet Muhammad [PBUH]
1- First wife Khadeeja Bint Khuwailad Bin Asad Bin AbdulAza Bin Qasi Bin Kalab was married to Mohammad {PBUH} when he was 25, and she was 40. While she was alive he didnt marry. All the children of Mohammad {PBUH} were from her except Ibrahim {RA}. She passed away 3 years before Hijrat to Medina. She was the first amongst women who embraced Islam.
2- 2nd wife Sauda Bint Zama Bin Qais Bin Abdul Shams Bin Abdod Bin Nazr Bin Malik Bin Hasl Bin Aamir Bin Lui.
3- 3rd Siddiqa Bint Siddiq or Aiyesha Bint Abu Bakar {RA} she was the only virgin wife of Mohammad {PBUH} all the other wives were widowed or divorced. When Prophet Mohammad {PBUH} passed away she was 18 and she passed in Hijri Year 58. Age dispute: [read my post on age above]
Age of Hazrat Ayesha [May Allah be pleased with her] has always been a dispute amongst Scholars, here is the detailed analysis for kind perusal: The Holy Prophet Mohammad [PBUH]'s Marriages – 2 http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/holy-pro…
4 – 4th wife Hafsa Bint Omer Farooq {RA}. She was first married to Khanees Bin Hazafa. Mohammad {PBUH} divorced her but as per History and Hadiths Mohammad was ordered by Allah through Gabriel to re-marry her as she was a pious lady so Mohammad remarried with her due to her strict following of Fasting and Praying.
5- 5th Wife Umm-e-Habeeba Bin Abu Sufiyan {Father of Ameer Muawiya and Grand Father of Yazeed Bin Ameer Muawiya}. Her name was Ramala bin Sakhar. Her first husband Ubaidullah Bin Juhash became Christian when the couple reached to Habasha her husband died. On behalf of Mohammad, Osman {RA} OR Khalid Bin Ala'as conducted the Nikah ceremony.
6- 6th wife Umme Salma {RA} her name was Hind Bin Abu Ummayya. She was earlier married to one Abu Salma {RA}. Her first husband was cousin of Mohammad and he passed away after battle of Ohad and left 4 orphan children and out of mercy and for the sake of orphan children Mohammad married with her.
wives of Holy Prophet
=========================
7TH wife Zainab Bin Juhash {RA} she was paternal cousin of Mohammad {PBUH}.Her first marriage was with a freed servant of Mohammad {PBUH}, Zaid Bin Haris {RA}.
Clarification:
There is no such thing as adopted son or daughter in Islam. Zaid and Zainab had differences with each other like normal couple but they couldn't live as happy couple therefore Zaid divorced her. Mohammad tried to intervene for compromise b/w husband and wife but Zainab was not ready to compromise therefore the Allah ordered in Quran {Verse: 37 Soorah Al-Ahzab-The Confederates} to marry with Zainab, then Mohammad
married with Zainab. It is further mentioned here that Zainab marriage with Zaid was itself conducted and arranged by Mohammad {PBUH}. [a detailed note is at the end] The Holy Prophet Mohammad [PBUH]'s Marriages – 1
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/holy-pro…
8- 8th wife Zainab Bin Khazima (RA) Zainab was first married to Tufail Bin Haris {RA}, 2nd with Ubaida Bin Haris {RA} both were paternal cousin of Mohammad {PBUH} and then she was in marriage with Abdullah Bin Jahash {RA} and after his martyrdom she got married with Mohammad {PBUH}.
9- 9th Wife Jawairiya Bin Haris {RA} she came as a prisoner after Ghazwa Bani Mastalaq and was in custody of Sabit Bin Qais {RA}. Prophet Mohammad {PBUH} got her freed through paying out of his own pocket and got married with Jawairiya. This marriage helped freed 100 prisoners of War {who were relatives of Jawairiya} as nobody wanted to hold the IN-LAWS of Prophet Mohammad {PBUH} as slave and prisoners.
10- 10 the wife Safiyah Bin Hai {she was from the family of Moses/Aaron (PBUT)} and formerly a Jew. She was amongst the prisoners of Khyber. Her first husband was Kanana Bin AbulHaqeeq who was killed in Khyber war. She was freed by Mohammad from slavery and then got married with her.
11- 11th wife Maimona Bin Haris Halaliya {RA} was the last wife of Prophet Mohammad {PBUH}.
