Dr. Aamir Liaquat Hussain a famous religious host of a show called Aalim Online which airs frequently on Geo TV has entered some hot waters in the past few days. It is believed that his comments on the show may have incited Muslims to target and kill followers of the Ahmedi sect. Dr. Aamir has been running this show for the past many years and has developed a strong following catapulting him to fame to the extent that many Pakistanis swear by his religious commentary on TV, and remains a highly sought after show specially during the month of Ramadan.
Historically Dr. Aamir Liaquat Hussain has had his taste of controversy which started of from his fake degrees where this blogger had labeled him as Jahil Online back in 2005, he was then associated with MQM for a few years and ultimately had a falling out with the party over a controversial comment he made on TV condemning the British author Salman Rushdie, saying that Salman Rushdie should be killed for blaspheming the Holy Prophet (PBUH) in his book, Satanic Verses, after making this comment Mr. Online refused to retract his statement despite immense pressure from the top London based MQM leadership which ultimately lead to his dismissal and soon he also resigned from his Ministry
Asian Human Rights Watch reports that on 7th September in his program ‘Aalim Online’ the anchor declared the murder of Ahmadi sect members to be necessary (Wajib ul Qatal) according to Islamic teachings, because its followers don’t believe in the last prophet, Mohammad, peace be upon him.
Dr. Amir repeated his instruction several times, urging fundamentalists Muslims to kill without fear. While on air the anchor person also pressured the other two Islamic scholars (from two different sects) on the program to support the statement. This resulted in a unanimous decision among the scholars, on air during a popular television show, to urge lynching with the intent to kill.
This was not a one-off. On September 9, Mr. Hussain answered a query with the comment that blasphemers are liable to be put to death.
According to the information received, at 1:15pm on September 8, 18 hours after the broadcast, six persons entered the Fazle Umer Clinic, a two-story hospital at Mirpurkhas city and two of them went to the second floor and started pressuring 45 year-old Dr. Abdul Manan Siddiqui to come downstairs to attend to a patient in crisis. Dr. Manan left his office and descended into an ambush. He was shot 11 times and died on the spot. His private guard was also shot and is in a serious condition. A woman was also injured by firing. The killers remained at the hospital until the doctor was declared dead, then they walked out of the building’s front entrance. Police registered the killers as unknown.
On September 9, 48 hours after the broadcast, Mr. Yousaf, a 75 year-old rice trader and district chief of the Ahmadi sect was killed on his way to prayer in Nawab Shah, Sindh province. Yousaf was fired on from people on motor bikes, and sustained three bullet wounds. He died on the way to the hospital. The assailants had taken a route past a police station. No one was arrested.
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Comments
664 responses to “Aalim Online – Inciting murder against Ahmedi’s”
Bilal Shah Man ..calm down…have patience…God said in Holy Quran that..”i will punish them who was aganist my prophets”.
Again my Qadiani brothers conveniently chose to ignore references given by ‘Muslim’ and ‘Newoberserver’ above. Is that the kind of language ‘prophets’ use, for whatever reason?
@Bilal
QUOTE- So I would now advise you stop spreading lies-UNQUOTE
I find this sentence be quite funny. What exactly did I tell a lie?
Did Mirza Sb say that when you have sex with your wife or love Allah you cannot differentiate? YES or NO
Did Mirza Sb say that tears jump out of your eyes just like sperm jumps out during ejaculation? YES or NO
Did Mirza Sb say that entering sperms into genitals of a women is matter of great delight and is just like loving Allah? YES or NO
Whenever I read the passage from the writings of the Promised Messiah (AS) you referred me to, it just makes me praise my Lord more and more. The philosophy that Promised Messiah (AS) has mentioned in those passages is so great that it makes my faith firmer and stronger than ever before on the truth of Promised Messiah.
When you first brought up this passage here in this thread, you failed to mention (intentionally or unintentionally, only my Allah knows) that the passage you were referring to was actually explaining the verses of HOLY QURAN. For the benefit of those who have pious, righteous, and unbiased hearts, I would try to give a gist of the explanation given by Promised Messiah (AS) in regards to the following verses of the Holy Quran from Chapter “Al-Mominoon”:
[23:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[23:2] Successful indeed are the believers,
[23:3] Who are humble in their Prayers,
[23:4] And who shun all that which is vain,
[23:5] And who are prompt and regular in paying the Zakat,
[23:6] And who guard their chastity –
[23:7] Except from their wives or what their right hands possess, for then they are not to be blamed;
[23:8] But those, who seek anything beyond that are the transgressors –
[23:9] And who are watchful of their trusts and their covenants,
[23:10] And who are strict in the observance of their Prayers.
[23:11] These are the heirs,
[23:12] Who will inherit Paradise. Tey will abide therein for ever.
[23:13] Verily, We created man from an extract of clay;
[23:14] Then We placed him as a drop of sperm in a safe depository;
[23:15] Then We fashioned the sperm into a clot; then We fashioned the clot into a shapeless lump; then We fashioned bones out of this shapeless lump; Then We clothed the bones with flesh; Then We developed it into another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators.
So according to Promised Messiah (AS), Allah Almighty mentions the 6 stages of man’s spiritual development first, and then straight after Allah Almighty mentions the 6 stages of man’s physical development.