{Ref: JILA UL IFHAM FIS SALAT WASSALAM ALA KHAIRUL
ANAM BY IMAM SHAMSUDDIN ABU ABDULLAH IBN QAYYAM
AL-JOZIYA translated by Qazi Muhammad Suleman Salman
Mansoorpuri, Fomrer Session Judge Patyala India}
One thing is to be noticed that after Prophet Mohammad [PBUH]'s marriage with Hazrat Umme Habiba [May Allah be pleased with her], her father [Hazrat Abu Sufiyan Bin Harb May Allah be pleased with him] didn't come in any Battle from the side of Quraish to fight Mohammad [PBUH] because it was against the honour of Arab Tribal Culture to fight with Son In Law and that was also reciprocated by by Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] at the conquest of Makkah by honouring Abu Sufiyan [May Allah be pleased with him] by declaring his house as "Daarul Amaan" and later Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] appointed more than 10 Official/Governor from the tribe of Abu Sufiyan i.e. Bannu Ummayya. Many of such marriages of Mohammad [PBUH] should be taken as part of strategy to preach Islam more effectively.
A1
First tell me what kind of job is assigned to you in which you are preparing history lectures of 500 years back ottomon empires for me.I am discussing both countries in latest way of living and comparing its life styles with Pakistan.
Who told you that socio economic was basic motive of suicide bombing.India, china and Ethiopia like countries are below the defined poverty lines, Have you ever heard a single suicidal bomber there chasing the ordinary people to kill them.
oH yes here lot of suicides cases are available due to hunger and poverty but concept of hoors and Jannat is untouched in such neglected areas of the world.
You will be convinced in days or months when you would practically follow this polygamy as per my valuable advice .
I would love to come to your all marriage first to please Allah and then to make yourself happy ,
Behind the scene I would anxiously wait for your out puts.If you would then prove that my all conclusive disadvantages on polygamy are wrong I would make sorry in front of your all wives and kids.
I think we can keep this discussion preserved till the time of your practical demonstration.
I can do this favour to you.
You are really very obstinate guy who even not valuing that Islamic states itself discouraged polygamy through un Islamic laws.
So no way I have other examples to satisfy your deep rooted ideas further.
You have told me to read that article on hijab and I made my comments after reading her point of view and passed to you. even then you got flared.What is your actual problem
I many times asked these middle age ladies that you have passed all your youth by dropping your hairs on your shoulder and dupatta on your back and in this age when nobody is bothered to watch or stare you Go for head covering.At this period people do respect you under some relation as wife of some friend or senior or senior citizen status too.
So what this scarf do extra favour in this late age of attraction is still unapproachable to me.
No one can force me anything and if think of doing so then it would be very bad time for him or her.That is confirmed and practiced rule in my life.
Why single out Maulvi alone?
Vatican, Catholic officials defend Pope Benedict XVI's record on child abuse cases By Anthony Faiola Washington Post staff writer Wednesday, March 31, 2010 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/arti… Vatican defends pope’s record on abuse cases http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36119016/ns/world_new…
@Nazia:
I know its useless discussing this but what the heck. This is for the benefit of the other readers. I don't think you will get anything out of it.
When you are confronted with proof from the English Dictionary, Quran & Hadith like in the case of backbiting you start saying stupid things like i was not backbiting, i was frontbiting. Does it even mean anything?
I think i could have a more intelligent conversation with my 2 year old niece.
Now you say: //I am discussing both countries in latest way of living//. Previously you were saying that this belt always showed liberalism because of mixing of different cultures. These cultures have been mixing for centuries & centuries. Its not like they mixed 5 years ago. So history is very important in understanding the present.
Do you know the history of Saudi Arabia & the Salafi movement? What the geo-political reasons were because of which it has been spread through oil money by the Sauidi's & by the Americans?
Do you know why the Americans promoted this ideology in the Arab World? Because they thought it was a nice strategy to counter Arab Nationalism with & to counter the spread of communism & socialism. They were successful in those objectives but this strategy has come back to bite them.
Did i say 'socio-economic were the 'basic' motive for suicide bombings'? I said that socio-economic & political circumstances provide the breeding grounds for suicide bombers. These Muslims who are fighting this war with the US are not inherently suicidal because of being muslims. There were no suicide bombings in Afghanistan & Iraq before the US invaded these countries. There was poverty in these countries before & the people were still muslims & the mullahs/maulvi's were also there. What could be the reason?