Like the most initial stage of physical life “a sperm” is under danger of being wasted as long as the womb (Rahm) doesn’t accept it, the most initial stage of spiritual life “Khushoo” is under danger of being wasted as long as the Merciful (Rahim) God doesn’t accept it. Like the sperm has got all the necessary elements present in it that are needed for a completely developed physical being in the sixth stage, similarly Khushoo (humility, passion, crying in rememberance of God) is the first stage of spiritual existance and contains all the elements necessary for the completely developed and perfect spiritual existance.
Here the connection established by the Promised Messiah of the spiritual life and the physical life is so beautiful that one only praise and thank the Lord for sending us the Promised Messiah in this world at a time when the whole world seems to have gone far away from God Almighty.
The thing which is important to note here is that Promised Messiah (AS) is talking about the attribute of God ie. “Rahim” (magnificence) and not “Rahmaan” (Graciousness). “Rahmaan” attribute of God means that God blesses us with our necesseties without us asking him eg. sun, moon, water, earth, air, our parents, all the things necessary for our survival etc. We never asked God for these blessings but they were already provided to us by our Gracious God before we came to this earth. Rahim attribute of God on the other hand is when God blesses us in return of our own efforts, supplications and prayers before Him.
So Promised Messiah is not talking about the Rahmaan attribute here but the Rahim attribute of God and how God responds to our prayers. What is the correct way of supplicating before God and what is acceptable in the eyes of God. Likewise what is it that God doesn’t like and accept.
So like the sperm is dependent on the attraction of womb towards it for its survival and is under danger for as long as womb doesn’t accept it, the state of Khushoo is dependent upon the attraction of God Almighty towards Him and is under danger for as long as God Almighty doesn’t accept the way supplications are made. This is the reason according to Promised Messiah that so many people go waste spiritually even after their supplications, slogan raisings and loud crying. As they never establish a connection with the Merciful God all their supplications, loud crying and slogan raising go waste. So like sperm without the attraction of womb is nothing, similarly state of Khushoo is nothing without the attraction of Merciful God. Like thousands of sperms go waste for not being accepted by the womb, similarly thousands of beings go waste in this world for not being accepted by God Almighty. Thousands of ignorant souls think that they have become attained spiritual heights because of the supplications (khushoo) for a few days, but they forget that they are nothing more than a wondering sperm in a body.
There can be many reasons for a khushoo to be not acceptable to Merciful God. eg. Khushoo in the state of associating partners with Allah, khushoo containing arrogance in it, khushoo containing innovations, or khushoo that contains filth. With all these spiritual ills the khushoo doesn’t remain worthy of being accepted by Merciful God, like the sperm remains unacceptable by the womb for as long as it has got ills/deseases. So the connection or lack of it with ‘Rahm’ (womb) and ‘Rahim’ (Merciful) is same the difference lies in the nature of physical or spiritual deseases associated with ‘sperm’ and the ‘Khushoo’. So if someone receives delight in “Khushoo” doen’t mean that a connection with God has been established too, like even if the sperm enters the body and the person receives the delight as well, it doesn’t necessitate the establishment with the womb. For that other indications are necessary. So the Khushoo that is done for the sake of worldly pleasures is similar to the delight one receives after inserting the sperm into an illicit female’s body. So this is the case with the idol worshippers or those who worship human beings. Their khushoo gives them nothing more than a pleasure for few moments. They do not establish a connection with the Merciful God and God doesn’t accept their Khushoo.
I must thank you for giving me the opportunity to read these pearls of wisdom from the writings of the one who was sent by Allah Almighty as the Messiah of Muhammad (PBUH). I only pray to Allah Almighty that our Khashoo is accepted by the Merciful God. All our prayers, supplications, prostrations, and crying will not give us any benefit if they are not accepted by our Merciful God. May Allah accept our prayers, may He forgive our sins and may He ignore our mistakes. (Ameen Summa Ameen)
Bilal
The above post is addressed to newobserver.
@Bilal
As usual you have ignored my question. My first question is what exactly did I tell a lie? PLEASE ANSWER
Did Mirza Sb say that when you have sex with your wife or love Allah you cannot differentiate? YES or NO – PLEASE ANSWER
Did Mirza Sb say that tears jump out of your eyes just like sperm jumps out during ejaculation? YES or NO – PLEASE ANSWER
Did Mirza Sb say that entering sperms into genitals of a women is matter of great delight and is just like loving Allah? YES or NO – PLEASE ANSWER
@newobserver,
I had genuinely thought that after reading the full passage you would acknowledge the beauty of the passage and praise Allah Almighty, but certainly I was wrong.
I put a great effort in answering your allegation, but your response only disappointed me. Anyway if you want short answer to your questions here it goes:
1. No 2. No 3. No
If your intention is only to redicule then you should redicule God Forbid those verses of Holy Quran as well that declare Jews and Christians of the past as monkeys and pigs. You need to redicule that verse of Holy Quran as well that declares one’s wife as his crop, the age of Noah (AS) as 950 years so on and so forth. To me all these verses make perfect sense and only give me an opportunity to praise my Lord Allah. They need pure heart to understand and receive benefits from these sayings.
Bilal
I would like to take this opportunity to raise another important issue here. The Geo program under discussion contained two ‘scholars’ in the studios in addition to the host of the program. One of the ‘scholars’ was representing Sunnis and the other one was representing Shias. The Sunni ‘scholar’ put an allegation against the Promised Mesiah (AS) in the program that he apparantly said in one of his writings that Quran mentions three cities. 1 Mecca 2. Medina 3. Qadian. He then rediculed and said we all very well know that Qadian is not mentioned in the Holy Quran but Mirza sb. thought so. The Mullah was LYING and HIDING the TRUTH as I will explain to you now.