I am sure you also think that these mullah's are also responsible for the kamikaze bombings of World War II & the Tamil Tiger suicide bombings & it has nothing to do with politics & socio-economic circumstances.
Think! For a change at least! But i am sure you won't.
Here is a suggestion (write this down as it will probably be difficult for you to remember this):
Go to a bookshop & ask them for an English 'DICTIONARY'.
This is a book where you can find the meaning of words from the English Language.
The words are in alphabetical order so that the word 'dumb' will appear before the word 'loony'.
I am sure all of this must be really exciting for you but this way you will understand a little better what i am writing.
I know you didn't understand me when i have repeatedly stressed the point that Islam PERMITS polygamy, it does not ENCOURAGE it.
PERMIT means: "to allow to do something"
ENCOURAGE means: "to promote, embolden, hearten, reassure"
I hope that now you will better understand what i said (what can i say i am just an optimistic person always hoping for impossible things).
So in the hope against hope that you have understood me i reassure you that i presently have no desire to have more then one wife. If i happen to land on a fortune then maybe i will think about it. And why would i want an apology from you? Just don't live your life in the fear that one day your husband might bring a younger bride home.
You are looking to solve a problem that does not exist. Prostitution, child abuse, abuse of women have nothing to do with polygamy. If they did than societies where polygamy is banned wouldn't have these issues. You miserably fail to show any correlation. I think in all this debate you have only been successful in convincing yourself.
Your arguments against polygamy that husbands won't be able to give enough time to their wives, & that the population will increase etc. are extremely childish to say the least. I am talking on the level of the society & you are giving me stupid justifications that you know so many women who go to pirs so polygamy should be banned.
Mughal
Your all information about wives of Holy Prophet is available to me but your conclusion about versatility of His wives from different background and culture is important.
Surely He married many of women who were even not medically fit for marriage but He did this for binding the relations between different tribes and culture with Islam.
That is why since that time only men are allowed to marry ahle kitab women .
But His marriage with hazrat kadeeja was in different context.
She was considered as one of richest lady of Mecca and owned personal fruit gardens and business ventures.
She left two husbands before marrying to Prophet.
I have read versions of some Muslims that why she abandoned her two marriages but if you have any knowledge
do share with me
but please in simple way ,in few lines and dont take me in whirlpool of lengthy links.Please take care of my mental level.
I want to know that if she was so rich lady then why nothing was Provided to Hazrat fatima who spent her most of life in difficult financial conditions.
After all her own wealth would had been distributed to her next heirs .
So When Hazrat khadeeja married to Prophet due to excellent repute of his nature, conduct and honesty,it had rasied the status of Prophet in elite group of mecca .
It was her companionship that contributed his projection in rich and influential groups who started following his example and teachings in their circle of typical strong group.
So I think it is his marriage with Hazrat Khadeeja that actually brought big break in his personality and mission to spread the message of God directly to strong ruling groups of Arabia.
prophet Mohammad [PBUH] already enjoyed a very respectable Status in Makkah "Sadiq" and "Ameen". Hazrat Fatimah's marriage with Hazrat Ali [May Allah pleased with both of them] took place years later after the death of Hazrat Khudaija [May Allah be please with her]. For further reference: Al Raheeq Al Makhtoom by Safi ur Rehman Mubarakpuri.
I am not denying the respectable status He owned as sadiq and Ameen as these two characteristics were rare in arab community and it was all mentioned in musdas e halee in detail.So Hazrat Muhammed had very unique nature other than ferocious temperament of Bedouins that made him prominent earlier in his community before advent of Prophecy.
It was the reason of his good nature that hazrat Khadeeja had sent him proposal, otherwise strong class at that era too were preferred to marry to same level of status.
can this reference reply my queries I have asked you in above comment?
Nazia says: = April 1, 2010 at 2:31 pm
I have read versions of some Muslims that why she abandoned her two marriages but if you have any knowledge
do share with me but please in simple way,
Divorce and being widowed were quite normal reasons for the re-marriage.
I want to know that if she was so rich lady then why nothing was Provided to Hazrat fatima who spent her most of life in difficult financial conditions.
Dear Ms. Nazia,
You could imagine yourself the criteria of Wealth in Arabia of those days, the wealth started pouring in after Conquest of Persia [Tabaqat Ibn Sa'ad] – Also Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] used to offer Sadaqa [Charity] a lot.
A1
That is best option you said to have discussion with your 2 year niece.She is also in need of her age group company and if her uncle can provide it then what can be more good news better than it.
Now after history lessons you are preparing english crash course for me.
You are looking hired in some taleem balgahn missionary group and in hunt of weak student like me but I am incorrigible so dont waste your precious office hours on improving my retarded skills.
Mullahs are the basic reason of down fall of our religious and cultural norms in subcontinent.That is reason we have thousands of medresahs and mullahs in our surroundings but peace of mind and scene of normal islamic society is missing in Pakistan.
I have traveled through this Mediterranean belt and still consider it more comfortable way of living under Islamic obligations except few objection related to monarchical way of rule and polygamy issues which are very dominant here on different basis I had already discussed.
Sure their tribal belts have same orthodox styles but still they have better approach what we are doing in our tribal belt.
You run away in few moments when I told you go ahead and follow this" permitted "polygamy.
I can guarantee you that my all childish claim about its would be understood to you in few years and you would not be waited for you long years.
Anyhow if you have made it your mind that monogamy is best way of living for any human and Muslims too then welcome to my club of thought.
I fully understand what you are trying to convince me for many days but you are not differentiating between impossible and unrealistic tasks.
Logical person can make all impossible odds into possible evens but prudent and careful person know the extent of unreality around his surrounding .Unrealistic approach gives us fantasy, drugged imagination,enjoyable vision but all breaks in minutes in thousand pieces if reality and its bitterness comes ahead in more devastated form than our imagination.
So come out your crystal of imagination where you are viewing only hoors and wines in jannat and feel the bitterness of real system around you.
@Nazia: I am not trying to teach you anything because you know urdu ka mahawara he ke 'BEL ke saamne been bajane ka koi faida nahi'.
I don't think i need your permission for anything & have no need to run away anywhere. This permission that you seem to be making fun of happens to be given in the Quran so make fun at your own expense.
For the benefit of other readers this article makes a very well argued case for the permission for polygamy given in Islam: http://www.al-islamforall.org/litre/Englitre/poly…
Again since you have some mental block in understanding simple english, i have NOT (for your understanding not is used to express negation, denial, refusal, or prohibition) said in any of my posts that monogamy is or is not the best way of living. It is for the individual to decide.
I have traveled in a few countries in the region as well including Turkey – it does not in anyway prove that you know anything about them.
Go and read the history of Muslim Brotherhood (i mistakenly called it Islamic) & then come & tell me whether they draw their support from – the middle class or from some 'tribal belts' that have 'orthodox styles'? Neither Bin Laden comes from some 'mullah' background neither Ayman Al Zawahiri who happens to be a medical doctor.
I suggest you read this book:
Al-Qaeda – The True Story of Radical Islam by Jason Burke
Its not by some mullah/maulvi but by a gora writer who you are definitely more likely to believe. You might learn something about the history of muslim militancy, its root causes etc, where Osama Bin Laden was coming from, who influenced his thinking, who provided him with the religious & ideological cover, & what Al-Qaeda is and is not.
Here is the link: http://www.amazon.com/Al-Qaeda-Story-Radical-Isla…
I really cannot make out what you are trying to say over here: //"Logical person can make all impossible odds into possible evens but prudent and careful person know the extent of unreality around his surrounding .Unrealistic approach gives us fantasy, drugged imagination,enjoyable vision but all breaks in minutes in thousand pieces if reality and its bitterness comes ahead in more devastated form than our imagination."//
If i was living in some 'crystal of imagination' i would definitely come out of it but thankfully no such thing exists.
And again these 'hoors' & 'wines' are promised to the pious in the Holy Quran as well as Hadith. If you want to make fun of it in your chamchagiri of some gora pseudo-intellectuals that is your choice.
Mughal
you gave me too simple details and I know it well.
I am looking for some other details.
Details like what because all the two important books on the bio-data of Companions [May Allah be pleased with all of them] are with me 1 – Tabaqat ibn Saad by Muhammad ibn Sa'ad and 2 –
Usud al-Ghabah fi Ma'rifah al-Sahabah – The Lions of the Forest and the knowledge about the Companions Ibn al-Athir and whatever authentic I found there is quoted. What other details you need?