The translation of the real passage from the book ‘Izalah Auham’ this is what really the Promised Messiah (AS) wrote:
‘In a STATE OF VISION, I saw that my brother, the late Mirza Ghulam Qadir is sitting close to me, reciting the Holy Quran aloud. In the course of recitation, he recited: We have sent it down close to Qadian. I expressed my surprise that the name of Qadian should be mentioned in the Holy Quran, on which he said: Here it is, you can see. I looked and saw that this revelation was set out about the middle of the right page of the Holy Quran. Then I said to myself: It is true that the name of Qadian is mentioned in the Holy Quran and I also said: Three names are mentioned with honour in the Holy Quran: Mecca and Medina and Qadian.’ (Izalah Auham)
As evident from the above passage, this entire episode is stated by Hadhrat Ahmad (AS) to have been observed in a state of vision. The Mullah in the program deliberately deceived others by not hiding the truth and taking thing completely out of context.
All those who are seeking truth, just think about it, why would a so called ‘scholar’ tell a lie on the national TV to declare the Promised Messiah (AS) as false? Just think about it with pure heart. What purpose would it fulfill? This should be a proof enough for any righteous soul to acknowledge and accept the truth in Ahmadiyyat.
My friends, this is not a small matter. Ponder over this. We have got a very short life and then one day the reality will strike us and we will return to our God Almighty. It is better to wake up today than to remain in deep sleep until the moment when we are woken up to be taken away from this world.
Wassalam,
Bilal
Visit http://www.thecult.info/
a site by A Muslim brother who left Qadyanism an year ago and now Mashallah enjoying Ramadan with millions of Muslims.
@Bilal: show the verse where Qadian is mentioned? there was no city as such named Qadian at all.
@Adnan Siddiqui,
Read my post again. The Promised Messiah (AS) only saw the aname of Qadian in Quran in a state of VISION (Kashf).
Plz visite this website
http://www.alislam.org/
You will finde where is the reall islam.
Allah guide us all to the right path.
As usual, the Qadiani friends are shying away from the facts, as evident in the publications of Mr. Mirza Ghulam Qadiani. I once again request these friends to read the publications of their ‘leader’ present on their own websites and decide whether the language used in them can be used by a decent person, let alone a ‘prophet’. If I were a Qadiani Murabbi (God forbid), I would have taken off these books from these websites ASAP, but I guess nothing would be left on these sites in that case………
why are all the muslims shying away from my questions!
notwithstanding the fact that we are not following christianity in its true spirit; at least LORD JESUS did not do anything that would embarrass us to shy away from social questions….
@bilal: that doesn’t seem Kashf. That seems he was high after having marijuana or something.
stop being an Idiot kid. Where Muhammad(saw) or Allah mentioned that you read quran by using so called Kashf when even Allah said to Muhammad(SAW) him to “Read!”[Iqra] rather asking to use Kashf.
No wonder I can see that even in 21st century we are not able to get rid of illiteracy and ignorance among people.
May God bless you and show the right path-Ameen
Below are further gems from the book “The Truth About The Split” written by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad, the so called promosed refomer of Islam and s/o the so called prophet Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. (who was apparently the promised Messiah of Islam)
“Now, as Islam bases its judgments upon what is patent
and not upon what is possible, it
cannot but class as kafir such as fail to accept any of
the Prophets, even though such failure may be due to
their want of information concerning him. In the latter
case, they will not, of course, be the objects of Divine
punishment. The denial would be due to causes
altogether beyond their control. It is in accordance
with the same principle that Muslims have so long
with one accord designated as kuffar all those who
have not accepted the faith of Islam, without taking
into consideration the question whether or not such
failure is occasioned by want of adequate information
concerning the Holy Prophetsa. And the doctor is yet
to be born who will class in the category of Muslims
the Esquimaux of the North Pole, the Red Indians of
America, the Hottentots of Africa or the Maoris of
Australia, or those millions of Christians, who living
in central Europe or in other out of the way places
have not yet heard anything regarding the teachings of
the Holy Prophet sa.”
Further extracts from the book “The Truth About The Split” written by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad, the so called promosed refomer of Islam and s/o the so called prophet Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
“As for the question of Kufr (unbelief) of non-Ahmadi Muslims, my belief is that Kufr really arises from a denial of God. Hence, whenever there comes any revelation from God of such a nature that its acceptance is obligatory on every man, a rejection of the same leads to Kufr. Belief in such a revelation, however, presupposes belief in the bearer of the
revelation. Hence it follows that a belief in the bearer of such revelation is a necessary part of one’s faith.The man who rejects a Prophet thus necessarily
becomes a kafir, not because he denies the truth of any particular Prophet X or Y, but such denial will necessarily lead him to reject a revelation of God.”
“To me, the Kufr which arises from the denial of any Nabi has its basis in this principle and not in any personal quality of the Nabi. And inasmuch as the revelation of which the acceptance is obligatory on mankind comes
only through Prophets, it is the rejection of such recipients of Divine revelation, and not of others that leads to unbelief. Now, as we hold that the revelation which came to the Promised Messiahas are such that their acceptance is obligatory on mankind in general, to us, the man who rejects the Promised Messiahas is a kafir agreeably to the teachings of the Holy Quran, although he may well be a believer in all the other truths of religion because the presence even of one of the necessary conditions of Kufr is sufficient to make a man kafir.”
Can any sane person accept the following to be the revelations of a prophet? What on earth does this vision mean?
‘In a STATE OF VISION, I saw that my brother, the late Mirza Ghulam Qadir is sitting close to me, reciting the Holy Quran aloud. In the course of recitation, he recited: We have sent it down close to Qadian. I expressed my surprise that the name of Qadian should be mentioned in the Holy Quran, on which he said: Here it is, you can see. I looked and saw that this revelation was set out about the middle of the right page of the Holy Quran. Then I said to myself: It is true that the name of Qadian is mentioned in the Holy Quran and I also said: Three names are mentioned with honour in the Holy Quran: Mecca and Medina and Qadian.’ (Izalah Auham)
Saqib,
Fear Allah, and stop trying to mislead Muslims.
Everything related to prophethood written before 1902 has been abrogated.
I am sure, you know that pre 1901-02 Mirza Ghulam Ahmad said that he was not a Prophet and anyone calling themselves a prophet was a non-muslim. Well after the publication of the pamphlet Ayk Ghalati Ka Izala (‘Correction of an error’) published in November 1901 he changed his claim to that of Prophet. So your quote from Tiryaq-ul-Qulub, Ruhani Khaza’in, Vol. 15, pp. 432-433 is an act of duplicity. Not even your so called Khalifa believes that!!
Mr Haris Zuberi,
Please refrain from calling Ghulam Kafir Qadiani by any other name. He was not a Ghulam of Ahmed, he was a ghulam of Kafir.
So from now on, refer to him as Ghulam Kafir Qadiani.
MIrza Qadyani(Lanatullah) says about Liars:
1)He is Murtad(Apostate)
2)Saying lie means eating $shit(Goo)
3)Even bast ards don’t say lies
and then same Mirza lied several timess in his life, one about his false prophesies and then about biggest lie that QADIAN is mentioned in Quran. So in reality Mirza suits well in his own criteria 🙂
I love his lies when he claimed that 40 million people had converted to Ahmadiyyat in one year!!
That in is itself was ridiculous and retarded.
Guess what happened the next year, he claimed 80 million converts.
That put him Ahmadis at the 200 million mark.
Well if you check there website nowadays I think they have regressed to 70 odd million.
Which is still a fantastic lie, but not as bad as the 200 million one.
Another proof of the defeat of Mirza Tahir Ahmad Kahilfa 4th of Ahmadis is that sometime in 1998/99 he suddenly fell ill when on a trip to Norway or some such place.
This perfectly coincided with a mubahila with a person by the name of Illias Suttar.
I can attest to the fact that Mirza Tahir Ahmad was in superb health up till 1999. I have seen so many of his QA sessions on MTA and he was in perfect health.
Ahmadis don’t tell you about the mubahila that he lost do they!!!
And when you confront Ahmadis with this they claim that their leader never accepted the challenge!
What and Zia did?!?!?!?!
Who are you guys trying to fool????
Do you think Zia is going to accept a challenge from a 2 bit which doctor like Mirza Tahir???
Predicting that General Zia was going to meet a violent death is a bit like predicting it’s going to snow in Siberia next year. He had gone after just about everyone in his life. He had gone after Shias, helped to kill thousands of Russians with his support for the Afghans, killed god knows how many politicians. He had refused to roll back Pakistan’s nuclear program that really pissed of the Americans and Israelis to name just a few. There were countless political outfits in Pakistan vying for his blood.
It’s just amazing he lived as long as he did infact!!
You don’t have to be a genius to see that many of the ramblings of their Kahlifa’s are as retarded as those of the Taliban!
ALSO, why are you Qadianis trying to pretend that you don’t believe in the writings of Khalifa II Mirza Mahmood Ahmad.
They use to, and still do in private I am willing to bet, claim thay Mirza Mahmood Ahmad was the PROMISED SON of Mirza Ghuluam Ahmad. (As well as being the promised reformer of Islam, which is sooo offensive to Muslims, I am not sure weather to laugh or cry!!)
So how can you now all distance your selves from the writings of Mirza Mahmood Ahmad and the quotes I have presented from the book The Truth About The Split if your own PROPHET fore told of his coming??
Also why is it an article of faith that Jesus died ion Kashmir? How do we know that he didn’t die in Jalandhar?
Please don’t start giving me scientific proofs that Kashmiris and Pathans are all really actually Jews. I have heard everything from the occurence of thalassemia to Tombs of Jesus and chronicles in the Vedas about a man similar to Jesus in India at about the right time. They are in my opinion bogus beyond any doubt!!!
Where in the Islamic literature does it talk about the lost tribes of Israel???
If you want I will take a mubahilla with your Khalifa to prove my points.
One of the boasts that I love hearing from Qadianis is how Khalifa 4th had mubahilla with Zia and Khalifa gee won.
Well even a which doctor would be ashamed of making such ridiculous claims. It was recently revealed that the C130 had a design flaw and in certain conditions would oscillate wildly. Telemetry readings from Zia's plane showed exactly this happened. So even though Mirza Tahir celebrated at the death of Zia and claimed it was due to a mubahilla it shows what a liar this so called man of God was!!!!!
@Bilal
At your convenience you again ignored my first question. You had put an allegation on me that I told a lie and I asked where – now you are ignoring this question deliberately again and again. Now come to your answers:
QUOTE – Anyway if you want short answer to your questions here it goes:
1. No 2. No 3. No – UNQUOTE
This is a such a clear and vivid example of blatant lies, trademark of mirzais. Now let me give the proof to everyone who is reading this blog how mirzais lie and cheat all the world.