A1
Observe carefully it is you who one side are dependent on few gora investigative reporting for knowing the root cause of extremism in islamic state.
Jason burke was British journalist and got information of radicalism through his link with Pakistani and Afghan sources and also from views of Naom Chomsky a pure Jewish philosopher and linguistic specialist who spent his whole life in US educational institutes.
His book(I only read few pieces which contains the same points which I heard in an interview of chomsky aired in any Pakistan channel.
So it is not interesting that man never visited Pakistan or met any underground outfits but conceives the situation better than our sons of guns who daily giving us lectures on TV about high profile theories of Taliban tactics and strategies.
You know what is major difference between you and me throughout in this discussion that I talk about real issues some are quite visible and few are hidden under our hypocrisy.You are trying to take me in ideal conditions presented in Islamic society 1400 years before.
That is why I am telling you to come out of your crystal of imagination and face the surrounding with real issues.
You cant analyze the real social problems around us so you cant give solution of such problems and focus your energy on cursing me more So the day we acknowledge our wrong obsessions through fair confession,then situation would be improved.
Such imported reports clearly reveal that ideas were floated by western intelligence and then fake leaders, goof generals and corrupt political representatives were collect to launch such missions.Osama bin laden, Ziaulhaq, naseerullah babar, general fazlahaq, hameed gul,fazalurehman, qazi hussain all are pure son of soil now has been proved son of gun of Pakistan as they are still firm on their vision of creating extremism within Pakistan is right approach.
Or you want to say we are parrot like nation what gora give you agenda with dollar crates, they have to follow this plan for teaching Islam to others and putting dollars in their accounts.
I told you one thing more that pious man and woman are not in need of incentives of hoors and wines for obeying Allah's orders.It is in their nature to be obedient toward of God in all ways without thinking of such rewards.
It is just like that pious wife can never think of unfaithful acts to her husband whether her husband take care of her or go for sinful life.
Some people consider it weakness but it is their strength of characters that whatever circumstances or attractions come in their way deviation is not in their nature.
@Nazia: I didn't call you a bel, it was just a mahawra which fit perfectly the situation but i think it hit a raw nerve.
And if i am asking you to read a book don't you think i will know who the author is? I don't understand why you feel that you need to tell me who he is. I quoted him because you are so allergic to muslim sources & if i quoted you any you would at once start your rants that these are 'your mullahs', 'your madarsahs', 'your suicide bombers'. So here you have a gora writer who you will more readily believe.
And where the hell does Noam Chomsky comes in between? I think you just wanted to name drop him to show you are well read. He didn't have anything to do with this book.
And you know what you are criticizing the 'mullahs' but you are showing the same typical jew-bashing mindset that they have. What does him being 'pure Jewish' have anything to do with his writings? For your information, he might be Jewish by birth but he is an atheist in his believes – doesn't believe in a god. But nevertheless, that should not be a factor in analyzing his writings and opinions.
Who told you that Jason Burke never visited Pakistan? He has traveled throughout the region & this book is based on a lot of interviews he conducted himself.
Anyone reading our comments can assess for himself that you are trying to place blame on certain Islamic laws & provisions for social ills that have nothing to do with them. I have never said anything about going back 1400 years ago & imposing some vague concept of Khilafat in this country. You don't know my views about these things so you are in no position to comment on them.
You have some problem in understanding so i will spell it out that i was not supporting Osama Bin Laden back there & neither am i a fan of any of the names you have mentioned.
I have said before that the real social problems in our society are prostitution, homosexuality, widespread child abuse, abuse of women in the name of religion like honor killings etc. etc. as well as our hypocrisy in acknowledging that these social ills exist.
Polygamy is not an issue at all. But somehow you have dragged it into this list of problems & placed it in the same category as prostitution. And then you have miserably failed to provide any logical argument to support this assumption of yours. Name one country that has overcome these social ills just because it does not allow polygamy.
Since you couldn't name any example, you then took the argument by backbiting other people and putting allegations. You were basically trying to say that since some people break traffic signals we should do away with them – what a line of reasoning!
Then you gave that stupid example of the builder who had two wives & two girlfriends as an argument against polygamy. What was banning polygamy going to achieve? He would end up with one wife and three girlfriends instead of two wives and two girlfriends. Would it stop him from doing what he was doing? NO
So clearly you have not been able to make any argument in favor of your assertion.