1. Did Mirza Sb say that when you have sex with your wife or love Allah you cannot differentiate? YES or NO
You have replied in “NO” – such a beautiful example of lie. I would request everyone to go to alislam.org and download Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya vol. 5. Type 197 in Adobe, page 197 will open. Start reading from line#2, it says:
Uss Jahan mein jau ek shaks apni biwi sey muhabbat aur ikhtlaat karey gaa woh iss baat mein faraq nahin kar sakey ga keh woh apni bivi sey muhabbat aur ikhtilaat karta hey ya muhabbat-e-Ilahia key darya-e bey payan mein gharq hey aur waslaan-e-Hazrat Izzat per issi jahaan mein yeh kaifiat taari ho jaati hey.
This is translated as below:
” in the afterworld a person who would love and have intercourse with his wife will be unable to differentiate if he made love to his wife or if he was indulged into immense love of God. And those who get in contact with Almighty, experience the same feeling even in this world”
I invite all Ahmadis and Muslims to read this passage and then look at the “NO” of Mr Bilal and say together Laanat Allahe Alal Kazibeen.
I will insha’Allah prove the lie of answer number 2 & 3 in a separate post.
@Newobserver,
So now you are talking about a totally different ‘passage’ and not the one we were discussing earlier? Why would you totally ignore the passage you referred to earlier and then move to a totally new passage? Does that mean you acknowledge your mistake/deception (only Allah knows) in the earlier passage?
Anyway, I am unable to find the ‘new’ passage you are referring to now. Braheen-Ahmadiyya Vol 5 contains the book “Aina-E-Kamalat-e-Islam”. I have checked the pages you referred to in that book, but I couldn’t find anything close to what you are referring to. Can you kindly give me the ‘correct’ reference, so that I can truly see what exactly the Promised Messiah said?
Bilal
@Haris Zuberi,
Who told you that we Ahmadi Muslims consider Jesus’ migration to Kashmir as an ARTICLE OF FAITH? We believe that all the true prophets of God were nothing more than human beings and Jesus (AS) was just one of such true prophets of God. According to Quran all prophets have passed away including Jesus (AS). We then infer from the teachings of Quran, hadith, earlier scriptures, and historical material available that the most probable route Jesus (AS) took after his survival from the cross was Eastwards. Now you have yourself mentioned some of the reasons why we consider Kashmir as his last abode on this earth.
We however unlike non-Ahmadi Muslims totally reject the notion that Jesus (AS) flied to heavens bodily/physically and someone else in his place was put on the cross who was given the resemblence of Jesus (AS). To us this sort of theory only looks good in fairytale stories or Hollywood movies. It has nothing to do with reality.
Bilal
lads, you are so poor in answering my two questions; i now have another one for you, lets see if you can answer this one!
is it permitted in your religion to have sex with a woman who has become a prisoner of war?
only say YES or NO pls – no rubbish
@ Bilal: So I guess the concept of ‘Wahi’, Prophet Muhammad’s (PBUH) ‘Miraaj’ and the Rising of the Dead on the day of Judgment, for instance, may also seem like fairy tales to you? Right?
@Mightyheart,
I don’t think I was responding to your post. But anyway, you have mentioned three important issues here.
1. Wahi: To us “Wahi” is the communication of man with Allah. This is mentioned in Quran and Ahmadi Muslims are the only sect in Islam that believes in Wahi even today. As God of yesterday spoke, He speaks today too and will continue to take place. It is the non-Ahmadi Muslims who reject “Wahi” now. I don’t know what is the relation of Wahi with the concept of Jesus’ (AS) aparant physical ascent.
2. Holy Prophet’s (PBUH) Miraj: There too seems to be some misunderstanding. This is also mentioned in Quran so we certainly believe in this event. We as Ahmadi Muslims however don’t consider it to be a physical journey of Holy Prophet (PBUH). We believe it to be a spiritual journey (ie. Kashf or Vision of highest status). There are a number of reasons why we don’t consider it to be as physical journey of Holy Prophet but I think that will make this post too long. To make it just precise and short, I would just say that God doesn’t have a phsyical body and He is not located at a certain place. One doesn’t need to physically move from one’s place to be close to Allah. Journey of Miraj was a journey of Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) towards Allah Almighty and Holy Prophet (PBUH) didn’t need to move from his place to be close to Allah. Allah was already with Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).
3. Rising of the Dead: Once again there seems to be some kind of misunderstanding. I don’t know what your belief is regarding this issue, but we don’t believe that dead people will physically be taken out of their graves. When a person dies, his body remains in the world but the soul is taken away. So its the rising of the soul and not the body.
Now what proof do you have from Quran to suggest that Jesus (AS) was taken up bodily alive to heavens?
boys, i am yearning to have an answer from you!
is it permitted in your religion to have sex with a woman who has become a prisoner of war?
no rubbish pls; only say YES or NO
@Bilal
I am surprised at the level of your incompetence about books of Mr Mirza. Let me give a run down of what happened, you wrote on Sep 13,2:15 am,
“I swear by God that whatever you have quoted there as “writings” of Promised Messiah are nothing but either things translated into English totally wrongly to give a wrong impression or are total fabrications, or are things taken out of context.”
I replied to this and gave you a link so Sep 16, 5:50 pm:
“http://www.alislam.org/urdu/rk/
It is item# 79:
Roohani Khazain Volume 21 – INDEX 21
79. Braheen Ahmadiyya – Vol. 5”
And I also said in the same post:
“Please go to the link, open the book. Read it in complete and full context, it will be very clear that Mirza Sb is explaining that Allah has made two loves. Love of God and love of sex. When you will to paradise these loves will be of such a nature that will become so similar if you have sex with your wife, you won’t be sure if you had sex or you loved God. Whereas, people like Mirza Sb who are very pious get this status even in this world and they cannot differentiate if they had sex or said the prayer.
Then Mirza Sb has explained in detail that when you enter sperms into the internal genitals of a woman it gives you great delight. Then you he also explains when you remember God you start crying and your tears jump out of the eyes (a few feet may be) just like sperms jump out during ejaculation.”
Notice the words, “Read it in complete and full context” this is what you guys always cry about and thus I pushed you to do the same and read in full context.
Then you again asked on Sep 17, 12:48 am:
“Kindly give me the page number from the book where allegedly Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi has written exactly what you are translating as his words.”
I replied you on Sep 17, 7:56 am:
“It already gives you the page, i.e., 192. You are welcome to read it a few pages back and a few pages forward to determine the exact context and enlighten us all if you Ahmadi believe love of Allah similar to entering sperms into internal genital of your wife and actually get confused if you said prayer or had sex with your wife.
In any case ahmadibeliefs.com gives exact page references as well as actual scans from the mentioned books.”
You can notice, again I have told you to read a few pages back and a few pages forward from page 192 to understand my statements given in previous posts.
Then you read page 192 from Braheen Ahmadiyya Vol 5 and found out these are spiritual gems, however, you did not bother to read back and forward and arrogantly denied my statements. Now it is funny that you were able to read page 192 from Braheen Ahmadiyya Vol 5 but when you were asked to read page 197 you got Aina Kamalat-e-islam.
What can I do in this situation. Let me politely inform you that Aina Kamalat-e-Islam is item 13 and Braheen Ahmadiyya is item 79 of RK.
May Allah give all qadianis the ability to read books of Mirza Sb so that they can appreciate how filthy they are. For your convenience I repeat my questions again:
What exactly did I tell a lie?
Did Mirza Sb say that when you have sex with your wife or love Allah you cannot differentiate? YES or NO
Did Mirza Sb say that tears jump out of your eyes just like sperm jumps out during ejaculation? YES or NO
Did Mirza Sb say that entering sperms into genitals of a women is matter of great delight and is just like loving Allah? YES or NO
Read in full context and reply again.
“Newobserver,
Once again the answer to your questions is:
1. No 2. No 3. No
I read the writings of the Promised Messiah with pure, unprejudiced, honest and open heart. When I read his writings with in the context, I find nothing but pearls of wisdom. I showed you earlier how tactfully you ignored to pointout earlier that the passages were explaining the verses of the Holy Quran. You still seem to redicule and refuse to acknowledge openly that the way Promised Messiah (AS) has explained those verses from the Chapter Al-Momiminoon are unparallel.
Your three questions show your total lack of understanding of the passages or your total refusal to understand them. I however understand them and understand the philosophy behind those words. You seem to take everything from the writings of the Promsised Messiah on their face value and refuse to understand the wisdom behind them. So using your same mentality, let me ask you to answer me in yes/no to these questions regarding Quranic verses in the same way you have posed questions in regards to the writings of Promised Messiah (AS):
1. Did Allah say in the Holy Quran that He turned those who were cursed into apes and swine? YES/NO
2. Does Quran say Noah was 950 years old? YES/NO
3. Does Quran say your wives are your “tilth”? YES/NO
4. Does Quran say that man is created from clay? YES/NO
5. Does Quran say that we will have rivers of wine in heaven? YES/NO
I am sure now you will try to UNDERSTAND these verses (I hope, if you don’t interpret Quran like some of the illiterate Mullah) and you wouldn’t just take them on face value. To me all these verses make perfect sense because I am not dishonest when reading these verses.
If the answer to any of the above questions is yes, then you must redicule these verses of the Holy Quran in the same way you want to redicule the writings of the Promised Messiah (AS). You must refuse to UNDERSTAND the verses in the same way as you do when you read the writings of Promised Messiah (AS). Waiting for your rational and calm response.
Bilal
An other thing about Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
He encouraged his followers do donate money to help the British empire fighting the Boers in South Africa.
This was an exceptionally bloody war and it was the first known use of concentration camps in history. (Boer civilians were herded together in inhumane conditions to live in these camps)
Can we assume that this prophet of Allah was only doing as Allah commanded him when aiding this slaughter of people? Has any other prophet taken such a position?
Or can the more rational among us draw the conclusion that the only reason he done this was to win the favour of the ruling elite, which would in turn bestow favours upon himself and his followers?
@Haris Zuberi,
Why don’t you first respond to my post to you and sort that issue first rather than changing the topic and moving to a totally new one? If you have the courage and Taqwah then resolove that issue you raised earlier of Jesus’ ascension from the teachings of Holy Quran. So rather than copy pasting from anti-Ahmadiyya websites and following the enemies of Islam who use the same tactics against Islam, you better resolve the issue through the teachings of Quran; the ultimate Book of guidence for the seekers of truth (especially the Muslims)
Bilal
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a false prophet and both his and his son’s and indeed descendant’s characters are evident from the episodes that I have shown and that is only from what I know off. I dare say there are many such occurrences that I do not know of.