You say //I told you one thing more that pious man and woman are not in need of incentives of hoors and wines//
Do you know more then Allah & his Prophet (PBUH)? Are you trying to imply that Allah does not know his creation as well as you do(naoozobillah)? These incentives have been given in several places in the Quran. Again & again & again Allah mentions that whoever follows the right path will be entered into Jannah where they will have nothing to worry about.
There is such a thing as being hard-headed but i think you are suffering from a severe case of narcissism.
A1
In our system usually bail shaib(bull) have violent nature who can thrash you if you try to provoke him or would try to negate him.
on the other hand bibi bahnis is quite ignorant or might be innocent that who is playing the been in front of her to convey different messages as she thinks that been is used to control snake .
So you are linguistic specialist of web and dont create tricky ways and if consider me low IQ BAHANIS then nothing to afraid as you are in need of special attention rather than cursing in same way as you are doing.
It was just a mahawra. OK. I was not calling you a bel. Take it for what it means.
A1
Oh thanks for your caring attitude that for my western mentality you searched top class western journalists for impressing me.
I had no time to read the lengthy discussions of authors like jason and noam chomsky but I love to read their conclusive statements.If their detail research and investigative reporting couldnt influence their own govts or creates stir in their social circles so who consider them authentic in our side.
If I am not wrong Jason many books are quoted in Chomsky books (including Imperial Ambitions) this is known as Burke’s clever move or his similar understanding with chomsky on role of imperialism behind all such wars of terror fought on the basis of religions. Indeed Noam Chomsky even lends the book his credit with a quick quote on top of the rear cover of his editions.
So just think for a while if jason is correct in his perceptions than who give weaknesses of islamic culture in the hands of typical imperialist block of world?
They are the Muslim rulers and leaders themselves.
I was talking about chomsky who didn’t visit ever here.
So you see now it is not matter for you if even atheists too work in same way of your interests.
If something I do to follow their comments then you took no time to call me westernize secular mentality creature.
But you remain followers of Islam after giving all kind of reference of British background people or from purist Jewish lobby.
What a logic of balance you create in your mind!
Poly gamy is a serious issue and had become problem in Islamic state that is why special laws are made to protect the women /if you are not accepting this factual statement then what can I do for you.
Prostitution is not forced profession and people acquired or take it by choice so dont link it with gang rapes and child abuse matters.
If you get the data of Mediterranean belt you found rare cases of gang rapes and child molestation.Women are not bound to typical dress codes and quite at ease while moving and traveling alone.Here woman 2nd marriages are quite common practices as we see that such practice are not found in subcontinent,therefore I called them much liberal than our side.
Nothing to flare as I felt all on personal basis in such Muslim countries as compared to my culture.
If you are not agree then enjoy your experience instead of cursing me.I had no such remarks about saudia culture in which if I WAS FORCED to live surely a saudi could have been killed and I would be beheaded too.
They are senseless aggressive species just like you.
@Nazia: Thank you for considering me a part of 'senseless aggressive species'. We humans can be like that sometimes.
First of all have you ever read Noam Chomsky? Jason Burke's book is nothing like Chomsky's writings. He is an investigative journalist by profession. Chomsky is not a journalist by profession.
Chomsky happens to be one of the most widely respected dissident writers & campaigners in the world (dissident means one who disagrees in opinion – from their government in this context). He has been campaigning against the imperialist policies of the US, Israel, & other countries since something like 50 years.
Secondly, I don't consider any writer a prophet & accept everything he has to say. Neither do i reject it outright because he or she happens to be a jew, christian, atheist, muslim, mullah or maulvi.
I don't agree with everything Jason Burke has to say in his book. In fact he fails to criticize the Western governments for their imperialist policies that have lead to the growth of terrorism in the first place.
I don't agree with his concluding analysis neither his assertion that militant teachings are justified from the Quran. But besides that the book has analyzed in great detail together with references what Al-Qaeda really is & is not & who were the most important ideologues that have influenced the thinking of such militant groups. These include Hasan Al Bana of Egypt & our own Maulana Maududi.
First read the book and then criticize it. You are quite wrong that he happens to be promoting some imperialist agenda in the book.
And what do you think 'Imperialist Ambitions' is about? Its a critique of imperialist policies not in support of them.