I will provide links to books such as Kalimat-ul-Fasal by Hadhrat Sahibzada Mirza Bashir Ahmad from the alislam website. Infact this book was brought before the Ahmadiyya Khalifa III in the Pakistan senate.
In this book this great “SAHIBZADA” showed the world the true face of the ahmadis when he gave HIS OWN INTERPRETATION of the KALIMA to include Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
At then end of this entire episode the Ahmadiyya Khalifa said that if the whole of Pakistan would convert to Ahmadiyya if the proceedings were made public.
SO Bilal, who is the enemy of Islam, I or the the SAHIBZADA of AHMADIYYAT WHO BELIEVED THAT THE KALIMA AUTOMATICALLY INCLUDED MIRZA GHULAM AHMAD.
Let the readers decide.
Extract from Kalimat-ul-Fasal by Hadhrat Sahibzada Mirza Bashir :
“The fool does not realise that ‘Muhammad is the messenger of Allah’ was put in the Kalima because he is the crowning head of the prophets and the Khatam-un-nabiyyin. By mentioning his name all other prophets are implicitly included. There is no need to mention the name of everyone separately. Admittedly, the coming of the Promised Messiah has created one difference, and that is that before his coming the significance of the words ‘Muhammad is the messenger of Allah’ included (besides the Holy Prophet) only the prophets before the Holy Prophet Muhammad, but after the coming of the Promised Messiah one more prophet was added to the significance of these words. … In other words, the same Kalima is still to be used for admission into Islam, the difference merely being that the coming of the Promised Messiah has added one more messenger to the significance of the words ‘Muhammad is the messenger of Allah’.”
@Haris Zuberi,
Once again, you are not coming back to the issue you raised yourself. Why is that? Why would you hesitate to discuss the issue of Jesus’ (AS) aparant ascension (that the non-Ahmadis believe in) from the teachings of Holy Quran. Don’t you consider this to be an ultimate source of guidence? I hope you will come to this issue.
Now in regards to the passages you keep on bringing, I don’t find anything difficult to understand. I will discuss that issue too with you I promise, but first resolve the issue of Jesus’ (AS) aparant ascension from the teachings of Quran. I hope I will get a positive and civilised response from you now.
As for the question of Jesus’s death, the only thing that muslims can be sure of is that he was not crucufied.
If it was such an important issue that Jesus had died in Kashmir/Jalandhar why did the prophet not mention the issue? When the prophet pbuh said “Today I have perfected your religion” he might have added “Apart from the death of Jesus which you’ll spend the next 1300 years in complete confusion about”.
As I personally see it, Mirza just invented the issue so that he could have a cause or a claim, and also he was sick of being just another saint and thought he was worthy of Prophethood. When ever you talk to Ahmadis, ( or atleast the ones that I have talked to) they like to make out that main stream muslims are just sitting on their hands waiting for Jesus to descend.
Shia’s don’t believe in the Messiah Jesus, yet they are still considered to be Muslims.
Please Bilal I would love to hear your justification for books such as Kalimat-ul-Fasal by Hadhrat Sahibzada Mirza Bashir Ahmad and The Truth About The Split by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad.
When you are done with those I have plenty more.
@Haris Zuberi,
1. I am not clear what your belief is in regards to Jesus (AS)? Is he dead or alive? I need a clear answer in this regard.
2. As I said earlier in my post to you that it is NOT important to know where he died, the important issue is if he is dead or alive. We infer from the teachings of Quran, hadith, past scriptures and the historical records available that the most probable route he took was towards Eastwards. You had yourself mentioned earlier a few reasons why we consider Kashmir as his last abode on this earth. After all there were around 124000 prophets sent to the world before the arrival of Holy Prophet (PBUH). Do you know the whereabout of all the past prophets of God?
3. If someone rejects a true prophet of God as you are claiming regarding Shias that they reject Jesus (AS), what is the verdict of Quran regarding such people? Are they considered to be Muslims or Kafir according to Quran?
I need clear and civilised answers from you.
Surah Nisa Ch 4,verses 157-158
157. That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
The above mentioned verses are self explanatory and enough for any muslim to prove that Allah Almighty raised Jesus(A.s)up alive.
According to Hadith, he is on the second heaven. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam=Peace be upon him) mentioned, “During the Meraj (Ascension), I met Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) on the second heaven. I found him of medium stature, reddish white. His body was so clean and clear, that it appeared as though he had just performed ghusal (ablution, cleansing of the entire body) and come.” In another Hadith, Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) mentioned to the Jews that, ” Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) is not dead, he will most surely return to you before Qiyamat (the Day of Judgement).”
Furthermore if you read the bible
Jesus (A.S.) also says,
… and a little while and you shall not see me; and again a little while, you shall see me because I go to the Father.
(Bible, John 16:16)
so i guess that should settle any confusions relating to Hazrat Isa(A.s).and whosoever still has any doubts kindly read the first verse again.Peace.
@Ahsan,
Thank you for quoting this verse of the Holy Quran and the hadith. The verse which you have quoted from Holy Quran declaring the raising of Jesus (AS) towards Allah Almighty does settle the issue, but not in the favour of your interpretation of the Holy Quran but ours’. There are a number of reasons why.
1. The verse says “Allah raised (Rafa’a) him (Jesus) to Himself”. Quran in other places confirms that the presence of Allah is everywhere eg. “Allahu Noorussamawate wal ardh” (God is the Light of heavens and the earth). So if you want to interpret the meaning of “Rafa’a” here as physical ascension of Jesus (AS) towards God (ie. to another point), then that would imply that God was not present where Jesus (AS) was then. He had to be physically moved from that place to some other place to be close to Allah. Would you agree with that interpretation of this verse?