Yes i remain a follower of Islam & i am proud to be a muslim. I don't see how my giving references of British journalists jeopardizes my beliefs.
And just because someone happens to be a jew does not mean that he belongs to the 'purist Jewish lobby'. Anyone who has made the effort to read what Chomsky has been saying & writing about for so many years (which you clearly have not)will know for sure that he is not a jewish lobbyist by any stretch of the imagination.
You are criticizing the mullah's but display exactly the same warped mentality by dismissing someone outrightly because he happens to be a jew.
Chomsky for your information has been the most vociferous critic of the US/Israeli policies in the middle east & has been supporting the Palestinian rights to a separate homeland.
I agree with his analysis. That does not mean that i have to agree with everything he says or i have to be an atheist to accept his arguments.
You say: //If their detail research and investigative reporting couldnt influence their own govts//
Of course their government's are not going to listen to them & people like them – they are criticizing their governments for their elitist & imperialist policies. They are campaigning against the Wars imposed by the US in Iraq & Afghanistan. Why would the government listen to them?
As far as the people are concerned they don't get to listen to these points of views because people like Chomsky don't have access to any form of mass media & it is deliberately kept this way. The media is used to mold public opinion to side with the power elite. Read Chomsky's book 'Manufacturing Consent' to understand how the media is used in getting public support for government policies.
The lead up to the Iraq War is an example of just how the media is used in manipulating public opinion. Leading up to the War, the public in the US was made to think that Saddam Hussain was a grave threat to the USA & had links with Al-Qaeda even though he had nothing to do with Al-Qaeda & he neither had the capability nor was crazy enough to attack the United States or any of its allies.
Again I don't know which country you live in where polygamy is a serious issue. I don't know of anyone personally who has more then one marriage. Its not at all prevalent in our culture. I don't know why your are making it into such a big issue & placing it in the same category as prostitution.
Of all the examples you give of rich & influential people, banning polygamy is not going to prevent them from sleeping with other women. It will just remove a legal & respectful way for them to have these relationships & they will probably start keeping girlfriends & mistresses like politicians in the west do. It is not going to prevent abuse of woman. Instead it will lead to an increase in abuse by denying women their right to a respectful life.
I am not convinced. Neither by your assertion that you are not backbiting but 'frontbiting' & not doing anything wrong by naming people, neither by your assertion that doing away with polygamy will stop people in positions of power and wealth from sleeping with other women (there is no proof and in fact plenty of proof to the contrary – Bill Clinton, Tiger Woods to name just a few high profile men), neither by your assertion that pious people do not need any incentives which happens to be in direct contradiction with the Quran where again and again God promises the pious a reward in the hereafter.
A1
What ever You tried to say me through you distorted mahawara I responded you in same manner.
Take few more days to understand it.
I don't think i will be able to understand what you have written completely if i spent the next month on it. You can help by answering the following questions:
What do you mean 'our system'? Do you have your own system of bels?
Are the bel's only violent in your system?
What is a 'bail shaib'?
What is 'bibi bahnis'?
Are you referring to yourself as 'bibi bahnis'?
What is a 'linguistic specialist of web'? Is it some sort of certification?
yes please miss nazia!
and kindly elaborate the system in which "bibi bhanis" takes over the roll of "bull sahab"
Nazia, also i forgot to ask:
In your system of bels is polygamy permitted to 'bail shaibs'?
Is the 'bail shaib' allowed to mate with as many 'low IQ BAHANIS' as he wants or he can have only one?
Is the 'bail shaib' allowed to keep girlfriends & mistresses?
Oh Aone
you understand my explanation more than my realization.
hence proving the credibility of phrase
a bel mujhay mar and you proved that bels are all time ready to hit who show them red cloth or try to take over the role of bull.
No one can take place of each other as God made them with unique features and both actually balance each other weaknesses and proved to be strongest relation as long as both are dependent on each other.
bahnis is not interested in been music and people waste lot of their precious time to play beens purposelessly.
yes sure
Polygamy is biologically permitted to bailz of our system each year for definite period but in your system it is allowed around the year because humans are considered as superior class among all living being.
In God made system they are allowed to pick as much as they have natural potential but in your system some limit of numbers of bahnis is prescribed to keep his potential stored for other social jobs too.
So human bels missed no chance to show this kind of superiority on other living being until few govt started thinking that bels are crossing all limits .