2. The same expression (Rafa’a) has been used for another true prophet of God Hadhrat Idrees (AS) in the Holy Quran in the following words:
[19:57] And relate the story of Idrees as mentioned in the Book. He was a truthful man and a Prophet.
[19:58] And We raised/exalted (Rafa’a root) him to a lofty station.
Would you then imply from this verse that Hadhrat Idrees (AS) was also raised to heaven physically?
Now I will try to explain what truly the word “rafa’a” means when used in relation to God with man. To understand the following verse of Holy Quran is the best source of guidence:
And if We had pleased, We would certainly have EXALTED/RAISED him (man) (le rafa’nahu) thereby; but he clung to the earth and followed his low desire, so his parable is as the parable of the dog; if you attack him he lolls out his tongue; and if you leave him alone he lolls out his tongue; this is the parable of the people who reject Our communications; therefore relate the narrative that they may reflect.” (7:176/177)
So according to the above verse, Allah Almighty wanted to RAISE the man because of His pleasure, but man on the other hand stooped down and clung to earth and FOLLOWED HIS LOW DESIRES. So the raising is only in ranks and not in the physical body of the person.
Similarly in the case of Jesus (AS), according to Quran, the crime of Jews is twofold.
1. They claimed that God forbid Jesus’ birth was accursed.
2. They also claimed that his death was accursed death because according to them they had either killed him on the cross or killed him otherwise.
On both occusions Allah rejects the claim of the Jews. In regards to the latter, Allah Almighty makes it clear that they wanted Jesus to die an accursed death, but God on the other hand raised him (in status) towards Himself and it were the enemies of Jesus who were actually cursed.
Now in regards to the hadith you have mentioned regarding Jesus’ presence in the second heaven during Miraj of Holy Prophet (PBUH), but forgot to mention that in the same hadith of Bukhari, Yahya (AS) is also mentioned to be in the same second heaven with Jesus (AS). The Holy Prophet saw both of them together in the second heaven during Miraj. If Jesus (AS) is alive then Yahya (AS) should also be alive.
I hope you will acknowledge the understanding of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community as the correct one insha Allah.
Wassalam,
Bilal
Jesus (PBUH), alive or dead, would be delighted at what another fellow ‘prophet’ said about him:
“The family of Jesus was perfectly holy and immaculate. Jesus’ three paternal and maternal grandmothers were fornicators and prostitutes, from whose blood the body of Jesus came into existence. May be it was a condition for divinity. His inclination for prostitutes and interaction with them might also be due to this ancestral relationship.” (Anjam-e-Atham 291)
My dear Qadiani brothers, there is really no need to delve into the issue of whether Jesus (PBUH)is alive or dead, as it was never mentioned a part of Faith (Imaan) by our Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). So the faith of any Muslim is considered complete in every respect no matter what beliefs he/she has about the death/ascension of Jesus (PBUH).
However, we can take a look at the 'beautiful' language used by Mirza Qadiani for Jesus (PBUH) in one of his books:
“The family of Jesus was perfectly holy and immaculate. Jesus’ three paternal and maternal grandmothers were fornicators and prostitutes, from whose blood the body of Jesus came into existence. May be it was a condition for divinity. His inclination for prostitutes and interaction with them might also be due to this ancestral relationship.” (Anjam-e-Atham 291)
Is this the kind of language a 'prophet' uses for another Prophet? Mr. Bilal, you said that 'newobserver' is taking the quotes out of context. You have completely missed the point brother. The objection is more on the language, as context can be different for you and me, but the language can’t be, unless you choose to take the stance that these books have not been written by Mirza Qadiani. Can you find any such filthy language in the Quran or Hadith anywhere like "love of Allah is like having sex”. Come on dear, open your eyes and realize the truth, for its never too late to embrace the truth.
Karachi streets and walls are litter with
Gustakh e Sahaba(RA) Amir Liaquat Wajib ul Qatal Hay
Amir Liaquat is saving himself from Sipa e Sahaba and Lashkar e Jhangvi after his blasphemous remarks about Shabas(RA).
Now by playing this game against Qadyanis he might trying to save his skin but God knows what will happen to him
@A Mighty Heart,
That is a cop out. Don’t try to change the topic. If you have the courage to label Ahmadi Muslims as non-Muslims and Promised Messiah (AS) as an imposter then you should have the courage to defend your understanding of Holy Quran through Holy Quran. Rather than copying things from anti-Ahmadiyya websites and then pasting them here, I would rather advise you to use your own mind sometimes too and do your own research (I hope you are doing this out of ignorance and not deliberately even after knowing the truth).
So come on and answer my post in regards to Jesus’ aparant ascension and the proof in the Holy Quran that goes against all such non-sensical notions. You have also chosen not to respond my post that was addressed to you too. So stop changing the topic by pasting things from anti-Ahmadiyya websites and be a man enough to defend your own interpretation of Holy Quran.
Just for the sake of genuine seekers of truth, the passage you have quoted again from anti-Ahmadiyya website is once again a LIE and thing taken totally out of context very cunningly and deliberately to decieve those who want to know the truth. This link should answer this allegation:
http://www.alislam.org/books/truth/gospels.html
So Mighty Heart, be brave enough to defend what you consider to be the truth, and if you can’t do that then atleast stop labelling others as deviants. Start acting like a Muslim!!!
Bilal