Some realistic approach group estimated the grave situation produce after unrestricted polygamy and put few hurdles in way to bels so that extra effort would unenergized them at early stage of activation towards glamor of polygamy.
Why few Islamic govt thought of discouraging polygamy as it was according to Sunnah?
Because it highly disrupts the normal family set up and create lot of psychological and financial jerks in life of community.
In any comment you told me that I live in fear that my husband might bring young bride any time.
No I dont live in this fear but God forbid(tumhery moon maon khak) if some how it is happened it would be death of my soul,trust and confidence on one of strongest relation in any women's life.
For modest woman her husband is her pride, sense of protection and her all time sehallee(friend) who share all delicate and sensitive matters of her life which she cant even think of sharing to close blood relations.
It is a greatest shock up to level of extreme humiliation that become torturous part of wife and children for their rest of life.
So it depends upon nature and upbringing of bail to opt for peace of mind by having one wife and one family or go for disturbed and distributed life among many wives and mistresses.
Nazia, now you have got me even more confused. I still need answers:
what is a 'bail shaib' & a ‘bibi bahnis’? Still not clear about this.
This is what i think: In your system of bels you are the ‘bibi bahnis’ & your husband is the 'bail shaib'. Did i get it right?
Now you say: //"a bel mujhay mar and you proved that bels are all time ready to hit who show them red cloth or try to take over the role of bull"//
Don't get it. Are you the bel? Or are you taking over the role of a bel? I am confused who is hitting whom over here.
You say: //bahnis is not interested in been music//
Have you done some research to back this theory up? Some references would help.
You say: //Polygamy is biologically permitted to bailz of our system each year for definite period but in your system it is allowed around the year because humans are considered as superior class among all living being.//
I need to clarify that every human does not have his own system. Humans generally follow several different religions & systems. I am a Muslim and so follow the Islamic System.
Now in your system you say polygamy is permitted to 'bailz' for definite period only. This is interesting. Please elaborate.
Then you say: //So human bels missed no chance to show this kind of superiority on other living being//
Now you have got me really confused. What is a 'human bel'? Are you carrying out some sort of sick twisted inter-species cross breeding program?
You are really starting to sound very strange.
A1
So after lecturing me on history , English language crash course, now you are spoon feeding me about the philosophy of western people.
Who is challenging your association with Islam.
Your diversions prove that you are representing Islam.
I have already told you that I have no time to read noam and burke in detail I only read and heard them for little time .
You have interest and time for such details and it is good that you shared with us but as I said that their high profile longtime research and investigative reporting didn't create stir within their system
Do you think that executioners and planners of such deadly games in our system bother to read such research and give importance during strategy creation period.
No surely not as they have their personal interests behind such plans that drives them in the direction where nation depending on their polices become out of direction and that is where we are standing now, direction less, aimless and unprincipled by nature.
So I focus my criticism /discussion to my people, my wrongly interpreted religious beliefs and my lost values .
You name my attitude as backbiting but I am just highlighting the issues in simple way but you try to take me whirlpool of confusions again and again.
@Al, koi faida nahi he.
@Nazia aap ke liye aik aur mahawara: Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt
Nadia
it is not matter of faida and nuqsan in any matter of discussion but this way you know the attitude of front man.
I am not favor of keep silence policy unless people cross all boundaries of manners.
People say that speak is siver and silence is gold but in my way of living it is reversed.
It gives you feelings of liveliness even hot discussion and secondly more people speak more you know them or might able to get new experiences of knowing God made species.
This sometime helps a lot to people who make choice of solitary confinement due to some fear of facing bad nature people in secured life.
Aone
You want to listen from me that you are a intellectual and high profile knowledgeable human being.
Have a superior conceivability of religion, history and linguistic techniques through your inbuilt or acquired skills .
That is ok
then why you jumped into this "dunger" business with low IQ, confused, jahil people like me.
Its better to find the same like you and I think mughal is best option to pick in this forum.
Dont think deeply about this bail and bahnis culture and characteristics and try to refrain such quotes again in your phrases.
let this paindoo terms in the range of paindoos only .
Nazia: Who told you i was 'intellectual' & 'high profile'? I am an ordinary human being with quite an average level of intelligence. But yes this 'dunger' business is not for me. That is why you have me all confused. Still not clear about this 'bel' system of yours.
Are there any other jeans with the same level of detail as True Religion.